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  1. #1
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    The Moment is in the shop so...

    I rode an Intense 5.5 today. All you Moment riders dont know how good you got it. There was a technical climb today, with lots of rocky step ups and some loose gravel. The rear wheel lost traction many times when I was laying down the leg power to clear a step up.
    The rear suspension stiffened up. I guess I got used to the Moment doing all the dirty work for me, so I forgot some riding body language
    But the Moment will return soon, upgraded & improved
    More about that, later... (postin' without picture aint good enough, is it ? )

  2. #2
    Brass Nipples!
    Reputation: Bob the Wheelbuilder's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=PizzaMan]I rode an Intense 5.5 today. All you Moment riders dont know how good you got it. There was a technical climb today, with lots of rocky step ups and some loose gravel. The rear wheel lost traction many times when I was laying down the leg power to clear a step up.
    The rear suspension stiffened up. I guess I got used to the Moment doing all the dirty work for me, so I forgot some riding body language QUOTE]

    I agree. Too many people evaluate suspension only for plushness going downhill, but techy climbing with a Moment is hugely improved compared with VPP designs I've ridden. Especially as I start to get tired, I can just spin over things that I'd need to try to spurt to, then coast over with a lesser bike.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  3. #3
    Time is not a road.
    Reputation: chad1433's Avatar
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    So, Bob, did you get a chance to ride the new TNT stuff at Interbike? How does that suspension rate?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    So, Bob, did you get a chance to ride the new TNT stuff at Interbike? How does that suspension rate?
    I rode a 5 spot with the TNT rear. It was set up so different than my Moment it was hard to compare directly. It had the new inertia valve 130 mm fork from Fox. It was very light and I noticed no bob at all when pedaling. It seemed to climb well, but I didn't find any climbs I'd consider ideal for testing. The geometry and handling were very good.

    The shock was a DHX air, and the ride seemed very firm if not harsh compared to my Moment, but I didn't have time to fiddle with all the settings. I did notice the rear end loosing traction on a gravel patch once when braking, but so many things were diffrerent, including the shock setup and the fact that I ride with my brakes moto style (the demo was standard US style: right brake rear) that it made a detailed comparison pretty much impossible.

    Overall I thought it was a very good bike, but I can't confidently say it was the equal of the design it is replacing. I can't say it isn't either, though. To completely compare the two would really require some back to back riding on identical bikes or even a switch of rear ends on the same bike. I know there are some Homers that are going to do that and report their findings on the Turner board. It will be interesting to hear what they think.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  5. #5
    Rolling
    Reputation: lidarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    To completely compare the two would really require some back to back riding on identical bikes or even a switch of rear ends on the same bike..
    I suppose is that is the case, then any difference doesn't matter does it?

  6. #6
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
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    My kiwi opinion, I think I really see the advantages of the ID / MOMENT suspension when I am riding up technical hills, the traction just amazes me on each ride. You are all correct, it is not just going downhill. I climb hills that other bikes dont, this is not fitness related I dont feel. Ont he weekend, I was out with 5 others, climbing mean tech hills, only myself and Trailadvent could climb the really mean hills, this was down to traction. My cousin was on a brand new 06 Spec Enduro elite, top of the line machine, nice bike, but could not climb like the Ellsworth, I am not saying this is a fair comparison or statistical, but it was a seen thing for me, and I have seen this on many rides.

    BTW, when is a good time to visit your area for riding? I do loads of work in the US of A, wanting to bring my scooter and try out this terrain you all show me.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    I suppose is that is the case, then any difference doesn't matter does it?
    That's not what I'm saying. I felt the bike was not nearly as nice overall as my Moment, but much of that could have been setup. The 5 spot was very nice, my Moment is still, in my opinion, the best I've ever ridden. The on dirt demo bike I liked best was the Titus Supermoto, but I'd take my own Moment over that, too. I didn't try the 6 pack. The gang was out for a long ride on the Turners when I got there so I did a short loop on the 5 spot while I waited for them.

    Without a few rides to optimize the settings for me, I doubt even a bike I'd eventually rate as superior would come across as a better bike right off the bat. What I'm saying is the setup really has to be very similar in order to compare the bikes with any degree of certainty. I've ridden other 5 spots that felt incredibly plush. This bike didn't feel plush at all, but I think it could be set up so that it would. Once the plush factor was dialed in, would the pedaling still be very good? I don't know.

    I'm still very interested in how people compare the before and after verisions of the Turner bikes, but few have done it in a way that is meaningful. I mean there's a guy who went from a hardtail to a RF6 and he loves it, but what's his frame of reference?
    Last edited by Bob the Wheelbuilder; 10-27-2005 at 08:02 AM.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    BTW, when is a good time to visit your area for riding? I do loads of work in the US of A, wanting to bring my scooter and try out this terrain you all show me.
    St. George is best during our fall and spring. Summer is very hot and winter is chilly at times. Sometimes there is snow on Gooseberry and Little Creek (our best 2 local rides) in the winter, but usually there isn't. If I had to pick a best time, it would probably be September and October. The mountains aren't too far away, so anytime you were in the area, we could find something to ride without a problem.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  9. #9
    trail fairy
    Reputation: trailadvent's Avatar
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    What I'm saying is the setup really has to be very similar in order to compare the bikes with any degree of certainty.
    Finally some sense when trying to make a comparison..

    Well said Bob couldn't agree more..
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  10. #10
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    No no no! Bike comparisons are NOT meant to be factual or informative. They're meant to be inflammatory and emotional. What are you thinking?

    Grant

  11. #11
    The Ancient One
    Reputation: Steve from JH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    My kiwi opinion, I think I really see the advantages of the ID / MOMENT suspension when I am riding up technical hills, the traction just amazes me on each ride. You are all correct, it is not just going downhill. I climb hills that other bikes dont, this is not fitness related I dont feel. Ont he weekend, I was out with 5 others, climbing mean tech hills, only myself and Trailadvent could climb the really mean hills, this was down to traction. My cousin was on a brand new 06 Spec Enduro elite, top of the line machine, nice bike, but could not climb like the Ellsworth, I am not saying this is a fair comparison or statistical, but it was a seen thing for me, and I have seen this on many rides.
    I think you've hit the nail on the head about traction and climbing. My Id climbs better than anything else I've tried. And I climb things that younger, fitter looking guys are pushing their bikes up.

  12. #12
    MomentUs
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    Yup, didn't believe it until I changed bikes

    Was always told by a friend that I would notice the difference in traction on an Ellsworth Moment when compared to my Heckler. Thought, yeah, whatever. I changed bikes due to wanting more complaint braking.

    What I have found is that the traction (and lack of pedal feedback, which I didn't understand until riding the Moment) is the biggest difference. I can ride bigger gears without breaking traction on the slower uphill stuff. That's impressive since I ride mainly in a sand based forest. I couldn't be happier with my new bike.

  13. #13
    853+29+1x24=Fun
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    hehe reading these posts and waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'd say this forum is starting to turn for the better but I'm looking over my shoulder for the boogey man.
    Last edited by kev0153; 10-27-2005 at 01:24 PM.

  14. #14
    Time is not a road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev0153
    hehe reading these posts and waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'd say this forum is starting to turn for the better but again and I'm looking over my shoulder for the boogey man.
    I know how you feel!

  15. #15
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    pizzaman

    5.5 owner, I agree about the moment being miles better on tech'loose uphills...

    Is there anything you found the 5.5 to be better at than the moment?

    Horses for courses I know but still would like to hear what you think of the 5.5.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzanine
    5.5 owner, I agree about the moment being miles better on tech'loose uphills...

    Is there anything you found the 5.5 to be better at than the moment?

    Horses for courses I know but still would like to hear what you think of the 5.5.

    I'm getting a lot of time on the 5.5 now days, just got back from another ride with it.
    The 5.5 pedals better than the Moment. It feels lighter than it actually is (I got exactly the same spec as on the Moment), and I'm faster riding it.
    It's also easier to drop / jump. I think that is because it has a shorter top tube.
    On technical descents the 5.5 simply irons out everything under it's wheels. It seems so "swallow" rocks a little better than the Moment. The explenation to this via. Intense is because of the VPP path, the rear wheel goes backwards first when hitting something, and not upwards like a 4 bar. This causes the bike not to loose momentum.
    I did not feel any stiffening of the rear suspension while braking, like some people with 5.5's mention.
    Overall, the bike's performance is nice, except for the traction thing while climbing on the granny gear. We have pretty loose soil these days (end of the summer), and some nasty rocky step-ups. On these technical climbes, I find myself walking. The rear wheel spins & looses traction every time I stand up on the pedals on those little steep climbes to give full leg power. Another thing is that the front end lifts easily on climbes (90 mm stem on both bikes, one small spacer below the stem) and causes the front wheel to wander around.
    Another thing that bugged me, is the 5.5's low BB. I keep hitting rocks with the pedals. Seems like the Moment has a high BB, clears anything, but still feels very stable unlike the Id was.
    Bottom line, both are really good bikes, If I had to pick one it would be the Moment, because of the much better technical climbing ability, higher BB & better pedal clearance.

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