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Thread: Moment?

  1. #1
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    Moment?

    Has there been any changes from the 05 model to the 06? I've only recently started looking into the Moment as a possible trail bike so I don't know a whole lot about it. I've read the reviews and magazine articles and they all praise the bike so it must be what it's cracked up to be. I am also curious about various builds and their weights, if any would care to share.

    I currently ride a VPP bike and was wondering how the ICT compares in terms of ride characteristics. I've looked over the Ellsworth website but don't trust a word of what they have written. I'd much rather hear from some owners with some first had experience and who aren't trying to sell me anything.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Leprechaun; 12-12-2005 at 09:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Time is not a road.
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    Check out the bike databases for builds. The changes include asymetrical chainstays and a new finish, which all the Ellsworth bikes will get.

    I'm on a '05 now with only a few rides in, it's very stable, exhibits minimal bob (if any) and is extremely versatile. If you like to swap out shocks and forks a lot, like many others do, it's Ellsworth's best platform for experimenting (though the Chaos and Rogue are also contenders).

    I don't have any experience on VPP bikes. I think they're known to exhibit some "squat" when climbing and a bit of stiffening when braking. I don't notice either of these qualities on the Moment. Power is transferred straight to the wheel when climbing and braking is active and controlled.

    Hope the info helps. I'll try to bump up the Moment database so it's at the top.

  3. #3
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    Sounds good

    Hey, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it. The bike itself sounds like a winner. My only cause for concern now is the prevading issue of Ellsworth's customer service and "frame durability" that the Turner-haters are always bringing up. Is there any validity to these accusations from your point of view? Or are they just full of crap? I have a hard time reading some of the Turner posts because they are so blatantly biased and close minded. Then again it almost makes you wonder if there is a method to their madness.

  4. #4
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    I'll try to break it down for you, since I was around when this was so hottly "debated" on these boards, but I didn't participate much.

    Keep in mind that thousands of bikes have been sold. Some broke. All brands have breakage. No one is immune. I guess it's how some of those breakages were handled under the Lifetime Warranty that caused the dissention. That Warranty no longer exists, BTW.

    Two bikes particularly surround the controversy: The Truth and the Id. Also, there was a specific model year Truth that caused the most grief. In 2003(?) there was a fundamental redesign of the frame and the rockers of the Truth. Some older bikes broke at the seat tube presumably because of leverage issues which is what prompted the redesign. However, when it came to a warranty replacement on the new bikes, a new front triangle and new rockers, as well as new shock (length changed) was required. Seat stays and chainstays were ok. Ellsworth was charging for the new rockers and shock and warrantying the frame (is that correct? Some others can verify). Understandably, people were upset after having already paid $2000 for the original frame. This was maybe a bad decision. I think what made things worse was that some people were handled differently. So the non-uniformity of the events created dissention as well. Right or wrong, good or bad, I think there were some mitigating factors that we weren't privy to, such as riders intentionally riding bikes for things they really weren't designed to withstand simply because they had a warranty and could be replaced if broke. At least that's what TE claimed in his one and only post.

    Furthermore, a lot of Id chainstays were cracking over time. This phenomenon is not inherent to only Ellsworth. I think it's a problem of the four-bar Horst design. Those issues seemed to be resolved ok, but there may have been some supply issues, I'm not sure. One member recently cracked a chainstay and got a '06 rear with the asymetrical stays to mount on his Id (Lidarman). He also broke a Truth.

    I've heard of people cracking Jokers, but not in a long time. Again, this bike gets a lot of abuse as a freerider/DH bike.

    So, in the course of trying to build light weight bikes, I think some compromises were made in strength and they came to roost. And it all seemed to happen at the same time. So that aggravated the issue so that it looked more monumental than it was, in my opinion. Plus, people love drama.

    As far as CS goes, there were mistakes made. But again, that seems to be taken care of, too. A decision was made a while back to only deal directly with Ellsworth dealers and some saw that as "standoffish" so that people couldn't call them directly. But I think many still do and have expressed satisfaction with those experiences. There's a thread regarding "shot peening" here, read that. It looks to me like Ellsworth took care of that customer pretty well. Plus, manufacturing is now in house, where QA can be more closely monitored. This seems like a positive step to me. Shot peening has gone away in the meantime.

    In essence, things seem to have gotten back on track. Many disgruntled Ellsworth owners now own Turners. Many blame TE for the design change at Turner, right or wrong. There will always be rivalries and this one goes way back. For every one unhappy customer, there are ten that are happy. And they never report their good experiences.

    Hopefully that helps, because I'm sure many are going to chime in so we can talk about it over and over again! Yippeee!

  5. #5
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    Good summary chad.

    This topic has been discussed over and over and it does get old after a while.

    The Truth has been good since 2004 and there aren't many breakages, if any, that I recall reported here.

    The Moment has been doing great since introduction and I don't think any breakage has been reported here so far.

    I think many here, including myself, have had very positive experiences with Ellworth customer service.

  6. #6
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    I can't remember reading about any frame failures on 2004 and newer Ellsworth bikes. Turner has had (I'd guess) a dozen or so Flux and 5 Spot front triangle failures reported on mtbr in that time period. I'm sure it is a small fraction of Turners that break, but the numbers are recently in Ellsworth's favor. It is a little galling that the fragile bike reputation hasn't changed in some people's minds.

    One other PR disaster was when the product manager chided rroeder about riding his Truth on the Porcupine Rim in Moab after it broke. His handling of the situation was very poor (That guy isn't working there any more). I think rroeder was a loyal Ellsworth fan before that, but I understand his not wanting to be dealt with that way any more. The CS guys at E. really seem to have gotten their act together lately, though. The 2 year warranty makes more sense for a product that can't rationally be expected to last a lifetime.

    I had a VPP bike (a Blur) for a year and a half. I didn't like the loss of suspension activity when climbing. Sure, the rear end stiffening made the bike climb great on smooth stuff, but it wouldn't climb technical stuff like the Turners I've owned or my Moment. I've felt all the VPP bikes as well as the DW link and Maestro bikes I've ridden have had low bottom brackets, too. I don't know if the BB drops more as the suspension cycles or if they're just built too low, but that is a fatal flaw for my local riding.

    I have a 2005 Moment and it's a fantastic bike.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  7. #7
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    Sounds great

    Hey, thanks for the replies. It sounds like things have changed for the better. I own a "short" travel vp free which is a fantastic bike and weighs in at 36.5 lbs. I love riding it but it makes my local trails feel too easy. By that I mean there really isn't much to justify 7.5" of travel. Now, I'm not saying that the Moment would be any different, but I'd like to get something with less travel, steeper geometry, and liter more snappy feel. Will the Moment be the answer I'm looking for in your opinion?

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