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  1. #1
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    joining the 'Moment' club soon

    It feels like christmas... my LBS just notified me that my '06 medium moment has left the Ellsworth factory and is on its way here. OOOooooooooo I'm giddy with excitement. :-D
    Now if only we can do something about all this snow in manitoba things will be even better

  2. #2
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    That'll be the first 2006 Moment on this board! Congrats! There are a lot of interested parties with questions for you. I am especially interested in the geometry since there has been a lot of rumors and confusion on what the numbers are.

    Pictures the first day you get the frame is a must!

    Snow or no snow, go out there and get us a ride report

  3. #3
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by ahimanic
    That'll be the first 2006 Moment on this board! Congrats! There are a lot of interested parties with questions for you. I am especially interested in the geometry since there has been a lot of rumors and confusion on what the numbers are.

    Pictures the first day you get the frame is a must!

    Snow or no snow, go out there and get us a ride report
    its just the frame coming in. Swapping parts from older bike and bought a new Z1 Light ETA, but still waiting on wheels so could still be a bit before I can ride.

    I brought up the geo questions to my Ellsworth contact a few weeks back and this is what I got in response.

    "Changes for this year are the async stays and a beefed up seat tube pivot
    mount. With the asnyc chain stays the geometry is slightly different, the
    bottom bracket drops from 13.8 to 13.5 and the seat tube and head tube
    angles change by 1 degree each. You will not feel the geometry difference at
    all."

    As soon as my bike is built I'll take it out for a rip and see what it feels like. Not a lot to ride in Winnipeg this time of year though ;-)

    Another fellow I know is receiving his Rogue so I'll poke him for some feedback too.

    I'll of course post pics of everything as it shows up ;-)

  4. #4
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    That's the thing, I've heard different from Ellsworth on the geometry. Your version seems to match the specs in the catalog. My conclusion was the final geometry was probably still being hashed out and won't know until it comes out.

    Slacker by one-degree is a lot! Why wouldn't there be a difference felt?

    Z1 on the Moment I haven't seen often, very interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by ramazz
    I brought up the geo questions to my Ellsworth contact a few weeks back and this is what I got in response.

    "Changes for this year are the async stays and a beefed up seat tube pivot
    mount. With the asnyc chain stays the geometry is slightly different, the
    bottom bracket drops from 13.8 to 13.5 and the seat tube and head tube
    angles change by 1 degree each. You will not feel the geometry difference at
    all."

  5. #5
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    Wow, I have been busy and havent been reading the board as much lately. This post caught my attention. Just to set things straight, The 06 Moment has been pushed back for release until later this summer. Right now our new production facility is at full capacity making Epiphanies, Rogues and the 06 Truths. The Moment had the least amount of changes for 06 and we have a decent inventory of 05 models. It was our most popular frame for 2005 and is still a great bike. The combination of all of these factors lead us to the decision that we would delay putting the 06 Moment into production. All Ellsworth dealers were informed and told that if they wanted Moments now, they would be the current model. I dont know who your dealer is but if you have a Moment on the way it is the current model that we all know and love. I hope this clears things up


    I would be interested in everyones feedback on the model year topic


    Our goal is to get away from the model year designations and introduce new frames and updates throughout the calender year. The new Moment will be first frame launched under that program.
    What are your thoughts?




    Paul

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahimanic
    That's the thing, I've heard different from Ellsworth on the geometry. Your version seems to match the specs in the catalog. My conclusion was the final geometry was probably still being hashed out and won't know until it comes out.

    Slacker by one-degree is a lot! Why wouldn't there be a difference felt?

    Z1 on the Moment I haven't seen often, very interesting.
    You don't think the Z1 will be a good match? reasons/thoughts?

    I won't respond to Paul's post until I talk to my LSB in the morning...

  7. #7
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    Bike model year

    I for one don't care about "model year" designations, but SOME kind of way to differentiate between build levels is important. Years may be arbitrary, but they are convenient. It's okay to leave a design unchanged through a model year, if it works.

    To the OP: aside from your LBS possibly being less than forthright with you, I wouldn't stress too hard about the "build year" on your Moment. It's a great bike. And if you get one that's been shot-peened (i.e. an '05), you're stoked.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMountainHop
    I for one don't care about "model year" designations, but SOME kind of way to differentiate between build levels is important. Years may be arbitrary, but they are convenient. It's okay to leave a design unchanged through a model year, if it works.

    To the OP: aside from your LBS possibly being less than forthright with you, I wouldn't stress too hard about the "build year" on your Moment. It's a great bike. And if you get one that's been shot-peened (i.e. an '05), you're stoked.
    My issue is I'm a bigger guy coming in currently around 220-230 pounds so the extra strength of the async stays and new pivot assembly are what I was sold on. Last time I spoke to them they were under the impression we were getting 06 models and I know they wouldn't lie to me cause they know how anal I am with research. I'm pretty sure they will be just as surprised/angry as me if we get 05's.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramazz
    My issue is I'm a bigger guy coming in currently around 220-230 pounds so the extra strength of the async stays and new pivot assembly are what I was sold on. Last time I spoke to them they were under the impression we were getting 06 models and I know they wouldn't lie to me cause they know how anal I am with research. I'm pretty sure they will be just as surprised/angry as me if we get 05's.
    Paul's an Ellsworth employee, so his info should be accurate.

    I hope you have a satisfactory solution. The current design is fantastic, but I know how it is to know exactly what you want. The Id stays broke with some frequency, but I can't recall anyone on these boards describing any part of any Moment breaking.

    Good Luck and let us know how things work out.
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  10. #10
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    I think it's a good idea. Why do you always have to change things or just make them different? Too much of society is hell bent on "new and improved". What if you made it right the first time?

    If you do come up with a change outside of the traditional times (i.e., Interbike, Sea Otter) you get more publicity because it's beyond the mainstream. But don't just change things because you think the market demands "new". I bet it's a lot of stress to come up with something different every 8-12 months anyway.

  11. #11
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    It's great to bring new and improved to a frame through out the year but it should definitely be backward compatible.

    The downside of it is that it creates confusion amongst consumers and people will ask a lot of questions on what they're getting. It is very easy to tell what you're getting when you have a significant cosmetic change such as between 05 and 06, but most of the years you will not get that distinction.

    Can I suggest one future change? How about convertible gear cables stops that can run either exposed cables or full-length housing? Check out the Nomad.

  12. #12
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    Ramazz, based on what Paul is saying, you need to talk to your shop pronto! There should be no mistaken identity between 05 and 06. The 06 still has the same frame design and shape but the finish is smooth anodized rather than the textured shot peened finish you'll see on 05 and earlier frames. I believe Competitive Cycle has some pictures of the new Moment online and you can see plenty of pictures of the old Moment in the forum's database.

    The asymmetrical stay is backward compatible so it is possible to have the new asymmetrical stay assembled with the 05 front triangle if Ells ran out of the old stays. You won't have the new rocker pivot on the old frame though.

    Don't get me wrong, you should be very happy with either model (05 model has been very successful) but as a consumer we need to know what we're getting and get what we had intended. Also, you should be able to get a better price on the 05 frame. Ells had a program earlier where you can get a free Float fork with the 05 frame or a Fox 36 at a significant discount.

    BTW, I'm not saying the Z1 would not be good on the Moment. I just haven't seen it on the Moment database yet.

  13. #13
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    Cool-blue Rhythm my bike not coming.. misunderstood. no worries

    I think its a cool idea to release updates to the frame wihout making people wait for new model years, just needs to be a way for us to diffirentiate between them somehow. You gonna do version #s or something? Paul, you should start a new thread specifically concerning this line of questionsing with a poll or something so we can kill the proof of my temporary insanity.

    as for my Moment, seems there was some confusion and assumptions on my part as my bike is not on its way so I will contiue to wait. Can't do any actual riding for a few months yet so waiting isn't killing me at this point. Having the bike come in now would just end up taking room in my living room as some form of coffee table ;-)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahimanic
    Ramazz, based on what Paul is saying, you need to talk to your shop pronto! There should be no mistaken identity between 05 and 06. The 06 still has the same frame design and shape but the finish is smooth anodized rather than the textured shot peened finish you'll see on 05 and earlier frames. I believe Competitive Cycle has some pictures of the new Moment online and you can see plenty of pictures of the old Moment in the forum's database.

    The asymmetrical stay is backward compatible so it is possible to have the new asymmetrical stay assembled with the 05 front triangle if Ells ran out of the old stays. You won't have the new rocker pivot on the old frame though.

    Don't get me wrong, you should be very happy with either model (05 model has been very successful) but as a consumer we need to know what we're getting and get what we had intended. Also, you should be able to get a better price on the 05 frame. Ells had a program earlier where you can get a free Float fork with the 05 frame or a Fox 36 at a significant discount.

    BTW, I'm not saying the Z1 would not be good on the Moment. I just haven't seen it on the Moment database yet.
    As I mentioned above, my bike isn't coming in yet so I'm not worried since I can't ride for a few months unless I wanted to damage it in the snow and ice.

    Guess since I'll prolly be the first in the moment DB with a Z1 then I'll be obligated to provide some feedback once I'm all up and riding.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramazz
    Guess since I'll prolly be the first in the moment DB with a Z1 then I'll be obligated to provide some feedback once I'm all up and riding.
    You most certainly do!!!

    That's one thing this forum seems to lack --- the in-depth reviews posted by the Turner board.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramazz
    Having the bike come in now would just end up taking room in my living room as some form of coffee table ;-)
    I find they make much better underwear drying racks myself.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    I find they make much better underwear drying racks myself.

    or maybe I can mount it on in front of my bay window and hang plants off it when it does come in. haha

    Do hope the 06's are released in time for riding season though.

  18. #18
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    Why not just get an '05? You could be riding by spring! If you feel that asymmetrical chain stays are that important, I'm sure you could back fit them to your '05.

    Unless, of course you want the new annodizing scheme or just HAVE to have the latest and greatest...

  19. #19
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    Could be good, could be weird

    Quote Originally Posted by pecusick

    I would be interested in everyones feedback on the model year topic


    Our goal is to get away from the model year designations and introduce new frames and updates throughout the calender year. The new Moment will be first frame launched under that program.
    What are your thoughts?

    Paul

    Software companies do it all the time, but it is an interesting model to apply to selling bikes. I think the biggest problem is going to be marketing. To be brutally honest, Ellsworth is pretty bad at getting their information out. It often seems that things are extremely rushed to be ready by Interbike, and then there are typos in the catalogue, the data isn't correct, the photos aren't current, and employees seem to be tossing out varying information that isn't really consistent, so the rumors start flying. Then it comes back to you guys (the Ellsworth folks) in the form of having to put out fires and get the right information out once it's finally settled. But don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard Ellsworth fan through and through, and I know its hard to operate in this industry, especially with the recent boom and the speed required of new products. Its just one thing that I feel Ellsworth could do better. Soooooo, my point is that this new sales model could potentially cause more havoc if models are being released just kind of whenever. However, that's kind of how its working already, so I guess its just a matter of making sure the public's information is correct and delivered appropiately.

    My next concern is timing. I live in the upper midwest, so we have a very distinct riding season. If I'm buying a new bike (which I just did and will report on in a Moment, ha ha, pun) I would much rather have it ready in the spring for a full season of riding as opposed to having to deal with switching frames or trying to get a whole bike together mid-season and potentially missing out on some riding days.

    I think a good example of what I'm talking about (with the misinformation thing) comes with my purchase of a new Moment. My LBS ordered it on Tuesday, so now I am anxiously awaiting its arrival. But it all started at Interbike where I rode the Moment and Rogue to compare them head to head. I was extremely excited to see the Rogue because I've always wanted to see the Dare suspension on a bike meant more for trails than just downhills, kind of like the old Dare and exactly like the Moment, but I prefer the Dare suspension design. Anyway, the updates to the '06 Moment were also very cool, and it made for a tough decision. But after the website was finally updated and I saw the stats on the Rogue for the 7" setting, I was sold. So I had my LBS start the calling to see when and how I could get it. And then the bad news started rolling in. Turns out the large frame isn't really an 18, its a 17, a problem for me since I'm already pushing it at 6'3". The dropouts aren't QR compatible like the catalogue says, just 20mm with reducers down to 12mm. And I love air suspension, but the DHX Air doesn't actually fit in the Rogue even after I discussed how sweet a Rogue would be with a DHX air at Interbike with an Ellsworth employee. So all things considered, the Rogue was still too Dare-like for me. Not that I'm dissapointed, the Moment is a great bike and I'm super stoked to ride it. I'm still just waiting to have my dream bike, of basically a 7" Rogue I can set up and ride like a Moment. I'm sure I'm the only fool around that wants one, but I love the Dare suspension. Its my favorite design of all time and it felt amazing getting to ride it in Vegas this fall.

    Then came the misinformation with the Moments. They were published as an '06 model, and I really wanted to wait for the new changes, the shaped tubing and the monocoque/asemetrical chainstays (which the Ellsworth engineer seem quite proud of). I was told they were going to be ready in March. But then we found out, and like was posted earlier in this thread, that they weren't going to be updated until next year, just the paint change with the blue, which would be ready in March. I preferred the old blue to the new blue anyway, so it worked out quite well for me in that sense. But the whole purchasing process required lots of phone calls and getting information straightened out before I could make sure I was buying the bike I really wanted. And I'm sure its a hassel on your end, having to deal with people calling to get new info and misinformed posts showing up on here, yada yada yada. But I'm extremely excited to get my new bike. I'm upgrading from my '02 Joker, and I'll be supporting Ellsworth for a long time.

    I appologize for the length of this post Paul, but you did ask for feedback. Just wanted to make sure I said everything I wanted. Thanks for asking us!

    Nelson

  20. #20
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    Very concise...you bring up some good points, too. Instead of introducing a product that's not ready, they could take the time to get the bike tested and readied before it was introduced. Sorta like the Nomad. We didn't know about it, so no one coveted it. Once it was introduced it was (more) ready for distribution. There will always be a need to build hype and demand for a new design, but Interbike is like 6 months gone and some bikes won't be ready for another three or four months. That's too long to wait and is too close to Interbike 2006.

  21. #21
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    Ramazz

    Hi, I used to ride with the Gord's club and I am assuming that you are getting the Moment through them. The Moment will be a perfect Ingolf/Falcon bike but overkill for everything else in MB. Wpgrider here in Edmonton is getting one as well and I'm sure he will be going to Jasper where the Moment will be great. Say hi to JF from Jerry.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  22. #22
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    Are they sure it's a 06? I spoke with someone 2 weeks ago at Ellsworth about the 06 frames. She told me they won't be available till summer time and the years don't really mean much because they make changes to frames any time they feel a need to during the year. It's not like buying a car. I currently have a 05 being built by RBIKES.COM and will be VERY upset if I find out I was misinformed to by E and 06's are available when I'm paying the same price for a 05. I will recall E and ask this again. Good luck with your bike.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onemoment
    Are they sure it's a 06? I spoke with someone 2 weeks ago at Ellsworth about the 06 frames. She told me they won't be available till summer time and the years don't really mean much because they make changes to frames any time they feel a need to during the year. It's not like buying a car. I currently have a 05 being built by RBIKES.COM and will be VERY upset if I find out I was misinformed to by E and 06's are available when I'm paying the same price for a 05. I will recall E and ask this again. Good luck with your bike.
    As I mentioned already in this thread they have not shipped me an 06, there was some miscommunication. We decided to not wait for the changes and ordered the 05 style frame in Pewter instead of waiting till whenever they do implement the changes, though I am still more than just a little annoyed at E about this. They could have at least introduced the blue/black colour as an option for this year.

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