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  1. #1
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    Epiphany Impressions Up-Date

    Well,
    I rode last night (2nd ride on this bike) and have a few updates to my original impressions. I choose a trail full of rocks with a mix of short steep acents & decests. I have a few problems that I need to work through.

    For one, I need more air in the RP3, i'm gettting to much sag and squat will climbing & pedaling (I know, it's not bike related but it is something I need to change-I added air when I got home). I think it was at about 110-120LBS, so I bumped it up to 135LBS. Does this sound normal for the RP3? (I weigh 174 (without gear). I am also wondering that if by using the Thomson set back post( which pushes me back about 15mm) that I am negating some if the ICT properties and inducing more "bob" than usual?

    Another non-bike related issue is that the front wheel wants to lift up when i'm climbing super steep stuff - I've gone and dropeed the stem about 10mm & will try again tomarrow to see if that helped. I have always ridden a hard tail with less than 4" of travel, so I realize that this will take adapting too (my new 5" fork).

    Now, bike related, when descending steep terrain and banking into a sharp turn, I feel less confident, maybe even a little "unbalanced". This is probably related to the higher bottom bracket, and my stem being too high. I lowered the stem, but for those of you who came from a hard tail, how long did it take to feel comfy with the higher bottom bracket??

    Keep in mind, the Bike feels nice, there are many positive things to discuss, I'm just trying to work through my "minor" glitches so I can get back to enjoying the benefits!

    Also, I still can't help to wonder if I should have gotten the frame in large...the bike feels fine, I just don't like the looks of the looong seat post. I'll test ride a large the 1st opportunity I get.

    -Pusher

  2. #2
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    I'm not too familiar with the RP3, but usually you start by putting your body weight in PSI in the shock. Having the rear sag too much will make all those things you describe happen: Front pops up while climbing, rear bobs, feels sketchy in turns.

    Now that both ends of your bike are sprung, it is very important to have it set up for your riding style. This means proper sag front and rear, rebound and compression. Just start experimenting. It can help to have a friend help you set up the sag, just so you get it right.

    The set back seat post should not hurt. I run one on my Moment (Large) to give me the position over the pedals I need with my long legs. The bike is great and pedals like a hard tail!

  3. #3
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    I went with a smaller frame than my last bike, too. I noticed on my first ride that there was a lot of front wheel wander on steep climbs. It was very easy to lift the front end. I had an inline seat post, a 5 degree stem, no spacers (This is all on a Moment, mind you so the geometry is a bit different) and the fork at a full 150mm.

    I noticed that there was a lot of squat, too so I bumped up the preload.

    Since that ride, I changed to an offset post, a 0 degree stem with one spacer underneath and reduced the front travel to 135. This put me in a better pedaling position on the bike and moved some weight forward. It still wanders a bit on the climbs, so I'm going to add a bit more preload to the shock (DHX-coil at 500lb - I weigh 180 w/gear). I can't help but think, though, that the shorter TT length is having some affect on the wandering front end. The new position and set up is better, though.

    Perhaps this is what you're experiencing. I do notice, however, a significant increase in maneuverability between my two bikes, even though the Moment has a taller BB and a shorter wheelbase. It just rails like no bike I've ever ridden. So I'm almost certain the bike is "my size". I just need to tweak the specifics.
    Last edited by chad1433; 12-16-2005 at 11:03 AM.

  4. #4
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    I've always had the best luck using sag as the first adjustment when dialing in suspension. I imagine you'll want it at about 25 percent of your travel.

    The rest of your issues will sort themselves out over time. I actually prefer a lighter propedal setting in order to keep the suspension as active as possible. Don't stress too much over a little bob, and don't be afraid to tweak the suspension over time to get the best ride as you become more familiar with the bike.

    You'll likely need to shift your weight more than you had previously to take full advantage of the bike when climbing and descending. Going from a hardtail to a 5 inch travel trailbike is a big step, but once you get things sorted out, I bet you'll never go back for most of your rides. Don't cut your steerer tube until you're completely sure about the lower bar position. I've gone to less reach and drop over time as my riding has gotten more aggressive.
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  5. #5
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    Double, Chad, Bob:
    Thanks for your input, I will work on some of these tweaks this weekend and will report back on my progress!

  6. #6
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    Keep in mind that with long travel bikes your front end will wander more due to the slacker head tube angle. You trade that for the downhill stability.

    My old Truth did wander less than the Moment but in steep descents where I formerly felt like pitching over on the Truth is now easy and comfortable on the Moment.

    With the slacker head tube angle it is necessary to modify the riding style a bit. Scoot to the nose of your seat and put your upper body over the bars and don't pull up..but pull the bar toward your hip, paralleling the force to the ground. You'll find that instead of lifting your front end you'll be pulling your weight toward the front end and keeping it down.

    I think with long travel bikes there is more of a need to finess your strength while climbing. Standing up, pulling on the handle bar and hammering like you would with a hardtail don't work so well on a long travel bike. Input to the bars should be minimized on a climb.

    I remembered going from my hardtail to the 4" Truth was an easy transition due to the ICT but going from the 4" Truth to the 6" Moment was and still is a big transition. I believe you said you came from a hardtail, so going from that to 5.25" travel is a pretty big change to get used to.
    Last edited by ahimanic; 12-16-2005 at 04:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAINpusher
    Now, bike related, when descending steep terrain and banking into a sharp turn, I feel less confident, maybe even a little "unbalanced". This is probably related to the higher bottom bracket, and my stem being too high. I lowered the stem, but for those of you who came from a hard tail, how long did it take to feel comfy with the higher bottom bracket??
    That observation reminds me of the Id. Thought the Epihany BB is about 0.75" lower, all the other geometric features are similar. So I am not surprised it will ride similar to an Id. Don't worry, as posted above, you will learn to ride it in time.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  8. #8
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    Well, for one, I had no where near enough pressure in the RP3 - it had about 120# so I jacked that up to 185# and already just riding around the parking lot, the bike feels "snappier". I'll find out tomorrow morning when I hit the climbs if that helped. I just ordered a 120mm stem (currently riding 110) so I'll have that to play with next week as well...

    Ahiminac, I hear ya man, i'm tag'n the stem with nose and pull'n towards me - the problem is I climbed like that with my hard tail too, so like you said, theres simply just time needed to getting used to the travel.

    By the way, for those of you who haven't seen an Epiphany in person, the tubing is wicked sick looking, it sorta "drawls" out to a larger gauge by all the welds, so for example if you look from the top, you see the tubes getting wider as they approach the head head tube...It just looks "bombproof".

    I hope to get this baby dialed - it really is a thing of beauty.
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  9. #9
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    That is one sweet bike for sure! Can't wait to test ride one.

    Another thing about going from a XC bike to a trail bike is that we are strangers to the shorter top tube and more upright riding position on a trail bike. On a XC bike we stretch out and ride low so you may feel a bit uncomfortable with the trail bike's upright riding position...like it's less efficient or something. But that is the nature of the beast so perhaps you may want to hold off buying a 120mm stem right off the bat. Your 110mm stem is already pretty long for the trail riding standard. Now a days many are going with 70-90mm stems for trail riding which makes it easier to lift and jump. All I'm saying is you may want to give it a chance and see if you can get used to it first. If your top tube is too short then you have no choice but to get a longer stem and setback seat post.

  10. #10
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    It never ends does it??

    All Right!!

    Just got back from my 3rd ride and I'm now getting the EPI dialed - It feels almost perfect...190# seems just about right for the RP3, and AHIM, once again you're right, I canceled the 120mm stem order on my way back form the ride, now that i got my shock & fork dialed, and dropped the stem a bit - no more troubles climbing. This thing climbs just soo well.

    My adjustmentts helped my descending too, but i need some bigger tires though, the extra speed is making my 2.1 navegals feel a bit dicey. I've got 2.35 navegals on order but would like to find something a bit more "squared off".

    I may be ready to try out some XO triggers after the holidays, I have been riding the gripshift "long barrels" for so long now that these new XO short barrels are seriously lacking - I just don't get it - With the long barrels you could shift while braking, all while negotiating a tight turn. There was a reason I originally liked the long barrels more that the old classic short barrels, they allowed for you to be a MUCH more technical rider...Hence my decision to try out the triggers soon. It's to bad, I always liked the clean look of the twisters on the bar.

    Well, I'd highly recommend this bike to anyone seroiusly considering a 5-6" bike, it really feels & looks like a solid design, and I know for a fact that some people purchasing a Moment are getting a lot of bike that they'll never really push to the limit (I've seen them on the trails) - At 2 pounds lighter, the EPI is the true ONE BIKE...With that said, now I get to start figuring out which 6-7" bike I want. It never ends does it??

  11. #11
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    Great writeup, I have been waiting patiently for someone to post up a ride review.

    I order the final Part for my EPI today (hay's el comino brakes) the build is complete, all I need is my EPI frameset....

    I am so jazzed I cannot not even stand myself at the moment...

    I can live through your posts untill mine hits the doorstep, sound like a perfect fit for what you wanted it for........

    I am thinking about using grippies as well, my thumbs are wasted and can no longer thumb the gears...xo's are way out for me !!

    More ride reports please
    Hello from Colorful Colorado

  12. #12
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    That's great Painpusher, glad to hear you're getting dialed in on the Epi. It takes sometime to get it right. I'm still fuzzing over the settings on my DHX Air.

    I have the short barrel twist shifters. I actually prefer them over the long barrels because I thought I would inadvertently shift while lifting and doing drops. It was just my reasoning, no real life experience on the long barrels.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahimanic
    That's great Painpusher, glad to hear you're getting dialed in on the Epi. It takes sometime to get it right. I'm still fuzzing over the settings on my DHX Air.

    I have the short barrel twist shifters. I actually prefer them over the long barrels because I thought I would inadvertently shift while lifting and doing drops. It was just my reasoning, no real life experience on the long barrels.
    Yeah, you're definately right, when I 1st switched to the longs, I WOULD inadvertantly shift quite often, but after I got used to it (2-3 rides) I never miss shifted again (which actually suprised me) But oh well - they're gone now, I just needed to share my sorrows with you folks.

    For those of you runnig triggers, don't your thumbs start to get sore after a long ride?? I used to ride ATCs all the time (3-wheeler motorcycles), and I'd get total thumb numbness & soreness - it sucked royaly, which has kept me from considering the triggers till now.
    Last edited by PAINpusher; 12-18-2005 at 08:00 AM.

  14. #14
    Compulsive Bike Builder
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    Half pipe still available at MRX/SX-5 level

    Quote Originally Posted by PAINpusher
    Yeah, you're definately right, when I 1st switched to the longs, I WOULD inadvertantly shift quite often, but after I got used to it (2-3 rides) I never miss shifted again (which actually suprised me) But oh well - they're gone now, I just needed to share my sorrows with you folks.
    You can still get the half pipes, just not so high up in the SRAM product line - the MRX pro is available for Shimano rear derailleurs:
    http://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain...rs/mrx/pro.php

    and SX5 for SRAM rear derailleurs:
    http://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain.../SX5/twist.php

    It is kind of like running Deore, but at least it is available. Sometimes good ideas get shuffled down to a lower level of component. You have to go below Deore to get a square taper crankset from Shimano for '06, for example, the Deore crankset (500 series) for '06 is spline only.

    On the other hand some of that lower end stuff is still very nice, this way you still get good components and you are forced to save money.

    None of our distributors list those shifters yet, but we can "pull them through" special order, I am sure, we just got a silver Thomson X2 stem that way for a customer (me, actually), and NO ONE has a part number for those yet.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAINpusher

    For those of you runnig triggers, don't your thumbs start to get sore after a long ride?? I used to ride ATCs all the time (3-wheeler motorcycles), and I'd get total thumb numbness & soreness - it sucked royaly, which has kept me from considering the triggers till now.
    No, I don't get sore thumbs. From my bikeshop days, I'd say that numbness results from a lack of bloodflow, and that is due to either the sweep of your bars, or the shape of the grips. Moving your fingers around (using the shifters) is good, although the rapid fire shiftesr only get a few fingeres moving.

    Flat bars are the enemy here. Besides the sweep part, they're also usually lower, which puts more weight on your hands and palms, and that also helps to prevent adaquate circulation.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    No, I don't get sore thumbs. From my bikeshop days, I'd say that numbness results from a lack of bloodflow, and that is due to either the sweep of your bars, or the shape of the grips. Moving your fingers around (using the shifters) is good, although the rapid fire shiftesr only get a few fingeres moving.

    Flat bars are the enemy here. Besides the sweep part, they're also usually lower, which puts more weight on your hands and palms, and that also helps to prevent adaquate circulation.
    I get the sore thumbs and have used gripshifters, both regular and half-pipe, for a long time. I'm back to the regular short ones now and prefer them.

    I attribute the soreness to years of MTB (and road) riding plus XC skiing in the winter, not to position on the bike or handlebar type.

  17. #17
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    Try the SRAM triggers before buying. You have to be able to draw your thumb back pretty far, even on the new ones with adjustable reach. I love these shifters and feel they are the most durable I've used, but they're not for everyone...Mike

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Brown
    Try the SRAM triggers before buying. You have to be able to draw your thumb back pretty far, even on the new ones with adjustable reach. I love these shifters and feel they are the most durable I've used, but they're not for everyone...Mike
    Hey! I'm glad to hear you say this, I thought I was crazy b/c I too feel like you have to pull your thumb way back to shift on these triggers when I demoed them, but since I've heard no one else complain about it I just figured it was set up wrong... I will definatly find a pair of XOs to try out before I purchase.

  19. #19
    Time is not a road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trekster
    Great writeup, I have been waiting patiently for someone to post up a ride review.

    I order the final Part for my EPI today (hay's el comino brakes) the build is complete, all I need is my EPI frameset....

    I am so jazzed I cannot not even stand myself at the moment...

    I can live through your posts untill mine hits the doorstep, sound like a perfect fit for what you wanted it for........

    I am thinking about using grippies as well, my thumbs are wasted and can no longer thumb the gears...xo's are way out for me !!

    More ride reports please
    If it ever stops snowing around here, I might get some more rides in! There's nothing worse than your brand new bike sitting idle next to the Xmas tree...

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