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  1. #1
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    New question here. Ellsworth Quality?

    I just got my new Moment in Ano Black this week. Sweet Bike!!! The ano is the media blasted version. I get the bike home and start looking it over before I put all my parts on it and notice a few little things. Maybe I'm just a little too picky...but i just spent some major coin to get this frame and I was interested in what others have seen.

    First I notice that the rear rocker arms have a few shallow scratches in them...maybe they were bumped with tools during assembly, I dunno. Then I see a small ding in the top tube near the head tube. The ding didn't dent the tube, just a slight localized depression that looks like something hard hit it before it was media blasted and ano'ed. The ding is about 2mm x 2mm (really shallow) and has the rough surface as the rest of the bike, so I'm sure that it happened before they media blasted and ano'ed it. There is no structural danger, just slightly cosmetic. Finally, the bottom bracket threads on the non-drive side were buggered up. I tried cleaning them, but they ended up needing to be chased with a tap.

    So I guess I am wondering, were my expectations to high on what to expect? I rode the bike today and it is amazing! I love how it climbs and handles...great bike. I also know I'm gunna probably get dings and scratches...but should I have expected a "perfect" frame from the start?

    Just wondering.

    Thanks guys,

    Jim

  2. #2
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    If you look hard, I guess you will find those things on almost any new hand built frame out there . At least I have, and I have seen many new high end frames.
    I agree it should not be like this, but thats just how they come.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaMan
    If you look hard, I guess you will find those things on almost any new hand built frame out there . At least I have, and I have seen many new high end frames.
    I agree it should not be like this, but thats just how they come.
    Thanks for the reply. This is my first "Handmade" frame. I use quotes because the Specialized I had before was supposedly handmade. It has a number of nicks and dings that can be seen under the paint. I just didn't know what to expect from a higher end manufacturer. I've done my share of metal fab and know when you have a smooth piece of aluminum how easy it is to nick and ding. Clearly they cannot throw a frame away because it has a few nicks...I can imagine how hard it is going to be to manufacture the new ones that are the smooth and shiny ano.

    I will say this is the best riding bike I have ever been on. Tony has got something figured out here!

  4. #4
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    I will say this is the best riding bike I have ever been on. Tony has got something figured out here![/QUOTE]


    I agree it is one hell of a bike. About the second part of your sentence, well,ummm, I'm not really sure... The Moment is THE perfect trail bike. Don't know why they are gonna change it for 2006. I don't think it can get much better than they got it now.

  5. #5
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    Geez, what do you expect for that kind of money, you should be thankfull that the seattube is smooth and doesn't rip your seatpost to shreds.
    You can't make a racehorse out of a donkey, but you can make a fast donkey.

  6. #6
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    I have got to agree with you on the 'perfect' bike. Regardless of how much I put down for the frame, I want it perfect and blemish-free. It's also true that it isn't going to be perfect for long, BUT STILL...

    I guess it's too late to return it (and would you even want to?). It also sounds like you are 'over it' and enjoying one of the best trail bikes on the market. (Obvious) lesson to be learned is to take it back to the dealer as soon as you see the blemishes (all the more reason to buy LBS rather than WBS).

    Ride some rough trails with loose rocks/gravel so that you can get a little trail rash on it - all will be forgotten!

    Enjoy the ride (and don't going looking at Epiphany reviews) .

  7. #7
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    that is why I dont look too closely when getting a new frame.....only look closely after a few rides

  8. #8
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    It was hard enough to wait a week to get the frame...I couldn't imagine waiting any longer. I would have liked a perfect frame...if it had been a structural problem I would have gone back for sure. My LBS is good and would have gotten this one replaced if I wanted.

    I really just wanted to see if I others have seen this in their frames...I know I am picky.

    By the way, got a really good ride in on some technical single track this Sunday and this thig rocks! My friends on their long travel bikes used to smoke me when I was on my Stumpjumper...not anymore. I think it can only get better.

  9. #9
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    I think when you buy a new bike frame, you should understand and accept any minor scratches and markings which may have been caused by the manufacturing process. But as I said, it should only be the most minor little markings. Anything else, including, dents, significant markings or otherwise should be enough for the frame to be returned. You are making a large payment in consideration for a new and perfect Ellsworth frame so be sure thats what you get - or make an issue out of it...

    If you really thing the markings and alike are significant and something more than a by product of machining and manufacturing return the good for another one!
    Trev!

  10. #10
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubleoh9
    It was hard enough to wait a week to get the frame...I couldn't imagine waiting any longer. I would have liked a perfect frame...if it had been a structural problem I would have gone back for sure. My LBS is good and would have gotten this one replaced if I wanted.

    I really just wanted to see if I others have seen this in their frames...I know I am picky.

    By the way, got a really good ride in on some technical single track this Sunday and this thig rocks! My friends on their long travel bikes used to smoke me when I was on my Stumpjumper...not anymore. I think it can only get better.
    I dont think you are picky, just human. It is a lot of coin for sure. I have always recieved my bikes built and undoubtedly during the process of putting it together something will bet scuffed so I have become used to it. But I bet if I had just the frame I would probably look closely.

    In no time I am sure your friends will be chasing you.

    cheers

  11. #11
    "Its All Good"
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    I dont think you should ever feel picky or padantic, this is some serious coin for a frame, it would be like purchasing a one off Ferrari, when you do a basic comparison.

    Some of these little blemish's lets say can give your scooter character too though.

    Also waiting a week is all good, try 6 months, no fun there...

    Enjoy the ride, you now know.............................
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  12. #12
    "Its All Good"
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    whoops, show us a picture or 2 of the bike

    A few pictures would be good for the clan, ya know what they say, 1000 words
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubleoh9
    I just got my new Moment in Ano Black this week. Sweet Bike!!! The ano is the media blasted version. I get the bike home and start looking it over before I put all my parts on it and notice a few little things. Maybe I'm just a little too picky...but i just spent some major coin to get this frame and I was interested in what others have seen.

    First I notice that the rear rocker arms have a few shallow scratches in them...maybe they were bumped with tools during assembly, I dunno. Then I see a small ding in the top tube near the head tube. The ding didn't dent the tube, just a slight localized depression that looks like something hard hit it before it was media blasted and ano'ed. The ding is about 2mm x 2mm (really shallow) and has the rough surface as the rest of the bike, so I'm sure that it happened before they media blasted and ano'ed it. There is no structural danger, just slightly cosmetic. Finally, the bottom bracket threads on the non-drive side were buggered up. I tried cleaning them, but they ended up needing to be chased with a tap.

    So I guess I am wondering, were my expectations to high on what to expect? I rode the bike today and it is amazing! I love how it climbs and handles...great bike. I also know I'm gunna probably get dings and scratches...but should I have expected a "perfect" frame from the start?

    Just wondering.

    Thanks guys,

    Jim
    Since you mentioned, I looked at mine and found two dings as well. One on left side head tube, and one on top tube near the first one. They are about 1 mm in size and really really shallow. I suspect they could be some kind of mark from joining the tubes. Just a wild guess.

  14. #14
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    Let's see if I got this image posting figured out...

    Here's the bike. 19" frame, 31.25 pounds.



    Here's a few of the scratches on the rocker arms:



    Here's the ding in the frame:


  15. #15
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    I just got my new Moment in Ano Black this week. Sweet Bike!!! The ano is the media blasted version. I get the bike home and start looking it over before I put all my parts on it and notice a few little things. Maybe I'm just a little too picky...but i just spent some major coin to get this frame and I was interested in what others have seen.

    First I notice that the rear rocker arms have a few shallow scratches in them...maybe they were bumped with tools during assembly, I dunno. Then I see a small ding in the top tube near the head tube. The ding didn't dent the tube, just a slight localized depression that looks like something hard hit it before it was media blasted and ano'ed. The ding is about 2mm x 2mm (really shallow) and has the rough surface as the rest of the bike, so I'm sure that it happened before they media blasted and ano'ed it. There is no structural danger, just slightly cosmetic. Finally, the bottom bracket threads on the non-drive side were buggered up. I tried cleaning them, but they ended up needing to be chased with a tap.

    So I guess I am wondering, were my expectations to high on what to expect? I rode the bike today and it is amazing! I love how it climbs and handles...great bike. I also know I'm gunna probably get dings and scratches...but should I have expected a "perfect" frame from the start?

    Just wondering.

    Thanks guys,

    Jim
    Dam straight dude I'd be pissed myself, anyways where did you purchase your frame!

    I have purchased 2 frames, ID and Moment and both were sweet (except for the inner seat tube of my Moment I had an ealry one, my LBS reemed her good, though my Thomson will never be the same again, everything else is is still sweet..

    I always have the bottom bracket chased and threaded, and head tube reemed as standard, any half decent LBS should do this without asking IMO to any frame, not sure if you went through an LBS!

    Since this Moment wasn't from there new Factory these may be few and far between, I'd certainely go back to who ever and raise it, you spent the $$ its your right to question!!

    Good luck and enjoy the ride she is a sweet machine..

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  16. #16
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    No hold on. I had a look at the frame ding picture and sorry but thats not really anything to worry about. I think its safe to say you should except some of that on a frame. One or two here and there will not hurt.
    Trev!

  17. #17
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    The (impossible to see) DING!

    Trev!

  18. #18
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    This is OK I think. Its not perfection but nevertheless from a functional side of things it would be fine I suspect.

    Trev!

  19. #19
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    I knew it wasn't a safety issue...just a finish issue. The little ding does look worse in the sun, the camera doesn't quite capture the contrast...that said, I'm not afraid of the thing breaking. I was just comparing it to my mass market Specialized. It has a few nicks and a really crappy paint job. I just didn't know what to expect from a high end frame builder. I think the bike is awesome. Didn't know if others had seen similar things on their bikes.

    Thanks for getting the pictures posted...how the heck did you do that?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubleoh9

    Thanks for getting the pictures posted...how the heck did you do that?
    When you post a picture to the gallery you cant use that link as that is a link to a page rather than the image itself.

    Right click on the image and open it in a new window or copy the image link the use that URL when posting images.

    I hope that helps.

    I just didn't know what to expect from a high end frame builder. I think the bike is awesome. Didn't know if others had seen similar things on their bikes.
    Thats fair enough. When I purchased my Truth I didn't have a good idea of what to expect either. From memory my frame has a few imperfections like that. I am not too sure if thats what you should expect from Ellsworth or from relative size frame builders in general. I must admit you generally don't see this on Big Names, but remember they are heavily powder-coated and alike. I am not too sure if this would fill little holes up.

    Perhaps somebody else has a better idea?
    Trev!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubleoh9
    I knew it wasn't a safety issue...just a finish issue. The little ding does look worse in the sun, the camera doesn't quite capture the contrast...that said, I'm not afraid of the thing breaking. I was just comparing it to my mass market Specialized. It has a few nicks and a really crappy paint job. I just didn't know what to expect from a high end frame builder. I think the bike is awesome. Didn't know if others had seen similar things on their bikes.

    Thanks for getting the pictures posted...how the heck did you do that?

    You call that a ding ?
    Back when I bought my Id, I had 2 of those. I was concerned. So I took a look at my friends Id. Found 2 of those also on his......
    When I bought the Moment, guess what... I also had those marks (only one)...
    I also got a Ball Burnished Intense. It also has these marks. I guess that you can simply see them on non-painted or non-powdercoated frames.

  22. #22
    "Its All Good"
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    As I said, it gives our pieces of art character. I feel it is fair to say that painting etc fills minor material faults, if you can call them faults, slight blemishes lets say. I have bought two Ellsworths, an ID and a DARE, mine had these slight ever so slight indentations. We are not taking your point away from you though.

    Enjoy that beast, enjoy it when it is pointed straight down a narly trail especially
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  23. #23
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    I used to be worried about dings and scratches until I took a real good digger and my bike did not fair as well. It hit a couple of rocks and scratched the shite out of the paint.

    I understand about getting a new rig with the first ding already installed. That does suck.

    I've had people point out scratches I did not even know about. All I say is that it is proof that I ride my bike and push the limits. One of my buddys that races for BMW said it best:
    You worry about scratches on your car until you put your M3 into a wall at 120 mph the first time.
    Team MOJO Wheels.

  24. #24
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    Fortunately I did not have any tube dings in my new Moment frame but it did have a few shallow indentations in the corners of the black chain stay where it connects with the seat tube.

    It kind of bugged me until my frame fell over and hit the edge of the tool box which place a couple of dents on the rocker arm...it's all good now!

    A bigger thing to concern with is the cleaniness and smoothness of the seat tube interior. These bead blasted frames are notorious for having renagade balls inside of the frame that can put some nasty scratches inside the seat tube and on your seat post. The Path where I got the frame filled the holes leading into the seat tube with some spray insulation foam. Balls get into the tube set and sometimes find their way back out into the seat tube. My wife's Truth had this problem and scratched the crap out of some seat posts.

  25. #25
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    I know where you're coming from, on my first ride on my Moment the rear brake hose wore a nice path in the rocker arm- i was really pissed at that, but now i couldn't care less.
    The gap is tight on the medium and i now zip tie it to the front mech cable.
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    You can't make a racehorse out of a donkey, but you can make a fast donkey.

  26. #26
    Only One Way
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    Crazzy

    You actually rubbed the dirt off to find that? :-) Funny man I love it!! PRobably should not clean it you will find some more!! :-)))

    The funny faces show that I am kidding with you.... (you know posts get crazy sometimes)


    Quote Originally Posted by A MAN CALLED HORSE
    I know where you're coming from, on my first ride on my Moment the rear brake hose wore a nice path in the rocker arm- i was really pissed at that, but now i couldn't care less.
    The gap is tight on the medium and i now zip tie it to the front mech cable.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT Road
    You actually rubbed the dirt off to find that? :-) Funny man I love it!! PRobably should not clean it you will find some more!! :-)))

    The funny faces show that I am kidding with you.... (you know posts get crazy sometimes)
    The more piss-taking the better for me, love it
    I take it from your handle that you ride a road bike (maybe wrong). Now if i marked a beautiful racer- then i would be upset, don't have one at the present but nothing better for getting fit.
    You can't make a racehorse out of a donkey, but you can make a fast donkey.

  28. #28
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    Yea Road is good..

    Love the road bike, I ride a custom built Waterford it is 15 years old, it was given to me when I was 18 and racing for a shop. I had it repainted LY and put on all new parts. The MTB is a Moment, Love it, my second Ells... First time out hit a rock on a tight track and scrtached up the non drive chainstay..

    I thought these posts where funny, I never look that hard at the MTB the RB yea but not the MTN..

    Total miles this year (so far) 1872 as of right now..

    Quote Originally Posted by A MAN CALLED HORSE
    The more piss-taking the better for me, love it
    I take it from your handle that you ride a road bike (maybe wrong). Now if i marked a beautiful racer- then i would be upset, don't have one at the present but nothing better for getting fit.

  29. #29
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    The tiny little bit ding on the frame
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyfish
    The tiny little bit ding on the frame
    Um.... It is a MOUNTAIN BIKE. It will get scratched. Unless if that miniscule ding results in strength degradation, then complaining about that little ding is just pointless. It's not like there is a long scratch on your frame. What are you going to do? Not ride your mountain bike and keep it stored in your room so it will always be shiny and scratch free? Come on people.

    If this is an expensive road bike, I'd understand, but it is a MOUNTAIN BIKE!!!!!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffunda
    Um.... It is a MOUNTAIN BIKE. It will get scratched. Unless if that miniscule ding results in strength degradation, then complaining about that little ding is just pointless. It's not like there is a long scratch on your frame. What are you going to do? Not ride your mountain bike and keep it stored in your room so it will always be shiny and scratch free? Come on people.

    If this is an expensive road bike, I'd understand, but it is a MOUNTAIN BIKE!!!!!
    Clearly you missed the whole point of the original question, so I'll sum it up for you:

    Should someone expect a flawless frame when buying on from a high-end maker?

  32. #32
    "Its All Good"
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    D09, I hear you, I think some are reading the last past and giving you shiat for no reason, never did you complain, you merely asked a question that should be asked.

    Enjoy the ride dude
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubleoh9
    Clearly you missed the whole point of the original question, so I'll sum it up for you:

    Should someone expect a flawless frame when buying on from a high-end maker?
    I think there is no such thing as a "flawless" product, no matter how much the cost. After all, actual people make those bikes, not some tinkerbell using magic pixie dust. Is Lexus flawless? I don' think so, but I think is pretty darn close. "High-end maker" is also relative. Cadillac is "high end." Lexus is "high end." But Rolls Royce is "high end" also.

    When you're talking scratches where it is obvious that it was mishandled in some way, then it makes sense to complain, but when I saw that ultra tiny "dent" that Trevor posted, then I thought, "you know, then might as well measure every frame dimension on the frame with a laser and note anything that is not within 0.01mm of the spec.

    All I am stating is that you just gotta draw the line somewhere.

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