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Thread: Ellsworth News

  1. #1
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    Ellsworth News

    Just in case you missed it on the mtbr home page:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=159232

  2. #2
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    not 100% sure what to make of this. except that i just ordered a moment thinking i was getting a boutique frame. not a mass produced one that every schmoe in town had. i hope it doesn't go that far or i woulda saved my money and gotten a specialized.

    btw, since when i western union a financial powerhouse?

  3. #3
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    More Ellsworths = less exclusivity

    ....but that's all. We can't blame Ellsworth for wanting to grow his business. He has made it known that he is looking to take the company to a wider audience. They are starting to sell bikes with component specs done at the factory (check the website). And his move to the new factory will provide a good measuring stick to see how many frames they can churn out, keep costs down, and quality up. In the end, I think we just have to get used to more E's on the trail. I have to admit, I like the boutique-ness(?) of the brand. BUT let's be honest, that is pretty shallow. We should take the attitude, "the more Ellsworths out there, the more people understand how good of a bike it is"...all good.

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    i can't blame them for wanting to expand. but at the same time, part of the price, probably a big part, is based on the exclusivity. had i seen this post yesterday, i might have thought twice before paying so much for a frame that will no longer be so exclusive.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    i can't blame them for wanting to expand. but at the same time, part of the price, probably a big part, is based on the exclusivity. had i seen this post yesterday, i might have thought twice before paying so much for a frame that will no longer be so exclusive.
    Exclusiveness is largely connected with price. As long as Ells charges a premium for their products the market share will be limited. It will be interesting to see what direction the pricing takes.

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    exactly. as long as he keeps charging 2300 for a frame, his market is gonna be extremely limited. if he wants to sell more, the only way he's gonna do that is to lower the price. either way, i just paid a bunch of money for a special frame and part of what made it special and worth that money was the exclusivity. it sounds like next year this frame will no longer be so exclusive, and so not as special and not worth the extra money.

  7. #7
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    Too bad

    I was hoping Tony Ellsworth had an awakening and realized never ending warranties are stupid and foolish; particularly, in light of the fact that some of his frames break. I was also hoping he would quite the stupid ICT marketing campaign that only a trained chimp would buy. I also hoped he would quite threatening to sue other companies. I'm sure that guy is a sharp sales person...only the best and brightest in the bike business. Right....

    Jaybo

    PS I'm feeling a bit surly.

  8. #8
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    Fyi

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I was hoping Tony Ellsworth had an awakening and realized never ending warranties are stupid and foolish; particularly, in light of the fact that some of his frames break.
    Ellsworth changed warranty - it is 2 years now. As far as broken frames go - all frames break... As a matter of the fact, some other big name boutique frames have been breaking more than Ellsworth lately...


    I was also hoping he would quite the stupid ICT marketing campaign that only a trained chimp would buy.
    well, david turner thought that ICT was a good design and was putting the sticker on his bikes for as long as he was paying royalties to Ellsworth... I know that David is much smarter than any trained chimp. I haven't met you, so I can not vouch for you.


    I also hoped he would quite threatening to sue other companies.
    Patent infringement. Helllooooo... Whether you like it or not, that is one of the basis of capitalistic society.


    I'm sure that guy is a sharp sales person...only the best and brightest in the bike business. Right....
    ummm, come again please... you lost me now...


    Jaybo

    PS I'm feeling a bit surly.
    too much coffee? try decaf...

  9. #9
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    Price drops!?!?!


    can only dream

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    The addition of Dave to the team is because with the intro of the Epiphany, the changes in customer service, moving production in house and a host of new products on the go Paul was overburdened. I have spoke with Dave already and he is going only going to help do positive things to make things better for all current and future Ellsworth owners.

  11. #11
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    You have drank the Koolaid

    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    Ellsworth changed warranty - it is 2 years now. As far as broken frames go - all frames break... As a matter of the fact, some other big name boutique frames have been breaking more than Ellsworth lately...




    well, david turner thought that ICT was a good design and was putting the sticker on his bikes for as long as he was paying royalties to Ellsworth... I know that David is much smarter than any trained chimp. I haven't met you, so I can not vouch for you.




    Patent infringement. Helllooooo... Whether you like it or not, that is one of the basis of capitalistic society.




    ummm, come again please... you lost me now...




    too much coffee? try decaf...

    I have owned and ridden many Ellsworth bikes. My Ellsworth had such a crooked rear disc tab that I had to almost drill a hole into it to make it work with Magura brakes. Crappy craftsmanship. About 3 weeks into owning that piece of garbarge, I got a shreaking noise from a pivot. I lubed it but it would come back about every third ride. Nice.

    Oh, you are denying Ells frames have broken in the past at a higher clip than the average frame? Come on, we all know that is true. The 2001 Truth among others broke all the time...

    The patent thing hurt the whole bike industry. Think about it! Basta*ds! It hurts you but you don't know it...sad. We should all quite buying Ells and Specalized until the grow up and stop this crap. I know, capitalism, but it hurts us. I have not bought a Specialized product in years becaus of their nonsense.

    The ICT thing is stupid beyond belief. What was the stupid ad? Every mile you go 3 miles per hour faster or whatever. Dumb!

    Cruise mtbr.com! This is the most despised company in the bike industry. No doubt. Is it warranted? I think so!

    Jaybo
    Last edited by Jaybo; 01-21-2006 at 06:14 PM.

  12. #12
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    yawn...

    i love koolaid... watermelon one...

    you dont like Ellsworth?

    that is perfectly fine with me.

    If you want, we can start the petition to the moderators in order to start CCM manufacturer's forum just for you. Ellsworth is not for everyone, obviously...


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I have owned and ridden many Ellsworth bikes. My Ellsworth had such a crooked rear disc tab that I had to almost drill a hole into it to make it work with Magura brakes. Crappy craftsmanship. About 3 weeks into owning that piece of garbarge, I got a shreaking noise from a pivot. I lubed it but it would come back about every third ride. Nice.

    Oh, you are denying Ells frames have broken in the past at a higher clip than the average frame? Come on, we all know that is true. The 2001 Truth among others broke all the time...

    The patent thing hurt the whole bike industry. Think about it! Basta*ds! It hurts you but you don't know it...sad.

    The ICT thing is stupid beyond belief. What was the stupid ad? Every mile you go 3 miles per hour faster or whatever. Dumb!

    Cruise mtbr.com! This is the most despised company in the bike industry. No doubt. Is it warranted? I think so!

    Jaybo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vongrief
    osokolo,well spokane.We all know jaybo is not a Ellsworth fan.Let it go,its getting old.People that ride Ellsworth Bikes like them,plan and simple.If they did'nt they would probally ride a T,whoops almost said the T word.

    I know this trained monkey loves his Ellsworth. I guess I should've consulted the masses on mtbr before I bought it. No matter how it rides, how much I like it, or how long it lasts I will remember to consult mtbr before I make any further purchases. I will lose sleep knowing somebody here doesn't like my bike....

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    We don't deny for one second that there where some issues but, if you look at what Tony has done over the last twelve months you can see that this is all being addressed. Customer service and warranty as of late has been above and beyond all most any other company I have heard of. You are entitled to your opinion and we are all dissapointed that you had a bad experience because that it is not what Ellsworth wants. As for the rest of us, those who ride...know.

  15. #15
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    ICT - Stupid and dumb?

    Jaybo,
    IMO when you call something stupid and dumb, but don't back it up with a rational explaination, some might think you are stupid, dumb or just lazy. Can you communicate intelligently to us, why ICT is so stupid and dumb?

  16. #16
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    I Really enjoy how the Ellsworth rides, and I have a single pivot and vpp bike. Ehh they all work, no breaks yet!

  17. #17
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    I just resent their ways....

    Quote Originally Posted by epicmtbruce
    Jaybo,
    IMO when you call something stupid and dumb, but don't back it up with a rational explaination, some might think you are stupid, dumb or just lazy. Can you communicate intelligently to us, why ICT is so stupid and dumb?
    I don't like companies like Ellsworth who hurt the whoke bike industry by patents and nonsense that makes little sense. I can tell you that the ICT on the Ellsworth Truth isn't any better than any other 4" travel 4 bar bike that I have ever ridden. Ellsworth does make a nice looking bike that rides well but they are hurting the whole bike industry. We should boycott them not support them. This is a passion sport that needs corporate BS to end or get teh wrath or all bikers on their tails like stink on crap. We are too stupid to do because we are into this stupid loyality...it reminds me of the Turner crowd that believes the new Turners are not worse despite an inferior pivot location....

    Jaybo

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    Very interesting. Not sure what it means. I hope it is all positive.
    Trev!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbexx
    ....but that's all. We can't blame Ellsworth for wanting to grow his business. He has made it known that he is looking to take the company to a wider audience. They are starting to sell bikes with component specs done at the factory (check the website). And his move to the new factory will provide a good measuring stick to see how many frames they can churn out, keep costs down, and quality up. In the end, I think we just have to get used to more E's on the trail. I have to admit, I like the boutique-ness(?) of the brand. BUT let's be honest, that is pretty shallow. We should take the attitude, "the more Ellsworths out there, the more people understand how good of a bike it is"...all good.

    Exclusivity is irrelevant if the bike rides well.
    Trev!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I don't like companies like Ellsworth who hurt the whoke bike industry by patents and nonsense that makes little sense. I can tell you that the ICT on the Ellsworth Truth isn't any better than any other 4" travel 4 bar bike that I have ever ridden. Ellsworth does make a nice looking bike that rides well but they are hurting the whole bike industry. We should boycott them not support them. This is a passion sport that needs corporate BS to end or get teh wrath or all bikers on their tails like stink on crap. We are too stupid to do because we are into this stupid loyality...it reminds me of the Turner crowd that believes the new Turners are not worse despite an inferior pivot location....

    Jaybo
    Jaybo you should start your own bike company. It can't be all that hard if all these stupid people are doing it. You could have info-mercials like the auto shift bike. I can see it now- "Hi, I'm Jaybo and I'm not an engineer but I act like on on mtbr." Your catch phrase for the company could be "Jaybo bikes- all other bikes are stupid" or "Only trained monkeys don't ride Jaybos." Oh- this is even better; provide free bikes to the military and you could have the Department of Homeland Security endorse your company. That way you could say people who don't ride Jaybo bikes aren't patriotic or are filthy terrorists. It's perfect!

    Yeah those patents are killing the bike industry. If it wasn't for that we'd still have GT, Schwinn, and Mongoose around. It's all Tony's fault those are no longer what they were. Patents prevented me from chosing anything but an Ellsworth (as I am only a trained monkey) so I'm sure my buying an Ellsworth only adds to the next company going under. We cyclists, as a passionate group, should investigate monopoly litigation against Ellsworth because their patent took away my "right to choose."


    P.S. I'm feeling a little sarcastic this morning.

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    Greetings,
    The price of Ellsworths dropped in the UK about 2 months ago, £600 off both the top end bikes which are now £1299 (ish), I think the Jokers are about £700. I can understand Ellsworth wanting to branch out but am wondering at what cost to the frame, no compant can offered such a price drop so I'm curious where they are cutting the cost - I realise they are being built in house now but that is one heck of a price drop. I own a Moment and it's by far the best bike I have owned, it does everything I'm capable of and more, regarding the ICT - Im no genius but I do know that it pedals great and I'm more than happy with it!

    And as it's dropped by so much in the UK - you guys in the US should be getting an even better deal!!!
    Last edited by CLANGER69; 01-22-2006 at 09:54 AM.

  22. #22
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    okay, lets ask few more questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I don't like companies like Ellsworth who hurt the whoke bike industry by patents and nonsense that makes little sense.
    well, you already stated the ICT is worthless. So if Ellsworth has a patent on ICT, and ICT is worthless - why would their patent hurt the whole industry??? Following your logic, all industry should be thankfull to Ellsworth for patenting worthless piece of mechanical crap, and do away with their faux 4 bar design or VPP or whatever... No?


    I can tell you that the ICT on the Ellsworth Truth isn't any better than any other 4" travel 4 bar bike that I have ever ridden.

    Then you know something that David Turner doesnt. He used ICT on his design and was paying royalties to his competitor... I guess, following your logic, David Turner is just a trained monkey... Is he?


    Ellsworth does make a nice looking bike that rides well
    cha-ching - first statement that makes sense...


    ...but they are hurting the whole bike industry.
    why are they hurting the whole industry??? you stated that ICT is stupid design and is no better than anything else that has 4 bars... who would want to use ICT on their bikes anyway???


    We should boycott them not support them. This is a passion sport that needs corporate BS to end or get teh wrath or all bikers on their tails like stink on crap. We are too stupid to do because we are into this stupid loyality...
    should we also kill all communists?


    it reminds me of the Turner crowd that believes the new Turners are not worse despite an inferior pivot location....
    Oooops, did you just say that the new TNT Turner design is inferior to ICT????? Did you?
    Last edited by osokolo; 01-22-2006 at 01:59 PM.

  23. #23
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    Osokolo, stop picking on Jaybo with logical arguments.

    It's like using a machine gun on a mouse.

  24. #24
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    Looks like a customer service solution, to me. Perhaps many of the things that went on here last year have prompted this sort of response, so in essence, the Company took to heart what others were saying and they created a plan to combat some of the problems. While this is speculation, it does seem like they will be better poised to handle warranty claims and customer service.

    You may see more Ellsworths on the trail, but how can this be bad? I've only ever seen maybe a dozen or two Ellsworths since I've been riding (then again, I'm not in Cali!). I doubt the market share will reach anywhere near the levels of Specialized or Giant.

    Also, more bikes means more spares, in case you ever need them. I'm not saying that you will, but just in case

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    Step in the right direction

    Chad, I agree, Ells is trying to fix their image with customers after the beating they took the last few years. This is another step in the right direction. I can also see why Ells wants to grow. They just sunk a lot of money into a new manufacturing facility. I'm sure they're looking for a ROI as soon as possible. After all it is a business and not a charity. Hopefully, with more bikes, the prices will come down a bit. But I can't really see them selling more bikes at the current prices because when I go into my local Ells dealer, he's got a bunch of frames hanging from the rafters, including Epiphanies. It doesn't look like the demand is exceeding the supply. Funny thing about you mentioning more Ells on the trails. On a ride last week, I saw 6 Ells on the trail! Well, that's OC for ya.

    How about this? If Ells doesn't sell more bikes, will they take on manufacturing for other bike companies? That's another way to recoup on investments....we shall see.

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    Ellsworth Growth

    Lots of god dialouge aroud this topic so I though I would weigh in to help clarify some things as there is always a lot of speculation about what is going on behind the scenes. First of all for our dedicated followers thank you for your business and in many cases thank you for your patience. When we talk about Ellsworth growing it is more a function of corporate maturity rather than some Wall St. growth pattern. I can absolutely assure you that Ellsworth has no intention of loosing any of its boutique feel or its relationship with our family of owners both past and future. In fact, the level of growth we are targeting will probably not even be recognizable to the average enthusiast. What you will see are more improvements like some of you have experienced in the warranty and tech support process in the last year and a half. We have some exceptional dealers we need to do a better job of supporting and we have a few dealers who could not explain ICT if you gave them a million dollars. We need to educate weak dealers or weed them out. We need to continue on the track of being a company that is dependable and easy to deal with so that not only is it the best bike someone ever buys but it is also the best experience they have ever had. Tony will be focusing a great deal of his energy around the design and production aspects of the business (as evidenced by our new 2007 line). Few people have a deep understanding of how dramatic a move it was for this little company to fund, build and hire for our own in house production facility. No matter the rumors, this was an absolutly enormous undertaking but it is already paying remarkable dividends in terms of quality control and design dynamic. Many people don't know that the eight hands that are making Ellsworth's today are the same eight hands that have been making them for ten years but now they are in control of the quality process and have participation in the design and planning aspects where before they were hamstrung in these areas .

    While Tony concentrates on this area of the business Paul Cusick (formerly of Spinergy, American Bicycle Group and Speedplay) and I will work with our customer base and our dealer network. We will be quadrupling the number of owner retreats and attending most of the major US events with our new Demo fleet and road show. Ther have been some funny questions about me (my favorite is about guys who can't change their tires) and a few owners mentioned that I should post a bit of my story. Yes, I am a former big business guy but the fact is that I am an Ellsworth owner who was so taken with the bikes and the people who make them and all the mystique around the company that I decided that I had to become a part of it. I have worked for Tony for the last two years on the side to help him with things like the Warranty program and the sales and marketing direction. I did this work for free because I think this is such a remarkable company. Maybe it took me this long to prove myself to them and maybe it was talking myself into it but I dropped my entire career as a fortune 200 executive to change my life and join Ellsworth full time and I feel very very lucky to be a part of it.

    So, you might pass me on the trail but at least you won't have to change my tire.

    Dave

  27. #27
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    Thanks for dropping by, Dave. Sounds like some exciting changes at Ellsworth for sure.

    Sorry about the mess. We would have cleaned up a bit if we knew you were coming over. Don't be such a stranger from now on, y'hear.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  28. #28
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    Thanks for dropping by Dave and letting yourself be known. It is always good to hear things straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Please continue to post here and let us know of any and all exciting developments with Ellsworth. I for one am looking forward to the owner retreats.

    Oh, and BTW, don't mind Jaybo. He was dropped as a child. He is still trying to figure out the difference between his head and his butt. Makes for a very weird riding style!

  29. #29
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    Thanks Dave for the nice write-up. Eight hands, wow. That makes my bike so much more personalised, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. What can I say.. Those that ride, know .

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    Quote Originally Posted by CLANGER69
    Greetings,
    The price of Ellsworths dropped in the UK about 2 months ago, £600 off both the top end bikes which are now £1299 (ish), I think the Jokers are about £700. I can understand Ellsworth wanting to branch out but am wondering at what cost to the frame, no compant can offered such a price drop so I'm curious where they are cutting the cost - I realise they are being built in house now but that is one heck of a price drop. I own a Moment and it's by far the best bike I have owned, it does everything I'm capable of and more, regarding the ICT - Im no genius but I do know that it pedals great and I'm more than happy with it!

    And as it's dropped by so much in the UK - you guys in the US should be getting an even better deal!!!
    This price drop in the UK seems to me to be only a relative drop related to exchange rates (rather than a pricing strategy). 1300 pounds is currently about 2300 dollars, so what seems to be a cheaper frame is only cheaper in relation to it's old cost in the UK, not an overall shift, no? All credit to Ellsworth for not stiffing UK customers by charging them the equivalent of 3000 dollars for a frame, but it doesn't seem related to a future pricing trend in the US at all.

  31. #31
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    thanks for the note dave. it's a fine line you have to tread isn't it? we bikers are such snobs that we want to be able to have people ooh and ahhh over our ride but certainly don't want everyone running out and buying the same thing. we don't want to spend any more than we have to but secretly enjoy that bug-eyed look people give us when they say, "you spent WHAT on that frame???"

    i'm a roadie as well and have a trek 5200. there are a bazillion of those things out there. that used to get on my nerves until i realized there's a reason for that. it's an awesome bike. well, that and a certain armstrong guy was on a commercial every four minutes riding a trek for a while.


    and kudos for joining an industry that you love. my team handles the largest account of our fortune 202 or so company (we'll see where we end up ) and i've been looking around for a job that allows me to market something that i find interesting. my current job pays the bills and gives me toy money but.......snore.
    Last edited by dewthedru; 02-02-2006 at 11:14 AM.

  32. #32
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    Something you should know

    btw, since when i western union a financial powerhouse?[/QUOTE]

    Western Union transferred over 30 Billion in funds last year and is expected to increase that this year. They are the predominant vehicle for transferring funds from the US, Canada, Etc ...to third world countries.

    You may not see a lot of activity here in the states, but just go to Jamaica and walk past any of their offices ( especially on fridays) and you will see long lines.

    Trust me...I know.

    YaMon.

  33. #33
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    Cheers for the info, Dave its good to have some more direct information flowing on MTBR e board, "welcome" and looking forward to the future devleopments sounds exciting.Any chance you guy's are coming to NZ for the worlds in Roto Vegas be good to see E down under!
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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    Hamilton,
    depends on whether you had just payed nearly 2k for your frame - I'd be devastated if I had - I personally take it as a price drop, a guy I ride with nearly cried when his wife asked why he had paid over the odds for his Moment after she'd seen the lower priced frame! Cant blame him! To me, Ellsworth are being more competative with the market and I'd buy another tomorrow if anything happened to mine.

    Dave@ellsworth,
    Nice to know that you and the guys at Ellsworth are taking an interest in all the posts - Thanks posting a reply - I'm sure that all the guys n gals on here appreciate it, Many Thanks.

  35. #35
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave@ellsworth
    I have worked for Tony for the last two years on the side to help him with things like the Warranty program and the sales and marketing direction. Dave
    so you're the guy that axed the lifetime on my frame

    just buggin'..... welcome aboard

    From my recent dealings with Ells, I can say with confidence that Dave and Paul are bringing back the custmer service, some of us older clients are used to
    Way to go dudes....keep up the great work, and good luck with your new ventures
    I Ride, I Know

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    Thanks again

    Thanks for the kind words. We have a ton of work to do but it is all turning out good. The warranty now makes sense to people and better than that we are making bikes that are much stronger. The Moment has not had a single warranty failure since its inception (knock on wood for me would you). The best thing is that we have a super strong crew now. Tony is designing and making bikes and Paul and I are trying to sell a few of them. The new facility has changed everything for the better. In fact I am heading up to visit the guys in Vancouver tomorrow. What still amazes most people is that only eight hands make every single frame. I think Paul and I both feel lucky to be part of this. Thanks again and a sincere thanks for riding an Ellsworth

  37. #37
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    good stuff folks... good stuff...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave@ellsworth
    Thanks for the kind words. We have a ton of work to do but it is all turning out good. The warranty now makes sense to people and better than that we are making bikes that are much stronger. The Moment has not had a single warranty failure since its inception (knock on wood for me would you). The best thing is that we have a super strong crew now. Tony is designing and making bikes and Paul and I are trying to sell a few of them. The new facility has changed everything for the better. In fact I am heading up to visit the guys in Vancouver tomorrow. What still amazes most people is that only eight hands make every single frame. I think Paul and I both feel lucky to be part of this. Thanks again and a sincere thanks for riding an Ellsworth
    feels like a bit of a pay off for all of us who endured bashing, spitting on, insults and other means of abuse by some members of this board...

    lets keep this communication open. it is a good feeling when as an owner, one is supported by the manufacturer not only through CSR but also in informal forums, like this one...

    it is all about passion... please keep supporting it... thanks...

  38. #38
    Time is not a road.
    Reputation: chad1433's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave@ellsworth
    The Moment has not had a single warranty failure since its inception (knock on wood for me would you).
    *knock* *knock*

    This is really positive news, especially considering I just got a new Moment...

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RockyRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave@ellsworth
    Thanks for the kind words. We have a ton of work to do but it is all turning out good. The warranty now makes sense to people and better than that we are making bikes that are much stronger. The Moment has not had a single warranty failure since its inception (knock on wood for me would you). The best thing is that we have a super strong crew now. Tony is designing and making bikes and Paul and I are trying to sell a few of them. The new facility has changed everything for the better. In fact I am heading up to visit the guys in Vancouver tomorrow. What still amazes most people is that only eight hands make every single frame. I think Paul and I both feel lucky to be part of this. Thanks again and a sincere thanks for riding an Ellsworth

    Dave you going to hit the Hazel Dell brew pub if you have time?? Hehe!!!

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