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Thread: 2006 moments

  1. #1
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    2006 moments

    Hi, dont know if anyone can help. Just spoke to UK importer Freeborn about the Moment and if they were selling the 2006 frames. He said theres no difference in 05 and 06. I'm sure Ive read in various places that there are subtle differences. If so I dont appreciate being lied to by someone I'm just about to spend 000's £ with. Any ideas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by richjar
    Hi, dont know if anyone can help. Just spoke to UK importer Freeborn about the Moment and if they were selling the 2006 frames. He said theres no difference in 05 and 06. I'm sure Ive read in various places that there are subtle differences. If so I dont appreciate being lied to by someone I'm just about to spend 000's £ with. Any ideas?

    I have a medium 06 on order and the only changes I was told were the asymmetrical chain stays, and apparently stronger seat tube pivot assembly... and a blue/black anodized paint option if you count that. I personally wish they had an option for similar paint to the streaking on the epiphany or Rogue, but oh well.

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    The catalogue on Ellsworth's website lists completely different geometry for the 06 moment; slacker head angle, longer top tube etc. Although I read somewhere on this board (I think it was a post by an E employee) that the geometry would be the same. I was however advised direct that the geometry is as per the catalogue.

    Additionally judging by the photos of the 06 I've seen the tubest is completely different; externally butted headtube, externally butted down tube. 06 frames will not be shot peened either.

    if the geometry doesnt change I will be a little pissed off as I would have probably held out for an 06, but I didnt want any slacker head angle than 69 degrees. All the same now I have my Moment it is that cool that I could not be more stoked!

    If it is true that the geometry is changing and your going on the reviews this bike has had so far, I'd jump in now, because the bike you buy later in 06 may ride completely different!

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    06

    I bought a 05 moment off Freeborn a couple of months back,was gonna wait for the 06 but said they wouldn't be available till April and I like the shot peened finish too

    Here's a pic of the 06,you can see the differences for yourself,


  5. #5
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    The tubing is definitely different for '06 and the frame is being produced in the new in-house facility. All the changes mentioned above are true. The asymmetrical chainstay is suppose to be stronger and has more tire clearance.

    All the 2006 frame parts are backward compatible with the older Moments.

    The 2006 geometry is the mystery. The published numbers suggest pretty big changes but the word from Ellsworth is that the geometry should be pretty much the same as 2005. My guess is that the angles can still be a work in process until the frame finally comes out.

    If the new specs are real (HT= 67.8, WB 43.5+), the new Moment will be more slack and longer than the Nomad! I just can't see that happening. The Nomad wanders more than the 2005 Moment on hills.
    Last edited by ahimanic; 01-25-2006 at 11:02 AM.

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    i have a print catalog that lists different geometry than the website, so i email ellsworth. here's the response. i can understand the print catalog having incorrect info. once it's printed and out the door it's done. but a website is an extremely easy thing to update. dunno why it was never done. in any case, from everything i've heard, geometry will be the same in 06.

    quoth david wisenteiner
    Here are the correct dimensions. We have
    had some proofing problems with the catalogue and website so here you go.

    Spec
    Moment 5" (15/17/19)
    Moment 6" (15/17/19)

    Head Angle
    69deg
    67.8deg


    Seat Angle
    73.5deg
    72.3deg


    BB height
    13.8"
    14.2"


    Top Tube length
    22.25/ 23.5/ 24.25
    22.4/ 23.7/ 24.5


    Wheelbase
    43.0/ 44.25/ 45.0
    43.5/ 44.7/ 45.5


    Stand over
    28.8"/ 28.8"/ 29"
    29.2"/ 29.2"/ 29.5"


    Chainstay:
    16.9"
    16.9"


    Head Tube Length
    4.0"/ 4.75"/ 5.0"
    4.0"/ 4.75"/ 5.0"


    Fork Length
    19.5"(495mm) Talas
    20.5"(520mm) Pike/Fox36


    Wheel Diamter
    26.6"
    26.6"


    Shock Length
    7.875" x 2.0"
    7.875" x 2.25"

  7. #7
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    I think the Ellsworth website currently has the 2005 specs for the Moment. You can find the link on the website for the pdf 2006 catalog and that probably matches your printed catalog.

    I have a pdf 2005 catalog and the spec for 2005 6" Moment are:

    HT/ST: 69/72 for all sizes
    WB: 41.5/42.5/43.5
    BB: 13.7" for all sizes
    Above are based on 125mm fork.

    If what David Wisenteiner said is true then the geometry has changed for 2006. How are they the same :

    HT/ST: 67.8/72.3 for all sizes
    WB: 43.5/44.7/45.5
    BB: 14.2" for all sizes

    The thing that I am uncertain is the fork used for 2006 measurements. He listed Pike or Fox 36 and they are 140 and 150mm travel, respectively. The 2005 was measured using a 125mm fork so that would steepen up the angles for the same given frame. I guess the frame angles can be the same but made different by measuring with a longer fork in 2006 but I don't know how to account for that effect.

    One thing is for sure, wheel base is damn long for 2006!

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    the 05 specs on both the website and the print catalog are incorrect. at least according to dw. what i posted are correct for 05 and also match the pdf spec for 06.

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    Fork Length
    19.5"(495mm) Talas
    20.5"(520mm) Pike/Fox36

    This measurement would change the HA and SA by one full degree and heighten both the BB and the Stand Over.

    Why don't they simply measure the frame static? Obviously, in relation to a horizontal drawn at the BB, there are certain angles that could be used. Everyone understands that changing suspension components changes these angles, but if we had a good base to start from, we'd understand how much we're changing things.

    Then again, I just fly by the seat of my pants anyway!

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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    the 05 specs on both the website and the print catalog are incorrect. at least according to dw. what i posted are correct for 05 and also match the pdf spec for 06.
    OK. I friggin give up! Can't trust anything.

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    Richjar,
    All the stuff I have read indicate there are changes - look at the picture above, you'll spot them yourself....as for the shop = make sure your not getting an "Older" frame, they are not the most reliable shop in the UK - but they are the only Ellsworth importers ( they supply All Terrain Cycles).

    Either way you wont be disappointed with your Moment!!

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    Am I missing something here

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    Shock Length
    7.875" x 2.0"
    7.875" x 2.25"
    The i2i for both shocks are the same at 7.875, why is there a difference in geometry between the 5" and the 6"? This does not make sense.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  13. #13
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    Ells seems to measure a lot of things sagged (including standover ). No one else does, but hey, what do they all know?
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

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    thanks everyone for their input. Seems that there are some differences, despite what freeborn say. I wish I could buy from someone else but theres no choice. I have to decide whether to go for the 2005 which is a great bike or hold out a couple of months for the 2006 I guess.....

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    All terrain cycles can also get ellsworths in the UK, however i think that they have to go through freeborn, but at least your not giving your money directly to freeborn!!

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    Can't wait

    Quote Originally Posted by neilenty
    All terrain cycles can also get ellsworths in the UK, however i think that they have to go through freeborn, but at least your not giving your money directly to freeborn!!
    Pick my Moment up from Freeborn next week. Everyone seems to think the current bike is excellent so I'm bound to be happy with it.

    I've only spoken to Freeborn twice and they seem ok - is their rep not that good?

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    ive heard a few things about them. when I went in the guy seemed fine, said they only had 3 left. When I phoned they said they had 'hundreds in stock', and that 'ellsworth arent like trek where they change the frames every year, so there are no differences between 05 and 06'.
    Maybe 05 is just as good or better, but I dont trust them now. Still the main thing is the bike I guess....

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    Quote Originally Posted by richjar
    ive heard a few things about them. when I went in the guy seemed fine, said they only had 3 left. When I phoned they said they had 'hundreds in stock', and that 'ellsworth arent like trek where they change the frames every year, so there are no differences between 05 and 06'.
    Maybe 05 is just as good or better, but I dont trust them now. Still the main thing is the bike I guess....
    well i've got my bike on order from the USA. The price is $2295, which is less than we pay here in the UK, after import tax, & shipping will save me some £££ - not much i know, but Freeborn is down south, and i'm up north so would have to ship the thing anyway!

    Also, when i enquired a while back - just after interbike, about the 2006 Truth & moment's they told me they had them in stock!! Can you believe that!!???

    WHAT A LIE

    So, that was it, no way i'm giving them 2 grand of my hard earned cash!!! Even if i have to pay the air fare and go to the States to get my bike! actually i'd fly to Canada on low cost airline, then road trip to the shop! then bike trip back to airport, can't think of a better adventure to break the new baby in!!!
    Last edited by neilenty; 01-26-2006 at 12:09 PM.

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    i did consider the US option but when they brought the price down to £1300 I didnt think it was worth it. I'd be interested to know how you get on - how much customs sting you for etc....sometimes you get lucky!

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    Quote Originally Posted by richjar
    i did consider the US option but when they brought the price down to £1300 I didnt think it was worth it. I'd be interested to know how you get on - how much customs sting you for etc....sometimes you get lucky!
    I'm also getting some extra freebies with the frame - headset, front & rear mech...

    Customs should be 5% as it's not a complete bike, but we'll see! i've allowed for 17.5% in my monetry calculations but then i guess i may get shafted by the "handeling duties" so....?

    I'll post when it's received..... just need to get an idea when they are going to be released.... can't handle all this waiting.... it's the 10th birthday of my current cannondale as of march. people still ask me if i got it for christmas it still looks superb - and it's red... and as per some of the other forum posts - i do not apply suncream to the paintwork!! just good old fairy liquid & a sponge & warm water! - which generally gets applied to me after the bike is clean - bike first me 2nd - priorities!
    Last edited by neilenty; 01-26-2006 at 12:15 PM.

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    you got the bike $300 off plus several hundred in freebies???

    !!!

    ???

  22. #22
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    That's our EU friends enjoying the weak $$$!

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    but it sounds like he's paying for it in dollars from a us shop.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldork
    but it sounds like he's paying for it in dollars from a us shop.
    Yeah, he does list it in US dollars. He's getting a heck of a deal! Better not tell Ellsworth where your getting it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    Yeah, he does list it in US dollars. He's getting a heck of a deal! Better not tell Ellsworth where your getting it!

    Yeah maybe i'm getting a good deal on the bike - UK customs will take their share, at least i'm paying my taxes and only taking advantage of our £ to the US$. however, how much do you guy's pay for Gas? we pay $1.60 per litre!!!! times that by how much you're using your motors and give a guy a break. Besides i'm only getting the deal due to me working for 2 years as a mountain bike instructor over in the USA!! Where, i might add i got paid very little - although job satisfaction was way up there! thanks - my rant is over now!

  26. #26
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    Sure, but you got all those fancy trains!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chad1433
    Sure, but you got all those fancy trains!

    maybe - but they aint cheap!!

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    I have the answer

    Get yourself a Turner RFX!!!!
    And if you have questions, chances are Dave Turner HIMSELF will pick up the phone or reply to you!
    Dillemma soved.

    Jdub
    Beer has food value. Food has no beer value.

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    Hey Richjar, I considered the importing from the USA but got told there was a chance I'd get stung with an " Import Duty " charge so decided against it! But you you do know that Freeborn sell Moment / Rogue frames for £1299?..........bad shop..........Great bikes! The guys there are helpful.....until they've had your money and you got a problem with your bike........If I was Tony E I'd look into the shops attitudes considering they are the only dealership in the UK - they are not a good advert for his bikes.

    But at the end of the day you are buying top dog bike which you will be proud of - which you should'nt have any problems with. Get one and put a big smile on your face!

  30. #30
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    Weight?

    So, what is the weight on the Moment? Is that with shock? Air or coil shock? I would like to believe the website, but given the state of the geometry specs, I'm not sure that is the right answer.

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    Moment 2005/6 Spec

    My "brand new " 17in moment frame arrived from Freeborn yesterday. Bit unhappy because I ordered the frame in good faith that it would be the up to date model. However, it has the circular not triangular rocker linkage, and it doesn't have the asymetric chainstay. I'm not too bothered by the chainstay, but it appears my frame is a 2004 spec, not even an 05 spec.
    What can I do ?
    John

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    Are you talking about the carbon support? I got my medium Moment from Freeborn at Xmas, it has the flatter triangular carbon support and the normal stays. You won't see the asymetric stays for a while yet. Your frame will be fine, that carbon shape change was just a tweak, other than that they are identical. When I visited Freeborn they had lots of Moment frames hanging around, you probably just got the frame that had your shock choice on. I got a DHX 5 coil which came with the newer carbon bit. I wouldn't worry about it, if it bugs you that much give them a ring.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickmc
    I bought a 05 moment off Freeborn a couple of months back,was gonna wait for the 06 but said they wouldn't be available till April and I like the shot peened finish too

    Here's a pic of the 06,you can see the differences for yourself,

    I was told this is the '07. That its due to arrive at the end of summer.

    Funny from the side it looks burly but if you look at it from above you can see how the tubes are skinnier than the -'05. Looked like a tamed and toned down Kona frame.

    Not likin it. Just my opinion.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by moment
    I was told this is the '07. That its due to arrive at the end of summer.

    Funny from the side it looks burly but if you look at it from above you can see how the tubes are skinnier than the -'05. Looked like a tamed and toned down Kona frame.

    Not likin it. Just my opinion.

    Yeah I agree, think I prefer the older tube profiles.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by moment
    I was told this is the '07. That its due to arrive at the end of summer.

    Funny from the side it looks burly but if you look at it from above you can see how the tubes are skinnier than the -'05. Looked like a tamed and toned down Kona frame.

    Not likin it. Just my opinion.
    I think because of the asymmetrical stays, they can be made smaller with the same strength. I noticed this same thing on the Epiphany. Looks light, but not so strong. Hopefully, they hold out.

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