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  1. #1
    humber river advocate
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    watershed tuesday

    the bugs where bad, but what the heck... a couple trees where down, and real slick...

    built a small gap reverse grade with a start of a pump section...

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  2. #2
    humber river advocate
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    another perspective...

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  3. #3
    humber river advocate
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    piled stones that where dug from the ground

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  4. #4
    bi-winning
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    another perspective...
    Nice work.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    another perspective...

    Nice little gap!

    Do features like this get washed out a lot? And need constant repairs?

  6. #6
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by akura View Post
    Nice little gap!

    Do features like this get washed out a lot? And need constant repairs?
    what you can't see is the cribing under the dirt, it holds everything together. plus i transplant ferns etc into the sides. by next year it will be well blended into the landscape
    and the roots will hold everything together. plus it drains better than flat ground. so to answer your questions, nope... but takes more effort/skill to build

    using this technique you can turn a boring flat section of singletrack into a really progressive section that is a blast to ride. an added benefit is that building these type of features also adds habitat that was displaced by the trail. which answers concerns from enviromentalists...
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  7. #7
    Evil Jr.
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    Is there a reason you would choose a gap over a table-top?

    We're about to start a section of our trail that will include some larger features but for the jumps, we're going with table-tops. Our reasoning is that it's harder to case a table-top and it can be ridden in both directions but I'd be glad to hear a counter-argument.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster View Post
    Is there a reason you would choose a gap over a table-top?

    We're about to start a section of our trail that will include some larger features but for the jumps, we're going with table-tops. Our reasoning is that it's harder to case a table-top and it can be ridden in both directions but I'd be glad to hear a counter-argument.
    The easy argument is that some features are meant to require a higher level of commitment than others. Some bridges are right on the ground, some a foot in the air, some five feet in the air.

    But another explanation is possible. Some features exist as “gates” or “filters” to warn folks away from a section that requires a minimum skill set (You made a similar argument about a feature in Crothers Woods, IIRC). The trouble with a tabletop is that some people will ride up it, across the top, and down it, rounding the lips and ruining the take-off. Further into the pump section, the same folks may cause other improper wear and tear on the humps, jumps, berms and so on.

    The gap sets a very clear standard for the section: If you are not comfortable launching across this, what follows may not be appropriate for you at this time. It sends a message that the pump section was designed to be ridden at a certain speed.

    If there is a double later in the section or a tabletop, presumably anyone who cleared the gap will recognize that the double and tabletop are designed to be cleared as well.

    JM2C, I didn’t build it.

  9. #9
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    "what you can't see is the cribing under the dirt, it holds everything together. plus i transplant ferns etc into the sides. by next year it will be well blended into the landscape"

    Can you explain or let me know where I can read up on this technique of building. I would like to begin putting in some small features here and there. I think I would go with a table top design as the feature I am thinking of, would be going where people walk as well. Any help would be appreciated.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by secret agent View Post
    I think I would go with a table top design as the feature I am thinking of, would be going where people walk as well. Any help would be appreciated.
    Is it your thought that people would walk up, across, and down the same table top that riders would use to launch over? How tall will thsi feature be and hat grade(s) do you plan to use? If they are steep, I wonder if hikers will cut footholds into your feature the moment it rains.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    what you can't see is the cribing under the dirt, it holds everything together. plus i transplant ferns etc into the sides. by next year it will be well blended into the landscape
    and the roots will hold everything together. plus it drains better than flat ground. so to answer your questions, nope... but takes more effort/skill to build

    using this technique you can turn a boring flat section of singletrack into a really progressive section that is a blast to ride. an added benefit is that building these type of features also adds habitat that was displaced by the trail. which answers concerns from enviromentalists...
    how does one use selective habitat-less harvesting of stone/soil/dead fall....(from an enviromentalist view) to build? transplating ferns from there natural habitat to your man made TTF doesnt answer the Enviro concern, creates them....but if you did so to camoflage from trail nazis....then your onto something!
    if the 'pro MTB' enviromentalist concern was that there isnt enough TTF's, then yes youve solved it.....


    anywho.....nice work!
    hitting that from the lower side, step up to a manual would be fun....

  12. #12
    Evil Jr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by secret agent View Post
    "what you can't see is the cribing under the dirt, it holds everything together. plus i transplant ferns etc into the sides. by next year it will be well blended into the landscape"

    Can you explain or let me know where I can read up on this technique of building. I would like to begin putting in some small features here and there. I think I would go with a table top design as the feature I am thinking of, would be going where people walk as well. Any help would be appreciated.
    Although I can't say exactly what lies underneath SS's jump, cribbing in general involves building a structure (typically out of rot-resistant wood like cedar), filling it with dense stuff like stone and then "icing" the whole thing with dirt as you would a cake. Built right, it takes a lot of work but it can last a really long time.

    Here's a pic of what a "naked" crib looks like:

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  13. #13
    humber river advocate
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    very well said, hit all the points. i would also add that it makes it harder for atv's to vandalize.

    Quote Originally Posted by raganwald View Post
    The easy argument is that some features are meant to require a higher level of commitment than others. Some bridges are right on the ground, some a foot in the air, some five feet in the air.

    But another explanation is possible. Some features exist as “gates” or “filters” to warn folks away from a section that requires a minimum skill set (You made a similar argument about a feature in Crothers Woods, IIRC). The trouble with a tabletop is that some people will ride up it, across the top, and down it, rounding the lips and ruining the take-off. Further into the pump section, the same folks may cause other improper wear and tear on the humps, jumps, berms and so on.

    The gap sets a very clear standard for the section: If you are not comfortable launching across this, what follows may not be appropriate for you at this time. It sends a message that the pump section was designed to be ridden at a certain speed.

    If there is a double later in the section or a tabletop, presumably anyone who cleared the gap will recognize that the double and tabletop are designed to be cleared as well.

    JM2C, I didn’t build it.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    an added benefit is that building these type of features also adds habitat that was displaced by the trail. which answers concerns from enviromentalists...
    What?

    Please explain further.

  15. #15
    Evil Jr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    very well said, hit all the points. i would also add that it makes it harder for atv's to vandalize.
    Makes perfect sense. On the particular trail we'll be building, the table tops will be the biggest feature so no need for a gate.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by secret agent View Post
    "what you can't see is the cribing under the dirt, it holds everything together. plus i transplant ferns etc into the sides. by next year it will be well blended into the landscape"

    Can you explain or let me know where I can read up on this technique of building. I would like to begin putting in some small features here and there. I think I would go with a table top design as the feature I am thinking of, would be going where people walk as well. Any help would be appreciated.
    it's a technique i've come up with over the years... though i'm sure it's been done elsewhere. everything rots around here, even cedar. plus dead fall cedar is hard to get ahold of sometimes. so i crib with whatever wood is handy. don't have to nail it, sometimes i use bailing wire i get from the scrap metal bin to hold the logs together. build/crib the feature the rough shape you want. don't worry if it looks ugly or that the logs are not perfect. once you got your rough shape you start filling it with dirt and rocks. sometimes i throw in cut logs. just make sure you have no air spaces and you pack the dirt as you go. once you get the rough shape with dirt, start forming the shape you want with a rake while still packing it down. those rocks i saved i will add to the lip. you might have to reshape it once or twice, really depends on your soil conditions. remember those cribing logs buried, it's acting as a fungus nursery. the mycelia helps stick everything together and makes the mound a very fertiles spot for the transplated ferns, etc. as those logs rot, more and more root networks develop sticking everything together...
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  17. #17
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    What?

    Please explain further.
    i'll answer both questions at the same time...

    the mound acts like a nursery log if my techniques are followed.
    Nurse log - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    dead fall rotting on the ground should be left alone since there is more then enough dead wood hanging etc. the act of transplanting is a sound wood lot management technique and not harmful to a wide varitey of plants. in most cases it will encourage growth.

    the trail thread surface is not considered habitat, where the mound sides are. you can add square footage of habitat on the sloped sides of the mound that was displaced by the trail thread surface. similar thinking is used in sloped green roofs.
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  18. #18
    Evil Jr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    the act of transplanting is a sound wood lot management technique and not harmful to a wide varitey of plants. in most cases it will encourage growth.
    We use the same technique to disguise some of the patches dirt we broadcast during benching in areas with limited duff. Mrs. Monster is a deft fern transplanter and the finished product can look awesome in just a few weeks!
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    i'll answer both questions at the same time...

    the mound acts like a nursery log if my techniques are followed.
    Nurse log - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    dead fall rotting on the ground should be left alone since there is more then enough dead wood hanging etc. the act of transplanting is a sound wood lot management technique and not harmful to a wide varitey of plants. in most cases it will encourage growth.

    the trail thread surface is not considered habitat, where the mound sides are. you can add square footage of habitat on the sloped sides of the mound that was displaced by the trail thread surface. similar thinking is used in sloped green roofs.

    good response....

    but what about the soil and rock that has been displaced during the build process? are there large trenches next to the trail created because of soil and rock removal? with gravel, stone, soil, roots, vegetation ect...removed, the stability compromised....unnatural erosion, standing water traps and such there might still be many concerns from the enviromentalist......

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhpunk~ View Post
    still be many concerns from the enviromentalist......
    Exactly.



    DNV (municipal funded) trail crew building a new berm on Bobsled.

  21. #21
    humber river advocate
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    is that in eastern canada?
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  22. #22
    humber river advocate
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    anyway check out some properties for sale...



    a fire mushroom...



    the launch...



    the landing...



    current scale rc miniature project...

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  23. #23
    namagomi
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    the launch...


    Get ready!



    I also found some bonus trails w/ impressive launch at local super-secret trail... interesting!

    Trail gnomes have been busy. (There are no alternate lines so)

  24. #24
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhpunk~ View Post
    good response....

    but what about the soil and rock that has been displaced during the build process? are there large trenches next to the trail created because of soil and rock removal? with gravel, stone, soil, roots, vegetation ect...removed, the stability compromised....unnatural erosion, standing water traps and such there might still be many concerns from the enviromentalist......
    you don't dig down into the root zone... you find sources of muck around up turned trees otherwise know as "bells" all rocks recovered will be turned into amphibian habitat (toad and tree frog)...

    Toads and Frogs of Ontario - Amphibians and reptiles of Ontario
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    Get ready!


    I also found some bonus trails w/ impressive launch at local super-secret trail... interesting!

    Trail gnomes have been busy. (There are no alternate lines so)

    all hail the trail gnomes!

    <iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tdkVOyRKHcA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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  26. #26
    Evil Jr.
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    Now this is a perfect example of a FANTASTIC thread. It has everything: pics, useful information, banter and music.

    MOAR like this plz!

    <iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UKn7NhV5QUA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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  27. #27
    humber river advocate
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    new project on the go... the stealth bike...

    here is the heart of the project:

    Holmes Hobbies LLC / Holmes Bikes :: Bike / MoPed :: Puma Geared Hubmotor
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  28. #28
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    Stealth? Or lazy?

    Is breathing louder than an electric hub?

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