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  1. #1
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    Waterdown Trails map

    Does anyone have a trail map of the Waterdown (ON) trail network and would you please post/link it on this thread? I am thinking some of you riders out there with GPS systems may have something, but any other source would be great too ... even if it's a partial map ... at least it would be a start.

    Thanks.

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    I'm not sure, but I THINK I recall hearing that the bike shop in Waterdown MIGHT have a trail map available...it's worth a try in there to see if you can pick one up.

    Honestly tho, it is pretty damn hard to get lost in Waterdown, unless you're trying. If you park off of Hwy 5, it is a pretty safe bet that uphill is always the way home, what with it being on the NIagara Escarpment and all. I heard a lot of horror stories about how easy it was to get lost...I dunno, maybe I'm just good with my sense of direction, but I knew exactly which way I was facing, and which way I needed to go to get home in the end.

    I haven't ridden there in years, although I am meaning to get back there soon. They were always a great bunch of trails...and I'm sure there is a bunch of stuff that I never ever found too...went on one group ride in there and rode trails I never found...although I never ventured that far out either.....

    Tim

  3. #3
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    i live in waterdown and ride the trails 2-3 times a week!! theres many entrances and many routes you can take. i suppose its reasonable that someone could get lost though. you can ride for a couple hours and not ride the same loop. you can also get on the bruce via the trails also and end up really far from where you started.

    i dont have any maps though, there is a bike shop in town called bicycle works that might have some though. they run weekly group rides on tuesdays also if you'd like to get into the trails with experianced people!

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    i dont know if its the same, but Kerncliff Park in google maps satellite?

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    Thanks guys ... good suggestion about the bike shop ... I can start there. What I'm basically trying to do is either find, or put together a map for personal use, but I can't afford a GPS, or I would have done it already. I never had a problem finding my way out of there (yes, the escarpment helps) ... the thing is that I don't go there often enough to remember any particular flow to this convoluted trail and find myself stopping too many times to orientate. Occasionally, I also find I am going against what appears to be the natural flow of the trail. If I could see how all the sections link together, I could map out a course and enjoy a nice flowing ride with a lot less breaks/interruptions.

    pat2k8, I was referring to the area between Snake Rd and Dundas St E. I am not familiar with the Kerncliffe Park area ... are there any trails worth exploring there? What are they like (i.e. which local area trails would you compare them too)?

  6. #6
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    where do you enter the trails from? i dont really pay attention to trail markings but i know there is a green trail that is basically between dundas and snake rd. the white trail will get you on the bruce and way far from home. and there is a "main trail" which the entrance is marked on a tree sign, but i dont think its actually marked. its best to just ride randomly and go different ways, the only area i dont care much for is when you start getting close to hwy6 cause the trails themselves are kinda over grown and the open ones are deeply rutted from atv's

  7. #7
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    Usually I enter at Rockcliffe Rd (top of escarpment). Twice in the past I entered by the little waterfall on Mill St, but I never managed to connect with the trails on the west side of Snake road.

    Every time I've gone to Waterdown I pretty much rode randomly! I was hoping to change that with a map. The few signs I have seen on the trail were rather meaningless ... I just ignored them. The white stripe trail marking is good, but that is only for the Bruce Trail (I think) which is only a small part of the network there.

  8. #8
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    sorry, not familiar with these trails. I am curious to ride them and thought I might help find *something* on google maps........

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan
    Usually I enter at Rockcliffe Rd (top of escarpment). Twice in the past I entered by the little waterfall on Mill St, but I never managed to connect with the trails on the west side of Snake road.

    Every time I've gone to Waterdown I pretty much rode randomly! I was hoping to change that with a map. The few signs I have seen on the trail were rather meaningless ... I just ignored them. The white stripe trail marking is good, but that is only for the Bruce Trail (I think) which is only a small part of the network there.
    I too usually start at Rockcliffe Rd, and find my way to the heart of the trails easier from there. If you don't ride there very often, you will get lost. Many of the trails now have multiple intersections and random extensions going nowhere. A trail system gone out of control ! Whatever map is published is now useless.

    Just ride and enjoy, keeping your eye on a compass or the sun. To get out, ride (and walk) northeast. Hit the railway tracks, turn around and go back north or east. Don't ride on the white blazed trail too long.
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  10. #10
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    google maps wont give much since most of the area has tree cover etc. also bicycle works doesn't have any maps :P i went there today on other business.

    you'd think the trail entrance by the waterfall on mill st would connect to the other ones but can't say i've found a way, i hardly ever enter from there though cause i like to bike to the trails and thats the other side of town for me

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    Thanks for the feedback guys. Ricksom, you said it best ... "a trail system gone out of control!" It's a shame the local bike shop doesn't try to do anything about this trail, especially if they organize group rides there. One can tell the trails get their fair share of use and surely there's enough choice there to set up something nice ... even just a few signs to designate a main loop would be a good start.

  12. #12
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    work is done on the trails but there isn't a large enough population base to really make the trails user friendly to new people. its just small town etiquette though, nobody here wants to see 100's of bikes all over the trails conjesting and eventually ruining them like other places

  13. #13
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    I've been to waterdown a couple of times, I enter at rockcliffe ,took about 2 hours to ride and expolore the area. It was a little confusing lots of trails all over the place, I went to a bike shop in town and asked about a map but they told me they don't have them anymore.
    I'll be going back there some time to explore the area some more and see if I can find some trails that I have not ridden yet.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan
    Does anyone have a trail map of the Waterdown (ON) trail network and would you please post/link it on this thread? I am thinking some of you riders out there with GPS systems may have something, but any other source would be great too ... even if it's a partial map ... at least it would be a start.

    Thanks.
    I think there is a map in Rider Mels Mtn Bike Guide to Ont and I just went to confirm that but I can't find my copy - arg.

  15. #15
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    For what it's worth, the Rockliffe entrance now has a "no bicycles" sign and there's also no parking on that street.

  16. #16
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    I was there last saturady and I did not see any "no bicycle" signs. There is a small parking lot there ,so no need to park on the street.

  17. #17
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    can't say i've ever seen no bicycles signs anywhere, just the usual riding bicycles is a privalige not a right, and respect other trails users signs. theres enough parking at rockcliff for 5-6 cars though.

  18. #18
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    theres definately no "No bicycles" signs anywhere around the rockcliff entrance. i went there this morning and read every sign they do have just to be sure since i never actually look at em.

    all i saw were no parking signs on the street, a no dumping sign, and the main trail sign board that had a no motor bikes, the respect private property/ cyclists being respectful, general trail etiquite (sp), trails close at dusk, and there was another sign on the main board i can't think of atm.

    today i got a flat and had to walk almost an hour out and to my house which is only a 5 minute ride from the entrance

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2WD
    I think there is a map in Rider Mels Mtn Bike Guide to Ont and I just went to confirm that but I can't find my copy - arg.
    yay...found it..ya - it's on page 34 and a description of the area is on page 35 (of the old edition) It's a great reference - when you can find it that is

    http://www.ontariotrailguide.com/main.html

  20. #20
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    Are there any man made stuff left on the trails We went there today and we could not find any we did not go south of the tracks

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artin Aga
    Are there any man made stuff left on the trails We went there today and we could not find any we did not go south of the tracks
    they are south of the tracks
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  22. #22
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    Last time I went there (early September), all of the man made stunts south of the tracks were in terrible shape and left to rot ... there were a couple that were still rideable, but the majority did not look safe at all. Unless they have been fixed I would not recommend going there if your aim is to ride those stunts ... it would be a waste of time. However, on the far west side of the trail there were a few nicely built dirt jumps, ladder bridges and drops, but be careful, they're not for everyone.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAMTBER
    they are south of the tracks
    We tried to get south of the tracks could not find an entrance
    all we found was some atv tracks that went into an open field and ended up behind some houses
    where is the entrance ?? do we get in from the west end or the east ??

    Here is a pic of the area see if you can guide me to where we can find the shore stuff
    Thanks for your help in advance Cheers
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    Last edited by Artin Aga; 11-05-2007 at 08:32 AM.

  24. #24
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    theres at least 5-6 maybe more places where the trail crosses the tracks, most will get you were you wanna be. but like someone posted above most of the wooden stuff hasn't been fixed or worked on for 5 or more years. although a group of people did build some new stuff in july/august. its nice but if thats all your going for you'll be bored in 20 mins.

  25. #25
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    Our Aim was to find them and see what was in there I always love checking out Ewok stuff
    my ride group is mostly 35-- 45 year old experianced Bikers we wont b doing anything over our heads
    So the entrance is someware bellow the Rock quary ???

  26. #26
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    hrmm well if your between the rail tracks and snake road its hard to miss, theres some up the semi nasty climb and some at the bottom too. the trails in general are kinda tricky this time of year with all the leaves around

  27. #27
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    I usually enter at Rockcliffe Rd. The stunts are in the general areas circled in red (this is where a trail map would have come in handy).

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan
    I usually enter at Rockcliffe Rd. The stunts are in the general areas circled in red (this is where a trail map would have come in handy).

    What circled in red ??

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artin Aga
    What circled in red ??
    Sorry Aga ... had problems uploading the picture ... I'll try again now.
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  30. #30
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    Thanks Guys that was so close to where we were had we just gone a little further in we would have been there

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    Quote Originally Posted by Artin Aga
    Thanks Guys that was so close to where we were had we just gone a little further in we would have been there
    No problem Aga ... I have a favour to ask in return. Since you ride in a group of "mostly 35--45 year old experianced Bikers", I am thinking there is a higher likelihood that one of you might be the proud owner of a GPS. If that is correct, would you be able to use it there and post the resulting map on this thread? That was the original intent of this thread and it would be greatly appreciated.

  32. #32
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    I wish I tried to use my old hend held Lowren but I could not figure it out so we left it in the car
    I think my brother will get a new Garmin soon I will try

  33. #33
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    I've done this trail a few times as it's close to home. I've posted a trail review with a partial GPS tracklog that's available for viewing / download.

    Check out trailpeak: http://www.trailpeak.com/trail-Water...milton-ON-3262

    Keep on riding!
    Mark

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by markiem7232
    I've done this trail a few times as it's close to home. I've posted a trail review with a partial GPS tracklog that's available for viewing / download.

    Check out trailpeak: http://www.trailpeak.com/trail-Water...milton-ON-3262

    Keep on riding!
    Mark
    I currently am living less than 20km from these trails, yet I have never ridden there. Maybe this year i will change that. Since have not had a car, the 40km of road riding makes it a pretty long round trip, and since i don't usually have a lot of free time during the school year, i have never made it out quite that far.
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    If you're looking to go, I know the HSR has their bike racks on the buses, if you trusted them to hold them on you could ride a bus to within 5 k of the trails...and they are pretty decent riding. Went on one ride with guys from MTBR... geeze, has to be back in probably '01ish that were more local than I was, and saw more of the trails than my wife and I had the entire summer. Nice place, almost impossible to get (really) lost, as you've got major streets on four sides...plus the escarpment for direction finding...so a great bunch of trails.

    The ride there and back isn't too bad as well, mostly flat, esp. if you enter in off of Snake Road. Still a heck of a ride to get to the trails, but it is do-able without expending any great energy...and if you bus it (as cheesy as It seems taking the bus w/your bike hehe) as I said, even better.

    ....oh the joys of not driving eh?

    Tim

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullycanpara
    If you're looking to go, I know the HSR has their bike racks on the buses, if you trusted them to hold them on you could ride a bus to within 5 k of the trails...and they are pretty decent riding. Went on one ride with guys from MTBR... geeze, has to be back in probably '01ish that were more local than I was, and saw more of the trails than my wife and I had the entire summer. Nice place, almost impossible to get (really) lost, as you've got major streets on four sides...plus the escarpment for direction finding...so a great bunch of trails.

    The ride there and back isn't too bad as well, mostly flat, esp. if you enter in off of Snake Road. Still a heck of a ride to get to the trails, but it is do-able without expending any great energy...and if you bus it (as cheesy as It seems taking the bus w/your bike hehe) as I said, even better.

    ....oh the joys of not driving eh?

    Tim
    I never even thought of taking the bus. Funny thing is though, if the bus makes a lot of stops, you can get there almost as fast by pedaling. Going back, up the escarpment is a different story. Maybe ride there, and take bus back?
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  37. #37
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    ok I didn't fully read all the posts but here goes.

    Trial maps are available from a guy in town that makes them. sorry but I don't know his/her name or where they are just remember someone telling me.

    Man made stuff. Last time I was there the stuff south of the tracks was all there. some in rough shape some ok. There was also a few guys that I know making new stuff around one of the areas that also had stuff. It was on the hill where some one had make a few up and down triangle shape boards. (sorry don't know the techy name for them.) for riding on and then a about 20' of raised catwalks. they extended it about 50-60 longer and they wheren't done when I left. looked like it would be fun if you where into that riding that.

    hope some that helps tho its all pretty vage.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by markiem7232
    I've done this trail a few times as it's close to home. I've posted a trail review with a partial GPS tracklog that's available for viewing / download.

    Check out trailpeak: http://www.trailpeak.com/trail-Water...milton-ON-3262

    Keep on riding!
    Mark
    Mark, thanks for resurfacing the thread with that GPS map. I have a few questions though ...

    1) Was your entry point at Grindstone Way (top, or bottom one)?
    2) Did you follow a planned route (more or less), or did you just go exploring here and there?
    3) Would you be able to post an edit of that GPS map with some directional arrows so we could get an idea of your flow?

    I know the 3rd question may be asking too much, but if you have the time it would be a lot of help.

    Thanks.

  39. #39
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    Waterdown

    I hope this works...had to really shrink the file...
    PM me with your email and I'll send it that way..
    Cheers
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    Last edited by smiley; 02-08-2008 at 05:33 PM.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by markiem7232
    I've done this trail a few times as it's close to home. I've posted a trail review with a partial GPS tracklog that's available for viewing / download.

    Check out trailpeak: http://www.trailpeak.com/trail-Water...milton-ON-3262

    Keep on riding!
    Mark
    Mark, I'm thinking about getting a GPS as well, but am not sure what to get.
    I want to be able to display maps (duh), track where I've been, and upload trips to my computer / web.
    What GPS are you using and how do you like it ?

    Thanks !

    Rob.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan
    Mark, thanks for resurfacing the thread with that GPS map. I have a few questions though ...

    1) Was your entry point at Grindstone Way (top, or bottom one)?
    2) Did you follow a planned route (more or less), or did you just go exploring here and there?
    3) Would you be able to post an edit of that GPS map with some directional arrows so we could get an idea of your flow?

    I know the 3rd question may be asking too much, but if you have the time it would be a lot of help.

    Thanks.
    Not exactly sure what spot I entered on that particular trip - probably the top one. I didn't follow any planned route - just exploring wherever the path took me. I've gathered tracklogs from two rides there - they are both quite different as I've tried to take unfamiliar trails. The best thing about having the GPS is you can revisit places you've found to be challenging and stuff.
    I have a couple of kml files that can be viewed with GoogleEarth that cover a lot of the trails at Waterdown. For those interested, email me at markie302$gmail.com. (Substitute the $ with the @ sign to email - just trying to throw off the automated spammers) I'll send you both the kml files I have. You can then open GoogleEarth and the select File, Open and select the kml file. You'll get the added bonus of seeing the waypoints marked out showing any special features of the ride (ie: train tracks, ramps and stuff)

    Mark

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    If you'd like to have the GPS tracklog for this trail, please email me at markie302$gmail.com. (Substitute the $ with the @ sign to email - just trying to throw off the automated spammers)

    I'll send ya two kml files that I have. You can then open GoogleEarth and the select File, Open and select the kml file. You'll get the added bonus of seeing the waypoints marked out showing any special features of the ride (ie: train tracks, ramps and stuff) If you have a GPS, you can edit the kml files with your GPS editor program and then save them on your GPS for your ride.

    Seeya at Waterdown when the snow is gone...
    Mark

  43. #43
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    This is one of the crapiest trail maps I've seen but it's better than nothing. It's from the "Rider Mels MTB guide to Ontario" the 2003 Edition. The "P" at the top center is the parking lot on Rockcliffe in Waterdown; perfect for about 3-4 cars.

    If you want a full size copy of this "thing" just send me a PM with your e-mail address. I
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagpipes
    ...
    If you want a full size copy of this "thing" just send me a PM with your e-mail address. I
    Hey bagpipes, I PM'd you with my e-mail address.

    Mark, thanks for the kml files. If I eventually piece together a decent map I will definitely make it available on the forum here, and if we ever happen to meet up at Waterdown maybe we'll put that GPS to good use.

    Thanks,
    Bogdan

  45. #45
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    Just got your message now, went out for a nice forest snow ride last night in the storm and got home late, I'll send it tonight after "work".

    Anyone else need a copy?

    I have a Garmin 305 and the Memory Map software just showed up on Monday so If I can figure out how to make everything work together (and make it out to Waterdown in the early spring) I should have a sweet-a$$ Topo map with contours, elevation etc that I can share. This software also does a 3D "Fly-through" so you can see your routes or create routes in 3D, move through the route, up / down the climbs and decents overlayed on a proper Topo map with all the applicable data. I'm very pumped about getting it set up!!!!!!
    There are no "mistakes"; only learning curves.

  46. #46
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    Did not receive the Waterdown Trail map

    Quote Originally Posted by bagpipes
    Just got your message now, went out for a nice forest snow ride last night in the storm and got home late, I'll send it tonight after "work".

    Anyone else need a copy?

    I have a Garmin 305 and the Memory Map software just showed up on Monday so If I can figure out how to make everything work together (and make it out to Waterdown in the early spring) I should have a sweet-a$$ Topo map with contours, elevation etc that I can share. This software also does a 3D "Fly-through" so you can see your routes or create routes in 3D, move through the route, up / down the climbs and decents overlayed on a proper Topo map with all the applicable data. I'm very pumped about getting it set up!!!!!!
    Hey bagpipes ... I never got that map file you were going to send me ... not sure if you forgot, or if you had trouble sending it, so I thought I'd ask one more time. I also PM'd you with my email address again.

    Thanks,
    Bogdan

  47. #47
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    Yep I forgot, very sorry. It's been sent now.
    There are no "mistakes"; only learning curves.

  48. #48
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    You are taking some liberties (and breaking the law)

    Hey dude, what makes you think it is okay to freely offer to violate copyright laws to send people a copy of my map? Did I do something to piss you off? The "crappy" map (note the correct spelling with two p's) is actually done with GPS. I'd agree that it isn't going to be great to help you know exactly where you are at every point. That is more a result of the trail system with countless little off-shoots and spurs. It still should help provide overall orientation. In any case, it is not cool to blatantly offer to send it to anyone who PMs you.

    Mel

  49. #49
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    Dude you are absolutely correct. I pulled this map off the net last summer but neglected to notice the little "c" at the bottom before I stuck up here. Of all the other maps I've pulled off the net, none of them have a copyright marking including some others of yours.

    On the other hand, I'm not the guy copying maps so perhaps you can ask first before making insinuations over a forum. As for sharing maps, I have no issue with sharing them but I do make an effort not to send files that are marked with a copyright stamp. This one slipped past me and I'm man enough to acknowledge that, but for whatever reason I can't "edit" the posting to remove it. Do these postings have an expiry for editing?

    In the meantime, I'll be sure that no more pass through to other people. However, anything I have without copyright will still be shared.
    There are no "mistakes"; only learning curves.

  50. #50
    bi-winning
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagpipes
    for whatever reason I can't "edit" the posting to remove it. Do these postings have an expiry for editing?
    Yup, they only give you so long to edit posts. I don't know how long, but it is at least a couple days.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  51. #51
    sock puppet
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    hey mel

    are you selling your maps? how much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rider Mel
    Hey dude, what makes you think it is okay to freely offer to violate copyright laws to send people a copy of my map? Did I do something to piss you off? The "crappy" map (note the correct spelling with two p's) is actually done with GPS. I'd agree that it isn't going to be great to help you know exactly where you are at every point. That is more a result of the trail system with countless little off-shoots and spurs. It still should help provide overall orientation. In any case, it is not cool to blatantly offer to send it to anyone who PMs you.

    Mel

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    are you selling your maps? how much?
    You can pick up the book with many more maps of Ontario trails from your local bike shop for a mere $20.

  53. #53
    2WD
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    are you selling your maps? how much?

    Earlier in this thread I referenced Rider Mel's website for purchasing his books online (#19).

  54. #54
    sock puppet
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    i'll make sure i don't buy any,,

    after this BS about distributing his maps among MTB family for free... as well as my riding buddies...

    a map or two that is shared between people should not hurt the multimillion sales of his books...


    Quote Originally Posted by 2WD
    Earlier in this thread I referenced Rider Mel's website for purchasing his books online (#19).

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    after this BS about distributing his maps among MTB family for free... as well as my riding buddies...

    a map or two that is shared between people should not hurt the multimillion sales of his books...
    First the maps are copyrighted. It is illegal to distribute them if you don't have the copyrighted holders permission.

    Second, Mel's price is cheap considering the number of maps you get in one nice book.

    Third, by not buying them, the author(s) of these maps may no longer be inclined to produce/update them anymore. You and your buddies would then have to produce your own maps.

    However, I prefer it when the trail maintainers produce their own maps and provide it on their website, but that is not always the case.

  56. #56
    sock puppet
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    the earth was spinning around the sun

    even before Mel's book, so i suspect we'll be in good shape either way...

    as i said in my post, a map or two that were distributed without malicious intent wouldn't have hurt the sales of the book... i didnt like the tone of his post.

    but, the copyright is copyright and it is his right to do what he did...

    it is my right to spend my money the way i feel is fair...


    Quote Originally Posted by notnormal
    First the maps are copyrighted. It is illegal to distribute them if you don't have the copyrighted holders permission.

    Second, Mel's price is cheap considering the number of maps you get in one nice book.

    Third, by not buying them, the author(s) of these maps may no longer be inclined to produce/update them anymore. You and your buddies would then have to produce your own maps.

    However, I prefer it when the trail maintainers produce their own maps and provide it on their website, but that is not always the case.

  57. #57
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    I'll toss in my 2 cents here sine I'm the one who posted that map of Mels in error.

    Copyright maps, text or anything should not be shared other than loaning it to your friends for their enjoyment much like you would loan a book or a CD. If you paid for it, you can loan it out but reproduce and distribute. To copy and distribute is illegal period. That map I posted was downloaded from MTBR last summer from another thread by someone who possibly got elsewhere, the possibilities are endless however; I never noticed the copyright symbol at the bottom until it was pointed out to me yesterday. I have many other maps that are not under copyright so I can share those with whomever without any issue but this one will not be offered.

    For the people who are downloading, try to have a look for that little "c" somewhere before you do so. For those of you who find your items in places they shouldn't be, have a little tact and ask some questions before assuming people are "freely violating copyright laws". That's a pretty harsh accusation. For a quick lesson in law, where there is no intent, there is no offence. I'm not about to hand over my career over a trail map.

    Lastly, can anyone tell me how to get that map removed after the editing option has expired?
    There are no "mistakes"; only learning curves.

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