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  1. #1
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    Ugh, what next?

    Ugh, that was a weird night.

    So I had ordered a new fork earlier this week, and yesterday I got an email that lets me know I can get the fork installed before my ride (previously I was going to go after my ride and get it installed), so I'm thinking great I'll get to use it the whole weekend. But then when I go to have it installed we (Me and Peter from Misfits Cycles) find that I don't have the correct mount for my disk brakes to fit on the new fork. So we prep the fork so its ready to go once I get the mount, and re-install the old fork so that I can still ride while waiting for the mount.

    So once thats done I'm trying to decide if I should head to Albion and ride, or head back to my house and check the cyclepath (LBS) for the parts I needed. I choose to go have fun and ride. This might not have been the best choice as it turns out.

    The trails where fairly wet, the open sections of the trial just seemed to be sticky and not too bad, but in the singletrack there were puddles and it was pretty slippery. Down I go, only maybe 15 min into my ride, and now I have a nice bruse right in the middle of my forehead.. YAY!

    I wasn't really hurt or anything so I kept riding for a while, I figured I'll keep to sections that are a little easier, and take it easy. I rode for less then an hour and ended up by the beach area and started heading towards the chalet, thinking I might get another little section in before packing up, but then *TWANG* a spoke brakes on my back wheel.

    Look at my watch, its about 7:45 maybe a little later, I'm not sure when the cyclepath closes, so I pack up and head home, only to find I'm 20 - 30 min too late and they are closed. Now I got a new fork, No Brake Mount, Bruised Forehead, Broken Wheel, and since my wife went away for the weekend all the time in the world to ride. PRICELESS!

  2. #2
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    crappy day.
    if the wheel isn't out of round you can still ride it.
    Mike
    Toronto, Canada
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MS MSP
    crappy day.
    if the wheel isn't out of round you can still ride it.
    I guess thats true, but wouldn't it make it warp easier?
    I got the wheel with me and I'm going to see if I can get it fixed tonight. I might be able to get them to do it quick since its only been 2 rides since I had a spoke replaced in that same wheel. I guess it might be a good idea to have the wheel relaced completely, if this is going to continue.

  4. #4
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    Did that spoke break right at the bend where it exits the hub? Depending on the wheel and if it was machine built or hand made (hand made usually are better tensioned) you might want to check all the spokes and see if any feel overly loose. Often low tension allows the spoke to move around at the hub causing the spoke to fatigue and break, usually right at the head.

    Karl

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick
    Did that spoke break right at the bend where it exits the hub? Depending on the wheel and if it was machine built or hand made (hand made usually are better tensioned) you might want to check all the spokes and see if any feel overly loose. Often low tension allows the spoke to move around at the hub causing the spoke to fatigue and break, usually right at the head.

    Karl
    Both times a spoke broke it broke off right at the nipple

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turt99
    Both times a spoke broke it broke off right at the nipple
    Wow, that's quite unusual. So is there a piece of the spoke still threaded into the nipple or is the nipple breaking off and staying attached to the spoke?

  7. #7
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    The nipple is still in the rim, the spoke seems to broken exactly where it would have met the nipple. I'm thinking its braking right at the threads or something.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turt99
    The nipple is still in the rim, the spoke seems to broken exactly where it would have met the nipple. I'm thinking its braking right at the threads or something.
    I'm guessing those are some no-name spokes if that is happening. Maybe the threads are cut onto the spokes rather than rolled creating a weak point. Best bet if you want to avoid anymore broken spokes is to have the whole wheel rebuilt with new spokes. I really like DT Swiss Competition spokes... light and strong.

    Karl
    Last edited by kwarwick; 06-02-2006 at 11:48 AM.

  9. #9
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    They are the stock spokes on a Gary Fisher Marlin, so I don't think they are too fantastic or anything. I'll get this fixed, and then I think I might save for a nice rebuild. I think if the wheel were relaced by hand I wouldn't has as much problem

  10. #10
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    Anytime I have broken a spoke, it has been a result of poor tension. I am certainly no wheel-builder, but suspect this may be your problem.

    Instead than trying to fix it quickly, you may want to find somebody who specializes in wheels, rather than a bike shop who just "does" wheels.

    Don't know if you are close to Mississauga, but I can highly recommend the guy that works for Bike Zone on Lakeshore. He just re-dished my rear wheel, and only charged me $15. The guy is a wizard with a spoke wrench.
    It's only pain......

  11. #11
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    Yeah I'm kinda thinking when I took my bike to the LBS and had them replace the spoke they replaced it but didn't really "fix" the problem.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turt99
    Yeah I'm kinda thinking when I took my bike to the LBS and had them replace the spoke they replaced it but didn't really "fix" the problem.
    Try "plucking" each spoke and listen to the ring it makes. The drive side spokes will have a slightly higher pitch than the non-drive side. However, each side should sound somewhat similar. If you have a tension problem, you will notice a very distinct difference in the sound.
    It's only pain......

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MS MSP
    crappy day.
    if the wheel isn't out of round you can still ride it.
    Be careful riding with a broken spoke. Last week I was out and got a stick in rear wheel. When I got home I noticed a broken spoke. So I decided its just one spoke, I taped it to another and out for a ride the next night. Started off good then as I went over roots and rocks kept hearing more break. 20 minutes into my ride I had 5 broken and walked out of thr bush so I didnt collapse the rim.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satan2
    Be careful riding with a broken spoke. Last week I was out and got a stick in rear wheel. When I got home I noticed a broken spoke. So I decided its just one spoke, I taped it to another and out for a ride the next night. Started off good then as I went over roots and rocks kept hearing more break. 20 minutes into my ride I had 5 broken and walked out of thr bush so I didnt collapse the rim.
    Let us know who built your wheel ..... so we can all avoid whoever it is. That should never happen.


    So, Turt - you out riding now? Get all your parts in order?
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

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  15. #15
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    cough, cough...

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Let us know who built your wheel ..... so we can all avoid whoever it is. That should never happen.


    So, Turt - you out riding now? Get all your parts in order?
    you dont ride your bike with a broken spoke in the wheel... has nothing to do with wheel builder...

    you fix the spoke and then go riding. if you dont fix the spoke, you will end up with another 5 broken spokes...


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    you dont ride your bike with a broken spoke in the wheel... has nothing to do with wheel builder...

    you fix the spoke and then go riding. if you dont fix the spoke, you will end up with another 5 broken spokes...

    No, you build your own wheels and don't break spokes.

    Here's a Halls for your cough. Cover your mouth next time.
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

    ... and cookies. :D

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    you dont ride your bike with a broken spoke in the wheel... has nothing to do with wheel builder...

    you fix the spoke and then go riding. if you dont fix the spoke, you will end up with another 5 broken spokes...
    If you know how to true with wheel with the 1 broken spoke out then you can actually still ride the wheel (36-32spokes) How do I know? Er well....

    But if the spoke was replaced and the wheel still isnt true then the rim and spokes prob have to be replaced if the rim is too far gone from being warped before or the guy that trued it just sucks at wheelbuilding.
    Riding F/S since oct 94'

  18. #18
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    speaking like a true nOOb

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperNewb
    If you know how to true with wheel with the 1 broken spoke out then you can actually still ride the wheel (36-32spokes) How do I know? Er well....

    But if the spoke was replaced and the wheel still isnt true then the rim and spokes prob have to be replaced if the rim is too far gone from being warped before or the guy that trued it just sucks at wheelbuilding.
    a wheel with a broken spoke or two can be "fixed" so that you can go back home or get to your car, if spokes broke during the ride...

    but to ride a bike with broken spokes..... no matter how you true the wheel - it is just plalin stupid....

    but to each his / her own... if you know how to true the wheel, you should know how to replace the spoke. if you dont have spare spokes in your toolbox.. wel... then your comments make more sense...


  19. #19
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    Well it seems that the conversation has turned towards wheel building, and don't worry guys I went back to the LBS and got the spoke replaced, I'm going to give the wheels one more chance before I do something major.

    If any more spokes break, I'm thinking I will either get a new wheel altogether or I will at minimum relace the wheel with all new spokes. The hub and rim should be fine, however the hub is just a deore hub, so it could be upgraded.

    As for the parts, I just got all the parts together today, and I got the new White Brothers fork on the bike. Its looking really sweet, and I can't wait to get it on the trails. I know its going to perform way better then my Axel was.

    Ohh and the bruise on my forehead, is still nice and visible, just ask nogearshere

    I have to give thanks out to Peter, he really went out of his way to help me with the installation of the fork, it was prep'd for installation for me, and then he got the needed parts to me as soon as possible. I wouldn't hesitate to spend more at MisfitsPsycles if I had anymore hehe.

  20. #20
    I already rode that
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    a wheel with a broken spoke or two can be "fixed" so that you can go back home or get to your car, if spokes broke during the ride...

    but to ride a bike with broken spokes..... no matter how you true the wheel - it is just plalin stupid....

    but to each his / her own... if you know how to true the wheel, you should know how to replace the spoke. if you dont have spare spokes in your toolbox.. wel... then your comments make more sense...
    How is it stupid? Its only stupid if you dont know how to true a wheel properly. To believe a shop can true a wheel the best is stupid as well since you dont know for sure who there is doing the truing on your wheel. Is it the guy that knows how or is it the the guy that is just learning? I've seen wheels fail from "reputable" shops because they let some kid learn on a customers wheel which isnt much an issue unless the rider is out riding hard then it just going to fail anyways...

    Also just to read a comment and ASSume so much is just stupid as well. I guess I need to respond with exact details and include various circumstances as well to prove a point to some ppl...
    Riding F/S since oct 94'

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperNewb
    How is it stupid? Its only stupid if you dont know how to true a wheel properly.
    hmmm, so you know how to true the wheel PROPERLY with one spoke mising???

    why do they put all the spokes in when they build wheels? i was always wondering... thanks for educating me. you must be the master wheel builder. i am sure your wheels dont have all spokes in them, but they are properly trued...


    To believe a shop can true a wheel the best is stupid as well since you dont know for sure who there is doing the truing on your wheel. Is it the guy that knows how or is it the the guy that is just learning?
    who was arguing about this? did i miss something? but since we are at it - most of the times, shops can do way better job than any amateur at home...


    I've seen wheels fail from "reputable" shops because they let some kid learn on a customers wheel which isnt much an issue unless the rider is out riding hard then it just going to fail anyways...
    meaning - it is ok for the shop to give a wheel to the kid that is learning the business as long as it belongs to someone who rides hard, because it is going to fail anyway...

    clap, clap, clap....


    Also just to read a comment and ASSume so much is just stupid as well. I guess I need to respond with exact details and include various circumstances as well to prove a point to some ppl...
    didn't assume anything - your comments were so simple and straight forward that i didnt have to assume anything... you said that it was possible to PROPERLY true the wheel with one spoke missing... you ain't getting my wheel for truing...

    i am still laughing at that comment...

  22. #22
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    Still assuming things I see...
    Its raining out so I got time some time to argue your arguement.

    I was talking about 1 spoke missing and truing the wheel and still riding with it, something some ppl with wheelbuilding experience can do but you now seem to think i said I building wheels without a spoke or a few is ok and perfectly ridable (which actually is but will fail depending what spoke pattern you used....but thats another argument Im sure you'll love to twist around and such )

    I can build a wheel just as good as any shop can as I said before it depends on whose building the wheel at the shop but thanks for twisting my words around. I also never said about properly truing the wheel, I just said it can be trued and still ridden.

    Riding F/S since oct 94'

  23. #23
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    yeah, rain is making us all nervous

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperNewb
    Still assuming things I see...
    Its raining out so I got time some time to argue your arguement.

    I was talking about 1 spoke missing and truing the wheel and still riding with it, something some ppl with wheelbuilding experience can do but you now seem to think i said I building wheels without a spoke or a few is ok and perfectly ridable (which actually is but will fail depending what spoke pattern you used....but thats another argument Im sure you'll love to twist around and such )

    I can build a wheel just as good as any shop can as I said before it depends on whose building the wheel at the shop but thanks for twisting my words around. I also never said about properly truing the wheel, I just said it can be trued and still ridden.

    since we can not ride our bikes (with mising spokes )

    what you should have said was this:

    one can temporarily true the wheel with one or two spokes broken just to get out of the woods, get home or get to the car...

    one should not go for a ride with even one spoke broken, no matter how the wheel is trued...

    anything else is a disaster waiting to happen....

    am i ASSuming anything here?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    since we can not ride our bikes (with mising spokes )

    what you should have said was this:

    one can temporarily true the wheel with one or two spokes broken just to get out of the woods, get home or get to the car...

    one should not go for a ride with even one spoke broken, no matter how the wheel is trued...

    anything else is a disaster waiting to happen....

    am i ASSuming anything here?
    Yes you still are but I forgive you since the rain stopped and such

    If your paranoid about riding with 1 spoke missing then dont ride the bike. I know I would ride lightly till I got home (then again I didnt ride lightly ) and trued it up if I didnt replace the spoke soon enough. I rode with my rear wheel missing 1 spoke for 3 months! not 1 week but 3 months! Sure I had to true the wheel a couple times but it did hold up to how I ride my bike. I did eventually replace the rim and spokes though and I built them up myself and its still works very nice.

    That was on a 32 spoke wheel, now I wouldnt keep riding on my 28 spoke wheel but then again....
    Riding F/S since oct 94'

  25. #25
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    i'll make my final comment......

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperNewb
    Yes you still are but I forgive you since the rain stopped and such

    If your paranoid about riding with 1 spoke missing then dont ride the bike. I know I would ride lightly till I got home (then again I didnt ride lightly ) and trued it up if I didnt replace the spoke soon enough. I rode with my rear wheel missing 1 spoke for 3 months! not 1 week but 3 months! Sure I had to true the wheel a couple times but it did hold up to how I ride my bike. I did eventually replace the rim and spokes though and I built them up myself and its still works very nice.

    That was on a 32 spoke wheel, now I wouldnt keep riding on my 28 spoke wheel but then again....
    if just one spoke is missing, the wheel can be trued to be perfect in rotation, even roll well on the asphalt if you dont hit any potholes...

    but to take some fast descent (like Mansfield start/finish area or Hardwood Hills) with some rocks or potholes, riding at 45km/h+ speeds with one missing spoke, with stress riser on the rim where the spoke is missing that could collapse the whole rim if you hit just one pothole just right - i am assuming that you would need to book your favourite orthopaedic surgeon time, right after the ride...

    why? because of the $2 spoke that is missing????

    please agree with me that this is not an assumption and help those that dont know - understand that they should not be riding their bikes hard with just one spoke broken, until it is fixed... it is much less painful...

    i am done with this...

  26. #26
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    glad to hear that idgit at mp got something right this w/e...he is still in the garage with a hacksaw cutting a bb axle...

    without choosing sides or extending the wheel debate further:

    it is normal and expected that a spoke will break at the nipple - top of the thread. that is the weakest point. it is also where the most stress is under side load. occassionally they break at the head but not as often.

    stock wheels (in fact most wheels) were build by a robot. they will (likely) be overtensioned. items such as trueness and roundness are the main qualities of concern. i just repaired a stock rear wheel with 4 broken (as a result of uneven-over tension). to make matters worse the heads of the nipples were sheared off inside the rim, clearly the spokes extended too far (wrong size) and were 'fixed' rather than replaced. the other problem resulting from r2d2 built wheels? they are often tensioned soo high that when a failure occurs (or they come out of true) they are a bear to repair and occassionally need rebuilding.

    my unsolicited advice: break a spoke, ride out. don't ride again until it is fixed. could cost you a rim or worse.

    yes, while it is possible to true a wheel missing a spoke, it will be so unbalanced that failures will continue as the wheel tries to balance itself. that said i am not your parents, do what you want.
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  27. #27
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    I guess I either got really lucky (many times? ) or I can true a wheel pretty damn good

    Sure a wheel can fail while doing 45km+ but then any wheel can fail just as well when hitting the same things. For a couple dollars one can replace the spoke easy enough but not everyone can or they are just too lazy.

    As for nogearshere,
    Most stock wheels I dealt with very few came over tensioned and most infacted needed a higher tension. Of course I havent dealt with very many ones that were over tensioned or with the nipples getting pulled through. Actually that wheel I was riding with a missing spoke for so long was getting that problem with a couple spokes only from the retruing I done to it so many times.

    My current wheelset was stock off a bike yet I only trued it twice in the 2 years I had it and it was a known wheelset to have major issues with keeping trueness. The wheelset it replaced even though supposedly stronger needed more truing then that every year and I dont pick the smoothest easiest lines like most ppl would or do...

    Yes I do what I want and dont need others to tell me something I dont already know or know that it can be done a different way and still work even though they think it cant.
    Riding F/S since oct 94'

  28. #28
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    iKnowEverything...

    time to change your handle...


    Quote Originally Posted by SuperNewb
    I guess I either got really lucky (many times? ) or I can true a wheel pretty damn good

    Sure a wheel can fail while doing 45km+ but then any wheel can fail just as well when hitting the same things. For a couple dollars one can replace the spoke easy enough but not everyone can or they are just too lazy.

    As for nogearshere,
    Most stock wheels I dealt with very few came over tensioned and most infacted needed a higher tension. Of course I havent dealt with very many ones that were over tensioned or with the nipples getting pulled through. Actually that wheel I was riding with a missing spoke for so long was getting that problem with a couple spokes only from the retruing I done to it so many times.

    My current wheelset was stock off a bike yet I only trued it twice in the 2 years I had it and it was a known wheelset to have major issues with keeping trueness. The wheelset it replaced even though supposedly stronger needed more truing then that every year and I dont pick the smoothest easiest lines like most ppl would or do...

    Yes I do what I want and dont need others to tell me something I dont already know or know that it can be done a different way and still work even though they think it cant.

  29. #29
    I already rode that
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    time to change your handle...
    Yes it is "i'll make my final comment...... " or is it " i am done with this..."?
    Riding F/S since oct 94'

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