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  1. #1
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    Ticks and Lyme Disease

    Info on ticks and lyme disease


    Toronto public health officials have begun to put up signs in the city where blacklegged ticks have been found and they are warning the public that these ticks can spread Lyme disease.

    The areas identified in the city as having blacklegged ticks are Morningside Park, Cedar Ridge Park and Rouge Park in Scarborough as well as Algonquin Island, part of the Toronto Island group of parks, across the harbour from the city's downtown.

    Toronto identifies areas where ticks that cause Lyme disease are found - Toronto - CBC News
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    Damn ticks got me so paranoid. Anyone using permethrin?

    How do they exactly monitor this? Places like Albion Hills and Durham forest checked for ticks?

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    Well, we may have the worst weather known to humanity and ridiculous mosquitoes and black flies down here, but at least we don't have ticks (so far anyway).

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    Quote Originally Posted by herder View Post
    Damn ticks got me so paranoid. Anyone using permethrin?

    How do they exactly monitor this? Places like Albion Hills and Durham forest checked for ticks?
    Can you get this stuff in Canada? I know they sell the spray in the states but I couldn't find it in Canada (as of Summer 2015. Haven't started looking for the stuff this season yet..)

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    I buy it up north at a friends farm supply. Super cheap. You can buy it on amazon as well but will pay for shipping. I get it at 10% concentration and dilute it 20 times to bring it to 0.5% (1part permethrin to 20 parts water) I hunt, hike, bike, camp, etc. and am exposed more than most. We used to take turns pulling ticks out of each others backs when hunting in Sudbury back in the day. Since using this stuff (I do the soak method on gear 3 times a season) I haven't had an issue.
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    ^ good info chuck!
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    After diluting it in water, would it be the same as the stuff you can buy in the U.S that is already 0.5%? Like the sawyer brand. Its expensive to get that stuff from the U.S, shipping always kills any deal.

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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckeieio View Post
    I buy it up north at a friends farm supply. Super cheap. You can buy it on amazon as well but will pay for shipping. I get it at 10% concentration and dilute it 20 times to bring it to 0.5% (1part permethrin to 20 parts water) I hunt, hike, bike, camp, etc. and am exposed more than most. We used to take turns pulling ticks out of each others backs when hunting in Sudbury back in the day. Since using this stuff (I do the soak method on gear 3 times a season) I haven't had an issue.
    Want to organize a group buy?

    I was going to order some of the Sawyer stuff but it gets really expensive with shipping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stanza View Post
    Want to organize a group buy?

    I was going to order some of the Sawyer stuff but it gets really expensive with shipping.
    https://www.amazon.ca/Permethrin-10%...rds=permethrin

    This looks cheap enough. Free shipping and you need to dilute it with 20x water. I'm just wondering if it will be the same as the sawyer stuff.

    I'm more worried about the other ingredients

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    Quote Originally Posted by herder View Post
    https://www.amazon.ca/Permethrin-10%...rds=permethrin

    This looks cheap enough. Free shipping and you need to dilute it with 20x water. I'm just wondering if it will be the same as the sawyer stuff.

    I'm more worried about the other ingredients
    Sweet! Thanks for the link

    Well, permethrin isn't meant to be applied directly to skin. It should be okay when sprayed onto clothes.

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    To wet down your gear with a can of the stuff takes more than you'd think. The Sawyers stuff is fine but very expensive considering you can just mix your own from a stronger concentration at a fraction of the cost.
    At the DIY price I'm pretty loose with the stuff making sure to soak everything thoroughly. (it also kills mosquitoes so I hit the tents, lawn chairs, etc with it as well) Think I pay $13 a quart at 10%

    As far as it transferring from clothing to the skin.. once it's dry it it bonds which is what makes it so effective. The fact that it lasts 6 washings at full strength speaks volumes of what it takes to transfer and even then at .5% it's not harmful and very poorly absorbed by the skin. **Copy and paste from a link below** "A 140-pound person would have no adverse health effects if exposed to 32 gms of permethrin/day.There is less than 1 gram of permethrin in an entire bottle of clothing treatment."

    Just for a comparison, veterinarians sell "Advantix" for dogs. (I used to use it on my dogs but now make my own) It's permethrin at 50.00% (fifty) and is applied directly to the skin at a dose of 4ml and they consider it safe to apply once a month as it is poorly absorbed by the skin and lasts waterproof, full strength on the skin protecting them from ticks.

    See here for a bit of safety info TickEncounter Resource Center

    and here for diluting for clothing http://www.greendept.com/maximpulse/...structions.pdf


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    Its why I carry one of these with me.

    Ticks and Lyme Disease-tickkey.jpg
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    I have one of those tick keys but they're only effective if a sizable tick has latched on for quite some time; and by then, it's likely too late. Also, ticks the size of a grain of pepper can transmit lyme disease so it's better to keep them off of you (long pants tucked into socks / staying out of tall grasses and bushes).

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    I too buy Permethrin from farm supply in the 10% strength.
    Used to do the Sawyer thing,....that got expensive fast.

    I backwoods canoe-trip in the summer, so no respite from the bugs.
    Permethrin on the clothes and gear, deet on bit of me and all is good.
    Years ago, I transferred the regime to the bike. Works a charm.
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    Thanks for continuing to share info.

    Right now the blackflies are out in full force and I've been using DeepWoods Off - dry spray... which isn't as greasy as the regular)

    I wasn't familiar with permethrin and appreciate learning and seeking to understand


    DEET versus Permethrin as a Tick Repellent
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclelicious View Post
    Thanks for continuing to share info.

    Right now the blackflies are out in full force and I've been using DeepWoods Off - dry spray... which isn't as greasy as the regular)

    I wasn't familiar with permethrin and appreciate learning and seeking to understand


    DEET versus Permethrin as a Tick Repellent
    I've always thought they were missing out on a great advertising opportunity.

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar View Post
    I've always thought they were missing out on a great advertising opportunity.

    "Like to have fun in the woods? Get Off and enjoy life more often..."
    Indeed

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    Permethrin is fine applied directed to skin, in moderate amounts and moderate frequency. It's what we use for scabies, lice, many different infestations. There are side affects with all medications (and this is a medication once you apply it to your skin) but the risk:benefit ratio is clear on this one. Those damn ticks are TERRIBLE in northern Michigan this year. Unfortunately avoiding contact isn't an option for an outdoorsman/ woman any longer. Hoping we're through the worst of this. A trail ride rarely presents a tick for me but walking 1/2 mile to back of property yielded 13 ticks between the three of us Friday. Never seen it like this. Surprisingly at work we are seeing very few cases of Lyme's.

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    A couple of things regarding Permethrin.
    It is highly toxic to cats - so do not use on kitty or his bed or environment.
    As well it is extremely highly toxic to fish.

    Once it is applied to a fabric it binds to it. it will withstand several good washings - it gradually wears and loses its effectiveness.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rentalrider View Post
    Permethrin is fine applied directed to skin, in moderate amounts and moderate frequency. It's what we use for scabies, lice, many different infestations. There are side affects with all medications (and this is a medication once you apply it to your skin) but the risk:benefit ratio is clear on this one. Those damn ticks are TERRIBLE in northern Michigan this year. Unfortunately avoiding contact isn't an option for an outdoorsman/ woman any longer. Hoping we're through the worst of this. A trail ride rarely presents a tick for me but walking 1/2 mile to back of property yielded 13 ticks between the three of us Friday. Never seen it like this. Surprisingly at work we are seeing very few cases of Lyme's.
    During their lifetime, ticks will go through four stages, from egg to adult. Each stage requires an increasingly larger blood host to ensure survival. Humans are at most risk during spring and summer months, typically April through September. You can get ticks anytime it just more prominent in dry summers just check yourself no matter what time of year it is and also make sure you check pets.


    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    A couple of things regarding Permethrin.
    It is highly toxic to cats - so do not use on kitty or his bed or environment.
    As well it is extremely highly toxic to fish.

    Once it is applied to a fabric it binds to it. it will withstand several good washings - it gradually wears and loses its effectiveness.

    I don't like that side effect!

    Here is another good link

    CanLyme ? Canadian Lyme Disease Foundation | Lyme education & research fundraising in Canada
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    Some useful info from my local "Lyme Disease Task force"

    https://nolyme.com/

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    In case anyone is interested, this story from earlier this year in Slate has lots of good information about the ecology of ticks, the diseases they cause, and how to protect yourself and your loved ones: Tick-borne diseases are spreading fast.
    (Full disclosure: the author is my wife.)

    One thing she mentions in the piece is that you can send your gear away to get it specially treated with permethrin so that it lasts for 60 washes. I do this with all my riding gear. (The place is in North Carolina so shipping may be prohibitively expensive for Canadians.) TickEncounter Resource Center > Prevention > Insect Shield Your Own Clothes

    And one thing that no one has mentioned, but is super important: DO TICK CHECKS! Take a hot shower, then take your time and look everywhere for the buggers. They especially like hairy bits and dark crevices, so don't be prude about it.

  23. #23
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    Thanks for your contributions!

    I know a rider who is currently being treated for early Lyme disease symptoms
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    This tick nest thing was found at one of our parks here,


    Ticks and Lyme Disease-ticknest.jpg

    if you see this stay away far away. Also contact the city and they should take care of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    this tick nest thing was found at one of our parks here,


    Click image for larger version. 

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    If you see this stay away far away. Also contact the city and they should take care of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    This tick nest thing was found at one of our parks here,


    Click image for larger version. 

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    if you see this stay away far away. Also contact the city and they should take care of it.
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    ^ Horror show!
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    Everyone should definitely be doing the tick check after a ride. My son got a tick bite that developed the bullseye rash, where the ring expanded and cleared. Took him to McMaster er (because it was on the weekend). The doctor checked the public health site, and said it likely wasn't lyme because we hadn't been to any of the areas most known for tick infestations. Also that he didn't even meet the criteria for blood testing because he had no fever, or aches yet. I'm sure doctors hate when people Google stuff, but I told her that I read that it was the Lyme that causes the bullseye, not the bite. She didn't seem overly concerned. We called our doctor on the Monday. She insisted on squeezing him in that same day. We found out that she used to work in a hospital in Florida that regularly treated Lyme, and really seemed familiar with it. She said that the blood test is so inacurate that it's not worth doing it. She was positive that the rash was Lyme, and started him on antibiotics right away. I'm so glad we got a second opinion. I hope this info helps someone. I've heard awful stories of Lyme not diagnosed in time to treat it early. Not all doctors have experience with it.

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    ^^ Agreed.

    I have a friend who found a tick attached to their thigh about a month ago.

    I explained to them the risk of ticks and Lyme disease but I guess it didn't sink in and they ignored it.

    He just got released from the hospital after a ten day stay.

    They diagnosed the issue as 'blood poisoning' but could not figure out what caused it. I asked if it could be a symptom of Lyme and he said the doctors ruled that out. I'm not an expert and wouldn't generally disagree with a Doctors diagnosis but my understanding is there is no actual 'test' for Lyme.
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    It all depends on the doctor you get. I got a rash on my knee the doctor said it is more likely a fungus but sent me for blood work, to make sure it's not lyme. Oh with the blood work you need to go twice being 1 month apart.
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    Lyme testing is "good" but the provider needs to know its limitations, and thus be used and interpreted correctly. For example, the common test for Lyme looks for your body's antibodies against the bug. Not the bug itself. For many it takes weeks for your body to manufacture detectable levels of antibodies, so if done too early, the test may not be accurate.

    A funky looking lesion immediately following an arthropod or insect bite does not necessarily equal Lyme.

    A spreading, ring-worm looking rash, later on, is very suggestive of Lyme.

    Caugh early enough, a single dose of oral doxycycline may prevent Lyme. I've pulled a few deer ticks off myself. The ones that bit me and possibly fed a bit had me take the doxy.

    Lyme is very common. Given the amount of antibiotics thrown around for far less concerning matters, I have a low threshold to treat potential Lyme cases. Treatment in the early phase is pretty safe and simple. I've also treated cases of advanced/cns Lyme, and while the outcome was good, it was a rocky, expensive road for the patient.

    Permethrin reportedly works well as a safe, no hassle repellant. Google it.

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    Heads up.
    I hike with my pooches on our mtb trails in highland creek in Scarborough 4-5 days a week. So far this year we've been tick free so mid summer I discontinued their tick treatments. Late last week I took them to an area of Rouge Park (10 min drive from Highland creek) just north of the Toronto Zoo to go mushroom picking. A day or two later we found both dogs together to have well over 12 black leg deer ticks dug into them. It's the same spot I rode through last fall where I picked up a few myself.
    Hard to believe the ticks are that much worse such a short distance away. Thinking back to the past couple years when we had the same problems we were hiking up there regularly as well. I'm blacking that entire Rouge Park off my map permanently.
    Good thing I was wearing treated clothes or I may have got a few as well.
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    Do any of you wear different gear when riding in known tick areas or do you just apply Permethrin to your riding shorts shirt and shoes?

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    I ride with treated gear and reapply every 2 months or less. Because I have dupes of some clothes, I use a paint marker to put a blue dot on socks, gloves, etc that I've treated so I don't use em on paved rides and so on.
    Of the few guys this season who I know that picked up ticks, all of them were either on their heads or beneath the sock level on their ankles.
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    How did the ticks get to their heads?

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    You'd be amazed where they'll get. They attach to plants, especially those tall "blowing" plants in fields. They are able to sense CO2 and wait in these grasses with their front legs open, at the ready. They're a real PIA however mid summer til current we've been pretty decent. Spring was a nightmare. Seems I am most likely to get them on my head, especially behind ears for some reason. Maybe because that's the place you aren't able to easily, visually check?

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    I thought they stayed closer to the ground. The thought of them hiding in someones hair undetected and passing on lyme plus the other stuff they carry is terrifying.

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    Ticks and Lyme Disease-20141016_112434_richtone-hdr-.jpg
    Caught this one by chance when I happened to see it crawling up my bright red sleeve.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post
    How did the ticks get to their heads?
    When you ride, it's mostly your shoulders and head that brush against bushes and trees.

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    found 2 black legged ticks embedded in my skin in the shower this morning. Removed them, but one broke. tried to remove the head. Went to ER. They would not remove the head, nor treat with Doxy. Heading to another doctor now. Hoping to get treated.

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    Hey Stew hope all is well, any update? Did you find a competent Dr.? What a nightmare.

    Mind if I ask some questions?

    Why wouldn't they remove it? Or treat? Did they think it wasn't necessary, or some other reason? Did they take the risk of Lyme disease seriously or were they unaware?
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    Hey, thanks Greg! All is well.
    Went to the after hours clinic at my doctors office. The doctor I got has a daughter who got lyme last year in Waterdown where I was riding. So luckily, she had already done her research. At first, she said antibiotics were likely not necessary. But after further talking, decided she would prescribe doxycycline. The mouth part of the tick had been in for nearly 24 hrs at that point, and I had accidently squeezed both ticks trying to remove them. (they are hard to get out). She also removed the remaining part with little issue. I didn't even have to ask.

    The doctor at the ER said he would not treat unless I was showing symptoms of lyme. He said the piece was too small to worry about. They were not happy when I wouldn't leave the ticks with them to be sent out for testing. But I wanted the next doctor to see them. Glad I did that.

    Going to look into treating my riding gear. But I didn't think it would be an issue this late in the year. But apparently, It's becoming quite a problem.

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    There is a tool you can get to remove ticks without squeezing them. It has a tapered slot you slide under the tick to lift it out,

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    Just went to order the 36.8% concentrate permethrin on Amazon.com. $23, plus $88 shipping. The 36.8% is not available on amazon.ca.
    Are you guys using the 10%?

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    Whereabouts in Waterdown do you notice you're picking up ticks? I ride Waterdown frequently, never had a problem (knock on wood)...
    Todd :thumbsup:

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Todd- View Post
    Whereabouts in Waterdown do you notice you're picking up ticks? I ride Waterdown frequently, never had a problem (knock on wood)...
    I've been riding Waterdown for over 20 years. Never even seen a tick before this. My son developed the bullseye rash this passed summer, but we never saw the tick, and we ride all over, so his could have been picked up elsewhere.

    That night I was riding west of Waterdown road in the valley. Not sure where I would have picked them up though. I had to go off trail on foot twice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stew325 View Post

    The doctor at the ER said he would not treat unless I was showing symptoms of lyme. He said the piece was too small to worry about. They were not happy when I wouldn't leave the ticks with them to be sent out for testing. But I wanted the next doctor to see them. Glad I did that.
    That's insane. Glad you found a doc that takes this seriously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stew325 View Post
    I've been riding Waterdown for over 20 years. Never even seen a tick before this. My son developed the bullseye rash this passed summer, but we never saw the tick, and we ride all over, so his could have been picked up elsewhere.

    That night I was riding west of Waterdown road in the valley. Not sure where I would have picked them up though. I had to go off trail on foot twice.
    I know the area well...

    The big field on the other side of the bridge @ Grindstone seems like a prime spot for ticks OR up by the horse pasture...

    Thanks for the headsup!
    Todd :thumbsup:

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    It's that time of year again, watch out for ticks.

    4 Ways to Remove a Tick - wikiHow
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    Stop using the the captain photos

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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    Stop using the the captain photos

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    your loosing it.
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  53. #53
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    Some interesting ideas


    This Simple Tip Will Keep Ticks Off Of You All Summer Long

    Ticks and Lyme Disease-ticks_1050x550.jpg

    When winter is coming to a close and we are getting ready for the warmer weather, many of us look forward to heading outdoors and enjoying some sunshine. There are many reasons to go outside and it certainly can be a wonderful time of year. Unfortunately, it is also the time of year when we need to be cautious about getting ticks. It can really ruin the day.

    If you are somebody that tends to spend a lot of time outdoors, you need to be able to effectively protect yourself from ticks. They are more than just a nuisance or a pest that makes us uncomfortable, they carry diseases, some of which are very dangerous and even deadly. The next time you’re out enjoying what the great outdoors has to offer, consider this simple trick and you can keep ticks from latching on and causing problems.

    Ticks and Lyme Disease-1-20.jpg


    Lint roller and essential oil

    Ticks and Lyme Disease-2-15.jpg

    In order to use this tip, you will need a roller and some essential oils. The lint roller should use adhesive layers. Take it with you when you’re going outside and roll it on your clothing every once in a while. You might be surprised with what you pick up in a very short amount of time.
    Adding some essential oil may help to keep the ticks from climbing on you while you are outside. Spray the essential oil on your clothing and rub it into your skin and the ticks may just stay away. It also works for mosquitoes and black flies. It’s a good alternative to insect repellent and reduces your chemical exposure.

    Here are 5 essential oils that repel bugs.

    1. Lavender – This smells sweet to us but bugs absolutely hate it. It works on mosquitoes, flies and other insects.

    2. PennyRoyal – this is a member of the mint family and it is toxic to insects.

    3. Lemongrass – This essential oil comes from tropical lemongrass and has a citrusy sent. It is a natural flea and tick repellent and can be sprayed directly on the skin.

    4. Eucalyptus – use this alone or along with citronella oil to keep bugs away. According to the Journal of medical entomology, Eucalyptus extract can reduce tick bites and infections.

    5. Lemon – some lemon essential oil can work against fleas and other bugs. Slightly dilute it and spray it on your clothing and skin.
    sauce This Simple Tip Will Keep Ticks Off Of You All Summer Long - Useful Tips For Home
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  54. #54
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    Ticks are spreading throughout the province, some bringing Lyme disease with them. The solutions are simple — but educating people about them is not.

    Ticks and Lyme Disease-deer-tick.jpg

    "The number of ticks that are coming in on migratory birds has increased. But at the same time we have identified that there is a very clear geographic pattern,” says Nicholas Ogden, senior research scientist at Public Health. “The warmer places over the past few decades have been the first to acquire tick populations and the emergence of these tick populations has occurred at a time which is consistent with it being driven by recent climate warming.”
    The blacklegged tick (also known as the deer tick) is the most dangerous: it’s the one that carries Lyme disease. Other ticks may carry diseases other than Lyme, but early detection and proper removal are vital for all species. Those things are easy to do; public health agencies’ biggest challenge is convincing people to do them.
    sauce: Ticked off: The fight against Ontario?s newest pest | TVO.org

    Watch the video for more info
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    Hey guys, just dropping in to say make sure you take this stuff seriously.

    I used to be an avid rider. I was infected with Lyme back in 2013. This year will be the 4th straight year that I'm physically unable to ride my bike. It sucks every day.

    Here's a post I made on Pinkbike that explains ticks, Lyme, prevention, and what to do if you're bitten:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listc...hreadid=186593

    Please take preventative measures. Simply taking a tool to remove ticks from your body isn't enough. Ticks can transmit bacteria in less than 15 minutes.

    If you've been bitten you need antibiotics.
    Less than 50% of Lyme disease patients ever get a rash.
    If you do get a rash, you have Lyme. The bulls-eye rash is not a symptom of a tick bite, it's a symptom of borreliosis (Lyme).
    The disease can remain asymptomatic for months or years.

  56. #56
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    I am able to ride again, after 7 months diagnosed lyme turned into a blown up knee
    (lucky that happened, so lyme did not remain hidden symptomess...)

    -and 6 weeks of doxy failed (later determined to be my sunflower seed habit)

    -and 10 days of ceftriaxone in a PICC line (PICC line not fun, look it up)
    put me in intensive care with 104+ fevers
    and convulsions, while additional vancomycin and doxy was pushed down

    -stopped all treatment so I could come back from near coma
    you would be surprised the damage 104 deg body temp does to all organs, it
    makes you feel like ass for longer wway beyond whatever else you are in for

    -restarted doxy again after 2 weeks rest,
    6 weeks, but on double-dose (blah) and severe diet restriction. this one worked!

    10 months on crutches overall. no riding for a year,
    knee clicks/locks for three years after. knee ok today

    safe to say no issues now except a hatred for all ticks



    if you are infected
    -hope you get diagnosed quicker than later
    -hope you can tolerate doxycycline

    if you can tolerate doxycycline, 6 weeks of 200mg or more a day will surely
    kill it off no matter how bad you have it
    but you have to make sure you don't eat any foods with a lot
    of magnesium or zinc (or lookup the other things) take make doxy less effective
    and it will make you feel like crap



    see an infectious disease specialist if possible.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    I am able to ride again, after 7 months diagnosed lyme turned into a blown up knee
    (lucky that happened, so lyme did not remain hidden symptomess...)

    -and 6 weeks of doxy failed (later determined to be my sunflower seed habit)

    -and 10 days of ceftriaxone in a PICC line (PICC line not fun, look it up)
    put me in intensive care with 104+ fevers
    and convulsions, while additional vancomycin and doxy was pushed down

    -stopped all treatment so I could come back from near coma
    you would be surprised the damage 104 deg body temp does to all organs, it
    makes you feel like ass for longer wway beyond whatever else you are in for

    -restarted doxy again after 2 weeks rest,
    6 weeks, but on double-dose (blah) and severe diet restriction. this one worked!

    10 months on crutches overall. no riding for a year,
    knee clicks/locks for three years after. knee ok today

    safe to say no issues now except a hatred for all ticks



    if you are infected
    -hope you get diagnosed quicker than later
    -hope you can tolerate doxycycline

    if you can tolerate doxycycline, 6 weeks of 200mg or more a day will surely
    kill it off no matter how bad you have it
    but you have to make sure you don't eat any foods with a lot
    of magnesium or zinc (or lookup the other things) take make doxy less effective
    and it will make you feel like crap



    see an infectious disease specialist if possible.
    Glad to hear you're feeling better, that sounds like quite the ordeal!

    For what it's worth, 6 weeks of Doxycycline will not cure everyone. Check out the Lyme forums on HealingWell or LymeNet; there's tons of people who remain on antibiotics for months to years.

    I've been on various antibiotics for 1.5 years now, including Doxycycline, and I can still find borrelia bacteria in my blood under the microscope any day of the week.

    This is probably beyond the scope of this thread, but I'd argue that for difficult chronic Lyme cases, monotherapy with Doxycycline is not nearly a good enough treatment. Studies have shown that Doxycycline often pushes the bacteria into their cystic form, where they're immune to the medication. Ideally, treatment should be with 3 antibiotics simultaneously (as tolerated) to treat spirochetes, cysts, all while hitting their intracellular niches.

    What it comes down to is that it's virtually impossible to completely eradicate Borrelia from the body. The aim is to decrease the load so that the immune system can tolerate it. The infection can often stay dormant for years.

    Lastly, if you have chronic Lyme, don't waste your time with an infectious disease doctor. Remember, according to the dinosaurs at the CDC, chronic Lyme doesn't exist. See a Lyme Literate Medical Doctor who has been certified by the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society.

  58. #58
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    Thanks for sharing your personal experience and extremely helpful info, paradiseburning

    Hope you are doing ok
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradiseburning View Post
    Glad to hear you're feeling better, that sounds like quite the ordeal!

    For what it's worth, 6 weeks of Doxycycline will not cure everyone. Check out the Lyme forums on HealingWell or LymeNet; there's tons of people who remain on antibiotics for months to years.

    I've been on various antibiotics for 1.5 years now, including Doxycycline, and I can still find borrelia bacteria in my blood under the microscope any day of the week.

    This is probably beyond the scope of this thread, but I'd argue that for difficult chronic Lyme cases, monotherapy with Doxycycline is not nearly a good enough treatment. Studies have shown that Doxycycline often pushes the bacteria into their cystic form, where they're immune to the medication. Ideally, treatment should be with 3 antibiotics simultaneously (as tolerated) to treat spirochetes, cysts, all while hitting their intracellular niches.

    What it comes down to is that it's virtually impossible to completely eradicate Borrelia from the body. The aim is to decrease the load so that the immune system can tolerate it. The infection can often stay dormant for years.

    Lastly, if you have chronic Lyme, don't waste your time with an infectious disease doctor. Remember, according to the dinosaurs at the CDC, chronic Lyme doesn't exist. See a Lyme Literate Medical Doctor who has been certified by the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society.


    My Doctor is one of the top infectious disease specialists on earth and knows
    a lot about it. He will disagree with some of what you posted, but whatever...


    Here is his quick resume:
    Professor of Medicine
    Tufts University School of Medicine


    Professor of Medicine, Public Health & Microbiology
    Boston University School of Medicine


    National Institutes of Health
    Research in Infectious Diseases


    Kenneth Kaplan Award for Excellence in the
    Practice and Teaching of Infectious Diseases
    Massachusetts Infectious Diseases Society


    and the list goes on, he has pioneered a lot or research in the effectiveness
    of antibiotics with a lot of things...was on the board of the CDC...the list is endless




    I just wanna summarize,


    I presented the same arguments, questions, and concerns
    about Lyme and what you posted above, worked with this guy for a year... can it stay dormant, can doxy kill it all...yadda yadda. He assured me it cannot survive 6 weeks
    of 200mg doxy in patients who can a) tolerate it and b) the doxy is not rendered weaker for some reason.


    now perhaps if I had the antibody markers to show I had more than '6 month markers' for lyme he might have spoken about 'does lyme have a cyst form' and do 'cell wall antibiotics work on it' but when I asked him about that, he asked me where are you hearing this ? stop reading crap in the internet and listen to me and take this antibiotic and well see how you do in 6 weeks...(then moved to cef, then doxy again for 6 week, then I am cured)


    anyhow......I am gonna stick with a 70 year old doctor who wrote the book (literally, has hundreds of medical journal entries on antibiotics and infectious diseases) and when he tells me something, as a patient with lyme under his care......I'll believe him first and foremost


    and C) since doxy did not work on me (later found out to be magnesium in sunflower seeds), I was put on ceftriaxone, dripping directly into my heart. ceftriaxone in a PICC line, no lyme can survive that. problem was I am one in 10,000 people allergic to ceftriaxone.


    -here is really what to know


    -you got lyme. ok


    -doxy will kill it, the gold standard
    -if doxy won't ceftriaxone will in a PICC line (3 grand or more to get one)


    -cannot tolerate or afford either of these, then things are gloomier, as
    other antibiotics are gradually less effective on killing lyme than those two...so if you are allergic to a lot of antibiotics, then you are gonna have a bad time having to take
    different antibiotics for much longer periods


    -how long have you had chronic lyme the big one.


    this is the damage built-up by your immune system
    while it tries to kill lyme, your body parts, nerves, joints are slowly destroyed by your own immune system. so even if lyme is killed off, there is no quick fixing the damage done
    and it is really hard to quantify that damage and how it affects you, and how to treat it. lyme will climb the spinal column and try to set up in the brain. as your immune system reacts, nerve sheaths get damaged and this can make all sorts of secondary
    problems arise (tired, digestive issues, numbness) a huge list of issues not so easy
    to solve




    anyhow, I am gonna say (based on having lyme arthritis and talking to an expert in lyme at length for a year)


    Lyme fairly easy to kill., we know how, doxy or ceftriaxone. ceftriaxone crosses
    the blood brain barrier easier than doxy and is very effective on chronic lyme.
    doxy also crosses the blood-brain barrier, but a lot less than ceftriaxone will


    Lyme can hard to detect unless you get the blood tested. I was 7 months into
    it and lucky for me I went on a hammer ride and the next day my knee exploded.
    so...I had something to make me go to hospital, no idea is was lyme till 2 weeks
    after that...


    so you can have it and not know for months or years easily....and if you had it a long time, you can kill it...but no guarantee symptoms go away


    the secondary damage is the problem, not killing lyme,..ymmv


    yeah I will believe the CDC, they have active researchers in all major medical schools looking at lyme, ya know.
    they are not dinosaurs. someone who actively researches teaches this stuff, he sees the patients with the biggest lyme problems and with the deepest pockets behind the research. yeah...not going with their advice is a fools errand.


    your mileage may vary, and I am not a doctor. I happen to have medical insurance and live sandwiched between Harvard Medical School and Lahey Hospital and got the roll of the dice when I went in with Lyme, and initially saw the top arthritic specialist who referred me to the top dog in infections diseases.
    they fixed me up from wanting to basically kill myself to being a hammer pilot again.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradiseburning View Post
    Hey guys, just dropping in to say make sure you take this stuff seriously.

    I used to be an avid rider. I was infected with Lyme back in 2013. This year will be the 4th straight year that I'm physically unable to ride my bike. It sucks every day.

    Here's a post I made on Pinkbike that explains ticks, Lyme, prevention, and what to do if you're bitten:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listc...hreadid=186593

    Please take preventative measures. Simply taking a tool to remove ticks from your body isn't enough. Ticks can transmit bacteria in less than 15 minutes.

    If you've been bitten you need antibiotics.
    Less than 50% of Lyme disease patients ever get a rash
    If you do get a rash, you have Lyme. The bulls-eye rash is not a symptom of a tick bite, it's a symptom of borreliosis (Lyme).
    The disease can remain asymptomatic for months or years.
    Some of your information is not fully correct. Ticks cannot transmit burgdorferi in 15 minutes. Ticks need to be attached for 24-48 hours for transmission. This is the main reason why it is transmitted by either larva or nymphs as these are really small and most people don't notice them.

    You are correct in that many people don't have the typical rash. This is especially true in subsequent infections.
    The idea that the disease can remain asymptomatic is not proven nor even believed. Yes, you can get cysts and bio-films but that is a bit different. Most of what is chronic "lyme" is the generation of an auto-immune response that is generated by the initial infection. Basically, the immune response to a burgdorferi protein called OSPA cross-reacts with one of your proteins causing the disease.

    Also, you mentioned you can visualize burgdorferi by just looking in your blood. Is that true now and who did this for you?

    And yes, I have had lyme and have an ID background.
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    Jesus...you guys are scaring the crap out of me! (probably a good thing!)

    Wishing all of you an imminent recovery! Thanks for sharing.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Some of your information is not fully correct. Ticks cannot transmit burgdorferi in 15 minutes. Ticks need to be attached for 24-48 hours for transmission. This is the main reason why it is transmitted by either larva or nymphs as these are really small and most people don't notice them.

    You are correct in that many people don't have the typical rash. This is especially true in subsequent infections.
    The idea that the disease can remain asymptomatic is not proven nor even believed. Yes, you can get cysts and bio-films but that is a bit different. Most of what is chronic "lyme" is the generation of an auto-immune response that is generated by the initial infection. Basically, the immune response to a burgdorferi protein called OSPA cross-reacts with one of your proteins causing the disease.

    Also, you mentioned you can visualize burgdorferi by just looking in your blood. Is that true now and who did this for you?

    And yes, I have had lyme and have an ID background.
    in my case,
    why I missed getting Lyme

    and what actually happened

    a) never saw a tick

    b) the outdoor expedition I was on where I got the tick, I got poison ivy as well,
    on the front of my knee and shin

    c) so when a week later, I got a red stripe that hurt a tiny bit, behind the knee,
    I wrote it off as hey I got some poison ivy behind my knee. it'll go away.

    d) the poison ivy itched and cleared up on a few days.

    e) the red stripe behind my knee stuck around for a week longer
    and once in a while my knee ached a teeny bit. still no worries, no idea it was lyme.

    then everything cleared up,

    2 months go by I am on a 35 mile left-for-dead
    ride and I had to stop, got cramps, went home and had the trots bad and felt
    like ass....maybe this was just random food poisoning who knows...that
    went away in 24 hours I am fine....

    5 months later I am on the road bike
    h-a-m-m-e-r-i-n-g intervals and went home and woke up with a sore
    knee the next day. blew it off as 'hey that happens sometimes when I am on the rivet'

    it didn't go away, it progressed worse for 5 more days then I limped into work, sat in my cube for an hour, and my knee started to inflate with juice and the pain was off the charts.

    to hospital, to orthopedics to drain the knee, nice clear amber fluid, so they didn't suspect much...

    back in two days in ER draining it again, ortho sent me to rheumatologist, drained a third time, said hey you a mountain biker anyone test this juice for lyme yet ? no, off you go...

    bam, I blew 10 markers for lyme. 4th knee drain and a 5th, gawd that sucks..but
    the relief is worth the big-arse needle they jam into your kneecap

    and then they referred me to infectious disease,

    used doxy, failed due to my love for sunflower seeds by the truckload. foot going number by the day. knee just sore but no longer inflating with juice, on crutches knee was so sore

    install PICC line, now I am miserable having a device in my heart...pump me with huge syringes of cef....daily. I get the home nurse to show me how to clear my
    PICC and inject my own cef...also huge syringes of it in my fridge...mentally wrecked
    worrying about the PICC and clots and anything else this PICC line may do to me

    started to blast fevers by day 8, in the hospital to ask about it, they never let me leave..in critical care at this point and they add vancomycin and doxycycline for injection to the bag...I keep getting worse and worse fevers and symptoms. finally
    a doctor dug up some research that hey this is exactly an allergic reaction to ceftriaxone, we are gonna stop it all.

    Now....in the middle of swings where I was convulsing (before they got real bad) I had the very first twinge or feeling or 'just knew' my lyme was getting the ol 1-2 from the ceftriaxone. when I was hobbling to the hopper in my room I felt and knew that the numb foot is no longer getting worse it is 1% better (I felt it man I swear)


    but by then things were bad and I could not stay on cef long enough.

    ceftriaxone day 10 I was in intensive care in convulsions as temp swung from 92 deg to 104 and back hourly

    ------------
    OK so we stopped it all,
    I came around,
    2 week break, back to the infections disease doctor for the next steps. and the word was: well, we are gonna have to desensitize you to ceftriaxone and put in a new PICC line once you are desensitized. I am like beggin him...really ?
    he said really it can be done... be tough.

    so...all during this when I was able to, I researched the ever living F out of lyme, antibiotics, sorted out the crap on the internet (which there is far more BS on the internet about lyme than actual fact...remember this...)

    I said hey doc wait a
    minute give me a chance to try doxy again....I think I know why doxy did not work. explained how when I took it I ate sunflower seeds to settle my stomach, and we both saw that sunflower seeds have more magnesium than a 1950's volkswagen. BAM....renders doxy useless.

    so he says ok why not, but if this doesn't fix it, you are in the ceftriaxone desensitizie
    program and PICC line again. I said yeah lemme try it and sure I will do whatever if it fails again. I asked for a double script.

    so....two 100mg doxy in morning, 2 at night, no food 3 hours before, and no food 2 hours after. no sun, no outdoors on hazy days, no exercise (astendons weaken on this much doxy) god this sucked...my stomach and overall feeling was crap. but I stuck it out, this severe diet restriction and double-dozy

    BOOM, started the clear up and knee rapidly felt better by day 8 on this.

    by day 20 I knew I was home free.

    end of 6 weeks, all better except damage left over from having a swollen knee for 6 straight months. but no lyme. after 3 years the clicking in my knee when pedaling steadily got less and less and now, I am whole again, so to speak.

    the only after affects are I still have (and will always have ) is blood tests will always show chronic lyme antibody markers for the rest of my life. but I have no acute markers. if I think I get lyme again a blood test will show the acute markers.

    anyhow
    that's my story. I researched the living hell out of my condition. most lyme websites
    are full of crap about 'long term lyme, cysts, antibiotics won't kiil all the lyme...' all that horseshit...

    what matters is -pretty simple in a nutshell
    -can you tolerate doxy, and does it remain effective in your system---
    --did you nuke lyme soon enough, so the side-affects from your immune response
    did not do too much 'undoable' damage.

    I swear the symptoms of people with
    chronic lyme is not lyme, but immune damage, IF they did the proper antibiotic
    regimen and IF the body chemistry worked well with that antibiotic.

    the antibiotic is doxycycline or ceftriaxone. nothing else comes close to these
    two for blasting lyme to the grave. what I wrote above applies only to
    these two.

    if you cannot take either of these, then that is a huge problem,
    because you must take more of, and for longer terms, other less effective antibiotics.

    of course I am not a doc and obviously there has to be situations
    not covered by anything I spewed out...but man o man lyme is not as
    horrible and unfixable as some half-arsed website lead you to believe.

    the only thing horrible is you can have it and not know, for months or years.

  63. #63
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    I don't want to create a huge deal on this, but this is the heart of the chronic Lyme debate that we're on two opposite sides of.

    127,

    You're absolutely right about the immune system damage. It's one of the reasons borreliosis is such a strange imitator of so many other diseases. You're also correct about it being hard to detect.

    However, blood tests are completely unreliable for Lyme disease presently. Immune responses are wildly variable, especially after chronic infection, and we're generally only testing for a single strain of a multi-strain bacteria (not to mention other tick-transmitted co-infections like Babesiosis or HGA that are often overlooked).

    I respect that you have a lot of faith in your ID doctor. He seems like he does a lot of good work for the medical community. However, he wouldn't be the first infectious disease doctor to be proven wrong time and time again in the literature on this subject.

    In fact, you can read hundreds of articles online of people who are turned away by their ID doctor after a few weeks of treatment. These patients go on to find doctors who treat chronic borreliosis with long term antibiotics, and make a full recovery.

    When your doctor says Lyme cannot survive 6 weeks of Doxycycline, I lose all respect for the man right there; if you like I can link you to literally dozens of studies that show the Borrelia persists.

    It persists in the blood.
    It persists in tissues.
    It persists in the brain.

    This is not me reading YouTube comment sections. This is not me reading fake-news blogs, this is peer-reviewed analytical science. Bacteria that persist beyond antibiotic treatment is not a new topic. If you have tuberculosis and take 1 month of antibiotics, but still have rolling fevers, do they diagnose you with post-TB syndrome and cut off treatment? Of course not, that would be ridiculous!

    If you have malaria (okay not quite a bacteria) and after a few weeks of Quinine you still have chills, do you have post-malaria syndrome? Nope, you get more treatment.

    Your ID doctor, like many others, has refused to take an objective view of the situation.

    I'm glad you got better. Most Lyme patients do. However, lets not take your positive response on Doxycycline as validation against a mountain of research.

    Vespasianus,

    The 24-48 hour time frame is based on old science.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#__sec1title

    "These results suggest that in cases where the spirochetes are present in the tick salivary glands, they can be injected into the host during the preparatory transfers of antihistamines and anticoagulants prior to the commencement of feeding, ie, immediately after attachment of the tick to the host....

    A European study documented six cases of culture-confirmed infection where tick attachment was <6 hours...

    Saraiva et al found that transmission of Rickettsia rickettsii by unfed Amblyomma aureolatum ticks required >10 hours attachment time, they found that transmission could occur in as little as 10 minutes with fed ticks....

    Therefore, LB infection can never be excluded after a tick bite irrespective of the estimated duration of attachment time."


    As for the microscopy, I have a science background and purchased a lab-grade microscope. I do my own blood smears, as well as Giemsa stains. Yes, I can find spirochetes in my blood fairly easily even though I was on Doxycycline for 3 months (taken without food). When I take a medication like Tinidazole or Metronidazole, I find primarily Borrelia spirochetes. When I take a medication like Doxycycline, Rifampin, or Azithromycin, I find primary Borrelia cysts.

    I'm not alone in finding spirochetes and other bacterial infections in my blood after prolonged antibiotic therapy. Several other have reported the same thing. We have a group on LymeNet that's been working on it for a few years, and have corresponded with some research scientists to aid diagnosis.

    Here's a quick example: Spirochetes after prolonged antibiotic therapy (not my video):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFa6S8fB2Tk

    We've also found Bartonella, Babesia, and Rickettsial infection in Giemsa smears.

    Here's Anaplasma, the causal agent in Human Granulocytic Anaplasmosis (not mine):

    https://i68.tinypic.com/wa3jx2.jpg

    Again, all of this is after prolonged antibiotic therapy.

    Lastly, Vespasianus, you said "You can get cysts and bio-films but that is a bit different."

    I'm not sure what you mean by this.
    Cysts are just a different morphology of Borrelia. Often, spirochetes they revert to their cystic form when threatened by antibiotics:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HUtKungjvE

    Biofilms are just that. Biofilms in the blood that bacteria tend to live in.

  64. #64
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    OK call my doctor and you discuss him that you know more than he does
    about lyme. I think his credentials might outweigh all your doctors combined.



    Here is some info so you can find him

    The International Association of HealthCare Professionals is pleased to welcome Dr. Donald E. Craven, MD, Infectious Disease Specialist, to their prestigious organization with his upcoming publication in The Leading Physicians of the World.

    He is a highly trained and qualified physician with a vast expertise in all facets of his work. Dr. Donald E. Craven has been in practice for more than four decades and is currently serving as Chairman of the Center for Infectious Disease and Prevention within the Lahey Clinic in Burlington, Massachusetts.

    Dr. Donald E. Craven gained his Medical Degree in 1970 from Albany Medical College in Albany, New York. He subsequently completed a residency and fellowship at McGill University in Montreal, Quebec, before undertaking an additional fellowship in infectious disease at the Boston University School of Medicine in Massachusetts. He then carried out research at the National Institutes of Health.

    In addition to his clinical work, Dr. Craven serves as Professor of Medicine at the Tufts University Medical Center and Tufts University School of Medicine. He is board certified in Infectious Diseases by the American Board of Internal Medicine, and maintains a professional membership with the Infectious Diseases Society of America. For his hard work and dedication, Dr. Craven received them Kenneth Kaplan Award for Excellence in the Practice and Teaching of Infectious Diseases by the Massachusetts Infectious Diseases Society.

    also he is one of 'Boston Super Doctors'


    yeah, he doesn't know about lyme LOL

    I am the one who doesn't know 1/100th of what Dr. Craven knows

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    all I can agree with for anything is check for ticks after every ride you should be
    all set for lyme. Other tick infections will be plainly evident (still a problem but they don't hide, you get sick hard and fast) and there is a nasty one Powassan (which is a virus) with no certain good advice how to proceed

    spray your legs with deet before going in the woods

  65. #65
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    127,

    There's a number of respected doctors, like your doctor, who argue that Chronic Lyme doesn't exist.

    However, there's also a large number of doctors and scientists, with similarly noteworthy credentials, who believe that Lyme persists.

    Simply posting your doctors credentials doesn't really prove anything here.

    I'll tell you what, a little later I'll post some links to literature that shows Borrelia can SOMETIMES persist beyond Doxy/Rocephin treatment, and maybe you can form your own opinion.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradiseburning View Post
    127,

    There's a number of respected doctors, like your doctor, who argue that Chronic Lyme doesn't exist.

    However, there's also a large number of doctors and scientists, with similarly noteworthy credentials, who believe that Lyme persists.

    Simply posting your doctors credentials doesn't really prove anything here.

    I'll tell you what, a little later I'll post some links to literature that shows Borrelia can SOMETIMES persist beyond Doxy/Rocephin treatment, and maybe you can form your own opinion.


    then go get a PICC line installed and do a month on ceftriaxone.

    have you done that yet ?

    if not, you are missing the second 'gold standard' in Lyme treatment. no one wants a tube inserted into their arm that goes to the heart, no one wants to pay for it (3 grand to install, and private nurse for supervising it while you have it installed) but that is the frickin way to go after lyme if doxy won't do it.

    seriously. get er done.

    I am done with this thread. it makes me itchy. don't bother I won't read it.

  67. #67
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    Me - "I'll show you scientific evidence that your view is flawed"

    You - "I'm leaving".

    Rock solid.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    Its why I carry one of these with me.

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    does it even work?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    There is a tool you can get to remove ticks without squeezing them. It has a tapered slot you slide under the tick to lift it out,
    does this thing work?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradiseburning View Post
    Me - "I'll show you scientific evidence that your view is flawed"

    You - "I'm leaving".

    Rock solid.
    I lied. I came back

    it is impossible to show scientific evidence on the internet in this forum

    you need to go to a medical library where the published journals reside, or
    entry into a university research store. copy/paste is untrustable on an MTB forum.

    in fact, I am a cat, randomly bumping the keyboard. prove I am not.


    hey all I know is I can ride the f out of bikes now, lyme tried to change that
    but Dr Craven fixed me. ymmv

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    does this thing work?
    I find tweezers work the best. Just grab it as low as possible (ie. close to your skin).

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    I lied. I came back

    it is impossible to show scientific evidence on the internet in this forum

    you need to go to a medical library where the published journals reside, or
    entry into a university research store.
    copy/paste is untrustable on an MTB forum.

    in fact, I am a cat, randomly bumping the keyboard. prove I am not.


    hey all I know is I can ride the f out of bikes now, lyme tried to change that
    but Dr Craven fixed me. ymmv
    You living in the 1980's or something? Pretty much every medical and scientific journal publishes online.

    I am glad you're better though. Just make sure you appreciate every ride that much more. Hopefully one day I can do the same.

  73. #73
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    At this point isn't it worth mentioning to your doc that you mtb and Lyme is a possibility if something is out of whack enough to go to the doctors?


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    Quote Originally Posted by basso4735 View Post
    At this point isn't it worth mentioning to your doc that you mtb and Lyme is a possibility if something is out of whack enough to go to the doctors?


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    Absolutely.

  75. #75
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    Paradise, I don't know if you can extrapolate the data from Rickettsia to burgdorferi. The tick salivary proteins play a huge role in both transmission and in setting up the right environment for burgdorferi. That is why you need good long feed to get efficient transmission. Experimental conditions which use just feed ticks from burgdorferi infected rodents are poor models for this.

    Also, giemsa stains are good for parasites without a centrifugation step (just blood) but not so good for bacteria. You most likely know this but maybe you have a co-infection with something like Babesia? Very common and many people who get Lymes and don't recover have this.

    Cysts generally are taken care of immunologically so when the bacteria revert, the immune system can take of the cyst. Bio-films are another story and the evidence for burgdorferi-bioflms in places like skin and joints is not very strong.

    What I do agree is looking out for your own health. Physicians will try to solve A with B. When it works, it works. When it does not, they try to solve A with B...
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Paradise, I don't know if you can extrapolate the data from Rickettsia to burgdorferi. The tick salivary proteins play a huge role in both transmission and in setting up the right environment for burgdorferi. That is why you need good long feed to get efficient transmission. Experimental conditions which use just feed ticks from burgdorferi infected rodents are poor models for this.

    Also, giemsa stains are good for parasites without a centrifugation step (just blood) but not so good for bacteria. You most likely know this but maybe you have a co-infection with something like Babesia? Very common and many people who get Lymes and don't recover have this.

    Cysts generally are taken care of immunologically so when the bacteria revert, the immune system can take of the cyst. Bio-films are another story and the evidence for burgdorferi-bioflms in places like skin and joints is not very strong.

    What I do agree is looking out for your own health. Physicians will try to solve A with B. When it works, it works. When it does not, they try to solve A with B...
    You're right about not extrapolating one thing to another.

    I just think the idea of that study was that if spirochetes are in the ticks salivary glands, then transmission can occur "immediately after attachment of the tick to the host".

    Either way, you'd probably want to keep an eye out for symptoms regardless of how long the tick has been attached.

    I've been diagnosed clinically with Babesiosis, and taken some treatment for it, but I've never found Babesia in any of my red blood cells under magnification, so I'm not sure. So many symptoms overlap with Lyme.

    I did test positive for Anaplasmosis, but have never seen an anaplasma morula in a white blood cell. The treatment for HGA is Doxycycline, which I did. Maybe I eradicated it.

    Positive for Lyme, that's easy to find under 1000x.

    I'm not sure about Giemsa staining not being for bacteria?

    Using a Giemsa or a Wright-Giemsa is usually the go-to to identify bacteria like Ehrlichia, Anaplasma, Mycoplasma, Bartonella, and Babesia (a protozoan) in a lab.

    Lastly, cysts are not typically taken care of immunologically. In fact, this is one of the main reasons Borrelia can persist, the immune system (in some people, not all) seems completely unable to eradicate them.

    Strengthening the immune system is obviously important, and the cysts tend to dislike certain antibiotics and herbs.

    You're last quote couldn't be more right, well put!

    As much as I love doctors, I've found many of them (and I've now seen dozens!) to be extremely stubborn.

  77. #77
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    ANYONE who wants FACTS about lyme, start with information on the ALDF web site.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ANYONE who wants FACTS about lyme, start with information on the ALDF web site.
    Unfortunately, not accurate once again.

    The ALDF is simply following the IDSA, who published those flawed Lyme Disease guidelines in 2006.

    These 2006 IDSA guidelines were based on cherry-picked scientific research conducted primarily by the board members themselves, and had significant flaws in them.

    I suggest you read the following journal article if you feel like gaining a better understanding of the situation. It chronicles some of the mistakes made by the IDSA when they published their guidelines (which ALDF now follows).

    Some of these mistakes include conflicts of interest, over reliance on 'expert opinion', suppression of information, etc.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2901226/

    Once again, this isn't conspiracy, but legitimate concerns within the scientific community.

    Furthermore, significant research has come out in the last 11 years, and the IDSA/ALDF have refused to update their position. The 2006 guidelines falsely state:

    You need to be living in a Lyme endemic area to acquire the disease
    False, we know Lyme can be acquired in basically every State in the US.

    You don't have Lyme disease if the ELISA is negative
    False, we know there's a false-negative rate of 20-50% because of immune complications.

    The tick must be attached for 36 hours
    False, there's good evidence that disease can be spread in much less time.

    Multiple antibiotics are not needed to kill Borrelia
    False, research shows in some situations it takes a combination of 3 antibiotics to completely eradicate the organsism in vitro.

    21 days of Doxycycline will eradicate all bacteria
    False, there's a mountain of research that shows Borrelia persists beyond extended antibiotic treatment.

  79. #79
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    would spraying deet on clothes kill ticks ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    would spraying deet on clothes kill ticks ?
    No but it may help to repel them possibly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    would spraying deet on clothes kill ticks ?
    no, you should were a one piece snow suit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    no, you should wear a one piece snow suit coated with permethrin.
    Fixed.

  83. #83
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    They make permethrin in an aerosol spray and it doesn't seem too toxic according to WebMD. It might be a good way to keep them out of the hair on your head, they'd be pretty hard to spot in there.


    Common and Rare Side Effects for permethrin Aerosol, Spray

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post
    They make permethrin in an aerosol spray and it doesn't seem too toxic according to WebMD. It might be a good way to keep them out of the hair on your head, they'd be pretty hard to spot in there.


    Common and Rare Side Effects for permethrin Aerosol, Spray
    Permethrin is intended for clothing.
    I'll stick to regular insect repellant with DEET for my body.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    no, you should wear a one piece snow suit.

    Ticks and Lyme Disease-16427414_1834896610131472_2754673146557538101_n.jpg


    Tick-mageddon on Mantario Trail overwhelms experienced hikers - Manitoba - CBC News
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    no, you should were a one piece snow suit.
    good idea. I will unpack my snow suit !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkat273 View Post
    Kill it with fire!
    where did you find this nest? this is a motherlode

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkat273 View Post
    Kill it with fire!
    ssshhh we don't want picard lighting any fire now do we.
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    There's some strange folk out there 'bouts. They have no sense of humor.
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  89. #89
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    DEET works to repel ticks. It works by confusing bugs' ability to track your CO2 "scent".

    Permethrin kills ticks. Spray it on your clothes. Almost odorless. Will remain effective through many washings. Cheap, easy, safe. Toxic to cats.


    I keep a tiny bottle of 100% DEET in a zip-lock baggy along with a small piece of rag. I spray the DEET on the rag then apply it to myself. A small bit goes a very long way. The 100% stuff seems much easier for me to tolerate vs spraying that aerosolized, perfumed weaker version all over. I like the little orange bottles from "Ben's" brand.

    Bough a big bottle of concentrated permethrin off Amazon for cheap. I have only a few pair of heavy Carhartts I wear outside, and they don't get washed much. About once a month I spritz each pair from the knees down.


    I'm outside in the woods an excessive amount of time. Deer ticks and Lyme are very prevalent in my area. Just treated a woman with Lyme myocarditis and meningitis last week. In the past I've pulled ticks off myself, but not in at least the last 5-7 years. My whole family is outside a lot and for some reason we've been lucky enough to not get tick bites, while others around us frequently do. One very shaky theory I have is we "dip" our dogs, and they are inside often and with us almost all the time. Maybe enough of the dip gets on us?


    IMO the permethrin might be a better choice if wearing pants. Its just so easy to use. I use DEET on my bare legs, neck, and face, mostly to keep away the black flies and mosquitoes.


    Lot's of info out there on Lyme. I'd recommend going by the CDC's recommendations.

  90. #90
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    Does Durham forest have ticks?

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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    This tick nest thing was found at one of our parks here,


    Click image for larger version. 

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    if you see this stay away far away. Also contact the city and they should take care of it.
    wow. I will bring flame thrower next time to burn it to ashes

  92. #92
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    F*ck Cancer

    Eat your veggies

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    Decided to make 2018 the summer of getting serious about ticks. I fired off an order of permethrin for a stab at diy protection. Curious to know what luck anyone's had more recently with obtaining permethrin-treated clothing that is factory-treated ( and said to be longer-lasting as a result) ? I'm also finding a bit of a disconnect with how tiny these things are and how many people casually report finding them and picking them off as if it was easy, nothing to it. Closest experience I have is nit-picking and it's comparatively easy since it's restricted to the head, except it's still quite difficult. Also thinking a more concerted attempt to keep the greenery at bay along the trail (ie widening the clearcut so to speak) would be a relevant approach. But what actually would riders think about singletrack that wasn't so narrow anymore? (not talking about trees of course, but perhaps anything short of that). And lastly, there's the idea of employing the city of Toronto's own sweep method to keep a closer eye on the central Don.

  94. #94
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    Found some dead ones in my (permethrin treated) pant cuffs today. Also a live one on my (yet to be treated this year) jacket.Ticks and Lyme Disease-cc.jpg
    Ticks and Lyme Disease-gle9ctfr5wpum2p6rx1rnvctpjvj1rxarcg5eterz9spx92ib.jpg
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    Baby ticks are much smaller than those, almost impossible to see without a powerful magnifying glass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckeieio View Post
    Found some dead ones in my (permethrin treated) pant cuffs today. Also a live one on my (yet to be treated this year) jacket.Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Very nice.

    Ticks beware!

  97. #97
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    Subscribing. Plan on some riding in Perthshire, which is tic-central here in Scotland. My wife has a friend who's husband got Lyme three years ago. He's still very unwell and has been unable to work for three years! Some days he can't even think straight. It's no joke.

  98. #98
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    Question. If you buy those essential oils, how do you use them? Do you dab them on your clothes? Dilute them into a spray?

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    chuckeieio, location where you picked those ticks up?

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by castlefield View Post
    chuckeieio, location where you picked those ticks up?
    Scarborough. Highland creek/Guildwood area. This is nothing compared to some areas in Pickering.
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    Good to know. I ride Seaton and Greenwood a bit in pickering.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Question. If you buy those essential oils, how do you use them? Do you dab them on your clothes? Dilute them into a spray?
    By "essential oils" are you referring to permethrin?

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    By "essential oils" are you referring to permethrin?
    Hardly. You've skimmed haven't you? ;0)

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    Another recent article to share


    How to Protect Yourself From Mosquitoes and Ticks

    Just when you thought it was warm enough to venture outdoors again, health officials are warning that the number of Americans infected by mosquito, tick and flea bites has more than tripled in recent years.

    Tick-borne diseases like Lyme and Rocky Mountain spotted fever have been increasing in the Northeast, Upper Midwest and California, and mosquitoes may be carrying West Nile virus and, in some parts of the United States, Zika. The only flea-borne disease is plague, but it, thankfully, is extremely rare.

    There’s no magic pill or vaccine to prevent disease infections, but you can take steps to protect yourself and your family from bites — and it all starts with awareness, physicians and consumer advocates say. “Recognize that this is a problem that’s worthy of your time and attention,” said Dorothy Leland, director of communications for Lymedisease.org, a patient advocacy organization.

    “This is one concern in life that’s preventable by following some simple guidelines, so it’s worth taking precautions,” said Dr. David Weber, a professor of medicine and medical director of UNC Hospitals’ departments of epidemiology and occupational health service, and a member of the hospitals’ Zika Response Working Group.

    Here are measures you can take, some of which provide two-for-one protection against both ticks and mosquitoes.

    Cover up, even when it’s hot out

    “Build a protective shield around yourself,” Ms. Leland recommends. If you’re going hiking in tick country, wear long pants, long sleeves, shoes and socks, and tuck your pants into your socks to avoid any exposed skin around the ankles.

    Wear a hat and a bandanna around your neck to cover up even more skin; if you have long hair, pull it back into a ponytail or braids.

    Consider purchasing clothing that has been pre-treated with the insecticide permethrin, which repels both ticks and mosquitoes, though it may be less effective against ticks.

    Just spraying closed shoes with permethrin can be effective, Ms. Leland suggested. “There are studies that show that just protecting your feet can do an amazing job against ticks because they tend to be low to the ground, so their entry point is that they often climb up on your shoes and keep going and get to your skin,” she said.

    Mind where you’re going, and avoid areas that are especially attractive to ticks, like tall grassy fields, said Dr. Weber.

    “Ticks don’t fly and they don’t jump,” Dr. Weber said. “They live on grasses, and when a human goes by, they leave the grass and attach themselves to the human.” He recommends staying in the center of a trail when walking in the woods and avoiding bushy areas and grasslands. Avoid sitting on downed logs, where ticks like to nestle, Ms. Leland said.

    Use insect repellent on exposed skin

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Environmental Protection Agency recommend using mosquito repellents that have as their active ingredient either DEET; picaridin; IR3535; oil of lemon eucalyptus (OLE) or para-menthane-diol (PMD); or 2-undecanone.

    Only DEET, picaridin and IR3535 are effective agents against ticks, and will require higher concentrations than when used against mosquitoes, so read the package labels carefully and reapply as needed. (Wirecutter, a New York Times Company that reviews products, has a list of the best bug repellents.)

    Adults should apply repellent to children, but not to very young infants, Dr. Weber said. Babies under 2 months should not use repellents and OLE and PMD should not be used on children under 3. For all children, avoid putting repellents on their hands, or near their eyes and mouths. If you’re also using sunscreen, apply the sunscreen first, and then the mosquito repellent afterward.

    Check yourself for ticks after a hike

    Take a shower after your hike and check yourself for ticks. Make sure to feel your scalp under your hair, and check folds of skin, your private parts, behind your ears and behind your knees.

    Parents should check their children, and adults should have someone else check their backs.

    “Look in your clothes for ticks,” Dr. Weber suggested, and throw them in the dryer on high heat if you’re concerned. “Do a full body check by looking in a mirror, and check hidden spots: behind the knees, the waist area, the bellybutton. That’s where they like to hide.”

    Showering may wash away ticks that are riding on you, but if you find a tick that’s embedded in the skin, use pointy tweezers to remove it (you can get more detailed instructions online). “Grasp it and pull it straight out, slowly but firmly,” Ms. Leland advised.

    And don’t forget to check your dogs when they come in from outside, taking care to protect yourself while you’re checking them. “Dogs, particularly those with long hair, can be a magnet for ticks,” Ms. Leland said.

    Minimize exposure in your home and yard

    Mosquitoes breed in fresh water and can reproduce in as little as a bottle cap full of water, so rid your yard and deck of empty flower pots, bird baths or bowls where water can accumulate. (If you keep a dog’s water bowl outside, empty and refresh it frequently).

    Make sure your window screens are intact — “it doesn’t take a very big hole to let mosquitoes in,” Dr. Weber said. It’s best to use air-conditioning if you can, as mosquitoes are less active in cooler air.

    Practice defensive gardening to make your yard inhospitable to ticks. Use fencing to keep out deer that carry ticks, prune trees, keep the grass cut short by mowing often (sorry!), clear leaves and remove overgrowth from the outdoor areas you use the most. (Wirecutter also has a list of the best bug killing gear.)

    Depending on where you live, you may want to use sprays as well. Check your local, state or county health department website to learn more about local conditions. For more information, consult the Connecticut Agricultural Experiment Station Tick Management Handbook.

    Another surprisingly easy low-tech way to protect yourself from mosquitoes is to set up an electric fan on a table near your seating area. The breeze it creates disperses the human scents that draw female mosquitoes, and mosquitoes have a hard time flying into the wind. The method is endorsed by the American Mosquito Control Association, a nonprofit group that publishes a journal.

    And if you’re camping outdoors or don’t have screens on your windows, use mosquito nets around your bedding.

    sauce and links: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/01/w...FUyRaQodea4NGA
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  105. #105
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    This shows me that we must be diligent in our research about things on the internet. I did quite a bit myself over the last couple years and found that DEET is NOT any deterrent to ticks and is quite toxic to the human body.

    I also found that Permethrin is one of the only tick repellents that actually WORKS and is not toxic. Treat your clothing properly and you're golden. Spray clothing thoroughly until damp let dry for an hour or so...no smell and good for claimed 6 machine washings, i do mine monthly because I'm paranoid, lol. It cannot be used on exposed skin because our body oils render it useless. It's been proven that ticks that attach to treated clothing fall off or will die if they stay on clothing longer than 90 seconds.

    For exposed skin, the Mrs makes a spray for me containing, lemon grass oil, eucalyptus and citronella. Although I don't have much exposed skin, just neck & face I use it. Now I'm not a highly educated man but I'm self employed and take all the precautions I can. Knock on wood I have not had a tick on me in the last 3 yrs. Lucky? Maybe but I'll keep being cautious.

    FYI I use 38% permethrin and mix 3oz to gallon of water and empty in to a spray bottle to treat my riding clothes (everything I wear)

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdb85 View Post

    FYI I use 38% permethrin and mix 3oz to gallon of water and empty in to a spray bottle to treat my riding clothes (everything I wear)
    When I looked at the 38% formulation, it only seemed to be available at that concentration with the petroleum based solvent. Did you find water-based or just put up with any (possibly minimal) odour due to the solvent?

  107. #107
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  108. #108
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    So ya pickering area does have ticks. Just pulled one off of my private member... Pretty sure I got it out complete and was within an hour of riding. I've kept him just in case. Now do I bother going to a walk in clinic am I over thinking it? First time I've pulled off a tick.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by castlefield View Post
    Just pulled one off of my private member... Pretty sure I got it out complete and was within an hour of riding.
    Ewe, nasty. The better news is that they reckon that if you remove the tick quickly, there is little chance of it transmitting disease. For some reason it takes many hours for them to infect you. Hopefully you're in the clear.

  110. #110
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    Family pestered me to see a Dr. He gave me a dose of anti biotic. And said to drop the tick off for testing.

    Time to get me some Pyrethrin

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay. View Post
    When I looked at the 38% formulation, it only seemed to be available at that concentration with the petroleum based solvent. Did you find water-based or just put up with any (possibly minimal) odour due to the solvent?
    Sorry for the slack response. Every time I've treated my clothes and let them dry for a couple hours there has never been ant type of residue or odor what so ever, none.

  112. #112
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    hmmm

  113. #113
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    Durham Region is going to have a booth at the DMBA Demo Festival on June 2nd with information on vector based diseases - West Nile and Ticks - might be worth attending to hear the news from the people that actually know... at least with what is going on in Durham Region.

    To come and talk to them it costs nothing.

    D
    Somewhere lost in the Bush!

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay. View Post
    When I looked at the 38% formulation, it only seemed to be available at that concentration with the petroleum based solvent. Did you find water-based or just put up with any (possibly minimal) odour due to the solvent?
    No odour reported on dried clothing, but...
    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    ...
    In the comments they mention that permethrin is available in concentrations of 10% and 38%, but at those concentrations it's cautioned that you need ventilation and gloves (check their safe handling instructions).

    Also mentioned is that some people soaking or spraying from DIY solutions from the concentrates sometimes have a minor skin reaction. This is attributed to the higher concentrations of petroleum distillates in the concentrated solutions, as when they buy premade 0.5% spray solution they don't react, and that is said to be mixed with water, with low or no petroleum distillates.
    More permethrin & DIY info here http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/tic...g-1079081.html
    Great info with multiple pages here https://sectionhiker.com/permethrin-soak-method-guide/
    Also: permethrin kills cats.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  115. #115
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    A disease-carrying, newly invasive tick to the United States, the Asian longhorned tick, is poised to spread across much of North America, suggests a new study published Thursday in the Journal of Medical Entomology. According to the study, the tick might be able to live anywhere from Southeastern Canada to most of the eastern half of the U.S. and even parts of the West Coast.

    https://gizmodo.com/the-new-bad-tick...ted-1831079855
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  116. #116
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    I've been taking precautions for all my rides... it's not too early to spritz repellent. My fb friends are reporting ticks on their pets and on themselves over the last few weeks

    Experts Warn Of A Massive Tick Infestation In Canada This Summer And It's Spreading

    As the weather warms up in Canada we're going to start seeing a lot more bugs and some of them can be pretty dangerous. One of the worst bugs is ticks, which can spread Lyme disease to both humans and animals. Unfortunately, ticks are spreading in Canada and experts warn that now six provinces are at risk.

    Previously ticks were only a minor problem in Canada since our climate was too cold for them, but as Canada has gotten warmer with climate change, ticks are better able to survive here. Not only are they surviving, but they're spreading further and further into the country. Now six provinces are dealing with tick problems, including Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and BC.

    As Nick Ogden, from Canada’s National Microbiology Laboratory told Global News, "By and large, Canada has been climatically unsuitable for the ticks but in recent decades Southern Canada has warmed, making it a much better place for ticks to set up home once they’re dropped in by migratory birds."

    That's why the southern areas of those six provinces are seeing more and more ticks. Cities like Thunder Bay, Ottawa, The GTA, Gatineau, Centre-du-Québec, Winnipeg, Brandon, Moncton, Fredericton, Saint John, Halifax, and Cape Breton, among others are especially at risk. The ticks in BC are a different species than the ticks in these cities, but they are still a concern.

    The biggest risk, of course, when it comes to ticks is Lyme disease. In the past ten years, the number of Lyme cases in Canada has grown exponentially. In 2009 there were 144 cases of Lyme disease reported in Canada. By 2017 this number was up to 2025 cases.

    Lyme disease is spread when ticks bite and attach themselves to humans. Dr Kieran Moore, the chief medical health officer in Kingston told Global, "[ticks] want to have at least 72 hours to have a good long blood meal from us and they have an anesthetic so you don’t feel that they’re there and they’re just getting bigger and bigger, like a juicy raisin on you, and then fall off.”

    The symptoms of Lyme include a bullseye shape rash, fever, chills, headache, muscle and joint pain, and swollen lymph nodes. If left untreated it can lead to more severe symptoms like neurological issues, heart problems, facial paralysis, and arthritis.

    The best way to prevent Lyme disease is to not get bit by a tick in the first place. Experts suggest wearing long sleeves and pants, in a bright colour, so you can notice if any ticks attach themselves to your clothes. They also recommend using a bug spray with DEET to help repel them.


    sauce https://www.narcity.com/news/ca/tick...se-6-provinces
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  117. #117
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    These little, insidious blood sucking parasitic bastards.

    To add to the above, from working with vets last year the consensus is they're turning up in places where they were unseen before, and are basically a risk as soon as the temps are above freezing.

    If you weren't already doing so, it's time to take these guys very seriously.
    ..now just tinker with our bikes and feed the cats. - oldbear52

  118. #118
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    Couple of things...

    1. DEET is *not* extremely toxic to the human body, it's actually one of the safest insect repellents ever invented. Granted, it doesn't work well against ticks.

    2. Permethrin is extremely, extremely toxic to cats. It's also basically impossible to get in Canada for clothes outside of the p-wash the Canadian Forces uses on uniforms. I predict 0% chance anyone will be able to source it in Canada from a Canadian source. You'll pay through the nose to get it shipped in from elsewhere in the world. Trust me, I've tried to get it.

    3. Pyrethrin is a different chemical, often confused with permethrin. Not the same at all.

    But yeah, not good times when it comes to tick risk. Best bet is to have your significant other give you a good going over naked after your ride! (take a shower first though lol)

  119. #119
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    I've been ordering my concentrated permethrin from pet supply places. Cheap and free shipping every month or two from this place in Australia. https://www.pets-megastore.com.au/do...ml-concentrate

    I use it on my dogs at half the concentration I put on my clothing. I know it's working as I find dead ticks in my rolled up pant legs.
    GTA
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  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toronto Goat View Post
    Couple of things...



    2. Permethrin is extremely, extremely toxic to cats.
    True as well as aquatic and amphibians but only before it dries. Once dry it is inert.
    GTA
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  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toronto Goat View Post
    Permethrin is extremely, extremely toxic to cats.
    Excellent.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toronto Goat
    It's also basically impossible to get in Canada for clothes outside of the p-wash the Canadian Forces uses on uniforms. I predict 0% chance anyone will be able to source it in Canada from a Canadian source. You'll pay through the nose to get it shipped in from elsewhere in the world. Trust me, I've tried to get it.
    Yup, I've tried and got to conclusion that it would be much easier to bring it back from US while on business trip. Flying home tomorrow with 1 liter of 36% concentrate.

  123. #123
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    Ticks are still active

    Lyme disease
    Learn how to avoid bites from blacklegged ticks, which may carry Lyme disease.


    Lyme disease is a potentially serious infection that you can get if you’re bitten by an infected blacklegged tick (also called a deer tick).

    Not all blacklegged ticks carry the bacteria that causes Lyme disease, and not everyone who is bitten by an infected tick will develop signs and symptoms of Lyme disease.

    What blacklegged ticks look like
    Blacklegged ticks are small and hard to see. They attach themselves to humans and animals and feed on their blood. They can range in size depending on how long they have been feeding.

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    Where blacklegged ticks live
    We continue to track where infected – and uninfected – blacklegged ticks are being found.

    Public Health Ontario’s Lyme disease page has a map (called “Ontario Lyme disease estimated risk areas map, 2019”) that shows areas in Ontario where they estimate you are more likely to find blacklegged ticks.

    Blacklegged ticks are spreading to new areas of the province because of climate change. They can also spread by traveling on birds and deer. While the probability is low, it is possible to find an infected tick almost anywhere in Ontario.

    Ticks are most active in spring and summer, but can be found at any time of the year when the temperature is above freezing.

    How to avoid getting a tick bite
    You might be at risk if you live, work in, or visit a wooded area, or an area with tall grasses and bushes (including city gardens and parks).

    You may also be at risk if you are involved in outdoor activities such as hiking, camping and gardening.

    You may be bitten by a tick and not even know it.

    Here’s what you can do to avoid getting a tick bite.

    Cover up
    Wear:

    1. light-coloured clothing, so it’s easier to see ticks
    2. closed-toed shoes
    3. long-sleeved shirts
    4. long pants, tucked into your socks

    Use insect repellent
    Use an insect repellent, or bug spray, that says “DEET” or “icaridin” on it. Put it on your clothes and exposed skin. Always read the label for directions on how to use it.

    Put clothes in the dryer

    Kill any ticks that might be on your clothing by putting your clothes in a dryer on high heat for at least 10 minutes before washing them.

    Check yourself and your children
    After being outdoors, check for ticks on yourself and your children. Look:

    1. behind your knees
    2. on your head
    3. in your belly button
    4. in your groin area
    5. in your underarm area
    6. on the back of your body – use a mirror, or ask someone to check for you
    7. It’s a good idea to have a shower as soon as you can to wash off any ticks.

    Check your pets for ticks
    After being outdoors, check your pets’ skin and remove any ticks you find.

    Ask your veterinarian about options to help keep ticks off your pets.

    Maintain your property

    You can help keep blacklegged ticks away from your property by:

    1. keeping grass mowed short
    2. trimming bushes and tree branches to let in sunlight (ticks avoid hot, dry locations)
    creating a border of gravel or woodchips one metre or wider around your yard if you’re next to a wooded area, or an area with tall grasses
    3. removing leaf litter, brush and weeds at the edge of the lawn and from stone walls and wood piles
    moving children’s swing sets, playground equipment and sandboxes away from wooded areas
    4. consider placing equipment on a woodchip or mulch foundation

    How to remove a tick
    Removing a tick is the same for humans and animals. It’s important you do not crush or damage the tick because it could cause Lyme bacteria to pass from the tick into your bloodstream.

    Use fine-tipped tweezers and grasp the tick as close to your skin as possible.
    Do not use a lit match or cigarette, nail polish or nail polish remover, petroleum jelly (for example, Vaseline), liquid soap or kerosene to remove the tick.
    Pull the tick straight out, gently but firmly.
    Do not jerk or twist the tweezers while pulling the tick out.
    Do not squeeze the tick – you might crush it.
    Once you have removed a tick, wash your skin with soap and water and then disinfect your skin and your hands with rubbing alcohol or an iodine swab.
    Put the tick in a secure container (for example, a bottle with a screw top so it can’t get out or be crushed) and contact your local public health unit.
    Why ticks are tested
    Tick testing is used to monitor where ticks live. This is why it’s important that you contact your local public health unit once you have a tick in a secure container.

    Tick testing is not used to diagnose Lyme disease in humans.

    Lyme disease signs and symptoms
    Most symptoms of Lyme disease in humans usually appear between three and 30 days after a bite from an infected blacklegged tick.

    You should contact your local public health unit or speak to a health care professional right away if you have been somewhere that ticks might live and experience any of the following symptoms:

    1. rash
    2. a bull’s-eye rash (a red patch on the skin that is usually round or oval and more than 5 cm that spreads outwards and is getting bigger
    3. a bruise-like rash (usually on darker skin tones)
    4. another type of unusual rash

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    fever
    chills
    headache
    stiff neck
    muscle aches and joint pains
    fatigue (more tired than usual)
    swollen lymph nodes
    spasms, numbness or tingling
    facial paralysis

    If not treated, Lyme disease can make you feel tired and weak and, if it gets really bad, it can even harm your heart, nerves, liver and joints. Symptoms from untreated Lyme disease can last years and include recurring arthritis and neurological problems, numbness, paralysis and, in very rare cases, death.

    Lyme disease diagnosis and treatment
    Your health care provider may diagnose you with Lyme disease depending on your signs, symptoms and risk factors. Laboratory testing is not always required to diagnose and treat Lyme disease infection.

    Most cases of Lyme disease can be treated successfully with antibiotics.

    sauce https://www.ontario.ca/page/lyme-dis...9-p_kTaj3ckZQ8
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  124. #124
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    The girlfriend and I were literally 200 km into our East coast foray vacation this summer when we received a call from our vet; Rocky our 6 month old shepherd-husky cross had tested positive for lyme disease. Although it rattled the first day of our vacation lyme disease in canines isn't as bad as it is fr humans. I think ~ 5% of infected dogs show symptoms. He seems to be symptom free and and as hyper and rambunctious as ever in his puppy stage. Picked up the tick in the Red Hill Valley of Hamilton. Ticks suck.
    "I love being on a bike. It helps me feel free. I get it from my dad", by Guillaume Blanchet

  125. #125
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cyclelicious again.
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggie View Post
    Rocky our 6 month old shepherd-husky cross had tested positive for lyme disease.
    So can humans get lyme disease from their dog?

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    So can humans get lyme disease from their dog?
    Not directly. An animal can transport an infected tick into your environment that then bites you, but can't directly transmit the virus.
    ..now just tinker with our bikes and feed the cats. - oldbear52

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