Strava?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 35 of 35

Thread: Strava?

  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5

    Strava?

    Hi All,

    New member here (or not new really seems that MTBR forgot about me?)

    Anyways, some of you might remember me from a public meeting or two either related to the East Duffins Headwaters (Glen Major/ Walker Woods Area in Uxbridge) or more recently Albion Hills Conservation Area, where I was lucky enough to be working with a few of you to do a trail plan or master plan or two.

    In any case, I know this is old hat to alot of you out there, but I thought why not ask the community instead of making it up as I go. The question is how many of you use Strava. Popular yes/no? What do you all use it for, if you do etc...

    Anyways let the discussion begin, and thanks in advance for bringing me into the fold!

    -A

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,657
    If you're asking if you should log in and start chasing KOMs, then I encourage you to run far away so you don't suffer the same horrible fate that befell the rest of us.

    If you're asking if the Strava global heatmap is a good tool for assessing the usage of existing trails, then yes, I suppose it is.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  3. #3
    Team NFI
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,302
    What is the intentioned use of the info gained here is the first question that comes to mind.

  4. #4
    humber river advocate
    Reputation: singlesprocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6,391
    the vast majority of riders don't use strava. i think it would be way more effective to put up a trail counter.

    this has been out there for a while...

    broadcasting from
    "the vinyl basement"

    build trail!

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5
    Hey All,

    Thanks for your feedback:

    Cruiser: I dont have any immediate intention of logging personal performance, I know how out of shape I am, I donít need any reminders! My interests were more professionally related.
    Sproket: As you know, at TRCA, we place counters at almost every property where we do any trail planning or trail development, so the idea wouldn't be to replace on the ground assessments of use.

    What is interesting however is to look at how TRCA lands are used in relation other areas by a broader riding population, in this case the Strava riding population.
    If you have a look at the Strava heat map for the GTA (Strava Global Heatmap) one thing that immediately jumps out at someone like myself, is that TRCA lands are hubs within the GTA for riding: Albion/Palgrave and EDH/Durham Forest stand out in what otherwise could be described as an "off-road riding desert". There are obvious reasons for this: Public land, promotions, community involvement, races etc... but all the same, it highlights the use of these lands by the riding community in contrast to other greenspaces or private lands in headwater areas.
    It is also interesting that when you look at a closeup of one property, for example Albion (Strava Global Heatmap), the Strava data set is not that far removed from the discussions we have had around the popularity of certain trails on the property. No surprises here: Riders like the single track. But if you look further, trails that have been highlighted as not so popular, do not light up as brightly; and conversely trails that have been highlighted as favorites shine.
    The question that jumps out, as well however is how representative of the broader riding community is the Strava data set. I have read the Strava FAQ (*Frequently Asked Questions | Strava) which discusses representation, but I thought I'd reach out to the Eastern Canada riding community to see what you all might think about it.
    Riding etiquette aside for a moment, the interesting thing about Strava, is that it is a crowd sourced, fairly raw and evolving snapshot of where a particular set of people are actually going in natural spaces and beyond. This type of information is something that a group like TRCA could never capture on its own via trail counters, surveys etc... But it is information that might help inform how our lands are being used.

  6. #6
    No. Just No.
    Reputation: Circlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Szaflarski View Post
    Cruiser: I dont have any immediate intention of logging personal performance, I know how out of shape I am, I donít need any reminders! My interests were more professionally related.
    Sproket: As you know, at TRCA, we place counters at almost every property where we do any trail planning or trail development, so the idea wouldn't be to replace on the ground assessments of use.
    Hi Adam,

    Welcome (back?) to MTBR. Your latest post puts a bit of a new spin on this thread. From the thread title and first post I also failed to ascertain that your inquiry was of a professional nature, in your official capacity - according to linkedin - of "Project Manager, Inventory, Audit and Planning at Toronto and Region Conservation (TRCA)". That may explain some of the other replies so far.

    Can Strava data be useful to you as a land manager in some way? Good question! Hopefully we'll get a few more people chiming in now that the topic has been clarified a bit.
    Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

  7. #7
    Lemmy Rules!
    Reputation: Unglued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,772
    I use Strava. I like it because unlike some, I race XC and I find it motivating as I go back to trails again to see if I am riding faster/slower, and to see what they guys I ride with/race against are up to.

    I don't much care about KOMs and competing virtually against other riders, but I do find it interesting to look at my heart rate/power/effort/average speed after a ride, and to be able to track my total mileage on each of my bikes in one spot.

    Strav*******s? Yes, there are some, including one guy who contacted a buddy of mine who took his KOM and basically accused him of cheating, but I find that they are the exception rather than the rule.

    There are also a couple of strava stalkers out there - ie people who I don't know at all but who are following me and give "kudos" every time I so much as swing my leg over the saddle (and I expect those of you who know me know exactly whom I am talking about). That's just weird...
    Strava made me do it....

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: secret agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    792
    I use Sportstracker. I used it to map out a number of road loops, so I know the distances. I also use it as a GPS in new places so I can find my way out and get an idea of how much riding I did. Apart from that, I don't bother tracking every ride. I can see it as a great tool for training and tracking progress. A group I know use it to compete with each other. Not just speed, but amount of riding. Nothing wrong with the app itself, but with the douchebaggery of users. It is a tool to be used in a number of ways; and abused in others. I heard bike thieves use to locate the homes of riders. I neve track right from the house on road rides. And then there's the stuff the video highlights plus the trail mods we all hear about.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dgage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    564
    Strava -no, Map my ride- yes only to keep track of my kms.
    Friends don't let friends cheer for the TML

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5
    Hey Guys,

    Tried sending a response but it seems that moderators need to review posts?

    Hopefully my thanks/ comments make it through...

    -A

  11. #11
    Looking for Adventure
    Reputation: Ricksom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,060
    Used a lot by roadies. They like the tool because they can always find a stretch of road that makes them look good for self congratulatory purposes, no matter how remotely the road is used.
    SUCCESS - To be able to spend life in your own way

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DrugStoreCowboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by Dgage View Post
    Strava -no, Map my ride- yes only to keep track of my kms.
    This is exactly what I do as well. I run MapMyRide, to which I sync my Garmin Edge 200. It's for my personal use only to see how I am doing much like Unglued. I don't make my stats public, couldn't care less about that.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,657
    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    people who I don't know at all but who are following me and give "kudos" every time
    No more kudos for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricksom View Post
    makes them look good for self congratulatory purposes
    You say this like it's a bad thing.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  14. #14
    No. Just No.
    Reputation: Circlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Szaflarski View Post
    Hey Guys,

    Tried sending a response but it seems that moderators need to review posts?

    Hopefully my thanks/ comments make it through...

    -A
    No moderator review of posts on this site, at least not prior to or at the time of posting. Maybe some IT security setup issue on your end?
    Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

  15. #15
    No. Just No.
    Reputation: Circlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    No moderator review of posts on this site, at least not prior to or at the time of posting. Maybe some IT security setup issue on your end?
    I'm wrong! Just checked the latest info for the moderator group. The site administrators and managers have been experimenting with some new spam control methods and plug-ins. This Eastern Canada forum doesn't get much, but some of the other MTBR forum sections get hammered by spam from time to time and it's really poor for the user experience, so the admins have been trying to fight back, so to speak. However, The effect for new user accounts (like Adam's) is that they may need moderator approval to submit posts that have links and/or images. Unfortunately, these go into an approval queue that is monitored by moderators other than myself, so we'll just have to wait for it to get processed. Apparently it is being checked a few times daily.
    Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

  16. #16
    Looking for Adventure
    Reputation: Ricksom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,060
    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post


    You say this like it's a bad thing.
    I tried to be neutral. Did it not show?
    SUCCESS - To be able to spend life in your own way

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5
    Thanks Circlip. That definitely explains it, as I did post links to a few perspectives on the Strava Heat map I wanted to highlight. An unsuspecting algorithm would probably read it as spam....

    In a nutshell, I was trying to explain my interest in the Strava data in the context of public land planning. The main interest being that it provides another perspective beyond our regular trail monitoring through trail counters, biennial trail inventories and public surveys.

    I found it interesting that in the GTA, TRCA lands light up like highways for cycling but not so much in the broader 905. In the rural areas 2 areas in particular: the Albion Hills/ Palgrave Area in Caledon along with the EDH/Durham Forest in Uxbridge come up as two very clear hubs for cycling activity. That is certainly no surprise, but it is very interesting that the Strava map also seems to echo the some of the sentiments of the Cycling Community as heard through our advisory groups.

    Its also interesting to see that those two areas are being used so heavily by the Strava users, sometimes almost exclusively, vs other publicly accessible natural spaces in the same area....

    Any ways, a more developed thought process is in my original note, if it ever gets through I would love to hear the community's perspective.

    Thanks again,

    -A

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    592
    I thought I'd chime in here.

    I'm in Ottawa and we do a lot of riding in the Gatineau Park on the Quebec side of the river, which is managed by the National Capital Commission (NCC). I have been working directly with the trails manager for the park on some advocacy issues on behalf of OMBA, our local IMBA affiliated club. We have been working with them to get their trail maintenance standards changed, opening more single track to legitimate MTB use and hopefully get some fat bike trail access this winter (bikes are banned anywhere in the park between December 1st and May 15th).

    What has recently become apparent is the NCC are using Strava heat maps to locate unofficial trails in the Park. They have the official map now overlaid with the unofficial trails (i.e. the singletrack everyone like to use). They have started public consultations and environmental reviews of these trails now. Some may get opened to recreational use, including bikes. Many will get closed to everyone if they are deemed unsustainable or if they infringe on protected species (Federally or Provincially protected species).

    So, Strava makes secret trails no longer secret because there is always some uncontrollable portion of the user base who have to Strava everything they do and don't know how to change the settings from public to private. These are the Strava$$holes.

    Why do unofficial trails exist? Generally because the official trails have been converted into wide gravel highways that are no longer fun to ride on anything but a gravel grinder drop bar bicycle. They didn't used to be this way but over the years the emphasis has been on making these trails easier to groom for XC skiing rather than on the cycling experience the rest of the year.

    So, if you like to ride "secret trails" and you bring newbies to ride them let them know what's up. No Strava. No public GPS maps. Keep the single track single.

  19. #19
    Looking for Adventure
    Reputation: Ricksom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,060
    Good point. Last thing we need is for government to know everything we do.
    SUCCESS - To be able to spend life in your own way

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,657
    Note also that the global heatmap can influence the popularity of trails, rather than just document it.

    Riders new to an area who use this tool are likely to look for the bright lines on the map and ride them.

    Popular trails get more popular, faint trails get fainter.

    Some more considerations:

    - The heatmaps work not by lines, but by trackpoints. Since most GPSs log by time interval, this means that trails that are typically ridden slower will be brighter than those ridden faster, all other things being equal.

    - Heatmap heat is relative. It takes a decent number of passes to get a trail to show up at all on the map if popular trails are in the same area. There are a number of obscure trails that I ride and log to strava that are too faint to see on the map. I am not worried about secrecy on any of these, FTIW.

    - Winter riding on frozen everything has potential to distort things with the rise of fatbike popularity. When the heatmap trail goes up the river, that might be a sign...
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  21. #21
    db9
    db9 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    201
    While I don't use Strava or any other 'system' the area's that you are highlighting (Albion/Palgrave) may be hot for other reasons and Strava only confirms the fact that
    a) Durham & Albion have racing programs - meaning that riders who are competitive will 'train' - training also involves keeping track of rides and times - hence the use of Strava (which adds to the heat map)
    b) look at Kelso - also a racing venue - it also shows on the heat map
    c) these riding areas are also basically the only single track located (generally) in the 905. Population density being what it is - where are people going to ride? To make a statement that states that the TRCA land use is echoed by the cycling community thru the advisory groups really only means that the available 'trails' are being used and are popular.

    if more single track was built - by adding more locations - they over time would also be explored and eventually they would also light up the map.

    Just my 2 cents

  22. #22
    humber river advocate
    Reputation: singlesprocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6,391
    good points, the flaw with the strava system is that it only highlights trails system that are popular with strava users. not trails that are popular/desired by other members of the riding community that don't use strava. i would like to see some figures on what percentage of the overall gta mountain biking community uses strava? i'm guessing it is around 1%. in fact an argument can be made that a high volume of strava users on a trail system can be a reason to avoid that area as the trail/terrain experience is less diverse. i think what this data shows that we need more diverse trails systems (especially albion and palgrave) to attract the other members of the riding community.







    Quote Originally Posted by db9 View Post
    While I don't use Strava or any other 'system' the area's that you are highlighting (Albion/Palgrave) may be hot for other reasons and Strava only confirms the fact that
    a) Durham & Albion have racing programs - meaning that riders who are competitive will 'train' - training also involves keeping track of rides and times - hence the use of Strava (which adds to the heat map)
    b) look at Kelso - also a racing venue - it also shows on the heat map
    c) these riding areas are also basically the only single track located (generally) in the 905. Population density being what it is - where are people going to ride? To make a statement that states that the TRCA land use is echoed by the cycling community thru the advisory groups really only means that the available 'trails' are being used and are popular.

    if more single track was built - by adding more locations - they over time would also be explored and eventually they would also light up the map.

    Just my 2 cents
    broadcasting from
    "the vinyl basement"

    build trail!

  23. #23
    db9
    db9 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    201
    I'd guess at the same time people are looking for trail maps - trail information on places to ride (as others have mentioned) - Strava is used as a means to explore as well. Proximity and time (available) will dictate where people will ride with the available time that they have. For me - my present life commitments sadly let me have time to ride infrequently (today its yard work and ice cream with my daughter which is a good thing) - for me to ride (Hardwood and points north) I need to book a day - so others like me, I'd suggest are time constrained and grab a ride locally.
    I support all the hard work done by the various groups and individuals who build and maintain and I would welcome more single track (how about Palgrave - west of Duffy's?) Expansion of area usage is alway a contentious issue with various groups interests.

    I might suggest that a good use of the Strava heat map be for maintenance of these trails - highlighting traffic areas that should/could be watched for excessive use and re-routing, improvements, new trails cut to protect these areas for future and current use and also use as a 'selling feature' for future trails.



    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    good points, the flaw with the strava system is that it only highlights trails system that are popular with strava users. not trails that are popular/desired by other members of the riding community that don't use strava. i would like to see some figures on what percentage of the overall gta mountain biking community uses strava? i'm guessing it is around 1%. in fact an argument can be made that a high volume of strava users on a trail system can be a reason to avoid that area as the trail/terrain experience is less diverse. i think what this data shows that we need more diverse trails systems (especially albion and palgrave) to attract the other members of the riding community.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    512
    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    good points, the flaw with the strava system is that it only highlights trails system that are popular with strava users. not trails that are popular/desired by other members of the riding community that don't use strava. i would like to see some figures on what percentage of the overall gta mountain biking community uses strava? i'm guessing it is around 1%. in fact an argument can be made that a high volume of strava users on a trail system can be a reason to avoid that area as the trail/terrain experience is less diverse. i think what this data shows that we need more diverse trails systems (especially albion and palgrave) to attract the other members of the riding community.
    I too would think a generic app like strava is possibly not optimal for this application. Perhaps the TRCA could create their own ride tracking app for free download. Then the question becomes how many TRCA customers carry a smartphone with them. If that isn't enough, maybe they could do something with RFID's. Hand 'em out at the gate or something. I ride occasionally at Albion and always have a great time there, don't use strava but do carry the phone. Keep up the great work!

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,657
    I'm guessing that in the Don the usage is at least 30%, based on the fraction of users I pass that I later see on flyby. Some days it's way higher. And the Don isn't a race venue, of course. But this may or may not have any relation to the out-of-town riding spots.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5
    Hey All,

    Great thoughts on the system, and very much appreciated!

    Circlip: Sorry if my intentions were not clear. Definitely not trying to hide, just trying to find additional ways to get involved!

    DB9: You are absolutely correct, that Albion, EDH/Durham, Kelso and others represent much of the 'sanctioned' single track in Southern Ontario, and in some respects, it is encouraging that they seem to be some of the most highly used areas. My Comment about 'echoing some of the sentiments" of the cycling community were very much targeted towards Albion Hills where we conducted surveys of the most popular single track trails, and held community meetings to talk about the trail system. The Strava map seems to have echoed those discussions. Mind you we fully recognize that the set is very heavily influenced by the races held on site.

    In the EDH however, there are no events, and the site still lights up. On some of the most popular trails, at least as much as those within the Durham Forest...

    Sproket: I entirely agree, it would be very interesting to see some figures on how many Southern Ontario MTB riders use Strava on a regular basis. Furthermore it would be interesting to parse out the use by riding style (XC, free ride, dh, urban, competitive/casual, etc....).

    On this last point I would be very curious to see what the results are. My thought is that although the set is likely to be skewed towards the competitive user, the set may be more diverse than we think. Have a look at Sunnyside Bike Park in Toronto for example, by no means a XC racing site. It does light up as well, if only faintly. A casual survey of other areas, sanctioned, non-sanctioned, racing and otherwise reveals similar results...

    I did check the Strava site to see if they had any user profiles, but couldn't find anything. For those of you who are interested, I did reach out to Strava with an inquiry last week, and am still waiting for a response. If there is an interest from the group, I can report back if and when I hear anything...


    Kay: On the RFID idea, very neat concept; haven't thought of it. budget and logistics permitting, maybe we'll move that way!

    Thanks again all,
    Last edited by Adam Szaflarski; 08-10-2015 at 12:22 PM.

  27. #27
    No. Just No.
    Reputation: Circlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Szaflarski View Post
    Circlip: Sorry if my intentions were not clear. Definitely not trying to hide, just trying to find additional ways to get involved!
    No apologies necessary. I was more that I was hoping with the clarification (if anyone else is as dense as I am) it may help to generate more responses than if it was a general Strava question, as that topic is a bit played out across the entirety of MTBR now.
    Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

  28. #28
    snowbound
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    240
    I am going to guess that the percentage of mountain bike riders that use Strava could be 10% in places like Durham forest, but much much lower across the entire sport.
    Looking at the segment B2-Big Butter in Durham.
    https://www.strava.com/segments/8613545
    The trail it covers was created in Oct 2014. Since that time it has had 429 unique riders. If only 10% of the riders in Durham use Strava, that would mean that 4,290 people had ridden this trail in the last 10 months. I am thinking this number is high - yes Durham forest is very busy - but this trail segment is not immediately accessible from the parking lot. It is also at the north end of Durham forest - and has never been used in any of the races. Again, just going by a very loose "guess" (based on being at the forest 3+- times per week, also pres, & long time member of the DMBA), I would think a more realistic number of people that would have ridden this trail might be 3,000. (Again, I could be wrong, but it is my best guess).
    (btw...Superfly Alley.. one of the original trails, and is regularly part of the races, has 663 unique strava riders on it - kind of surprised only that many but it is also one of the toughest trails in the forest)

    Durham forest races take place in one section of the forest, and maybe cover 5% of the trails in a race.


    Ok....looking at some more data in the area - the segment known as "snakes no ladders", an "original" trail and segment in EDH, and very popular - only 570 unique riders and 3701 "attempts". This is since 2011. So the average Strava user has recorded a ride 6.5 times on that segment of trail. Enough looking at numbers for now.


    Strava is an interesting business - they provide an app for tracking rides, comparing against others, we (riders, runners) upload all our data. Strava sells that data to land managers, city planners. I approached them last year about getting the stats for EDH & Durham (times of day, age/gender breakdown), they did offer a discount for non-profits, but it was still expensive.

  29. #29
    humber river advocate
    Reputation: singlesprocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6,391
    i also wonder how many people create sock puppets (multible accounts) on strava? interesting what you say about the sunnyside area (mg trail etc). this area see's a huge volume of riders passing through. yet it shows as a lite use area? this raises question on the validity of this data to build cycling infrastructure. i feel that the convenience of strava data over rides the data set limitations.
    broadcasting from
    "the vinyl basement"

    build trail!

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,657
    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    i also wonder how many people create sock puppets (multible accounts) on strava?
    So when they take someone's KOM, they can upload the ride to three different accounts and move the guy down to 4th place?

    Seems.... unnecessarily harsh.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  31. #31
    No. Just No.
    Reputation: Circlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
    So when they take someone's KOM, they can upload the ride to three different accounts and move the guy down to 4th place?
    I have a dozen different Strava accounts so that I can receive emails of me giving kudos to myself all day long. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing someone appreciates me.
    Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

  32. #32
    cmg
    cmg is online now
    passed out in your garden
    Reputation: cmg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,326
    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    I have a dozen different Strava accounts so that I can receive emails of me giving kudos to myself all day long. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing someone appreciates me.
    Kudos to you for going the hard yards
    always mad and usually drunk......

  33. #33
    humber river advocate
    Reputation: singlesprocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6,391
    strava killer... digital epo
    broadcasting from
    "the vinyl basement"

    build trail!

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,657
    Like real EPO, it is detectable.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: secret agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    792
    Why would one strava a session at sunnyside?

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-15-2014, 01:16 AM
  2. Replies: 50
    Last Post: 07-10-2014, 12:34 PM
  3. Use Strava?
    By Porch in forum New Mexico
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-29-2013, 10:46 PM
  4. Who else uses Strava???
    By Haus Boss in forum All Mountain
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-23-2011, 01:39 PM
  5. Anyone else on a HD on Strava?
    By Yody in forum Ibis
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-08-2011, 10:46 AM

Members who have read this thread: 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.