steel is real, frame suggestions?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    steel is real, frame suggestions?

    been missing having a steel hardtail in the stable lately. while fs bikes have been going gangbusters in design and materials. there is something to be said about having a basic steel hardtail. so my question to the ec forum is what do you suggest is a good steel hardtail? now there has been many refinements over the years to these bikes and the bikes are pretty capable... just wondering....
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  2. #2
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    True North, Dekerf, Mt Metalworks (from squamish BC) all offer nice steel tubed frames.

  3. #3
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    Ritchey, Niner... you could go crazy and get a Firefly or Independent Fabrications...

  4. #4
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    chromag or ewr
    it tied the room together man!

  5. #5
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    I know what I'd like to have ... off the shelf, a Salsa El Mariachi.
    Deep pockets, True North.
    Trek's Sawyer is an interesting looking thing, but I haven't
    looked at the numbers (geometry) so don't know if it would suit
    me.

    (Doesn't look like anyone is riding today eh?)
    Cheers, Dave

  6. #6
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    OnOne Inbred. Got a couple of them. And they have a steel fat tire bike coming out shortly.

  7. #7
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    The ElMar is a good bet, so is the Karate Monkey.

    Are you looking more XC or AM? Because there are some really cool frames available that could suit you nicely.
    -Eric
    Keeping the hardtail dream alive, one ride at a time.

  8. #8
    I dd what you see there.
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    CCM



    (just kidding)
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLNC View Post
    CCM
    What is wrong with you?
    Everyone knows that Supercycle is where it's at.


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
    OnOne Inbred. Got a couple of them. And they have a steel fat tire bike coming out shortly.
    Word is that they have a AM 29er frame in the works.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Word is that they have a AM 29er frame in the works.
    They have a 29er inbred, but I didn't see anything I'd call AM.

    Great value in their frames. Really happy with my whippet.

  12. #12
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    29 or 26?

    evil sovereign/faction, transition transam, commencal ramones

    if you're feeling rich, perhaps a brodie holeshot ti.

    if you want a 29er, disregard all of these
    RIP Adam Yauch

    "M.C. for what I AM and do, the A is for Adam and the lyrics; true"

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickboers View Post
    They have a 29er inbred, but I didn't see anything I'd call AM.

    Great value in their frames. Really happy with my whippet.
    Check the On One forum in the bikes section.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dskunk View Post
    I know what I'd like to have ... off the shelf, a Salsa El Mariachi.
    Deep pockets, True North.
    Trek's Sawyer is an interesting looking thing, but I haven't
    looked at the numbers (geometry) so don't know if it would suit
    me.

    (Doesn't look like anyone is riding today eh?)
    true north is nice but pricey for sure
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLNC View Post
    CCM



    (just kidding)
    hmmmm thinking about it...

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/W-rAv43UFnA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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  16. #16
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    Moots YBB.
    Strava made me do it....

  17. #17
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    Yeah, the YBB is an awesome steel frame.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by limba View Post
    Yeah, the YBB is an awesome steel frame.
    KHS Comp St Full Suspension Mountain Bicycle Bike MTB Shimano Deore Rock Shox | eBay

    This is pretty much the same thing as a Moots.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by veteran_youth View Post
    They both have the same amount of steel in the frame...
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    been missing having a steel hardtail in the stable lately. ... now there has been many refinements over the years to these bikes and the bikes are pretty capable... just wondering....
    Refinements?!?!?! In steel???? Seriously??????

    Your request is quite vague. Is there a price point? Specific type of riding? Favoured brand(s)? I've been happy with Surly and Kona, but not sure they're what you're after.



    I'm with Unglued - give me rust-free steel any day.
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

    ... and cookies. :D

  21. #21
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    Check out Pipedream Cycles. They offer the Skyline using Reynolds 931 Stainless tube set. Apparently this is the first production MTB with this tubing.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by esundell90 View Post
    The ElMar is a good bet, so is the Karate Monkey.

    Are you looking more XC or AM? Because there are some really cool frames available that could suit you nicely.
    looking for both... in one package. around 5lb range, shorter chainstays, 110mm fork setup.
    26" wheel... 29er is to sluggish in the air for my liking.

    like this frame

    f-bom Wirth Mountain bike frame
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO View Post
    Refinements?!?!?! In steel???? Seriously??????

    Your request is quite vague. Is there a price point? Specific type of riding? Favoured brand(s)? I've been happy with Surly and Kona, but not sure they're what you're after.



    I'm with Unglued - give me rust-free steel any day.
    yup, tweaking geometry, hydro forming, tube choice, etc... doin't want to give to much info, it's interesting what people come up with
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Check out Pipedream Cycles. They offer the Skyline using Reynolds 931 Stainless tube set. Apparently this is the first production MTB with this tubing.
    thanks enduramil, here's the link:

    Hardcore 853 Hardtail | Rohloff Speedhub Frame
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    Wow, that looks like and is described just like an Inbred - for 5 times the price. Not much in the way of geometry numbers there.

    If you are looking for something more all mountain, you might want to look at the 456
    On One 456 Evo Frame

    On One - Mtbr Forums

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill View Post
    They both have the same amount of steel in the frame...
    Didn't even notice the item description, which is wrong! It's most definitely a steel frame.

    Also didn't notice the $460 shipping quote, may as well get a Moots if that is the case.

  27. #27
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    Being (somewhat) serious now, I think you should look into getting a Handjob, and if that doesn't do it for you then try a Sanchez and see if that makes you happy. If that still doesn't work you're probably looking at an Implant.



    * that's what Cove and Dekerf named their bikes. Really.

  28. #28
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    hydroformed steel ? bwahahaha, have you even found any hydroformed steel frames online ? I doubt it.

    Sounds like you should go with a custom geo steel frame from a local framebuilder instead: then you have control over all the variables you listed.

    Also, I don't see anything special about the geo in the frame you posted, 72 HA isn't slack enough (imho, esp for AM), and 4130 general purpose cro-mo: fer real ?

    edit: didnt see pg 2...that sirius and scion look good (and more importantly, i approve the HA), as for the SS, what advantages would that offer over say an 853 tubeset ? weight savings of the paint ?
    Last edited by SkidVicious; 10-28-2012 at 09:35 AM.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    Being (somewhat) serious now, I think you should look into getting a Handjob, and if that doesn't do it for you then try a Sanchez and see if that makes you happy. If that still doesn't work you're probably looking at an Implant.



    * that's what Cove and Dekerf named their bikes. Really.
    Best tagline ever: "Can't afford a Hummer? Get a handjob."

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by veteran_youth View Post
    Best tagline ever: "Can't afford a Hummer? Get a handjob."
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkidVicious View Post
    hydroformed steel ? bwahahaha, have you even found any hydroformed steel frames online ? I doubt it.

    Sounds like you should go with a custom geo steel frame from a local framebuilder instead: then you have control over all the variables you listed.

    Also, I don't see anything special about the geo in the frame you posted, 72 HA isn't slack enough (imho, esp for AM), and 4130 general purpose cro-mo: fer real ?

    edit: didnt see pg 2...that sirius and scion look good (and more importantly, i approve the HA), as for the SS, what advantages would that offer over say an 853 tubeset ? weight savings of the paint ?
    hydroforming steel is pretty common in industry... i think an italian company is making bike tubesets now. just a matter of time before you start seeing it on the "web"

    while i agree 72 degrees is a bit steep, i think the magic # is around 70-71 degrees...
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by limba View Post
    Yeah, the YBB is an awesome steel frame.
    Last I checked, Titanium was a form of steel.
    Strava made me do it....

  33. #33
    No. Just No.
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    I'd drop a line to the folks at Xprezo and see if they have jigs and tooling kicking around somewhere for a hardtail with more progressive geo than the stock HTs they list on their web site. It's a bit of a longshot, since they don't hold themselves out as a custom or even semi-custom builder, but you have good connections at C-S, and C-S has good connections to Xprezo. Canadian made would be cool.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    Last I checked, Titanium was a form of steel.
    where did you check this?
    RIP Adam Yauch

    "M.C. for what I AM and do, the A is for Adam and the lyrics; true"

  35. #35
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    Steel is real, frame suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    Last I checked, Titanium was a form of steel.
    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    been missing having a steel hardtail.
    there is something to be said about having a basic steel hardtail.
    suggest a good steel hardtail
    Basic. Steel. Hardtail. The last time I checked the YBB was a titanium softtail. Awesome bike, a true classic but not at all what the OP asked for.

  36. #36
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    ns surge
    RIP Adam Yauch

    "M.C. for what I AM and do, the A is for Adam and the lyrics; true"

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    I'd drop a line to the folks at Xprezo and see if they have jigs and tooling kicking around somewhere for a hardtail with more progressive geo than the stock HTs they list on their web site. It's a bit of a longshot, since they don't hold themselves out as a custom or even semi-custom builder, but you have good connections at C-S, and C-S has good connections to Xprezo. Canadian made would be cool.

    ahhh xprezo, forgot about them. yes nice bikes, reminds me of balfa. balfa i think had a steel ht frame called the minute man?
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  38. #38
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    I kow you often go pretty blingy, but how about the Jamis Dragon 650B?

    120 mm of travel with the White Brothers Loop...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails steel is real, frame suggestions?-13_dragon650.jpg  

    Last edited by Biggie; 10-28-2012 at 04:03 PM. Reason: Added picture
    "I love being on a bike. It helps me feel free. I get it from my dad", by Guillaume Blanchet

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    ahhh xprezo, forgot about them. yes nice bikes, reminds me of balfa. balfa i think had a steel ht frame called the minute man?
    they did indeed.. extra long chainstays included
    RIP Adam Yauch

    "M.C. for what I AM and do, the A is for Adam and the lyrics; true"

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unglued View Post
    Last I checked, Titanium was a form of steel.
    Gosh I hope this is joke (said the engineer to the lawyer...).
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by limba View Post
    Basic. Steel. Hardtail. The last time I checked the YBB was a titanium softtail. Awesome bike, a true classic but not at all what the OP asked for.
    Agreed, but from what I know of Singlesprocket's riding style he likes blingy bikes, and probably wants something with a little bit of travel to take the edge off, and which can take a beating and last a long time. So, yeah, Moots YBB

    But based on his actual criteria as stated, if it were me it would be a Dekerf or a Brodie.
    Strava made me do it....

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine View Post
    ns surge
    This guy knows whats up.

    I'm not saying that because I own one or anything....
    -Eric
    Keeping the hardtail dream alive, one ride at a time.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    hydroforming steel is pretty common in industry... i think an italian company is making bike tubesets now. just a matter of time before you start seeing it on the "web"

    while i agree 72 degrees is a bit steep, i think the magic # is around 70-71 degrees...
    yes thats right, hydroforming has been around for about a half century or more in industry. and its been common in the bike industry for over 20 years (I believe the mountain cycle monocoque frames were sheet hydroformed then welded).

    In any case, no one makes a hydroformed steel hardtail. So now you're down to two of the three "steel refinements" you mentioned: tweaking geo and tube choice, to which I'll say again: custom frame (with a beer bottle opener like the minuteman used to have).

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine View Post
    they did indeed.. extra long chainstays included
    a blast from the past
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  45. #45
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    seems to be two camps here... the off the shelf frame or the custom built frame.

    lets explore the custom because the off the shelf is pretty straight forward...

    650b vs 26"?
    68-69-70 degree?
    16"-16.5" chainstays?
    110mm vs 140mm fork?
    12mm x145mm vs 135mm rear axle?
    tubing?
    tire clearance?
    broadcasting from
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkidVicious View Post
    yes thats right, hydroforming has been around for about a half century or more in industry. and its been common in the bike industry for over 20 years (I believe the mountain cycle monocoque frames were sheet hydroformed then welded).

    In any case, no one makes a hydroformed steel hardtail. So now you're down to two of the three "steel refinements" you mentioned: tweaking geo and tube choice, to which I'll say again: custom frame (with a beer bottle opener like the minuteman used to have).
    this steel frame has a hydroformed downtube
    Fire Eye Shortfuse 360 Frame 2012 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com
    RIP Adam Yauch

    "M.C. for what I AM and do, the A is for Adam and the lyrics; true"

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    seems to be two camps here... the off the shelf frame or the custom built frame.

    lets explore the custom because the off the shelf is pretty straight forward...

    650b vs 26"?
    68-69-70 degree?
    16"-16.5" chainstays?
    110mm vs 140mm fork?
    12mm x145mm vs 135mm rear axle?
    tubing?
    tire clearance?
    Take the Paul Brodie frame building class.

    Build your own custom steel ht while learning from a true master that has been at it since the beginning.

    Bicycle frame-building

    10,000x more rad than anything posted so far in the thread.

  48. #48
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    $2500 is steep. you can surely get a custom ti frame built for that price.
    RIP Adam Yauch

    "M.C. for what I AM and do, the A is for Adam and the lyrics; true"

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine View Post
    $2500 is steep. you can surely get a custom ti frame built for that price.
    Sure you can buy a custom for less.

    But you won't be learning any new skills, you also can't tell people you built it when asked trail side, and you won't get to spend time with one of the few living legends of the sport and frame building world.

  50. #50
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    if you have jigs and welding equipment in your garage i suppose it would be useful. but can you truly learn to weld in 10 sessions? plus i'd want to be able to go 650b while i'm at it and it's only partial custom as the jigs are already made.
    RIP Adam Yauch

    "M.C. for what I AM and do, the A is for Adam and the lyrics; true"

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    you can tell people you built it when asked trail side,
    My reaction to a guy that built his own steel frame - "Cool. Let's get going."

    My reaction to a guy riding a Trek, Giant, Specialized, etc. - "Cool. Let's get going."

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine View Post
    if you have jigs and welding equipment in your garage i suppose it would be useful. but can you truly learn to weld in 10 sessions? plus i'd want to be able to go 650b while i'm at it and it's only partial custom as the jigs are already made.
    You mis-understand the function of the jig in this case. The jigs are fully customizable.

    You can build any size any angle 26/650b/29'er you can imagine.

    Also you don't need jigs to build. There is plenty written on how to build amazing bikes with little more than some files, a brazing torch, and a flat surface.

    If you have mechanical aptitude you can be taught to weld or braze in 10 sessions.

    From your comments it's obvious that this isn't something you are interested in, that's fine. I was putting it out there for singlesprocket. From seeing his bike builds on here he usually likes something more unique than the norm, and he's talked about designing and welding his own bumpers for his Jeep. I figured it would be something he might be interested in.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine View Post
    well i stand corrected if that is the case: the fireeye website says nothing of HFing that downtube...and if they did, they added gussets which is weird since HFing is supposed to strengthen the tube junctions by flaring the tubes giving more weld area...but on the other hand, I heard that HFing realignes the grain, so the gussets would serve a purpose. anyway I quit on the HFing subdiscussion: I'm ruining SS's thread.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkidVicious View Post
    well i stand corrected if that is the case: the fireeye website says nothing of HFing that downtube...and if they did, they added gussets which is weird since HFing is supposed to strengthen the tube junctions by flaring the tubes giving more weld area...but on the other hand, I heard that HFing realignes the grain, so the gussets would serve a purpose. anyway I quit on the HFing subdiscussion: I'm ruining SS's thread.
    I have a 2010 Shortfuse 380, nearly identical to the 2012 360 except for the back end is sized for 26 instead of 24" wheels. The down tube has a gusset to the headtube, but is not hydroformed.

    The OTHER 2012 Fireye frames do have hydroformed tubes. The Shortfuse 380, Bloodshot, Flame and Spitfire.

  55. #55
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    Cotic Soul.

  56. #56
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    853 for sure

    try these guys then let me know how it went and ill order a single speed

    McShane Fatty Boom Batty - Pinkbike


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    Rocky Mountain Blizzard 20th Anniversary Model Frame Reynolds 853 18 5 Mint | eBay

    i have a niner sir9, ride it 90% of the time over my sc tallboy carbon
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by maynard View Post
    try these guys then let me know how it went and ill order a single speed

    [url=http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1209050/]Rocky Mountain Blizzard 20th Anniversary Model Frame Reynolds 853 18 5 Mint | eBay
    Awesome! The Blizzard was the bike that I salivated over before I could afford a high-end bike. When I got my first real grown-up job, it was between the Blizzard and the Klein Mantra Comp. As, at the time, I already had a steel Trek 970 (remember those?) I went with the Klein. I was not sorry about the choice but I still would love to have a Blizzard in my stable...
    Strava made me do it....

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