So how wet is Buckwallow now?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    So how wet is Buckwallow now?

    I'm coming from Ottawa for the O-Cup and I'm pondering tire choices... ahhh mountain biking. I typically race on a large-volume low-tread tire at Buckwallow (i.e. Pythons or Nanoraptor 29) Is it too slippery these days?

    Someone in the O-Cup thread mentioned riding the other day with Small Block 8s -- that was encouraging. But someone else also mentioned how treacherous it would be with semi slicks.... hmmm. Any up to the minute inside knowledge here?

    Thanks -- looking forward to the race.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanB
    I'm coming from Ottawa for the O-Cup and I'm pondering tire choices... ahhh mountain biking. I typically race on a large-volume low-tread tire at Buckwallow (i.e. Pythons or Nanoraptor 29) Is it too slippery these days?

    Someone in the O-Cup thread mentioned riding the other day with Small Block 8s -- that was encouraging. But someone else also mentioned how treacherous it would be with semi slicks.... hmmm. Any up to the minute inside knowledge here?

    Thanks -- looking forward to the race.
    Last Saturday when I was there, I was running Pythons. I was thinking a lot about tire choice, and decided i would not make a swap. Then it started to rain, and things got really wet. Though I was not moving at racing speed, I was still ok with my pythons. There was one corner where i slid a few times, but the soil is not really that slimy when wet for the most part.

    BlackCanoeDog also mentioned how he was surprisingly satisfied with his Michelin Dry2 tires while we were out in the rain. You still get traction on the rock when it is wet.

    However, things might get more dicey at racing speed, as you really try to push it in the corners. Regardless, I'll be sticking with what I've got - Pythons.
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  3. #3
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    I think SB8 or even Pythons are probably going to be challenging if it is really wet/muddy. And it looks like they will be getting plenty of rain before Sunday.

    I did my pre-ride with Pythons in front and Racing Ralph in the back, but I think I will change to Bonty ACX front and Continental Speed King Supersonic in the back. But I am a little nervous about the Speed Kings. At 400g it is pushing the limits.
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  4. #4
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    Thanks to both of you. Looks like I'll mount up something with a little more bite than the Pythons. It's an odd course -- the rocks in the techy are generally large and smooth, and the connector sections are flat, fast hardpack. Fast smooth tires (oddly) make a lot of sense. It's the most "mountain bike" course of the series but also the most "roadie" when you think of how much big ring high speed flat hammering there is... at least when it's dry -- mud should change everything. Should be interesting.

  5. #5
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    During Best Fest at Buckwallow a few weeks ago we had huge down pour just before our ride and there was water laying everywhere. I found the mud to be quite sandy and not that slippery but we were not racing either.

  6. #6
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    I was running 29er Exiwolfs, which is pretty big volume and a relatively low tread, at BestFest and I didn't have too many problems with grip. As icy said, the trails were drenched.

  7. #7
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    We have had thunderstorms and downpours here this afternoon (Thursday) for 3.5 hrs and it isnt done yet. Next 2 days call for 60% chance of showers, although race day should be dry and mostly sunny. No way its going to completely dry up by then. I would expect conditions to be very similar to last weekend for the races.

    ps. Thursdays are AO Mudslinger Race nights, should live up to its' name this week (-8
    Last edited by BlackCanoeDog; 08-07-2008 at 04:12 PM.

  8. #8
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    I purchased high volume Bontrager Revolt X' for this race. If its wet, would you reccomend a knobby?
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  9. #9
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    I say knobbies aren't essential for Buckwallow, you get suprisingly good grip even in the wet, but then again, I don't change my tires based on race conditions, so take that with a grain of salt.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanB
    Thanks to both of you. Looks like I'll mount up something with a little more bite than the Pythons. It's an odd course -- the rocks in the techy are generally large and smooth, and the connector sections are flat, fast hardpack. Fast smooth tires (oddly) make a lot of sense. It's the most "mountain bike" course of the series but also the most "roadie" when you think of how much big ring high speed flat hammering there is... at least when it's dry -- mud should change everything. Should be interesting.
    Mostly roadie? Don't think so... This is the furthest thing from a roadie course of the series. Nothing, even the doubletrack, is particularily smooth and due to the rock laden areas, finesse riding is in order. Flatness or not, this course is deceptively tough and not really prone to big ring hammering. I guess it's open to interpretation, but I will be sticking with the Pythons as changing tires due to some rain here and there is more challenging to me that sticking with what I am comfortable with under various conditions. Always one of the best stops on the OCUP circuit for sure though!
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  11. #11
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    Just got back. mike and crew have done a great job of keeping the mud at bay--many of the ruts have been filled. in fact, bike is the cleanest it's been in weeks. the course is flowy and fast. the highlight will be the section of bear bluff and nearly the entirety of loam rider a and b all in reverse.

  12. #12
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    Well I was there last weekend, it rained on sturday which made it pretty muddy but it dried out. Friday, Sunday and Monday it was beautiful, however with rain on Thursday thru Sunday it should make for an interesting race.
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  13. #13
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    I've swapped out my dry's for some XCR muds. They are now calling for rain all weekend. Not that the weatherman is ever right. It's going to be one to talk about.

    As for a roadies course. I'm a roadie and this is not a roadies course. Albion is a roadie course.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 24 solo
    They are now calling for rain all weekend.
    And NOW, there is only a 10% POP for Sunday. Don't trust the weathermen.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

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    10% Nope try 100% POP with a high of 16 degrees. COLD.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by knobbynewbie888
    10% Nope try 100% POP with a high of 16 degrees. COLD.
    Ok, the weather network is so totally F***ed up. I checked 5 minutes ago, and it was 10%. Now I see a 70%. Why do I even look?
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 24 solo
    I've swapped out my dry's for some XCR muds. They are now calling for rain all weekend. Not that the weatherman is ever right. It's going to be one to talk about.

    As for a roadies course. I'm a roadie and this is not a roadies course. Albion is a roadie course.

    Oh don't get me wrong, the tech sections certainly require "real" mountain biking skills but I've always felt that, skills assumed, the race favours someone who can put down a steady big gear effort throughout. Kind of like a road time trial. A place like Albion or the rest of the O-Cups for that matter may be smooth (i.e. "roadie") but they also have a lot of steep spikes that require the anaeorobic efforts mountain bikers are more familiar with.

    Have a good race!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanB
    Oh don't get me wrong, the tech sections certainly require "real" mountain biking skills but I've always felt that, skills assumed, the race favours someone who can put down a steady big gear effort throughout. Kind of like a road time trial. A place like Albion or the rest of the O-Cups for that matter may be smooth (i.e. "roadie") but they also have a lot of steep spikes that require the anaeorobic efforts mountain bikers are more familiar with.

    Have a good race!
    I see what you are saying, but people's skills vary a lot, and some people will be able to use that to their advantage, while others may end up battered and bruised.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  19. #19
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    I think they change the long term forecast hourly just to drive up page views and ad revenue.

    I've been glued to the page as well. For me, Buckwallow is enough of a problem when dry.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by chansen
    I think they change the long term forecast hourly just to drive up page views and ad revenue.

    I've been glued to the page as well. For me, Buckwallow is enough of a problem when dry.
    That's a clever scheme. Often, the ads are local, and hence more likely to appeal to somebody viewing the page as well.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  21. #21
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    Many transitions are from wet sandy loam to rock. Therefore, be careful not to ride really sticky tires, like my IRC Mirbo's, that hold the wet sand. As soon as I hit the rock, I was slipping for the first 6 feet as the sand cleared off the tires. I gather the Mirbo's are crappy tires anyway (they came with the bike), so I will probably get rid of them.
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  22. #22
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    Nemisis

    This course is my Nemisis! I love it...and hate it. I never seem to do well in the O-cups here...something always goes wrong...still 50/50 if I am going to do it or not. Had a GREAT pre-ride Last Sunday. First lap was muddy and wet but didn't really bother me except for the rooty up hills...(never good at that stuff, more of a mental block for me!!!)......However the second lap I did I found the rocks to be very slippry from all the riders there...the more people on them the more slippy they got....the tires would pick up the mud and leave a nice slick coating on the rocks....This was when it was not raining...I am sure If I did a 3rd or a 4th lap it would have dried up some more ....I think the conditions will change each lap.
    I went out again on Monday (conditions much better) and I was riding like Garbage and I am all black and blue.....that is my problem with the Buck - I can either ride it well - or not at all!!!!

    My thoughts on Rubber:

    Make sure you have something you TRUST - and you will be set! I have used the conti Speed King Supersonic most of the season and have loved them...They are nobby enough, I trust them in the corners, they are light (never had problem with them YET), and the rubber seems to grip the rock! If I had a set of the Twister's I would be running them if it were a tiny bit dryer!!!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    Ok, the weather network is so totally F***ed up. I checked 5 minutes ago, and it was 10%. Now I see a 70%. Why do I even look?
    Yeah, it's a joke and has made this season very difficult to plan training with on occasion. I had reserved a spot on the calendar for this race, but have to interrupt a weekend on Sunday to drive from the cottage in Wasaga, then head back and pick up the family to head home. Not really worth it if it's crappy and I can substitute a long road ride in somewhere. Mother Nature has not been kind this summer!
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  24. #24
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    I have accepted riding in the rain this year.....that or no riding. That includes road riding too. However, riding in the rain with a road peleton really sucks if you are not leading......more dirty road water hitting you than actual rain! I now have a designated "rain" road bike.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricksom
    I have accepted riding in the rain this year.....that or no riding. That includes road riding too. However, riding in the rain with a road peleton really sucks if you are not leading......more dirty road water hitting you than actual rain! I now have a designated "rain" road bike.
    It's hard on the bike, but such is life. I'd rather ride, than protect my mountain bike from the harsh outdoors. After riding in the rain at Buckwallow, and a muddy race on Tuesday, my rear deraileur housing needs to go in the trash bin. One click = no shifting. I tried lubing crap up, but that did not work. I'll get that all fixed up, just to trash it again on Sunday.

    This stuff used to last me longer.
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  26. #26
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    spin_cycle,

    I am glad to hear some good things about the Speed King Supersonic. I bought them on a whim this week because they they are ridiculously light and seem ideal for softer conditions. Too bad there is no 29er version for my front end (where I mounted the Bonty ACX instead of the Specialized Fast Trak Pro).

    I know you are a girl and probably much lighter than I am, but I do hope that at 158 lbs I will be fine on these tires. I have a perfect track record as far as flats are concerned (3 years of racing). I even race without tools or spares.
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  27. #27
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    I suggest that you...

    Quote Originally Posted by serious
    I know you are a girl and probably much lighter than I am, but I do hope that at 158 lbs I will be fine on these tires. I have a perfect track record as far as flats are concerned (3 years of racing). I even race without tools or spares.
    ...knock on wood
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  28. #28
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    rkj__: ...knock on wood

    OK, done. I will let you know if that works.
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  29. #29
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    The Thursday Night Report

    After the Thursday night weekly series in the rain last night - the consensus seemed to be narrow, low-knob rubber was the way to go. Speed Kings got good reviews, but Schwalbe's (newish) Skinny Jimmy seemed excellent for the conditions according to everyone on them last night. Personally I'll be running Racing Ralphs 2.1rear/2.25 front as I know that combination works well for me at Buck regardless of conditions.

    More than anything, I'd suggest just running something you know well, because it's going to break loose no matter what you're running. I took a play bike out last night with a 2.6" tire front and rear at 25 psi and I was still slipping at times. Lot's of grip to be had on the rock, but watch the roots.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by theweatherfools
    From Friday Evening to Saturday Afternoon we expect 20-30 mm of rain.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  31. #31
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    Well I think I am bailing; I was really looking forward to this one but not sure I am up for the trek up there. Next time!

  32. #32
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    I have to do a hard ride on Sunday rain or no rain so I think I would rather do it with others. Come on nspace, it just adds to the challenge!!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 24 solo
    I have to do a hard ride on Sunday rain or no rain so I think I would rather do it with others. Come on nspace, it just adds to the challenge!!
    I love Buckwallow, such an awesome place to ride...but I just made the plunge and bought a full carbon road bike last night (with gears ). This will be my first proper road machine.

    My heart is in mountain biking but I am excited to try out the bike and the thought of getting in a nice 140 - 180km ride and be on the bike for hours on end has me convinced it may be better than 5 hrs of car time from Port Credit, and racing for 1.5 hours. That said, after giving my Visa quite the work out, the thought of gas and race fee also has me groaning.

    Hopefully I'll see you at the mtnview 9hr and the last Ontario Cup.

    T

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by nspace
    I love Buckwallow, such an awesome place to ride...but I just made the plunge and bought a full carbon road bike last night (with gears ). This will be my first proper road machine.

    My heart is in mountain biking but I am excited to try out the bike and the thought of getting in a nice 140 - 180km ride and be on the bike for hours on end has me convinced it may be better than 5 hrs of car time from Port Credit, and racing for 1.5 hours. That said, after giving my Visa quite the work out, the thought of gas and race fee also has me groaning.

    Hopefully I'll see you at the mtnview 9hr and the last Ontario Cup.

    T
    It's your call. I'll try not to make you feel bad about your choice. I agree that spending a lot more time in the car driving, than actually riding can be a drag. Carpooling makes it more fun, and cheaper though.

    I was actually in Port Credit last night. I stopped by Gears, to get some cable and housing, so my bike actually shifts at the start of the race. Then, since I was there, I wandered down the waterfront trail for a bit. I saw numerous people on road bikes while i was driving. It looks like it might be a good area for some road miles.

    I'll be waiting for the pictures.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  35. #35

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    Anyone going to Buckwallow today? I know it's pouring right now will people still be there preriding?

  36. #36
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    I'm debating if I go at all.
    It's a 5.5 hr drive one way for me!

  37. #37
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    well the sun came out here for all of 20 minutes. I'm about 45 minutes south of Buckwallow. Maybe its all sunshine and rainbows up there right now. WOW I think I need to lay off the coffee.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by knobbynewbie888
    Anyone going to Buckwallow today? I know it's pouring right now will people still be there preriding?
    I rode Buckwallow early this morning, it was raining lightly. By 10 am there were lots of preriders on site. No one seemed bothered or concerned about the weather, groups of 6 or 8 riders heading onto the trails. There are some puddles of standing water, intermittent throughout, no long stretches of mud at all. Consequently I found traction to be quite good most of the course on Michelin Dry[2] tires! But they are brand new so knobbies are still sharp. They have modified Bear Bluff trail from last weekend, taken out just one of the more technical sections. Lots of technical left for the 11:30/1:30. The 8:30/9:30 course is pretty tame Weather forecast calls for sunny/cloudy periods race day, only 10-20%chance of rain. Should be a very interesting race. I hope to get out and spectate, maybe get some pics.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 24 solo
    well the sun came out here for all of 20 minutes. I'm about 45 minutes south of Buckwallow. Maybe its all sunshine and rainbows up there right now. WOW I think I need to lay off the coffee.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  40. #40
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    Good luck to everyone braving Muckwallow tomorrow!
    High on Life

  41. #41
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    I feel like a total loser for instantly identifying that as the sun from Teletubbies. Is that wrong?

  42. #42
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    RKJ, sun & rainbow mod must be working some magic! It hasn't rained since late morning, and the sun has begun peeking through mid afternoon.

  43. #43
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    With all the rain I think Ryan is stuck indoors and needs to step away from the coffee also!!!!
    Nspace, ummmm No comment.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 24 solo
    With all the rain I think Ryan is stuck indoors and needs to step away from the coffee also!!!!
    Nspace, ummmm No comment.
    I don't drink coffee. That doesn't mean I don't have issues though.

    It's been raining most of the day here.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nspace
    I feel like a total loser for instantly identifying that as the sun from Teletubbies. Is that wrong?
    Not if you have or work with young children Than you have a little leeway in explaining your knowledge. If you feel the need to.

    Stosh
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  46. #46
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    that was fun!!!!! Now I think i'm going to spend longer getting the bike tuned up than it took to get it that way. Chain is questionable, no rear brakes, shifting, it used to shift. Lets do it again!!!!!!!!!!

    As for tires, muds were it. Ran the XCR muds and had great grip

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 24 solo
    that was fun!!!!! Now I think i'm going to spend longer getting the bike tuned up than it took to get it that way. Chain is questionable, no rear brakes, shifting, it used to shift. Lets do it again!!!!!!!!!!

    As for tires, muds were it. Ran the XCR muds and had great grip
    Pythons,... not the best tire choice. Shifting? The new cable/housing i put on before the race held up well. Rear brakes? Replace pads asap.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  48. #48
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    I got up early, drove up, raced without crashing and finished just out of the top ten in my class. A pretty good day considering my bike went from 27lbs and clean to a 32lb mud encrusted boat anchor that had a rear brake give up half way through lap two of three and then start working again at the end of lap three. People let me pass without issue and I returned the favor, I managed to get a few shots off near the end of the Expert/Elite race that I'll post sometime tomorrow. I'm off to bed see everyone next race,

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 24 solo
    that was fun!!!!! Now I think i'm going to spend longer getting the bike tuned up than it took to get it that way. Chain is questionable, no rear brakes, shifting, it used to shift. Lets do it again!!!!!!!!!!

    As for tires, muds were it. Ran the XCR muds and had great grip
    I think you need a singlespeed!

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