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    Retallack Lodge

    <iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/115664674" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/115664674">Peak to Creek Episode: 5</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/freehub">Freehub Magazine</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>


    WOW what a series this has been. Excellent to see a trail of this magnitude come to life through the eyes of the people getting dirty and sore. It has helped our club members understand the effort required and what can result from a group effort. We were set to announce on New Years Day a large build with lots of bridging in the plans. Then on New Years Eve one of our members posts this vid with awesome on site milling. Big thanks to Freehub Magazine, Retallack Lodge and of course the cool team who put this all together. Great to be along for the ride.

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    True thanks goes to Riley Mcintosh who had a vision long ago to create something like this.

    Things I'm Stoked On - NSMB.com

    And thanks go to the owners of Retallack which was started as a ski operation who could see the potential of Riley's idea long ago. Riley at the time was working for Retallack during their off season thinning out the trees for their ski operation when they decided to give this a try and see what happened.

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    Thanks for the link Endura. Great read. Love the can do attitude.

    “Trails are what make our sport so amazing. Skiers can’t conjure snow, Surfers cant get out there a create waves, but mountain bikers can make the experience as good as they want by getting out there and building the trail of their dreams.”


    Welcome - Retallack

    Looks fantastic. Around $500 gets you an amazing experience.

    “ We recently obtained government authorization to expand our tenure to create the world’s largest heli-biking and backcountry mountain biking operating area – over 1.5 millions acres. Presently, Retallack is continuing to develop a plethora of trails that will enable customers to access additional descents of up to 6,000 vertical feet via a combination of helicopters, off-road shuttle vans, and boats.”

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    Looks like 500$ per day, not trip. So experience will be ~1500$

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    hey Tom, are you offering helicopter shuttles? that would be awesome, though it would be a short flight to reach elevation...
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    hey Tom, are you offering helicopter shuttles? that would be awesome, though it would be a short flight to reach elevation...
    There are actual mountains in Ontario???

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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    hey Tom, are you offering helicopter shuttles? that would be awesome, though it would be a short flight to reach elevation...

    I hope so SS.
    I have a Grant Application into all levels of Government and if it comes through we should have a free ride for everyone ... because that is the only fair thing to do.
    And I also have a Fat pay check allotted to myself for all the organizing and meetings and general bum patting I am doing. Power to the people.
    Just be patient SS and wish me luck.

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    so i guess no helicopter rides... how about a motorboat!

    it's ok, you can borrow our helicopter...




    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post
    I hope so SS.
    I have a Grant Application into all levels of Government and if it comes through we should have a free ride for everyone ... because that is the only fair thing to do.
    And I also have a Fat pay check allotted to myself for all the organizing and meetings and general bum patting I am doing. Power to the people.
    Just be patient SS and wish me luck.
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 01-07-2015 at 05:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    so i guess no helicopter rides... how about a motorboat!
    New plan for the GTA's garbage? Find a spot and keep piling it up till it gets to the correct height, cover in dirt, and voila. A mountain in Ontario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    There are actual mountains in Ontario???
    i think it is like a fish story enduramil...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    New plan for the GTA's garbage? Find a spot and keep piling it up till it gets to the correct height, cover in dirt, and voila. A mountain in Ontario.
    actually i think that is a good idea. we can also harness the methane and turn it to electricity. sell the electricity and use the money for singletrack... sweet!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    There are actual mountains in Ontario???
    Indeed there are, and ripe for trail development too as they are largely contained in public rather than private lands. I'm speaking of the Killarney area of course, where the land manager is relatively anti-bike. Despite it being quite a sizeable chunk of public land managed for the benefit of all Ontarians, no one seems much bothered by the exclusion of cyclists there. Indeed, I believe there just may be an oblique reference to poaching it in a prior post on these forums. I'm told Killarney ridge was once as high as the Rocky mountains are today. It took hundreds of millions of years to wear it down. What's left is nothing to sneeze at though and with that terrain it's not hard to imagine a true destination trail for Ontario cyclists, just as the existing trail is for hikers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay. View Post
    Indeed there are, and ripe for trail development too as they are largely contained in public rather than private lands. I'm speaking of the Killarney area of course, where the land manager is relatively anti-bike. Despite it being quite a sizeable chunk of public land managed for the benefit of all Ontarians, no one seems much bothered by the exclusion of cyclists there. Indeed, I believe there just may be an oblique reference to poaching it in a prior post on these forums. I'm told Killarney ridge was once as high as the Rocky mountains are today. It took hundreds of millions of years to wear it down. What's left is nothing to sneeze at though and with that terrain it's not hard to imagine a true destination trail for Ontario cyclists, just as the existing trail is for hikers.
    Yes they look like OK mountain for Ontario.
    The crazy white colour is amazing as well.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Retallack Lodge-white.jpg  


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    Too bad Killarney is not a world class MTBing destination like Retallack is.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Retallack Lodge-rocks.jpg  


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    Killarney Ontario.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Retallack Lodge-view.jpg  


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    The Granite part of Killarney trail goes from difficult sections to super smooth sections.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Retallack Lodge-1.jpg  

    Retallack Lodge-2.jpg  


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    Peak to Creek Season Finale Video - Pinkbike

    Wow that was great to watch a professional video focused on trail building.
    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post
    Peak to Creek Season Finale Video - Pinkbike

    Wow that was great to watch a professional video focused on trail building.
    Thanks
    yes it is quite cool. a few ontario lads have moved out west and are building some awesome trails and features. we do still have a pretty good pool of builders here in ontario. though it's more underground.
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    Why would trail building which is recognized as desirable for the public need to be underground?

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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    yes it is quite cool. a few ontario lads have moved out west and are building some awesome trails and features. we do still have a pretty good pool of builders here in ontario. though it's more underground.
    Sprocket, this is like doing push ups in quick sand. For 90% of those in Canada who build or more accurately maintain and/or reopen already existing trails there is no pay cheque. It is done by volunteer work and by those who love doing this. And those who are of the small 10% who get a pay cheque doing this put in thankless man hours quietly over the years before they got offered a opportunity to make it a job.

    Some sadly are under the delusion that after a 5 years they are entitled to some kind of pay cheque. Interesting as those I know of who now get paid to do trail building now days never expected a pay cheque for their efforts. Case in point Paul who we both know who laboured for years in the Don. Never expected a pay cheque or felt he was entitled to one. Quietly put in his time and loved watching riders on his creation. And through his quiet efforts now has the opportunity.

    This never ending spew of pay cheque in threads is old and tired. You want to make it happen then get off the board and quietly work in your community to create that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    This never ending spew of pay cheque in threads is old and tired. You want to make it happen then get off the board and quietly work in your community to create that.
    Clarification please ; who is getting paid for their trail work or advocacy? Or are are saying "you" in the generic sense?
    Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post
    Why would trail building which is recognized as desirable for the public need to be underground?
    The types of trails which some of these people are building are highly frowned upon by IMBA, land owners, environmental groups, other trail users, and so on and so forth for various reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    Clarification please ; who is getting paid for their trail work or advocacy? Or are are saying "you" in the generic sense?
    I meant trail work. I don't do politics and I am highly allergic to Beaucratic nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    The types of trails which some of these people are building are highly frowned upon by IMBA, land owners, environmental groups, other trail users, and so on and so forth for various reasons.
    I could not spend time building a trail that was frowned upon and people wanted to close. Even when I built rogue it was done to pass the land owner, environmental and other trail user test of Good or Gone. I have always hated the thoughts of wasted work. But each situation has it’s own circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    I meant trail work. I don't do politics and I am highly allergic to Beaucratic nonsense.
    Unfortunately Bureaucracy nonsense is a must if building on public land. Common sense is still present in the political field and many good things can be accomplished with sustained effort. Funding is always the hard part. Showing up at a Government meeting with cash in the bank opens doors that might take years and years and years to open if all you have is an idea.

    Very few people/companies make money trail building and they have earned every penny they make. I would think with Ontario’s large population and Governments appreciation of trails for new housing developments instead of baseball diamonds that we will see more paid trail builders in the future.

    Eco Trail Building | HapWilson.com

    Professional Trails, Minimal Maintenance | www.sustainabletrails.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post
    Why would trail building which is recognized as desirable for the public need to be underground?
    quite simple really, the community is building a trail to meet it's needs. it will do so above board or below. successful management is to provide these trails to the community and promote inclusive sustainable stewardship rather then exclusive heavy handed enforcement. guess which method is more successful.
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    i wouldn't call bureaucracy nonsense. but rather a check and balance system to promote impartial and fair treatment to an issue or decision. the problem arises when a special interest group hijacks/corrupts the process.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post
    Unfortunately Bureaucracy nonsense is a must if building on public land. Common sense is still present in the political field and many good things can be accomplished with sustained effort. Funding is always the hard part. Showing up at a Government meeting with cash in the bank opens doors that might take years and years and years to open if all you have is an idea.

    Very few people/companies make money trail building and they have earned every penny they make. I would think with Ontario’s large population and Governments appreciation of trails for new housing developments instead of baseball diamonds that we will see more paid trail builders in the future.

    Eco Trail Building | HapWilson.com

    Professional Trails, Minimal Maintenance | www.sustainabletrails.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    i wouldn't call bureaucracy nonsense. but rather a check and balance system to promote impartial and fair treatment to an issue or decision. the problem arises when a special interest group hijacks/corrupts the process.
    I would say bureaucracy works towards the greater good.

    Winston Churchill's Quote on Democracy
    "Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
    No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
    the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -

    Special interest groups certainly have a roll to play in Democracy, but they should not expect everyone to pay for their groups activities because that is where hijacks/corruption creeps in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post

    Special interest groups certainly have a roll to play in Democracy, but they should not expect everyone to pay for their groups activities because that is where hijacks/corruption creeps in.
    i would say the opposite is true where special interest groups claims monetary superiority over other groups and uses that to hijack/corrupt. after all money is power n'est-ce pas?

    now this is getting to political and should be tied back into trails... i like the ofsc (ontario federation of snowmobile clubs) framework where they disperse funds to smaller clubs for trail projects. this framework was passed overwhelmingly by the ofsc members/clubs. as mtbers we have a lot to learn from this. would a large mtb club disperse a percentage of its funds to a pool to help build trails for a smaller club?

    anyway, catching big air at retallack

    <iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/105255426" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/105255426">FEST series - Hoffest - Official highlight</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/festseries">fest series</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    i would say the opposite is true where special interest groups claims monetary superiority over other groups and uses that to hijack/corrupt. after all money is power n'est-ce pas?

    now this is getting to political and should be tied back into trails... i like the ofsc (ontario federation of snowmobile clubs) framework where they disperse funds to smaller clubs for trail projects. this framework was passed overwhelmingly by the ofsc members/clubs. as mtbers we have a lot to learn from this. would a large mtb club disperse a percentage of its funds to a pool to help build trails for a smaller club?

    anyway, catching big air at retallack

    <iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/105255426" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/105255426">FEST series - Hoffest - Official highlight</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/festseries">fest series</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
    Well now look at that SS has finally come to his senses and now understands and supports something he was completely against. USER PAY.
    Yes of course I like the OFSC model and the club I am involved with uses it's funds to help with trail projects in other parts of our County. We have proven this model works by the amount of singletrack built in 2 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post
    I could not spend time building a trail that was frowned upon and people wanted to close. Even when I built rogue it was done to pass the land owner, environmental and other trail user test of Good or Gone. I have always hated the thoughts of wasted work. But each situation has it’s own circumstances.
    To each his own. There are certain types of trails found in places such as Quebec or BC which will never be sanctioned in Ontario until I'm well into my years of collecting a pension, or dead. Probably the latter. Some folks want to bring a piece of the outside world to Ontario so they go out and build it, and ride it for as long as it lasts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post
    USER PAY.
    How much gov funding does OFSC get?

    2010 "$6.5 Million invested in trail Improvements with the National Trail Coalition (NTC) funding program."

    I'd have to go digging to find the full picture but I don't think it's all user pay.

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    now now tom don't to excited. all i said was that i like is the allocation of funds from a larger group to a smaller group. i still think charging fees to ride bicycles on county/city/municipal/conservation/park is a dead end here in ontario



    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Shaw View Post
    Well now look at that SS has finally come to his senses and now understands and supports something he was completely against. USER PAY.
    Yes of course I like the OFSC model and the club I am involved with uses it's funds to help with trail projects in other parts of our County. We have proven this model works by the amount of singletrack built in 2 years.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    To each his own. There are certain types of trails found in places such as Quebec or BC which will never be sanctioned in Ontario until I'm well into my years of collecting a pension, or dead. Probably the latter. Some folks want to bring a piece of the outside world to Ontario so they go out and build it, and ride it for as long as it lasts.
    quite, people want to experience what other places have had for years and what has created a multi-million dollar bike industry. ontario should learn from that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    To each his own. There are certain types of trails found in places such as Quebec or BC which will never be sanctioned in Ontario until I'm well into my years of collecting a pension, or dead. Probably the latter. Some folks want to bring a piece of the outside world to Ontario so they go out and build it, and ride it for as long as it lasts.
    I like your get it done attitude. Instead of someone needs to do this for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    How much gov funding does OFSC get?

    2010 "$6.5 Million invested in trail Improvements with the National Trail Coalition (NTC) funding program."

    I'd have to go digging to find the full picture but I don't think it's all user pay.
    $200 Yearly OFSC Trail Pass or you are poaching/Trespassing. Certainly not the Government should provide free trails. I am sure Retallack received some Government help as well. While not entirely private money, it is still user pay, like Retallack. Great model that get's thing done other then grand meetings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    now now tom don't to excited. all i said was that i like is the allocation of funds from a larger group to a smaller group. i still think charging fees to ride bicycles on county/city/municipal/conservation/park is a dead end here in ontario
    Clearly you said " i like the ofsc (ontario federation of snowmobile clubs)", no matter how much you demonstrate your skill at back pedaling, or throwing in more um info. You like a system that has put connecting trails throughout Ontario with a main focus on user pay. A dead end would be years and years of meetings, lots of people paid and no trails. Nashville Tract like.

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    Tom you've got blinders on.

    ss clearly said "i like the ofsc (ontario federation of snowmobile clubs) framework where they disperse funds to smaller clubs for trail projects"

    If you think you can cut that off before "framework" you've got some reading comprehension issues.

    Retallack is a private company. No government granting. As I pointed out in the other thread they pay for their tenure'd use of the land via a lease to the BC Gov. This gives them exclusive rights to the land for recreation usage.

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    OFSC Framework is $200 per year user pay shirk and you have no idea (nor do I) what Grants they have received from the Government.

    How did you like our map? You said lot's before it was posted, nothing about it since.
    Strava Global Heatmap

  40. #40
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    Now a very tired line of debate on this forum that hasn't produced any particularly new or novel information in months. Thread closed.
    Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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