An Open Letter Against Online Retailers- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    An Open Letter Against Online Retailers

    This is from Germany.

    http://antichainreaction.com/

  2. #2
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    This forum is free. But you won't get me to read that ...
    "I love being on a bike. It helps me feel free. I get it from my dad", by Guillaume Blanchet

  3. #3
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    I basically stopped reading after this:

    The national distributors..? No! They are your best ally to get to the small shops and, therefore, to the customers.., unless the national distributor is the one interested in selling to this low-cost online shop specialised in selling abroad where there are already established distributors.

    In Canada, it is the national distributors that add their cut that raises the prices of parts and bikes, so they need to go or lower their cut.

    Anyway, it's the same ol' same ol' , "Wahhhhhh I can't compete, and I don't want to work hard, so somebody please fix this problem for me."

    I see four possible solutions that benefit everybody:
    Open your own online store.
    Lower the prices of the stuff you sell.
    Offer something that makes it worth paying a premium for the stuff you're selling.
    You close shop and somebody takes your place who can do one or more of the above.

  4. #4
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    I believe we all know what we think of the distributors here in Canada.
    SUCCESS - To be able to spend life in your own way

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricksom
    I believe we all know what we think of the distributors here in Canada.
    After going by my local Fastenal.....

    Picked up a couple of M7 nuts a whopping $2. Yet will cost me for one $2.76 at CRC and $6 through Norco. The guy at the counter pretty much thinks Norco is scamming when I told him the cost through them for a M7 nut.

    Now to further my agenda of destroying my LBS.

    2 weeks ago got my Altura shorts from the UK that you cannot purchase in Canada. And yesterday ordered the DMR bushing I needed and some other parts I can't get here. And just received today a pair or wool socks and the new issue of Singletrack mailed to me with a total equal to that for a new pair of Sock Guy wool socks here.

    Go on Hate me all ya want. It just adds fuel to me desire.

  6. #6
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    i'm curious as to when the LBS or norco/lambert will concern themselves with my financial status. when they ask how they can help me, i'll look into how i can help them.

  7. #7
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    this read was disgusting... and they separated comment area for shops from comment area from CONSUMERS.... guess why...

    i will never get those 5 minutes of my life back...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    this read was disgusting... and they separated comment area for shops from comment area from CONSUMERS.... guess why...

    i will never get those 5 minutes of my life back...
    Sorry I missed it!

    BTW, a new bike shop just opened in Hamilton - Hammer City Cycle on Upper James north of Mohawk Rd. I haven't been there yet, but their website looks interesting. www.hammercitycycle.com
    Nice to see someone has faith in the economy and in cycling in general. Lots of new cyclists out there that need places for buying stuff and getting stuff fixed.

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    Nothing quite like the vibe in a bike shop, have not been in one yet that I did not enjoy.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    i'm curious as to when the LBS or norco/lambert will concern themselves with my financial status. when they ask how they can help me, i'll look into how i can help them.
    It's about time we had an on-line vs. LBS thread again. It's been like, what, 6 months?

    Anyhow, I haven't been to the new shop in Hamilton yet but the guy who runs it is highly reputable (and a National-level master mechanic).

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  11. #11
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    lol @ that entire article.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by nspace
    lol @ that entire article.
    yup.
    Some great sets for the trainer:
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    this read was disgusting... and they separated comment area for shops from comment area from CONSUMERS.... guess why...

    i will never get those 5 minutes of my life back...
    My comment was deleted. I guess they only want to hear the voices of some customers and not others.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by langford
    Sorry I missed it!

    BTW, a new bike shop just opened in Hamilton - Hammer City Cycle on Upper James north of Mohawk Rd. I haven't been there yet, but their website looks interesting. www.hammercitycycle.com
    Nice to see someone has faith in the economy and in cycling in general. Lots of new cyclists out there that need places for buying stuff and getting stuff fixed.
    really? i live a block from there and i have yet to see it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    really? i live a block from there and i have yet to see it.
    they don't sell pawned bicycles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    they don't sell pawned bicycles.
    oh, that's hilarious.

  17. #17
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    If you guys don't settle down, Biggie's gonna pee on your door handles...
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  18. #18
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    Hahaha, blame the magazines!!!! LOL!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    If you guys don't settle down, Biggie's gonna pee on your door handles...
    Yes. But I'm outta shape. I'm probably not at a point where I can pee on a moving car - they'll have to be parked.
    "I love being on a bike. It helps me feel free. I get it from my dad", by Guillaume Blanchet

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    If you guys don't settle down, Biggie's gonna pee on your door handles...
    Do tell the story that led to this.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil
    Do tell the story that led to this.
    Nothin' juicy.

    Back when this forum was an uncharted frontier, frontier justice was the norm.

    As the ruffians got rowdier a moderator was needed.

    Biggie H. Boney arrived on the scene. Unofficial moderator.

    My motto was moderation by urination. Any un-mtbr behaviour was punished by my uric acid riddled piddle. Favourite technique on the door handle. Oggie's Trebant was my first victim. Gosh darn door melted right off that Motherf%$&er.
    "I love being on a bike. It helps me feel free. I get it from my dad", by Guillaume Blanchet

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggie
    Oggie's Trebant was my first victim. Gosh darn door melted right off that Motherf%$&er.
    Trabant that is.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bu...rabant_601.jpg

    Didn't realize that car had a plastic body until a mad dog bit half or the rear quarter panel. Then Biggie whizzed it. The rest is history.

    Replaced it with the ultrasporty and incredibly fast:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Red86fierocoupe.jpg

    Didn't realize it was no better plastic than Trabant, until Biggie relieved himself again...

    The story with Biggie ends when I managed to slam the aluminum door of Fiero's successor, before Biggie pulled his wiener back. Natural birth control - executed to perfection. Biggie was removed from the gene pool. Forever. Done. Nada...

    Endura, any more questions?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    really? i live a block from there and i have yet to see it.
    I'm just off Upper Wellington, about three blocks from it myself. I have not been IN the place yet, but I did see the big sign on Upper James between the "strip stores" building (fight planet, the Jewelery store etc.) and the Liquor store.

    I'm pretty sure it's a weird shaped building, so though the address is "Upper James" you need to go to the Liquor Store's Parking lot off West 1st to access it.

    Sorry for the off topic post
    Last edited by XLNC; 02-19-2011 at 09:12 AM.

  24. #24
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    Okay, time for reality in this whole LBS vs online nonsense.

    I'm a father with a kid. Being responsible means I have to fund what she needs first and leaves little for bike stuff. So I have to be intelligent with it. And if I only buy at my LBS as some people think I should .. well I'd have to give it up and take up running.

    So I buy where I can get what I need at the best price..CRC, MEC, EBay, Pinkbike, and so on. Pretty much zip at my LBS simply based on economics of a parent. I buy where I can get what I need at the best price.. not out of some misguided loyalty to a bike shop. Because at the end of the day if it comes between buying a Hope BB for $220 bucks at a LBS or $100 through CRC with the $120 for my daughters needs. The LBS will always lose.

  25. #25
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    [QUOTE=Enduramil] Pretty much zip at my LBS simply based on economics of a parent. QUOTE]

    I knew that we would get back to zip tie prices at LBS.

    I buy from all of the above for different reasons, Time, price and somethings I just can't find it locally.

  26. #26
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    Change happens, a lot of people then get angry, if a shop can offer something unique and priced appropriately it might(unlikely) have a shot to survive. To paraphase an awful book, the cheese is always on the move - you can't petition it to stay put.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik
    Change happens, a lot of people then get angry, if a shop can offer something unique and priced appropriately it might(unlikely) have a shot to survive. To paraphase an awful book, the cheese is always on the move - you can't petition it to stay put.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1l84...eature=related

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  29. #29
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    in the interest of all the confrontational thread bumping going on i'd like to offer a highly opinionated opinion on what i think in the form of a question.

    an organized initiative to control the retail price of a product or service?
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  30. #30
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    Is this a question about headsets?
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    Is this a question about headsets?
    could be.

    i was aware of this:
    Colluding on price amongst competitors, also known as horizontal price fixing, is viewed as a per se violation of the Sherman Act regardless of the market impact or alleged efficiency of the action.
    i was not aware of this:
    In 2007, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that vertical price fixing by a manufacturer and its retailers, also known as retail price maintenance, is not a per se violation.
    the cartel can't 'fix it' so they will monetarily hurt manufacturers until they do.
    legally.

    put that in your headset.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    could be.

    i was aware of this:


    i was not aware of this:


    the cartel can't 'fix it' so they will monetarily hurt manufacturers until they do.
    legally.

    put that in your headset.
    Annoying that we can't double quote here but anyway....

    The two are different when you think about it and the second one sounds perfectly legal, but in the end you would have to have every single bike manufacturer agree to set the price floor and stick to it. Certain brands are perfect substitutes especially at around the 1 to 3k price level, so some manufactures risk losing sales to make some retailers -- retailers who are losing market share by their own admission -- happy and that means the manufacturers will be the ones losing.

    Anyway, the thing to take away from this is something I think a lot of us already knew there are some bike shops that just don't give a crap about their customers. The surprising thing is that they also don't care about the manufacturers.

  33. #33
    namagomi
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    in the interest of all the confrontational thread bumping going on i'd like to offer a highly opinionated opinion on what i think in the form of a question.

    an organized initiative to control the retail price of a product or service?
    Hey, this sounds like a commie musing? Haha, really though thanks to the internet there is now a market mechanism in place to stabilize those price escalations... internet ftw.

    Also, the only "price fixing" charges i've heard of involved a few gasoline stations in rural quebec. Pretty sure nobody in the gov't gives a flying f about some bicycle parts.

  34. #34
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    Manufactures are going to have to do some thing about the gray market, ie either shut it down or make fare pricing around the globe (hopefully the later). Really with the internet there is no territory anymore, I can sell something to Europe or Europe can sell lots of stuff here.
    We have done our best to come up with some competitive pricing being a small shop in Ontario and it is going to have a big overhaul in the next coming weeks.

    I will say there has been a lot of opposition to us doing this and many bumps along the way. Distributors would like to keep their products as premium products (I can understand that). They want to try and protect there dealers in there market territory and are reluctant to see that there is nothing that they can do to stop jenson or CRC from selling to other markets (everybody on this thread). And it is a tough market out there everybody would like to save a buck when they can, so if you can't beat them join them. and that is what we have done, and we will continue to keep trying, we will keep giving the best prices on the products we can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik
    Hey, this sounds like a commie musing? Haha, really though thanks to the internet there is now a market mechanism in place to stabilize those price escalations... internet ftw.

    Also, the only "price fixing" charges i've heard of involved a few gasoline stations in rural quebec. Pretty sure nobody in the gov't gives a flying f about some bicycle parts.
    I'm a capitalist... if I was to start an E-business... no bricks and mortar...how would people know who I am ... or what I am selling???

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrastories
    And it is a tough market out there everybody would like to save a buck when they can, so if you can't beat them join them. and that is what we have done, and we will continue to keep trying, we will keep giving the best prices on the products we can.
    I think bike retailing (at the local level) is probably going to evolve more and more into a service industry. With all the OEM part dumping out there, competing on price is a race to the bottom and that only really appeals to the top percentile of riders that actually know how to screw their own stuff together (like us).

    The majority of people out there can't even tell which lever does what on their bikes. Those are the people whose hearts and minds are still up for grabs.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    I think bike retailing (at the local level) is probably going to evolve more and more into a service industry. With all the OEM part dumping out there, competing on price is a race to the bottom and that only really appeals to the top percentile of riders that actually know how to screw their own stuff together (like us).

    The majority of people out there can't even tell which lever does what on their bikes. Those are the people whose hearts and minds are still up for grabs.
    ...until Wal-Mart, crappy tire, and Costco, decide to follow MEC's footsteps and start offering bike repair services. Average joe and the family will probably always choose to take their bikes to Costco to fix a flat or busted chain while they shop.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuMach
    ...until Wal-Mart, crappy tire, and Costco, decide to follow MEC's footsteps and start offering bike repair services. Average joe and the family will probably always choose to take their bikes to Costco to fix a flat or busted chain while they shop.
    That's possible, but bike repair would be such a tiny side-line for them (unlike auto repair) I just don't thing they'd ever bother.
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  39. #39
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    probably right..

  40. #40
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    Just another reason to make Bike Mechanics a skilled trade!!!!!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuMach
    ...until Wal-Mart, crappy tire, and Costco, decide to follow MEC's footsteps and start offering bike repair services. Average joe and the family will probably always choose to take their bikes to Costco to fix a flat or busted chain while they shop.
    walmart and costco sell tires...independent tire shops still exist.
    autoparts are available online and in big box stores...

    other industries, most in fact, have gone through this (or some semblance of) change, enough that it causes a fundamental business shift.
    they reinvented themselves.
    we will too.

    change happens.
    bike shops should not be asking how do i STOP the grey market (which incidentally isn't so much grey as it is mainstream as it's being supported) or they can ask, what's NEXT, what's BETTER?
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    walmart and costco sell tires...independent tire shops still exist.
    autoparts are available change happens.
    bike shops should not be asking how do i STOP the grey market (which incidentally isn't so much grey as it is mainstream as it's being supported) or they can ask, what's NEXT, what's BETTER?

    MEC is the horsemen of the apocalypse....RABLE RABBLE

    http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=139429

    http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=137505

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil
    MEC is the horsemen of the apocalypse....RABLE RABBLE
    nobody likes to see their girl dance with another man.

    one business looked at another business and together they discussed an opportunity...during the consideration that followed the pro's were weighed against the con's...and a decision was made.

    you think i like it when i see a CDN shop selling niner and not misfit?
    so i take out a petition and try to close them down, that's what i do...
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    or they can ask, what's NEXT, what's BETTER?
    Trek's already showing us what they think is NEXT by following the Sony/Nike/Apple model. Beyond product, you sell the experience.
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuMach
    ...until Wal-Mart, crappy tire, and Costco, decide to follow MEC's footsteps and start offering bike repair services. Average joe and the family will probably always choose to take their bikes to Costco to fix a flat or busted chain while they shop.
    Looks like Wal-Mart already has a start on their own bike repair shop.

    https://www.bikeradar.com/news/artic...ike-shop-13085


  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by RatchAttack
    Looks like Wal-Mart already has a start on their own bike repair shop.

    https://www.bikeradar.com/news/artic...ike-shop-13085

    sell the consumer absolute garbage and then offer to repair it weekly for obscene amounts. wish i thought of it.

  47. #47
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    Huh, well wow!

    That article was dated 2007 so I poked around a bit to see if they still offer this service. The only thing on the Walmart corporate site is this exact press release. I went to the store site for that store and it doesn't mention it at all. I wonder if they're still doing it?
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  48. #48
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    Shops will always survive since people will want better service then what walmart can give, and really shops bread and butter is not the high end consumer (I have herd 3% when you factor in department store bikes) but the middle consumer, someone who would like to have a good bike but not spend over $1500 on it.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    Huh, well wow!

    That article was dated 2007 so I poked around a bit to see if they still offer this service. The only thing on the Walmart corporate site is this exact press release. I went to the store site for that store and it doesn't mention it at all. I wonder if they're still doing it?

    Likely not. 99% of Wal-Marts do not sell live fish anymore due to a lack of knowledge and\or qualifications held by the people working in the pet department. As a fish keeper myself, I laughed hearing some of the things Wal-Mart employees used to tell customers. It also scared me that many couldn`t tell a Guppy from an Oscar. I was also greatly amused at how there were always more floaters than swimmers in their tanks. Apparently many others questioned all the floaters too and Wal-Mart decided to scrap the sections altogether.

  50. #50
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    And now, a short song from those Canadian distributors.

    <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2nXGPZaTKik" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    What a strange "relationship" ... Think of the children!

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik
    And now, a short song from those Canadian distributors.

    <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2nXGPZaTKik" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    What a strange "relationship" ... Think of the children!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdcgb...eature=related

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    Huh, well wow!

    That article was dated 2007 so I poked around a bit to see if they still offer this service. The only thing on the Walmart corporate site is this exact press release. I went to the store site for that store and it doesn't mention it at all. I wonder if they're still doing it?
    even if the prices for parts and labor were well beyond competitive...a phlat tire and minor tune could easily cost as much as a new 'heavier-duty' machine with both shocks and pegs.
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    even if the prices for parts and labor were well beyond competitive...a phlat tire and minor tune could easily cost as much as a new 'heavier-duty' machine with both shocks and pegs.
    I doubt you ...

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