• 08-19-2011
    mtbmeister
    Eastern Canada Forum=Daycare Moderator Forum
    Well, let's see how long this one stays up and how long it is until I am sent to the corner. I am a regular poster as many of you know, as well as a visible participant in the local mtb community.

    I have taken on the role of a lurker for the past few weeks as the idea of sharing any opinion about any specific ideas of others or otherwise has been squashed by the hall monitors at recess. Seriously, this has gotten ridiculous. And being there are references to "what canucks do" on the forums or other generalizations by the moderators themselves, where does having a babysitter really benefit anyone.

    It's very unfortunate that a couple of rather micro-minded individuals have gotten the attention of the moderators to a point that we can't just post as we have for years now in these forums. I am wondering if I am the only one that feels this way, but I doubt not. Being I have lost a lot of interest in posting on this forum in the past few weeks due to these activities, the juvenile discipline isn't going to hurt too much.

    However, perhaps we can create some momentum to understanding some realities that exist with the participants of this forum if anyone else cares to speak up. If not, that's cool. I am okay sitting in the corner by myself :rolleyes:.
  • 08-20-2011
    rockcrusher
    I have no problem with posting your concerns. The problem that was occurring with alarming frequency here was excessive harassment of certain users or so certain users here made it seem. Since the administration of MTBR doesn't have a moderator in this forum that is familiar on a daily basis with the regular users here we installed the zero tolerance policy to stop the behavior in its tracks and give us time to determine what, if anything, was going on in here.

    It seems that when any group of people feel marginalized on these forums the general attitude in posting becomes one not of sharing information or our love of mountain biking but debating less and less delicately the merits of each and every post. As the dialog degrades more and more people get frustrated with the atmosphere and report posts until our inbox's are full of them.

    At that point something needs to be done and this is the solution when there is no one person that can moderate the forum locally. I can tell you that the generally composition of my inbox is now not inundated with report posts from this forum.

    And you all might not know it but I am a Canadian, lived in Saskatoon for 25 years before moving to arizona. Road my mountain bike all over southern Saskatchewan all my family still lives there so any reference to canucks by me can certainly be seen as a self referential quip and not a deprecating jab if you want.

    Finally there is nothing wrong with sharing your opinion or your opposing opinion regarding something but when it becomes excessive or just a meaningless "i'm right" "no I'm right" series of exchanges someone just needs to let it go and move on to another post or forum. I think that everything will be fine in here for the time being, we are leaving the zero tolerance policy in place for awhile but unless the report post emails start flooding our inboxes again I foresee little action on our behalf after this wakeup call to this forum.
  • 08-20-2011
    Circlip
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtbmeister View Post
    If not, that's cool. I am okay sitting in the corner by myself :rolleyes:.

    I have a spare hat I can loan you during your stay.
  • 08-20-2011
    dhpunk~
    has been rather dull around here......

    the personalities around this particular forum amaze me, they act completly different on other bike forums.
    i always get a kick out of 'bait' posts!
    you know them...could have 100's views with little to zero (more times than not) information regarding anything, with no more than 2 replies.....then all of a sudden the the banter begins and the thread takes off!
    these threads make me happy....i love a good laugh!
  • 08-20-2011
    Devinci luvr
    I see a lot of cheap shots aimed at people which creates an anti-intellectual environment trying to bait people. Which is fine if you're just hanging out and wanting to entertain yourself by arguing with people or taking cheap shots, but on a public forum it just makes it so everyone but the people with the most time on their hands drowns out everyone else and makes it hard to find useful info.

    Most popular forums have an IRC channel for these people who want to just hang out and leave the forums to a more informative intellectual tone.
  • 08-20-2011
    Devinci luvr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dhpunk~ View Post
    has been rather dull around here......

    Right, lurking around here it seems a group of people use this forum as a source of entertainment more than a reciprocity for local riding information. I also think they get a kick out of having a larger audience because of the site. This thread is pretty good example of just a thread for entertainment value, but to me, there are much better ways to spend your time.
  • 08-20-2011
    aerius
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Devinci luvr View Post
    Right, lurking around here it seems a group of people use this forum as a source of entertainment more than a reciprocity for local riding information.

    1. Entertainment and sharing local riding info is not mutually exclusive
    2. As far as I can tell these people aren't taking over the entire forum and crowding out all the informative posts.

    Exhibit A:


    I count 3 threads including this one that are not riding related. The rest are sharing local riding info & experiences, organizing local rides, or talking about bike history & skills. If I look at the entire first page there's maybe another couple threads where the usual suspects go at it but the rest is all about riding.
  • 08-20-2011
    Enduramil
    Exellent quote from here,
    Sun News stands by interview with dancer | Canada | News | Toronto Sun

    Quote:

    Those who are offended by content have many remedies at their disposal, including changing the channel. One remedy that should never be on the table is to censor or ban voices one disagrees with or is offended by
    Now let us be clear. I have been on forums for a decade now. Only once have I ever on any of the forums sent an alert to a mod.Because like the quote above I learned something from my Grandad. That being part of the dal ith having freedom and having your say is that you must allow others to. Regardless of if it offends you aor whatever it does to you.

    I also find it funny how the first people to yap on about respecting others opinions and posts. Are the first to complain about those who differ in views and opinions. Which I find interesting because usually those are the same people who will tell me I'm an areshole for an honest opinion. Yet if the call came like it did for my Grandad 71 years ago I would be willing to do the same as he did.
  • 08-20-2011
    aerius
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    Now let us be clear. I have been on forums for a decade now. Only once have I ever on any of the forums sent an alert to a mod.Because like the quote above I learned something from my Grandad. That being part of the dal ith having freedom and having your say is that you must allow others to. Regardless of if it offends you aor whatever it does to you.

    And that is the truth which far too many forget or refuse to acknowledge. There's a lot of people out there who think freedom of speech means they can say whatever they want including truly stupid crap or outright lies and not face any consequences. Well that ain't quite true, while people can indeed say whatever they please it does come with a price; others are free to disagree and call them stupid for spewing verbal diarrhea. And of course if I start ragging on someone for being an idiot, others are free to call me an arsehole, and I'm free to tell them to butt out of my business and to go perform an anatomically impossible sex act on themselves.

    But the thing is this is a forum, freedom does not exist on a forum as they all operate under the concept of benevolent despotism. You only have as much "freedom" as the mods & administrators allow, and sometimes that ain't much. There's a lot of things my friends & I say to each other in real life that would get me banned within a day on most forums. And that's fine, because I know and accept that forums aren't free speech zones and act accordingly.
  • 08-20-2011
    Enduramil
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    And that is the truth which far too many forget or refuse to acknowledge. There's a lot of people out there who think freedom of speech means they can say whatever they want including truly stupid crap or outright lies and not face any consequences. Well that ain't quite true, while people can indeed say whatever they please it does come with a price; others are free to disagree and call them stupid for spewing verbal diarrhea. And of course if I start ragging on someone for being an idiot, others are free to call me an arsehole, and I'm free to tell them to butt out of my business and to go perform an anatomically impossible sex act on themselves.

    But the thing is this is a forum, freedom does not exist on a forum as they all operate under the concept of benevolent despotism. You only have as much "freedom" as the mods & administrators allow, and sometimes that ain't much. There's a lot of things my friends & I say to each other in real life that would get me banned within a day on most forums. And that's fine, because I know and accept that forums aren't free speech zones and act accordingly.

    It was the best way I can think of saying what I was thinking.

    Regardless of this being a forum and there being mods.... part of being on here is that while I may have an opinion and a view that I post. The other part I have to and do accept is that others will have a different view and words on the same thing. And I acknowledge that sometimes it may rub my "sensitivities" the wrong way and then I have a choice. Do I go all PC and whine to the mods and impose my will on others or shrug my shoulders and understand that is how they view the world... it is not a personal attack or whatever.

    Variety is the spice of life in all things. This place would be bloody boring if we all talked the same about riding and such. Like a gathering of Tri Geeks poring over HRM, SRM, and such data. Sure I admit I think singlespeeding is close to BDSM but on the flip side I know lots of people who think I'm nuts because I think trials style over logs/rocks and riding skinnies is fun.

    I won't even touch guys who think riding around in a circle for 24 hours is fun.
  • 08-20-2011
    CHUM
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    ...Sure I admit I think singlespeeding is close to BDSM...

    ...I won't even touch guys who think riding around in a circle for 24 hours is fun.

    SS'ing really does hurt soooo good :p

    and i wouldn't touch you either...

    unless you asked nicely
    :eek:
  • 08-20-2011
    Circlip
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    I won't even touch guys who think riding around in a circle for 24 hours is fun.

    I don't think riding around in a circle for 24 hours would be much fun. Riding around a course of twisty trails for 24 hours can be fun though.

    Back on to the larger topic, I agree with the sentiment that disagreeing with a post, or disagreeing with someone's disagreement in turn, is the nature of the beast when it comes to communicating on the internet. In of itself, a disproportionate number of posters agreeing with one side or another does not constitute badgering or harassment. That's just an expression of the preferences or opinion of the members of that forum (or whichever members choose to post in a given thread). Trying to pass that simple mechanism off as bullying, insular behaviour, or an unjust/unwarranted "might is right" scenario etc. is ridiculous. Forum members may start threads, but they do not own them. Anyone who wants to have free run to post whatever they want and be able to exercise control over feedback from the community, try a personal blog instead.

    Some reasonable limits exist that have been defined by the mods such as glaring obscenities, racist, or misogynist comments. Disagreement isn't on that list, no mattter how numerous or repetitive.
  • 08-20-2011
    CHUM
    since 'daycare' was brought up in the OP's post I'll equate a game of 'Duck, Duck Goose' as to what I see happening here.

    a new kid comes to your school and participates in Duck, Duck Goose....but he's never picked...ever...

    he is always the duck....a lame duck. he gets to see all the other kids run trying not to be the goose...missing the fun

    pretty soon the lame duck is really sick and tired of always being the goddamn duck...so much that he finds others who feel left out and forms his own lame duck group.

    then ya gotta bunch of ornery geese on one side and tattle ducks on the other - missing the point of the game entirely.

    so...for the love of god would some of you Geese please pick a lame duck once in a while so they feel included....

    and you Tattle Ducks - thicken your hide a bit....the Geese are OK....go play other games every so often and get to know other players on the playground.

    my totally incoherent opinion.
  • 08-20-2011
    Enduramil
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    SS'ing really does hurt soooo good :p

    and i wouldn't touch you either...

    unless you asked nicely
    :eek:

    Unless you look something like,

    Warning... gratuitus sexual cycling content. If easily offended do not click on link.

    Boobies :: liz_hatch_gm_l14.jpg picture by Endurimil - Photobucket

    Only with a 10 foot cattle prod.:p
  • 08-20-2011
    raganwald
    1 Attachment(s)
    Folks, stop what you’re doing and have a good, long look at the moon.
  • 08-20-2011
    singlesprocket
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtbmeister View Post
    Well, let's see how long this one stays up and how long it is until I am sent to the corner. I am a regular poster as many of you know, as well as a visible participant in the local mtb community.

    I have taken on the role of a lurker for the past few weeks as the idea of sharing any opinion about any specific ideas of others or otherwise has been squashed by the hall monitors at recess. Seriously, this has gotten ridiculous. And being there are references to "what canucks do" on the forums or other generalizations by the moderators themselves, where does having a babysitter really benefit anyone.

    It's very unfortunate that a couple of rather micro-minded individuals have gotten the attention of the moderators to a point that we can't just post as we have for years now in these forums. I am wondering if I am the only one that feels this way, but I doubt not. Being I have lost a lot of interest in posting on this forum in the past few weeks due to these activities, the juvenile discipline isn't going to hurt too much.

    However, perhaps we can create some momentum to understanding some realities that exist with the participants of this forum if anyone else cares to speak up. If not, that's cool. I am okay sitting in the corner by myself :rolleyes:.

    wait a minute , i thought you were one of members advocating for one of your friends to be a mod? why the turn around?
  • 08-20-2011
    Enduramil
    <iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cODolsPxhaU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • 08-20-2011
    mtbmeister
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    wait a minute , i thought you were one of members advocating for one of your friends to be a mod? why the turn around?

    I haven't really advocated anyone to be a mod, but friend or regardless, they would be local to the riding community. Not sure where you got that from, but I have no recollection of advocating anyone any time recently.

    Some valid points being made by many here, and I am glad I have stayed out of timeout, which is the way it should be for just stating your opinion!
  • 08-20-2011
    singlesprocket
    love the search function :thumbsup: so in other words even i can be a mod? i do have experience of being a mod on a mtb forum... as well as being fair and impartial...


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtbmeister View Post
    I haven't really advocated anyone to be a mod, but friend or regardless, they would be local to the riding community. Not sure where you got that from, but I have no recollection of advocating anyone any time recently.

    Some valid points being made by many here, and I am glad I have stayed out of timeout, which is the way it should be for just stating your opinion!

  • 08-20-2011
    Enduramil
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    love the search function :thumbsup: so in other words even i can be a mod? i do have experience of being a mod on a mtb forum... as well as being fair and impartial...

    First rule.. anyone asking for the position should not have the position.
  • 08-20-2011
    osokolo
    you are getting there...
    starting to understand this forum a bit better - that is good...

    so far Geese tried to include Ducks on more than few occasions, but were denied, sometimes rudely. Every single Goose around here has it's face and name in real life. They don't hide it or crop their pics so that someone doesn't recognize them on the trail...

    Ducks do quite the opposite. For unbeknownst to Geese, reasons.

    Acceptance is a two way street. Geese tried.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    since 'daycare' was brought up in the OP's post I'll equate a game of 'Duck, Duck Goose' as to what I see happening here.

    a new kid comes to your school and participates in Duck, Duck Goose....but he's never picked...ever...

    he is always the duck....a lame duck. he gets to see all the other kids run trying not to be the goose...missing the fun

    pretty soon the lame duck is really sick and tired of always being the goddamn duck...so much that he finds others who feel left out and forms his own lame duck group.

    then ya gotta bunch of ornery geese on one side and tattle ducks on the other - missing the point of the game entirely.

    so...for the love of god would some of you Geese please pick a lame duck once in a while so they feel included....

    and you Tattle Ducks - thicken your hide a bit....the Geese are OK....go play other games every so often and get to know other players on the playground.

    my totally incoherent opinion.

  • 08-20-2011
    osokolo
    oh god... i think we know that forum as well as what happened to it...
  • 08-20-2011
    osokolo
    So you signed up on this forum in July 2009, and your first post happens in August 2011. Could this be your backup account or you are just a lurker? What made you post for the first time (under this account) after more than 2 years?

    How would you solve perceived "problem" on this forum?

    Also, if there are much better ways to spend your time - why do you bother posting in this particular thread? It is kinda hypocritical.
  • 08-20-2011
    Enduramil
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    starting to understand this forum a bit better - that is good...

    so far Geese tried to include Ducks on more than few occasions, but were denied, sometimes rudely. Every single Goose around here has it's face and name in real life. They don't hide it or crop their pics so that someone doesn't recognize them on the trail...

    Ducks do quite the opposite. For unbeknownst to Geese, reasons.

    Acceptance is a two way street. Geese tried.

    Hmm.. Geese and Duck are yummy.
  • 08-21-2011
    want to ride
    about that....
    some "people" not willing to show his face on this forum but he posts pics about his car and everything else....
    It is just matter of time to run into him at a trailhead standing around his car acting as a busy bee to avoid an eye contact just to make sure he don't have to say hello or give a nod for a fellow mtbiker....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    By the way he didn't park at the main parking area it was another access point which happens to be really close to freshly built features on the trail....

    I'm not a social butterfly by all means but I'm always try to be friendly with other people who's sharing the same passion with me.

    True story......





    Quote:

    Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    starting to understand this forum a bit better - that is good...

    so far Geese tried to include Ducks on more than few occasions, but were denied, sometimes rudely. Every single Goose around here has it's face and name in real life. They don't hide it or crop their pics so that someone doesn't recognize them on the trail...

    Ducks do quite the opposite. For unbeknownst to Geese, reasons.

    Acceptance is a two way street. Geese tried.

  • 08-21-2011
    dhpunk~
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    ... as well as being fair and impartial...


    say what?
    maybe you could post a short video of yourself repeating that quote with a straight face.....

    wear a disguise ofcourse :cool:
  • 08-21-2011
    chansen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    love the search function :thumbsup: so in other words even i can be a mod? i do have experience of being a mod on a mtb forum... as well as being fair and impartial...

    Are you talking about your Bolton Mountain Bike Club forum? The black-themed one? You had multiple accounts on that forum, and your accounts had conversations. I don't say that to be funny or confrontational - that's just a fact.
  • 08-21-2011
    singlesprocket
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    First rule.. anyone asking for the position should not have the position.

    so where am i asking to be a mod? but you bring up an interesting issue...

    points to look for in a eastern canada mod:

    -internet savy (knowing how to post pics, moderator experience, etc)
    -fair
    -impartial
    -mature
    -eastern canada knowledge (all of eastern canada, not just albion hills/toronto)
    -multiple riding style knowledge
    -supportive/empathetic
    -management skills/experience (this is important because the skills are totally transferable with regards to basic standards of behavoir)
    -sense of humor
    -consistent

    i see a lot of these qualities in the current moderation...
  • 08-21-2011
    singlesprocket
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chansen View Post
    Are you talking about your Bolton Mountain Bike Club forum? The black-themed one? You had multiple accounts on that forum, and your accounts had conversations. I don't say that to be funny or confrontational - that's just a fact.

    that forum is just an archive that has been shut down for years, even though it did win an award it's had very limited features (no embedding, etc)... oh and that's not the forum i'm talking about...
  • 08-21-2011
    osokolo
    Quote:


    You have no idea how wrong you are. Being a real life friend of someone who has shown me some of the crap on this forum, it's more along the lines of can't stand each other and if met in real life, punches would be thrown and bikes would be smashed.
    You must be kidding? Your real life friend told you that? Did he also tell you he found Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq?

    I guess you have been lurking for a long time as well and just decided to sign up TODAY so that you can post your opinion?

    Weird how new accounts have started to pop up like MUSHROOMS after the rain (pun intended) and these accounts talk to each other. Deja-vu?

    Good try.
  • 08-21-2011
    osokolo
    hmm, editing own posts much?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bbshanks View Post
    You have no idea how wrong you are.

    why did you remove this statement from your post?

    Quote:

    Being a real life friend of someone who has shown me some of the crap on this forum, it's more along the lines of can't stand each other and if met in real life, punches would be thrown and bikes would be smashed.
    are you admitting it was a lie - by retracting it?

    we know someone else who likes to edit his own posts often. multiple times as well. you guys are posting right now, in the same time span, like you are sitting next to each other.

    weird...
  • 08-21-2011
    CHUM
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enduramil View Post
    First rule.. anyone asking for the position should not have the position.

    aw crap
    http://forums.mtbr.com/california-no...od-722172.html

    does this mean I'm fired...
    ;)
  • 08-21-2011
    dhpunk~
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chansen View Post
    Are you talking about your Bolton Mountain Bike Club forum? The black-themed one? You had multiple accounts on that forum, and your accounts had conversations. I don't say that to be funny or confrontational - that's just a fact.

    just to clearify.....

    when you say " You had multiple accounts on that forum, and your accounts had conversations."

    are you saying he personally signed in as multiple screen names? to create conversations within his own self moderated Forum?

    :skep:
  • 08-21-2011
    singlesprocket
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dhpunk~ View Post
    just to clearify.....

    when you say " You had multiple accounts on that forum, and your accounts had conversations."

    are you saying he personally signed in as multiple screen names? to create conversations within his own self moderated Forum?

    :skep:

    ummm where did i say that :rolleyes:

    that's a red herring (un truth) as well as accusing me of having sock puppets here. accusing someone on a forum for having sock puppets is one of oldest troll
    tatics out there as well as being a sock puppet. anyway the mods can easilly confirm this. so give it a break and stop the bs... though there appears to be sock puppets here (the mods are aware, that's why they are mods), really i'm not bothered by this, the sock puppet still has to follow the rules.

    anyway some of these posts remind me of this old thread...

    http://forums.mtbr.com/eastern-canad...ck-568720.html
  • 08-21-2011
    chansen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dhpunk~ View Post
    just to clearify.....

    when you say " You had multiple accounts on that forum, and your accounts had conversations."

    are you saying he personally signed in as multiple screen names? to create conversations within his own self moderated Forum?

    :skep:

    Yes. Definitely.
  • 08-21-2011
    singlesprocket
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chansen View Post
    Yes. Definitely.

    suggest you read your own posts again, and anyone else who wants to know the details

    http://forums.mtbr.com/eastern-canada/bmbc-583975.html

    once again get over it... :rolleyes:
  • 08-21-2011
    chansen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    suggest you read your own posts again, and anyone else who wants to know the details

    http://forums.mtbr.com/eastern-canada/bmbc-583975.html

    once again get over it... :rolleyes:

    I'm not upset or anything. It's just when you nominate yourself for a forum admin position based on experience, and the only forum I'm aware of you acting as an administrator on, was mostly populated by your alter-egos, I think it is reasonable to point that out.

    I'm not vying for any administrator position here, and I've not been part of this latest round of drama. I do note that it seems to follow you around. I acknowledge you have vast amounts of experience in this sport, and with trail building and features and nature and many other related things. I do think you could be more tactful about things, and that this would both further your causes and help overall morale.
  • 08-21-2011
    rockcrusher
    evidently i just give you guys rope and you can tie it yourself then?

    We suggest that you all revisit the suggestion to use the ignore list provided so that your experience here is less antagonistic and more mountain bicyclistic. Strongly suggest.

    A reminder that puppet accounts are generally dealt with in banning both the puppet and the alternate user account outright. If there are any puppet accounts in here you can contact me via PM and I will delete the account and not your original account. If I find them on my own accord I will delete all multiple accounts and ban the IP's associate with them.
  • 08-21-2011
    garage monster
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    I guess you have been lurking for a long time as well and just decided to sign up TODAY so that you can post your opinion?

    I will say that I have noticed a fair amount of people starting new accounts to comment on things rather obliquely recently. I can't say what possesses them to join and post at that precise moment but given that the amount of people viewing Eastern Canada at any given time is almost 2/3 lurkers, I guess I shouldn't be *that* surprised. :skep:
  • 08-21-2011
    veteran_youth
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by singlesprocket View Post
    love the search function :thumbsup: so in other words even i can be a mod? i do have experience of being a mod on a mtb forum... as well as being fair and impartial...

    Hey, remember when you deleted a post of mine on dropmachine? A particularly well thought out and articulated 1000 word monster of a post? And then said "oops, sorry, I was eating a burger and hit the wrong button"?

    That was awesome. Totally fair and impartial.
  • 08-21-2011
    CHUM
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by veteran_youth View Post
    Hey, remember when you deleted a post of mine on dropmachine? A particularly well thought out and articulated 1000 word monster of a post? And then said "oops, sorry, I was eating a burger and hit the wrong button"?

    That was awesome. Totally fair and impartial.

    i've done that :lol:

    it's surprisingly easy to do....
  • 08-21-2011
    singlesprocket
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    i've done that :lol:

    it's surprisingly easy to do....

    and i let veteran youth know what happened right away and apologized publicly after trying to recover the post. it was an accident and not malicious in any way. so yah can say it was fair/impartial... after that i don't mod while eating dinner, to easy to have an accident...