Bullies in the cycling community?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Bullies in the cycling community?

    Singlesprocket had asked me a question about "bullies" in the cycling community in the Whips thread, but since that branch of the thread is no longer available I will take the opportunity to answer the question below.

    Yes, I certainly have encountered bullies in the cycling community. Spending many years with my own children in various social environments it's always been very interesting to observe their behaviour, and also to draw parallels with the behvaiour of adults.

    One of the most curious observations is that bullies come in in many shapes and sizes, not just the textbook "in your face" physical intimidators. Those are easier to read, and their lack of tact makes them easily detected in a group setting.

    Then there is the type of kids that come into a room, or environment, or community practicing their bullycraft with a higher level of art. They poke, prod, pinch, and generally antagonize the other children just out of sight of the adults or authority figures. Each single transgression may not be quite as visible, but the cumulative effect if their acts is quite significant. When the inevitable occurs and the other children react, the bully retreats behind their selected authority figure positioning themselves as the victim. Only having the benefit of seeing the current situation, the authority figure sides with the bully and administers consequences.

    Eventually, one by one the other children are cowed into a submissive stance as they fear the potential consequences. The underlying cause is no doubt a lack of basic morals and ethics, given that the bully sees no issues with their fluid manipulation of these core values.

    Returning to the original question, in the cycling community I have encountered both the straight-up bully and also this other type of bully I describe above, sometimes on the trails and other times within community groups of various types.

    Often the physical bullying morphs over time into intellectual bullying, but the motivations and effect is similar.

    Has anyone else ever encountered this type of bully within the cycling community?

  2. #2
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    I read between the lines. Slick.

    Honestly, there's been bad behaviour on both sides. Would this forum be better without the constant pick-pick-pick? Damn straight. I'm sure I'm being a bully here, myself, but I'm not quite certain why singlesprocket is so keen to participate in this community. Obviously not for the friendship.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl
    I'm sure I'm being a bully here
    Being called a bully doesn't necessarily make you one. Nor can bullying be automatically assumed to lie on either side of an individual/group dynamic.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl
    I'm not quite certain why singlesprocket is so keen to participate in this community. Obviously not for the friendship.
    a dog doesn't piss on every hydrant he passes because he has a bladder infection.

    it's about (pre)assumed entitlement and base pride.

    eventually his work on mtbr will be done - by default (no one left to play with) or by ejection (mods sack up and toss the squeaky sprocket) - no different than everywhere else he has infected.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip

    Often the physical bullying morphs over time into intellectual bullying, but the motivations and effect is similar.

    Has anyone else ever encountered this type of bully within the cycling community?
    Yes. Frequently in cycling. Used to be primarily the domain of the roadie but has cross bred into other disciplines of cycling.

  6. #6
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    I honnestly can't recall being involved in a single bullying incident with regards to cycling. Then again, I may just be too dumb to recognise it.

    If you're ever trying to bully me and all you get is a blank stare, don't take it personally. I'm probably just still processing.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    a dog doesn't piss on every hydrant he passes because he has a bladder infection.

    it's about (pre)assumed entitlement and base pride.

    eventually his work on mtbr will be done - by default (no one left to play with) or by ejection (mods sack up and toss the squeaky sprocket) - no different than everywhere else he has infected.
    like where?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil
    Yes. Frequently in cycling. Used to be primarily the domain of the roadie but has cross bred into other disciplines of cycling.
    good point...
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  9. #9
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    No

    "Has anyone else ever encountered this type of bully within the cycling community?"

    No
    I have run into strong personalities, but have not been forced into anything.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    Singlesprocket had asked me a question about "bullies" in the cycling community in the Whips thread, but since that branch of the thread is no longer available I will take the opportunity to answer the question below.

    Yes, I certainly have encountered bullies in the cycling community. Spending many years with my own children in various social environments it's always been very interesting to observe their behaviour, and also to draw parallels with the behvaiour of adults.

    One of the most curious observations is that bullies come in in many shapes and sizes, not just the textbook "in your face" physical intimidators. Those are easier to read, and their lack of tact makes them easily detected in a group setting.

    Then there is the type of kids that come into a room, or environment, or community practicing their bullycraft with a higher level of art. They poke, prod, pinch, and generally antagonize the other children just out of sight of the adults or authority figures. Each single transgression may not be quite as visible, but the cumulative effect if their acts is quite significant. When the inevitable occurs and the other children react, the bully retreats behind their selected authority figure positioning themselves as the victim. Only having the benefit of seeing the current situation, the authority figure sides with the bully and administers consequences.

    Eventually, one by one the other children are cowed into a submissive stance as they fear the potential consequences. The underlying cause is no doubt a lack of basic morals and ethics, given that the bully sees no issues with their fluid manipulation of these core values.

    Returning to the original question, in the cycling community I have encountered both the straight-up bully and also this other type of bully I describe above, sometimes on the trails and other times within community groups of various types.

    Often the physical bullying morphs over time into intellectual bullying, but the motivations and effect is similar.

    Has anyone else ever encountered this type of bully within the cycling community?
    that is not the question i asked. the question was why do you support bullying behavoiur?

    lets step back and cite some examples from this forum of such called behavoir...

    -threats of physical volence
    -threats of posting private/personal medical information
    -making derogatory remarks and harrasing female members
    -libel on many different levels
    and so on... very few responded or told the bully to stop, this behavoir was urged on and in fact some joined in. people who spoke out where targeted, usually in a crude manner.
    this behavoir is still happening as you well know... so in a way you answered your own question (not mine)

    in the past this type of behavoir was directed to "freds" or "barneys". i've deplored this behavoir and name calling. i've used to run a thursday night skill ride that welcomed all
    types of riders of all skill levels. advice/direction was given, as well as no one was "dropped" the ride was structured so everyone had a great time. as was stated this is quite common in roadie circles with the spillover into xc. backed when i raced i was often accused of cheating when i placed well since i didn't fit the standard profile and rode a singlespeed (no singlespeed class, go figure), actually it was quite funny.

    though one area which is very accomendating to new riders is downhilling. alot of support is shown from the community.
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 07-21-2010 at 06:01 PM.
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  11. #11
    I dd what you see there.
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    The Wentworth stairs bullied me today....

    lol, I dunno...

    I really do not understand why people want 'bullying' to stop though. It all depends on how you look at it. To me, it's merely just another challenge in the day to day life everyone has to live. Children and apparently many adults need to learn that in spite of their belief, they are NOT entitled to or owed anything. Conflict is everywhere. When someone says "no" or another challenge is placed in your path or something/someone presents any sort of alternative situation to what you would consider optimal, you do NOT go running to cry in the corner and suck your thumb. You exploit your resources (intelligence, physical abiliity, experience etc) and you OVERCOME. I really don't care if it's some internet bobo or the wentworth stairs, I give it my best every day. Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn a valuble lesson, but the important part it that you TRY. Is the internet bobo some loser and the "argument" amounts to nothing? Absolutely. However, standing up for yourself on here might just be the catalyst you need to stand up somewhere else in your life that DOES matter (ie, conquering those wentworth stairs).

    Heck, if nothing else at least internet bullying is an entertaining way to kill a few minutes.

    My 2 cents.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    though one area which is very accomendating to new riders is downhilling. alot of support is shown from the community.

    As an antidote to this, personally I have never had a bad experience with the XC. Actually have met some awesome people that have gone out of their way to help me when I was getting going in more serious training and they were well up the chain. I have however been laughed at going up the lift at Blue on more than one occasion because of the bike I was taking to the top. I've also sat in the lift with a very prominent member of the Ontario AM/FR/DH community and been appalled by the attitude displayed.

  13. #13
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    Sorry to hear that your experiece on the lift was not positive.
    I'm fairly new to downhilling myself and my experience has been encouraging. I have ridden in many downhill locations including Blue. I have encountered nothing but positive support from staff and riders on the lift and from world class to novice riders on the hill.

  14. #14
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    Once again we have some posters revealing their true colours by expressing a bias against people because of the type of bike they ride, or the type of riding they do.

    Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but it's about the people on those bikes, not the bikes or where they choose to ride. I've encountered less than exemplary behaviour at times from DHers, casual freeriders, XCers, roadies, urban BMXers, you name it. Sometimes between the different groups and sometimes within their own groups. The majority of cyclists I meet within all these disciplines are great folks given the chance. The small minority of exceptions would find a way to make themselves a blight on the face of the planet whether they were riders of any type, or even non-riders just because that's the type of people they are.

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    I hate all types of riders equally, with great ferver.

  16. #16
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    so what is this small minority type of people you speak off?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    so what is this small minority type of people you speak off?
    If I understood your question I may try to answer it, but I'm at a loss with reagrd to how much more clearly I could deliver my message. There's not a lot of ambiguity there unless you want a peer reviewed paper based on double blind protocols.

    As for your other questions, I've made my opinion known to Oggie in the past. I stand by my original post in this thread also. Every word of it.

  18. #18
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    I think I'll become a roadie. It will be easier to fulfill the the stereotypical expectations.
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  19. #19
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    actually this statement that you make above:

    "but I'm at a loss with reagrd to how much more clearly I could deliver my message. There's not a lot of ambiguity there unless you want a peer reviewed paper based on double blind protocols. "

    fits into what you state here:

    "Often the physical bullying morphs over time into intellectual bullying, but the motivations and effect is similar."

    wow a bit of projection going on...
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    wow a bit of projection going on...
    If the shoe fits...

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    If the shoe fits...
    you made the statements, it comes from your perspective, your the one intellectualizing
    in a derogatory manner... it stinks like your shoe

    and from all the posts going on now here, it is clear that this behavoir is supported. what i find interesting is that you trying to create an enviroment where this behavoir can continue unimpeded through the guise of moderation within the group. kinda like what you said about the bullies hiding behind the authority figure. you have jumped to conclusions without any facts that i'm responsable for this members banning. you also flamed the mob to direct attacks against myself based on erroneous assumptions. this shows a clear support for this type of behavoir and a complete lack of understanding what is going on here in this forum.

    it's a clear disregard from the rules of behaviour...
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 07-22-2010 at 04:03 AM.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    you have jumped to conclusions without any facts that i'm responsable for this members banning. you also flamed the mob to direct attacks against myself based on erroneous assumptions.
    WRONG.
    while i can't speak for the 'mob' this incident of which you speak merely served as an impetus to enlightenment...it helped me realize that 'ignore' just isn't enough.

    FACT is, your toxic blahs infect other people.
    your passive aggressive 'whoooooaaa is me attitude' towards life and ride and now even the freaking internet is nothing short of ironic. you whimper and whine about bullying all the while you stick a pu$$y or biatch into the people that don't share your 'live and let live - but just like me' line.

    oggie lacks tact. he is confrontational and direct. Pabst Tyred is much the same and there are numerous others.
    i will take the devil i know anyday over your constant needling.

    you have employed guerilla tactics more akin to water torture then free and intellectual debate.

    when you go off and moan...
    you are irrelevant.
    you are a drain.
    ...at least now, seeing the reaction taking place, there might ACTUALLY be some merit to your self-proclaimed martyr status.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil
    I hate all types of riders equally, with great ferver.
    Hate is such a strong sentiment.

    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    intellectualizing in a derogatory manner
    I see post containing my generic musings in response to a question you asked of me. Do you think that I am describing a specific person?

    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    you also flamed the mob to direct attacks against myself based on erroneous assumptions.
    According to what I wrote, I did not suggest that any specific opinion be directed against any specific person. Surely there cannot be a specific rule in the MTBR guidelines prohibiting saying nothing about no one?

    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    you have jumped to conclusions
    You have jumped to conclusions about my conclusions, and made multiple assumptions above that are not contained in the actual text.

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    "you have employed guerilla tactics more akin to water torture then free and intellectual debate."

    Come on, is this really what you think?

    And Oggie did not push it too far?

  30. #30
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    i see you started your usual pontification based on 2nd hand gossip, out
    right lies and a veiled threat... all of which have been addressed before.

    and from the post below lots of moaning also... i have been very restrained
    through out this whole episode... i think all the posts speak better then i could ever.
    anyone looking in can see the posters true nature and draw their own conclusions of the going on's. i'm not going to respond to this issue anymore, i'm going to ride my bike and build trails...



    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    WRONG.
    while i can't speak for the 'mob' this incident of which you speak merely served as an impetus to enlightenment...it helped me realize that 'ignore' just isn't enough.

    FACT is, your toxic blahs infect other people.
    your passive aggressive 'whoooooaaa is me attitude' towards life and ride and now even the freaking internet is nothing short of ironic. you whimper and whine about bullying all the while you stick a pu$$y or biatch into the people that don't share your 'live and let live - but just like me' line.

    oggie lacks tact. he is confrontational and direct. Pabst Tyred is much the same and there are numerous others.
    i will take the devil i know anyday over your constant needling.

    you have employed guerilla tactics more akin to water torture then free and intellectual debate.

    when you go off and moan...
    you are irrelevant.
    you are a drain.
    ...at least now, seeing the reaction taking place, there might ACTUALLY be some merit to your self-proclaimed martyr status.
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 07-22-2010 at 02:34 PM.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    Hate is such a strong sentiment.
    The hate is strong in me.

  32. #32
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    In all of my years in cycling I have never encountered "a bully". I guess I've been lucky. I used to ride and race with the Brampton club but now pretty well just mountain bike. No matter where I am though and no matter how many people I encounter riding, everyone is friendly and more than willing to stop and chat. About the only type of negativity I have encounter is in here and that's something I can't figure out! But maybe I'm in Garage Monster's category and I just don't recognize it.
    "
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    i'm going to ride my bike and build trails...
    if you could provide a listing where on the latter that would be super.

    of course someone will mail you a plaque if you'd like but at least knowing the general location would make it easier for the rightful stakeholders to fix, alter or remove trails built without permission and not in keeping with the intended usage.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    if you could provide a listing where on the latter that would be super.

    of course someone will mail you a plaque if you'd like but at least knowing the general location would make it easier for the rightful stakeholders to fix, alter or remove trails built without permission and not in keeping with the intended usage.

    singlesprocket has posted many threads on trail projects and features that he has been working on ie Bruce Trail, Don Valley, City of Missaugua, City of Toronto and other conservation areas

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclelicious
    singlesprocket has posted many threads on trail projects and features that he has been working on ie Bruce Trail, Don Valley, City of Missaugua, City of Toronto and other conservation areas
    thank you.
    this does not answer my point in the least.

    i hope that 2010 sprocket is receiving the appropriate permissions and working in conjunction with landowners, managers and appropriate agencies in these cases.
    that kind of cooperation would make his work commendable...otherwise...remember when Kramer wanted to offer luxurious lanes for everyone?

    it's not always the thought that counts.
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  36. #36
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    oh I think you guys would recognize a bully if you came across one, life's real a-holes go out of their way to make themselves obvious.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    rightful stakeholders
    vs non rightful stakeholders? by gawd nimby. the next thing those
    non rightful stakeholders will be asking to do will be to vote! can't have that, got to chase them all away...

    actually so called non rightful stakeholders have always been around the ravines...
    for the past 12'000 years and counting...
    http://maps.library.utoronto.ca/dvhm...56-Bonnell.pdf
    http://www.chrs.ca/Rivers/Humber/Humber-F_e.htm

    change is a blowin in the wind...
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    vs non rightful stakeholders? by gawd nimby. the next thing those
    non rightful stakeholders will be asking to do will be to vote! can't have that, got to chase them all away...

    actually so called non rightful stakeholders have always been around the ravines...
    for the past 12'000 years and counting...
    http://maps.library.utoronto.ca/dvhm...56-Bonnell.pdf
    http://www.chrs.ca/Rivers/Humber/Humber-F_e.htm

    change is a blowin in the wind...
    you sense

    make no...

    http://www.uh.edu/writecen/English%2...s/sentence.htm

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    you have jumped to conclusions.
    You're absolutely right; I did jump to a conclusion but I get it now. It took me a couple days but I understand exactly what happened. Plausible deniability. Well palyed. Checkmate.
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  40. #40
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    my mommy says bullies are bad

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    vs non rightful stakeholders? by gawd nimby. the next thing those
    non rightful stakeholders will be asking to do will be to vote! can't have that, got to chase them all away...

    actually so called non rightful stakeholders have always been around the ravines...
    for the past 12'000 years and counting...
    http://maps.library.utoronto.ca/dvhm...56-Bonnell.pdf
    http://www.chrs.ca/Rivers/Humber/Humber-F_e.htm

    change is a blowin in the wind...
    the whistling you hear is apparently coming from betwixt your ears...

    wtf is this response of yours?

    you build/support illegal trails because, wha???
    or you don't build/support illegal trails?
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  42. #42
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    aahhh, right on cue. very predictable and in your style... reductio ad absurdum
    anyway if you didn't have your ignore feature on you might know the answer to this...

    what the heck, i'll help you out. i neither agree nor disagree... you know the whole death and taxes thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    the whistling you hear is apparently coming from betwixt your ears...

    wtf is this response of yours?

    you build/support illegal trails because, wha???
    or you don't build/support illegal trails?
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    i neither agree nor disagree... you know the whole death and taxes thing...
    translation.
    if i want a trail or feature i add one. i am entitled to do so because (still looking for this answer but this is all you provided) i will pay taxes until i die.

    if you do not support me or the trails i build (when and where i feel like it) then you are nothing more than a hateful elitist bully...

    got it.

    whoa is martyr chris, patron saint of self entitlement.
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  45. #45
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    So much hate. Why can't we be friends?
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    translation.
    if i want a trail or feature i add one. i am entitled to do so because (still looking for this answer but this is all you provided) i will pay taxes until i die.

    if you do not support me or the trails i build (when and where i feel like it) then you are nothing more than a hateful elitist bully...

    got it.

    whoa is martyr chris, patron saint of self entitlement.
    whoa there pontiff, i can see you want an inquisition...

    Quite a lot of egos at play here resulting in perceived entitlement to maintain insular control over the type and direction of the trails in certain riding areas. As can been by the mob postings. The insular group labeling anyone asking questions or otherwise as an arrogant provocateur is a diversionary tactic. It has been shown that the due process does not follow the stated standards or the ideals put forth by the living city/working together vision. You can combayah all you want and point fingers to those “outside” the circle as the problem, but it will not solve the problem. As a matter of fact all you are doing is creating an even larger problem. It is much more reasonable and cheaper to do the opposite. That way the wasted money/effort on enforcement resulting in negative community interactions can be directed to more important things like invasive species control, stewardship, etc…
    It surprises me how easily people fall into the nimby mindset and loose track that they live in/near a diverse city of 6 million…
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 07-28-2010 at 04:06 AM.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    whoa there pontiff, i can see you want an inquisition...

    Quite a lot of egos at play here resulting in perceived entitlement to maintain insular control over the type and direction of the trails in certain riding areas. As can been by the mob postings. The insular group labeling anyone asking questions or otherwise as an arrogant provocateur is a diversionary tactic. It has been shown that the due process does not follow the stated standards or the ideals put forth by the living city/working together vision. You can combayah all you want and point fingers to those “outside” the circle as the problem, but it will not solve the problem. As a matter of fact all you are doing is creating an even larger problem. It is much more reasonable and cheaper to do the opposite. That way the wasted money/effort on enforcement resulting in negative community interactions can be directed to more important things like invasive species control, stewardship, etc…
    It surprises me how easily people fall into the nimby mindset and loose track that they live in/near a diverse city of 6 million…
    is your response REALLY the wikipedia version of "i know you are but what am i?"

    chris - IF you are working with land managers and receiving permission for the features and trails you are building i commend you. i simply asked for clarification on this...by refusing to answer or answering in rhythm and rhyme i must assume that you haven't.

    bullying takes many forms.
    you use the term BULLY to describe the way in which people express the negative feeling(s) they have developed towards you - as a person. these feelings are based on actual interactions with YOU, either through direct personal contact or your cyber contributions.

    people simply not agreeing with or not liking you, is NOT bullying...it's a reflection.

    how is YOU forcing YOUR will on the general public, on land owners and stakeholders (by taking over, modifying or adding a segment of trail) NOT a form of bullying?

    The insular group labeling anyone asking questions or otherwise as an arrogant provocateur is a diversionary tactic. It has been shown that the due process does not follow the stated standards or the ideals put forth by the living city/working together vision.
    this, is not an appropriate response...you are waiving a flag of oppression to conceal subversive acts intended for personal gain...you are neither an activist nor part of a repressed minority...anarchy is NOT part of any (logical) "living city/working together vision" either.
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  48. #48
    humber river advocate
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    Classic… blame the victims
    You know if it was just me people might be fooled into believing you, but it is not and the
    results are layed out for all to see. You are in the minority, slipping into obscurity and you don't even realize it. http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/report...cimareport.pdf

    You can make whatever assumptions/blame you want, but that does not change the situation in the slightest. In fact a whole new generation of riders are digging away all over, oh and they are not xc riders. it is a fact of economics, long work hours, can't afford a car/gas, can't afford entrance fee's, no recreational facilities, no voice, no avenues... they are showing stewardship in the communities they live in, not anarchy. that is part of the living city vision, not the nimby mentality. the more you try to squash it the more it will sprout up... (kinda like the mushrooms i take pictures of). much more easier to work together in a fair equable manner and build positive community relations...

    One can present the same argument that you (as an insular group) are forcing your will/dogma on the greater general public who has no voice or has obstacles placed in their way to prevent involvement. You seem to be doing quite well hiding behind authority figures (see first post of this thread) and the policies of the nanny state to present your prejudiced arguments…
    accountability or transparency is lacking by any proven authority/committee here . Nor a meaningful and interactive way the public can be involved. Many feel this is a sham. This feeling was echoed by another local stake holder group whose meeting I attended last night (over a hundred members!).What was interesting was that the meeting was well attended by business owners. All upstanding members of the community might I add, and a far cry from the hid under you bed anarchist you talk about… Your flip flopping like a fish...

    You mention on how I benefit from this… please provide examples. Actually all my donations have come from my own pocket and I expect nothing in return, not even a mention. Perhaps the same question should be asked of you and others?

    the pot calling the kettle black eh?




    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    is your response REALLY the wikipedia version of "i know you are but what am i?"

    chris - IF you are working with land managers and receiving permission for the features and trails you are building i commend you. i simply asked for clarification on this...by refusing to answer or answering in rhythm and rhyme i must assume that you haven't.

    bullying takes many forms.
    you use the term BULLY to describe the way in which people express the negative feeling(s) they have developed towards you - as a person. these feelings are based on actual interactions with YOU, either through direct personal contact or your cyber contributions.

    people simply not agreeing with or not liking you, is NOT bullying...it's a reflection.

    how is YOU forcing YOUR will on the general public, on land owners and stakeholders (by taking over, modifying or adding a segment of trail) NOT a form of bullying?



    this, is not an appropriate response...you are waiving a flag of oppression to conceal subversive acts intended for personal gain...you are neither an activist nor part of a repressed minority...anarchy is NOT part of any (logical) "living city/working together vision" either.
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 07-29-2010 at 04:09 AM.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    Classic… blame the victims
    You know if it was just me people might be fooled into believing you, but it is not and the
    results are layed out for all to see. You are in the minority, slipping into obscurity and you don't even realize it. http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/report...cimareport.pdf

    You can make whatever assumptions/blame you want, but that does not change the situation in the slightest. In fact a whole new generation of riders are digging away all over, oh and they are not xc riders. it is a fact of economics, long work hours, can't afford a car/gas, can't afford entrance fee's, no recreational facilities, no voice, no avenues... they are showing stewardship in the communities they live in, not anarchy. that is part of the living city vision, not the nimby mentality. the more you try to squash it the more it will sprout up... (kinda like the mushrooms i take pictures of). much more easier to work together in a fair equable manner and build positive community relations...

    One can present the same argument that you (as an insular group) are forcing your will/dogma on the greater general public who has no voice or has obstacles placed in their way to prevent involvement. You seem to be doing quite well hiding behind authority figures (see first post of this thread) and the policies of the nanny state to present your prejudiced arguments…
    accountability or transparency is lacking by any proven authority/committee here . Nor a meaningful and interactive way the public can be involved. Many feel this is a sham. This feeling was echoed by another local stake holder group whose meeting I attended last night (over a hundred members!).What was interesting was that the meeting was well attended by business owners. All upstanding members of the community might I add, and a far cry from the hid under you bed anarchist you talk about… Your flip flopping like a fish...

    You mention on how I benefit from this… please provide examples. Actually all my donations have come from my own pocket and I expect nothing in return, not even a mention. Perhaps the same question should be asked of you and others?

    the pot calling the kettle black eh?
    impressive...a 10 year old report that doesn't address my statements towards YOU and YOU specifically.

    hey look, over there, something else!!!

    this is NOT an us versus THEM that i am presenting.
    while a dramatic and potentially more supportive argument for you, that is not the case. i am not part of an US and i haven't been exposed to the THEM for long enough to develop an opinion.

    this is ME versus YOU.
    my opinions towards YOU are based on your actions, your statements and your behaviour...sorry to disappoint but your attempt to insight a cycle-class war is weak.

    i do not like you.
    i do not like what you bring to the community (cycling in general not only the microcosm represented on MTBR).
    i do not like the way you represent cyclists.
    i do not like the way you martyr yourself for your failures.
    i do not like your approach to 'access'.
    i do not like your sense of entitlement.
    i do not like you holier than thou approach to debate (all the while needling responders with name calling and generalizations).

    i do not like YOU chris...this isn't about ANYONE else.

    there is NO association i hold to ANY of the stakeholders that you claim are repressing you...if you and your wishes are being repressed maybe you need to look around...look in the mirror and re-evaluate what it is YOU want. damn man, maybe YOU are wrong. maybe the way you are approaching things is WRONG.

    let's be clear about my affiliations too, you know my insular groups, i have loyalty to associations based on specific instances and issues...i am not a home-team zealot...i am not blinded or willing to overlook short comings because of an allegiance nor are my opinions based on any membership.

    i am a cyclist. i ride more than i drive. i make a living in cycling...not racing...not xc...no chris, i am not against your THEM, just YOU.
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  50. #50
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    What with the whizzing contest? This FR vs XC debate is getting old. there is enough trail for everybody to have fun however they see fit.
    it tied the room together man!

  51. #51
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    I could not, would not, in a house.
    I would not, could not, with a mouse.
    I would not eat them with a fox.
    I would not eat them in a box.
    I would not eat them here or there.
    I would not eat them anywhere.
    I would not eat green eggs and ham.
    I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

    you sound like that you know...
    really i don't give hoot of your personal dislikes, it actually shows you as a shallow person.
    it looks like your the one pontifying always, and gets arrogant when its when it does not go your way or is pointed out...

    what i mentioned is happening (it's not a class war). it's the reality of urbanization in the
    gta... which you don't want to admit and seems to make me the focus of your hate because i bring it up.

    you can go back to sticking your head into the sand nimby...




    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    impressive...a 10 year old report that doesn't address my statements towards YOU and YOU specifically.

    hey look, over there, something else!!!

    this is NOT an us versus THEM that i am presenting.
    while a dramatic and potentially more supportive argument for you, that is not the case. i am not part of an US and i haven't been exposed to the THEM for long enough to develop an opinion.

    this is ME versus YOU.
    my opinions towards YOU are based on your actions, your statements and your behaviour...sorry to disappoint but your attempt to insight a cycle-class war is weak.

    i do not like you.
    i do not like what you bring to the community (cycling in general not only the microcosm represented on MTBR).
    i do not like the way you represent cyclists.
    i do not like the way you martyr yourself for your failures.
    i do not like your approach to 'access'.
    i do not like your sense of entitlement.
    i do not like you holier than thou approach to debate (all the while needling responders with name calling and generalizations).

    i do not like YOU chris...this isn't about ANYONE else.

    there is NO association i hold to ANY of the stakeholders that you claim are repressing you...if you and your wishes are being repressed maybe you need to look around...look in the mirror and re-evaluate what it is YOU want. damn man, maybe YOU are wrong. maybe the way you are approaching things is WRONG.

    let's be clear about my affiliations too, you know my insular groups, i have loyalty to associations based on specific instances and issues...i am not a home-team zealot...i am not blinded or willing to overlook short comings because of an allegiance nor are my opinions based on any membership.

    i am a cyclist. i ride more than i drive. i make a living in cycling...not racing...not xc...no chris, i am not against your THEM, just YOU.
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by canadian-clydesdale
    What with the whizzing contest? This FR vs XC debate is getting old. there is enough trail for everybody to have fun however they see fit.
    As the thread starter, I will nominate this as the best post in the thread so far. To avoid rehashing in painstaking detail what's already been said, it shuold suffice to say that it's unfortunate that the words and/or actions of some people don't follow this sentiment.

  53. #53
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    Thanks for the recap. I, for one, have completely lost track of any semblance of a topic in this thread. Although I think nimby is the new kettle or possibly pot.
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    I could not, would not, in a house.
    I would not, could not, with a mouse.
    I would not eat them with a fox.
    I would not eat them in a box.
    I would not eat them here or there.
    I would not eat them anywhere.
    I would not eat green eggs and ham.
    I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

    you sound like that you know...
    really i don't give hoot of your personal dislikes, it actually shows you as a shallow person.
    it looks like your the one pontifying always, and gets arrogant when its when it does not go your way or is pointed out...

    what i mentioned is happening (it's not a class war). it's the reality of urbanization in the
    gta... which you don't want to admit and seems to make me the focus of your hate because i bring it up.

    you can go back to sticking your head into the sand nimby...
    you like that style better?
    clue to effective communication - speak to your audience.

    and i cannot lie, i am having difficulty unmaking nonsense of the remainder of your statement.

    shallow? the dislike i've developed for you runs deeper with every statement you gurgle. i took the time to detail some of the specific reasons for these feelings so as to (hopefully) demonstrate to you that i am not jumping to this decision based on something as simple as your bike or riding style.

    arrogant? i suppose, but i don't think this is a personality trait that utilizes a switch...it does not turn on or off based on the perceived validity of my statements.
    my experience suggests that those who feel the most offended are the personalities used to bullying their way through a discussion with little or no resistance.
    frankly, i don't think you are used to meeting a person that doesn't either toss your opinions to the side and discount you entirely (much to your chagrin, i don't, i consider and respond specifically - you find this infuriating don't you?) or a person that isn't entirely overwhelmed by your diversionary tactics and fear mongering.

    urbanization of the gta...der...who's debating this? where?
    a focus of my hate?
    a refusal to admit?
    wha?

    on those rare times you are able to complete an entire thought your message is usually grounded in fact and intelligible. i have said this before. call it flip flopping or whatever else you can find in your "hot topix guide to social deviation". it's true.

    sadly your decision to take on the roll of pseudo intellectual and hipster come activist don't further the causes you claim to represent...you need to hook up with a proper group and contribute to the cause, you are over your head as spokesman and delegate.

    i make calls here and there i do this and that, nothing of consequence, nothing so grand and glamorous as the work you read about, but, if i've heard it once i've heard it too often;
    "hey you should get together with chris, you know chris, he wants to do something similar"
    best i can do is let out a muffled fffffffmmmmmuck and move on.

    seriously chris. get a grip. get some focus.
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  55. #55
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    nimby, hater... and and a hypocrite also... lol your quite long winded, i pity the teachers
    who had to read your essays
    hipster? who's shilling what here?

    one thing i've learned about people is to be careful of your assumptions and never listen to gossip... i suggest you follow this and stop your pontification ad nauseam...
    nogears>




    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    you like that style better?
    clue to effective communication - speak to your audience.

    and i cannot lie, i am having difficulty unmaking nonsense of the remainder of your statement.

    shallow? the dislike i've developed for you runs deeper with every statement you gurgle. i took the time to detail some of the specific reasons for these feelings so as to (hopefully) demonstrate to you that i am not jumping to this decision based on something as simple as your bike or riding style.

    arrogant? i suppose, but i don't think this is a personality trait that utilizes a switch...it does not turn on or off based on the perceived validity of my statements.
    my experience suggests that those who feel the most offended are the personalities used to bullying their way through a discussion with little or no resistance.
    frankly, i don't think you are used to meeting a person that doesn't either toss your opinions to the side and discount you entirely (much to your chagrin, i don't, i consider and respond specifically - you find this infuriating don't you?) or a person that isn't entirely overwhelmed by your diversionary tactics and fear mongering.

    urbanization of the gta...der...who's debating this? where?
    a focus of my hate?
    a refusal to admit?
    wha?

    on those rare times you are able to complete an entire thought your message is usually grounded in fact and intelligible. i have said this before. call it flip flopping or whatever else you can find in your "hot topix guide to social deviation". it's true.

    sadly your decision to take on the roll of pseudo intellectual and hipster come activist don't further the causes you claim to represent...you need to hook up with a proper group and contribute to the cause, you are over your head as spokesman and delegate.

    i make calls here and there i do this and that, nothing of consequence, nothing so grand and glamorous as the work you read about, but, if i've heard it once i've heard it too often;
    "hey you should get together with chris, you know chris, he wants to do something similar"
    best i can do is let out a muffled fffffffmmmmmuck and move on.

    seriously chris. get a grip. get some focus.
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  56. #56
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    huh , topic? what topic?

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    Thanks for the recap. I, for one, have completely lost track of any semblance of a topic in this thread. Although I think nimby is the new kettle or possibly pot.
    a nimby calling the kettle black
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    nimby, hater... and and a hypocrite also... lol your quite long winded, i pity the teachers
    who had to read your essays
    hipster? who's shilling what here?

    one thing i've learned about people is to be careful of your assumptions and never listen to gossip... i suggest you follow this and stop your pontification ad nauseam...
    nogears>
    am i a nimby AND a hater or do i just hate nimby(s)?
    if i am a nimby AND a hater wouldn't i hate nimby's?

    either way, is it possible to hate haters without being a hypocrite?

    judging by the furious influx of cartoon caricatures in place of your ordinary cut and paste dialogue i take it you are done trying to piece together any semblance of a valid point?

    allow me to respond for you;
    i know you are but what am i?
    nimby nimby nimby...bwwwaaaackk who's a nimby...bwwwaaaackk nimby nimby...
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  59. #59
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    wait your band is here


    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jpb0XB-gT_U&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jpb0XB-gT_U&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>








    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    am i a nimby AND a hater or do i just hate nimby(s)?
    if i am a nimby AND a hater wouldn't i hate nimby's?

    either way, is it possible to hate haters without being a hypocrite?

    judging by the furious influx of cartoon caricatures in place of your ordinary cut and paste dialogue i take it you are done trying to piece together any semblance of a valid point?

    allow me to respond for you;
    i know you are but what am i?
    nimby nimby nimby...bwwwaaaackk who's a nimby...bwwwaaaackk nimby nimby...
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    wait your band is here


    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jpb0XB-gT_U&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jpb0XB-gT_U&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
    hey fat mike!
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailtrash
    huh , topic? what topic?

    This thread is now the Dinglesprocket and No Speed's love in.

  62. #62
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    the dingle is a trail you know

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  63. #63
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    Land?

    Gearless almost had me interested in what he was saying, but then he went into some silly hate thing, as if anyone would really care who he likes or does not. Did someone ask him or did he just assume we wanted to know and what does that have to do with MTBing?

    Does the land manager/owner like the new jump SS ?
    Is there any way that access to this area could be closed to MTBing because of stunt building?
    You are a smart guy SS, not just a smart a$$, I would think you are doing good not harm.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    hey fat mike!
    THIS is the best Gimme Gimmes cover:

    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xeSq9gzP18o&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xeSq9gzP18o&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  65. #65
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    nice vid but i still don't like snow

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    Gearless almost had me interested in what he was saying, but then he went into some silly hate thing, as if anyone would really care who he likes or does not. Did someone ask him or did he just assume we wanted to know and what does that have to do with MTBing?
    sorry phart, i agree, hate is just hateful and i hate it to death but i found it regrettably relevant to several of the discussions taking place right now.

    it's become a sad trend that when a person questions, disagrees or offers a dissenting opinion to those presented, intelligent debate is nullified by accusations and assumptions of a cycle class war.

    the whole thing is very monty python if you ask me.
    he doesn't like my idea...HE HATES ALL DOWNHILLERS, GET HIM!

    no i won't tell you if i have permission to build features...he doesn't appreciate my efforts...NIMBY, NIMBY, NIMBY!!!

    ironically sprocket his-self faced this from time to time early on (he likes jumps oh he OBVIOUSLY hates xc riders) now he seems hell bent on repeating this err.

    i had been making the point, repeatedly, ad nauseum and as CLEARLY AS POSSIBLE, when i disagree (sometimes even agree) with sprockey (anyone - yourbadself included) it's because of THE specific POINT, it's CONTEXT or the manner in which it is PRESENTED...my opinions, be they valid or otherwise, are NOT to be taken out of direct context and butchered into some fabricated for effect hateful repression of entire riding genres...ANY dislike i feel is not EVER directed at a bike or other riders...

    rather extreme and ugly way of making a point...when i am speaking and responding it is a PERSONAL interaction...it is me speaking to you...i realize this is terribly undramatic but sprocketteer is just going to have to get used to that.
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    I for an i

    Gearless, well put, still arrogant, but you be you I be me.

    SS you are into meetings, IMBA, stuff like that. You have smart thoughts.
    I have a dirt jump builder making waves in my neighborhood.
    I would really like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

    Does the land manager/owner like the new jump SS ?
    Is there any way that access to this area could be closed to MTBing because of stunt building?

  68. #68
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    to answer you phat, since they dirt bike there, no problem since we pick up the trash. nope no impact... they are more pissed at the quads


    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    Gearless almost had me interested in what he was saying, but then he went into some silly hate thing, as if anyone would really care who he likes or does not. Did someone ask him or did he just assume we wanted to know and what does that have to do with MTBing?

    Does the land manager/owner like the new jump SS ?
    Is there any way that access to this area could be closed to MTBing because of stunt building?
    You are a smart guy SS, not just a smart a$$, I would think you are doing good not harm.
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  69. #69
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    take laxative you seem rather tightly wound... on the plus note i have access to an excavator now... time to build some huge features

    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    sorry phart, i agree, hate is just hateful and i hate it to death but i found it regrettably relevant to several of the discussions taking place right now.

    (snip)

    rather extreme and ugly way of making a point...when i am speaking and responding it is a PERSONAL interaction...it is mspeaking to you...i realize this is terribly undramatic but sprocketteer is just going to have to get used to thate .
    let's see... let see you find hate hateful, yet you must hate... your losing all credibility
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  70. #70
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    Why the hell is this thread even in existence?

    Unreal.

  71. #71
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    Thanks

    Good to hear SS.
    I really did not think you would put MTBers into a negative category.
    Please keep doing you picture posts, I love them.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    to answer you phat, since they dirt bike there, no problem since we pick up the trash. nope no impact... they are more pissed at the quads
    Not to put too fine a point on this but when you say that they are "more" pissed at the quads, are you saying that they're still pissed at the MTB riders (and builders) but have bigger fish to fry?

    I gathered from Phat's question that he was asking if you had the landowner/manager's permission to build the stunt but I'm still not hearing a resounding YES here.
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  73. #73
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    actually phat got it. think about it, they like bikes there...
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    actually phat got it. think about it, they like bikes there...
    Um, can I please get a straight yes/no answer to these questions?
    - Does the land manager know about these stunts?
    - Has approval for them been explicitly given?

    If the answer to the above two is "yes", then why not share their actual location?

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl
    Um, can I please get a straight yes/no answer to these questions?
    - Does the land manager know about these stunts?
    - Has approval for them been explicitly given?

    If the answer to the above two is "yes", then why not share their actual location?
    had it ever crossed your mind that it might be private property? so quick to judge and blame.
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  76. #76
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    Whether the land is public or private has little to do with the answers to the questions.

    In light of our discussion of the word "evasive" a couple of.weeks ago, these last few posts just drip with irony!
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    had it ever crossed your mind that it might be private property? so quick to judge and blame.
    On the contrary; I'm still waiting for straight answers to these questions.

    Unless you're implying you're trespassing?

  78. #78
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    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl
    On the contrary; I'm still waiting for straight answers to these questions.

    Unless you're implying you're trespassing?
    ummm your the one using the word trespassing in your post. perhaps i'm a witch also

    i've asked alot of questions like "what is albion hills trail plan?" for example, that i never received an answer for...

    perhaps you should be saying that i'm following the protocol that has been set?

    otherwise you are just spreading gossip
    Last edited by singlesprocket; 08-04-2010 at 06:05 PM.
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    This thread is exactly why I spend more time riding alone.

  81. #81
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    Some of the biggest bullying in mountain biking is in regards to trail building and mainteneance.

  82. #82
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    hahahaha....

    ON topic, theres a whole store full of bike bullies near my house, d'ornellas---roadie elitists(sp..)--- bought a bike there years ago, everytime i brought it in under warrenty they critisized me for not repiaring the bike myself, and told me i wasn't riding properly if i was doing minor damage to the bike....

    i have never gone back since...
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    I seriously thought he was going to rape me"

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1lluaA

    ON topic, theres a whole store full of bike bullies near my house, d'ornellas---roadie elitists(sp..)--- bought a bike there years ago, everytime i brought it in under warrenty they critisized me for not repiaring the bike myself, and told me i wasn't riding properly if i was doing minor damage to the bike....
    Ah, yes I know of them. Dealt with them when I lived in Scarberia after moving Nov 2002.

    Only shop I knew of- back then I was more Du and running oriented. The end was when they told me I had to replace my rear hub because it was hub shell was cracked. Gave themn the go ahead and 2 months later get a call- " You want this rear wheel rebuilt?" call.

    Took them 2 more months to do anything. After I picked up the wheel and the old hub. Looked at the hub carefully even had another shop check it out. No cracks to be found.

    Bunch of plonkers.

  84. #84
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    ya, the last time i went there, and the very last time for my life, i needed to get my old spd pedals taken off, and replaced with my new eggs... i couldnt get the old ones off cause i didnt have a pedal wrench and my 15mm box end is like 4 inches long, so 0 leverage...

    the mech. acctually started to make fun of me for not changing my own pedals, even though i paid for the service...bunch of *******s if you ask me, i dont recommend going near the place unless you have a carbon fibre tube shoved up your ass...
    2008 Kona Caldera

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    I seriously thought he was going to rape me"

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    ummm your the one using the word trespassing in your post. perhaps i'm a witch also

    i've asked alot of questions like "what is albion hills trail plan?" for example, that i never received an answer for...

    perhaps you should be saying that i'm following the protocol that has been set?

    otherwise you are just spreading gossip
    See, this is why you can't be taken seriously.

    I can interpret this response in two ways.

    1. You DO have explicit permission from the landowner to build stunts, but you are refusing to answer my question clearly either because you're a d!ck or you have no reading comprehension.

    2. You do NOT have permission and have been caught out. Thus the evasion and misdirection.

    Also, what's with the witch comment? Cripes.

    Finally, if you're abbreviating "you are," it's "you're" NOT "your". The latter is the possessive (which you used correctly). I'll ignore the numerous other grammatical errors in your post.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdgirl
    See, this is why you can't be taken seriously.

    I can interpret this response in two ways.

    1. You DO have explicit permission from the landowner to build stunts, but you are refusing to answer my question clearly either because you're a d!ck or you have no reading comprehension.

    2. You do NOT have permission and have been caught out. Thus the evasion and misdirection.

    Also, what's with the witch comment? Cripes.

    Finally, if you're abbreviating "you are," it's "you're" NOT "your". The latter is the possessive (which you used correctly). I'll ignore the numerous other grammatical errors in your post.

    Why so serious?

  87. #87
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    Hmm, we'd always done well at D'Ornella's but we've only ever been there for carbon roadie stuff.

    The old Cycle Logic on Mt. Pleasant was intimidating as a n00b. If you weren't on a Mantis with thumb shifters, they didn't seem to want to give you the time of day.
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1lluaA
    ... i dont recommend going near the place unless you have a carbon fibre tube shoved up your ass...
    What's the address again?

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanstrive
    What's the address again?
    *coffee snort!*
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    ummm your the one using the word trespassing in your post. perhaps i'm a witch also

    i've asked alot of questions like "what is albion hills trail plan?" for example, that i never received an answer for...

    perhaps you should be saying that i'm following the protocol that has been set?

    otherwise you are just spreading gossip
    Singlesprocket, I'm not sure if you checked the Albion Hills Trail Improvement thread after you asked the question about a trail plan, but I did in fact answer you. See my answer in bold below.

    "06-29-2010
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    Congrats to everyone who raced on the weekend. I'm glad it didn't rain more than it did, and everyone (mostly) survived, including the trails. I wasn't able to come out and spectate, but I'd like to come out next year. Maybe I should race next year....

    Just to clear a few things up, a full trail plan was not completed for the latest trail improvements. The window for obtaining the federal funding money and implementation was very short, so we used the money to address some well-known and obvious issues on the trails - at the advice of Chico Racing and our on-site parks staff. We fixed areas on both single and doubletrack (which riders have to use to connect sections of singletrack), to make a better experience for both our mountain bikers, cross-country skiers, and other users.

    Albion Hills is next on the list for a Master Plan to be completed of our properties in Peel, so you will all have an opportunity to bring your comments, concerns, and expertise into that process. During the Master Plan process a full Trail Plan will be completed.


    Thank you for the comments about the trail improvements. I'm glad to see everyone thanking Sean for the great work he and his team did on the singletrack.
    We recognize that there may be a need for more capping material on that section of doubletrack near Cedar Grove - stay tuned for further updates on that. It didn't have a whole lot of time to set, before the race and the rain we got. And we'll have to see what we can do about that terrible smell at the new re-route at the beginning of Woo Wu.

    Cheers,
    the real TRCA
    "

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    ummm your the one using the word trespassing in your post. perhaps i'm a witch also

    i've asked alot of questions like "what is albion hills trail plan?" for example, that i never received an answer for...

    perhaps you should be saying that i'm following the protocol that has been set?

    otherwise you are just spreading gossip
    so mysterious...wow...i see a PG documentary in the works.

    sprocket, try setting an example for YOURSELF and not repeatedly justifying your inadequacies as they relate to your perception of the world.

    get a back bone you whimpering little towel.
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  92. #92
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    thanks for the info, this question was also asked over a year ago.

    so in other words there has been no trail plan (just a temp one recently)... and the master one is being worked on for properties in peel (main address?). doe that include palgrave forest also?
    was the public/other stakeholders even notified for input into the ad hoc trail plan for funding? if other stakeholders weren't included, what is the reason to exclude them? as you can see this creates issues for all users/stakeholders and confusion with RES.#A119/09.

    perhaps you can also provide information in regards to where the public can have input into the creation of the master trail plan and who is doing it?

    and lastly can you provide a link with more details of the temp trail plan, work done, who did it, funding spent etc... it would be helpful to the other stakeholders, consultants, contractors, etc in regards to their input into the master plan being developed.




    Quote Originally Posted by TRCA
    Singlesprocket, I'm not sure if you checked the Albion Hills Trail Improvement thread after you asked the question about a trail plan, but I did in fact answer you. See my answer in bold below.

    "06-29-2010
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    Congrats to everyone who raced on the weekend. I'm glad it didn't rain more than it did, and everyone (mostly) survived, including the trails. I wasn't able to come out and spectate, but I'd like to come out next year. Maybe I should race next year....

    Just to clear a few things up, a full trail plan was not completed for the latest trail improvements. The window for obtaining the federal funding money and implementation was very short, so we used the money to address some well-known and obvious issues on the trails - at the advice of Chico Racing and our on-site parks staff. We fixed areas on both single and doubletrack (which riders have to use to connect sections of singletrack), to make a better experience for both our mountain bikers, cross-country skiers, and other users.

    Albion Hills is next on the list for a Master Plan to be completed of our properties in Peel, so you will all have an opportunity to bring your comments, concerns, and expertise into that process. During the Master Plan process a full Trail Plan will be completed.


    Thank you for the comments about the trail improvements. I'm glad to see everyone thanking Sean for the great work he and his team did on the singletrack.
    We recognize that there may be a need for more capping material on that section of doubletrack near Cedar Grove - stay tuned for further updates on that. It didn't have a whole lot of time to set, before the race and the rain we got. And we'll have to see what we can do about that terrible smell at the new re-route at the beginning of Woo Wu.

    Cheers,
    the real TRCA
    "
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    build trail!

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    Careful nogears, someone might tell on you.

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    Input ???

    Great addition to the thoughts put fourth in this thread Coach.

  95. #95
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    wow aren't you a bundle of sunshine...

    Quote Originally Posted by nogearshere
    so mysterious...wow...i see a PG documentary in the works.

    sprocket, try setting an example for YOURSELF and not repeatedly justifying your inadequacies as they relate to your perception of the world.

    get a back bone you whimpering little towel.
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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlesprocket
    thanks for the info, this question was also asked over a year ago.

    so in other words there has been no trail plan (just a temp one recently)... and the master one is being worked on for properties in peel (main address?). doe that include palgrave forest also?
    was the public/other stakeholders even notified for input into the ad hoc trail plan for funding? if other stakeholders weren't included, what is the reason to exclude them? as you can see this creates issues for all users/stakeholders and confusion with RES.#A119/09.

    perhaps you can also provide information in regards to where the public can have input into the creation of the master trail plan and who is doing it?

    and lastly can you provide a link with more details of the temp trail plan, work done, who did it, funding spent etc... it would be helpful to the other stakeholders, consultants, contractors, etc in regards to their input into the master plan being developed.
    Singlesprocket,
    There was no TRCA presence here until June 2010, so we couldn't have answered any questions posed before then.

    Yes, you are reading correctly. There was NO trail plan, formal or temporary, created for this Improvement project. We are not changing the overall trail system yet, just enhancing specific areas. Since a trail plan was not created, there was no opportunity for stakeholder input. We consulted with on-site parks, and Chico Racing staff to decide what improvements were of highest priority to complete with the grant money. We have a much bigger list of improvements we would like to make, but they will have to wait until the Master Plan.

    A Request for Quotation (for the singletrack improvements) was sent out to a minimum of three contractors (as per TRCA purchasing policy), and the contract was awarded to Holmes Landscaping and Grading, who worked closely with Chico Racing staff. A separate Request for Quotation was sent out for the doubletrack improvements and was awarded to Rayburn Construction Ltd.

    The other properties in Peel that I am referring to are:
    -Heart Lake CA - Master Plan completed in 2006
    -Palgrave Forest and Wildlife Area - Trail plan completed 2008
    Both of these projects had a complete process for public consultation, including public meetings, and the formation of Advisory Committees and Stewardship Committees.
    -Bolton RMT - Currently we are working on a full Management Plan for the Bolton Resource Management Tract. There have been public meetings for this plan, advertised in both the local paper and on our website.
    Have you contributed to these plans? There was ample opportunity for the public to become involved. Would TRCA staff recognize you from public meetings and stewardship committee meetings?

    Now that TRCA has a presence on MTBR, this will be one of the avenues we use to advertise the Albion Hills CA Master Plan process - when it starts.

    Thanks,
    TRCA

  97. #97
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    Thanks again TRCA for the well-informed response. All I'll add is that there was a member active on the board about a year ago (can't remember the screen name) who claimed to work either at Albion or the TRCA (can't remember which) and the questions SS is talking about where directed in that direction.

    As a frequent user of many TRCA properties (as are many fo the board members), I really apppreciate you taking the time to keep us properly informed and up to date!
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  98. #98
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    thanks for the info again, it's great to get all of this information and it will be passed on to
    other stakeholders. actually there was a poster claiming to be a representive of the trca in 2009. by the way i have attended meetings with regards to several of those plans and provided input. it has always been a problem finding when those meetings occour. since you are posting here i suggest you post on other forums as well since this forum is one off many that riders read (actually it's a small one). as well as posting on here the date/time/locations of meeting so that members of the local community who want to show stewardship can attend. the bolton tract is of great interest since it provides a need for people in bolton. the rapid rate of development in town has left people with limited outdoor recreation facilities. i feel this is ideal opprotunity to fulfill the living green vision of the city and involve the community in the past who have felt excluded (no voice) as well as to involve other people who might not consider themselves stakeholders in the past.



    [/U]
    Quote Originally Posted by TRCA
    Singlesprocket,
    There was no TRCA presence here until June 2010, so we couldn't have answered any questions posed before then.

    Yes, you are reading correctly. There was NO trail plan, formal or temporary, created for this Improvement project. We are not changing the overall trail system yet, just enhancing specific areas. Since a trail plan was not created, there was no opportunity for stakeholder input. We consulted with on-site parks, and Chico Racing staff to decide what improvements were of highest priority to complete with the grant money. We have a much bigger list of improvements we would like to make, but they will have to wait until the Master Plan.

    A Request for Quotation (for the singletrack improvements) was sent out to a minimum of three contractors (as per TRCA purchasing policy), and the contract was awarded to Holmes Landscaping and Grading, who worked closely with Chico Racing staff. A separate Request for Quotation was sent out for the doubletrack improvements and was awarded to Rayburn Construction Ltd.

    The other properties in Peel that I am referring to are:
    -Heart Lake CA - Master Plan completed in 2006
    -Palgrave Forest and Wildlife Area - Trail plan completed 2008
    Both of these projects had a complete process for public consultation, including public meetings, and the formation of Advisory Committees and Stewardship Committees.
    -Bolton RMT - Currently we are working on a full Management Plan for the Bolton Resource Management Tract. There have been public meetings for this plan, advertised in both the local paper and on our website.
    Have you contributed to these plans? There was ample opportunity for the public to become involved. Would TRCA staff recognize you from public meetings and stewardship committee meetings?

    Now that TRCA has a presence on MTBR, this will be one of the avenues we use to advertise the Albion Hills CA Master Plan process - when it starts.

    Thanks,
    TRCA
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    build trail!

  99. #99
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    Thanks for YOUR input Phat...

    Are you some sort of self appointed Thread Police now?

    You had a few great posts recently, just to go back to your regular self with these comments... That is too bad...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    Great addition to the thoughts put fourth in this thread Coach.

  100. #100
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    Yes, like GM said - thanks for sticking around and working with us...
    We DO appreciate the fact that you are listening to us and soliciting input, as well as providing relevant and factual info back to the base...
    Thank you and please keep posting...

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    Know

    Not a cop Oggy, just do not see the need for people to gang-up on one person with no reason other then they can.
    And I think you know who got you into the pently box ... you da man.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo
    Are you some sort of self appointed Thread Police now?

    You had a few great posts recently, just to go back to your regular self with these comments... That is too bad...
    No surprise. He is the biggest bully in the Eastern forum after all.

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    Band

    I have never been band from this site, I have put some of my ideas out there for people to think about. If it troubles you dear endura, well so what, I don't care about cry babies like you who say they are hateful.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRCA
    Holmes Landscaping and Grading, who worked closely with Chico Racing staff.
    Great to hear Scott involved. Used to duke it out with him racing XC back in the day. Always an added bonus when active riders involved in the trail work.

  105. #105
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    Phat, people are not ganging up on one person... More accurate description is that one person is abusing the people... You may put me in the US vs THEM either team - however, as noggs pointed out - it is not US vs THEM... It has never been... It is just about cycling in general...

    All that is needed here is that everyone speaks on THEIR OWN BEHALF... No more no less... No one is representing anyone else... Noggs speaks in his own name. Me as well. I was not representing some ambiguous stakeholders or stewardship committees or user groups... No one should claim to represent them etc...

    When someone does something that is against law or accepted practices that paints the whole group in really bad paint, yet preaching that he does it for the GOOD of his specific group and pays out of his own pocket - that is wrong and may contribute to the loss of the given area for the whole group... not just his specific group, but the whole group that rides bicycles in that given area... Some influential hiker or bird watcher does not see this person as a member of his specific cycling group - he or she sees him as a BIKER and the whole community of bikers is painted in the same (BAD in their eyes) way... And this is just the tip of the iceberg, no need to go further... few posts describe it way better than I am ever going to be able to do with my immigrant English..

    By the way, I am getting my full susser in a week or so... I asked you a while ago, but you ignored me... Would you be so kind to show me around the Copeland Forest on one of the weekends in September?

    You are showing signs of a good but misunderstood person and instead of trying to divide this forum into US vs THEM childish battle, why not stick together and help each other in a most responsible way we can... I'll bring beer and wear baggies. What do you say?

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat Tyred
    I have never been band from this site, I have put some of my ideas out there for people to think about. If it troubles you dear endura, well so what, I don't care about cry babies like you who say they are hateful.

    Just so we are clear, you where the one who sent me hate filled PM's. Not counting the previous behaviour you exhibited a year a go. You where the one who swore and name called others in the past.

    I still have those PM's on file as well. And you definitely tried to bully those who don't follow your views. The only reason you changed your methods this year is because people stood up to you.

    But feel free to continue with your dogma and born again behaviour.

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirk
    Great to hear Scott involved. Used to duke it out with him racing XC back in the day. Always an added bonus when active riders involved in the trail work.
    Scott pilots a mean mini-ex. I once saw him lay a perfect stone bridge on his first attempt! No shoring or shimming needed.

    In the winter, he's also a masterful groomer at Highlands.
    Please enjoy seeing this terrible collection of me - something wonderful is about to happy.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by HSCoach2
    Careful nogears, someone might tell on you.
    High on Life

  109. #109
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    Loser

    "I still have those PM's on file as well."

  110. #110
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil
    I still have those PM's on file as well.
    I might still have at least one of those kicking around my InBox also. Maybe already deleted to make space for more incoming, maybe not? Doesn't really matter. Time to look forward, while still keeping one eye on the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil
    But feel free to continue with your dogma and born again behaviour.
    Didn't appreciate the over-the-topness of "old" Phat so much. Kind of hung himself out to dry with his presentation which made it almost impossible to look past to the content, which wasn't so "out there" as to deserve complete dismissal.

    I may choose to agree or disagree as I see fit with any of Phat's current posts, and I'm sure the same is true in reverse, but I can live with that. Wouldn't be much of a discussion board otherwise.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanstrive
    What's the address again?
    haha its at warden and lawrence if you want to go be made to feel like an idiot...
    2008 Kona Caldera

    "Today I saw my own son use a bicycle as a weapon....
    I seriously thought he was going to rape me"

  112. #112
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    Bump

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