Bronte Creek...WTF??!?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Warp speed, Mr. Sulu!
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    Upset Bronte Creek...WTF??!?

    So I decided to walk the Bronte Creek trails north of Dundas on the weekend to see what kind of shape they're in, and I discovered that someone with a lot of time on their hands and some seriously malicious intent has gone in there and destroyed everything.

    Not just a case of cutting up the wooden structures that have been built in there, but cutting live trees and bending them over the trail, dragging barbed wire and rusty fencing across the trail, breaking glass where a jump used to be, and dragging all kinds of deadfall onto the trail.

    It's in such a bad state that it's barely hikeable, let alone rideable.

    Anybody know what the heck happened in there or why?

  2. #2
    namagomi
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    Uhhh, nope.

    I've never been, but call the city and police before somebody gets hurt - those are basically booby traps with intent to harm. The case in the Don was taken seriously by police.

    I'm sure it's all repairable.

  3. #3
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    whoa thats brutal. Definitely get the city/cops involved. Those were some fun trails.
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  4. #4
    Warp speed, Mr. Sulu!
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    Yeah, no kidding.

    A report has been filed with the city of Burlington and Halton Regional Police. I have no idea how long ago this happened as this was the first time I'd been there since last fall. I was hoping someone here might know when it actually happened so we could include that info in the report.

    Thanks for the input, guys.

  5. #5
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    I rode through there in January. There was allot of snow at the time but none of that was present. Really stupid of someone to do that.
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  6. #6
    rwmtb
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    Yeah whoever did this to the trail had a lot of time on their hands. The damage goes on for nearly 2 km's I would guess. Really unfortunate after all the volunteer hours put into the trail to get it to the state that it was in.

    For the police report, my friend and I rode the trail on March 20 and the trail was fine (if a little muddy).

    We did clear some of the worst of the damage, but there still a lot of work to do unfortunately.

  7. #7
    Team NFI
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    Ah.. the Trail Nazis.

  8. #8
    sock puppet
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    must be some stakeholders...

  9. #9
    humber river advocate
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    the destruction fits an atypical psychological profile. there is no reasoning with this person, there is no solution that will work other then getting the police involved. it probally wouldn't hurt talk to other stakeholders (dogwalkers, hikers, etc) about the danger of the broken glass/barb wire. it is also useful to post warnings that the stakeholders can read in the area to be on the look out with contact #'s to the police case officer, park and conservation authorities. sometimes an act like this brings people together and promotes a greater level of stewardship in the area.
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  10. #10
    Warp speed, Mr. Sulu!
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    It was my girlfriend that went to the trouble of contacting the city of Burlington, Halton Regional Police, and then the government of Ontario...so far, all have responded with apathy, except for the Ont government which has yet to respond at all.

    Thanks to the guys who went in there to try and clean it up...I appreciate your efforts.

  11. #11
    humber river advocate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pucker Factor
    It was my girlfriend that went to the trouble of contacting the city of Burlington, Halton Regional Police, and then the government of Ontario...so far, all have responded with apathy, except for the Ont government which has yet to respond at all.

    Thanks to the guys who went in there to try and clean it up...I appreciate your efforts.
    I would still put up the contact notices, if more people complain you might get some response.
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  12. #12
    Evil Jr.
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    Are these sanctioned trails or the other kind?
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  13. #13
    Warp speed, Mr. Sulu!
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    Are these sanctioned trails or the other kind?
    I don't know the status of the trails in that regard. The land appears to belong to the province. Who built the trails and whether they were built with permission or not, I can't say.

    I only found out about them last year, but I'd heard that they were popular with dog walkers and mountain bikers as well. I have seen some young guys building newer stuff in there last year but I don't think they made the original trail.

  14. #14
    Evil Jr.
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    I only ask because I wonder if it may factor in the apathy you're seeing. I could see how in some sort of twisted way, if they officially "cared", they would be acknowledging existence of (and accepting liability for) the trails. These things can get really weird.
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  15. #15
    Warp speed, Mr. Sulu!
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    I wouldn't be surprised if you're right about that. On the south side of Dundas, the trail follows the creek into Bronte Creek Provincial Park. If it were on that end I'm fairly sure they'd be inclined to follow it up, but on the north side it seems to be a kind of no-man's land.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    I only ask because I wonder if it may factor in the apathy you're seeing. I could see how in some sort of twisted way, if they officially "cared", they would be acknowledging existence of (and accepting liability for) the trails. These things can get really weird.
    I think you may be right.

    I once contacted both the town of Oakville and the Provence about the trails at Nayagawa/407. They would only talk in generalities and I got the impression they don't want anything on the record. Officially they are not biking trails, but considered a general recreational area. When pressed what that meant, I was never able to get a straight answer. Both parties said it was ok to ride whatever is there "but don't go building stuff, or modifying existing trails.

    The CYA mentality is hardly surprising, when you consider the potential liabilities they would be opening themselves up to.
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  17. #17
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    Unfortunately thats what happens when people build stuff on property that does not belong to them or conduct activities not sanctioned by the property owner.

    Its sad but thats why we are losing land. No one wants the potential liability problems associated with allowing structures on the land.

    Now, if its just some ahole making a mess for fun, thats not cool.

  18. #18
    namagomi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satan2
    Unfortunately thats what happens when people build stuff on property that does not belong to them or conduct activities not sanctioned by the property owner.

    Its sad but thats why we are losing land. No one wants the potential liability problems associated with allowing structures on the land.

    Now, if its just some ahole making a mess for fun, thats not cool.
    I highly doubt what you're saying has any relevance. Take a look at the facts again, smashed beer bottles, barbed wire strung all around. It's nice of you to get on the soap-box about a stunt here and there, but this just seems the wrong spot and time to pontificate.

  19. #19
    Team NFI
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage monster
    I only ask because I wonder if it may factor in the apathy you're seeing. I could see how in some sort of twisted way, if they officially "cared", they would be acknowledging existence of (and accepting liability for) the trails. These things can get really weird.
    As Gen. Hillier has said. There comes a point where Risk Management becomes Risk Aversion. And Ontario crossed that threshold long ago.

  20. #20
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    heard thought the grape vine.

    Heard on the weekend that the TTF on the Bronte was being taken out by the kids that made most of them. Police are involved as are the parents. Hate to see this happen anywhere however if we don't ask before we build there is always the chance of our efforts being destroyed.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAMTBER
    Heard on the weekend that the TTF on the Bronte was being taken out by the kids that made most of them. Police are involved as are the parents. Hate to see this happen anywhere however if we don't ask before we build there is always the chance of our efforts being destroyed.
    Hmm.. maybe it's time for the parents to help out there kids. Follow the skateboarder example, form a group, and help their ids with this. Because the kids have shown they want it and the parents are involved now.

  22. #22
    Warp speed, Mr. Sulu!
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    If you saw the way the place looked when we were there, you would question the motives of whoever did it. If the parents and Police were supervising the dismantling of the stunts, you would never think they would take things to the point of cutting live trees and putting barbed wire and glass on the trail.

    I can see them taking down the constructed stunts and such if they were concerned about the safety of them, but ruining the trail outright for all who would use it just doesn't make any sense no matter how you view it.

  23. #23
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    Pucker Factor

    Resurrecting this one to see if anything else has been heard.

    I was back in the trails last night. I cannot see kids doing the destruction that has been. OMG some mighty large chain saws were needed to cut a few of the logs that have been removed. The place gets a fair amount of traffic dog walkers, hikers, families and riders so my thought is it was done quickly.

    GM the trails are not sanctioned but I know of a few of the trail builders unsure if they built any structures.

    To those who pulled the fencing and wire aside, thanks I moved a few more wind fall branches and small trees last night. It is all government land so perhaps the Gov is behind the removal of the stunts. But putting wire and glass? Maybe a coincidence ?

    Trails are still open as far as I can see no warning signs have been posted. It is a fun loop hope we can continue to use it.

  24. #24
    Lemmy Rules!
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    Given it is government land, you would think the provincial government would be doing something about this. Given that someone complained, the government faces worse liability for doing nothing than for cleaning up the trails.
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  25. #25
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    I was in there in April as well and very disappointed to see the condition of the trails. Almost every 20 feet a log had been dragged onto the trail to impede riding. Took me over an hour to clear it as far as the railway tracks... I walk my dog there too and was pretty pissed to see the glass and wire strung across the trail, that's just ignorant....

    I know that a rider suffered a spinal injury on that trail over a year ago, had to be airlifted to hospital. Perhaps this is all related to that incident. More than likely though, it's a vindictive type that has it in for mountain bikes...

  26. #26
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    sorry to bring back an old thread but any word on these trails?

  27. #27
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    I live in this area and ride at kelso all the time. I was sad to read what has happened here even before i got a chance to ride it.

    i have an idea tho, how about we pass around the idea and some dates for a joint clean up with board members? I would be glad to donate a days work on a weekend to help clean up, have some shovels, rakes, dirt and wheelbarrels we could use to help as well.

    Anyone in, and have dates in mind ?

  28. #28
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    I am not sure I see what you guys are talking about? I ride there the odd time and saw some logs on the trail, but just assumed those were new features to ride over

    I didn't see it as a big deal, maybe I wasn't riding in the area you were talking about though? Maybe a map would help?

  29. #29
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    Not a bad idea, can anyone do a quick googlemap printout of where the trail head is, that way we all know what we are talking about?

    I am down for cleaning it up as i live so close

  30. #30
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    I would be in for some trail maintenance since I ride it once a week and itís in my back yard.

  31. #31
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    What is the law in Ontario ? As far as I knew you can ride on any provincial or municipal property as long as your not using motorized vehicle ?

  32. #32
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    What's the word of this trail now. I went for a ride to check it out yesterday and didn't really see anything destructive until the loop after the train tracks. It looked like there were some white bark trees laying across the trail? Is this was your talking about? It makes me sick to think what it looked like when you found the trails in the state they were in. Thank you to all who helped clean them up. Seriously who would go to the effort of doing such a thing.

    If we can get a group of people together that would like to work on these trails, that would be great! Perhaps another thread should be made to organize??

  33. #33
    Loving Life
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    I now live in the area now and wouldn't mind if someone posted a map of the trailhead. I'm trying to figure out the best place to enter the trails as I'd like to do some riding in there in the winter

  34. #34
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    We moved into Alton Village which isn't far away from this trail, my understanding is the enterance is on the north side of Hwy 5 very close to the coin car wash? I'd love to be able to ride there rather than driving the car to other areas.

    Is this trail technical? I'm a newbie in mountain biking so too technical I'll end up walking

  35. #35
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    Now there is a sign at the driveway to enter the north section saying Private Property.

  36. #36
    rwmtb
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    Becoming part of Bronte Creek Provincial Park

    Apparently these lands are becoming part of the Bronte Creek Provincial Park. Good news I think, mountain biking is currently allowed in the park.

    If you Google "Establishment of Recommended Bronte Creek Provincial Park Addition (P4432a)" you will find the relevant supporting documents.

    From what I can tell, the intention is to leave these lands in a natural state as "these lands protect provincially significant life science features and are a critical link in connecting the park to the Niagara Escarpment."

  37. #37
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    It appears from the map attached to that document, that all the lands that currently have bike/hiking trails are included park extension. This will be an awesome addition...presuming bikes are allowed
    It's only pain......

  38. #38
    rwmtb
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    More out of curiosity than anything I contacted the MNR regarding whether hiking/cycling is an acceptable use on this property. According to the Trespass to Property Act a yellow sign indicates that some activities are permitted on the land. I'll update the thread if I hear back from them.

  39. #39
    rwmtb
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    New Bronte Creek Thread

    For anyone still subscribed to this thread, a new Bronte Creek thread has been started here: http://forums.mtbr.com/eastern-canad...me-842070.html

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