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  1. #1
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    State Rules regarding ebikes on Trails

    This is what the Maryland DNR has stated about ebikes. I'm wondering if other states follow similar rules. If so what is the official word? It would be great if we could compile a list below.

    The classification of electric bicycles as "bicycles" in the Transportation Article is certainly applicable to the use / operation of electric bicycles on highways and other areas used by the public for riding bicycles. Therefore, it would apply to the use / operation of electric bicycles on State Park roads.


    However, more directly applicable to the use / operation of electric bicycles on State Park trails (and any trails on Department lands) are the Off-Road Vehicle regulations found in COMAR 08.01.03. Those regulations prohibit the operation of off-road vehicles on any forest or park trails except as designated in that Chapter of COMAR.


    As per the definition of "off-road vehicle" found in COMAR 08.01.03.02B(9), an electric bicycle would be considered an off-road vehicle, as it is "a motorized vehicle designed for or capable of cross-country travel on land, water, snow, ice, marsh, swampland, or other natural terrain." In addition, the definition specifically includes "a motorcycle and related two-wheel vehicle."


    These ORV regulations form the basis for the existing regulatory prohibition / policy, posted on signs on hundreds of miles of park trails, indicating that "Motorized Vehicles Prohibited on Park Trails."
    Code of Maryland Regulations (COMAR) - Maryland Law Resources - LibGuides at University of Maryland Libraries

  2. #2
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    Other uses on state trails: Minnesota DNR

    Electric-assist or pedal-assist bicycles are allowed on state trails, or wherever normal bicycles are allowed, if they meet the following definition in Minnesota Statutes 169.011, Subdivision 27.
    • 2 our 3 wheels
    • A saddle and fully operable pedals for human propulsion
    • An electric motor that is:
    • 1,000 watts or less,
    • incapable of propelling faster than 20 miles per hour,
    • incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power alone is used to propel the vehicle at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour, and
    • disengages or ceases to function when the vehicles brakes are applied.
    • A motorized bicycle that does not meet the definition of an electric-assist bicycle is not allowed on state trails where motorized vehicles are prohibited.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    It's interesting that they made a distinction between motorized bicycles and pedal assisted bicycles. A few lines below they follow up with:

    Vehicles and Uses that are not allowed on state trails

    Golf carts
    Motorized bicycles
    Motorized foot scooters
    Motorized vehicles, such as all-terrain vehicles, off-highway motorcycles, or off-highway vehicles, except when specifically permitted, such as on the Matthew Lourey State Trail.
    Any vehicle that is larger than half of the width of the trail treadway, as all users of state trails must stay on the right half of the treadway when meeting or passing other trail users.
    I wonder how they plan to enforce the rules?

  4. #4
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    It's worth noting that state laws may not have anything to do with whether your e-bike is legal on a given trail. In UT, for example, they're treated as bicycles on roadways and state land - but 95% of our trails are on either federal land (no go) or land managed by local agencies who make their own rules (not ok here in Park City, for example, because the trails are managed by local authorities and groups who don't want e-bikes). State parks with trail systems open to bikes aren't a big thing here, but the few that do exist (AFAIK) allow e-bikes.

    It's a mess.

    -Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post

    I wonder how they plan to enforce the rules?
    The DNR is omnipresent in the woods, lakes, and trails of Minnesota. The officers don’t seem to be having any trouble with the concept. E-bikes have been legal since 2012. E-bikes are pretty much a non-issue AFAIK .......legal if they meet the criteria I posted.

    Federal presence is likewise a non-issue, certainly not around here. There’s only one National Park in the state, a couple of National Forests, but I don’t know if there’s any mountain biking there to speak of. I do occasionally run into forest rangers (or whatever they’re called) snowmobiling in Voyageur’s NP and the snowmobile trails running through the two National Forests in the state up north.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    It's worth noting that state laws may not have anything to do with whether your e-bike is legal on a given trail. In UT, for example, they're treated as bicycles on roadways and state land - but 95% of our trails are on either federal land (no go) or land managed by local agencies who make their own rules (not ok here in Park City, for example, because the trails are managed by local authorities and groups who don't want e-bikes). State parks with trail systems open to bikes aren't a big thing here, but the few that do exist (AFAIK) allow e-bikes.

    It's a mess.

    -Walt
    Someone who didn't know better who read your post would assume ebikes are banned on Federal land in Utah. This is not 100% the case, for example, Slickrock is BLM and ebikes are allowed. Others are open on a case by case basis, example: Trans La Sal is on NFS and ebikes are allowed. Lots of trails in the Abajos are ebike friendly as well. Kokopelli, Poison Spider, 2/3 of Porcupine Rim, Gemini Bridges, Gold Bar, Pritchett Canyon, Slickrock, Trans La Sal, Geyser Pass, Amasa Back, Hurrah Pass/Jackson's all are open to ebikes.

    The bottom line is that there are a lot of MTB "trails" in Utah that are open to motorized use, including ebikes, because all of the original MTB trails in Moab were actually old Jeep roads.

    Of course one glaring exception, and I'm going to bitch about this every time I get a chance, are the roads in Canyonlands, where you can drive your lifted Jeep or ride your modified enduro motorcycle, but you can't ride a Class 1 pedalec.

  7. #7
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    Erm, yes, I guess I should have been more specific. E-bikes are not allowed on *nonmotorized* trails on Federal land here in UT. There are lots of motorized trails all over, they're allowed on all of them (with that one bizarre exception you mention).

    -Walt

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    Colorado

    State DOT regulations allow Class 1-3 on roads, bike lanes and paved bike paths unless local jurisdictions opt out.

    http://leg.colorado.gov/sites/defaul...151_signed.pdf

    State Parks has a temporary policy of allowing Class 1 on bike legal singletrack, unless the park superintendant decides against it. They will review it again as more information becomes available and decide on a long term plan.

    http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Tra...II-E-bikes.pdf

    Currently, that's the only legal non motorized singletrack in the state that I know of. There's lots of motorized though that's available.

    https://cts.state.co.us/cotrex/desktop/

    JeffCo has looked into it, but I haven't seen any official policy either way from them. It's hit or miss as far as bike paths go, in some places all classes are legal, some places none, and like here, only Class 1 is allowed.

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    I just heard that P4B is working towards making it more clear their Class 1-3 legislation only applies to bike path type trails and they are pointing to their recently passed Michigan legislation as evidence.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...-HEBS-4781.pdf

    As its always been, landmanagers are always free to allow them where they see fit.

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    Indiana's E-Bike Code on State Managed land

    Indiana DNR E-Bike Code

    We asked the Indiana DNR what their policy was on e-bikes. They referred us to the following code

    312 IAC 8-1.5-22 "Vehicle" defined
    Authority: IC 14-10-2-4; IC 14-11-2-1
    Affected: IC 14
    Sec. 22. "Vehicle" means:
    (1) an automobile;
    (2) a motorcycle;
    (3) a truck;
    (4) a trailer;
    (5) a semitrailer;
    (6) a tractor;
    (7) a bus;
    (8) a school bus;
    (9) a recreational vehicle;
    (10) a trailer or semitrailer used in the transportation of a boat; or
    (11) a motorized bicycle.

    Key points.
    They do not break down motorized bikes into any other categories or classes.
    All motorized bikes (including pedal assist) are considered to be vehicles

    312 IAC 8-2-8 Vehicles, trails, boats, and aircraft
    Authority: IC 14-10-2-1; IC 14-10-2-4; IC 14-11-2-1; IC 14-19-1-1
    Affected: IC 14-19-1-0.5; IC 14-22-11-1
    Sec. 8. (a) A person must not operate a vehicle:
    (1) at a speed greater than:
    (A) thirty (30) miles per hour on straight, open stretches of road; or
    (B) fifteen (15) miles per hour on steep grades or curves or where posted; or
    (2) except as provided in section 17 of this rule, other than on a public road.

    This limits vehicles to public roads expect per section 17 which allows vehicles on trails at the State's two Recreation Vehicle Recreation Areas. Redbird and Interlake.

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    Harry, thanks for the information; nice they finally removed the ambiguity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indytrekracer View Post
    Indiana DNR E-Bike Code

    We asked the Indiana DNR what their policy was on e-bikes. They referred us to the following code

    312 IAC 8-1.5-22 "Vehicle" defined
    Authority: IC 14-10-2-4; IC 14-11-2-1
    Affected: IC 14
    Sec. 22. "Vehicle" means:
    (1) an automobile;
    (2) a motorcycle;
    (3) a truck;
    (4) a trailer;
    (5) a semitrailer;
    (6) a tractor;
    (7) a bus;
    (8) a school bus;
    (9) a recreational vehicle;
    (10) a trailer or semitrailer used in the transportation of a boat; or
    (11) a motorized bicycle.

    Key points.
    They do not break down motorized bikes into any other categories or classes.
    All motorized bikes (including pedal assist) are considered to be vehicles

    312 IAC 8-2-8 Vehicles, trails, boats, and aircraft
    Authority: IC 14-10-2-1; IC 14-10-2-4; IC 14-11-2-1; IC 14-19-1-1
    Affected: IC 14-19-1-0.5; IC 14-22-11-1
    Sec. 8. (a) A person must not operate a vehicle:
    (1) at a speed greater than:
    (A) thirty (30) miles per hour on straight, open stretches of road; or
    (B) fifteen (15) miles per hour on steep grades or curves or where posted; or
    (2) except as provided in section 17 of this rule, other than on a public road.

    This limits vehicles to public roads expect per section 17 which allows vehicles on trails at the State's two Recreation Vehicle Recreation Areas. Redbird and Interlake.
    I'm no expert (I don’t practice in Indiana) but my understanding of Indiana Vehicle Code is that "motorized bicycles" in Indiana are what one would commonly refer to as "mopeds" or "scooters."

    This makes sense, given that minors under the age of 15 are precluded from riding electric bicycles. See the link: https://law.justia.com/codes/indiana...e21/chapter11/

    See this as well: https://www.in.gov/bmv/2519.htm
    Last edited by AGarcia; 11-02-2017 at 04:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGarcia View Post
    I'm no expert (I don’t practice in Indiana) but my understanding of Indiana Vehicle Code is that "motorized bicycles" in Indiana are what one would commonly refer to as "mopeds" or "scooters."

    This makes sense, given that minors under the age of 15 are precluded from riding electric bicycles. See the link: https://law.justia.com/codes/indiana...e21/chapter11/

    See this as well: https://www.in.gov/bmv/2519.htm
    The Indiana Vehicle Code is not relevance to the lands managed by the IDNR. IDNR defines motorized bikes as vehicles on the lands they manage. You are welcome to contact the Indiana Department of Natural Resources for yourself.

    I have been told directly by IDNR leadership that any bike with a motor is classified on their properties as a vehicle and not allowed on trails open to mountain bikes.

    On a regular basis I am asked by bike shops and riders about the legality of riding a pedal assist bike on mountain bike trails located in Indiana State Parks and Forests. When I inform them of the IDNR's position, often times they proceed to argue with me. I am only the messenger. If you want to try to convince the IDNR that Indiana's Vehicle code supersedes their own legal definition of a vehicle, please have at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indytrekracer View Post
    Indiana DNR E-Bike Code

    We asked the Indiana DNR what their policy was on e-bikes. They referred us to the following code

    312 IAC 8-1.5-22 "Vehicle" defined
    Authority: IC 14-10-2-4; IC 14-11-2-1
    Affected: IC 14
    Sec. 22. "Vehicle" means:
    (1) an automobile;
    (2) a motorcycle;
    (3) a truck;
    (4) a trailer;
    (5) a semitrailer;
    (6) a tractor;
    (7) a bus;
    (8) a school bus;
    (9) a recreational vehicle;
    (10) a trailer or semitrailer used in the transportation of a boat; or
    (11) a motorized bicycle.

    Key points.
    They do not break down motorized bikes into any other categories or classes.
    All motorized bikes (including pedal assist) are considered to be vehicles

    312 IAC 8-2-8 Vehicles, trails, boats, and aircraft
    Authority: IC 14-10-2-1; IC 14-10-2-4; IC 14-11-2-1; IC 14-19-1-1
    Affected: IC 14-19-1-0.5; IC 14-22-11-1
    Sec. 8. (a) A person must not operate a vehicle:
    (1) at a speed greater than:
    (A) thirty (30) miles per hour on straight, open stretches of road; or
    (B) fifteen (15) miles per hour on steep grades or curves or where posted; or
    (2) except as provided in section 17 of this rule, other than on a public road.

    This limits vehicles to public roads expect per section 17 which allows vehicles on trails at the State's two Recreation Vehicle Recreation Areas. Redbird and Interlake.
    Of course City and county parks are diff Marion county my E bike is legal

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    Quote Originally Posted by indytrekracer View Post
    The Indiana Vehicle Code is not relevance to the lands managed by the IDNR. IDNR defines motorized bikes as vehicles on the lands they manage. You are welcome to contact the Indiana Department of Natural Resources for yourself.

    I have been told directly by IDNR leadership that any bike with a motor is classified on their properties as a vehicle and not allowed on trails open to mountain bikes.

    On a regular basis I am asked by bike shops and riders about the legality of riding a pedal assist bike on mountain bike trails located in Indiana State Parks and Forests. When I inform them of the IDNR's position, often times they proceed to argue with me. I am only the messenger. If you want to try to convince the IDNR that Indiana's Vehicle code supersedes their own legal definition of a vehicle, please have at it.
    You can ride a e bike on all of the bike paths and city parks in marion county including Town Run MT bike park , and some county parks as well as valley Branch MT bike park and French lick (Befflo trace) and lots of other were nobody cares

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I'm really surprised you would say this. The "camel's nose under the tent" is what so many of us who are against allowing ebikes on non-motorized trails have been saying.
    The difference is that I say it with admiration for a clever tactic, and with hope that it's a successful one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fos'l View Post
    CA law (the last time I read it) stated that beginning in 2017 all OEM bikes must have their "class" clearly identified, but, like anything else, the bikes could be modified.
    Were there any regulations or guidelines stated as to how they were to be clearly identified?
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

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    "I'm not a lawyer, but I do play one on the interent."

    Let's keep the discussion to actual state rules and leave the theoretical legal musings and access issues for a different discussion.

    I'm merging a bunch of posts from this thread into the 'Access Argument' thread as that's where this discussion has ended up.

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    I came across this, it could be of interest to those in CA.

    California State Parks Tighten Noose On E-Bike Use – Jimmy Mac On Two Wheels

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    I came across this, it could be of interest to those in CA.

    California State Parks Tighten Noose On E-Bike Use – Jimmy Mac On Two Wheels
    It is definitely of interest to those in Colorado.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by watermonkey View Post
    It is definitely of interest to those in Colorado.
    I've already sent it on to a contact at CPW. I'd like to hear what the issues were more specifically.

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    All I could find was this - referencing trail portions in the State Parks are multi-jurisdictional along their route - ie, move in and out of Federal and State lands.
    E-bikes no longer allowed in Point Mugu backcountry
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    "I'm not a lawyer, but I do play one on the interent."

    Let's keep the discussion to actual state rules and leave the theoretical legal musings and access issues for a different discussion.

    I'm merging a bunch of posts from this thread into the 'Access Argument' thread as that's where this discussion has ended up.

    Um.... If you want to talk about laws, I'm gonna be there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    This is what the Maryland DNR has stated about ebikes. I'm wondering if other states follow similar rules. If so what is the official word? It would be great if we could compile a list below.



    Code of Maryland Regulations (COMAR) - Maryland Law Resources - LibGuides at University of Maryland Libraries
    Here is a list of states with positive ebike laws for emtb:
    Arizona: https://bikerumor.com/2019/01/04/fri...es-deals-more/
    Arkansas: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.XLX0s55MFTs
    Pennsylvania: https://www.ebikekit.com/blogs/news/...vania-roadways
    Utah: https://le.utah.gov/~2016/bills/static/SB0121.html
    Idaho/wyoming: https://mountainbiketetons.org/trail...ew-ebike-laws/

    States that ban ebikes on natural surface trails by default but allow the managing agency to include ebikes on nonmotorized trails:
    Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado

    States that hard ban emtb on non motorized trails:
    Ohio

    The three states to pass legislation in 2019 for ebikes include ebike trail usage in their laws. People For Bikes has shifted their approach of dividing out singletrack, to an approach that includes it. If there is a better link referencing a state law please include it, as well as other states with relevant emtb laws.

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    Indiana just passed E-Bike Legislation that does not allow e-bikes on non motorized natural surface trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indytrekracer View Post
    Indiana just passed E-Bike Legislation that does not allow e-bikes on non motorized natural surface trails.
    Well there goes my emtb vacation plans. Do you have a link so i can add it to my list? That news is good for the Griffon bike park as emtb is allowed there; https://www.singletracks.com/blog/tr...rprising-ways/

    Minnesota is super positive; https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_tr...rail_uses.html

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    Indiana House Bill 1236

    House Bill 1236 - Electric bicycles - Indiana General Assembly, 2019 Session

    Indiana State Parks are strongly opposed to e-bikes.

    Griffen is a local park.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indytrekracer View Post
    Indiana House Bill 1236


    Indiana State Parks are strongly opposed to e-bikes.
    I'm shocked that such a forward thinking and progressive state as Indiana would have such an attitude.

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    Subscribed. Particularly for CA restrictions. At this point in time it's hard to justify a $5k (just generalizing a number here...)purchase for one with limited areas to ride. Its unnerving enough as it is now venturing "off" trail at times to add in the worry of being on one of these new models in question. Otherwise moving over to somewhere in Europe where there's more acceptance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by indytrekracer View Post
    Indiana House Bill 1236

    House Bill 1236 - Electric bicycles - Indiana General Assembly, 2019 Session

    Indiana State Parks are strongly opposed to e-bikes.

    Griffen is a local park.
    Not to get too bogged down, but Griffin is run by the Vigo County Parks and Rec department. The Indiana law does allow for eBike use on public singletrack, despite the fact that it does not provide a blanket allowance. EBikes in Indiana are not locked into nonmotorized trails by Bill 1236 nor are they locked out.

    6
    A local authority or state agency may regulate the use of electric
    bicycles or any class of electric bicycle on a bicycle path or trail
    described under this subsection.

    This legislation is similar to Colorado, Washington, and Oregon. I will break down EMtb legislation into three classes:
    Categoty 1+: Minnesota
    Category 1: Arizona, Arkansas, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Pennsylvania
    Category 2: California, Colorado, Oregon, Indiana, Washington
    Category 3: Ohio

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    Correct on Griffen being a county park (I was more focused on it not being a State Property), and yes, the local authority can allow e-bikes on single track. But the default is that single track trails in Indiana do not allow e-bikes, unless the local authority takes action to allow them.

    With respect to Brown County State Park, we are often asked if e-bikes are allowed. Indiana State Parks has told us the answer is no. They did not have a specific policy on e-bikes. They simple said they considered e-bikes to be motorized and not allowed on non motorized trails.

    When we pass that information on, we are often challenged to show where in the rules it says e-bikes are not allowed.

    This legislation puts the burden on those would like e-bike access in Indiana to get land managers to formally allow e-bikes on natural surface trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by figofspee View Post
    Here is a list of states with positive ebike laws for emtb:
    Arizona: https://bikerumor.com/2019/01/04/fri...es-deals-more/
    Arkansas: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.XLX0s55MFTs
    Pennsylvania: https://www.ebikekit.com/blogs/news/...vania-roadways
    Utah: https://le.utah.gov/~2016/bills/static/SB0121.html
    Idaho/wyoming: https://mountainbiketetons.org/trail...ew-ebike-laws/

    States that ban ebikes on natural surface trails by default but allow the managing agency to include ebikes on nonmotorized trails:
    Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado

    States that hard ban emtb on non motorized trails:
    Ohio

    The three states to pass legislation in 2019 for ebikes include ebike trail usage in their laws. People For Bikes has shifted their approach of dividing out singletrack, to an approach that includes it. If there is a better link referencing a state law please include it, as well as other states with relevant emtb laws.
    The Arizona law’s vague wording of “multiuse path” was interpreted by South Mountain Park manager Dan Gronseth as allowing eBikes there until if and when the Phoenix Park Board makes a formal decision. I know this because I talked to him about some no eBike stickers that were placed on signs; these were illicit as the park had never purchased such stickers and he kindly had his rangers remove them.

    Maricopa County has also allowed access on their trails; they updated their FAQ on eBikes to reference the new law; last time I rode I saw six other eBikes; lots of older folks like myself.

    I wouldn’t count on riding any Arizona trail on an eBike without knowing its status; Brown’s Ranch and McDowell mountain preserve are still closed to eBikes and of course all non-motorized Federal trails are out. Still, lots of places to ride an eBike in and around Phoenix; lets all ride responsibly and keep it that way as land boards may easily reverse their decisions; we’re a tiny minority of users.
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  33. #33
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    Whenever I take my mountain bike on a trip/vacation, I always invest time doing a little research. I identify trails/locations I want to ride. I then contact the local bike advocacy group in that area, explain I'm going to be visiting, and ask a couple questions, like:
    1). Are there any trail access issues that I need to be aware of and/or specific trails I must avoid; 2). I'll be in town from * to *. Any chance of meeting up with some locals to show me the good stuff?; 3). I'm coming from San Diego. Do you have a favorite microbrew or one you have been wanting to try?

    I mention this because here in San Diego we have trails that may run through multiple properties, and each property being managed by a different entity. It gets better. These land managing agencies can be SD City or SD County or State Parks or State Fish & Wildlife or USFWS or USFS or BLM. Oh yeah, cannot forget the hundreds of Environmental Land Conservancy's that manage patches of land.

    Trails managed by the CITY of San Diego allow Class 1 Electric Motorized Cycles (EMC's)where mountain bikes are allowed. Trails managed by the COUNTY of San Diego prohibit all EMC's from all of their trails. We have trails that begin on City property, cross over County property, enter and exit a State managed property, abruptly turn at the fence surrounding a federal property, and end on County property. If you were to ask me if EMC's are allowed on this trail, my answer is NO. Regardless of the fact that EMC's are allowed on some of the trail, the fact that EMC's are prohibited on some of this trail means that you may get cited if you are on a EMC.

    If I were an EMC advocate, this might be a situation I would build a case on.

    While land access issues may be non-existent or minimal in many areas, all trail users have the responsibility to know what the legal status is of the trail they are on. In my opinion, since many States have turned over the responsibility of determining the legal status of EMC trail access to local governments, I would be concerned with local regulations rather than State regulations. Furthermore, based on personal experience, it is much easier to influence policy at the local level compared to the State or Federal levels.
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  34. #34
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    I’d like more info on legal stretch of Porcupine Rim to do a no-automobile eBike powered loop of a shuttle!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrow View Post
    I’d like more info on legal stretch of Porcupine Rim to do a no-automobile eBike powered loop of a shuttle!
    You can't legally get to the river on an eBike from Porcupine. You must start at the original starting point, the Porcupine Rim West Trailhead, by the water troughs which are a few miles before you get to the LPS/UPS trailhead. You can go out on the traditional route (no singletrack) until you get to the motorized closure point, then you have to turn around and return to the water troughs. You can then head west, back toward Moab. This route is almost never used by MTBs, but it is open to motorized vehicles and is usually called the Porcupine Rim 4x4 road. It will go west, generally paralleling Sand Flats Road, until it hooks up with the Fins 'N Things Jeep trail. That takes you very close to the Slickrock Trailhead.

    Here is the definitive map: https://www.grandcountyutah.net/Docu...rail-maps-2018

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    A move to allowing eBikes on LPS/UPS would certainly cut back on road damage. Maybe eliminate private-shuttles and keep things rolling for commercial operators' shuttles, and eBike self-shuttling.

    Perhaps a more sustainable model for those busiest times of year on those very busy rides. And a pretty smart use of the technology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrow View Post
    A move to allowing eBikes on LPS/UPS would certainly cut back on road damage. Maybe eliminate private-shuttles and keep things rolling for commercial operators' shuttles, and eBike self-shuttling.

    Perhaps a more sustainable model for those busiest times of year on those very busy rides. And a pretty smart use of the technology.
    Let me get this straight. First you want to take away my ability to set up my own shuttle. Then you're going to force me to pay a commercial entity to shuttle me on their schedule. Then, once done with that whole thing, I get to share the previously non-motorized trails with e-bikes. Win-win-win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by watermonkey View Post
    Let me get this straight. First you want to take away my ability to set up my own shuttle. Then you're going to force me to pay a commercial entity to shuttle me on their schedule. Then, once done with that whole thing, I get to share the previously non-motorized trails with e-bikes. Win-win-win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not.
    I better back up and re-state my little thought experiment. I was typing on my phone and just half assedly developing the concept. I was in error to advocate taking away your ability to self shuttle, or to be beheld to for-profit shuttle companies.

    Imagining Lower Porcupine Shuttle, opened to class 1 eMTBs. I would bet that an overall lower impact to the Earth, as well as to the immediate environs of the road, the trail, other users, could be overall lessened with the use of eMTBs for electric assisted shuttles. It is really not too big to imagine a benefit.

    The flow of traffic on the bicycle specific trail would not be impacted by eBikes, the DH traffic is already able to outpace the assist speeds of an eMTB. Sharing the trail with eMTBs would offer no inconvenience, other than dodging eMTBs climbing the dirt roads. You are likely already sharing some trail with eMTBs poaching, and likely are not inconvenienced in the least.

    The BLM is pretty good at selling recreation on the lands they manage. I'd think the most likely federal land manager to consider such a use experiment for eMTBs. The Pocupine Trail shuttle(s) are a pretty ripe space to do some testing, perhaps it's a valid idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrow View Post
    I’d like more info on legal stretch of Porcupine Rim to do a no-automobile eBike powered loop of a shuttle!
    What does that have to do with state rules? None of the trails in that area are on state land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunderland56 View Post
    What does that have to do with state rules? None of the trails in that area are on state land.
    I'm pretty sure it is just a tangent to the thread. It is just what is motorized legal. NOT bearing on Utah State rules governing eMTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrow View Post
    Imagining Lower Porcupine Shuttle, opened to class 1 eMTBs. It is really not too big to imagine a benefit.
    A ride from downtown Moab, up Sand Flats road, down LPS, and down Porc Rim to the wilderness boundary, is 20-odd miles and 2-ish hours, maybe 3 if you're old and slow. Do you really need assistance or a shuttle for that short of a ride?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunderland56 View Post
    A ride from downtown Moab, up Sand Flats road, down LPS, and down Porc Rim to the wilderness boundary, is 20-odd miles and 2-ish hours, maybe 3 if you're old and slow. Do you really need assistance or a shuttle for that short of a ride?
    You can ride from downtown Moab to the Wilderness Boundary in two hours? Why aren't you riding the Tour de France?

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    "This legislation is similar to Colorado, Washington, and Oregon. I will break down EMtb legislation into three classes:
    Categoty 1+: Minnesota
    Category 1: Arizona, Arkansas, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Pennsylvania
    Category 2: California, Colorado, Oregon, Indiana, Washington
    Category 3: Ohio"

    This list makes absolutely no sense and also is not correct as Oregon has not adopted the Class laws that CA, CO and WA have in place. The state made adjustments to their "path" laws last year to allow eBikes on 8' wide paths only and beaches that allow motorized access.
    A bike by any other name is still a bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigwheel View Post
    "This legislation is similar to Colorado, Washington, and Oregon. I will break down EMtb legislation into three classes:
    Categoty 1+: Minnesota
    Category 1: Arizona, Arkansas, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Pennsylvania
    Category 2: California, Colorado, Oregon, Indiana, Washington
    Category 3: Ohio"

    This list makes absolutely no sense and also is not correct as Oregon has not adopted the Class laws that CA, CO and WA have in place. The state made adjustments to their "path" laws last year to allow eBikes on 8' wide paths only and beaches that allow motorized access.
    I knew someone would conflate what I was saying, which is why I used category instead of class, yet you still managed to conflate the situation. Shame.

    Oregon does allow for eBikes on singletrack pending manager approval.
    https://bikeportland.org/2018/08/31/...-trails-288379

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    Quote Originally Posted by figofspee View Post
    I knew someone would conflate what I was saying, which is why I used category instead of class, yet you still managed to conflate the situation. Shame.
    You continue to struggle with effective communication.

    "I will break down EMtb legislation into three classes:
    Categoty 1+: Minnesota
    Category 1: Arizona, Arkansas, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Pennsylvania
    Category 2: California, Colorado, Oregon, Indiana, Washington
    Category 3: Ohio"

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    Quote Originally Posted by og-mtb View Post
    You continue to struggle with effective communication.

    "I will break down EMtb legislation into three classes:
    Categoty 1+: Minnesota
    Category 1: Arizona, Arkansas, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Pennsylvania
    Category 2: California, Colorado, Oregon, Indiana, Washington
    Category 3: Ohio"
    Originally I used class on all of those because I thought it was a cute reference to how the legislature classes, but I changed it when I realized someone would bring eBike classes into the discussion. I am well aware that I left one of those because I don't believe in changing an entire approach for the benefit of those who fail to fully understand a point of view before posting in a reactionary response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by figofspee View Post
    Here is a list of states with positive ebike laws for emtb:
    Arizona: https://bikerumor.com/2019/01/04/fri...es-deals-more/
    Arkansas: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.XLX0s55MFTs
    Pennsylvania: https://www.ebikekit.com/blogs/news/...vania-roadways
    Utah: https://le.utah.gov/~2016/bills/static/SB0121.html
    Idaho/wyoming: https://mountainbiketetons.org/trail...ew-ebike-laws/

    States that ban ebikes on natural surface trails by default but allow the managing agency to include ebikes on nonmotorized trails:
    Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado

    States that hard ban emtb on non motorized trails:
    Ohio

    The three states to pass legislation in 2019 for ebikes include ebike trail usage in their laws. People For Bikes has shifted their approach of dividing out singletrack, to an approach that includes it. If there is a better link referencing a state law please include it, as well as other states with relevant emtb laws.
    FYI, Ohio passed legislation effective this year regarding e-bikes. The state law allows the local land managers to determine if they can be ridden on natural surface non-motorized trails. https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-conten...pressednew.pdf I would not consider this a "hard-ban", at least no more so than many other states that have similar legislation. Ohio basically adopted the People For Bikes classic "model legislation," although it sounds like that organization has shifted to a more pro-emtb policy recently.

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    "Oregon does allow for eBikes on singletrack pending manager approval.
    https://bikeportland.org/2018/08/31/...-trails-288379"

    Yeah, as long as the single track is 8' wide....

    (3) A person may operate an electric assisted bicycle on roads and trails eight feet or wider unless otherwise posted to restrict or permit such activity.

    If I was you FOS, which could be taken another way btw, I would quit while you are behind. And take that from someone that actually likes eBikes.
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    Georgia has joined the current adoption of ebike laws based on the class system and there are several places to ride. I hope the trend continues and is adopted by Federal Land management.

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    Thanks for the useful updates!
    Categoty 1+: Minnesota, Tennessee
    Category 1: Arizona, Arkansas, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, Georgia
    Category 2: California, Colorado, Oregon, Indiana, Washington, Ohio, Texas (pending)
    Category 3:

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    Quote Originally Posted by figofspee View Post
    Thanks for the useful updates!
    Categoty 1+: Minnesota, Tennessee
    Category 1: Arizona, Arkansas, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, Georgia
    Category 2: California, Colorado, Oregon, Indiana, Washington, Ohio, Texas (pending)
    Category 3:
    Arizona belongs in Category 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional50s View Post
    Georgia has joined the current adoption of ebike laws based on the class system and there are several places to ride. I hope the trend continues and is adopted by Federal Land management.
    Links please?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Links please?
    http://www.legis.ga.gov/legislation/...0192020/HB/454

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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerdave View Post
    Category 1 is default allowed but potentially banned depending on the trail. Arizona is a solid 1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional50s View Post
    Wow! Trail access for Ebikes is actually growing, so much for the fear mongering we keep hearing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinoyMTBer View Post
    Wow! Trail access for Ebikes is actually growing, so much for the fear mongering we keep hearing.
    Weird, it's like you either didn't read or can't understand the amendment that was linked above.

    (3) This subsection shall not apply to a bicycle path or shared use path designated for nonmotorized vehicles if such path has a natural surface tread made by clearing and grading the native soil with no added surface materials. The types of devices which may be used upon such trails may be regulated by the local authority or state agency having jurisdiction over such path.

    Like many States, GA has adopted a class system while permitting local authorities or state agencies to ban them as they please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimtacos View Post
    Weird, it's like you either didn't read or can't understand the amendment that was linked above.

    (3) This subsection shall not apply to a bicycle path or shared use path designated for nonmotorized vehicles if such path has a natural surface tread made by clearing and grading the native soil with no added surface materials. The types of devices which may be used upon such trails may be regulated by the local authority or state agency having jurisdiction over such path.

    Like many States, GA has adopted a class system while permitting local authorities or state agencies to ban them as they please.
    1 question...have they opted to ban them already? Name some! Federal land and BLMs sure...but beyond that?

    Ebike opponents always rubs it in to Ebikers whenever certain places bans them.

    But in all actually for every 1 place we are not allowed. There are many other that allows them. Plus! The list keeps on growing.

    Did I misunderstand it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinoyMTBer View Post

    Did I misunderstand it?
    You seemed to misunderstand the law that was linked. The law did not say they are legal, just that the land managers have the right to make the allowed or banned.

    That is why I asked for the link, without it people just speculate, and some only read it the way they want to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinoyMTBer View Post
    1 question...have they opted to ban them already? Name some! Federal land and BLMs sure...but beyond that?

    Ebike opponents always rubs it in to Ebikers whenever certain places bans them.

    But in all actually for every 1 place we are not allowed. There are many other that allows them. Plus! The list keeps on growing.

    Did I misunderstand it?
    On some trails, yes. I believe the county the trails are in banned them (county park).
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinoyMTBer View Post
    Wow! Trail access for Ebikes is actually growing, so much for the fear mongering we keep hearing.
    Yep! Georgia went from blanket banning eBikes on all trails (they we're previously categorized as motor vehicles) to leaving it up to the land manager (same as regular bikes).

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinoyMTBer View Post
    But in all actually for every 1 place we are not allowed. There are many other that allows them. Plus! The list keeps on growing.

    Did I misunderstand it?
    Yes. You misunderstood it.

    GA, like many states, amending its ebike regs by introducing a class system, clarifying what road-adjacent pathways are legal for what classes and also specifically added language pointing out that the new regs do not apply natural surface trails (local folks still make that call).

    So yes, when you posted "Wow! Trail access for Ebikes is actually growing" that was a misrepresentation of what happened in GA. A "list" doesn't "grow" when no additional access is added.

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    Quote Originally Posted by figofspee View Post
    Yep! Georgia went from blanket banning eBikes on all trails (they we're previously categorized as motor vehicles) to leaving it up to the land manager (same as regular bikes).
    This is yet another false claim on your part.

    There was no blanket ban on ebikes on all trails in GA.

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    Good to know! People for Bikes painted them red last I saw. It's irrelevant now either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimtacos View Post
    Yes. You misunderstood it.

    GA, like many states, amending its ebike regs by introducing a class system, clarifying what road-adjacent pathways are legal for what classes and also specifically added language pointing out that the new regs do not apply natural surface trails (local folks still make that call).

    So yes, when you posted "Wow! Trail access for Ebikes is actually growing" that was a misrepresentation of what happened in GA. A "list" doesn't "grow" when no additional access is added.
    My list grew to include Georgia as a category 1. If they we're already a 1, so be it.

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    New York went from category 3 to a category 1 this week! I will hold off until the dust settles before giving it a solid rating.

    https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation...dment/original

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    Quote Originally Posted by figofspee View Post
    New York went from category 3 to a category 1 this week! I will hold off until the dust settles before giving it a solid rating.

    https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation...dment/original
    While this is a sensible move by NYC on clarifying a point of law with regard to Vehicle and Traffic law I don't believe it's about trail access and therefore off-topic.

    If we keep conversations focused on-topic then my hope is that we will see a more productive threads developing and less threads imploding into circular arguments.

    DB

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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    While this is a sensible move by NYC on clarifying a point of law with regard to Vehicle and Traffic law I don't believe it's about trail access and therefore off-topic.

    If we keep conversations focused on-topic then my hope is that we will see a more productive threads developing and less threads imploding into circular arguments.

    DB
    The law says:

    A BICYCLE WITH ELECTRIC ASSIST SHALL BE SUBJECT TO ALL THE
    PROVISIONS APPLICABLE TO A BICYCLE AND NO OTHER PROVISIONS.

    If a governing body wants to ban eBikes from a state owned bike trail they will have to intentionally do that. If you can demonstrate how this law won't effect e-mtb, I would be interested in seeing it. So far, I can't find any interpretation on the subject outside of my own. In the electric scooter section, they use the word bike trail and electric scooters are allowed as long as they follow the electric scooter laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by figofspee View Post
    The law says:

    A BICYCLE WITH ELECTRIC ASSIST SHALL BE SUBJECT TO ALL THE
    PROVISIONS APPLICABLE TO A BICYCLE AND NO OTHER PROVISIONS.

    If a governing body wants to ban eBikes from a state owned bike trail they will have to intentionally do that. If you can demonstrate how this law won't effect e-mtb, I would be interested in seeing it. So far, I can't find any interpretation on the subject outside of my own. In the electric scooter section, they use the word bike trail and electric scooters are allowed as long as they follow the electric scooter laws.
    How in the world do some people still not understand that vehicle and traffic codes don't apply to actual dirt MTB trails?

    Holy obtuse Batman...
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    I'm not here to argue with anyone on this, I'm trying to keep it on topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    I'm not here to argue with anyone on this, I'm trying to keep it on topic.
    You were on the right track when you clarified things with your previous post.

    Those NY codes have nothing at all to do with trail riding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by figofspee View Post
    The law says:

    A BICYCLE WITH ELECTRIC ASSIST SHALL BE SUBJECT TO ALL THE
    PROVISIONS APPLICABLE TO A BICYCLE AND NO OTHER PROVISIONS.

    If a governing body wants to ban eBikes from a state owned bike trail they will have to intentionally do that. If you can demonstrate how this law won't effect e-mtb, I would be interested in seeing it. So far, I can't find any interpretation on the subject outside of my own. In the electric scooter section, they use the word bike trail and electric scooters are allowed as long as they follow the electric scooter laws.
    Fig - You are quoting vehicle code which has no bearings on non-paved trail use, and in some cases the paved trails have a different subset of rules that apply to them as well.

    On the flip side when you see a Multi-use trail that says "no motorized vehicles" it often is based on Vehicle code referencing motorcycles, quads and jeeps and has nothing to do with eBikes. So if someone is against eBikes and their sole argument is a "no motorized vehicles" sign we have a solid idea that the argument is off-base.

    There is a large amount of confusion around this topic and yes each land manager is on the hook to make a ruling one way or the other. But to make a blanket claim that a change in vehicle code has something to do with Natural Surface trails is not a solid argument.
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    Most forest preserve lands are classified as wilderness or wild forest. Mountain bikes are prohibited in wilderness but allowed on trails in wild forest areas. Since state law regards e-bikes as motor vehicles, they are not allowed on any trails in the forest preserve.

    https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/s...he-adirondacks

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    Quote Originally Posted by figofspee View Post
    Most forest preserve lands are classified as wilderness or wild forest. Mountain bikes are prohibited in wilderness but allowed on trails in wild forest areas. Since state law regards e-bikes as motor vehicles, they are not allowed on any trails in the forest preserve.

    https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/s...he-adirondacks
    From that article:
    In December, the Adirondack Park Agency authorized the use of Class 1 e-bikes on a proposed rail trail that would extend 34 miles from Lake Placid to Tupper Lake. The state’s original plan to build the trail was blocked by a judge, but the state is taking steps to address the court’s concerns. The rail corridor is not part of the forest preserve.

    The APA also added a definition of “electric-assisted bicycle” to the Adirondack Park State Land Master Plan that is consistent with the definition of a Class 1 e-bike. The plan says nothing about the other classes. If the state were to open up the forest preserve to e-bikes, they probably would be of the Class 1 variety.
    Looks to me like the Land Manager is NOT using Vehicle code or laws to govern how trails are accessed, but rather have chosen to go with Class 1 and make those legal on this specific trail as well as make Class 2 and 3 Illegal no matter what is legal on the streets of New York State.
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    Last Post: 03-25-2013, 12:53 PM

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