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  1. #1
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    My analog bike is in existential crisis

    No, I'm not giving up my analog bike. I still like it, for specific trails. To me, analog is the only way to go downhill, I love that. But for the rest of the offroad (and onroad) stuff out there, this is what I feared before I got my e-bike conversion: that I'd start riding the e-bike more and more, and the analog bike less and less. That is exactly what's happening.

    After someone has ridden all of the local fire/gravel roads and trails dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of times, it just becomes a routine. It's the same old thing. Yeah, maybe you get a new tire, or a dropper post, or a new fork, and it's fun to see the difference...for a while. And then it's just the same old thing, over and over again. The e-bike has changed that dynamic. That's actually an understatement. Maybe one day I'll think the same thing about it too, but for now it turns a boring fire road or smooth hardpacked trail into something fun again.

    Since it's getting darker, I don't have time to drive far on the weekdays after work, so that crams everything into the weekend for a decent ride loop in sunlight. I dunno how you guys feel about this subject, but the e-bike is simply more fun and more rewarding on everything except downhill trails. It's more fun on pavement, gravel, fire roads, double track, everything except singletrack. And I was riding the non-singletrack stuff 80% of the time before I got the e-bike, so that ratio has not changed, it's just what bike is riding on it that has changed. So my fear came true: I'm favoring the e-bike over the analog bike; mile-wise it is probably 80%/20%. I really do want to ride the analog bike more, but I don't really like to ride downhill stuff in the dark, so until Spring rolls around, it's probably going to get one downhill loop a week and the e-bike will be for everything else. Because it's just more fun, period. Sorry I said it, it's true.

    I'm riding all over the place on the weekdays after work near my home with the e-bike now. Well, actually, farther and farther away from my home...because I can now! I'm saving the analog bike for the weekends. I was originally thinking OK, one fun downhill loop on Saturday, and then one 'exploratory' easier trail on Sunday with the analog bike, then back to the e-bike on the weekdays. But I'm 30 minutes into my ride today on the analog bike, on a fire road, hoping to get up the hill to some new trails, and I'm like thinking, what am I doing on this bike? I felt like I was wasting my time, when I could have already been 1/2 way up that hill on the e-bike. Why do I have to force myself to ride the analog bike twice a week, when the e-bike is more fun on this easier stuff? Am I supposed to feel guilty or weird because I may end up riding the analog bike once a week and the e-bike 3-4 times per week?

    Just this Friday, I changed it up and went up a trail with steep sections on the e-bike. The trail is really broken up with chipped rocks. No way I could ride up it with my analog bike. But with the e-bike, it suddenly becomes a challenge: can I get all the way up the steep section? I almost did twice. It's challenging, when going up with the analog bike just doesn't even apply. Instead of walking the bike up that section, I'm riding up it, and it's fun! There are steep sections all over the place that I have yet to try on the e-bike. It's like a whole new sport now.


    Do you guys feel similarly, or do you ride the analog bike(s) more?

  2. #2
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    I get where you're coming from, I recently purchased a E Fat bike, as I want to explore longer routes that include a lot of climbing that I simply wouldn't be able to complete on my normal bike. So now I'm still feeling the effects of pushing myself but it's after 25 miles of remote new single track, with a grin on my face for every one of them. The normal fat bike will be used for flatter / easier / shorter routes that a group of friends tend to ride.
    I'm also enjoying the learning curve of riding a heavier but assisted bike and managing my riding style to maximize the range,while thinking more carefully about the preparation, route planning and navigation.

  3. #3
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    Word for word I feel the same. Still ride my analog bike about once a week but way more smiles per miles on the E bike.

    Great line “Because it’s just more fun, period” but you didn’t need to apologize for stating the truth!

  4. #4
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    No.

    I think the term analog bike is too dumb fir words. This post, are you really that bored?

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    No, I'm not giving up my analog bike. I still like it, for specific trails. To me, analog is the only way to go downhill, I love that. But for the rest of the offroad (and onroad) stuff out there, this is what I feared before I got my e-bike conversion: that I'd start riding the e-bike more and more, and the analog bike less and less. That is exactly what's happening.

    After someone has ridden all of the local fire/gravel roads and trails dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of times, it just becomes a routine. It's the same old thing. Yeah, maybe you get a new tire, or a dropper post, or a new fork, and it's fun to see the difference...for a while. And then it's just the same old thing, over and over again. The e-bike has changed that dynamic. That's actually an understatement. Maybe one day I'll think the same thing about it too, but for now it turns a boring fire road or smooth hardpacked trail into something fun again.

    Since it's getting darker, I don't have time to drive far on the weekdays after work, so that crams everything into the weekend for a decent ride loop in sunlight. I dunno how you guys feel about this subject, but the e-bike is simply more fun and more rewarding on everything except downhill trails. It's more fun on pavement, gravel, fire roads, double track, everything except singletrack. And I was riding the non-singletrack stuff 80% of the time before I got the e-bike, so that ratio has not changed, it's just what bike is riding on it that has changed. So my fear came true: I'm favoring the e-bike over the analog bike; mile-wise it is probably 80%/20%. I really do want to ride the analog bike more, but I don't really like to ride downhill stuff in the dark, so until Spring rolls around, it's probably going to get one downhill loop a week and the e-bike will be for everything else. Because it's just more fun, period. Sorry I said it, it's true.

    I'm riding all over the place on the weekdays after work near my home with the e-bike now. Well, actually, farther and farther away from my home...because I can now! I'm saving the analog bike for the weekends. I was originally thinking OK, one fun downhill loop on Saturday, and then one 'exploratory' easier trail on Sunday with the analog bike, then back to the e-bike on the weekdays. But I'm 30 minutes into my ride today on the analog bike, on a fire road, hoping to get up the hill to some new trails, and I'm like thinking, what am I doing on this bike? I felt like I was wasting my time, when I could have already been 1/2 way up that hill on the e-bike. Why do I have to force myself to ride the analog bike twice a week, when the e-bike is more fun on this easier stuff? Am I supposed to feel guilty or weird because I may end up riding the analog bike once a week and the e-bike 3-4 times per week?

    Just this Friday, I changed it up and went up a trail with steep sections on the e-bike. The trail is really broken up with chipped rocks. No way I could ride up it with my analog bike. But with the e-bike, it suddenly becomes a challenge: can I get all the way up the steep section? I almost did twice. It's challenging, when going up with the analog bike just doesn't even apply. Instead of walking the bike up that section, I'm riding up it, and it's fun! There are steep sections all over the place that I have yet to try on the e-bike. It's like a whole new sport now.


    Do you guys feel similarly, or do you ride the analog bike(s) more?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    No.

    I think the term analog bike is too dumb fir words. This post, are you really that bored?
    He obviously has no clue as to what "analog" means, just like the person he picked it up from.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    He obviously has no clue as to what "analog" means, just like the person he picked it up from.
    This might help.
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  7. #7
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    It feels like a different sport because it is.

  8. #8
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    analogue: something similar to something else in design, origin, use, etc.

    Jack and x3 get it. NB and chaz don't, but for reasons known only to them (insecurity? just plain meanness?) insist on trolling the ebike forum. They miss/ignore the main points of rich's post and dwell on word usage for the sake of being negative (and/or a pathetic attempt to somehow feel better about themselves). One would think they'd have more useful and fun things to do.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by levity View Post
    analogue: something similar to something else in design, origin, use, etc.
    Are you trying to say that the ebike is the modern anologue to the bicycle? That is how the word anologue is used in the context you quoted. You wouldn’t say ”I like electric cars better than anologue cars”

    “An analogue is the source from which an analogy is derived. Analogy is the thing you communicate, while analogue is the subject you are communicating about.”


    I think the term “analog” being used to describe a bicycle was a play on the old “analog vs digital”, which still doesn’t make any sense since in that respect both digital and analog singnals use electrical impulses and there is no electricity in a bicycle.

    “The difference between analog and digital technologies is that in analog technology, information is translated into electric pulses of varying amplitude. In digital technology, translation of information is into binary format (zero or one) where each bit is representative of two distinct amplitudes.”

  10. #10
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    I agree that the term 'analog' is wrong, I'm guessing it was used by a cycling journalist at some point and picked by others. However I read the whole of richj's post rather than worry about the first sentence.

    This Youtube video sums it up;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIjhoClGeA0
    What a perfect waste of time

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    It feels like a different sport because it is.
    1000x this.

    If you like ebiking, that's great!

    But it's not mountain biking.
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  12. #12
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    I agree that in my experience, E-bikes are a "whole new sport".

    I don't have a problem with the "analog bike" term, personally, though since e-bikes already have a distinct name, it seems like you could just say "bike" and "e-bike" to distinguish them. Regardless, I knew what OP was trying to say, so no real problem.

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  13. #13
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    Analog = bicycle?
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

  14. #14
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    ebikes arent for me, but i'm glad my friend has one. he gets out way more now. I also see many more people on them in the 60+ age group. not ripping down single track, but getting out and enjoying life.

    "I think the term analog bike is too dumb fir words." that made my Monday am.

  15. #15
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    Amen! Everyone's experience is different, this is why so many people don't understand e-bikes. Personally, I ride from home, I don't shuttle my bike by car to the trails. I have to ride dangerous and steep canyon roads to get to the trail head. Single lane, lots of obstacles on the side of the road, cars speeding past me with little room to spare. Lots of residents live up there and they hate cyclists taking up room on their precious roads. I now ride with a front and rear camera mounted to my bikes because hit-n-runs are rampant here in Los Angeles - not because I want to capture an epic trail ride.

    When I get to the trail head, I'm already exhausted. I see others parking their cars with their mountain bikes on the roof/rack. They all pass me on the trail because they're fresh, they didn't get tired from riding to the trail. It takes me about 2-1/2 -3:00 hours by the time I get back home. This is about a 25 mile round trip ride. I've done the same trails over and over for many years.

    With an e-mtb, I get through the dangerous canyon roads 2-3 times faster. Less time on those roads means less danger. And now I get to discover other trails. In the same 2-1/2 to 3 hour ride, I go about 40 miles. Distances not achievable with a regular (analog?) bike in the time frame.

    But I still enjoy my regular mountain bike. My rides are still 70% regular and 30% e-bike. Part of it may be that I feel guilty because of all the negative vibes, but I shouldn't. As the OP said, downhill single track is still more fun with a regular bike. I also enjoy the challenges.

    Then there are the hot southern California days. Temps in the 90's and the sun is beaming on the trails. No way I'm gonna make it up the trails in the heat. This is where the e-bike shines! Instead of sitting at home, I go riding up the trail.

    Everyone's experience is different. Some people are into serious mountain biking, where they discover new trails (by driving to them) and make a day's event out of it. To each his own!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    No, I'm not giving up my analog bike. I still like it, for specific trails. To me, analog is the only way to go downhill, I love that. But for the rest of the offroad (and onroad) stuff out there, this is what I feared before I got my e-bike conversion: that I'd start riding the e-bike more and more, and the analog bike less and less. That is exactly what's happening.

    After someone has ridden all of the local fire/gravel roads and trails dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of times, it just becomes a routine. It's the same old thing. Yeah, maybe you get a new tire, or a dropper post, or a new fork, and it's fun to see the difference...for a while. And then it's just the same old thing, over and over again. The e-bike has changed that dynamic. That's actually an understatement. Maybe one day I'll think the same thing about it too, but for now it turns a boring fire road or smooth hardpacked trail into something fun again.

    Since it's getting darker, I don't have time to drive far on the weekdays after work, so that crams everything into the weekend for a decent ride loop in sunlight. I dunno how you guys feel about this subject, but the e-bike is simply more fun and more rewarding on everything except downhill trails. It's more fun on pavement, gravel, fire roads, double track, everything except singletrack. And I was riding the non-singletrack stuff 80% of the time before I got the e-bike, so that ratio has not changed, it's just what bike is riding on it that has changed. So my fear came true: I'm favoring the e-bike over the analog bike; mile-wise it is probably 80%/20%. I really do want to ride the analog bike more, but I don't really like to ride downhill stuff in the dark, so until Spring rolls around, it's probably going to get one downhill loop a week and the e-bike will be for everything else. Because it's just more fun, period. Sorry I said it, it's true.

    I'm riding all over the place on the weekdays after work near my home with the e-bike now. Well, actually, farther and farther away from my home...because I can now! I'm saving the analog bike for the weekends. I was originally thinking OK, one fun downhill loop on Saturday, and then one 'exploratory' easier trail on Sunday with the analog bike, then back to the e-bike on the weekdays. But I'm 30 minutes into my ride today on the analog bike, on a fire road, hoping to get up the hill to some new trails, and I'm like thinking, what am I doing on this bike? I felt like I was wasting my time, when I could have already been 1/2 way up that hill on the e-bike. Why do I have to force myself to ride the analog bike twice a week, when the e-bike is more fun on this easier stuff? Am I supposed to feel guilty or weird because I may end up riding the analog bike once a week and the e-bike 3-4 times per week?

    Just this Friday, I changed it up and went up a trail with steep sections on the e-bike. The trail is really broken up with chipped rocks. No way I could ride up it with my analog bike. But with the e-bike, it suddenly becomes a challenge: can I get all the way up the steep section? I almost did twice. It's challenging, when going up with the analog bike just doesn't even apply. Instead of walking the bike up that section, I'm riding up it, and it's fun! There are steep sections all over the place that I have yet to try on the e-bike. It's like a whole new sport now.


    Do you guys feel similarly, or do you ride the analog bike(s) more?
    I think you need a bigger bike, to get up that hill. It's going to get boring so keep adding more power.
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  17. #17
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    I’ve been riding ebikes for awhile and they feel like the norm now. Just have fun, put a smile on your face- that’s all that matters. Ride whatever..
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  18. #18
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    Yeah, I don't see the appeal myself. I slightly moreso do with motorcycles of various types, but not enough to ever own one I don't believe.

    Powering it is too big a part of cycling for me.

    But, whatever floats your boat is fine by me.

  19. #19
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    I have a watch that winds up and runs. I consider it analog.
    I have a battery-powered quartz watch that has hands. I consider it digital.

    Calling a traditional pedal-powered bike "analog", would be silly were there no other types of bikes. Since there ARE other types of bikes and they just happen to be powered by electricity and include integrated circuitry, why would there be a problem calling them "digital", other than to somehow make one feel superior to others?

    OP: do what you need to do to get the most enjoyment from your ride. Screw the naysayers!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    I have a watch that winds up and runs. I consider it analog.
    I have a battery-powered quartz watch that has hands. I consider it digital.

    Calling a traditional pedal-powered bike "analog", would be silly were there no other types of bikes. Since there ARE other types of bikes and they just happen to be powered by electricity and include integrated circuitry, why would there be a problem calling them "digital", other than to somehow make one feel superior to others?

    OP: do what you need to do to get the most enjoyment from your ride. Screw the naysayers!
    You're confusing mechanical/electrical with analog/digital.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Calling a traditional pedal-powered bike "analog", would be silly were there no other types of bikes. Since there ARE other types of bikes and they just happen to be powered by electricity and include integrated circuitry, why would there be a problem calling them "digital", other than to somehow make one feel superior to others?

    You could just call it a bicycle.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    You could just call it a bicycle.
    My bike self-identifies as an AH-64 Apache.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiceHorn View Post
    Yeah, I don't see the appeal myself. I slightly moreso do with motorcycles of various types, but not enough to ever own one I don't believe.

    Powering it is too big a part of cycling for me.

    But, whatever floats your boat is fine by me.
    Thank you for having and posting a very respectable and clean opinion. Btw, I got tempted into an Adventure motorcycle and it is extremely fun.
    Last edited by Gutch; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:15 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    You're confusing mechanical/electrical with analog/digital.
    Thank you, but I'm not. I'm just not being accurate to a microscopic level of detail.

    When the OP used "analog" and "digital" within the context of his post, i had no difficulty understanding the meaning and intent.

    The first time I heard someone talk about their "mancave" (a term I have come to loathe), I didn't really think they had carved a hole in the bedrock under their home and filled it with a bar, flatscreen monitors, pool table, etc.

    When someone tells me they "pulled the trigger" and bought a new thing, I don't think that they actually pulled a trigger on a gun before making the purchase.

    People do "bunny hops" on a bike that have no similarity to how a bunny hops, other than than that they leave terra firma, if only momentarily.

    The English language is very fluid and doesn't require that words be used to their strictest definition (unless you want to be THAT person - "ACTUALLY, it's only 'Googling" if you use the Google search engine...)

    an·a·log
    /ˈanlˌōɡ/Submit
    adjective
    1.
    relating to or using signals or information represented by a continuously variable physical quantity

    dig·i·tal
    /ˈdijidl/Submit
    adjective
    adjective: digital
    1.
    (of signals or data) expressed as series of the digits 0 and 1, typically represented by values of a physical quantity such as voltage or magnetic polarization.
    relating to, using, or storing data or information in the form of digital signals.
    "digital TV"
    involving or relating to the use of computer technology.

    A traditional bike is mechanical. Many parts (especially the drivetrain) are continuously variable, fitting fine within the definition of "analog".

    An e-bike is electrical AND computerized, fitting fine within the definition of "digital".

    If you want to go that route, an ebike is NOT a "bicycle" by the strict definition of "bicycle" any more than a moped is a "bicycle" or a motorcycle is a "push-bike".

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Thank you, but I'm not. I'm just not being accurate to a microscopic level of detail....

    A traditional bike is mechanical. Many parts (especially the drivetrain) are continuously variable, fitting fine within the definition of "analog".
    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    I have a watch that winds up and runs. I consider it analog.
    I have a battery-powered quartz watch that has hands. I consider it digital.
    Your not being accurate on any level. An ebike not only has the same mechanical parts as traditional bike, they have even more mechanical parts and more parts that are variable because they are also powered by a battery which is able to give out variable amounts of power, not just on/off - full power/no power.

    An anolog watch has many moving parts while a digital watch (by definition) has zero moving parts.

    If you have an ebike that has zero moving parts, then your analogy would make sense.

  26. #26
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    Is it just too confusing for some people to call and bike a bike and an e-bike an e-bike?

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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahoebeau View Post
    Your not being accurate on any level. An ebike not only has the same mechanical parts as traditional bike, they have even more mechanical parts and more parts that are variable because they are also powered by a battery which is able to give out variable amounts of power, not just on/off - full power/no power.

    An anolog watch has many moving parts while a digital watch (by definition) has zero moving parts.

    If you have an ebike that has zero moving parts, then your analogy would make sense.
    Arguing your point with inaccurate information is silly.

    The battery IS an on/off item. The power is regulated by an external voltage/current regulator, in this case likely an ESC combined with some form of heat sink (to bleed off unused current). The battery is always able to deliver full voltage and amperage, regardless of what you need from it.

    The ESC is a simple computer that uses a digital protocol to handle the work (i.e a "computer"). This is different from a "computer" that bolts to your bars to measure speed, distance travelled, heart rate, etc.
    In the ESC's case the "computer" is used for control of the bike (regulating speed and maybe dynamic braking) and is this a part of the whole package.

    Your watch confusion seems to be base don whether there are hands or not. Even with hands, a quartz watch is "digital" as the stepper motor is controlled by an electronic (digital) circuit that measures time based on discrete vibrations/oscillations of a crystal.

    It doesn't matter if the output drives a stepper motor, or a secondary circuit that changes segments of an LED, LCD, flipping numbered tabs, or lighting up a nixie tube. If the timekeeping is based on that simple crystal circuit, then it's digital.

    They could make a wind-up clock that flips numbers over to show the time. It wouldn't be a "digital" clock even if that's what the gen public called it. Conversely, gutting a wind-up Timex and installing a quartz mechanism behind the face and hands turns it into a digital watch. Remember: A photocopy is not a "Xerox" even if that's what the gen public always used to call it. Using Bing is not "Googling" even though "Googling" has become synonymous with searching the 'net.


    This couldn't be much more of a tangent from the o/p if we tried, but that's how conversation seems to go, eh?

    Digital watch, yes?

    Nope. Purely mechanical.

    My analog bike is in existential crisis-bccd13cdccba0772918c95f0cef956e4.jpg

  28. #28
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    I'm losing respect for everyone who is arguing about the digital/analog idiocy...

    OPs post, regardless of your feelings about e-bikes, made perfect sense to me. Can we talk about something other than dictionary definitions?

    -Walt

  29. #29
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    Give it up bro! ^^^

    Bike

    E-bike

    We all get the metaphor!!
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  30. #30
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    My post wasn't meant for ya! We posted at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I'm losing respect for everyone who is arguing about the digital/analog idiocy...

    OPs post, regardless of your feelings about e-bikes, made perfect sense to me. Can we talk about something other than dictionary definitions?

    -Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I'm losing respect for everyone who is arguing about the digital/analog idiocy...
    When ya got nothing else, go to semantics!
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    You guys must be great at parties.

    "How ya doin'?"
    "I'm good
    " <walks away>

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    Agreed Walt! to get back to OP's question.

    [QUOTE=richj8990;13865810]No, I'm not giving up my analog bike. I still like it, for specific trails. To me, analog is the only way to go downhill, I love that. But for the rest of the offroad (and onroad) stuff out there, this is what I feared before I got my e-bike conversion: that I'd start riding the e-bike more and more, and the analog bike less and less. That is exactly what's happening.

    For me the issue with ebikes (not ebike riders) is I not only still love to climb, but as I get older I have this underlying acknowledgement that time is more and more limited. I’m creeping up on 50 and father time is undefeated. The older you get the more you realize that disabilities, physical limitations, financial situations or life just happens sometimes. If an ebike is what gets you out, go for it. For me I still enjoy the pain of climbing and doing it under my own power, its very meditative for me. I understand many people still get a workout on an ebike, it’s just not for me (yet). I’m also not a motor guy. I enjoy motorcycles and snowmobiles, but don’t love them like I do biking or skinning to ski. That probably plays into it a little too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    You guys must be great at parties.

    "How ya doin'?"
    "I'm good
    " <walks away>
    If arguing semantics is a highlight of your parties, your parties suck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    If arguing semantics is a highlight of your parties, your parties suck!

    Heh, heh.

    At my parties, people talk to each other, and conversation leads to conversation. Believe it or not, some people even start talking about one subject and it leads to another, and maybe another! I once got involved in a conversation about art that flowed all the way to furniture, and guns.

    Mind blown.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post

    an·a·log
    /ˈanlˌōɡ/Submit
    adjective
    1.
    relating to or using signals or information represented by a continuously variable physical quantity



    A traditional bike is mechanical. Many parts (especially the drivetrain) are continuously variable, fitting fine within the definition of "analog".
    .
    Look at your definition, especially the part I bolded. How do the parts of a bicycle use signals or information represented by a continuously variable physical quantity? By your terms, an ebike would also be "analog" as it also has many parts that are "continuously variable".


    While I agree that language is fluid, grossly misusing a term is poor communication imo. Just call a bicycle a bicycle and an ebike and ebike.


    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I'm losing respect for everyone who is arguing about the digital/analog idiocy...

    OPs post, regardless of your feelings about e-bikes, made perfect sense to me. Can we talk about something other than dictionary definitions?

    -Walt
    Actually, I think it's great to actually have some new discussion in regards to ebikes rather than the SOS that is normally posted, over and over and over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Heh, heh.

    At my parties, people talk to each other, and conversation leads to conversation. Believe it or not, some people even start talking about one subject and it leads to another, and maybe another!
    And when the conversation reaches the point of people endlessly arguing in circles around a dictionary trying to prove each other wrong, the party has definitely crossed the major suck line.
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    Some people just thrive on being contrarian, living on the wrong side of the major suck line :-)

    Riding a motor-assisted bike is no different to me than using a chair lift to get to the top of the hill and riding down. I don't ride with a group, never have. I don't go with group-think, never have.
    Why again are people so upset about this new technology?

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Why again are people so upset about this new technology?
    Because of access threats. I like riding the lift and screaming down too, but those are one-way bike only trails (for the record, I support e-bike access on all directional bike-only trails).

    On MUT, motors can bring in lots of new problems. IMO most of those are probably solvable, and they may not even materialize since this is early days, but the threat to trail access posed by e-bikes is certainly real, especially as they continue to evolve toward being indistinguishable at a casual glance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Heh, heh.

    At my parties, people talk to each other, and conversation leads to conversation. Believe it or not, some people even start talking about one subject and it leads to another, and maybe another! I once got involved in a conversation about art that flowed all the way to furniture, and guns.

    Mind blown.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Because of access threats. I like riding the lift and screaming down too, but those are one-way bike only trails (for the record, I support e-bike access on all directional bike-only trails).

    On MUT, motors can bring in lots of new problems. IMO most of those are probably solvable, and they may not even materialize since this is early days, but the threat to trail access posed by e-bikes is certainly real, especially as they continue to evolve toward being indistinguishable at a casual glance.

    -Walt
    Well said!

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    Dude, the preferred nomemclature is acoustic bicycle, juxtaposed with electric bicycle of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Because of access threats. I like riding the lift and screaming down too, but those are one-way bike only trails (for the record, I support e-bike access on all directional bike-only trails).

    On MUT, motors can bring in lots of new problems. IMO most of those are probably solvable, and they may not even materialize since this is early days, but the threat to trail access posed by e-bikes is certainly real, especially as they continue to evolve toward being indistinguishable at a casual glance.

    -Walt
    Is it the speed capability that's the problem, or a concern that the trails will get too crowded when everyone realizes they can ride without effort and they run out to buy one (though it seems the ability to go farther/faster would mitigate that problem)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Is it the speed capability that's the problem, or a concern that the trails will get too crowded when everyone realizes they can ride without effort and they run out to buy one (though it seems the ability to go farther/faster would mitigate that problem)?
    You can find those questions already discussed here ad nauseam, but it's mostly the former.

    -Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    You can find those questions already discussed here ad nauseam, but it's mostly the former.

    -Walt
    It'll be a while before I get to read every thread on the forum and catalog the data in my brain.. I'll just freely admit that if speed is the concern, then some people need to be educated by those who know better.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    It'll be a while before I get to read every thread on the forum and catalog the data in my brain.. I'll just freely admit that if speed is the concern, then some people need to be educated by those who know better.



    Another denier?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I support e-bike access on all directional bike-only trails

    -Walt
    You're making the same mistake a lot of the ebikers make, assuming the trails and conditions around you are the same everywhere. Come ride the heavily traveled, narrow, twisty trails through the forests I ride and then tell me if you think adding ebikes traveling at higher speeds and increasing the need to pass is a good idea and good for the trails and sport. On some of the trails, ok, but I do not want the trails I ride going from narrow single track to blown out highways. There is one trail in particular that is heavily traveled by experienced and newer mtbrers. It is by far the widest trail around. The trails that require more pedaling are a lot narrower.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Another denier?
    Only within logical realms.

    Some don't want people passing them on the trails going up. Would it be safe to assume that those people never pass anyone on the trails going up?

    Some don't want people going faster than them on the trails flat or down. Would it be safe to assume they curtail their own speed to match the slowest rider on the trails?

    To quote a post:"Come ride the heavily traveled, narrow, twisty trails through the forests I ride and then tell me if you think adding ebikes traveling at higher speeds and increasing the need to pass is a good idea". To me, this is a statement of "I ride the trails the correct way. No change should occur.
    But what if someone doesn't like YOUR way, and maybe they demand you ride at 5MPH or not use a bike at all?

    A skilled rider could probably double my speed on an uphill jaunt. It doesn't make me angry. Its seems some people DO get angry. Is it because the person going faster on an e-bike is doing it without the requisite hardship of training and skill-building?

    Is the speed vs. skill THAT much of a concern? Think logically. Think Darwinism.
    The person who can't handle the bike will solve that problem pretty quickly. Witness a friend of mine who took his whole family to the ski hill for their first downhill excursion. Son #1 immediately exceeded his capability and broke an arm on run #1.
    Someone on an e-bike who exceeds their capabilities will not be riding too long. Or they'll build the skillset VERY quickly.

    If the concern is other trail users complaining, what is their reference of complaint? What would they consider an appropriate speed? Would a pro rider pedaling at 20MPH be less dangerous than an e-bike rider at 20MPH?
    Is it the speed, or just the fact that they don't want to share the trail?

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    Dude, I know you're new here, but save it for a necro-thread. It's been discussed, nobody's mind is going to be changed.

    -Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Is it just too confusing for some people to call and bike a bike and an e-bike an e-bike?

    Weird...
    Right?

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    My dualsport motorcycle is pretty good workout on trails (not MTB trails). Only slightly more expensive than an e-motorycle/bicycle. I like the e-motorcycle/bicycle but at a couple grand for a slower motorcycle with with a throttle activated by pedal motion I cannot bring myself to have another wheeled object taking up garage space.

    So I'll keep my motorcycle for fun and my bicycle for exercise/fun. No need to blend the two for me.

    Lot's of gray areas with e-bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Dude, I know you're new here, but save it for a necro-thread. It's been discussed, nobody's mind is going to be changed.

    -Walt
    No disrespect, but it's ALL been discussed.
    This site (like many other forums) could be archived, shut down, and used as a searchable resource. That would certainly limit discussion.
    And ad-revenue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    👍 my parties have slight conversation like, oh shit are we almost out of Jack? And, “let’s fire up the grill.” I’m like an anolog redneck! JK..
    Jack? You need to expand your whiskeyness. Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Some people just thrive on being contrarian, living on the wrong side of the major suck line :-)

    Riding a motor-assisted bike is no different to me than using a chair lift to get to the top of the hill and riding down. I don't ride with a group, never have. I don't go with group-think, never have.
    Why again are people so upset about this new technology?
    Not legal in many areas for one. My trails don't have chairlifts. Start there. Speed differentials too. Most of my riding areas ( MA) are multi use, hikers, kids , dogs etc.

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    Well, I can only drink Jack Fire, beer, and Sailor Jerry and Gingerale, anything else forget it.
    “As a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Is it the speed capability that's the problem, or a concern that the trails will get too crowded when everyone realizes they can ride without effort and they run out to buy one (though it seems the ability to go farther/faster would mitigate that problem)?
    No effort? Hmmm. All those ebikers keep saying I get the same workout with an e bike, but I can go a lot longer distances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Well, I can only drink Jack Fire, beer, and Sailor Jerry and Gingerale, anything else forget it.
    Try this, get some George Dickel #12, another TN whiskey. 1 shot, 1/2 lime, ginger syrup, ginger ale, ice. But safer on a bike, not an e bike. ( not a derail) We could move this to the bourbon area too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    No effort? Hmmm. All those ebikers keep saying I get the same workout with an e bike, but I can go a lot longer distances.
    Maybe they do.
    Who gets more of a workout: the 1x rider who covers three miles in an hour, or the 21x rider who covers 12 miles in the same hour? A lot of variables to be considered.

    On the obverse, what about the e-biker who uses the motor until dead and then calls it a day? They certainly get less exercise than the one who pedal-assists for the same ride.
    Variables.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Maybe they do.
    Who gets more of a workout: the 1x rider who covers three miles in an hour, or the 21x rider who covers 12 miles in the same hour? A lot of variables to be considered.

    On the obverse, what about the e-biker who uses the motor until dead and then calls it a day? They certainly get less exercise than the one who pedal-assists for the same ride.
    Variables.
    21x? Do tell. Sounds fast.


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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Maybe they do.
    Who gets more of a workout: the 1x rider who covers three miles in an hour, or the 21x rider who covers 12 miles in the same hour? A lot of variables to be considered.

    On the obverse, what about the e-biker who uses the motor until dead and then calls it a day? They certainly get less exercise than the one who pedal-assists for the same ride.
    Variables.
    My only pedal assist is gravity. That and coffee. Other than that I'm pedaling always.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Is it the speed capability that's the problem, or a concern that the trails will get too crowded when everyone realizes they can ride without effort and they run out to buy one (though it seems the ability to go farther/faster would mitigate that problem)?
    As mentioned, both of those are very valid concerns and it also comes down to the fact that there is no practical way to regulate the power of the ebikes you intend to let on a given trail. Ebikes with +1500w of power look just like what they call a 250w class 1 ebike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    21x? Do tell. Sounds fast.

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    huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    👍 my parties have slight conversation like, oh shit are we almost out of Jack? And, “let’s fire up the grill.” I’m like an anolog redneck! JK..
    Analog Redneck...I am claiming that as a good name for my new wave/country/elctro-noise band

    Quote Originally Posted by d-ron View Post
    Dude, the preferred nomemclature is acoustic bicycle, juxtaposed with electric bicycle of course.

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    I am going to use this wording...

    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    My only pedal assist is gravity. That and coffee. Other than that I'm pedaling always.
    Same here, but replace coffee with Sobe Life Water
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    huh?
    Do you mean a 7x3? That’s like, really old. And people can average 12 mph on them? Crazy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    huh?
    #x is just referring to the front chainring(s). So 1x has one chainring, 2x has two chainrings, etc. It is not telling you how many cogs are on the cassette. So a 21x would be a bike with twenty one chainrings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    #x is just referring to the front chainring(s). So 1x has one chainring, 2x has two chainrings, etc. It is not telling you how many cogs are on the cassette. So a 21x would be a bike with twenty one chainrings.
    I think motor heads have a tough time with the finer points of self propulsion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    21x? Do tell. Sounds fast.


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    4x as fast it appears.
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    "Single speed versus 21 speed" is what I was trying to convey.
    I'm old school. I didn't know 21 speed setup had been eliminated in biking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    "Single speed versus 21 speed" is what I was trying to convey.
    I'm old school. I didn't know 21 speed setup had been eliminated in biking.
    That doesn’t mean you’re old school. It just means that you’re very, very ignorant about mountain biking.

    Same for your example where a geared MTB rider covers 4x the distance of a SS MTB rider in an hour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    I'm old school. I didn't know 21 speed setup had been eliminated in biking.

    Only since around 1987.
    I brake for stinkbugs

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    My money would be on the single speeder to cover more ground and be faster than the guy on the 21 speed, both being on bicycles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

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    What a pathetic response to a cool post. Ridiculous to see the way "bikers" treat fellow bikers. We went through similar blowback during the hiker vs. biker battles of the late 1980's. I ride my motorcycle(and mtb) a lot and the rudest people on the trails are not hikers, not horse-riders, not casual bikers, not younger generation bikers... it's the hard core 35-55 year-old who think that their opinion matters more than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by str8line View Post
    What a pathetic response to a cool post. Ridiculous to see the way "bikers" treat fellow bikers. We went through similar blowback during the hiker vs. biker battles of the late 1980's. I ride my motorcycle(and mtb) a lot and the rudest people on the trails are not hikers, not horse-riders, not casual bikers, not younger generation bikers... it's the hard core 35-55 year-old who think that their opinion matters more than others.
    Cool story, bro.

    p.s. "bikers"? That's a dead giveaway.

    p.p.s. "ebikers" "bikers" That's what has you confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    Cool story, bro.

    p.s. "bikers"? That's a dead giveaway.

    p.p.s. "ebikers" "bikers" That's what has you confused.
    I don't own an ebike. Am I a different rider if I get one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by str8line View Post
    I don't own an ebike. Am I a different rider if I get one?
    Yes. Short and simple.

    It is classified as a motorized vehicle. They are typically relegated to OHV trails. Just because it looks like a bicycle does not make it one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Yes. Short and simple.

    It is classified as a motorized vehicle. They are typically relegated to OHV trails. Just because it looks like a bicycle does not make it one.

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    Silent Foe. That's deep. You must be really cool. I've known a bunch of self-proclaimed guides over the years. Huge difference between them and a real guide. Real guides are humble.

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    So today I did do an analog ride, 10.5 miles, great to get out in the pine trees a few last times before it starts snowing. It was mostly dirt road but the environment made it fun. Found a little 5 min downhill singletrack on the way back which was nice. But in the future I'll bring my e-bike down that road for sure, to go further and explore more. I originally thought the e-bike would be a scouting bike for new trails/fire roads, and then I'd ride the analog bike in that area. But now it's the other way around, I scout with the analog bike, to pave the way for further e-bike explorations. Weird how that worked out.

    A few notable biker interactions:
    Younger guy was walking his bike up as I went down; when I caught up with him again I asked if his bike was OK. He said yes but pointed to his right pedal. It was gone! He did a nasty pedal strike and it completely sheared off the pedal from his cheap 26".

    2nd interaction --- on the paved road back to the car, three guys go down the 1st dirt road I tried that was a dead-end. I'm like...where are they going? Are they really going to jump the private property fence? I wanted to yell out hey where is the trail down there, but thought better and just biked to my car.

    3rd interaction --- three road bikers. YUCK. Said hello to all three, got one weak hi back. A-holes. I hope they pop their skinny-assed tires, all three of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    That doesn’t mean you’re old school. It just means that you’re very, very ignorant about mountain biking.

    Same for your example where a geared MTB rider covers 4x the distance of a SS MTB rider in an hour.
    I would be happy to hear the explanation to reduce my ignorance.
    Please include empirical data that would clarify the how and why. I learn and understand much better with that than with the "because everyone knows it" type of theory support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    I would be happy to hear the explanation to reduce my ignorance.


    Single speeders are generally among the fastest guys out on the trail, lack of gears definitely doesn't slow them down.
    I brake for stinkbugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I hope they pop their skinny-assed tires, all three of them.

    Even the one who said hi back to you? You need to let go of your hate for roadies, it's bad for your soul.
    I brake for stinkbugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Single speeders are generally among the fastest guys out on the trail, lack of gears definitely doesn't slow them down.
    Oddly, someone posted this in another thread an hour ago: "I haven't averaged over 25 mph on any pedally segment over 2 minutes ever since I ditched my 2x10. My 1x drivetrain holds me back greatly."

    I assume he's using the 1x term properly (unlike me). Maybe he should switch to single speed so he can be faster?

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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post

    3rd interaction --- three road bikers. YUCK. Said hello to all three, got one weak hi back. A-holes. I hope they pop their skinny-assed tires, all three of them.
    I'm waiting to see what str8line thinks of this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    I would be happy to hear the explanation to reduce my ignorance.
    Please include empirical data that would clarify the how and why. I learn and understand much better with that than with the "because everyone knows it" type of theory support.
    See, that's the thing.

    Everyone who rides knows that "the 1x rider who covers three miles in an hour, or the 21x rider who covers 12 miles in the same hour?" is total nonsense.

    The basis premise of the question, that a geared rider would cover 4x the distance in the same amount of time as a SS rider, is just plain dumb.

    As far as empirical data, you can look at any race results if you're truly interested in educating yourself.

    Here's one that is very SS unfriendly. ~27 miles with a ~3600' of climbing (almost all of it front-loaded) and 5,000' of descending.

    Notice that the geared folks did not finish in 25% of the time of the SS folks.

    http://downievilleclassic.com/downie...ts/2018_XC.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Oddly, someone posted this in another thread an hour ago: "I haven't averaged over 25 mph on any pedally segment over 2 minutes ever since I ditched my 2x10. My 1x drivetrain holds me back greatly."

    That's unusual IME. And yes, there's a good chance he'd get faster by spending some time on a ss.
    I brake for stinkbugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    .

    As far as empirical data, you can look at any race results if you're truly interested in educating yourself.

    Exactly, the top single speeders aren't far off from the open pro class.
    I brake for stinkbugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    I would be happy to hear the explanation to reduce my ignorance.
    Please include empirical data that would clarify the how and why. I learn and understand much better with that than with the "because everyone knows it" type of theory support.
    First of all, someone riding a 21 speed bike would be on a very old bicycle so they are probably not an enthusiast whereas single speeders are usually hardcore mountain bikers. And in mountain biking, when you are descending, you often are not pedaling, so it makes no difference. When climbing, someone with gears is probably going to gear down and spin more while the SS has to muscle up with the gear they have, usually a higher gear than the person spinning so the SS climbs faster. If there are a lot of flats and the person on the gear bike is in shape, they would have an advantage but most mountain biking is more ups and downs than flats.

    Picking up my new SS tomorrow!

    (not saying I'm all that fast but still more than likely faster than someone on a 21 speed)
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I'm waiting to see what str8line thinks of this one.


    @Rich,

    That makes you sound judgemental, man. You get upset at "purists" for not liking ebikes, but you critique roadies?

    Also, not every cyclist is focused on saying hello, every time they see another cyclist. I'm friendly, and more importantly, respectful, and say hello even to the dogs I see. If someone doesn't do it back, it doesn't ruin my day, or I don't wish them ill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8line View Post
    Silent Foe. That's deep. You must be really cool. I've known a bunch of self-proclaimed guides over the years. Huge difference between them and a real guide. Real guides are humble.
    I like being a fake guide. I'm the best fake guide ever. Fake guides can be all kinds of brash and over the top. We just make sh!t up as we go. Plus we get to charge extra. Especially for the self-proclaiming, which is not even a real word.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    ...3rd interaction --- three road bikers. YUCK... A-holes. I hope they pop their skinny-assed tires, all three of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post

    @Rich,

    That makes you sound judgemental, man. You get upset at "purists" for not liking ebikes, but you critique roadies?
    Best part is that like 99% of all ebike are used exclusively on the road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    See, that's the thing.

    Everyone who rides knows that "the 1x rider who covers three miles in an hour, or the 21x rider who covers 12 miles in the same hour?" is total nonsense.

    The basis premise of the question, that a geared rider would cover 4x the distance in the same amount of time as a SS rider, is just plain dumb.

    As far as empirical data, you can look at any race results if you're truly interested in educating yourself.

    Here's one that is very SS unfriendly. ~27 miles with a ~3600' of climbing (almost all of it front-loaded) and 5,000' of descending.

    Notice that the geared folks did not finish in 25% of the time of the SS folks.

    http://downievilleclassic.com/downie...ts/2018_XC.pdf
    And there's the rub.
    Earlier int he thread, there were complaints about people who were being accurate in the use of language. I compare two different bikes/rider with and off-the cuff number, and it somehow becomes my "statement of fact" that a person on geared bike might do X miles in a given time while another might do Y miles int he same time.

    To clarify: That part of my post that a rider on a geared bike will do 4x more travel. My statement actually had to do with not taking variables into account when comparing two dissimilar things (such as e-biking and regular biking), NOT an absolute comparison between the two.

    An analogy would be the person who lifts 1,000 pounds of stone using leverage that only presents the weight as 75 pounds has done less work than the person lifting 100 pounds without assistance.

    The person riding the SS for X miles may be doing the same work as the person riding the geared bike for X+Y miles because the gearing gives an advantage. Anyone who states the gearing doesn't provide an advantage would absolutely be the fool (either uneducated or no real experience in simple mechanics).

    As for 21-speed bikes, I know they still exist. Regardless, I will change the reference to any "speed" that makes y'all comfortable. The FACT is that all other factors being equal, a multi speed bike will normally present less work to a rider going point A to B than a single speed unless the are both being ridden on a flat and the final drive ratio is identical between them.
    ("Point A to point B" does not carry with it the discussion of who does it faster, etc. That's one of the variables I mentioned earlier.)

    I will ask this of those who are in the know: If SS bikes are better and faster than multi-geared bikes, why haven't the manufacturers caught on (heck, why have they INCREASED the number of speeds over the years)?
    And why are those maniacs (a term of endearment) who do stuff like RedBull Rampage riding geared bikes? Wouldn't single-speed be far less likely to have mechanical issues due to fewer moving parts in the drivetrain (and be faster like the single-speed riders here)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    3rd interaction --- three road bikers. YUCK. Said hello to all three, got one weak hi back. A-holes. I hope they pop their skinny-assed tires, all three of them.
    JCD and I can beat you on our analog road bikes and not say hi to you while doing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    I will ask this of those who are in the know: If SS bikes are better and faster than multi-geared bikes, why haven't the manufacturers caught on (heck, why have they INCREASED the number of speeds over the years)?
    Those of us who are in the know realize that nobody has claimed that SS bikes "are better and faster than multi-geared bikes."

    That's you making stuff up. Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    And why are those maniacs (a term of endearment) who do stuff like RedBull Rampage riding geared bikes? Wouldn't single-speed be far less likely to have mechanical issues due to fewer moving parts in the drivetrain (and be faster like the single-speed riders here)?
    Have you ever regularly ridden an actual mountain bike? If you have, you would be able to answer your question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I'm waiting to see what str8line thinks of this one.
    I ain't down with assholes. It's ok to wish ill on them. But you need to be certain they are assholes. Like after they ignore you, look them in the eye and yell, "are you an asshole?!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    Those of us who are in the know realize that nobody has claimed that SS bikes "are better and faster than multi-geared bikes."

    That's you making stuff up. Again.

    Have you ever regularly ridden an actual mountain bike? If you have, you would be able to answer your question.
    Making it up? Maybe read the posts in the thread before making a statement like that. Perhaps focus on the ones that state exactly what you claim they don't. Perhaps start with posts #71 and #79.

    My first MTB ride was in 1997. When was yours?
    By the way, my question about why the Rampage riders have geared bikes was more rhetorical than anything, aimed at those who claim single speed is better than geared.

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    I don't know why I'm even responding to this bizarre tangent, but FWIW, the guys in the Rampage run gears because their bikes are set up in such a way that chain growth, to at least some extent, is a side effect of the suspension compressing. You could easily run a single gear on those bikes (there is minimal pedaling involved save for a couple of quick sprints on most runs) but you'd still have to run some form of tensioner and chainguide system to keep the bike from dropping the chain. At that point you might as well just run a derailleur.

    You can build a FS bike with zero chain growth a number of ways but none of them are popular for a variety of reasons (idlers are expensive to build, a bit inefficient, and weird looking, concentric pivots have horrible wheel path and squat, etc).

    I do plenty of DH runs on the big bike where I never shift, though. In theory SS would be fantastic for a lot of gravity riding.

    -Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Making it up? Maybe read the posts in the thread before making a statement like that. Perhaps focus on the ones that state exactly what you claim they don't. Perhaps start with posts #71 and #79.
    Are you just playing or are you truly that dense?

    Those folks in #71 and #79 did not claim that "SS bikes are better and faster than geared bikes."

    Rather, they noted something that is common knowledge among folks that actually have some mountain biking experience:

    Most SS riders are stronger and more fit than the average rider on a geared bike. It's the nature of the beast.

    The fact that you can't understand this basic fact speaks volumes about your mountain biking experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    My first MTB ride was in 1997. When was yours?
    My first MTB ride on a real MTB was in 1986.

    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    By the way, my question about why the Rampage riders have geared bikes was more rhetorical than anything, aimed at those who claim single speed is better than geared.
    Again, that claim only exists in your imagination. Nobody has made that claim.

    Maybe you can find someone to help you with your reading comprehension challenges?

    p.s. "(heck, why have they INCREASED the number of speeds over the years)?" They haven't increased the number of speeds over the years. They have actually decreased.

    In the 80's I had 18 speeds, in the 90's 21, 24, then 27, in the 00's 27, then 18, in the 10's 20, now 12.

    Lower end $1k MTBs are typically 18 speed, get above $1.5k they are generally 11 or 12 speed.

    Again, your uninformed claim speaks volumes about your lack of experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    You can build a FS bike with zero chain growth a number of ways but none of them are popular for a variety of reasons (idlers are expensive to build, a bit inefficient, and weird looking, concentric pivots have horrible wheel path and squat, etc).
    I heard that all the Red Bull riders are going to be on URTs next year so they can run SS because it's the best and fastest setup for mountain biking.

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    Maybe if I get a 100 speed bike I'll be 100x faster than a single speeder?



    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Making it up? Maybe read the posts in the thread before making a statement like that. Perhaps focus on the ones that state exactly what you claim they don't. Perhaps start with posts #71 and #79.
    If you don't agree with post(s) 71 and 79 then it's clear you haven't been on many rides with ss mountain bikers. Again, check some race results if you aren't convinced.
    I brake for stinkbugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Making it up? Maybe read the posts in the thread before making a statement like that. Perhaps focus on the ones that state exactly what you claim they don't. Perhaps start with posts #71 and #79.

    My first MTB ride was in 1997. When was yours?
    By the way, my question about why the Rampage riders have geared bikes was more rhetorical than anything, aimed at those who claim single speed is better than geared.
    I have a feeling you quit riding some time shortly after 1997 as your knowledge of mountain bikes and mountain biking is very outdated. A lot has changed, a whole lot. I started in '94, quit in '99 and then restarted in 2006. I would suggest you hang out, read a lot and ride a lot before posting just based on how things were twenty years ago and on subjects you know little about. If you don't understand something, post a question in the beginners forum rather than boastful ones like your Rampage comparison to a bunch of experienced riders.

    I agree with you about ss and gears when looked at in terms of physics. This is also why ebiking and cycling are not the same sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    I heard that all the Red Bull riders are going to be on URTs next year so they can run SS because it's the best and fastest setup for mountain biking.
    A vintage-category Red Bull would be kind of awesome, actually. I can bring my LTS-team with the sweet Judy XL that I raced DH on in the 90s. 80mm of travel up front, Magura hydro (rim) brakes, it was siiiiick...

    Of course, my bones are a lot easier to break than when I was 20, and 40 year old me isn't quite so brave, so that might be a bit of a problem.

    -W

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