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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    One more time, Robb - what does this have to do with e-bikes? It must at *some* point have had some bearing on Rich's post about riding his e-bike more than his normal bike, yes?

    -Walt
    At first, his argument was if people were against e-bikes because people riding them would typically cover more ground at a faster pace than people on real bikes, then people should also be against geared bikes because he hypothesized that people with gears would typically cover more ground at a faster pace than people on SS bikes. 4x was the number thrown out.
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  2. #202
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    Ah, got it. What a truly bizarre argument. I can be against something that makes a bike faster without being against *everything* that makes a bike faster (ie, pneumatic tires, freewheels, etc). Being opposed to motorized bikes on no-motor trails doesn't mean you have to exclusively support wood-tired unicycle access.

    But ok. At least I (sort of) see where this came from now.

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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Perhaps Chazpat can explain his reasoning
    On a relatively flat surface, with some inclines/declines that a rider can get momentum down on the way back up, a singlespeed is generally faster than a geared bike. Because it's lighter and the rider is probably stronger on the singlespeed simply by riding it. If you get into hills though it becomes a very different story. I've seen exactly one singlespeed bike go down a hill, and he was basically at the bottom by the time I realized what he was on. I don't know if he actually tried to pedal up the hill or not, but I assume not, because he was geared pretty high.

    Personally I don't understand the attraction to them but to each their own. I don't see a lot of anti-singlespeed trolls going into that forum like the anti-ebikers do here.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I agree with you about ss and gears when looked at in terms of physics. This is also why ebiking and cycling are not the same sport.
    ebiking is more analogous to a young XC racer riding a MTB. So no, that XC racer is not exactly the same as a regular rider on a trail bike. But in the scheme of things, eMTB is the same sport as MTB, because XC racer on a MTB is mountain biking imho. Me on my eMTB like me being my 25 year old XC racer self again, but aged 51 (and, BTW, with open heart surgery scheduled for next year).

    SS, trail, rigid antique XC race bike, lift-assist DH bike, offroad unicycle, class 1/2 eMTB, it is all just MTB.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    On a relatively flat surface, with some inclines/declines that a rider can get momentum down on the way back up, a singlespeed is generally faster than a geared bike. Because it's lighter and the rider is probably stronger on the singlespeed simply by riding it. If you get into hills though it becomes a very different story. I've seen exactly one singlespeed bike go down a hill, and he was basically at the bottom by the time I realized what he was on. I don't know if he actually tried to pedal up the hill or not, but I assume not, because he was geared pretty high.

    Why does it become a different story when you get to the hills?
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCsaltchucker View Post
    ebiking is more analogous to a young XC racer riding a MTB. So no, that XC racer is not exactly the same as a regular rider on a trail bike. But in the scheme of things, eMTB is the same sport as MTB, because XC racer on a MTB is mountain biking imho. Me on my eMTB like me being my 25 year old XC racer self again, but aged 51 (and, BTW, with open heart surgery scheduled for next year).

    SS, trail, rigid antique XC race bike, lift-assist DH bike, offroad unicycle, class 1/2 eMTB, it is all just MTB.
    The results may be similar but you could say the same thing about a dirt bike with that kind of reasoning. People age in all sports. That's why they have a master class in racing.

    55 btw. Hope your open heart surgery goes well. Enjoy your ebike but please just ride it where it is legal.
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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    On a relatively flat surface, with some inclines/declines that a rider can get momentum down on the way back up, a singlespeed is generally faster than a geared bike. Because it's lighter and the rider is probably stronger on the singlespeed simply by riding it. If you get into hills though it becomes a very different story.
    So you've determined this by crossing paths with exactly one SS rider in your life, who you only saw on a descent?

    I guess it would make sense to defer to your opinion then, given your vast experience on the subject.

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  8. #208
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    Iíve ridden with many SS riders and obviously they are very strong and stand quite a bit more. They are like stealth trail ninjaís- freakishly fast. Itís been my experience, that most rip hardtails.
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  9. #209
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    I've always found I get more momentum going down big hills than small inclines. Weird.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    On a relatively flat surface, with some inclines/declines that a rider can get momentum down on the way back up, a singlespeed is generally faster than a geared bike. Because it's lighter and the rider is probably stronger on the singlespeed simply by riding it. If you get into hills though it becomes a very different story. I've seen exactly one singlespeed bike go down a hill, and he was basically at the bottom by the time I realized what he was on. I don't know if he actually tried to pedal up the hill or not, but I assume not, because he was geared pretty high.

    Personally I don't understand the attraction to them but to each their own. I don't see a lot of anti-singlespeed trolls going into that forum like the anti-ebikers do here.
    One of the guys in my group rides SS, and you know what is like in SoCal. He is younger but he is a beast on that thing, also its rigid. Everyone else in the group is geared but he is usually one of the top 3 guys up the hill.

    I tried it, but no way I'm in shape for that.
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  11. #211
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    Rich inspired me to buy an e-bike. I read his best-selling book on cycling.

    Here it is!




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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    55 btw. Hope your open heart surgery goes well. Enjoy your ebike but please just ride it where it is legal.
    valve defect they discovered. causing enlargement etc

    ride where it is legal? Weird inappropriate comment. Why don't you just ride where MTB is legal, dude.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCsaltchucker View Post
    valve defect they discovered. causing enlargement etc

    ride where it is legal? Weird inappropriate comment. Why don't you just ride where MTB is legal, dude.
    Sorry, didn't mean to insult you in any way. I guess I was just trying to say I'm ok with ebikes where they are currently allowed. I just don't think they are bicycles nor that they should be allowed everywhere bicycles are allowed for reasons I have outlined many times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCsaltchucker View Post
    ebiking is more analogous to a young XC racer riding a MTB. So no, that XC racer is not exactly the same as a regular rider on a trail bike. But in the scheme of things, eMTB is the same sport as MTB, because XC racer on a MTB is mountain biking imho. Me on my eMTB like me being my 25 year old XC racer self again, but aged 51 (and, BTW, with open heart surgery scheduled for next year).

    SS, trail, rigid antique XC race bike, lift-assist DH bike, offroad unicycle, class 1/2 eMTB, it is all just MTB.
    One of these has a motor. Mt bikes don't have motors. Start there.

  15. #215
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    I think I understand now, IME cycling is more fun when you have plenty of power on tap and not so fun when you don't, It's a great feeling to motor up a hill and still feel strong at the top, and to feel fresh and invigorated after a couple of hard hours on the bike instead of dusted and done.

    I ride a fair amount and am stronger on a bike than most riders, I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging but it's just a fact. When riding with other people who aren't as fit I can tell that they're definitely suffering more than me and consequently maybe not enjoying the ride as much. It's harder to have fun and be in the moment when you're dreading the next climb.

    An ebike solves these problems without a time consuming and bothersome training schedule. Anyone can instantly feel how it feels to have as much (or more) power than Peter Sagan, and without having to suffer as much for it. 8 vs. 15mph is a huge difference on a bike, 8mph can feel like a plodding pace whereas 15 feels like you're really moving and can make an otherwise boring trail a lot more exciting.

    So IMO the reason Rich's analogue bike is in existential crisis is purely due to lack of watts. It's all about power and I have a feeling that most bicycles gather dust because their motor is lacking, and a weak motor makes cycling less fun. I think more people will replace their bicycles with ebikes in the future.
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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think I understand now, IME cycling is more fun when you have plenty of power on tap and not so fun when you don't, It's a great feeling to motor up a hill and still feel strong at the top, and to feel fresh and invigorated after a couple of hard hours on the bike instead of dusted and done.

    I ride a fair amount and am stronger on a bike than most riders, I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging but it's just a fact. When riding with other people who aren't as fit I can tell that they're definitely suffering more than me and consequently maybe not enjoying the ride as much. It's harder to have fun and be in the moment when you're dreading the next climb.

    An ebike solves these problems without a time consuming and bothersome training schedule. Anyone can instantly feel how it feels to have as much (or more) power than Peter Sagan, and without having to suffer as much for it. 8 vs. 15mph is a huge difference on a bike, 8mph can feel like a plodding pace whereas 15 feels like you're really moving and can make an otherwise boring trail a lot more exciting.

    So IMO the reason Rich's analogue bike is in existential crisis is purely due to lack of watts. It's all about power and I have a feeling that most bicycles gather dust because their motor is lacking, and a weak motor makes cycling less fun. I think more people will replace their bicycles with ebikes in the future.
    Agree. That and itís just a same, but different sport. I think a lot of ebikers that used to ride moto and Mtb enjoy them. Itís like a blend.
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  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    One of these has a motor. Mt bikes don't have motors. Start there.
    last time I checks, no MTB can effect forward motion without some kind of 'motor' propelling it

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I just don't think they are bicycles nor that they should be allowed everywhere bicycles are allowed for reasons I have outlined many times.
    I can agree with that. eMTB don't belong where the trails are really flat. Around here they're steep as F and eMTB allowed everywhere MTB are, like most of the globe. One exception is at private ski hills, where they make money lift-assisting riders.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCsaltchucker View Post
    last time I checks, no MTB can effect forward motion without some kind of 'motor' propelling it


    Lots of ebikes can be propelled with a twist throttle and I'm ok with that. Pedal assist is just a different type of throttle imo.
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  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think I understand now, IME cycling is more fun when you have plenty of power on tap and not so fun when you don't, It's a great feeling to motor up a hill and still feel strong at the top, and to feel fresh and invigorated after a couple of hard hours on the bike instead of dusted and done.

    I ride a fair amount and am stronger on a bike than most riders, I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging but it's just a fact. When riding with other people who aren't as fit I can tell that they're definitely suffering more than me and consequently maybe not enjoying the ride as much. It's harder to have fun and be in the moment when you're dreading the next climb.

    An ebike solves these problems without a time consuming and bothersome training schedule. Anyone can instantly feel how it feels to have as much (or more) power than Peter Sagan, and without having to suffer as much for it. 8 vs. 15mph is a huge difference on a bike, 8mph can feel like a plodding pace whereas 15 feels like you're really moving and can make an otherwise boring trail a lot more exciting.

    So IMO the reason Rich's analogue bike is in existential crisis is purely due to lack of watts. It's all about power and I have a feeling that most bicycles gather dust because their motor is lacking, and a weak motor makes cycling less fun. I think more people will replace their bicycles with ebikes in the future.
    I replaced my commuter bike with an eBike because I canít tolerate shock and my mountain bike was too slow - my 150 watts gets me 12 mph on the mountain bike but the Electric mountain bike gives me 15 to 20 mph depending on how I set the assist. I know what itís like to be fit but it just isnít possible for me. Iíve ridden e-bikes legally on my local trails and the biggest difference is that once again Iím riding to the trail head.

    On a steep grade the E-Bike doesnít get me much more speed - 50 watts per mile per hour on a 10 percent grade means 13 mph with me and the bike together, but without the electric assist Iíd be going 3mph, which is just barely making it up the hill.

    One time I climbed 3300 feet and 15 miles in 75 minutes, but that was 35 years ago when my joints were healthy. No chance of that happening again.

  21. #221
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    This is why I keep coming back to MTBR.


    To the OP, how do you know it isn't just exciting cause it is the new thing? How do you know the novelty won't just wear off and you get bored of the same trails? Not an argument for or against e-bikes.

    Also analog bike is official the dumbest thing I have heard on here and that is really saying something.

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    It's pretty stupid how all these ebikers are basing their opinions on things like riding experience. The true ebike experience is whatever the mountain bikers who don't ride ebikes say it is, duh. I was going to ride my ebike today, but instead decided to check in on mtbr.com to see how my ride was.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think I understand now, IME cycling is more fun when you have plenty of power on tap and not so fun when you don't, It's a great feeling to motor up a hill and still feel strong at the top, and to feel fresh and invigorated after a couple of hard hours on the bike instead of dusted and done.

    I ride a fair amount and am stronger on a bike than most riders, I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging but it's just a fact. When riding with other people who aren't as fit I can tell that they're definitely suffering more than me and consequently maybe not enjoying the ride as much. It's harder to have fun and be in the moment when you're dreading the next climb.

    An ebike solves these problems without a time consuming and bothersome training schedule. Anyone can instantly feel how it feels to have as much (or more) power than Peter Sagan, and without having to suffer as much for it. 8 vs. 15mph is a huge difference on a bike, 8mph can feel like a plodding pace whereas 15 feels like you're really moving and can make an otherwise boring trail a lot more exciting.

    So IMO the reason Rich's analogue bike is in existential crisis is purely due to lack of watts. It's all about power and I have a feeling that most bicycles gather dust because their motor is lacking, and a weak motor makes cycling less fun. I think more people will replace their bicycles with ebikes in the future.

    Yes, it's about climbing most of all. When I look at my average watts without e-power it's 80-90. Climbing maybe it's 120. The top ten climbers on these level 4 hills that are in roughly 1/2 the places I go average around 160-225 watts. Their extrapolated heart rate is around 160-180 BPM, which is a lot if they are over 45. They are really in shape. I bike to have fun, not to get the most intense aerobic workout possible. I've also noticed on all bikes that if you get in a good 90-120 minute ride with some hills (analog or e-bike), you get the same endorphin rush at the end that you do with an intense 30 minute aerobic workout at the gym anyway. Same difference.

    It's also about exploring more area in the same amount of time. Unless you are in really good shape, it's not easy to climb 1250 feet up and down twice in two hours and do it at a casual pace (I did that Sunday, two separate hills). With an e-bike, you can do it. Hikers and bikepackers may end up loving them later for this reason.
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  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
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    This is why I keep coming back to MTBR.


    To the OP, how do you know it isn't just exciting cause it is the new thing? How do you know the novelty won't just wear off and you get bored of the same trails? Not an argument for or against e-bikes.

    Also analog bike is official the dumbest thing I have heard on here and that is really saying something.

    I know it's exciting because I don't follow trends. If I followed trends I'd also have a plus bike and a full-suspension bike by now. Oh and a 15 lb road bike, and lycra, and all of that other crap. And let's not forget the trendiest of them all: gravel bikes. That ain't me buddy. E-bikes are not 'the trend' on MTBR, they are the anti-trend. The majority of the older riders here do not like them, if you have not read the 10,000 posts criticizing them.

    Maybe the novelty will wear off. Until then, I have about 3000 miles of unexplored fire roads and trails to seek out in the dark corners of the county. And I guarantee you I will have a lot more fun on a fire road with an e-bike than with a normal bike. Riding an e-bike is like rediscovering biking all over again, it's a different level. If someone is perfectly happy on their normal bike, good for them. If not, they know what to try.

    I agree that the term analog bike is dumb. I prefer to call them pedal bikes but that's not a common term. But don't worry, I'll continue to say dumb things for your entertainment lol.

  25. #225
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    Rich, what kind of ebike do you have?

    And what's with the hate for gravel?
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  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I know it's exciting because I don't follow trends.

    That doesn't make sense. Also ebikes are about as trendy as it gets in the cycling world right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    But don't worry, I'll continue to say dumb things for your entertainment
    The dumb things you post aren't entertainment, at best they're just really confused and sad. At worst, some other poor newb might believe your dumb stuff.

    More dumb things:
    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    If I followed trends I'd also have a plus bike and a full-suspension bike by now. Oh and a 15 lb road bike, and lycra, and all of that other crap.
    Not trends:

    -FS bikes
    -15lb road bikes
    -lycra


    trend


    A trend is what's hip or popular at a certain point in time. While a trend usually refers to a certain style in fashion or entertainment, there could be a trend toward warmer temperatures (if people are following trends associated with global warming).
    A trend simply reflects what seems to be going around at any given time. A trend can be in any area and doesn't only reflect fashion, pop culture and entertainment. There can also be a trend in the stock market to be bullish or bearish, depending on economic indicators, or a political trend reflecting a nationís current mood. Some trends are fun, some fabulous, some appalling, but however long they last, you can be sure there will always be a new trend coming along to replace the old.




  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I don't follow trends.

    I agree that the term analog bike is dumb. I prefer to call them pedal bikes but that's not a common term.


    So you don't follow trends and you think calling a bicycle "analog" is dumb but you do so anyway because that is the trend. Got it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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    JB, your post is hysterical, way to spell it out

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think I understand now, IME cycling is more fun when you have plenty of power on tap and not so fun when you don't, It's a great feeling to motor up a hill and still feel strong at the top, and to feel fresh and invigorated after a couple of hard hours on the bike instead of dusted and done.

    I ride a fair amount and am stronger on a bike than most riders, I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging but it's just a fact. When riding with other people who aren't as fit I can tell that they're definitely suffering more than me and consequently maybe not enjoying the ride as much. It's harder to have fun and be in the moment when you're dreading the next climb.

    An ebike solves these problems without a time consuming and bothersome training schedule. Anyone can instantly feel how it feels to have as much (or more) power than Peter Sagan, and without having to suffer as much for it. 8 vs. 15mph is a huge difference on a bike, 8mph can feel like a plodding pace whereas 15 feels like you're really moving and can make an otherwise boring trail a lot more exciting.

    So IMO the reason Rich's analogue bike is in existential crisis is purely due to lack of watts. It's all about power and I have a feeling that most bicycles gather dust because their motor is lacking, and a weak motor makes cycling less fun. I think more people will replace their bicycles with ebikes in the future.
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  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I know it's exciting because I don't follow trends. If I followed trends I'd also have a plus bike and a full-suspension bike by now. Oh and a 15 lb road bike, and lycra, and all of that other crap. And let's not forget the trendiest of them all: gravel bikes. That ain't me buddy. E-bikes are not 'the trend' on MTBR, they are the anti-trend. The majority of the older riders here do not like them, if you have not read the 10,000 posts criticizing them.

    Maybe the novelty will wear off. Until then, I have about 3000 miles of unexplored fire roads and trails to seek out in the dark corners of the county. And I guarantee you I will have a lot more fun on a fire road with an e-bike than with a normal bike. Riding an e-bike is like rediscovering biking all over again, it's a different level. If someone is perfectly happy on their normal bike, good for them. If not, they know what to try.

    I agree that the term analog bike is dumb. I prefer to call them pedal bikes but that's not a common term. But don't worry, I'll continue to say dumb things for your entertainment lol.
    I didn't new as in a trend but rather as in new to you.

    But I don't know lycra or full suspension is a trend since they have been around for quite a while.

    As far as the analog thing, why not just e-bike and call a regular bike, a bike?
    Last edited by 93EXCivic; 1 Week Ago at 08:55 AM.

  31. #231
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    My road bike is actually 16 lbs and lycra has its use for road cycling
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  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I know it's exciting because I don't follow trends. If I followed trends I'd also have a plus bike and a full-suspension bike by now.

    ...But don't worry, I'll continue to say dumb things for your entertainment lol.
    Your following the ebike trend, so yes, you obviously follow trends. Ebikes are one of the trendiest items for older and retired adults right now. Have anything else stupid to say for our entertainment?


    ďChina is leading the way in the e-bike trend, with 47.6 million e-bikes expected to have been sold worldwide in 2018. But riders and manufacturers in Europe and the U.S. are hopping on this trend, too.Ē

    Why E-Bikes Are A Trend Worth Watching ‚Äď Deborah Weinswig
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    Just to beat up on you a little more RichÖ

    I've seen you mock riders with "skinny" tires less than 2.4 as you bought wider and wider tires and now you're turning up your nose at plus bikes. Seems you have a range of about 3/8s of an inch that you find acceptable for mountain biking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  34. #234
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
    Reputation: noapathy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Just to beat up on you a little more RichÖ

    I've seen you mock riders with "skinny" tires less than 2.4 as you bought wider and wider tires and now you're turning up your nose at plus bikes. Seems you have a range of about 3/8s of an inch that you find acceptable for mountain biking.
    Anything else would be uncivilized.

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