XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Cool-blue Rhythm XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette

    No 10-42t makes XTR M9000 a loser for me.

    Okay, Shimano doesn't really understand 1x yet.
    Or perhaps they do but are too stubborn to suck it up and follow SRAM.

    Fine, whateverz.

    Aaaanyways, I highly prefer Shimano shifters and derailleurs.... what are the chances XTR 11-speed cassettes will have the same cog spacing as XX1?

    XTR derailleur/shifter + X01 cogs (because they are bad ass black)

    Will it work?
    Let's start speculation yapping and rumor mongering.

  2. #2
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    Fake Rumor #1 - Mechanical XTR M9000 will not be be compatible with XX1 cogs but M9000 Di2 will be reprogrammable.

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    Fake Rumor #2 - Jtek will introduce a Shiftmate cable pull adapter to allow XTR M9000 to work with XX1 cogs.

  4. #4
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    bump

  5. #5
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    And does a xx1 derailleur works with the xtr 11 speed cassett?

  6. #6
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    Bumpitybumpbump

    Quote Originally Posted by aosty View Post
    bump
    How come I didn't see this earlier and just what are you trying to accomplish my good lad?

  7. #7
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    Hi Jmac!

  8. #8
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    No SS for me now, can we still be friends? :@

  9. #9
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    I have ordered XTR M9000 for my Specialized S-Works Stumpjumper HT. I will run a Wolftooth 34T chain ring and the M9000 11T - 40T cassette. All the range I need for Central Oregon trails. I like how the cassette will fit on my existing hub.

    FWIW I have been using XTR 1x10 with a 32T chainring and a 11T - 36T cassette w/o any problems. The 11 speed will just give a larger range with no downside.

  10. #10
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Side View Post
    I have ordered XTR M9000 for my Specialized S-Works Stumpjumper HT. I will run a Wolftooth 34T chain ring and the M9000 11T - 40T cassette. All the range I need for Central Oregon trails. I like how the cassette will fit on my existing hub.

    FWIW I have been using XTR 1x10 with a 32T chainring and a 11T - 36T cassette w/o any problems. The 11 speed will just give a larger range with no downside.
    So doesn't require an XD type driver? Any idea if a DT 240 will accept the cassette?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    So doesn't require an XD type driver? Any idea if a DT 240 will accept the cassette?
    XTR M9000 does not need a new cassette driver.... advantage is no hub changes needed.

    XD driver (XX1/X01) is available for DT240.... advantage is 10t cog.

  12. #12
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    So back to the OP, does anyone know yet if the xtr 11 speed shifter/rear mech will work with xx1 cassette?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbs View Post
    So back to the OP, does anyone know yet if the xtr 11 speed shifter/rear mech will work with xx1 cassette?
    Me thynx the OP should buy the stuff and see!

  14. #14
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    The OP hasn't seen the stuff in the wild yet.

  15. #15
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    I was asking a similar question myself….I wonder if you could use a XO (10 sp), XO1 shifter and an XTR cassette? I was wondering because I foresee a XT 40-11 cassette sooner than a 1170 type.

    There just is not much room for things to go once you'e gotten to 11 speeds and we know that an XO (10 sp) will handle 40t like a champ. 11sp SRAM, Shimano and Campy work just fine right?

  16. #16
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    I'm wondering about this too....XTR11 shifter, XTR11 Rmech, XX1 cassette - you get a bigger range, the cassette is 70g lighter, clears mud better and should last longer.

    I think the sprocket spacing is the same on both systems, so the questions would be:

    1) Can the XTR11 rear mech go far enough out to line up with the 10T XX1 sprocket?

    2) Can it cope with the extra 2 teeth over an 11-40 XTR cassette?

    Looks like the release of M9000 has been delayed until mid-Oct so we probably won't find out until then.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimification View Post
    I'm wondering about this too....XTR11 shifter, XTR11 Rmech, XX1 cassette - you get a bigger range, the cassette is 70g lighter, clears mud better and should last longer.

    I think the sprocket spacing is the same on both systems, so the questions would be:

    1) Can the XTR11 rear mech go far enough out to line up with the 10T XX1 sprocket?

    2) Can it cope with the extra 2 teeth over an 11-40 XTR cassette?

    Looks like the release of M9000 has been delayed until mid-Oct so we probably won't find out until then.
    i read somewhere that the 11sp shimano has the same spacing as a 10sp and uses a 10 sp chain. The 11th cog is dished 2mm over towards the spokes to make it fit. Sram 11 sp uses a narrower spacing/chain than 10sp.

    10t? Shimano Capreo / Canfield Microdrive and that Leonardi cassette went down to 9t.

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    ^ There are reasons why Sram onky went to 10, as friction really becomes apparent once you get smaller than 10.....well, below 11 really but the increase was too much after 10. This is something trackies know a lot about, and goes into the cog choices for front and back. They try and put something no smaller than a 14 on the back if possible.
    Rimmer - "There's an old human saying - if you talk garbage, expect pain"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRandall View Post
    ^ There are reasons why Sram onky went to 10, as friction really becomes apparent once you get smaller than 10.....well, below 11 really but the increase was too much after 10. This is something trackies know a lot about, and goes into the cog choices for front and back. They try and put something no smaller than a 14 on the back if possible.
    According to the Bike radar article the 9t caused a polygon effect, pulsing at the pedals. Even the 10t supposedly needed a special cut to the teeth to mitigate the feeling.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratt View Post
    i read somewhere that the 11sp shimano has the same spacing as a 10sp and uses a 10 sp chain. The 11th cog is dished 2mm over towards the spokes to make it fit. Sram 11 sp uses a narrower spacing/chain than 10sp.

    10t? Shimano Capreo / Canfield Microdrive and that Leonardi cassette went down to 9t.
    As i understand it (based on explanation that it is possible because at higher diameters spokes are further away from the freehub) - the 11sp Shimano is wider than 10sp but fits 10sp freehub - i.e. the 11th cog sits "above" the end of the freehub, but sprocket spacing wise - they are different to 10sp.
    Also - i found at least one report that Ultegra Di2 derailleur works with X01 cassette just fine - which would indicate spacing of 1sp Shimano matches SRAM

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimification View Post
    I'm wondering about this too....XTR11 shifter, XTR11 Rmech, XX1 cassette - you get a bigger range, the cassette is 70g lighter, clears mud better and should last longer.

    I think the sprocket spacing is the same on both systems, so the questions would be:

    1) Can the XTR11 rear mech go far enough out to line up with the 10T XX1 sprocket?

    2) Can it cope with the extra 2 teeth over an 11-40 XTR cassette?

    Looks like the release of M9000 has been delayed until mid-Oct so we probably won't find out until then.
    See First Impressions: Shimano XTR Di2 & Mechanical Mountain Bike Groups for Damie's report - he uses Ultegra Di2 11sp mech with X01 cassette.

    As far as your questions go:
    1) I believe the size difference between 10 and 11 cogs is negligable - and even if it was bigger, on high gears the chain is loose, so even if the cage was further, this shouldnt be an issue (if my understanding is correct)

    2) See all the manufacturers of 42t cog extensions (Wolf, OneUp, General Lee) - thy all claim 42t works fine with most of the shifters (on 50% of Shimano models you need a longer B-screw). So i would assume XTR would not be any different - if road XTR works, trail XTR should probably too).

    Anyways thats the option i am most likely going to try. I am also tempted by 10 speed 42t cassette, but the smallest cog would be 11t only - so this would reduce the range of the drivetrain even more.

  22. #22
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    10t does in fact lose a lot of efficiency to friction compared to 11t (and 11t is poor compared to 12t).

    But for most mtb riders, the 10t will typically be used in lighter pedaling situations (slight downhills, etc.) where wind resistance and other factors will likely trump this issue.
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    @kosmo - yes, i am aware - but i am not a racer, my most frequent rides is steep trails up, then nice trail/gravel dovn ..
    i dont even remember when was it last time i used 44t ring on my old bike, 34x11 was also very rare.
    I want to have 10T as kind of a minimal improvement (5kmh delta at cadence 150) for rare cases of road descent. I would survive with 11t, but if there is a better option, then i want to try it. Worst case it will cost me some money (sell XX1, get shimano freehub).

  24. #24
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    ^^^ Agreed, and sorry for the derail. I'm with you, in that I'd like Shimano shifter/derailleur/chain paired with the 10/42 gearing of the SRAM cassette.

    In fact, when the first XTR bike shows up at my LBS in October, there are about 5 of us waiting to slap a XX1 equipped rear wheel into it and see how it shifts!
    Whining is not a strategy.

  25. #25
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    Btw - on the tangent - i realize Shimano could never bring cassette with 10t cog, as this would not fit into the current hyperglide freehubs. The only option seems to be using DR (hell would freeze first) - or they would introduce their own system.
    I can rather imagine they would go for larger cogs on the opposite side to compensate.

  26. #26
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    ^^^ I'm still hoping Shimano comes to their senses and releases XT cassettes in 11-42!
    Whining is not a strategy.

  27. #27
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    Here's a crazy idea...
    Has anyone looked at a different diameter pulley for the XX1/X01 to get a different cable pull ratio so the rear mech would work w/ a 10spd Shimano shifter? Seems like a pretty low hanging fruit, or am I missing something?

    Edit: rethunk this...not nearly so simple.

  28. #28
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    So far nobody has given a measurement that I've seen for either Shimano or Sram 11 speed MTB cassette spacing, so IMHO it's all hearsay and wild surmise so far.

    What we do know:
    1. All the road 11 speed systems use the same sprocket spacing, and wheels can be interchanged
    2. Sram 10 speed road and MTB derailleurs use the same cable pull, but XX1 is different, and not compatible; I have no idea if 11 speed Sram road stuff is compatible in any way with their 10 speed road stuff
    3. Shimano 10 and 11 speed road cable pull is significantly different and RDs cannot be interchanged
    4. Shimano 10 speed road and MTB cassettes use the same spacing, but the cable pull for road and MTB 10 speed derailleurs is incompatible
    5. Rumour has it that XX1 works okay with 10 speed rear wheels, implying it uses 10 speed spacing, but with an extra cog cantilevered out over the spokes
    6. XTR 11 speed cassettes fit on 8/9/10 speed bodies, but cog spacing is unknown as yet. I'm hoping it's the same as 11 speed road, and that cable pull for Shimano 11 speed road and MTB is the same - unlikely!

    Until we can measure and/or play with these things the only option is baseless speculation...

  29. #29
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    It works fine according to a recent mtbr member post.

  30. #30
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    ^ Yep, according to this post #159

    http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-sh...-899297-7.html

    Very good news for drivetrain tinkerers and anyone who wants to customize their builds for the best set-up they might need/prefer.

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    I'm less concerned with 40T vs 42T. What I want to know is, if I buy xtr cassette, shifter and derailleur, can I use existing xt 2x10 crank arms and what chain ring would I need to go 1x11. Also, will sram X11 X01 cranks be compatible with xtr? I read earlier in this thread xtr 1x11 may use 10 speed chain so that might effect crank and chainring options?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by oaklandish View Post
    ^ Yep, according to this post #159

    http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-sh...-899297-7.html

    Very good news for drivetrain tinkerers and anyone who wants to customize their builds for the best set-up they might need/prefer.

    Sweet!

    Slightly better link to post... http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-sh...l#post11461738

  33. #33
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    $244 delivered is what a few locals paid for the M9000 rear D and right trigger after the good news of the XX1 cassette being compatible.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    $244 delivered is what a few locals paid for the M9000 rear D and right trigger after the good news of the XX1 cassette being compatible.

    From where and have they shipped or received yet?

    Thanks.

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    If I were to order the Shimano to go 1x11 with X01 Cassette, should I go gs or sgs?

  36. #36
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    GS derailleur

  37. #37
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    I'm very happy to hear the spacing is the same. I also love the range and gear ratios provided by the XX1/XO1 cassette, but I MUCH prefer my previous XTR shifter and derailleur vs my current XO1. I have messed around with my shifter setup constantly since getting the XO1 group, and I just can't get it to feel as natural and comfortable as my previous XTR M980 shifter. I even thought about trying to modify the thumb lever on the XO1 shifter to allow easier access to the downshift lever. Now that it seems to be confirmed that the two systems are compatible as soon as I can get my hands on the new XTR bits the XO1 shifter and rear derailleur are coming off.

  38. #38
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    Anyone else has tried it? Or New thought of how it´s been working on a longer test?

  39. #39
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    Handful on the forum reporting perfect shifting.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by aosty View Post
    From where and have they shipped or received yet?

    Thanks.
    Very interested to know that also.

    @westin: thanks for the reply, but do you refer to other threads or this one (I´ve read completely)

  41. #41
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    One of the riders using XTR derailleur and shifter with XX1 cassette: New 2015 Shimano XTR 1x11 - Page 7- Mtbr.com

    Quote Originally Posted by artishouk View Post
    Very interested to know that also.

    @westin: thanks for the reply, but do you refer to other threads or this one (I´ve read completely)

  42. #42
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    Did a quick test in the stand today with a demo bike with an X01 cassette w/ XTR shifter/derailleur. Shifted through the gears no problem, didn't even have to adjust the limit screws or B-tension. Guessing based on the link above shifts fine under load no problem too but hoping to test it for my self in the next week or so. Shimano shifting with SRAM range would be a pretty sweet set-up.

  43. #43
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    XTR 11 speed with XX1

    I am currently running the new XTR with SRAM and it works flawlessly and super crisp!
    My setup:
    XX1 crank
    XX1 chain
    X01 cassette
    XTR M9000 RD (GS cage)
    XTR M9000 shifter
    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-20141205_081616-1024x576-.jpgXTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-20141205_081719-1024x576-.jpg

  44. #44
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    Wow nice setup.

  45. #45
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    S works crank, wolftooth dm 30t ring, kmc 10sp chain, xx1 cassette and xtr gs & shifter. Perfection.

  46. #46
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    mounted rear derailleur shifter + cassette sram x01.
    it seems that everything is working fine.
    field test tomorrow.

  47. #47
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    sorry...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-xtr-mix.jpg  


  48. #48
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    Been following this thread for a while but would like to know people thoughts on being able to use a xtr triple on the front with this set up as I use the same bike for xc and road riding and would like as big a range as possible.

  49. #49
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    Installed yesterday. I have only ridden it around in the local park a little but so far it feel nice. Also changed the cable routing to minimize the friction in the cables.






  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbj2012 View Post
    Installed yesterday. I have only ridden it around in the local park a little but so far it feel nice. Also changed the cable routing to minimize the friction in the cables.





    Hi cbj2012, looks nice! Congrats!!
    Could you tell us where did you buy them from?

  51. #51
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    Not that you asked me, but here are a few options. Coupons may or may not apply at this time:

    xtr m9000* | Chain Reaction Cycles

    $95 delivered xtr 9000 right shifter: Shimano XTR SL-M9000 Trigger Shifters | Backcountry.com

    GS 9000 rear D: Shimano XTR M9000 GS-Rear Derailleur 11-Speed (Medium Cage) [IRDM9000GS] | Bicycles - AMain.com

  52. #52
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    I got back country to price match with Chain Reaction Cycles for the shifter. Got the derailleur from bikediscount.de and the cassette and front ring from eBay.

    The Dollar is getting even stronger and Shimano prices are going to drop even more in 2015 in Europe. CRC has free shipping but bikediscount unfortunately does not.

    Everything came in original boxes so it was not OEM stuff or taken off bikes.

  53. #53
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    Anybody installed 2x11 with XTR 11spd shifter/rear derailleur with XX1 cassette?

    thanks

  54. #54
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    On ebay it´s starting to appear some good deals comparables to prices on CNC. Maybe in one more month there´ll more of them.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Antonio Azurara View Post
    Anybody installed 2x11 with XTR 11spd shifter/rear derailleur with XX1 cassette?

    thanks
    This combo should work just fine as well. You'll get slightly different chainline, but nothing out of ordinary.

  56. #56
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    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette

    Cbj2012 that is the exact combo I am looking at for my GT force carbon pro as well. Be real interested to hear how it goes in the first couple of rides. Subscribed.

  57. #57
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    I still have not been able to ride the bike. Did you see my post about the change cable routing?

  58. #58
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    I tried it just to see. It's horrifically gappy; exactly what shimano was trying to avoid with their 11sp cassette AND crankset with 10 teeth jump. A 10-42 with 12 or 14 teeth difference in big rings (what most have) compounds the cassette gaps. In 1x a 10-42 is superior. In 2x a regular 10sp cassette is better if you don't want to spring for m9000.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Antonio Azurara View Post
    Anybody installed 2x11 with XTR 11spd shifter/rear derailleur with XX1 cassette?

    thanks

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    I tried it just to see. It's horrifically gappy; exactly what shimano was trying to avoid with their 11sp cassette AND crankset with 10 teeth jump. A 10-42 with 12 or 14 teeth difference in big rings (what most have) compounds the cassette gaps. In 1x a 10-42 is superior. In 2x a regular 10sp cassette is better if you don't want to spring for m9000.
    Thanks Westin for your advice.

    I´m planning to use 26-36 because Shimano advise 10 teeth jump.

    As described in this forum I shall use Medium Cage derailleur.

    Do you believe it will work?

    I want to use 26 on the mountains with a large slope or in carrousel way.

    I´ll use 36 in flat roads with some easy climbs.

    With this configuration I have “2 times 1X11” and I avoid change many times chainring during my trips.

    In the XCC race (with 1x11) they change chainring according to the circuit profile.

    Thanks

  60. #60
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    X01 Cassette with XTR9000 components works!!!

    I just installed the new XTR9000 dérailleur and shifter onto a X01 cassette, KMC X11SL DLC chain, XX1 cranks with AbsoluteBlack chainring. Best shifting and gearing combo.
    I've been running XX1 two years and this combo is far better.
    As far as concerns of chain wrap, etc. you get just as much chainwrap on a cassette as XTR does on its cassette since 17 or 19 or 36, etc are the same number of teeth, diameter, and general location on any cassette, so it performs excellent and as good as the XTR cassette with XTR derailleur. Maybe the XX1 has more wrap than XTR but that is a different topic.
    Precision and feel of shifter is better and doesn't require or allow the feathering play like XX1 does between gears. XTR just clicks up and down. Only difference I noticed was a harder shift rather than a softer/silent shift. But the hard shift may actually lengthen life.
    And with the new XTR brakes it's a great clean bar too. My bike is now full Ninja with the color scheme of gray and black that the X01 cassette, KMC chain, Absolute Black ring, and XTR derailleur. You won't see me coming to pass you. Photos below.
    One complaint, but not related to XTR XX1. The chainline of XX1 cranks is 49-50mm from center. The cassette center is ~40mm from center. So when in your low/larger cogs, you have an angled chainline. But that is just a side effect of cranks pushing rings out to clear wide chain stays on wide carbon frames for wide wheels. Noise is not bad though.
    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-drivetrain.jpg
    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-whole-bike.jpg
    Last edited by chadadally; 02-09-2015 at 06:14 AM.

  61. #61
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    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette

    As the OP of this thread, I would like to confirm, belatedly, XTR M9000 works great with XX1 and X01 cassettes.


  62. #62
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    That looks sweet, I think I'm sold!

  63. #63
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    Chadadally - Is that a baby StrongHold cabinet hiding back there!?

    Quote Originally Posted by chadadally View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

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  64. #64
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    I'm leaning toward this setup I think, thanks aosty.

  65. #65
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    Has anyone used the Xtr single chainset with x0 drivetrain have u encountered some problems?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by aosty View Post
    As the OP of this thread, I would like to confirm, belatedly, XTR M9000 works great with XX1 and X01 cassettes.

    'Belatedly'? Really. And did I forget you had a plastic frame now? Inquiring mind.....

  67. #67
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    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette

    Hi Jmac!
    That's a Jet and this is a RLT.


  68. #68
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    So clean!

  69. #69
    lnd
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    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette

    Please forgive me if this has been answered previously. I have tried the search function: has anyone confirmed that the XTR 11 spd cassette works with the XX1/X01 shifter/r. der.?

    I saw a couple of posts where this was asked, but didn't seem to see any definite responses. Thx.

  70. #70
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    Chadadally, this is not a criticizism of you, but to say it shifts way better is slightly biased. You would need to compare new system to new system, not your slightly worn system with used cable/housing? Anyway, thanks for the write up, as I am sure the new XTR, IS smoother, and I hope to try it out too. Enjoy!

  71. #71
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    are you running a shimano 11 sp chain or a SRAM 11 speed chain?

    my new bike has XTR 1x11, and I'm really wishing I had the gear range from SRAM's 10-42

    thanks!

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayoutside View Post
    are you running a shimano 11 sp chain or a SRAM 11 speed chain?

    my new bike has XTR 1x11, and I'm really wishing I had the gear range from SRAM's 10-42

    thanks!
    Running SRAM XX1 chain.

    In your case you should be able to replace the cassette (assuming your hub can take XD driver) and you will have SRAM 10-42 gearing.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by aosty View Post
    Chadadally - Is that a baby StrongHold cabinet hiding back there!?
    Yes it is a Stronghold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    Chadadally, this is not a criticizism of you, but to say it shifts way better is slightly biased. You would need to compare new system to new system, not your slightly worn system with used cable/housing? Anyway, thanks for the write up, as I am sure the new XTR, IS smoother, and I hope to try it out too. Enjoy!
    Not sure where I said any of this was used? I used the XX1 that was new and stock with this bike. Then I purchased new XTR dérailleur, new XTR shifter, new KMC chain, new X01 cassette, new Absolute Black chainring, and the new cable and housing that came with shifter. So it was a new to new comparison from experience, and as of today the broke in to broke in experience is also better. So in short the XTR is better than the XX1, in my opinion, new and used. But I have not used the XTR cassette. So no judgement on that just the dérailleur and shifter. It's better on the SRAM cassette than SRAM is, new or worn. Guess I didn't change the crank arms but really...it's still a fair new to new and worn to worn comparison. Plus I have used XX1 for over a year, the XTR shifting is hands down superior in performance, now that I have used it for a month. Not even a hesitation even under load. No popping under load like SRAM.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadadally View Post
    Not sure where I said any of this was used? I used the XX1 that was new and stock with this bike. Then I purchased new XTR dérailleur, new XTR shifter, new KMC chain, new X01 cassette, new Absolute Black chainring, and the new cable and housing that came with shifter. So it was a new to new comparison from experience, and as of today the broke in to broke in experience is also better. So in short the XTR is better than the XX1, in my opinion, new and used. But I have not used the XTR cassette. So no judgement on that just the dérailleur and shifter. It's better on the SRAM cassette than SRAM is, new or worn. Guess I didn't change the crank arms but really...it's still a fair new to new and worn to worn comparison. Plus I have used XX1 for over a year, the XTR shifting is hands down superior in performance, now that I have used it for a month. Not even a hesitation even under load. No popping under load like SRAM.
    Sounds like a legit comparison to me.

  76. #76
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    My M9000 derailleur showed up today and it just oozes quality. I sold off my XX1 derailleur and shifter, bought the M9000 set brand new and put about $40 in my pocket. I didn't really have any complaints with the XX1 derailleur or shifter but I do slightly prefer the action of Shimano. Side by side the XX1 derailleur seems cheap and plasticky in comparison. Only complaint with M9000 is that the clutch switch is plastic now instead of anodized ALU.
    Last edited by max_lombardy; 03-04-2015 at 06:35 AM.

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    Another satisfied customer here - I am running 2*11 22/32 on a 29'er. I started with XTR shifter, der, cassette and chain.

    Ran it for a week or two and then put a 10-42 X01 cassette on. I think it might actually shift better than the XTR cassette. Also the XD driver for my DT Swiss hub was 25g lighter and the cassette was 70g lighter for a nice 4oz weight savings too.

    Did a big mountain ride last weekend and the shifting and gear range were sweet.
    611% gearing ratio.

  78. #78
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    I'm happy to see that this setup is working well, and I've ordered the parts. I was initially drawn by the possibility of mounting the xtr shifter to my i-spec b xtr brakes. Of course, Shimano needed yet another i-spec, so that won't work. Oh well, at least I explored it before ordering a new i-spec shifter!

    I'd initially planned to go with the One-up/Radr Cage setup, but then I got a great deal on a set of wheels with an xd driver, so I made the jump.

  79. #79
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    I think you shall not use less than 26 with 42. Otherwise you can damage your rear hub. I read this information in many places.

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    I ran 22/40 using a wolftooth cog on a DT Swiss hub for almost the whole of last season and didn't have any problems. The freehub splines weren't even marred.
    I weigh 200lbs and ride big climbs every weekend. So there's a data point.
    I did destroy a Novatec rear hub before that but IMO it was a terrible design with a pressed in freewheel holder that wasn't pinned or anything and it started slipping on me.

    Due to traction and cadence, I'm not sure you actually put the highest torque into the cassette when you are in the little ring, I would think you actually see higher real world loads with a bigger front ring when you are desperately cranking into it at low climbing speeds.

  81. #81
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    I'm running this set up and for the most part am happy but I have a KMC chain. Seems loud. Any thoughts?

    What is everyone else running?

  82. #82
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    42/28 Chain Rings With XTR Front Derailleur?

    Is anybody running 42/28 chainrings with a XTR front derailleur (mechanical or Di2)? Or some combo of chainrings with a bigger than 10-tooth difference? The front derailleur is only spec'd to have a 10-tooth difference. I'm interested in running a SRAM crankset that I already have with Rotor 42/28 chainrings that I also already have.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyP5 View Post
    Is anybody running 42/28 chainrings with a XTR front derailleur (mechanical or Di2)? Or some combo of chainrings with a bigger than 10-tooth difference? The front derailleur is only spec'd to have a 10-tooth difference. I'm interested in running a SRAM crankset that I already have with Rotor 42/28 chainrings that I also already have.
    If you need gearing range that wide, you had probably better stick with 3x10. It might be doable but the shifting performance will be crap

  84. #84
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    Just ordered a wolf direct mount ring for my race face cranks. Their ring is 49mm chainline instead of the 51mm that race face and shimano use. I think this will be better in the larger cogs regardless of using a sram or shimano cassette. I dont get why shimano uses this chainline with a 1x11. Will report my findings.

  85. #85
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    I was told that the Shimano CN HG900 chain should work/shift smoother than the KMC X11SL chain. I will give it a try for sure.

  86. #86
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    Heard the shimano chain wont play nice with a sram cassette

  87. #87
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    Hhm dunno? A guy in a german forum tried both, KMC and Shimano chains and he liked the Shimano way better.

  88. #88
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    This is what I read about shimano chains and sram cassettes:

    I would stick with a SRAM chain as long as you use the SRAM cassette. I really noticed this with the SRAM XG-999 cassette, the Shimano XTR chain caused a lot of damage to the teeth on the big alloy cog, and it would jump off the big cog on backpedal.

  89. #89
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    I started with the Shimano chain and the KMC 11 speed link on my x01 cassette. I was having sporadic issues where the chain would hop and I spent a ton of time trying to get it right. I've been installing and setting up my own derailleurs for years so I don't think it was me.

    Long story short I threw on a Sram xx1 chain and all problems went away instantly. So while I can't say it with absolute certainty it feels to me that the Shimano chain is a bit more temperamental with the x01 cassette. Enough so that even if I spent more time trying to get it right I wasn't terribly wild about consistency over the long run in the field.

  90. #90
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    I know this is slightly off topic, but has anyone tried using a XTR 11 speed rear derailleur with a XTR 10 speed cassette and 10 speed shifter? My current rear derailleur is broken and I'm wondering if I can replace with 11 speed to prep for future 11 speed conversion.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by K9-Usurper View Post
    I know this is slightly off topic, but has anyone tried using a XTR 11 speed rear derailleur with a XTR 10 speed cassette and 10 speed shifter? My current rear derailleur is broken and I'm wondering if I can replace with 11 speed to prep for future 11 speed conversion.
    Yes, that should work. I am running an XT 11-36 10 speed cassette with Wolftooth 16t and 42t cogs, XTR 10 speed shifter and XTR M9000 11 speed derailleur and it works great. Shifts better than my previous 10 speed XTR derailleur with a Rad cage. I don't know how adjusting for a narrower range cassette will affect the shifting since the 11 speed derailleur is designed for 11-40, but I expect it would be fine.

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    Thanks for the reply. I was actually running a 10 speed XTR rear derailleur with the Radr cage when the derailleur wrapped around and ended up inside my wheel (breaking a few spokes in the process). Ironically, this happened cruising up Hines Mill in Demo, as opposed to flying down a DH. Made me question using these ghetto style 1 x 42 conversions. I have a long cage 11 speed xtr rear derailleur on order. Hoping for the best!

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by K9-Usurper View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I was actually running a 10 speed XTR rear derailleur with the Radr cage when the derailleur wrapped around and ended up inside my wheel (breaking a few spokes in the process). Ironically, this happened cruising up Hines Mill in Demo, as opposed to flying down a DH. Made me question using these ghetto style 1 x 42 conversions. I have a long cage 11 speed xtr rear derailleur on order. Hoping for the best!
    Before you install a new $200 derailleur on your bike, make sure you put on a brand new derailleur hanger (if you haven't already). Take your time setting the limit screws and dialing in the shifting, it'll pay off in the long run.

    On a side note, I tried a 10 speed XTR shifter on an 11 speed M9000 derailleur and an XX1 cassette just for shits and it didn't index correctly. May or may not have worked on a 10 speed cassette though.

    Good luck!

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by K9-Usurper View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I was actually running a 10 speed XTR rear derailleur with the Radr cage when the derailleur wrapped around and ended up inside my wheel (breaking a few spokes in the process). Ironically, this happened cruising up Hines Mill in Demo, as opposed to flying down a DH. Made me question using these ghetto style 1 x 42 conversions. I have a long cage 11 speed xtr rear derailleur on order. Hoping for the best!
    It seems like it usually is a climb when a catastrophic derailleur-wheel munching happens, the cage is at its closest to the spokes and it doesn't take as much of a problem for it to happen. I haven't seen it on a 1x10 yet, but it is almost always caused by debris or something getting bent and/or a derailleur adjustment problem. The most recent one I witnessed was a 3x9 and the rim cracked under the rim strip all the way around the wheel and caused enough wheel flex that it grabbed the derailleur on a short steep climb. If you are already running an 11-42t cassette then you should be fine with the M9000, I am guessing you needed a new hanger?, and get the limit screws dialed in. One question though, why are you going with a long cage? The GS cage is plenty for an 11-42t 1x10 setup.

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    XO1 cogs, M9000 RD and shifter, KMC 11 speed chain. Works for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    It seems like it usually is a climb when a catastrophic derailleur-wheel munching happens, the cage is at its closest to the spokes and it doesn't take as much of a problem for it to happen. I haven't seen it on a 1x10 yet, but it is almost always caused by debris or something getting bent and/or a derailleur adjustment problem. The most recent one I witnessed was a 3x9 and the rim cracked under the rim strip all the way around the wheel and caused enough wheel flex that it grabbed the derailleur on a short steep climb. If you are already running an 11-42t cassette then you should be fine with the M9000, I am guessing you needed a new hanger?, and get the limit screws dialed in. One question though, why are you going with a long cage? The GS cage is plenty for an 11-42t 1x10 setup.
    I was running 1x10 (11-42) and spinning in the 3rd largest cog (32T maybe?) when the derailleur wrapped. I get that there are many factors that could contribute to the derailleur wrapping around, though I didn't notice my hanger being bent prior to the crash. As far as why long cage? I didn't do tons of research... just assumed I should probably go long cage since that's what was necessary to get the 42T working with 10speed setup. Also, considering Shimano didn't anticipate folks going to 42T, seemed safer to go with the long cage.

  97. #97
    cmh
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    Slightly off topic, but I'm switching a bike over from 10-speed XT to 11 speed XTR, with the XTR derailleur and cassette (not SRAM) and a KMC X11SL chain - and for some reason, the chain and the top jockey pulley do NOT seem to want to get along. Doing some internet searching brought me here where I see several folks pairing the X11SL and the M9000 derailleur. No similar problems? The upper jockey pulley has taller teeth, but not the narrow/wide that I've seen on the SRAM 1x derailleurs, which was the first thing I thought. While it shifts okay, it's noisy and nowhere near smooth, since the jockey pulley seems too wide for the narrow plates of the KMC chain. Any thoughts on this? Will probably try a 10 speed chain to see how that works, but just surprised that this combo doesn't work for me, I've been running KMC chains with Shimano drivetrains for a while now.

    If it matters, it's a RF cinch crankset with a Wolf Tooth spiderless ring.

  98. #98
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    I have the same set up and the KMC chain didn't work with the shimano stuff. It was noisy. I switched to an XTR chain and its all good. Why would you go to a 10 speed chain with an 11 speed drivetrain?

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by K9-Usurper View Post
    I was running 1x10 (11-42) and spinning in the 3rd largest cog (32T maybe?) when the derailleur wrapped. I get that there are many factors that could contribute to the derailleur wrapping around, though I didn't notice my hanger being bent prior to the crash. As far as why long cage? I didn't do tons of research... just assumed I should probably go long cage since that's what was necessary to get the 42T working with 10speed setup. Also, considering Shimano didn't anticipate folks going to 42T, seemed safer to go with the long cage.
    I am running a GS (medium) cage M9000 with my 11-42t setup, a medium cage is generally the recommended configuration for 1x10 and I am very happy with it. There is no need for a long cage, it is just more exposure to damage and slightly less chain wrap in the small cogs with no benefits over a medium cage. If you were running a RADr cage previously, then you were effectively running a slightly shorter than medium cage. And the RAD cage only works with medium cage derailleurs. The long cage will work, but I would swap it for a medium cage if possible before installing it.

  100. #100
    cmh
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    I would try the 10 speed chain because it's wider and the problem that is causing the noise is the upper jockey pulley seems too wide for the 11 speed KMC chain. I don't have an XTR chain on hand (yes, I can order one) but I do have many 10 speed chains on hand.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmh View Post
    I would try the 10 speed chain because it's wider and the problem that is causing the noise is the upper jockey pulley seems too wide for the 11 speed KMC chain. I don't have an XTR chain on hand (yes, I can order one) but I do have many 10 speed chains on hand.
    If you already have a chain I suppose it's worth trying but I wouldn't expect it to work.

    First, the inner width of the 10 and 11 speed chains are the same, that's why you can use for example a RF Narrow Wide on 10sp and 11sp. It's the outer width that's slightly different. So if the pulley doesn't jive with the chain, the 10 speed won't have any more space.

    In addition, because it's wider, the 10sp chain won't fit quite within it's space on the cassette so it will want to grab the next lower gear and downshift. In theory.

    Like I said, it's worth a shot though if you already have the chain.

  102. #102
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    I have this setup on my new Pivot Les Fat. The XTR shifter effort on fore finger release is tougher than a thumb shift when shifting into a harder gear. Anyone else experience this?


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    Yes, the new XTR shifter is noticeably harder to upshift when actuated with the index finger. I think at this point most people are using the index finger only to brake, which leaves only the thumb for shifting duties. I just thumb shift up and down, it's such a nice action. The shift paddles are much more ergonomical for the thumb anyhow, plus the double skip only works in that direction. You're not the only one though.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by max_lombardy View Post
    ...plus the double skip only works in that direction.
    Wait, what? Is this for real? Since when does new generation stuff remove features? Damn. I stuck it out with 8 speed M950 for a long damn time, I actually have never had a 9-speed drivetrain on one of my personal bikes. Looks like I may be doing the same with 10-speed. Well, 10 speed shifters and cassettes, anyway. I like my 11 speed derailleur.

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    Again, I don't really see it as a loss of anything worthwhile. The shifter still has more features than SRAM and has a way better feel. You can still double-release with the thumb, just not with the index finger.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by max_lombardy View Post
    Yes, the new XTR shifter is noticeably harder to upshift when actuated with the index finger. I think at this point most people are using the index finger only to brake, which leaves only the thumb for shifting duties. I just thumb shift up and down, it's such a nice action. The shift paddles are much more ergonomical for the thumb anyhow, plus the double skip only works in that direction. You're not the only one though.
    I did notice that I was using my thumb to do all the shifting. On my 2x10 XT equipped Tallboy, I use the thumb/forefinger method.


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  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by max_lombardy View Post
    Again, I don't really see it as a loss of anything worthwhile. The shifter still has more features than SRAM and has a way better feel. You can still double-release with the thumb, just not with the index finger.
    It is worthwhile if it is something that you use, I would miss that feature.

  108. #108
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    Sounds like the SRAM cassette with Shimano shifter/derailleur works fine... I wanted to try the other way around, even if nobody else would ever try it.

    I'm going shuttling this weekend so I wanted to put a beefier rear tire on. My other bike has the tire I want to use on it so I thought it would be easier to move the wheel than put the tire on and take it off again after my trip. The other wheel has an 11-40 XTR cassette on it. This bike has X01 shifter/derailleur/cassette.

    It could be a matter of adjustment but it shifted like garbage. I didn't want to adjust the derailleur just to have to adjust it back after my trip so I ended up swapping the tire.

  109. #109
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    Questions to the people running an XTR RD-M9000 with an XX1 cassette :

    - what chainlength do you use? According to their respective manuals, SRAM recommends adding 4 links, Shimano only two.
    - what distance between upper pulley and large cog?
    SRAM recommends 12 - 16mm, while Shimano mentions 5 - 6mm.
    - When using a narrow wide chainring up front and XX1 cassette at the rear, I'd expect SRAM's XX1 chain is the way to go.

    Seems like SRAM recommends about 2x Shimano's values.

    http://si.shimano.com/php/download.p...004-04-ENG.pdf

    https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign....erailleurs.pdf

  110. #110
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    -Chain length depends on if you have a FS with a lot of chain growth (3-4 links) or an HT (2 is fine). Or you can let the air out of your shock, compress fully and add 2 links. Can't see why you'd need more than that.
    -I've always gone with the 5-6 mm spacing and gotten nice crisp shifts. No problems with M9000/XX1.
    -I'd think either chain would be fine but I'm on a SRAM chain and it's solid. I'd argue for X1, it weight just 6 grams more than XX1 and can be had for a really nice price.

  111. #111
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    I think SRAM's recommendations on chain length (and spacing) have to do with the possibility to go +2T or -2T on the front chainring. The capacity of their RD can take up the additional chainslack of 2T less or lesser chainslack of 2T more. Shimano can do the same I guess (although they don't list this), given that the GS has a 37T capacity (42-10 = 32T), and the SGS 45T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Questions to the people running an XTR RD-M9000 with an XX1 cassette :

    - what chainlength do you use? According to their respective manuals, SRAM recommends adding 4 links, Shimano only two.
    - what distance between upper pulley and large cog?
    SRAM recommends 12 - 16mm, while Shimano mentions 5 - 6mm.
    - When using a narrow wide chainring up front and XX1 cassette at the rear, I'd expect SRAM's XX1 chain is the way to go.

    Seems like SRAM recommends about 2x Shimano's values.

    http://si.shimano.com/php/download.p...004-04-ENG.pdf

    https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign....erailleurs.pdf
    The difference in the b set screw spacing between your upper pulley and your largest cog is because Shimano has a smaller 40t big ring in the rear and the way the dérailleur pivots as it goes to larger cogs. The SRAM dérailleur gets more movement in the pulley. The best way to set your rear dérailleur is shift up (down to smaller) four gears from the largest cog in the rear and then do a single stroke four gear shift with a REALLY SLOW (1sec per quarter turn) pedal rotation in a bike stand. The chain shouldn't bind against the large cog when shifting into the large cog. If so add more spacing. Get that perfect and you will have the correct spacing without risking damage during quick shifts on a steep climb.
    Ideal chain length is best if you can test as you take out lengths. Basically I set mine with my smallest front chainring I'd use and take out pairs until the dérailleur just starts to have tension when in smallest rear cog. Then you can go from 32-36 or 30-34 front rings without chain adjustments.
    But if you're changing front rings, remember to reset your b adjust for proper spacing as the pulley wheel moves distance as you add or remove teeth or links.
    Last edited by chadadally; 05-18-2015 at 06:06 AM. Reason: Typo

  113. #113
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    Thanks for the detailed response - in the meantime I discovered Shimano's technical reference 2015-2016 SHIMANO Product Information Web . It is listed that the XTR RD-M9000 SGS / GS are compatible with a 42T when set up as 1x11 :-)
    My XTR RD-M9000 GS derailleur and shifter are in the house, will mount it end of the week.

  114. #114
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    Hey everyone,
    I have a question somewhat similar to the motivation in this thread, so I figured I would ask it in here instead of starting my own thread.

    Does anyone know if the new XTR M9000 11s shifter is compatible with the XX1 2.1 derailleur and XX1/X01 cassette? I ask because I'd love to use the XTR shifter and brakes at my hands (love the I-Spec feel) but still use the XX1 derailleur. Anyone know?

    It's an 11s shifter, and I can't find anything that says it wouldn't work. But I also can't find anything that says it will work.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Hey everyone,
    I have a question somewhat similar to the motivation in this thread, so I figured I would ask it in here instead of starting my own thread.

    Does anyone know if the new XTR M9000 11s shifter is compatible with the XX1 2.1 derailleur and XX1/X01 cassette? I ask because I'd love to use the XTR shifter and brakes at my hands (love the I-Spec feel) but still use the XX1 derailleur. Anyone know?

    It's an 11s shifter, and I can't find anything that says it wouldn't work. But I also can't find anything that says it will work.
    Don't think so. Cross-compatibility is a thing of the past. I tried the reverse and it was a no-go (XTR m9000 dérailleur and XO1 shifter, just for s#its and giggles while I waited on my XTR shifter to arrive in the post). The actuation ratio is different.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by max_lombardy View Post
    Don't think so. Cross-compatibility is a thing of the past. I tried the reverse and it was a no-go (XTR m9000 dérailleur and XO1 shifter, just for s#its and giggles while I waited on my XTR shifter to arrive in the post). The actuation ratio is different.
    Total bummer. Not what I wanted to hear =(

    Was really hoping for an XTR cockpit and XX1/X01 rear end.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Total bummer. Not what I wanted to hear =(

    Was really hoping for an XTR cockpit and XX1/X01 rear end.
    Any reason why? To me the XTR rear der is less "plasticky" and higher quality than xx1, and better looking. Weight is almost the same, and the XX1 cassette still works. What's not to like?

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by max_lombardy View Post
    Any reason why? To me the XTR rear der is less "plasticky" and higher quality than xx1, and better looking. Weight is almost the same, and the XX1 cassette still works. What's not to like?
    The XX1 cassette will still work though?

    So you're saying I could run the XTR brakes, 11s shifter, and 11s derailleur while still using the XX1/X01 11s cassette?

    I've just been trying to figure out ways to keep my XX1/X01 cassette while taking advantage of the I-Spec goodness.

    I'm confused though. Because if the XTR shifter and XX1 derailleur aren't compatible, doesn't that essentially mean the cassette would need to match the cog spacing as well? How is it that the cassette wouldn't also need to swapped out?

  119. #119
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    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette

    Different cable pull.

    The dérailleur still moves the same amount, though.
    Death from Below.

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    Basically the shifter and dérailleur are designed to use a certain amount of cable to move a certain distance. In this case the cassette spacing between XTR and Sram is the same. So as long as you use the same shifter and dérailleur, you can choose the cassette you like. I have the XTR shifter and dérailleur and an XX1 cassette and it works like a dream. Best setup I've ever used hands down.

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by max_lombardy View Post
    Basically the shifter and dérailleur are designed to use a certain amount of cable to move a certain distance. In this case the cassette spacing between XTR and Sram is the same. So as long as you use the same shifter and dérailleur, you can choose the cassette you like. I have the XTR shifter and dérailleur and an XX1 cassette and it works like a dream. Best setup I've ever used hands down.
    Yes, my bad. After I posted that I then went back through this thread from the beginning and realized that's entirely what people started posting: "using the XTR shifter and RD w/SRAM XX1/X01 cassette and it's flawless!!". My bad, I should have read first.

    I'll put out just one last question though: According to Shimano, the long cage RD has a 45T capacity. For *hits and giggles, I'd like to try the new One-Up 44T sprocket. Analytically, Shimano says the RD could do it. Thoughts?

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by max_lombardy View Post
    I have the XTR shifter and dérailleur and an XX1 cassette and it works like a dream. Best setup I've ever used hands down.
    I have the XTR BR-M9020 brakes, SL-M9000 right shifter, FC-M9000 crank with 30T ring, XTR HG-900 chain and XX1 cassette. Works perfect - what chain are you running? I have done some measurements using a caliper, there are some differences, ranging like 1/10th of a millimeter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    I'll put out just one last question though: According to Shimano, the long cage RD has a 45T capacity. For *hits and giggles, I'd like to try the new One-Up 44T sprocket. Analytically, Shimano says the RD could do it. Thoughts?
    Derailleur capacity is not the same as maximum cog size. Capacity is the total range of gears it can handle, calculated by subtracting the smallest cog from the largest cog, and if running multiple front chainrings, doing the same for them and adding the sums together. So 45t capacity does not mean it can shift over a 45t cog. However...

    Probably the M9000 RD can easily shift over a 44t cog, it has no problem with a 42t, and there is always some wiggle room. And the medium cage should be fine, the long cage would remain overkill. A 10-44 cassette would give a nice range, it probably isn't going to get much better than that for a 1x drivetrain.

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    Derailleur capacity is not the same as maximum cog size. Capacity is the total range of gears it can handle, calculated by subtracting the smallest cog from the largest cog, and if running multiple front chainrings, doing the same for them and adding the sums together. So 45t capacity does not mean it can shift over a 45t cog. However...

    Probably the M9000 RD can easily shift over a 44t cog, it has no problem with a 42t, and there is always some wiggle room. And the medium cage should be fine, the long cage would remain overkill. A 10-44 cassette would give a nice range, it probably isn't going to get much better than that for a 1x drivetrain.
    So how does that calculation work if using a 1x setup? 44-10+30 (front ring) = 64....?
    Obviously 64 is bigger than the stated XTR derailleur at 45T. I have to imagine the derailleur will work just fine since OneUp also sells a 45T sprocket for the Shimano XTR cassette. So my One up 44T sprocket for my SRAM XX1/X01 cassette should be just fine......theoretically.....

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    So how does that calculation work if using a 1x setup? 44-10+30 (front ring) = 64....?
    Obviously 64 is bigger than the stated XTR derailleur at 45T. I have to imagine the derailleur will work just fine since OneUp also sells a 45T sprocket for the Shimano XTR cassette. So my One up 44T sprocket for my SRAM XX1/X01 cassette should be just fine......theoretically.....
    With a 1x setup you ignore the front ring, the derailleur doesn't care how big the chainring is, only about any difference in sizes, and since there is only one there is no difference it has to take up. This is why the medium cage can handle any possible 1x setup. You should be fine, actually the only possible restriction is to not use a cassette with a big cog smaller than 40t.

    The 45t works because it would only be barely bigger than the 44t, but your 10-44 cassette would still be roughly a full gear wider in range than an 11-45, mathematically speaking.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    With a 1x setup you ignore the front ring, the derailleur doesn't care how big the chainring is, only about any difference in sizes, and since there is only one there is no difference it has to take up. This is why the medium cage can handle any possible 1x setup. You should be fine, actually the only possible restriction is to not use a cassette with a big cog smaller than 40t.

    The 45t works because it would only be barely bigger than the 44t, but your 10-44 cassette would still be roughly a full gear wider in range than an 11-45, mathematically speaking.
    That's an interesting post of info, since I just ordered the Long Cage derailleur this morning. I thought for sure I would need the long cage variety. You really think I could get away with a mid cage XTR M9000 derailleur if I run a 10-44 cassette and 30 or 32 front ring?

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    That's an interesting post of info, since I just ordered the Long Cage derailleur this morning. I thought for sure I would need the long cage variety. You really think I could get away with a mid cage XTR M9000 derailleur if I run a 10-44 cassette and 30 or 32 front ring?
    Yes, absolutely. The XTR RD-M9000-GS (the medium cage version) has a 37t capacity, and your cassette easily works: 44-10=34. The front ring size doesn't matter. On my bike, I am running this derailleur with an 11-42 cassette, and there is plenty of capacity left. Always run the shortest cage that works for your setup, see if you can change your order or return the long cage one.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    Yes, absolutely. The XTR RD-M9000-GS (the medium cage version) has a 37t capacity, and your cassette easily works: 44-10=34. The front ring size doesn't matter. On my bike, I am running this derailleur with an 11-42 cassette, and there is plenty of capacity left. Always run the shortest cage that works for your setup, see if you can change your order or return the long cage one.
    Will do. Cheers!

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    Just upgraded to 1x11 using the XTR M9000 Rear Derailleur/Shifter with the XX1 rear cassette and chain, crankset is a Next SL w/36 tooth ring. I have been riding it now for a month but I can't get the shifting sharp through all 11 gears. If I adjust so it shifts sharp through the smaller cogs, then I get a slight chain chattering when I'm in the larger cogs (plus hesitation shifting from larger to smaller cogs). Any ideas on how to fix this?

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    Bent hangar ^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by zonamtbiker View Post
    Just upgraded to 1x11 using the XTR M9000 Rear Derailleur/Shifter with the XX1 rear cassette and chain, crankset is a Next SL w/36 tooth ring. I have been riding it now for a month but I can't get the shifting sharp through all 11 gears. If I adjust so it shifts sharp through the smaller cogs, then I get a slight chain chattering when I'm in the larger cogs (plus hesitation shifting from larger to smaller cogs). Any ideas on how to fix this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    Bent hangar ^^
    Agreed. Get the hanger aligned just as a precaution before fiddling with the shifter/cable. Then start with minor barrel adjusting. I wonder if the XX1 chain (for whatever reason) may be causing a slight hiccup there, too.

  132. #132
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    I must say I too can hear a slight rattle pedalling steep uphill when shifted into the 36 and 42T cogs. Shimano recommends a 5-6mm spacing between upper pulley and 42T cog. Respecting this surely quietens things down, but I can still hear a light rattle. I'm running the XTR HG-900 chain, with FC-M9000 crank with a 30T ring.
    Given the post above, using the XX1 chain doesn't make a difference.

    When you guys are shifted into the 10T cog, is there some slack on your rear derailleur cable or is it tight (like mine) with no slack?

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonamtbiker View Post
    Just upgraded to 1x11 using the XTR M9000 Rear Derailleur/Shifter with the XX1 rear cassette and chain, crankset is a Next SL w/36 tooth ring. I have been riding it now for a month but I can't get the shifting sharp through all 11 gears. If I adjust so it shifts sharp through the smaller cogs, then I get a slight chain chattering when I'm in the larger cogs (plus hesitation shifting from larger to smaller cogs). Any ideas on how to fix this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    Bent hangar ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    I must say I too can hear a slight rattle pedalling steep uphill when shifted into the 36 and 42T cogs. Shimano recommends a 5-6mm spacing between upper pulley and 42T cog. Respecting this surely quietens things down, but I can still hear a light rattle. I'm running the XTR HG-900 chain, with FC-M9000 crank with a 30T ring.
    Given the post above, using the XX1 chain doesn't make a difference.

    When you guys are shifted into the 10T cog, is there some slack on your rear derailleur cable or is it tight (like mine) with no slack?
    A rattle? Or chain chatter, like it's wanting to jump gears? Maybe the cassette isn't completely installed right.

  134. #134
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    Definitely not wanting to jump gears - it's more the sound of a light 'rub' whenever you apply torque uphill. As long as you are spinning evenly you don't even hear it. Since I've done some measurements using a caliper on both new XX1 and XTR HG-900 chains, the XTR chain has an inner width of 3,60mm at the narrow links, 4,00mm at the wide links and a distance of 5.35mm between the rollers vs 3.65, 3.90 and 5.25 of the XX1. I would think only the most narrow links count (that's a 0.05mm difference) and the distance between the rolles (a 0.10mm difference).

    I have an S-Works Stumpjumper HT and S-Works Epic WC, both with XTR / XX1, and it's the same 'rubbing' sound on both bikes. 100% sure it's not the derailleur hangers.

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    Mine is not trying to jump gears either and is really only in the 32T and 36T cogs, not in the 42, which is strange. For me I can get rid of the chatter by turning the barrel in, (shortening the cable). But when I do this, it doesn't want to shift from 10T to 12T. This adjustment is just a half to 3/4 turn of the barrel. So what I have ended up doing is adjusting on the fly depending on the trail condition that is coming up.

    I will check the derailleur/cassette spacing and have the hanger checked. Our LBS has a really good mechanic so when I have him check the hanger, I'll see if he has any ideas.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Definitely not wanting to jump gears - it's more the sound of a light 'rub' whenever you apply torque uphill. As long as you are spinning evenly you don't even hear it. Since I've done some measurements using a caliper on both new XX1 and XTR HG-900 chains, the XTR chain has an inner width of 3,60mm at the narrow links, 4,00mm at the wide links and a distance of 5.35mm between the rollers vs 3.65, 3.90 and 5.25 of the XX1. I would think only the most narrow links count (that's a 0.05mm difference) and the distance between the rolles (a 0.10mm difference).

    I have an S-Works Stumpjumper HT and S-Works Epic WC, both with XTR / XX1, and it's the same 'rubbing' sound on both bikes. 100% sure it's not the derailleur hangers.
    I am not sure that a light rub or some sort of noise is possible to completely avoid in a wide range 1x drivetrain in the biggest cogs with the inherently less than ideal chainlines, especially with an 11 speed setup. This is part of why I have been trying to stick to 10 speed, it isn't much of an improvement, but it is better. I don't mind the bigger jumps, and the shifting onto and off of my Wolftooth 42t has always been remarkably good with the RadCage M980 and the M9000.

  137. #137
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    I managed to cure the rattle, by swapping the XTR HG-900 chain to an SRAM PC-XX1.

    Although the dimensions of both chains are pretty equal, there is one major difference : side play.

    I took a brand new piece of 8 links of each chain, aligned them perfectly parallel with the side of the table and hold the end link. The other end I moved away from the side of the table : Shimano chain can only be moved 7mm at most, while the XX1 chain easily can be moved 11mm. This makes a big difference taken the length from front chainring to the cassette into account. When cross shifting into the 36 and 42T cogs, there is less stress on the teeth of the cassette, which seemed to cause the grinding noise. Even when backpedaling, the chain now stays perfectly on, no chain jumping or anything. The XX1 chain works perfect with the Shimano 30T chainring up front as well.

    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-s-works-stumpjumper_ht_13_zpsn8nwubjw.jpg

    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-s-works-stumpjumper_ht_11_zpsh9xrvhry.jpg

    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-s-works-stumpjumper_ht_12_zpsmhxjsqnn.jpg

  138. #138
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    Are the cassettes any wider overall? Not sure as I've not put a set of calipers to them. But the difference is gonna be pretty minimal

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    Cassettes measure exactly the same cog pitch and overall width, see here

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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    I managed to cure the rattle, by swapping the XTR HG-900 chain to an SRAM PC-XX1.

    Although the dimensions of both chains are pretty equal, there is one major difference : side play.

    I took a brand new piece of 8 links of each chain, aligned them perfectly parallel with the side of the table and hold the end link. The other end I moved away from the side of the table : Shimano chain can only be moved 7mm at most, while the XX1 chain easily can be moved 11mm. This makes a big difference taken the length from front chainring to the cassette into account. When cross shifting into the 36 and 42T cogs, there is less stress on the teeth of the cassette, which seemed to cause the grinding noise. Even when backpedaling, the chain now stays perfectly on, no chain jumping or anything. The XX1 chain works perfect with the Shimano 30T chainring up front as well.

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    Very interesting. Thanks for giving us an update. I wonder if I will be having a similar issue with my KMC X11 SL chain once I complete my build.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    That's an interesting post of info, since I just ordered the Long Cage derailleur this morning. I thought for sure I would need the long cage variety. You really think I could get away with a mid cage XTR M9000 derailleur if I run a 10-44 cassette and 30 or 32 front ring?
    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    Yes, absolutely. The XTR RD-M9000-GS (the medium cage version) has a 37t capacity, and your cassette easily works: 44-10=34. The front ring size doesn't matter. On my bike, I am running this derailleur with an 11-42 cassette, and there is plenty of capacity left. Always run the shortest cage that works for your setup, see if you can change your order or return the long cage one.
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Will do. Cheers!
    Started to build up my new bike this weekend, figured I would give an update. This mid cage M9000 XTR rear derailleur does NOT work with my 10-44 cassette. I have the L-screw to the point where it's in line with the 44T cog, the clutch in the OFF spot, and the B-screw ALL the way in. I can't get myself anymore space between the derailleur and the the 44T cog.




    Unless I'm doing something wrong, I don't see how the long cage variety would work either since that's just a longer cage instead of pulley clearance. I'm going to screw in my XX1 derailleur and see if that works.
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    Interestingly enough, I just looked at the XTR site "RD Complete Specs" sheet and it says plain as day, top sprocket 11T, low sprocket 40T. My experience seems to fit that perfectly. Not sure how you are running this on a 10-42.....
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    Thats weird. Maybe it depends on derailleur hanger. I have M9000-GS with XX1 cassette and 44t cog and it works fine. I need to ask my bike service if they used original B-screw. Did you maybe try longer B-screw?

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by chukko View Post
    Thats weird. Maybe it depends on derailleur hanger. I have M9000-GS with XX1 cassette and 44t cog and it works fine. I need to ask my bike service if they used original B-screw. Did you maybe try longer B-screw?
    Well that's frustrating because that's the exact same setup as I have. I'm not even close on clearance. As in the picture, I can actually only get the pulley lined up with the 44T cog when I manipulate the teeth so they are alternating. Otherwise the pulley hits the cog.

    The B-screw that came with the RD is all the way screwed in, it's hitting the metal bump stop, so it can't be screwed in anymore. But I can see how a longer screw may be the solution.

    But despite all that, if the B-screw has to be changed out, then the RD doesn't have a 37T capacity from the factory.....right?
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  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Interestingly enough, I just looked at the XTR site "RD Complete Specs" sheet and it says plain as day, top sprocket 11T, low sprocket 40T. My experience seems to fit that perfectly. Not sure how you are running this on a 10-42.....
    Wrong, read the official Shimano technical specs here, it clearly states 1x11 : 42T

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Started to build up my new bike this weekend, figured I would give an update. This mid cage M9000 XTR rear derailleur does NOT work with my 10-44 cassette. I have the L-screw to the point where it's in line with the 44T cog, the clutch in the OFF spot, and the B-screw ALL the way in. I can't get myself anymore space between the derailleur and the the 44T cog.
    Unless I'm doing something wrong, I don't see how the long cage variety would work either since that's just a longer cage instead of pulley clearance. I'm going to screw in my XX1 derailleur and see if that works.
    You need to have a chain on there, or just swing the cage around to a forward position, that is how it will be positioned in the big cogs with a chain, and that swings the upper jockey pulley down to create the missing clearance. That is what makes the M9000 different than the M985 derailleur, the jockey pulley axle is offset from the cage pivot to vary the amount of clearance to track the profile of a wide range cassette.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Wrong, read the official Shimano technical specs here, it clearly states 1x11 : 42T
    Interesting. I was reading this: https://www.ridextr.com/specfiles/en...te%20Specs.pdf


    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    You need to have a chain on there, or just swing the cage around to a forward position, that is how it will be positioned in the big cogs with a chain, and that swings the upper jockey pulley down to create the missing clearance. That is what makes the M9000 different than the M985 derailleur, the jockey pulley axle is offset from the cage pivot to vary the amount of clearance to track the profile of a wide range cassette.
    Ah!! OK, thanks. I'll have to try that right now. See, I didn't know I needed to do that, didn't know the cage being extended also rotated out/down the main pulley. That's a neat feature!! Thanks for the tip. Will go try that shortly.


    I also went to the hardware store real quick and picked up a few different B-screw options. I can get a bit extra length out of the custom bolt, but that's as far as I can push the swivel hanger out before it won't even act as a stop anymore.



    But even despite all that, I'll have to go try and pull the cage manually to see if I can get the clearance I need.
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  148. #148
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    Well I'll be darned, the XTR derailleur does in fact move on a progressive curve towards the 44T cog. Don't think I've seen a RD do this before. It seems to be able to work with the 10-44T cassette.

    So how does this work in order to set your limit screws, especially the L-limit screw? If the derailleur has to, essentially, have a cable hooked up to it, how exactly do you set this derailleur up? In what order would I complete tasks to set it up?

    TIA!
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  149. #149
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    @chrisingrassia I managed to get a picture - VonFalkenhausens answer explains why i more likely have original B screw (i guess service guy would have called me about the problem).

    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-xtr-xx1.jpg

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by chukko View Post
    @chrisingrassia I managed to get a picture - VonFalkenhausens answer explains why i more likely have original B screw (i guess service guy would have called me about the problem).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yep, I agree that the derailleur moves not only in a diagonal pattern when the cable is shifted, but the pulley also seems to rotate down further when the cage goes down as well. I still am not quite sure how to setup this derailleur, in what order to complete the typical derailleur setup tasks
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  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Well I'll be darned, the XTR derailleur does in fact move on a progressive curve towards the 44T cog. Don't think I've seen a RD do this before. It seems to be able to work with the 10-44T cassette.

    So how does this work in order to set your limit screws, especially the L-limit screw? If the derailleur has to, essentially, have a cable hooked up to it, how exactly do you set this derailleur up? In what order would I complete tasks to set it up?

    TIA!
    The offset pulley is actually an old feature that they brought back, I have a 15 year old M951 derailleur and some even older XT derailleurs with basically the same design. Sram also uses it. It doesn't really make setting up the derailleur any harder. First I would get the chain length set and install the chain, then you can set the limit for the 10t, and install the cable and get the shifting dialed in and set the other limit. The offset takes care of itself once the chain is installed.

  152. #152
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    To set it up properly
    1) put the smallest front ring you plan to use to determine chain by shortening 1 outer/inner link at a time until no slack in the small ring
    2) install chain
    3) set the high limit so that pulley is in line with small cog
    4) install cable and have the barrel adjust 6-8 clicks back counterclockwise from fully turned in clockwise
    5) shift to big cog/low gear and then hold lever on final shift, adjust low limit until pulley is online with largest cog
    6) now here is the pro tip to setting the b screw, shift down to the 4th largest cog and do a four gear shift back up and turn crank extremely slow
    7) adjust b screw until chain does not bind at all against big cog and then turn b screw 1/4 turn more. Perfect clearance
    8) you may have to tweak the upper and lower limits after to just past aligned to get a faster shift into end cogs
    9) adjust barrel adjust to get perfect shifting for you
    10) you can now use a bigger front ring 4 teeth (30-34t) larger without changing chain, just readjust b screw for each ring change which only takes seconds.

    I run a 30t oval in the mountains where I'm climbing 700-1000ft per mi and a 34t on XC courses. Have a 10-44 X01 custom cassette and full XTR mechanicals.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadadally View Post
    To set it up properly

    1) put the smallest front ring you plan to use to determine chain by shortening 1 outer/inner link at a time until no slack in the small ring

    .

    Im hoping you meant biggest front ring because chain can't magically get any longer.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Im hoping you meant biggest front ring because chain can't magically get any longer.
    No I mean smallest, BUT I also mean run it through the dérailleur. So therefore you have it taking up all the slack when you are in the smallest single you run up front and smallest back. This is different but since we are using 1x we can differ from the normal big big +1. Basically the dérailleur has slack capacity of 37t so if you put on a 30front and are in the 10 rear and remove a link at a time until the dérailleur is just barely engaged on the swing, you have 40t at your starting point. Thus you have 37t more to go in its ability to get magically longer using dérailleur swing forward. So a 44rear and 34 front is 78t. 78t-40t starting point equals 38t slack between your fastest setup and your climbing setup. My dérailleur handled it but just barely.

    This is the best way to avoid needing three chains for your various setups and have tension in your easiest gear in easiest setup.

  155. #155
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    Dogs and cats playing together

    It's been a long time coming, but it sounds like a lot of you have the same desires that we did: wanting Shimano ergonomics and shifting performance with the range and simplicity of a SRAM one-by-eleven setup.

    Seeing as it's on the Wolf Tooth Friendbook page, let's have a closer look:
    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-goatlink-11s44-v2.jpg

    That's right- for anyone looking to make their M9000 XTR or M8000 XT drivetrain play well with a 10-42t, 10-44t, or even 11-45t 11-sped cassettes, the Lindarets and Wolf Tooth team is back with a solution. After all, if you're spending XTR money, you should be getting XTR performance.

  156. #156
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    And what is the point / solution here? Are you referring to this :http://www.lindarets.com/liendechvre/ ? Shimano already supports and 11-42T cassette with their XTR RD-M9000 and RD-M8000 derailleurs, so why fix something that isn't broken? A 1T difference of 10 vs 11T isn't a big deal.

  157. #157
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    Madskatingcow,

    The solution is a replacement intermediate link- much like our original 10s GoatLink. Shimano initially specified a 40t max/11t min cog with M9000 derailleurs. Shimano really does engineer their parts to work beautifully within their ecosystem- but anything anything outside of that precisely-defined envelope can cause performance to suffer.

    Both increasing the size of the top cog and reducing the smallest makes a surprising difference in terms of free chain and chain wrap. Running an XX1 cassette with an M9000 rear derailleur results in roughly a 30% increase in the distance from the top pulley to bottom cog while chain wrap is reduced by about ten degrees. As others in this thread have noted, this results in decent -but not ideal- performance.

    Going out to larger and more exotic combinations (10-44, 11-44, 11-45), shifting degrades further- mostly because of the added B-screw required and increased distance between the top pulley and cassette that results.

    So that's it- the result brings free chain distances back to stock when using a 10-42 cassette while significantly improving performance with bigger options (I'm running a 10-44 on my trail bike and it provides a much appreciated bailout gear). It's not a huge difference- but neither is the difference between SLX and XT, XT and XTR- but a lot of people (myself included ) still choose XTR.

  158. #158
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    Just built a Pivot Mach4c with XTR RD/shifter, XX1 cassette, KMC11SL chain, RF Next SL cranks. Had problems with the chain dropping down 2-3 gears when pedaling backwards in the 42t cog. Swapping out the chain for a SRAM PC-XX1 resolved the problem. Compared the 2 chains and noticed the KMC chain had quite a bit more side play. The extra side play was allowing the chain to move down to the smaller cog due to the chain line offset.

  159. #159
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    I always imagined that more side play makes it harder for the chain to jump to the next cog. Hence the degradation of shifting as a chain wears.

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    I always imagined that more side play makes it harder for the chain to jump to the next cog. Hence the degradation of shifting as a chain wears.
    You are correct.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlin01 View Post
    Just built a Pivot Mach4c with XTR RD/shifter, XX1 cassette, KMC11SL chain, RF Next SL cranks. Had problems with the chain dropping down 2-3 gears when pedaling backwards in the 42t cog. Swapping out the chain for a SRAM PC-XX1 resolved the problem. Compared the 2 chains and noticed the KMC chain had quite a bit more side play. The extra side play was allowing the chain to move down to the smaller cog due to the chain line offset.
    Why are you back pedaling? Changing the chain seems like an unnecessary response to an unnecessary action.

  162. #162
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    It's not a huge deal but I prefer not to have the chain jump cogs if pedaled backwards. There are situations, like starting out on a steep hill, where I want the pedal in a certain position and pedaling backwards is the easiest way to get it there..

  163. #163
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    So what's the difference between the new XT and XTR that allows the XT to work with a 42t cog while the XTR only works with a 40t

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt116 View Post
    So what's the difference between the new XT and XTR that allows the XT to work with a 42t cog while the XTR only works with a 40t
    XTR RD-M9000 is officialy listed as 42T compatible, see here

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    XTR RD-M9000 is officialy listed as 42T compatible, see here
    O ok haven't seen that doc before
    Thanks

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    XTR RD-M9000 is officialy listed as 42T compatible, see here
    That's interesting and I'm glad to see it.

    Oddly enough, I called Shimano three days ago and asked about this, exactly. The guy I spoke with said that only the SGS cage was compatible with 11-42t.

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by SikeMo View Post
    That's interesting and I'm glad to see it.

    Oddly enough, I called Shimano three days ago and asked about this, exactly. The guy I spoke with said that only the SGS cage was compatible with 11-42t.
    I run GS (medium cage) with SRAM's XX1 cassette, works fine.

    If you run 1x11, you'll be fine with mid cage. If you're going with 2x11, getting long cage will be a safer bet.

  168. #168
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    Yeah, that's what I was originally thinking. Now I've got to return the SGS version I just ordered. Better now than after I install it!

  169. #169
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    All my parts arrived today
    XT Crank with 32t chainring
    XT 11-42 cassette
    XTR shifter
    XTR GS derailleur
    Hopefully I can get it installed tonight, will report back tomorrow how it works

  170. #170
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    Where did you order your parts from?

    I was told that none of the XT M8000 parts would be available until the end of August. Once again, bad information.

  171. #171
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    Jenson & Pricepoint

  172. #172
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    I'm curious what you think of the XTR shifters. I have them on my Pivot Les Fat. They are a little stiffer than the 10 speed XT on my other bike. But shifting is excellent.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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  173. #173
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    Rather than start my own thread, I figured you guys would be my best resource here to ask this question. I've never set up a mid cage derailleur before, and I'm not sure if this is right. This is what it looks like on my 10T cog only. Heck, it looks way extended already. Can you guys confirm this is right? I've got the derailleur attached correctly....I believe....with the "step" on the RD right up to the step on the derailleur hanger. I'm just looking for some confirmation that this looks correct at the absolute minimum chain needed.....that derailleur sure looks stretched already.

    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-hspdydch.jpg
    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-blhqsbjh.jpg
    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-3keqxwwh.jpg
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  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Rather than start my own thread, I figured you guys would be my best resource here to ask this question. I've never set up a mid cage derailleur before, and I'm not sure if this is right. This is what it looks like on my 10T cog only. Heck, it looks way extended already. Can you guys confirm this is right? I've got the derailleur attached correctly....I believe....with the "step" on the RD right up to the step on the derailleur hanger. I'm just looking for some confirmation that this looks correct at the absolute minimum chain needed.....that derailleur sure looks stretched already.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Which aftermarket top cog are you running? That looks like OneUp's 44t, and a 10-44 is a lot to ask of a stock XTR rear derailleur. Even so, it looks like you've got too much B-screw, but it'd be hard to set it correctly without the cable in place and the derailleur in its top position.

    Marc Lindarets

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecanoe View Post
    I'm curious what you think of the XTR shifters. I have them on my Pivot Les Fat. They are a little stiffer than the 10 speed XT on my other bike. But shifting is excellent.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I previously had 10speed XTR, The new 11speed XTR is definitely stiffer especially going to higher gears

  176. #176
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    I had no problems making the XTR-M9000 derailleur work with the XT-M8000 11-42 cassette. Still have 9mm of B screw adjustment left.
    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-fullsizerender%5B1%5D.jpg

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lindarets View Post
    Which aftermarket top cog are you running? That looks like OneUp's 44t, and a 10-44 is a lot to ask of a stock XTR rear derailleur. Even so, it looks like you've got too much B-screw, but it'd be hard to set it correctly without the cable in place and the derailleur in its top position.

    Marc Lindarets
    Yes, XX1 cassette with OneUp 44T. I was hesitant to try the XTR RD as well in mid-cage, but had several folks on this very thread say they run that same setup w/o issue. So it put my mind at ease. I went with the XTR because I love, love, love my XTR brakes, and love the way Shimano does their i-Spec configurations. So using my XTR brakes with an XX1 RD and shifter didn't appeal to me. I've just not used a mid- or short-cage RD before, so I just wanted to make sure it was supposed to be that stretched so far in just my very first gear. Looked excessive to me, but that's because my only image is from my old M985 long cage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt116 View Post
    I had no problems making the XTR-M9000 derailleur work with the XT-M8000 11-42 cassette. Still have 9mm of B screw adjustment left.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's great news. Getting it to work on my 44T cog shouldn't be an issue then.
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  178. #178
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    The above pic is with a GS (medium cage) when shifted to high gear there isn't much tension on the chain. You may need a SGS long cage with a 44t

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Rather than start my own thread, I figured you guys would be my best resource here to ask this question. I've never set up a mid cage derailleur before, and I'm not sure if this is right. This is what it looks like on my 10T cog only. Heck, it looks way extended already. Can you guys confirm this is right? I've got the derailleur attached correctly....I believe....with the "step" on the RD right up to the step on the derailleur hanger. I'm just looking for some confirmation that this looks correct at the absolute minimum chain needed.....that derailleur sure looks stretched already.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Doesn't look good to me. I'm looking at a photo of my bike, your cage is in the same position as mine but my chain is in the middle of the cassette.

    If the chain is too short, DON'T re-use the old pins and put links back in. The chain will break under load and possibly cause you a world of hurt.

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Doesn't look good to me. I'm looking at a photo of my bike, your cage is in the same position as mine but my chain is in the middle of the cassette.

    If the chain is too short, DON'T re-use the old pins and put links back in. The chain will break under load and possibly cause you a world of hurt.
    When I last had this chain installed, I was running an XX1 RD and a 36T front ring. I dropped to a 34T front and went with the XTR RD this time. I measured the chain and only took out two links. I haven't really done anything else just yet with the drivetrain, just mocked it up on the RD and thought it looked a bit overstretched. We'll see how it goes once I hook up the cable and tinker with the B-screw.
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  181. #181
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    So I got my chain installed today and started tuning the derailleur. I am having one heck of a time getting the chain to downshift from the 44T to the 36T (11th to 10th gear). The bike shifts flawlessly from 1st to 11th gear, but coming from 11 to 10 doesn't work. I think the problem is just like you guys were stating earlier which is that the KMC chain is actually too "flexible" and has too much play side-to-side. I say that because when I look at the derailleur in the 10th gear, the chain essentially just "bends" instead of downshifting.

    Any thoughts or recommendations for a fix other than going to an XX1 chain? I like my gold chain.....
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  182. #182
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    That's typically a problem when the distance between upper derailleur pulley and the cogs is too big.

  183. #183
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    Also, just double check the whole gear cable run for smoothness. I had a devil of a time with that 42-36 change sticking until I found one tiny place where the gear cable had a lot of friction. Correcting that fixed the 42-36 drop right away.

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    That's typically a problem when the distance between upper derailleur pulley and the cogs is too big.
    I was actually noticing last night that if I get the chain up to the 44T cog, and then set the B-screw to 5-6mm as instructed by Shimano, when I shift back down to 7th or 8th gear it works OK. BUT, when I upshift back to 36T and try to get to the 44T then, the upper pulley is now actually hitting the 44T cog. It's almost as if the B-screw doesn't "remember" where to bring the pulley

    Every time I've built a bike, I've almost always built the entire thing and then take it to a mechanic and pay for the alignment. I just can never seem to figure out how the H/L, B-screw, cable tension and barrel adjusters all work together to get it working flawlessly. I take it in, pay them.....and walk out with a functioning bike

    Quote Originally Posted by jimification View Post
    Also, just double check the whole gear cable run for smoothness. I had a devil of a time with that 42-36 change sticking until I found one tiny place where the gear cable had a lot of friction. Correcting that fixed the 42-36 drop right away.
    Wouldn't this problem area show up when I downshift to other gears outside of just the 44T to the 36T?
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  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post

    Wouldn't this problem area show up when I downshift to other gears outside of just the 44T to the 36T?
    Not necessarily, since the 44 to 36 is the most difficult (biggest) jump, it might need a little extra snappiness from the derailleur move, where the other jumps can get by with a slightly sluggish derailleur. (just a thought. I understand that if the derailleur moves to the correct position, the chain should shift. Don't know how much a faster moving derailleur can actually help).

  186. #186
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    Maybe you need the Goatlink posted earlier here ? I posted the URL a little higher above the post.

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    So I got my chain installed today and started tuning the derailleur. I am having one heck of a time getting the chain to downshift from the 44T to the 36T (11th to 10th gear). The bike shifts flawlessly from 1st to 11th gear, but coming from 11 to 10 doesn't work. I think the problem is just like you guys were stating earlier which is that the KMC chain is actually too "flexible" and has too much play side-to-side. I say that because when I look at the derailleur in the 10th gear, the chain essentially just "bends" instead of downshifting.

    Any thoughts or recommendations for a fix other than going to an XX1 chain? I like my gold chain.....
    If the 44t is a separate cog, I would add a thin spacer between the 36t and 44t. By thin, I mean something along the lines of 2 layers of aluminum foil; more layers as needed. I do my own custom cassettes with custom spacing so sometimes do this to fine-tune the spacing. I actually use adhesive-backed aluminum heat shielding from the auto parts store for this, sold in rolls about the size of duct tape.

    The limit screw will determine the alignment on the 44t. Then when you shift from the 44t to the 36t, the overall derailleur adjustment will determine the alignment on the 36t. If the gears are further apart, the chain is much more likely to drop off the 44t.

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    Not necessarily, since the 44 to 36 is the most difficult (biggest) jump, it might need a little extra snappiness from the derailleur move, where the other jumps can get by with a slightly sluggish derailleur. (just a thought. I understand that if the derailleur moves to the correct position, the chain should shift. Don't know how much a faster moving derailleur can actually help).
    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Maybe you need the Goatlink posted earlier here ? I posted the URL a little higher above the post.
    I googled the goatlink and saw it's only listed on Wolf Tooth's page for 10speed. I'm running 1x11.

    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    If the 44t is a separate cog, I would add a thin spacer between the 36t and 44t. By thin, I mean something along the lines of 2 layers of aluminum foil; more layers as needed. I do my own custom cassettes with custom spacing so sometimes do this to fine-tune the spacing. I actually use adhesive-backed aluminum heat shielding from the auto parts store for this, sold in rolls about the size of duct tape.

    The limit screw will determine the alignment on the 44t. Then when you shift from the 44t to the 36t, the overall derailleur adjustment will determine the alignment on the 36t. If the gears are further apart, the chain is much more likely to drop off the 44t.
    yikes.....not sure how much work I really wanna put into this to add only 2 extra teeth....
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  189. #189
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    Well, if you look at the post by Marc Lindarets, one post above my link, he talks about the XTR 9000 and XT 8000 11s in combination with the Goatlink.

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    I have just built up my 1x11 setup with a Shimano M9000 shifter and derailleur w/SRAM 10-42 cassette and chain. B screw adjustment needed minimal to accommodate 42t cog. Shifting is excellent on shakedown ride - I will test further but cannot see any issues thus far. I like the gear range of SRAM and the shifting of Shimano (notably the ability to shift down two gears at a time when cresting a hill) XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-sc_tb2_build.jpg- however I do miss the lightness of the SRAM shifters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusJackSlade View Post
    I have just built up my 1x11 setup with a Shimano M9000 shifter and derailleur w/SRAM 10-42 cassette and chain. B screw adjustment needed minimal to accommodate 42t cog. Shifting is excellent on shakedown ride - I will test further but cannot see any issues thus far. I like the gear range of SRAM and the shifting of Shimano (notably the ability to shift down two gears at a time when cresting a hill) Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SC_TB2_Build.jpg 
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ID:	1006354- however I do miss the lightness of the SRAM shifters.
    No offence or anything personal at all, but that is one weird looking bike. Those lefty forks always trip me out. You must bomb a lot of XC trips?
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  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lindarets View Post
    Madskatingcow,

    The solution is a replacement intermediate link- much like our original 10s GoatLink. Shimano initially specified a 40t max/11t min cog with M9000 derailleurs. Shimano really does engineer their parts to work beautifully within their ecosystem- but anything anything outside of that precisely-defined envelope can cause performance to suffer.

    Both increasing the size of the top cog and reducing the smallest makes a surprising difference in terms of free chain and chain wrap. Running an XX1 cassette with an M9000 rear derailleur results in roughly a 30% increase in the distance from the top pulley to bottom cog while chain wrap is reduced by about ten degrees. As others in this thread have noted, this results in decent -but not ideal- performance.

    Going out to larger and more exotic combinations (10-44, 11-44, 11-45), shifting degrades further- mostly because of the added B-screw required and increased distance between the top pulley and cassette that results.

    So that's it- the result brings free chain distances back to stock when using a 10-42 cassette while significantly improving performance with bigger options (I'm running a 10-44 on my trail bike and it provides a much appreciated bailout gear). It's not a huge difference- but neither is the difference between SLX and XT, XT and XTR- but a lot of people (myself included ) still choose XTR.
    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Well, if you look at the post by Marc Lindarets, one post above my link, he talks about the XTR 9000 and XT 8000 11s in combination with the Goatlink.
    Interesting. So does the GOATlink attach right to the derailleur hanger, and then the derailleur to the GOATlink? If I'm going to run a 10-44T cassette, I might need to give this a shot.
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  193. #193
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    According to this article, the GOATlink does not support 11s Shimano derailleurs...

    Lindarets X Wolf Tooth Components GoatLink Improves Wide Range 1x Shifting for Shimano Derailleurs
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  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    According to this article, the GOATlink does not support 11s Shimano derailleurs...

    Lindarets X Wolf Tooth Components GoatLink Improves Wide Range 1x Shifting for Shimano Derailleurs
    Why not ask Mark directly and inform us? He's a forum member

    Quote Originally Posted by CactusJackSlade View Post
    I like the gear range of SRAM and the shifting of Shimano (notably the ability to shift down two gears at a time when cresting a hill) - however I do miss the lightness of the SRAM shifters.
    Same here - I've done about 1000km in dry weather conditions on my XTR / XX1 setup without issues.

    • The force required for downshifting has increased over time, and upshift is pretty cluncky - everything was a little smoother when first setup. Could be due to the coating of the lined inner cable wearing out.
    • In the past, XTR was always a lot smoother than SRAM's shifting. But now it seems to be the other way around. The tension of the derailleur clutch probably plays some part in Shimano's system.
    • Another thing I'm not that fond of is the very long lever throw required for downshifting compared to SRAM. Especially when in the middle of the cassette you like to downshift four gears at a time to the 42T, my thumb slipped off the lever a couple of times. SRAM let's you shift five gears at a time, shorter lever throw and less force required.
    • XTR HG-900 chain has less play sideways compared to the XX1 chain. As a result, as of 32T all the way to 42T in the back, the chain becomes noisy. Switched back to an XX1 chain, issue solved.
    • I've been running the XTR FC-M9000 1x11 crank with a 30T chainring. When applying torque riding uphill, you can clearly hear the chain engaging and disengaging from the tooth due to their specific profile everytime you push down the pedals.


    Currently I'm in the middle whether or not seting up my new bike with XX1 all the way. It seems to me that SRAM's design is very well executed for 1x11. Compared to XTR it runs quieter and smoother ... when it works. Initially there was a lot of cassette creaking and derailleur clunking, gripshifts failing, etc. But the newer 2.1 components seem to have these issues fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Interesting. So does the GOATlink attach right to the derailleur hanger, and then the derailleur to the GOATlink? If I'm going to run a 10-44T cassette, I might need to give this a shot.
    You're right- the original GoatLink (10s42) is only compatible with 10s Shimano drivetrains. We do have something in the works (linked above) that we'll be able to talk about more within a few weeks. Sorry it's taken so long- just trying to balance manufacturing priorities. Still, we're pretty sure that you'll be very pleased.

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    That's a good looking bike! Looks like just the thing for multi-day stage racing. Are those Middleburn cranks?

    We do need to get you on a ReMount, though

  197. #197
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    Got this as dialed in tonight as I think it's going to get. Quite the stretch in 44T.
    XTR 11-speed shifter/derailleur with XX1 cassette-yqjyfo4h.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lindarets View Post
    You're right- the original GoatLink (10s42) is only compatible with 10s Shimano drivetrains. We do have something in the works (linked above) that we'll be able to talk about more within a few weeks. Sorry it's taken so long- just trying to balance manufacturing priorities. Still, we're pretty sure that you'll be very pleased.
    Thanks for chiming in again. I'm taking this bike on its maiden voyage in Bend this coming week, so we'll see how it fares in current shifting situation. Once you finalize and make public the link for 11s options, PM me and maybe I'll pick one up.
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  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    I was actually noticing last night that if I get the chain up to the 44T cog, and then set the B-screw to 5-6mm as instructed by Shimano, when I shift back down to 7th or 8th gear it works OK. BUT, when I upshift back to 36T and try to get to the 44T then, the upper pulley is now actually hitting the 44T cog. It's almost as if the B-screw doesn't "remember" where to bring the pulley

    Every time I've built a bike, I've almost always built the entire thing and then take it to a mechanic and pay for the alignment. I just can never seem to figure out how the H/L, B-screw, cable tension and barrel adjusters all work together to get it working flawlessly. I take it in, pay them.....and walk out with a functioning bike ?
    Aye, there's the rub. When I do it, it takes hours and is comparable to building a wheel. Little adjustment here ruins adjustment there. Bicycle whack-a-mole.

    OTOH, my son who worked as a mechanic in a Colorado shop part time while in college, can make everything mesh perfectly seemingly in seconds. A marvel to behold. He burnt out wrenching for others when members of his road racing team kept dumping bikes off on him to set up. For free of course. It wasn't as though he had the time and patience to attend to it even if paid. So he only does his own stuff anymore, but will help out the old man and the old lady in a pinch


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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Aye, there's the rub. When I do it, it takes hours and is comparable to building a wheel. Little adjustment here ruins adjustment there. Bicycle whack-a-mole.

    OTOH, my son who worked as a mechanic in a Colorado shop part time while in college, can make everything mesh perfectly seemingly in seconds. A marvel to behold. He burnt out wrenching for others when members of his road racing team kept dumping bikes off on him to set up. For free of course. It wasn't as though he had the time and patience to attend to it even if paid. So he only does his own stuff anymore, but will help out the old man and the old lady in a pinch

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    Absolutely. Derailleur adjustments are not a skillset I maintain. You're right, one little tweak here or there and you gotta start that $hit all over again. That's actually one of the exact reasons I jumped to 1x11, I was losing sanity dealing with front derailleur tuning.

    I also feel like I should be completely dousing my cassette and chain in grease/thick gunk instead of just a dry lube.
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    anyone try the one up 45 rear on the new xtr?

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