What's wrong with these brand new Race Face Atlas cranks?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    What's wrong with these brand new Race Face Atlas cranks?

    They're only $118 shipped, from within the US. That seems too good to be true. But they're listed for $254 at Competitive Cyclist.

    Are these some previous, discontinued version, or something?

    https://www.ebay.com/p/26012042088?iid=193101353869
    Last edited by A. Rider; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:52 AM.

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    Nope, they are just fighting competition. I would buy these over those

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/GXP-170mm-C...e0d69275f8e39f

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Nope, they are just fighting competition. I would buy these over those

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/GXP-170mm-C...e0d69275f8e39f
    But why? Those couldn't be more generic.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Nope, they are just fighting competition. I would buy these over those

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/GXP-170mm-C...e0d69275f8e39f
    I'd buy 'em if my name was Jessica.

    It isn't.
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  5. #5
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    But would you buy those Atlas cranks, even if your name wasn't Atlas, for only $118?

  6. #6
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    By golly I imagine I would if I wanted some blue cranks. As it is, I already bought some black ones.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    But would you buy those Atlas cranks, even if your name wasn't Atlas, for only $118?
    If my name was Atlas Rider?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    But why?

    Low price point for the weight. Please explain how the raceface crankset is superior to the ones I posted. That is my point. Both work identical, but one cost double.

    Generic? so are raceface, even more so

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Low price point for the weight. Please explain how the raceface crankset is superior to the ones I posted. That is my point. Both work identical, but one cost double.

    Generic? so are raceface, even more so
    Well, the Race Face one is 7050 alloy, compared to the 7075 of the generic one. So according to the minimum yield strength charts, it's over 20% stronger, which could be significant.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Generic? so are raceface, even more so
    I guess everything is generic then.

    I might just buy a Walmart bike now instead next time, come to think of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Well, the Race Face one is 7050 alloy, compared to the 7075 of the generic one. .
    Both 7050 aluminum and 7075-T6 aluminum are aluminum alloys. Their average alloy composition is basically identical.

    It is not 20% stronger.

    7075 aluminium alloy (also known as aircraft aluminium or aerospace aluminium) was the first alloy of high strength composed by Al-Zn-Mg-Cu that was able to successfully combine the perks of the inclusion of chromium to develop high stress-corrosion cracking resistance

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post

    I might just buy a Walmart bike now instead next time, come to think of it.
    I see you could not answer the question, why is the raceface one better? is it twice as light and strong? since its twice the price?

    There is no comparing wally world crap, just because the price is lower. Weight is the same performance is the same, one just cost double LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    I see you could not answer the question, why is the raceface one better? is it twice as light and strong? since its twice the price?

    There is no comparing wally world crap, just because the price is lower. Weight is the same performance is the same, one just cost double LOL
    Fashion and reputation come into play as well. I can't deny that I don't like a cobbled together looking bike, so if blue was my theme, I'd cheerfully pay $118 for the blue cranks.

    Far more important is company rep and warranty. Does anyone doubt that RaceFace does more R&D or will support their products better than Jessica? Personally I'd rather buy one quality product at twice the price than two unrecognizable ones and half price each.

    We all have to make our own way on this. Outhouse, I doubt I'll sway your opinion and I'm not even trying to. But rest assured that you won't sway mine, either. I hope we're both fine with this.

    In the end, we each build our own bike. What could be better than the freedom to do so?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    . Outhouse, I doubt I'll sway your opinion and I'm not even trying to. But rest assured that you won't sway mine, either. I hope we're both fine with this.
    Its all good, everything I generally own is top notch, I usually buy the best of everything. But at some point for me function takes over.

    We stress test parts being sponsored for the factory, and we end up running what we need that works, nothing else really matters. We just try and improve what the factory screwed up on. That's my mentality on these parts.

    I bought the cheaper set of IFX crankset same Chinese type manufacturer, because they had good reviews and the same light weight as name brands. After dirt testing them, and have no reason to upgrade. I normally buy the best, but some corners can be cut without sacrificing quality on a MTB.

    OP asked why are they so cheap whats wrong ? that's the context here, and the real reason is race face is not top tier, and they are competing against a lot of competition

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    But would you buy those Atlas cranks, even if your name wasn't Atlas, for only $118?
    No. There's too much shady shit going on with ebay. Who's the seller? How are they able to sell stuff for so much less than everybody else who sells a particular item?

    1. I won't buy them because ebay. The risks of getting counterfeit, substandard product are too high (risking life and limb, quite seriously), to be worth the potential cost savings. Concerns about getting warranty service are real.
    2. The seller sells mostly motorcycle stuff. And apparently super cheap motorcycle stuff, at that. Plus some random bike parts (also mostly super cheap junk). Nope.

    ebay is where I go for things I simply cannot find anywhere else, and it's one place I also look when I'm interested in refurbished electronics. It's not where I go to save some money on bike parts. There are better ways to do that, and know you're getting something legit with customer support. Plus, I don't like how ebay has changed its policies over the years such that sellers are almost entirely unprotected from shitty buyers (in auctions, at least).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    No. There's too much shady shit going on with ebay.
    At least they are better then some of the Chinese owned sites. You can get better protection there, IF you know what your looking for and haver common sense.

    I done with aliexpress, talk about shady. To return an item you have to do a video of the defective part for a simple return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    I guess everything is generic then.

    I might just buy a Walmart bike now instead next time, come to think of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    I see you could not answer the question, why is the raceface one better? is it twice as light and strong? since its twice the price?

    There is no comparing wally world crap, just because the price is lower. Weight is the same performance is the same, one just cost double LOL
    I was being facetious.

    (Race Face-tious... er, sorry)
    Last edited by A. Rider; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:22 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Both 7050 aluminum and 7075-T6 aluminum are aluminum alloys. Their average alloy composition is basically identical.

    It is not 20% stronger.

    7075 aluminium alloy (also known as aircraft aluminium or aerospace aluminium) was the first alloy of high strength composed by Al-Zn-Mg-Cu that was able to successfully combine the perks of the inclusion of chromium to develop high stress-corrosion cracking resistance
    The chart I have shows a minimum yield strength of 56,000psi and 68,000psi for 7075 and 7050, respectively. Of course, you are hoping that Jessica's cranks are what they actually claim to be, that forged alloy. With RF, you know you are getting it. I willl be the first to admit that functional cranks doesn't take much, a good I-beam or C-section crank is plenty stiff and if a decent alloy is used, it will work just as well. $100 cranks can work just as well as $500 cranks, so I totally agree with you there. Cranks are pretty simple, like headsets.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Well, I took a gamble and ordered the Atlas crankset, and also a matching 1x chainring, from that very eBay seller. Total was $156 even, shipped.

    I'll let you know if I got burned. Else, assume it was a legit, good find.

    (BTW, I got a 5% discount from that seller for buying both the crankset and chainring in the same purchase.)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Nope, they are just fighting competition. I would buy these over those

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/GXP-170mm-C...e0d69275f8e39f
    What kind of warranty do those cranks come with? I would never buy anything off of eBay...let alone a company Iíve never heard of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    What kind of warranty do those cranks come with? I would never buy anything off of eBay...let alone a company Iíve never heard of.
    Ya, what exactly on a set of cranks would need a warranty? you ever set a crankset back for warranty issues LOL

    Ebay is fine if you know what your doing.

  22. #22
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    eBay sucks

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    They're only $118 shipped, from within the US. That seems too good to be true. But they're listed for $254 at Competitive Cyclist.

    Are these some previous, discontinued version, or something?

    https://www.ebay.com/p/26012042088?iid=193101353869
    not 100% sure but they may be for 83 mm bottom bracket

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    What kind of warranty do those cranks come with?
    Probably the biggest concern with stuff bought on ebay. Some manufacturers outright refuse to warranty stuff bought through grey market channels (ebay is one of them). The only time I'd be willing to buy bike stuff from ebay would be if it's an established bike or outdoor products retailer with an established retail presence that uses ebay for clearance items. That happens often enough. But you have to be careful about the sellers. The one in this case? Definitely not that. They appear to be a reseller that focuses most heavily on motorcycle stuff, and particularly from cheap chinese brands. They probably found these RF cranks (and some of the other name brand products they have) somewhere like aliexpress and are serving simply as a reseller.

    Quote Originally Posted by be1 View Post
    not 100% sure but they may be for 83 mm bottom bracket
    Those cranks are available with a variety of different spindles (which can be changed if you got the wrong one). Not as many options as the Next/Turbine cranks, but I do agree that it isn't clear which spindle these include. Yet another problem with buying bike stuff from someone who has no clue about bike stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Ya, what exactly on a set of cranks would need a warranty? you ever set a crankset back for warranty issues LOL

    Ebay is fine if you know what your doing.
    I know plenty of occasions where people have had failures of their crank. Carbon cranks most commonly, of course. But any product can potentially have a need for warranty support. Honestly, in this case, I think the greater risk is that you wind up with a counterfeit product. Those are WELL KNOWN to frequently not be made as well as the product they're ripping off. It's how they're sold for so much less. Damn near anything is available counterfeited.

    I was given a counterfeit Rolex once (a really cheap and obvious one). Those have such a long history of being counterfeited that there are really bad ones as well as halfway decent ones. I worked at an outdoor retail store years ago and a customer had a blown seam on a North Face jacket. We sent it to TNF for repair and they wouldn't touch it because it wasn't actually theirs. It was counterfeit. Repair, not warranty.

    It doesn't matter if you think you "know what you're doing" on ebay. Use it too much and you're going to get burned eventually because the sellers continually get better at deceiving customers. They do better at that on ebay than they do on aliexpress. It's getting the same way on Amazon, too. Those same sellers are putting up Amazon storefronts so now the same junk can be purchased there, too. It's easier to tease out the legit stuff on Amazon, but it's still something you need to watch for.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Those cranks are available with a variety of different spindles (which can be changed if you got the wrong one). Not as many options as the Next/Turbine cranks, but I do agree that it isn't clear which spindle these include. Yet another problem with buying bike stuff from someone who has no clue about bike stuff.
    i only say 83mm because of the part number (has 83 in it - CK16A83A170BLU). comparing that to similar cranks, they don't have 83 in the part number and cost more. so, if you have to buy the correct spindle - assuming you don't need 83 - it makes them less of a bargain.

    i would avoid because of the uncertainty of the listing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by be1 View Post
    i only say 83mm because of the part number (has 83 in it - CK16A83A170BLU). comparing that to similar cranks, they don't have 83 in the part number and cost more. so, if you have to buy the correct spindle - assuming you don't need 83 - it makes them less of a bargain.

    i would avoid because of the uncertainty of the listing...
    Damn, thanks for catching that. I wish I got that info within the last 12 hours since I ordered it. I was able to call them, but the order "went through" and the woman said I would need to return them once I received the package.

    She was very courteous and professional, and when she had first begun looking for my order in her system, not being able to locate it right away, I realized at that moment that she didn't know it was through an eBay purchase. So it appears they are some sort of brick-and-mortar store. Once I interrupted her about that she said "oh, okay... you'll need to process that return through eBay". I then told her about how the item description didn't have the relevant info it should have; she seemed concerned and said that she was making a note of that.

    At this point, after getting what seemed a professional response, I don't have too much concern that I'll get a refund. Of course, until I do I am sweating it just a bit. And I do need to pay shipping to return it, which sucks.

    Oh well, live and learn. $118 was too good to be true (unless I had an 83mm BB shell, that is).

    Edit: Of course now I'm considering just buying the correct spindle length, since these cranks are so modular.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    It doesn't matter if you think you "know what you're doing" on ebay. Use it too much and you're going to get burned.
    Ive been on it Ebay for a very long time buying car parts and motorcycle parts, to date over a decade, I have never been burned. I use daily. Bought some cat treats that never got sent and Ebay had my money back in a few days. Bought my balanced and blueprinted LS7 rotating assembly there for a 624hp engine I drove to work this morning. The beauty of Ebay is you get protection you wont from aliexpress or other companies. To date, never had to use paypal to solve anything or my CC. I did get a CD that had the right jacket but wrong disk inside, and was refunded the day I received it. The trick is to be an intelligent shopper, and be aware. There is a lot of crap on there, and you just have to be smarter than the people selling. Its not too hard not to buy blindly based on price alone.

    Context is and I agree with you, there is no reason for OP to pay double when these real RF cranks that can be had at close to half price, if he is dead set on this set of cranks. AND [edit] they are the right size, guess they are not. Would I buy these from a Chinese seller in China if they were $45 hell no. that's how you avoid scammers. Common sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    and the woman said I would need to return them once I received the package.

    .
    Trick here is to not accept the package, refuse deliver if you can catch the delivery man. If its fed ex or ups, you can call them while its in transit and refuse delivery so you do not have to pay return fee's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Trick here is to not accept the package, refuse deliver if you can catch the delivery man. If its fed ex or ups, you can call them while its in transit and refuse delivery so you do not have to pay return fee's.
    I was not aware of that. If I get a Fedex or UPS tracking notice I'll give them a call to stop shipment then.

    So when sellers receive packages back this way they will just immediately refund the order, or will it just stall the whole refund for god-knows-how-long?

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post

    So when sellers receive packages back this way they will just immediately refund the order, or will it just stall the whole refund for god-knows-how-long?
    The tracking number will show when they get it back, and like any return, they will process it, and refund you.

  31. #31
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    Threre are definitely shady sellers on ebay, but this appears legit enough (US seller, good rep). They probably got them someplace cheap...maybe an auction, closed bike shop or whatever and did what they could to put up a description that included the MPN, which is easy enough to google. Even their name, "ibuy.isell", says reseller. If I were looking for cranks I would have asked BEFORE making the purchase if I wasn't certain it would work for my application.

    The worst part of ebay isn't shady sellers. It's how ebay treats all of their sellers...but I'll save that rant for a different thread.
    :nono: :thumbsup:

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    Edit: Of course now I'm considering just buying the correct spindle length, since these cranks are so modular.
    Maybe you can find the spindle for super cheap on ebay!
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    Edit: Of course now I'm considering just buying the correct spindle length, since these cranks are so modular.
    yes. that's certainly an option. not sure how much a spindle costs. could still be an okay price. and again i am just guessing about the 83mm thing. i just dont know for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by be1 View Post
    yes. that's certainly an option. not sure how much a spindle costs. could still be an okay price. and again i am just guessing about the 83mm thing. i just dont know for sure.
    I googled that part number and got hits from other sellers with that item, and sure enough it's a spindle for an 83mm shell. I'm annoyed with myself that I didn't do that earlier, but the item description included info for the weight for a crank that had a spindle for a 68/73mm shell, so I assumed the crank for sale had that length spindle too. It was dumb, and I should have known better and googled that encrypted part number in the first place. Oh well.

    And so I've googled around for the spindle length I would need, and I can't find one for a very common 68/73mm shell length, that's for the non-Boost Atlas crank arms, and they're not cheap, negating any cost savings I intended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by be1 View Post
    i am just guessing about the 83mm thing. i just dont know for sure.
    I verified it as well , that # goes to a 83 part number

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Trick here is to not accept the package, refuse deliver if you can catch the delivery man. If its fed ex or ups, you can call them while its in transit and refuse delivery so you do not have to pay return fee's.
    Well, I just called Fedex and provided the tracking number they just provided and they said it's being returned to the shipper. I was given a Fedex case ID# too. I hope I didn't make this a bigger can of worms and I just receive a prompt refund now.

    I assume I should follow through with cancelling via eBay, or should I hold off on that since I blocked the shipment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Ive been on it Ebay for a very long time buying car parts and motorcycle parts, to date over a decade, I have never been burned. I use daily. Bought some cat treats that never got sent and Ebay had my money back in a few days. Bought my balanced and blueprinted LS7 rotating assembly there for a 624hp engine I drove to work this morning. The beauty of Ebay is you get protection you wont from aliexpress or other companies. To date, never had to use paypal to solve anything or my CC. I did get a CD that had the right jacket but wrong disk inside, and was refunded the day I received it. The trick is to be an intelligent shopper, and be aware. There is a lot of crap on there, and you just have to be smarter than the people selling. Its not too hard not to buy blindly based on price alone.

    Context is and I agree with you, there is no reason for OP to pay double when these real RF cranks that can be had at close to half price, if he is dead set on this set of cranks. AND [edit] they are the right size, guess they are not. Would I buy these from a Chinese seller in China if they were $45 hell no. that's how you avoid scammers. Common sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    The worst part of ebay isn't shady sellers. It's how ebay treats all of their sellers...but I'll save that rant for a different thread.
    There's certainly a huge spectrum of possibilities when you're looking at places like ebay. Counterfeit product is a worst case scenario, but it's not the only possible negative outcome. Glad the OP was able to speak to a person in the US and get a little help. But this is one of those intermediate somewhat-negative possibilities where you've got a reseller who doesn't REALLY know the product they're selling in depth. Not only do you have to be "smarter" than the seller, but you need to have more technical knowledge about the specific product (which is not the same thing) if you're going to catch these things. You at least need to know what to look for. In this case, the listing appears to be an honest mistake and not an attempt to deceive. But you have to catch those, too, clearly.

    Yes, ebay treats its sellers like crap. I've had an account with ebay for somewhere close to 20yrs now. The only time I've been "burned" in a purchase was a time I believe I received a counterfeit brake rotor. It's just a piece of stamped steel with low potential for failure (even if it was counterfeit), but I just don't buy bike stuff there anymore unless it's clearly a regular person's used item they're selling themselves. I try to avoid resellers who don't actually know what they have (or care enough to figure it out). I HAVE been left high and dry as a seller more than once because of ebay's terrible policies for sellers, though. I'm sure that has driven ebay's change from a place comprised mostly of people selling their used items when I first signed up to now where it's primarily a marketplace for resellers, most of whom buy cheap junk from Asia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    I googled that part number and got hits from other sellers with that item, and sure enough it's a spindle for an 83mm shell. I'm annoyed with myself that I didn't do that earlier, but the item description included info for the weight for a crank that had a spindle for a 68/73mm shell, so I assumed the crank for sale had that length spindle too.
    you may have a case for the description not matching the item.
    it seems a bit misleading.
    IMO it needs to say something like "this item has spindle length xx"

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    Well, I just called Fedex and provided the tracking number they just provided and they said it's being returned to the shipper. I was given a Fedex case ID# too. I hope I didn't make this a bigger can of worms and I just receive a prompt refund now.

    I assume I should follow through with cancelling via eBay, or should I hold off on that since I blocked the shipment?
    Not a bigger can of worms, just saved yourself shipping.

    Still apply for refund via ebay, so the seller can be on the lookout for product.

    This way through ebay you have complete protection because you never touched the item. But with a good seller, you usually have nothing to worry about. I also use paypal in case ebay fails to cover me, to date, never needed it. [less private deals in forums which was only once ]

  40. #40
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    Have you considered a GX Eagle Dub crankset instead? Can be found for same price as Atlas, BB is $32. There is a new take off on Ebay listed for $50 right now. Lighter and possibly stronger than the Atlas set. Trials rider Ali Clarkson uses these, routinely does drops over 10ft in the Drop and Roll tour, no problems. I doubt most of us put anywhere near that kind of force into our cranks.

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    If a GX Eagle Dub crankset is Boost then I would not be interested. The Race Face Atlas is the only one Race Face sells currently that is non-Boost, and that's also compatible with their direct-mount chainrings, and that's why I got interested in it in the first place. But thanks for that suggestion.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    If a GX Eagle Dub crankset is Boost then I would not be interested. The Race Face Atlas is the only one Race Face sells currently that is non-Boost, and that's also compatible with their direct-mount chainrings, and that's why I got interested in it in the first place. But thanks for that suggestion.
    Not the only one. I recently got an Aeffect that works with the Cinch rings and their EXI BB (same as Shimano 68/73). I just thought you were after the blue. Popped right into my BB92 on a non-boost frame with no issues so far (~200 miles or so).
    :nono: :thumbsup:

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Not the only one. I recently got an Aeffect that works with the Cinch rings and their EXI BB (same as Shimano 68/73). I just thought you were after the blue. Popped right into my BB92 on a non-boost frame with no issues so far (~200 miles or so).
    But what's the chainline you ended up with?

    I looked at all their data pdf files and concluded that the only one that will get me a 48.5mm chainline is the Atlas crank, or a SixC carbon crank but that's too much scratch for me. I do also really like the blue anodized option a lot, so there is that yes. Also, I already have a 68/73mm BSA (threaded) BB for a 30mm diameter spindle; it's a new-ish e13 bottom bracket, that's currently being used with a 5 or 6-year-old TRS+ crank that always develops wobble (because their "APS" adjuster system sucks) and I can't stand it anymore, so I'm looking for a new non-Boost crankset.

    Here's the relevant pdf tech data, if you care.
    https://www.raceface.com/media/Crank...chainlines.pdf

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    But what's the chainline you ended up with?

    I looked at all their data pdf files and concluded that the only one that will get me a 48.5mm chainline is the Atlas crank. I do also really like the blue anodized option a lot, so there is that yes. Also, I already have a 68/73mm BSA (threaded) BB for a 30mm diameter spindle; it's a new-ish e13 bottom bracket, that's currently being used with a 5 or 6-year-old TRS+ crank that always develops wobble (because their "APS" adjuster system sucks) and I can't stand it anymore, so I'm looking for a new non-Boost crankset.

    Here's the relevant pdf tech data, if you care.
    https://www.raceface.com/media/Crank...chainlines.pdf
    Never measured chainline, but it's not giving me backpedal issues - got it on closeout for $60 and already had a backup if it was a problem (plus that bike is on 10spd so less picky about chainline.

    If you already have a 30mm BB what about the Turbine? Lots of available spindle lengths and adjustable chainline. That chart is a PITA to sort through...someone should really make it easier. I tried to go through it and I think the Turbine non-boost chainline would be on the RF134 or RF136 spindle but went a bit cross-eyed so double check. It's time to make some dinner.
    :nono: :thumbsup:

  45. #45
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    Yeah, so those RF134 and RF136 spindles will give you a 51 and 52mm chainline, respectively, and require wider bottom brackets too. The e13 bottom bracket that I have will fit the RF131BM spindle, which is only available with the Atlas cranks and the SixC carbon cranks (the latter of which I ain't shelling out for). To make the RF131BM spindle fit you need an installed bottom bracket width of 93mm, which my e13 BB provides. The end result is a 48.5mm chainline .

    I had to figure all this out from those miserable charts, and I'm still slightly cross-eyed too after interpreting them .

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    If a GX Eagle Dub crankset is Boost then I would not be interested. The Race Face Atlas is the only one Race Face sells currently that is non-Boost, and that's also compatible with their direct-mount chainrings, and that's why I got interested in it in the first place. But thanks for that suggestion.
    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Never measured chainline, but it's not giving me backpedal issues - got it on closeout for $60 and already had a backup if it was a problem (plus that bike is on 10spd so less picky about chainline.

    If you already have a 30mm BB what about the Turbine? Lots of available spindle lengths and adjustable chainline. That chart is a PITA to sort through...someone should really make it easier. I tried to go through it and I think the Turbine non-boost chainline would be on the RF134 or RF136 spindle but went a bit cross-eyed so double check. It's time to make some dinner.
    Correct. RF has lots of non-boost options. If you have a 30mm bb already you want to fit, then the Turbine is probably what you want, anyway. I have 2 of these. If you don't like the chainline Race Face's chainrings offer, you can get even narrower with rings from aftermarket companies.

    Don't quote me on this, but the 136 spindle is the standard non-boost. The one for the Atlas/SixC is differentiated by calling it the 136DH, because the splines are a touch deeper. I'm honestly not sure what the 134 spindle is for. I've not seen that written out anywhere, but according to the chart, appears to offer the same chainline as the 136DH spindle on the Atlas/SixC cranks.

    IMO, RF cranks give you a good bit more control over chainline, because you can utilize chainring offsets from aftermarket companies the way other crank brands use, you can flip the chainrings to dish inboard or outboard, PLUS you can change up spindle lengths.

  47. #47
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    It's a good tip that whenever you do order something, run the part number through multiple sites/retailers/manufacturer to ensure you are getting what you think you are. I do this with ebay/amazon purchases. If there is no part number, I'll likely skip the transaction, although by all appearances it seems to be a required entry for a seller.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  48. #48
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    You are correct, and that appears to be the very theme of this whole thread.

    Else, go to a bike shop, but I've never cared for their attitudes.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    It's a good tip that whenever you do order something, run the part number through multiple sites/retailers/manufacturer to ensure you are getting what you think you are. I do this with ebay/amazon purchases. If there is no part number, I'll likely skip the transaction, although by all appearances it seems to be a required entry for a seller.
    They do want sellers to input part numbers. Sometimes if I don't know it or feel it's not needed, I just type "NA" and the system lets me proceed.
    :nono: :thumbsup:

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    Yeah, so those RF134 and RF136 spindles will give you a 51 and 52mm chainline, respectively, and require wider bottom brackets too.
    They do not require wider bottom brackets. I'm not sure where you get that. The system RF uses simply utilizes spacers to take up any necessary space. I've got a RF143 spindle on one bike with a standard 73mm bb shell with a combination of bb and spindle spacers to put the chainline at about 55mm (required for the frame). I actually have 2 spare spindles. I went to look at them, and they're the RF134 spindle, which is the standard non-boost. Not the RF136. Not sure what that spindle is for. That makes more sense why the RF134 on a Turbine offers the same chainline as a RF136DH on an Atlas. FWIW, that RF131BM BMX spindle is not easy to find. Also figuring out what the RF136 (not RF136DH) spindle is, is also difficult. Only thing I found that had that specific language on the page was the power meter spindle on R2bike, but the picture of the spindle did not show that part number.

    You absolutely CAN achieve a narrower chainline with aftermarket rings and without needing wonky spindle setups. This can get you a 49mm chainline:
    https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...raceface-cinch
    or
    https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...ace-face-cinch
    or
    https://www.oneupcomponents.com/coll...s/switch-cinch
    or
    probably more.

  51. #51
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    I came to the conclusion about the need for the bottom bracket widths from this pdf they provide:
    https://www.raceface.com/media/B1018...stallation.pdf
    So yet more confusion to deal with.
    It appears to me then that the RF134 spindle would require 5mm of spacers, and the RF136 spindle requires 7mm of spacers, for a 73mm BB shell (so add 5mm more for a 68mm shell, really?). And this is assuming that the exposed parts of the bottom brackets, after installation are 10mm each side (I measured the exposed parts of my installed e13 bottom bracket and got 10mm on the non-drive side. I could not get my calipers to measure the entire width of the installed bottom bracket because of parts in the way, but I'm assuming that it would come out to 93mm because 10 + 10 + 73). So no, not wider bottom brackets, just widening of the bottom brackets.

    Also, I just wanted to spend only $118 on a nice crankset that would get me a 48.5mm chainline, with its matching $40 chainring. I could pay more for the Wolf Tooth and the One Up modular chainring systems they have, or their pricier direct mounts and Race Face's pricier cranksets, but I don't want to.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    I came to the conclusion about the need for the bottom bracket widths from this pdf they provide:
    https://www.raceface.com/media/B1018...stallation.pdf
    So yet more confusion to deal with.
    It appears to me then that the RF134 spindle would require 5mm of spacers, and the RF136 spindle requires 7mm of spacers. So no, not wider bottom brackets, just widening of the bottom brackets.

    Also, I just wanted to spend only $118 on a nice crankset that would get me a 48.5mm chainline, with its matching $40 chainring. I could pay more for the Wolf Tooth and the One Up modular chainring systems they have, or their pricier direct mounts and Race Face's pricier cranksets, but I don't want to.
    Gotta pay attention that spacers are REQUIRED as part of the setup. I have a feeling that the RF131BM spindle would never work, because you'd have no room for any spacers.

    This is another reason I try to avoid chasing the cheapest prices all the time, wherever they are. First and foremost, I've gotta make absolute certain that whatever I buy for my bike will fit my bike and the particular application I have. As seems to be the case all too often, the cheapest prices I see are for versions of the product that won't fit my bike or application. When you have such a modular system like these Race Face cranks, that includes the need to research the different ways it's possible to reach what I need, which includes the cost of making changes to the parts (like the spindle) or other brands of chainrings or whatever. Sometimes a price is good enough that I can make that swap, buy the extra parts, and still come out ahead. But sometimes not.

    WRT the wolftooth and oneup spider systems, they might cost more initially, but the nice part about them is the way they make for a lower cost long-term. The replacement rings for those are a touch less expensive than the full direct mount rings. Even better is that WT offers stainless steel rings, which last longer than alu, spreading the cost out over a longer period of time. For a wear part that you have to replace eventually, anyway, this is smarter and cheaper, even if it costs more initially.

  53. #53
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    Good stuff, and I will take note.

    In the exploded diagram, in that pdf I just provided, I don't see any required spacers for the installation, except for where they would be needed to adjust the width of the bottom bracket. Where else are spacers required then?

    Damn, their modular system is so confusing to figure out. I know more than I cared to when I first started looking into the Race Face cranks, and I'm still not entirely clear on everything at this point.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    Good stuff, and I will take note.

    In the exploded diagram, in that pdf I just provided, I don't see any required spacers for the installation, except for where they would be needed to adjust the width of the bottom bracket. Where else are spacers required then?

    Damn, their modular system is so confusing to figure out. I know more than I cared to when I first started looking into the Race Face cranks, and I'm still not entirely clear on everything at this point.
    That chart is too general to account for every possible bb variation. You have to realize that RaceFace made these cranks to be highly modular to fit a huge variety of frames and bottom brackets. So which spacers to use and where depends heavily on the frame's bb type. Further, RF's instructions can't take into account all the subtle variations on every single bottom bracket made by everybody else (by standards, they can't vary by more than a mm or so, but that can make a difference with the spindle spacer arrangement).

    There are bb spacers (if you're using a threaded bb) and there are spindle spacers. There's no real 100% "right" combination to use with these, and the only real requirement is that you fit enough spacers to take up extra space so you can use the preload adjuster on the NDS crank to take up the last mm or so. Depending on which bb you're using, you might well have to experiment a little bit with spindle spacers. But you do have to use at least one on each side of the spindle to ensure that the preload is only pushing on the inner bearing ring and not the outer, or the seals. The cranks should come with this bare minimum amount of spacers for a "typical" setup.

    Some bottom brackets might include additional spindle spacers. I have a bunch of them because my setups are less typical. I have a fatbike as well as my hardtail with the 143 spindle. Both use bottom brackets from other manufacturers, so the dimensions are just a touch different.

    RF has additional information regarding spacers on their bb instruction sheets.
    https://www.raceface.com/media/B30067-B-Web.pdf
    https://www.raceface.com/media/BB_92...tion_Guide.pdf
    https://www.raceface.com/media/BB_PF...tion_Guide.pdf

  55. #55
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    Ok, thanks for that info.

    I was using their chart to tell me that I need to get the entire width of my installed bottom bracket to 93.1mm +/-1.0mm, for their RF131BM spindle. I interpreted this as if I achieve that then the spindle will have any remaining space it needs for preload and clamping of the arms (and at least one spindle spacer on each side?). So much confusion with their system.

    So do the spindle spacers come with the crankset? I sure hope so. I don't see those pictured in that exploded installation view.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    So do the spindle spacers come with the crankset? I sure hope so.
    My Turbines came with a few spindle spacers. It may or may not be enough, depending on all the other factors in play. For you, it'll probably be enough, but given that you're using a bb from a different brand, I can't say 100% for sure.

    The confusion starts to dissipate once you've handled one of their cranksets with a CINCH spindle and have worked through what needs to be done to install it.

    But there are also a ton of ways to install everything incorrectly and I've seen a few of them (I did one myself, but I've also seen a couple other bikes that were done incorrectly).

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Ya, what exactly on a set of cranks would need a warranty? you ever set a crankset back for warranty issues LOL .
    i've had to warranty several sets of cranks from twisted arms to broken spindles. i certainly wouldn't trust a no-name brand...


  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    My Turbines came with a few spindle spacers.
    How thick are those spindle spacers?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    How thick are those spindle spacers?
    I don't remember. I have several sizes, from 0.5mm to 5mm, some of which are in .5mm increments like 2.5mm and some aren't labeled. I got them from a bunch of different sources, so I have a hodgepodge and I don't remember which ones came with the cranks, which ones came with what bb, and which ones I bought separately.

    RF also sells a variety of spacer kits.
    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=68076
    You can get them from anyone, tbh
    https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pag...spindle+spacer

  60. #60
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    Not one mention of XT cranks in this thread. Weird...

    Carry on.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    Not one mention of XT cranks in this thread. Weird...

    Carry on.
    OP shut down 24mm spindles when he said he's got a bb for 30mm spindles he wants to use.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    OP shut down 24mm spindles when he said he's got a bb for 30mm spindles he wants to use.
    I get it, but with XT/R BB's being so cheap...

    Guess press fit would be a choke point, but who rides those anymore!

  63. #63
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    I have considered an XT crankset, and in fact I have an M8000 on my other bike and think itís great. I just wanted to try something different AND reuse my 30mm bottom bracket. THEN I got obsessed with color options and chain line. Anyway, I canít find an Atlas, or a Turbine, that comes with their shortest spindle options, let alone at a good price (<<$200). So I'm probably going to end up with another Shimano afterall. I prefer their preload and crank arm clamping system anyway.
    Last edited by A. Rider; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:32 PM.

  64. #64
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    Jenson has decent prices if you're after the 68/73 Atlas (even in blue) @ just under $180. Or the Turbine, but only in black @ $170. Still don't get all the nuances of the spindle discussion but just thought I'd pass it along just in case either might work for you.
    :nono: :thumbsup:

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Jenson has decent prices if you're after the 68/73 Atlas (even in blue) @ just under $180. Or the Turbine, but only in black @ $170. Still don't get all the nuances of the spindle discussion but just thought I'd pass it along just in case either might work for you.
    Everything that's currently available has a spindle length that gives a Boost chain line. That's what all that discussion regarding the spindle lengths was about.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    Everything that's currently available has a spindle length that gives a Boost chain line. That's what all that discussion regarding the spindle lengths was about.
    No.

    The 134 spindle that's labeled as the 68/73 spindle most frequently is the standard NON-boost chainline. RaceFace's chainline has always been that wide since they introduced these cranks. It's the aftermarket companies who started pushing an even narrower chainline for 1x drivetrains. So if you want that chainline on these cranks, you have to buy an aftermarket chainring.

    1.5mm isn't going to wreck your whole drivetrain, anyway.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    No.

    The 134 spindle that's labeled as the 68/73 spindle most frequently is the standard NON-boost chainline. RaceFace's chainline has always been that wide since they introduced these cranks. It's the aftermarket companies who started pushing an even narrower chainline for 1x drivetrains. So if you want that chainline on these cranks, you have to buy an aftermarket chainring.

    1.5mm isn't going to wreck your whole drivetrain, anyway.
    I couldn't find a Turbine with a RF134 spindle in their listings. Turbines I did find had either RF136 in the description, or nothing listed. The earliest releases of the Turbine CINCH cranks had "Raceface" graphics down the outside of the crank arms, but now they all say "Turbine" down the outside facing area and now all appear to be RF136 spindles. I could be wrong but this war of attrition is over for me and I've stopped caring about getting a Raceface crankset. I also called a couple places about Atlas cranks they have for sale and waited on hold while they looked to see what number was stamped on the spindle. They said RF136DH. I came to the same conclusion now about the Atlas cranks too, and believe they only have Boost versions available. A 1.5 to 2mm increased chainline will not ruin the cranks for me, but I would need to pay more for a less ideal chainline. With that, I caved and bought another excellent Shimano 11-speed crankset for under $100 and matching BB for $25, and a nice Absolute Black oval chainring with the money I saved. I know exactly how to install it, without any confusion, and will just ride my bike now with the time I will save instead of sweating out all the confusing details of Raceface's modular cranks. Thanks for the info though.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Rider View Post
    I couldn't find a Turbine with a RF134 spindle in their listings. Turbines I did find had either RF136 in the description, or nothing listed. The earliest releases of the Turbine CINCH cranks had "Raceface" graphics down the outside of the crank arms, but now they all say "Turbine" down the outside facing area and now all appear to be RF136 spindles.
    I'll give you that much. I have 2 Turbine cranksets. One has the old graphics (and even an aluminum preload adjuster). The other has new graphics and a plastic preload adjuster that's less than a year old. I looked at both of my spindles (that just sit around because I don't need them) and I do indeed have 1x RF134 and 1x RF136 spindle. The RF136DH is the Atlas/SixC version of the RF134 spindle (you see it in the charts that it offers the same chainline on those cranks).

    I'd have been willing to send the 134 spindle for the cost of shipping (just the spindle, though...not the full kit with the extra self-extracting bolt, since that's installed on my crank) if you needed that. Part of the problem with this modular system is the lack of clarity and detail from not only RF (exactly which spindle is for which applications) but also from the retailers (exactly which spindle part number is included on the crank). Frankly, I'd prefer it if these were sold without the spindle attached (for less money) so that I could then buy the spindle I needed and ONLY the spindle I needed. When I bought both of my Turbines, I had to then buy separately the spindle I actually needed (169 for my fatbike and 143 for my hardtail) which left me with extra unused parts. I'm honestly not sure what RF really calls the 136 spindle, though. It's not the "boost" spindle, because the 143 spindle is labeled as the "boost" spindle.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Frankly, I'd prefer it if these were sold without the spindle attached (for less money) so that I could then buy the spindle I needed and ONLY the spindle I needed.
    I totally agree. They made this way more confusing and frustrating than it needed to be. Just sell the arms separately, and let the buyer choose the spindle they need.

    And wow, thank you for your offer for your spare spindle. But I just purchased the Shimano stuff and matching chainring and I'm just going to go with that. That was a really nice gesture.

  70. #70
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    I'm fickle and decided against another Shimano crankset because I found yet another good price for blue Atlas cranks and I just had to have them. $125 from Planet Cyclery, via eBay, in a "damaged package". I called them and they confirmed it was the correct RF136DH spindle, for a 68/73mm shell, and the package damage was pretty minimal (it was, upon receiving it). I went with a OneUp Switch carrier and chainring to get a 49mm chainline (thanks Harold for the suggestion). The Atlas 170mm crankset with spindle is only a crummy 18 grams heavier than my other bike's Shimano XT M8000 170mm crankset and spindle (including pedal washers, preloader, and mounting bolts for both cranksets). Not bad at all for what's defined as a trail/enduro/DH crankset.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What's wrong with these brand new Race Face Atlas cranks?-img_4725.jpg  


  71. #71
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    I have seen some pretty good looking fake XTs and RF cranks from china.
    Then again, can you 100% trust even those shipping from USA.
    On the other hand, maybe they come from demo bike, with only chainring replaced.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan Wolf View Post
    I have seen some pretty good looking fake XTs and RF cranks from china.
    Then again, can you 100% trust even those shipping from USA.
    On the other hand, maybe they come from demo bike, with only chainring replaced.
    It's Planet Cyclery - the odds of a fake from them is pretty much zero.

    OP, glad you found what you were after.
    :nono: :thumbsup:

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    By Ventanarama in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-09-2004, 09:38 AM

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