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  1. #1
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    SunRace cassette , wide range

    I saw sunrace cassettes advertised in dirtrag.

    CSMX3 10 speed 11-40 , 11-42
    CSMX8 11 speed 11-40 , 11-42

    Says it's a two piece cassette on aluminum spiders.

    I found no information about it under google.

    Wonder when they will be sold ? Does anybody have any info ?

    pic of the add in the mag.

    SunRace cassette , wide range-szfaunq.jpg
    Last edited by johnD; 11-25-2016 at 08:52 AM. Reason: added new photo

  2. #2
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    I checked SunRace's website a few days ago but there was no info. Thanks for posting what may be my next cassette.
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  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I checked SunRace's website a few days ago but there was no info. Thanks for posting what may be my next cassette.
    No joke!
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  5. #5
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    10 speed? Nice - just let me know when and where they are being sold.

    edit: Also can we keep it somewhere between $80 - $120 as well? Pretty please

  6. #6
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    Praxis has an 11/40 10sp coming this summer too.
    Please donate to IMBA or your local IMBA chapter. It's trail karma.

  7. #7
    Love4Mtns
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    I saw the same add, made the same searches, and have found nothing other than these postings. I'll volunteer to beta-test the the 10 speed one in black as soon as it hits the market. Odd that SunRace posted the ad without information on their website to back it up.

    I'll send them an email and post back with their reply.

  8. #8
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    80$. Cheep! Just kidding...maybe in May will be for selling ?!

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  9. #9
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    Thought I heard the Praxis was going to be like $110. Glad more are coming out with these. I will likely grab one.


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  10. #10
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    My LBS (owner/operator) saw it in the mag and tried to get info through his sources, but he also came up empty. He's going to keep checking and if he finds out anything before anyone else does, I'll post back.

  11. #11
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    Glad to see more manufacturers coming out of the woodwork with these cassettes.

  12. #12
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    They don't really have a reputation for making top quality suff, do they?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    They don't really have a reputation for making top quality suff, do they?
    I have a SunRace 11-36 9 speed cassette that was difficult to obtain. After a short amount of use it has really chewed my freehub and the shifting is well... poor.

  14. #14
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    What about an 11-44 cassette?
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    I don't know how authentic they are. The company just turned up as a follower on my instergram.

  15. #15
    Love4Mtns
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    I have a SunRace 11-36 9 speed cassette that was difficult to obtain. After a short amount of use it has really chewed my freehub and the shifting is well... poor.
    Hmm, I'm reconsidering my offer to be the guinea pig for this product.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean.designs.bikes View Post
    Hmm, I'm reconsidering my offer to be the guinea pig for this product.

    The new SunRace has alloy carriers so it won't har your freehub. We will see about the shifting, but it shouldn't be hard to make a decent cassette.
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  17. #17
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    I had a sunrace 11-36 on my rockhopper from the factory , I felt is was on par with a shimano. No premature failure or wear. Poor quality ? idk about that.

  18. #18
    Love4Mtns
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    I heard back from Sunrace:

    Sorry I do not have a MSRP as we do not sell retail but the ball park should be around $100 to $120.

    They are available now but we are just waiting for our distributors to receive them. First to get them I believe will be BTI.

    If I can help with any other questions please let me know.

    David

    [email protected]

    1436 Second Street #409
    Napa, CA. 94559

    (P) 1-707-259-6700

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  19. #19
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    Cheaper than an XT cassette and a Wolftooth cog!
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  20. #20
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    But, is the reliability there? I'm gonna bet no.

  21. #21
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    Why wouldn't it be reliable? Does Sunrace have a record of failing cassettes?

  22. #22
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    Well, in my opinion, there are only two companies that make a reliable drivetrain. Sunrace isn't one of them.

  23. #23
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    And, if you look at their limited reviews, they're not so hot.
    Sunrace Reviews - Mtbr.com

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by abrooks View Post
    What about an 11-44 cassette?
    News - GarbaruK
    I don't know how authentic they are. The company just turned up as a follower on my instergram.
    Wow and i thought a 42t already looked huge.

  25. #25
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    I'm hoping they are stepping up their quality game. But its only a matter of time until full 11-42 cassettes make their way out into the aftermarket. I just hope it pushes shimano and sram to offer budget standard freehub parts as well.

  26. #26
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    Some more info on the Sunrace stuff...looks like they got a rear derailleur too...with no clutch.

    TPE15: Sunrace adds wide range 10 / 11 speed mountain bike cassettes, derailleurs

  27. #27
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    I have an 8-speed sunrace that works well. However, it's 8-speed, which is pretty much as forgiving as you can get when you have a jacked up drivetrain.

  28. #28
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    Hi does anyone know if a normal Shimano Deore or SLX mid cage (gs) derailleur (with clutch) would work with this setup? Any experience with the 42t wolf tooth, one, hope, e13 etc. is appreciated and if just a longer b-tension screw is needed. Looking to get this to replace my current 11-36t cassette next month. Seems like many running a Shimano derailleur don't even need the longer b-tension from some posts on this forum with the 42t expander cog. Thanks in advance.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    Hi does anyone know if a normal Shimano Deore or SLX mid cage (gs) derailleur (with clutch) would work with this setup? Any experience with the 42t wolf tooth, one, hope, e13 etc. is appreciated and if just a longer b-tension screw is needed. Looking to get this to replace my current 11-36t cassette next month. Seems like many running a Shimano derailleur don't even need the longer b-tension from some posts on this forum with the 42t expander cog. Thanks in advance.
    for the 10 speed , yes.
    check out the wolf tooth goatlink.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnD View Post
    for the 10 speed , yes.
    check out the wolf tooth goatlink.
    Thanks for that link. Seems like I recall seeing some people using the newer Shimano style derailleurs and not even having to use a longer b-tension screw or goatlink. I think it was buried deep in one of the oneup or wolf tooth 42t expander pages, will have to get lost in there a bit to see where I saw it.

  31. #31
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    Has anyone seen any prices on these new "Wide Range" Cassettes? Only one that I have found is the Praxis at $139. Wondering if the SunRace or e*Thirteen will come in cheaper?

  32. #32
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    That would be a bargain for a reliable cassette that shifts well.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    Hi does anyone know if a normal Shimano Deore or SLX mid cage (gs) derailleur (with clutch) would work with this setup? Any experience with the 42t wolf tooth, one, hope, e13 etc. is appreciated and if just a longer b-tension screw is needed. Looking to get this to replace my current 11-36t cassette next month. Seems like many running a Shimano derailleur don't even need the longer b-tension from some posts on this forum with the 42t expander cog. Thanks in advance.

    I've tried both Deore and XT mechs with big cogs while waiting on RAD cages. No long B screw was needed on either setup. However, I suspect it might be dependent on your particular hanger and what angle the B link rests at.

    I'll add....I'm much happier with the shifting after installing the RAD cage.

  34. #34
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    I'm looking to go to a wide range with the least amount of cash outlay.....The praxis will be the best option (11-40) as it will be the ONLY expense. I read somewhere that Specialized will be using the sunrace cassettes on some of their models....I've never used them, but don't think Spesh would invest in them if they were substandard. If they come in less than the praxis, then I would definitely look into a purchase.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by coot271 View Post
    I'm looking to go to a wide range with the least amount of cash outlay.....The praxis will be the best option (11-40) as it will be the ONLY expense. I read somewhere that Specialized will be using the sunrace cassettes on some of their models....I've never used them, but don't think Spesh would invest in them if they were substandard. If they come in less than the praxis, then I would definitely look into a purchase.
    my 2014 rockhopper came with a sunrace 10 speed 11-36 cassette , I had zero complaints.
    eventually swamped the drivetrain out for xt.

  36. #36
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    my 2013 Hardrock Sport came with 11-34 8spd Sunrace cassette. It had zero issues and it comes apart easy for cleaning or swapping cogs...
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  37. #37
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    Latest update from Sunrace: "The new cassettes are all currently in production and should be here Mid July. Please have your local bike shop contact BTI for further information. They will be the first distributor to receive them."

    So this should be about 20g lighter than an XT cassette with expander cog, and I would hope at least $50 cheaper. The Praxis is supposed to be out in June, will be about 80g lighter than the XT/expander, and roughly $20-$40 cheaper. It will be nice to have options.

  38. #38
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    SunRace cassette , wide range-002-3-.jpgI have a Sunrace CS-MX 10 speed 11-36t cassette and it works like a dream. It shifts just as well as anything I have had, usually Sram. It looks good and does a good job. Been on there since before Christmas.
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  39. #39
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    I too emailed them. Unless totally top end equipment there actually is only one quality cassette and that is shimano. It worries me that this company probably totally lacks manufacturing and probably posts specs on alibaba for some skanky shop to produce a run under their space. Carefully examine a xt cassette next to any other mid range one and you will see major differences in the metal working and the precision. I feel much better sticking with wolf plus shimano after further reflection.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopath1000 View Post
    I too emailed them. Unless totally top end equipment there actually is only one quality cassette and that is shimano. It worries me that this company probably totally lacks manufacturing and probably posts specs on alibaba for some skanky shop to produce a run under their space. Carefully examine a xt cassette next to any other mid range one and you will see major differences in the metal working and the precision. I feel much better sticking with wolf plus shimano after further reflection.
    Cyclopath100, Have you ever used the cassette? If not you really cannot give your .02. I usually use to of the line SRAM cassettes and you cannot tell the difference between the two. Sunrace make some crappy components, but there cassettes are a great value and shift great.
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  41. #41
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    Yes of course I have used all the majors. Not the sun race. Again look at the shimano workmanship with a good light and magnifying glass. Look at the details.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopath1000 View Post
    Yes of course I have used all the majors. Not the sun race. Again look at the shimano workmanship with a good light and magnifying glass. Look at the details.
    I would love to look at a Shimano 11-42 10-speed cassette with a magnifying glass. All I really want is to see one on my bike. If Sun Race makes a cost effective and functional one and Shimano refuses to, I am willing to tolerate a lesser standard of finish as long as it rides well, hopefully we will have an answer to this question soon.

  43. #43
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    However, if you use a laser light and a microscope to look at a SRAM cassette, you'll see who really makes the best cassette.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopath1000 View Post
    Yes of course I have used all the majors. Not the sun race. Again look at the shimano workmanship with a good light and magnifying glass. Look at the details.
    I don't need a magnifying glass, the proof is how it functions. I would be willing to bet if you were riding a Sunrace cassette without knowing you would be hard pressed know the actual difference. Again your .02 is invalid. Actually use a product before going on a forum and badmouthing it....
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  45. #45
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    I only got into looking at the cassettes when I simultaneously did one up deals on my shimano ten speed on my tall boy and my sons Shram 10 speed enduromcomp comp. now granted the xt is probably a higher level than what specialized outfitted his brand new bike, but after the one up ate my pretty brand new derailier I looked real close at the cogs , the metal , the shifters rad etc etc and realized that the shimano has literally twice the ramps and that the one up didn't match either ramp pattern whereas the wolf did. Recently a rock bent his second from the top of the top of the native cassette but creative hammering by James at the shop made it rideable. Go look carefully. I am not talking about the scram top of the line stuff which is beautiful.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by danmtchl View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	002 (3).jpg 
Views:	5418 
Size:	155.2 KB 
ID:	988183I have a Sunrace CS-MX 10 speed 11-36t cassette and it works like a dream. It shifts just as well as anything I have had, usually Sram. It looks good and does a good job. Been on there since before Christmas.
    How is the black chrome finish holding up? Also, are all of the cogs steel, or is the largest one(s) aluminum?

  47. #47
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    data point:

    I am the personal mechanic for my wifes bike. She beats the crap out of it and cross-shifts, wrong-shifts, and mis-shifts with staggering consistency.

    The least complaints after a ride (me the dumbass always asks "How was the bike?") have been with a Sunrace, less complaints than Sram and Shimano upper level.


    So, not looking under a microscope, not personally testing shifting, no other criteria other than a happy wife who WANTS to ride her 2x10 Giant Trance.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
    How is the black chrome finish holding up? Also, are all of the cogs steel, or is the largest one(s) aluminum?
    I don't knokw if you can tell in the picture, but it wearing off somewhat. It is a dull satin finish, but it still shifts great. The cogs are steel and the spider which is red in the pic is aluminum, as well the lock ring.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by coot271 View Post
    I read somewhere that Specialized will be using the sunrace cassettes on some of their models....I've never used them, but don't think Spesh would invest in them if they were substandard. If they come in less than the praxis, then I would definitely look into a purchase.

    Specialized has been using Sunrace cassettes on many of their models for at least 20 years if not more. My late 90's era Rockhopper came stock with one, I remember that and continued to replace with the Sunrace as it was good. They are every bit as good (if not better) than many SRAM and Shimano models if you look at dollar for gram.

    Here are two quick examples..

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    I am anxiously awaiting the 11-42 10 speed model myself. I am going to get a new 30t race face ring to replace my current 1x 32t race face and 11-36 XT cassette.

  50. #50
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    I received an email from Sunrace stating that they are currently in production of the 11-40/11-42 cassettes and BTI will be the first to have them, sometime in "late July".

  51. #51
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    Also, it looks as though there will be two different versions. One with an aluminum big cog and lighter weight, and another heavier unit that's all steel cogs...........

    Attachment 997703

    Attachment 997704

  52. #52
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    It looks like the Specialized Fuse Expert and Comp come with the black 10sp 11-40. The Expert uses the 10sp GX and the Comp runs the X7 RD.

  53. #53
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    Praxis is also coming out with a wide range cassette. Here is a link to their site

    10sp Wide Range Cassette | Praxis Cycles

    Wondering what the price difference is going to be and functionality.
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  54. #54
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    The praxis has been out for a month now. I have it and its a very good cassette IMO. The reviews are overwhelmingly positive so far. Its going to be a difficult goal to beat for sunrace, but the more competition the better, right?

  55. #55
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    It sounds like Praxis has hit the mark for quality, at a good weight and reasonable price. Sunrace needs a very good price point to be worth considering because their published weights are not that great and the best they can hope for is to be comparable in quality. They will have more options including 42t cogs, so that is a point for them until Praxis comes around on that one.

  56. #56
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    Sunrace's gearing is better to me. They elected to keep the 36T which is an important gear for me. Without it, there would be many climbs that I wouldn't be able to pull the 34T of the Praxis, and that would force me into the 40T, which is a little too spinny for me.

    Also, Praxis elected to make the 34T and the 40T from aluminum, whereas Sunrace only has the 40T made from aluminum, so the wear should be better for someone like me who will only use the 40T as a bailout gear.

    Anyway, I agree that competition is a good thing.

  57. #57
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    I prefer the gearing of the Sunrace compared to the Praxis too. You're going a couple teeth higher now in each gear compared to the Sunrace.

    I think Praxis geared it that way to have more even steps when shifting. If Praxis does come out with a 42, the gearing should change to match the extra two teeth on the big cog.

  58. #58
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    My LBS quoted me $65 out the door for the CSMX3 11-40T Champagne cassette. They are now listed on BTI, but are currently out-of-stock. He thinks it will be a matter of weeks, if not days before he can order one for me.

  59. #59
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    Wow...that's a pretty awesome price! Lol...at that price I just may get one to try out. Is there any word on the black ones?

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    I wonder when/if it'll be available in the UK.
    It is a great price!

  61. #61
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    I riding with a SunRace 10 speed, 11-36 for 6 months now, and so far so good, good shifting compared to my other XT cassette and the black coating it's holding with minimum wear on the teeth.

    I thin it looks good in black and matches my pivot M6




  62. #62
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    Bikeman seems to have them listed as out of stock for $60:Bikeman SunRace CSMX3 10sp cassette, 11-42t - Champagne

  63. #63
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    For me the 11-42 with STEEL big cogs is the point. Aluminum big cogs just wear out, bend, shed teeth. At $100 for just a giant cog adaptor from Wolftooth, OneUp, Hope, etc plus needing a 10 speed cassette as well......I could buy several of these SunRace cassettes, and likely will.

  64. #64
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    My LBS called BTI yesterday and was told that the cassettes officially left China 2 days ago, and should be ready for sale in 2-3 weeks once they clear customs and get to BTI.

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    Another good option if you stick with 10sp.

    I like the fact that both have a 28-32-36 combo, you just have to pick your final gear.

    40 or 42?

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    Couple hundred miles on my Praxis. Took a little time getting used to the ratios. Love it now. No complaints.

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    Anyone have an update?

  68. #68
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    The CSMS series (10 and 11s x40/42t) are due into J&B the end of October, I had a chance to look at some of Sunrace's other new stuff and it looks pretty darn nice! Definitely a viable more affordable option compared to the other two big S brands.

    Even their new cranksets look decent, haven't had one in my hands yet but the look has definitely improved, hopefully the quality has as well.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Little Bird View Post
    The CSMS series (10 and 11s x40/42t) are due into J&B the end of October
    Oh man. That far out still? I have friends and family chompin' at the bit for these.

  70. #70
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    Yessir, that's what I hear, hopefully earlier than that but well see. Should be about $68 retail if I had to guess which isn't too bad

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Little Bird View Post
    Yessir, that's what I hear, hopefully earlier than that but well see. Should be about $68 retail if I had to guess which isn't too bad
    Not at all!
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  72. #72
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    Anyone know where these are/will be available in Europe?

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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Oh man. That far out still? I have friends and family chompin' at the bit for these.
    It is a bit ridiculous how long it is taking to get these to market, they are losing a lot of sales. The ads have been running in magazines for months.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    It is a bit ridiculous how long it is taking to get these to market, they are losing a lot of sales. The ads have been running in magazines for months.
    I totally agree. Terrible marketing and supply. I may just end up with a full XT 11 speed setup instead..........

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    Yep. I certainly would have liked to see it with some time to experiment before my trip out West. Guess I'll still be riding 2x9.

  76. #76
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    Available for order at Bikeman now. Hopefully my buddies get their orders in before all you guys flood them with orders, and they sell out.

    11-40 Bikeman SunRace CSMX3 10sp cassette, 11-40t - Champagne
    11-42 Bikeman SunRace CSMX3 10sp cassette, 11-42t - Champagne

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Available for order at Bikeman now. Hopefully my buddies get their orders in before all you guys flood them with orders, and they sell out.

    11-40 Bikeman SunRace CSMX3 10sp cassette, 11-40t - Champagne
    11-42 Bikeman SunRace CSMX3 10sp cassette, 11-42t - Champagne
    Just came in to post the same thing. I asked the LBS to order me one.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Available for order at Bikeman now. Hopefully my buddies get their orders in before all you guys flood them with orders, and they sell out.

    11-40 Bikeman SunRace CSMX3 10sp cassette, 11-40t - Champagne
    11-42 Bikeman SunRace CSMX3 10sp cassette, 11-42t - Champagne
    Just ordered mine!
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  79. #79
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    Just ordered one, 11-40. Been giving myself headaches trying to decide how I wanted to get more range outta my 1x10, this just answered it for me lol. Hopefully its here sooner than later. Not a huge fan of sites that sell online, but have to order from distributor then ship to me (and charge $11 to do it). One thing I like is all steel cogs except the big one, keeps 36t and no funky mods.

  80. #80
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    $54 shipping to Canada, not happening. Ridiculous shipping charge for a 1 pound package. Does any other vendor carry the cassette?

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilsner1 View Post
    $54 shipping to Canada, not happening. Ridiculous shipping charge for a 1 pound package. Does any other vendor carry the cassette?
    BTI will soon but I don't know if that solves your shipping problem? When BTI has them in stock, I'll post here and your LBS should be able to order from them.

  82. #82
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    J&B and KHS do not have them in stock yet. KHS says by Nov 1st but I would say December 1st. Someone is trying to gouge you with that shipping.
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  83. #83
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    I think the iPhone 7 will be out before these ship. However, I am curious how these work once they do ship, as the price point for a wide range 1x10 is pretty compelling.

  84. #84
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    Well crap, their site says 5-7 days
    ... If I don't have shipping confirm on day 7 its PayPal dispute time

  85. #85
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    I'll be heading to Interbike in a few mins. I'll see if these guys are here. I'll ask when they'll actually be available.

  86. #86
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    Finally got a shipping notice from Bikeman.com, I guess these things do exist.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    Finally got a shipping notice from Bikeman.com, I guess these things do exist.
    Me too!
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  88. #88
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    Just realized I got my shipping confirm earlier as well. God I hope these are worth a crap quality wise, be the first time I've paid more than $40 for a cassette lol (gotta love winter deals).

  89. #89
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    Who's gonna be the first to put up a review with pics???????

  90. #90
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    Shipping to the UK almost doubles the price..I wonder if it'll be available to buy from an EU supplier?

  91. #91
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    Out of stock at bikeman now. My local guy tried to order it and couldn't find one. BTI doesn't have it. Maybe the black ones will be available soon ;-|.

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    Mine shipped from bikeman yesterday. This should be interesting.

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  93. #93
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    https://i275.photobucket.com/albums/...psnpwtvqaf.jpg

    They are real! I'll get it put in tonight and see how it does this weekend.

  94. #94
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    ^ Looking forward to hearing your thoughts regarding shifting up/down, through the entire cassette.

  95. #95
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    Weight?

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Weight?
    Just got mine too, just a hair over 384g. This thing took long enough to get here, but it is damned nice looking, if it works half as good as it looks it will be the bargain of the year at $59.99. First impression out of the box, I am impressed.

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    They seem to be back up on the bikeman site with 2-3 day shipping.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    Just got mine too, just a hair over 384g. This thing took long enough to get here, but it is damned nice looking, if it works half as good as it looks it will be the bargain of the year at $59.99. First impression out of the box, I am impressed.

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    Yes that looks like a cassette, hurry up and ride it. The pedaling masses want to know how well it works.
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbwallace View Post
    They seem to be back up on the bikeman site with 2-3 day shipping.
    Yep, just ordered a 40T

  100. #100
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    If I feel up to it ill pedal around town tonight after work, see how it shifts.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    https://i275.photobucket.com/albums/...psnpwtvqaf.jpg

    They are real! I'll get it put in tonight and see how it does this weekend.
    I just got home and on the porch are the two 40t's I ordered from Bikeman last week. They look really nice. Mounted one up on my Mutz. Will ride it in the morning. The aluminum 40t cog is much wider then the rest of the cogs. I am assuming this is for strength and wear characteristics. The addition width causes the chain to skip down to the lower cog when back peddeling. This should not be a problem and might go away after it "wears" in a little.

  102. #102
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    I don't think it's the additional width. Lots of larger cogs cause dropping when back pedaling. Chainline, b screw, derailleur straightness, chain length and a host of other factors all come into play.

  103. #103
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    Ya the back pedaling thing is pretty much your chain line. Chainring is too far outboard with the bigger cog in the back, especially if your bike has short chain stays. Alot of its extra size is that its aluminum unlike the rest of the cogs.

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    Mounted and ridden around the block today. It shifts well enough, not as buttery smooth as the Shimano XT cassette it replaced but doable. One thing I will say is the aluminum 42T cog is a bit flexy. I can visibly bend it with my finger. Not sure how this will translate in real world usage or if they is any power loss but just FYI.

  105. #105
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    You can flex.the steel cogs on slx/xt cassettes just as much. I just checked after you post and my aluminum big ring is actually stiffer than the steel rings on that cluster. Had me worried about it big time cause im a Clyde, but its no more than any other cassette I have.

  106. #106
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    I think I'll grab one once the dust settles. I saw a black one from a seller in the UK.

  107. #107
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    Ya im not a fan of the red but I was about to spend money getting more low range anyway cause new local trail 30/36 is just too tall.



    Ok my "detailed" first impressions:



    Bike set up:

    Trek 29er (race ht 2012 frame so stay are a tad longer than what's out now)

    1x10 w/RF NW 30t, xt shifter and zee rear derailleur. Kmc x10 chain.



    Set up was a bit touchy, had to adjust low limit slightly due to big ring being slightly wider. Zee rd can take a 40t with almost half the b-limit left.



    -Back pedaling issue is there but I expected it as 36t even with the rf 30t ring having built in spacers was noisy when back pedaling. Sort that out later (order some spacers or may end up with 28t ring up front).



    -coming OFF the 40t is delayed and noisy. Expect that to mellow once chain and cog mate up all the way.



    - rest of the way down is smooth till the bottom couple cogs, then reminds me of the sram set up the bike came with. Works fine just clunks more than it used to with slx cassette.



    -from 11t all the way to 40t shifting though a bit noisier works great. I just hear it more than im used to but its minimal.



    Now just to ride it and see what gives up under my 280lbs first, the free hub body or the cassette lol. But other than the noisy shift coming off the 40t it shifts good. May bring my b-limit in a bit more to help that and hope the rest of the shifting doesn't go to crap. At least till winter when I can spring for an XT 11s RD.



    Update:

    Yeap b-limit is as far as I can put it without making shifting crappy on the last 3-4 small cogs. Upper jockey wheel has about 2mm clearance. My messing wiht it I seemed to have found a better spot for the b-limit as the drop down isnt as rough now, sometimes its not bad at all. Good enough for now, but may try a goat link as I hate to buy a new RD already, just got this one in the spring.





    On a side note, I like the gear spacing a bit better. I used to go up or down a couple at a time more than I liked. This spacing seems to work better for me in the middle of the cassette.
    Last edited by tigris99; 09-25-2015 at 12:43 AM.

  108. #108
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    ^ Thorough review, thanks! Shimano RDs are known to be not quite as 40T/42T friendly as SRAM RDs (which I run) so hopefully my shifting is a little more snick-snick like than what you're experiencing.

    I ordered mine through Bikeman yesterday, and it shipped today, so next week I'll throw up my review as well...........

  109. #109
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    I just ordered a goatlink a bit ago, should clean up the shifting a bit. Only option short of replacing the RD.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    I just ordered a goatlink a bit ago, should clean up the shifting a bit. Only option short of replacing the RD.
    I've read that the GL noticeably helps, so you should be good to go.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    I don't think it's the additional width. Lots of larger cogs cause dropping when back pedaling. Chainline, b screw, derailleur straightness, chain length and a host of other factors all come into play.
    Good to know. I got a chance to ride it today. Shifts perfectly. No issues. A bargain at $59.

  112. #112
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    Ok got a good ride on mine today. City fall festival added a "color ride" (bicycle version of color run) this year. So i switched my trailer hitch to my 29er to pull my 2yr old with it for the ride. My town is very hilly, good series of climbs. Omg this was a night a day difference giving me that bail out gear for the one big climb. Never bad on my own but pulling a dual seated trailer with him in it I usually just barely make it. Dont usually use my 29er for around town but my old entry trej 26 I use for commuting the gearing just sucks.

    Cog gearing spacing is perfect for me too, no more having to shift 2 all the time, only when I actually need. It felt right before, but an hour towing the trailer I really liked it.

    Did find a shifting issue only when dropping to 11t, thinking I may have adjusted the limit in that end by accident at some point.

    Other than that cassette worked amazingly well. The clunky shift has mellowed, still more than my Shimano cassette obviously but now its enough it doesn't grab my attention .

    Goatlink will be here Monday, report back after I test that.

  113. #113
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    Got mine installed today and thought I would share my thoughts and some pics. I am going for a ride tonight at 5:30 so I'll update this later tonight.

    I bought the 11-40T CSMX3 cassette that has the 40T sprocket and all carriers made from 7075 aluminum, and the rest of the cogs are steel. It weighed 383g on my scale and is exactly the weight claimed by SunRace. Installation was easy with no issues. The red ano works perfect with my bike, and it is in fact red, not pinkish like I thought it might be from some of the other pics.

    My setup is a 1x10 29er, with XT 785 (double) cranks, a brand new 104bcd WolfTooth 30T Chainring, brand new KMC SL 10-speed chain, X9 2.1 medium cage RD and X9 shifter. I wanted everything new from the start (minus the RD & shifter), and I will swap in a new chain about every 400-500 miles.

    As for adjustments needed coming from my 30T/11-36T/med cage RD setup, I needed to turn the B screw in 6 full turns and loosen the low limit screw (more inboard throw) 3/4 of a turn. High limit and indexing needed no change, at least not yet.

    I also had to add 2 full links to my chain, and there is really only 1 length that works. Any longer and the RD can't take up all the slack in the 11T and any shorter the cage would be fully stretched with zero throw left, which of course would be a bad day quickly on my full suspension bike. I used my previous chain and added lengths and quick links to find the correct length before sizing my new chain.......... EZ PZ.

    In the stand: Once the above settings were done, shifting up and down the cassette is no different than with my SRAM 1070 11-36T cassette. No issues whatsoever, anywhere in the cassette and in any direction.

    On the street: Same as above. I would not be able to tell any difference between the two bikes if I rode them back-to-back...... AWESOME! I was worried that adding 6 turns of B screw would compromise the shifting down smaller on the cassette, but my X9 medium RD is up to the task.

    Of course the real test will come in about 3hrs with my first ride, so I will remain cautiously optimistic. For the record, I am very picky about my bikes and hate when things aren't perfect....... Squeaky/howling brakes? Yea right. Clunky shifting? Hell no. So if this cassette passes my tests - and so far it easily has - then it should make most everyone else happy too.

    Attachment 1018571Attachment 1018572Attachment 1018573Attachment 1018574Attachment 1018575

  114. #114
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    Thanks for the real world testing, please keep it coming.
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    That's a sharp looking setup, D Bone. I've found that an 11-40 with Sram 10 speed bits shifts wonderfully. Better, in fact, than Shimano XT 10speed with all the add ons.

  116. #116
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    ^ Thanks dinger!

    Soooo, at the risk of sounding like a fanboy, wow! I just got back from my normal 11 mile, 1,500ft elevation loop, and I am beyond impressed. I only used the 40T on 3 different sections for probably 7-10 total minutes of my 1:20 min ride.

    I have been on my 30T/11-36T 1x10 for over 16 months and have never had to push my bike due to lack of a 1st gear - but it's been close, many a time. I have become a stronger rider because of it, both leg wise and mentally too.

    That being said, the 40T is awesome when needed and while not a huge difference, or "bail out" gear when compared to the 36, it is very noticeable and it made me feel stronger at the top of the climbs, with more in the tank.

    Performance on the trail: Once I was 2 miles into the ride, the cassette totally disappeared from my mind....... I mean that in a good way. There was no difference at all in shifts up or down, loaded or no load. There were no skips of any kind, or any other weird glitches.... Butta baby.

    As for the gearing, retaining the 36T is mandatory for me as it is my go to gear for most of my steep climbing, and other cassettes like Praxis lose that gear and turn it into a 34T. I also like the gearing in the middle of the cassette better than my 11-36 in regards to rolling singletrack where I'm in 4th-8th gear:

    40-36-32-28-24-21-18-15-13-11 (SunRace)
    36-32-28-25-22-19-17-15-13-11 (SRAM 1070)

    Hopefully I don't sound like too much of a school girl in love, but it's that good, and when coupled with the unbelievable price tag it's a no brainer. I'm a fan of value, and this is awesome value. I'll be buying a second cassette before SunRace realizes what they have, and raises the price tag.

  117. #117
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    There is one caveat, and that is if I back pedal while in the 40T the chain will fall onto the 36T cog. This is a known issue with any cassette/extended cog 40T or larger, and one that I'm OK with as it should never affect me while on the trail, and once I get used to it while doing maintenance on the stand, that too will not be an issue.

  118. #118
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    Aight was able to squeeze a trail ride in yesterday. Hell ya this is awesome, 40t like was said, isn't a big jump but looks to be that last bit of more gear I needed. Really loved the spacing too all through the cassette.

    As for shifting, I didn't notice it really being very off from what I had. Was off, but I was having enough fun I basically did t care enough to notice.

    As for Shimano shifting, on a 42t I could see the rad cage or goat link not quite being enough, but goat link now on with my 40t....

    Oh ya baby!!! That's what Im talking about. Had to adjust my limit screw just a hair to get a clean drop onto 11t, adjusted my b-limit a little so it was perfect and around the neighborhood and my yard, shifts great.



    Now just to space my chaineing over a mm or 2 so itll stop dropping off the 40 when back pedaling. That's more an ocd thing. Didn't backpedal when on 40t while riding (yet) so didn't have any issue.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    I just ordered a goatlink a bit ago, should clean up the shifting a bit. Only option short of replacing the RD.
    The other (and IMO best) option is the OneUp Radr cage. Fundamentally changes the position of the jockey wheel on any Shimano 10 sp der to work better with a wide range cassette. B screw goes back to normal position, shifting in other gears is no longer sacrificed. IMO the only reason to get a Goat Link over the Radr cage is that it's slightly cheaper, and it's definitely easier to install (though OneUp has a good install video).

  120. #120
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    These early reviews are encouraging! I've got to put a new drive train on this winter and I want to go with a slightly lower gearing while upping my ring from 28t to 30t. I think I've settled on the 11-40 with a 30t to give me just slightly lower gearing and I don't care as much about the top end but I could use it (very rarely) on a couple of road sections.

    I'm sick of staring at the gear-inch calculators!

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimw View Post
    The other (and IMO best) option is the OneUp Radr cage. Fundamentally changes the position of the jockey wheel on any Shimano 10 sp der to work better with a wide range cassette. B screw goes back to normal position, shifting in other gears is no longer sacrificed. IMO the only reason to get a Goat Link over the Radr cage is that it's slightly cheaper, and it's definitely easier to install (though OneUp has a good install video).

    Problem is, I would have to replace my derailleur to do that, it only works with Shimano GS derailleurs. no reason to go through all that thankfully. Goatlink it doesn't matter, in my case I have a short cage ZEE, so goatlink was only option.

  122. #122
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    Looks like Bikeman is out of stock on the 10 spd 42. Anybody know where to score one of these?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Problem is, I would have to replace my derailleur to do that, it only works with Shimano GS derailleurs. no reason to go through all that thankfully. Goatlink it doesn't matter, in my case I have a short cage ZEE, so goatlink was only option.
    The RADr cage is actually specifically made for the Saint and Zee, it includes both sides of the cage. Although before I spent $55 bucks on one I would sell my old derailleur and get a GS M8000 XT which will work better than any 10 speed Shimano or Sram derailleur at handling this cassette with zero modifications or tuning issues.

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaSweater View Post
    Looks like Bikeman is out of stock on the 10 spd 42. Anybody know where to score one of these?
    Yeah they're in and out of stock. I don't know why no one else has them yet.

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    A BTI rep told my LBS owner that "they only ordered 25, and he doesn't know when/if they'll order any more". My LBS was pissed as he placed 5 on "email notification"/"order when in stock" for his own inventory.

    Sounds like BTI needs some new purchasing agents.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
    A BTI rep told my LBS owner that "they only ordered 25, and he doesn't know when/if they'll order any more". My LBS was pissed as he placed 5 on "email notification"/"order when in stock" for his own inventory.

    Sounds like BTI needs some new purchasing agents.
    No doubt. Jeez I can't find these anywhere. I thought for sure they'd be all over the place by now. My guess is that the next batch comes at a much higher price.

  127. #127
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    They are on eBay. Are in England and you'd have to spend $113 to get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nbwallace View Post
    No doubt. Jeez I can't find these anywhere. I thought for sure they'd be all over the place by now. My guess is that the next batch comes at a much higher price.
    Sorry, between me and my pals we snapped up 5 or 6 of them, they really are a hell of a deal at $60. I hope the supply smooths out, it would be a shame if somebody finally got it right but couldn't meet the demand. And it would also suck if they jack up the price to take advantage of that shortage. I would have gladly paid more, but clearly they can make their money at $60 or they would have cost more to start with.

  129. #129
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    If I was going to spend 100+ id just buy a praxxis cassette. Thankfully I got one, should have ordered 2 though now lol. Getting a fat bike in a couple weeks would be perfect there too.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    If I was going to spend 100+ id just buy a praxxis cassette. Thankfully I got one, should have ordered 2 though now lol. Getting a fat bike in a couple weeks would be perfect there too.
    I asked the Praxis rep if they were going to make a 42T. He looked at me like I was nuts. Then he went onto explain that they are about performance without having to modify your derailleur (meaning Shimano). I guess he never heard of SRAM.

    I think they are losing sales by not making a 42T. They are going to lose more sales that Sunrace has their 11-40 cassettes.

    People just need to be patient. It was the same when the 42T cogs first came out. It just takes some time for the supply to get out.

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    I asked the Praxis rep if they were going to make a 42T. He looked at me like I was nuts. Then he went onto explain that they are about performance without having to modify your derailleur (meaning Shimano). I guess he never heard of SRAM.

    I think they are losing sales by not making a 42T. They are going to lose more sales that Sunrace has their 11-40 cassettes.

    People just need to be patient. It was the same when the 42T cogs first came out. It just takes some time for the supply to get out.
    I know of several sales they lost, I would have bought probably 3 myself by now. Yeah, they don't even want to hear about the 42t option. They really don't want to talk about it even though there are multiple ways to easily run a 42t cog and have it work very well.

    Now that the SunRace cassettes are out, well there is no way the Praxis cassette is over twice as good, especially with no 42t option. They will definitely lose more sales.

  132. #132
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    I tried the Praxis cassette. The alloy rings lasted 6 rides before they got all skippy. I used a brand new chain (KMC Gold). It worked wonderfully at first (32/26 front) but deteriorated quickly. I'm definitely down for the SunRace cassettes - I think they've got it right.

  133. #133
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    Its just me but I just don't see a point in the extra 2 teeth of a 42t. Running the gear inches didn't show me enough difference to mess with it.

    Glad sunrace went mostly steel cogs since praxxis cassettes, as I figured, were going to wear quickly (though 6 rides sounds like a set up issue to me, im still on my same NW ring from last year and no issues yet)

  134. #134
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    The 42 feels better to me when I'm tired. Its my bailout gear and I want the lowest gear possible when I really need it.

    SRAM used the 42T on their XX1. Who used the 40T first?

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    Yeah, I won't use anything smaller than 42t because my bike shifts it perfectly and I want all the range I can get since that is the primary limitation of a 1x drivetrain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    The RADr cage is actually specifically made for the Saint and Zee, it includes both sides of the cage. Although before I spent $55 bucks on one I would sell my old derailleur and get a GS M8000 XT which will work better than any 10 speed Shimano or Sram derailleur at handling this cassette with zero modifications or tuning issues.
    how does the 11 speed RD work on a 10 speed?

  137. #137
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    I was just going to ask that same question. I think I saw some threads in passing saying that the 11sp derailleur works fine with an otherwise 10sp drivetrain, which is pretty cool.

    In my case my trail bike also does duty as a DH bike, so I wanted a Saint derailleur on there, but also a wide range cassette for when I do trail rides on the same bike, so hence the Radr cage. Which yeah, as mentioned before is specifically designed for Saint/Zee (but can be used with *any* Shimano RD), no need to buy a new derailleur, not sure how that idea got floated.

    Also agree that the Praxis argument for not supporting 42t is completely bogus. Even with a 40t, a stock Shimano 10sp der is going to need modification to really shift properly. Sure you can make it "work" with just b-screw adjustment, but it won't shift well. Put a Radr on there and it will shift great... and will also shift great with a 42. And it's a moot issue for SRAM. Therefore, Praxis argument = bogus.

    And yes a 42t is a big enough difference in a bailout gear from a 40t to be worth it and noticeable.

    Oh one other thing, recently there were some comments about dropping the chain when backpedaling on the 40/42t. I've been on a OneUp 42t for most of the year and have never experienced this. Just tried it again today to be sure. If you're dropping, I would think it would be a chainline issue. Not that backpedaling in the 42t is an important thing to be able to do... but it shouldn't drop the chain.

    When my current drivetrain wears out I'll probably take a long hard look at these SunRace cassettes.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclinglymie View Post
    how does the 11 speed RD work on a 10 speed?
    Perfectly. The spacing is dead nuts on. You could actually think of it as the 10sp RDs are regular and the 11sp RDs are wide range, the gear count really doesn't matter, except nobody makes a non wide range 11 speed cassette. So if you are running a 40t or bigger, 10sp or 11sp, you want the 11 sp RD. Basically all they did with the 11sp RDs was optimize them for bigger cassette spreads without changing the cable pull ratio by bringing back an old feature, the offset upper jockey pulley. In much the same way a Rad cage changes the derailleur, except better since it is designed from the ground up that way so you avoid some possible problems the Rad cage can create.

  139. #139
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    Should work fine, since the indexing is done at the shifter. The 11sp RDs will accommodate the larger 40 and 42 cassettes better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclinglymie View Post
    how does the 11 speed RD work on a 10 speed?

  140. #140
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    thanks guys!

    Looking at picking up a used new to me 29er. (Giant Talon) huge upgrade on frame for me. Time for the Bikesdirect gravity to go! Well I'm 31 plus something lbs maybe 32 and I am usually running middle 32t of a triple 9speed 11-32 with my 22t chain ring being my bailout. Life seriously sucks being 5'8" with 175 crank arms and crap engagement, heavy bike. If I know one thing I don't want to be dropping a cog on backpedaling! ever especially if I am on bail out gear.

    So the new to me 29er is a double, maybe I'll like the double maybe I won't. Yet because I already usually run a 32 front as my usual chainring on heavy ass pig frame. going to 1x10 makes sense to me. Plus its an excuse to go with 170's. (I've ridden my 170 ss road bike enough now I'm even hating the 172.5's on the geared road bike, shrugs)

    between the deal on frame and wheels, I can put on a 100mm Manitou Marvel, pick up new crank, RD, and this SunRace. Being at minimal invested on a tight budget for a huge upgrade.

    So more than just picking up a cassette, I am looking to build a 1x10.

    So SunRace 11-42
    Shimano XT RD-M8000
    Not sure what I want for crank yet.... heck might as well pick up a shifter too. Yet I am also trying to keep cost down.

  141. #141
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    If you're going to pick up a new shifter...why not just go full 11 speed? XT shifter, derailleur, chain, and cassette. It's not going to cost much more and you'll be future proof for a while.

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    wheel compatibility?

    I really don't need bail out gears here either. I could probably get by with 1x10 XT 11-36. Light fast hardtail XC bike. yet If I can spend just a little extra and make the 11-42 work flawlessly. then It is worth the little extra.

    Shimano XT RD-M8000 RD $20 more than XT RD-M786 RD

    SunRace 11-42 $5 more than Shimano M771 XT

    give or take depends on who you buy from

  143. #143
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    Huh? Shimano 11-speed is compatible with all hubs. It's only SRAM 1x11 that requires an XD hub shell.

  144. #144
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    hence the " ? "

    again thank you.

  145. #145
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    Not sure if id call what your doing "keeping the cost down"lol. $100 for the rd, $60 cassette, $50 for a shifter. If you buy it all online and assuming you can go 1x10. It isn't for everyone.

    But if you going to spend the money replacing the drive train, he's right, might as well go 11s and be done with it. Shifter is $10 more, cassette is $50 more give or take. So extra $60 and your 11 speed.

    Your also forgetting the chain ring in you price, 1x10/11 chain ring (NW ring, gonna do it, do it right ) is another $50-60.

    Still if your building fresh and new, wanting 1x10, just go 11 speed, and DONT use a 2x crank. Use a 1x or 3x crank. Nasty chainline that way. And you said you didn't want backpedal issues lol.

  146. #146
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    there is cost in everything, and cost adds up.
    Hence the reason you all are buying a sunRace instead of converting your cassettes. less money spent.



    So between cheap, riding what you have.

    Or all out 11 speed 1x11 conversion.

    there is middle ground.

    Like spending $60 just for a granny gear. (SunRace) and then adding bits like goat links to make it work with a current RD. Middle ground like riding Marlins's etc... or is that Marlin lower than middle? You get the Idea though.

    Thanks for your help and review of the SunRace.

    I'll either ride the double,
    do my original idea of a 11-36 1x10 conversion
    or throw in a SunRace widespread cassette
    Or damn the penny pinching and just buy 11 speed.

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclinglymie View Post
    there is cost in everything, and cost adds up.
    Hence the reason you all are buying a sunRace instead of converting your cassettes. less money spent.



    So between cheap, riding what you have.

    Or all out 11 speed 1x11 conversion.

    there is middle ground.

    Like spending $60 just for a granny gear. (SunRace) and then adding bits like goat links to make it work with a current RD. Middle ground like riding Marlins's etc... or is that Marlin lower than middle? You get the Idea though.

    Thanks for your help and review of the SunRace.

    I'll either ride the double,
    do my original idea of a 11-36 1x10 conversion
    or throw in a SunRace widespread cassette
    Or damn the penny pinching and just buy 11 speed.
    It isn't all about cost, the very reasonable price of the SunRace is just a bonus. For some people, it is the best option because it is the only integrated, single source cassette that is available in 11-42t at a reasonable weight and price. It is the closest we are likely to get to Sram or Shimano stepping up and making what we have been wanting for 2 years now.

    IRD makes a very heavy and expensive option, and Praxis refuses to make a 42t option. Expander cogs work but are expensive, heavy, and complicated. And some people don't want 11 speeds because of the larger chainline compromise for zero benefit if you don't care about tighter gear gaps.

    For me the best value/performance drivetrain right now is 11 sp XT derailleur with 10sp XT shifter, you can get a 10sp XT shifter as cheap as $40, and the cassette is now also lighter and cheaper than the XT 11sp with the SunRace. Basically the same setup as all XT M8000 but lighter and cheaper with less critical chainline and the same gear range.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    For me the best value/performance drivetrain right now is 11 sp XT derailleur with 10sp XT shifter, you can get a 10sp XT shifter as cheap as $40, and the cassette is now also lighter and cheaper than the XT 11sp with the SunRace. Basically the same setup as all XT M8000 but lighter and cheaper with less critical chainline and the same gear range.
    Could you expand a little more on this. Is the advantage that the 11 spd cage is designed to work on a bigger cog? Sounds like the 10/11 speed shifters have same pull and the 11 spd derailleur goes where it's told. I ran a 9spd setup with an XT 10spd clutch der via SRAM shifter for a good while so I am not against mix-matching components if they function as designed.
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    ^ I am all ears

    Because, My original plan was these are all for a 1x either Raceface turbine Or XT M8000 cranks. AbsoluteBlack Oval 32.

    option 1
    M771 XT 11-36 (10) $55
    XT M786 RD $69
    XT M780 $39

    $163 (would also be the lightest set up, I think)


    But If SunRace can give me wide range for $5 more. and then the XT RD-M8000 is $20 more. It seems worth the extra cost at the lost of Dyna-Sys. big deal, not a big deal ? shrugs.

    option 2
    Sunrace 11-42 (10) $60
    XT M8000 RD $89
    XT M780 $39

    $188

    then I get a lol and told to do (11)

    option 3
    XT CS-M8000 11-42 $100
    XT M8000 RD $89
    XT SL-M8000 $60

    $249

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Could you expand a little more on this. Is the advantage that the 11 spd cage is designed to work on a bigger cog? Sounds like the 10/11 speed shifters have same pull and the 11 spd derailleur goes where it's told. I ran a 9spd setup with an XT 10spd clutch der via SRAM shifter for a good while so I am not against mix-matching components if they function as designed.
    Yes, it is as simple as that. The 10 speed RDs were designed around a 36t cog and while they are are somewhat tolerant of larger cogs they lose crispness with a 40t and flat out struggle to hit a 42t. The Rad cage is a pretty decent but not perfect fix if you have a nice derailleur you want to hang on to.

    The 11 speed RDs were designed for up to a 42t and seem to be tolerant of larger. They are directly interchangeable, shifter wise, with 10sp. The size of your big cog is all that matters. I believe some people are even going the other way and using their 10sp RD as part of a budget 11sp upgrade, although this would be the most likely scenario to cause problems. I have yet to hear of any difficulties running an 11sp RD in a 10 speed 1x drivetrain with an 11-42t cassette, I have been riding one myself for many months now and I have set up several other bikes this way.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclinglymie View Post
    option 1
    M771 XT 11-36 (10) $55
    XT M786 RD $69
    XT M780 $39

    $163 (would also be the lightest set up, I think)


    But If SunRace can give me wide range for $5 more. and then the XT RD-M8000 is $20 more. It seems worth the extra cost at the lost of Dyna-Sys. big deal, not a big deal ? shrugs.

    option 2
    Sunrace 11-42 (10) $60
    XT M8000 RD $89
    XT M780 $39

    $188
    The SunRace 11-42t is 53g heavier than an 11-36t XT cassette, and 15g or so grams lighter than going with a good expander cog setup on an XT.

  152. #152
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    Aight got a trail ride in with the goat link installed (had to work overtime during the week).

    Beautiful, shifts just like before. Really happy with this set up. And being I was riding with kids (take a kid mtbing day) I was all the way up and down the cassette several times. Never a funky shift, clunkiness or anything. Hope they get this supply issue figured out soon

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    Yes, it is as simple as that. The 10 speed RDs were designed around a 36t cog and while they are are somewhat tolerant of larger cogs they lose crispness with a 40t and flat out struggle to hit a 42t. The Rad cage is a pretty decent but not perfect fix if you have a nice derailleur you want to hang on to.

    The 11 speed RDs were designed for up to a 42t and seem to be tolerant of larger. They are directly interchangeable, shifter wise, with 10sp. The size of your big cog is all that matters. I believe some people are even going the other way and using their 10sp RD as part of a budget 11sp upgrade, although this would be the most likely scenario to cause problems. I have yet to hear of any difficulties running an 11sp RD in a 10 speed 1x drivetrain with an 11-42t cassette, I have been riding one myself for many months now and I have set up several other bikes this way.
    That's just awesome I will do this too! I reverted back to 11-36 because I didn't like shifting on the bottom of the cassette (and the jumps even with the 16T) with the OU 40T but the SR cassette and the 11sp XT RD sounds really promising. I don't want to give up 10 speed because I love the Saint shifter.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    Yes, it is as simple as that. The 10 speed RDs were designed around a 36t cog and while they are are somewhat tolerant of larger cogs they lose crispness with a 40t and flat out struggle to hit a 42t. The Rad cage is a pretty decent but not perfect fix if you have a nice derailleur you want to hang on to.

    The 11 speed RDs were designed for up to a 42t and seem to be tolerant of larger. They are directly interchangeable, shifter wise, with 10sp. The size of your big cog is all that matters. I believe some people are even going the other way and using their 10sp RD as part of a budget 11sp upgrade, although this would be the most likely scenario to cause problems. I have yet to hear of any difficulties running an 11sp RD in a 10 speed 1x drivetrain with an 11-42t cassette, I have been riding one myself for many months now and I have set up several other bikes this way.
    Cool info, thanks. So I take it you still run a 10 spd chain?

    Now I have to figure out if a Praxis is twice as good as one of these cassettes or vice versa these are only half as good or not.
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  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Cool info, thanks. So I take it you still run a 10 spd chain?

    Now I have to figure out if a Praxis is twice as good as one of these cassettes or vice versa these are only half as good or not.
    Yep, just a regular XT 10 speed chain.

    After getting my hands on a SunRace 11-42t, I don't think the Praxis is worth over double the cost for saving 65g with probably shorter life. The SunRace looks really nice, especially for the cost. And of course there is no 42t option from Praxis which is a deal-killer for me. Although I am currently not running either, so I can't directly comment on the performance. The SunRace I have is going on a friend's bike, I am using a Wolftooth 42t and about to try out a Garbaruk 3 cog expander.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    The SunRace 11-42t is 53g heavier than an 11-36t XT cassette, and 15g or so grams lighter than going with a good expander cog setup on an XT.
    yea the weight thing was rather a pointless point.



    Other than less gaps in gearing is there any real advantage to going 11 speed? over the 10 speed sunRace cassette?



    I am just looking for the best bang for my dollar, with the least amount of hassles. That is also why I am here. If I am buying the Sunrace & a RD I might as well buy the RD that works! and for $40 the XT shifter is a no brainer. yet the Saint shifter is tempting.

    Oh and the RD info is priceless, thank you!

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclinglymie View Post
    Other than less gaps in gearing is there any real advantage to going 11 speed? over the 10 speed sunRace cassette?
    Honestly, compared to a properly sorted 1x10, I see nothing but disadvantages to going 11 speed. It is heavier, more expensive, more finicky to set up, and probably noisier. Essentially all they did to achieve 11 speeds is hang a 42t on the back of a 10 speed cassette, which makes it both wider and heavier. This also makes the chainline more strained than it already was with 10 speed. I don't care about the very minor difference in gear to gear spread since you gain nothing in overall range. I like 10 speed just fine, I will be sticking with it for a long time.
    Last edited by VonFalkenhausen; 10-03-2015 at 06:58 PM.

  158. #158
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    Actually a bit off there. 11s is still condensed vs a 10speed. No way simple adding another cog to a 10s cassette wouldn't have a world of problems on current frame/rear hub spacing. The shifter is what makes the difference. There is 11 notches for gear select points in the same space as 10 was.



    Chainline is only strained not because of the speeds, but the big cogs. Matter of geometry there. The problem lies in that companies are barely starting to learn that their ignorance in design is the problem. Setting chainring(s) so the set is centered on the center of the cassette. To properly correct the problem, chain rings need to be moved in more. The lateral loads on a chain should be the same (same flex per link) whether in the big cog or small cog on a 1x set up. Basically so that the angle in which the chain leaves the chainring is identical on either big or small cog. 2 and 3x cranks built using the 1x proper ring position as true center. Not this rings centered on cassette garbage.

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Actually a bit off there. 11s is still condensed vs a 10speed. No way simple adding another cog to a 10s cassette wouldn't have a world of problems on current frame/rear hub spacing. The shifter is what makes the difference. There is 11 notches for gear select points in the same space as 10 was.



    Chainline is only strained not because of the speeds, but the big cogs. Matter of geometry there. The problem lies in that companies are barely starting to learn that their ignorance in design is the problem. Setting chainring(s) so the set is centered on the center of the cassette. To properly correct the problem, chain rings need to be moved in more. The lateral loads on a chain should be the same (same flex per link) whether in the big cog or small cog on a 1x set up. Basically so that the angle in which the chain leaves the chainring is identical on either big or small cog. 2 and 3x cranks built using the 1x proper ring position as true center. Not this rings centered on cassette garbage.
    Nope, what I said is correct. They did not squeeze 11 speeds into the space of 10. The cog pitch may be very slightly tighter, and the chains are very slightly different, but go ahead and compare a couple of cassettes. They were able to put another cog on the back because the spokes angle away and create the room for a large cog. This is why you will hear complaints about 11 speed chainline issues where 10 speed worked fine. Not everybody has this problem, but it is a bigger compromise by design. Road 11 speed has a significant difference in cog pitch from 10 speed because they had to fit the 11 cogs into the same space, unlike mountain where the wheel geometry provided the space.

  160. #160
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    Yup. Frankly I think a wide ratio 10-speed would be a better solution. Better chain line and do we really need all of these closely spaced ratios for mountian biking?

  161. #161
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    Just ordered some Sunrace cassettes for testing, i am very excited to see what they look like. Apparently there are 2 versions out there, MS3 and MX3, they both come in 11-40 or 11-42. I only found the 11-42 MS3 and 11-40 MX3 in stock in my area so that made my choice easier. Price was the same as a stand alone 42t cog. Pics, weights, test report to follow.

  162. #162
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    Hi everyone. Can I get away with a mid cage Sram X7 rear derailleur with a 11-42 Sunrace cassette and longer b-tension screw? Or do I need a long cage Sram rear derailleur with longer b-tension screw?

  163. #163
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    Mid cage x7 works fine. No need for a longer screw, just turn it in a bit.

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by syl3 View Post
    Just ordered some Sunrace cassettes for testing, i am very excited to see what they look like. Apparently there are 2 versions out there, MS3 and MX3, they both come in 11-40 or 11-42. I only found the 11-42 MS3 and 11-40 MX3 in stock in my area so that made my choice easier. Price was the same as a stand alone 42t cog. Pics, weights, test report to follow.
    Cassettes are in, i can't tell what the difference is between MS3 and MX3, i was expecting a big difference like slx vs xt level because ms3 was a bit cheaper. They are exactly the same spider/cluster configuration except the MX3 came with a red spider and lockring and the ms3 had the alloy bits in black.

    Weights are about 385g for MX3 11-40 and 450g for MS3 11-42.

    Ride report to follow

  165. #165
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    Very nice, syl3. That's your 1000s post btw. Congrats.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by syl3 View Post
    Cassettes are in, i can't tell what the difference is between MS3 and MX3, i was expecting a big difference like slx vs xt level because ms3 was a bit cheaper. They are exactly the same spider/cluster configuration except the MX3 came with a red spider and lockring and the ms3 had the alloy bits in black.

    Weights are about 385g for MX3 11-40 and 450g for MS3 11-42.

    Ride report to follow
    The MX3's largest sprocket is made from 7075 aluminum, while the same cog on the MS3 is made from steel, like the other 9 cogs on the cassette.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-sh...l#post12045826

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
    The MX3's largest sprocket is made from 7075 aluminum, while the same cog on the MS3 is made from steel, like the other 9 cogs on the cassette.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-sh...l#post12045826
    ??Why is the MS lighter then??
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  168. #168
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    Read above, where do you get lighter???? Its 65g HEAVIER.

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Read above, where do you get lighter???? Its 65g HEAVIER.
    Dislexia it seems....
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  170. #170
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    I just installed the MS3 (42T - measured 454gr) on my friend's Specialized Enduro. I had to put longer adjustment screw in the X0 rear derailleur and it works good. I could try it around the house only because the rain just started but there were no issues with shifting. Hopefully I can try it properly tomorow but so far so good, it looks and feels promising.

    SunRace cassette , wide range-rx100iv_0390.jpgSunRace cassette , wide range-rx100iv_0402.jpg

  171. #171
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    Anyone have these in stock, anywhere?

  172. #172
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    the 10-speed, I'd like to know too.

    There are 11-speed versions at bikeman for $63. Almost worth it to get the $40 shifter and $25 chain. Think SRAM x9 10-speed derailure would work with 11-speed shifters, or new derailure too?
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbwallace View Post
    Anyone have these in stock, anywhere?
    They are available, but you're going to pay more than double of what Bikeman is selling them for. Mostly on eBay from the UK, Spain, and Italy.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    the 10-speed, I'd like to know too.

    There are 11-speed versions at bikeman for $63. Almost worth it to get the $40 shifter and $25 chain. Think SRAM x9 10-speed derailure would work with 11-speed shifters, or new derailure too?
    I believe new derailleur too since the pull rates are different, but some people swear up and down that they've somehow gotten it to work, though I cant figure out how it would be possible.

    That being said, the gx stuff is great at a low price point. But the real benefit is the 10t cog on the sram 11 speed stuff. Without that 10t cog, the narrower spacing isn't enough to warrant the expense, IMO.

  175. #175
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    Not sure about 10sp SRAM RD with a 11sp shifter, but a 10sp SRAM shifter should work with a Force 1 or Rival 1 11sp rear derailleur. The "road" derailleurs use the same Exact Actuation as the 10sp mountain derailleurs.

    11 (Exact Actuation™) - 10sp compatible

    https://www.sram.com/sram/road/produ...railleur#specs

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    Nope, what I said is correct. They did not squeeze 11 speeds into the space of 10. The cog pitch may be very slightly tighter, and the chains are very slightly different, but go ahead and compare a couple of cassettes. They were able to put another cog on the back because the spokes angle away and create the room for a large cog. This is why you will hear complaints about 11 speed chainline issues where 10 speed worked fine. Not everybody has this problem, but it is a bigger compromise by design. Road 11 speed has a significant difference in cog pitch from 10 speed because they had to fit the 11 cogs into the same space, unlike mountain where the wheel geometry provided the space.

    If what you said is true you could use a 10spd shifter on an 11spd cog and only get 10 of the cogs but you can't because the spacing between the cogs on an 11spd is narrower.You sir are incorrect.

  177. #177
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    The cog spacing between 10 (3.95) and 11sp (3.90) look to be pretty close.

    Art's Cyclery Blog » Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideonjon View Post
    If what you said is true you could use a 10spd shifter on an 11spd cog and only get 10 of the cogs but you can't because the spacing between the cogs on an 11spd is narrower.You sir are incorrect.
    I wouldn't say it's full blown incorrect. There is truth, but it's a mixture of both offsetting the cogs closer to the spokes and the narrow cog distance. I'd make a good bet that you can use a 10-speed shifter with 11-speed cassette, but you're only going to get reliable shifting in about 7 or 8 gears. The rest will be right at the limit where you get some funky chain grab. In a pinch, it'll work, but for long term, 11 speed shifter with 11-speed cassette.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  179. #179
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    All this means that you could use a 10 speed sram shifter and 10 speed sram derailleur on the first 10 cogs of an 11 speed cassette. But since the sram 11 speed stuff has a different pull rate, mixing 11 speed shifters with 10 speed derailleurs will result in improper indexing. It appears the 11 speed pull rate is 12% higher than the 10 speed stuff, so the first index will be 12% off, the second index will be 24% off, then 36% and 48% off. At this point, you're indexing exactly between gears.

    Maybe the shimano stuff is close enough to work, but I doubt sram would. All of this assuming that Art's numbers are correct.

  180. #180
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    read up on other posts, and it sounds like some people used an 11-tooth cassette with a 10 speed drivetrain. Used an 11-speed chain, removed a lower 13T cog and added in a small spacer to the back. I think the cog and spacer were more about getting the 11-cassette to fit on the freehub though. tempted to be a guinea pig, but I like my 10-speed.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbwallace View Post
    Anyone have these in stock, anywhere?
    I have added my email to both Bikeman.com and Universalcycles.com for notification as to when they come back in stock. Could not find in stock anywhere for the 10spd cassette.

  182. #182
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  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Right but the shifter and derailleur are both 11 speed, and the limiter is set to limit to only the first 10 positions. Running an 11 speed shifter with a 10 speed derailleur is a completely different story.

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Right but the shifter and derailleur are both 11 speed, and the limiter is set to limit to only the first 10 positions. Running an 11 speed shifter with a 10 speed derailleur is a completely different story.
    I can see that not working with SRAM...but Shimano...the pull ratio is the same. Are there not guys running Shimano 11sp shifters with 10sp derailleurs with 11sp cassettes?

    All it really says is that the cog pitch between the 10 and 11sp cassettes are close enough that they can work with each other.

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    I can see that not working with SRAM...but Shimano...the pull ratio is the same. Are there not guys running Shimano 11sp shifters with 10sp derailleurs with 11sp cassettes?
    I haven't followed what people are doing with shimano, but if the pull rate is the same, and the cog pitch is close enough, it probably does work, at least for 10 of the 11 cogs. No idea if the derailleur has enough swing for that 11th cog, and it may be application specific.

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Right but the shifter and derailleur are both 11 speed, and the limiter is set to limit to only the first 10 positions. Running an 11 speed shifter with a 10 speed derailleur is a completely different story.
    If you mix up shifter/derailure. However, a 10-speed cassette works with a 11-speed drivetrain, therefore, a 11-speed cassette should work with a 10-speed drivetrain. Cog spacing is close enough. Now have to see if a 10-speed chain will work with an 11-speed cassette, or buy a new chain and see if a 11-speed chain will work with the 10-speed derailure jockey wheels and chainring.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    If you mix up shifter/derailure. However, a 10-speed cassette works with a 11-speed drivetrain, therefore, a 11-speed cassette should work with a 10-speed drivetrain. Cog spacing is close enough. Now have to see if a 10-speed chain will work with an 11-speed cassette, or buy a new chain and see if a 11-speed chain will work with the 10-speed derailure jockey wheels and chainring.
    But wasnt mixing and matching the shifter and derailleur what you originally wanted to know? I thought that was how we got on this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    the 10-speed, I'd like to know too.

    There are 11-speed versions at bikeman for $63. Almost worth it to get the $40 shifter and $25 chain. Think SRAM x9 10-speed derailure would work with 11-speed shifters, or new derailure too?

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    I haven't followed what people are doing with shimano, but if the pull rate is the same, and the cog pitch is close enough, it probably does work, at least for 10 of the 11 cogs. No idea if the derailleur has enough swing for that 11th cog, and it may be application specific.
    The pull ratio for dirt is different between 10 and 11sp...but on the road side...its the same. The Rival and Force 1 (not to be confused with the 22 road) 11sp rear derailleurs both use Exact Actuation vs the X on the MTB side.

    If I can find a good deal on a Rival 1 RD...it's something I want to try out.

    Left is Rival/Force 1, right is XX1
    SunRace cassette , wide range-img_1749.jpg

  189. #189
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    I'm surprised roadie derailleures have the parallelogram angle, jockey wheel offset, and B limit enough to clear a 42T cog, but Ive never ever even touched a road mech, so I honestly have no idea. I would have figured they'd want to keep the jockey wheel close to the cassette, which obviously does not get as big as dirt on the low end.

    But youve got me thinking, i wonder if you could wrap the cable in something to make it ride 12% above the groove where it makes the turn before the anchor, giving it more leverage but less throw per click. Maybe you might get lucky.

    EDIT: Actually, it only needs the cable to be about 3.9% further away from the pivot point to take up the extra pull rate.

  190. #190
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    For the most part the SRAM stuff has always been compatible between road and dirt. That stopped when XX1 came out. Before WiFLi came out for road, you used to see pro tour riders use XX derailleurs and cassettes on the super steep mountain stages.

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  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    For the most part the SRAM stuff has always been compatible between road and dirt. That stopped when the XX1 came out. Before the WiFLi came out for road, you used to see pro tour riders use XX derailleurs and cassettes on the super steep mountain stages.
    But derailleurs and cassettes in conjunction would make sense. A 36t cassette and a road derailleur seems less logical. It may well work assuming the derailleur has the capacity. A quick look on the sram website says the 10 speed rival has a 32t capacity. Maybe it's because it lacks an offset jockey wheel.

    Anyway, I hope nobody takes my comments as an argument. I'm just enjoying spitballing some mechanical hypothesis.

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    But derailleurs and cassettes in conjunction would make sense. A 36t cassette and a road derailleur seems less logical. It may well work assuming the derailleur has the capacity. A quick look on the sram website says the 10 speed rival has a 32t capacity. Maybe it's because it lacks an offset jockey wheel.

    Anyway, I hope nobody takes my comments as an argument. I'm just enjoying spitballing some mechanical hypothesis.
    The road WiFli has the max at 32T, but the road 1x derailleurs are essentially the mountain 1x derailleurs...but with different cable entry. The "long" cage Rival 1 can take up to a 42T.

    10 or 11-speed 1x road systems

    Medium 11-26 through 11-36, and Long 10-42

    https://www.sram.com/sram/road/produ...ear-derailleur

    My girlfriend's road bike is running the WiFLi with a 32T cassette.

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    But wasnt mixing and matching the shifter and derailleur what you originally wanted to know? I thought that was how we got on this topic.
    Originally, yes, but someone posted the link that broke out cog offsets that said it won't work and then a video with something that did work. Changed targets. Mostly discussing ideas on what might, and what definately does not work.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  194. #194
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    Anyone wanna discus the SunRace cassette?

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
    Anyone wanna discus the SunRace cassette?
    What's there to discuss until someone starts selling them again.

  196. #196
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    They are for sale. The sunrace 11-speed wide range cassette is available for $63 off bikeman, and it may be compatible with a 10-speed drivetrain. That's what this discussion has been about, because the 10-speed cassette is sold out with no idea when they'll get more.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  197. #197
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    It was meant mostly as a joke, hence the smilie face.

    And yes, the 11 speed is still in stock, but using it on a 10 speed drivetrain negates the wide range. Why go through the hassle for 13-42, when you can keep your 11-36 and drop 2 teeth up front? Youll come out ahead with a wider range than only using 10/11th of the cassette. Yes, the odd person may run into issues where the BCD wont support a lower front gear, but I believe those people are few and far between.

    If its a stop gap measure until you can afford the rest of the 11 speed drivetrain, thats another matter, and youll have to weigh the pros and cons for yourself.

  198. #198
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    Going from my original XT/OneUp, to X9 to the Response cassette to X0 and the Garbaruk stuff...I could have gone XX1...and beyond. For me it's more about tinkering than buying 11sp and being done. I could totally go 11sp anytime I want...but what fun is that?

    I just want to see how far I can take my 10sp setup.

    If I can get my hands on a 10sp Sunrace...I'd gladly get one...compare it to my Response and talk about it here.

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    I rode the MS3 42T setup today and it works perfectly with the SRAM setup. I didn't feel any significant difference compare to the 11-36 cassette. The shifting might be a little bit noisier but everything is new so it needs to break in. Other than that the quality of shifting is great.
    After the success with the SRAM setup I installed the cassette on my bike to try it with XT (medium cage). I had to max the adjustement screw to clear the 42T and it worked fine. The shifts are a little bit slower on the bottom of the cassette in the higher gears compare to the 11-36 cassette but much better than the OneUp 40T + 16T setup that I had before.

    I ordered the cassette from here and arrived in four days (from UK to Hungary):
    SunRace MS3 Cassette MTB 10 Speed Champagne 11 - 42 T Wide Range - cranknuts.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by rideonjon View Post
    If what you said is true you could use a 10spd shifter on an 11spd cog and only get 10 of the cogs but you can't because the spacing between the cogs on an 11spd is narrower.You sir are incorrect.
    Actually what I said is exactly correct, please go and put your eyes on 10 speed and 11 speed cassettes and compare them. I never claimed that you could use a 10 speed shifter with an 11 speed cassette, and I don't know why anyone ever would, for obvious reasons. I never said the spacing was exactly the same, but it is very close, and the mounted position of the biggest cog on an 11 speed cassette is inboard of the big cog on a 10 speed. All you have to do is actually look at them instead of pretending you know what you are talking about on the internet.

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