Sram Eagle AXS is finally here.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Sram Eagle AXS is finally here.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-w...explained.html

    Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-w...explained.html

    Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.

    I'm sure shifter/derailleur will be available soon.
    Denver, CO

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-w...explained.html

    Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.
    You can
    https://r2-bike.com/SRAM-XX1-Eagle-A...ntial-Kit-1x12

    All kits
    https://r2-bike.com/SRAM_10

  4. #4
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    Sorry, we can't ship this item to your country!

    Not in the USA.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  5. #5
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    It seems to me like Ultegra DI2 has been a lot more popular than XT. I'm not sure if that's true, just my impression. I think the same will go for etap and AXS. But Alex Nutt posted this on the MTB Tandems facebook group, and it made me stop and think about that. For a MTB tandem it's great. Especially if it has couplers.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Sorry, we can't ship this item to your country!

    Not in the USA.
    #NewWorldProblems

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    It seems to me like Ultegra DI2 has been a lot more popular than XT. I'm not sure if that's true, just my impression. I think the same will go for etap and AXS. But Alex Nutt posted this on the MTB Tandems facebook group, and it made me stop and think about that. For a MTB tandem it's great. Especially if it has couplers.
    The reason is that XT 11 speeds never got the effective ratios of sram and they have been late on 12speeds. For road use the cassette ranges and front derailuer usage do not seperate sram and shimano as much.


    The best thing about wireless is the much cleaner set-up for both dropper and shifting. The long term response will be based on reliability/durability.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", 19' Vassago Optimus Ti SS 29", '19 Ibis Ripmo, XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  8. #8
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    It looks great and would be fantastic on a new build. It would be nice though if they had a package that also included a Quarq PM, as having to buy that on top makes for a really expensive groupset.

    Hopefully it won't be long before the shifter and derailleur are available separately.

  9. #9
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    The price is nuts

  10. #10
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    Wonder how it handles multiple quick shifts in a row? I've always been a bit rough with my drivetrain, even more so thanks to 1x and the need to often rapidly move up/down the cassette, and that's my main reason for sticking with Shimano 11sp at the moment. I'm not sure I'd be happy with this set up if I can't grab a "thumbfull" of gears when I hit a steep pinch.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Wonder how it handles multiple quick shifts in a row? I've always been a bit rough with my drivetrain, even more so thanks to 1x and the need to often rapidly move up/down the cassette, and that's my main reason for sticking with Shimano 11sp at the moment. I'm not sure I'd be happy with this set up if I can't grab a "thumbfull" of gears when I hit a steep pinch.
    I can hammer through regular eagle as quick as my finger will work the trigger... I imagine this is no different. From what I hear from a local tester it’s pretty sick!
    Denver, CO

  12. #12
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    it shifts as many times as you click, click 11 times it shifts 11 times, perfectly, everytime!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale-Calgary View Post
    The price is nuts
    Finally SRAM has a shifting system to match the price of their cassettes!

  14. #14
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    Shifting threw the whole cassette or just a couple steps with 1 push is programmable.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  15. #15
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    Lol...the price for the AXS shifter, derailleur and charger is almost the same at the eTap for road bikes. You get an extra shifter and front derailleur for less!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Lol...the price for the AXS shifter, derailleur and charger is almost the same at the eTap for road bikes. You get an extra shifter and front derailleur for less!
    That's interesting, it's usually the other way around.

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    Okay I thought it was $1900 for just the derailleur and shifter but it's for the entire setup.

    Now I'm interested to add it to my x01.

  18. #18
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    So if you have an eagle cassette already. Than its just the shifter/controller and derailluer? Doesn’t matter what crankset you have. Is this correct?

    Here is a thought. Think a sunrace 12 speed cassette would work ? It worked on my eagle drivetrain.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyking1231 View Post
    So if you have an eagle cassette already. Than its just the shifter/controller and derailluer? Doesn’t matter what crankset you have. Is this correct?

    Here is a thought. Think a sunrace 12 speed cassette would work ? It worked on my eagle drivetrain.
    Yep shifter and derailleur. No experience with sunrace. Now we wait for 3 months or more for the separate parts.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  20. #20
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    Yawn

    None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care?

    Extremely expensive (expected), guaranteed to fail on the first day of your epic Moab trip (good luck finding spare parts at a LBS), etc.

    I know some people are always going to be excited about new tech, but really where's the benefit? (go ahead, tell me how it weighs 35 grams less. Then I'll remind you that it works on a battery)

    I'm holding out for the 14 speed version.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Yawn

    None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care?

    Extremely expensive (expected), guaranteed to fail on the first day of your epic Moab trip (good luck finding spare parts at a LBS), etc.

    I know some people are always going to be excited about new tech, but really where's the benefit? (go ahead, tell me how it weighs 35 grams less. Then I'll remind you that it works on a battery)
    I'm holding out for the 14 speed version.
    Simple:
    Because I Can.

    Besides, that tie-dyed cassette and chain look sweet. Tie dyed (oil slick) is the new purple ano.
    . . . . . . . .

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Yawn

    None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care?

    Extremely expensive (expected), guaranteed to fail on the first day of your epic Moab trip (good luck finding spare parts at a LBS), etc.

    I know some people are always going to be excited about new tech, but really where's the benefit? (go ahead, tell me how it weighs 35 grams less. Then I'll remind you that it works on a battery)

    I'm holding out for the 14 speed version.
    Don't really care about the money (within reason) if it performs better. Besides after I get my discount and sell my used Eagle parts, the investment would be quite low.

    That said, i'm wondering if I would be better served by the 11 speed short derailleur XTR. A bit lighter, simpler, and my understanding is that Shimano consistently shifts better. Thoughts?

    Also, how will AXS do with my oval chainring?

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  23. #23
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    Ok, I am using eTap now for three years. No failures and never had to adjust the derailures even after swapping out the cassette for conditions. No cables or housings to replace. No adjustments during a ride to get perfect shifting every time. I am running 50/34 and 11-32. Now with a 46/33 and 10-33, I get both lower and higher gears I am now using. Improves my range at both ends of the cassette. And only one tooth jumps 10-15 and 10-17 with the 10-28. While not a game changer, it sure makes things better. And yes it can make you faster. When I am accelerating on smooth hard pack, running through the gears at one tooth jumps keeps my cadence just where I produce the most power. Lastly, spending money is just setting your priorities. Besides once spent, you quickly forget about the cash but you have one hella of a group set. After I get and install the deal, I will be giving away my old eTap including the 11-25 and 11-32 cassettes minus the blippers as I am keeping them. Will you be the lucky recipeant of my old eTap?

  24. #24
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    [QUOTE=alexbn921;13977416]Yep shifter and derailleur. No experience with sunrace. Now we wait for 3 months or more for the separate parts.[/QUOT

    I was told yesterday that some individual parts are available now but ALL separate parts will be available no later than April 1st. Not the Shamono situation repeated I have been assured.
    Last edited by Pedalon2018; 02-07-2019 at 09:16 AM.

  25. #25
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    Can you get us a discount too? We are deserving!

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    Once the shifter and derailleur are available separately, I would anticipate they are going to fly off the shelves. There are going to be a lot of individuals who already have Eagle that will make the jump.

  27. #27
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    Cool, but I'd be about the last to use them on my fatbikes in -20 to -40°F temps. Don't want electrics hanging off the bike due to this, but for a majority of riders, I think this is a neat thing.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Yawn

    None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care?

    Extremely expensive (expected), guaranteed to fail on the first day of your epic Moab trip (good luck finding spare parts at a LBS), etc.

    I know some people are always going to be excited about new tech, but really where's the benefit? (go ahead, tell me how it weighs 35 grams less. Then I'll remind you that it works on a battery)

    I'm holding out for the 14 speed version.
    Agreed. Only advantage I can see is bar spins.

    I guess not dealing with cables is nice but that seems to be offset by having to charge the batteries.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), 91 Schwinn High Plain (single speed "gravel" bike), Nashbar CXSS (on trainer)

  29. #29
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    All I know is that the 12 speed Eagle derailleur already seems more prone to being damaged out riding - either by sticks getting caught in the derailleur/wheels or smacking against rocks. It's already $110+ to replace an Eagle GX derailleur. I don't know what an AXS derailleur will cost to replace, but I doubt I'd be willing to pay the price.

    Clearly I will not be an early adopter...

  30. #30
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    This is a lot like the carbonated vs fuel injected on cars and then motorcycles. Or switching from mouses with balls to lasers.
    Less weight is far down my list compared to perfect fast shifts that never need to be adjusted. Also the effort to shift is something you don't think about, but very apparent when you ride electronic shifting.

    Not for everyone. Cost sucks! I would not put it on a cold weather bike.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    This is a lot like the carbonated vs fuel injected on cars and then motorcycles. Or switching from mouses with balls to lasers....
    I think that came out a lot funnier than you intended.
    What, me worry?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    Agreed. Only advantage I can see is bar spins.

    I guess not dealing with cables is nice but that seems to be offset by having to charge the batteries.
    advantages...
    bigger gear range smaller jumps
    no replacement ever needed for cables and housings
    perfect shifts every time.
    Huge reduction in maintainance
    Cleans up bike with no cables running to derailures or handlebar or battery
    Cons...
    mostly a one time expense, a big one however. I do not even recall what I paid for my first eTap as I forgot after a few weeks. Just numbers on paper till the number reaches zero.
    Need to charge the battery once a month. How many times do you charge your phone or GPS? More than once a month for sure.

    yep, if you crash and take out the derailure it will cost you more. Since 1966 I only damaged one derailure in all my crashes. You can crash your bike and destroy it so I believe that is not a real argument.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Cool, but I'd be about the last to use them on my fatbikes in -20 to -40°F temps. Don't want electrics hanging off the bike due to this, but for a majority of riders, I think this is a neat thing.
    sir, my hat is off you you! Riding in minus any degree is off my bucket list. My cars do not even work right a 20 below as I just discovered. So yes, no electrics in very cold weather but......you will never find me riding in those temps! Never! I plowed snow at -16 dergree F on a Gator last week which was fine but not bike riding. Whimp over and. out!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-w...explained.html

    Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.
    nme

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    I'm sure shifter/derailleur will be available soon.
    I am really not so sure what a REAR electronic shifter does for you. It being Shimano or SRAM. For the few among us who still use a double, or triple, or for roadies, yes it might, might, give a bit of a smoother and reliable action to change chain ring. But for 1x? My 11 speed XTR is completely transparent: the only sign that I changed cog is the difference I feel in my legs ...

    The only place where I can see a minute advantage for electronics is with ergonomics. Give me complete flexibility for the position of a very small pod and I would be a tiny bit happier than now. This is not what SRAM is doing. The pod looks big, it hosts a battery, and quite disappointingly it does not seem to be adjustable.

    Weight is an unknown, but I doubt it is going to be lighter than a mech.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    I am really not sure what a REAR electronic shifter does for you. for the few among us who still use a double, or triple, front, yes it might give a bit of smoother and reliable actions but for 1x? My XTR is completely transparent.

    The only place where I can see a minute advantage is with ergonomics. Give me completely flexibility for the position of a very small pod and I would be a tiny bit happier than now. This is not what SRAM is doing here. The pod looks big, it hosts a batter, and distressingly does not seem to be adjustable.

    Weight is an unknown, but I doubt it is going to be lighter than a mech.
    I use four blips on my ride and this is how I shift. You can put the blips anywhere you want. Many ways to shift this system. You can use Shimano electric shifter and time trail shifters if you like. As far as pros of these systems, they have already been stated. Don’t like it, don’t buy it. I am first in line! On your left!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    This is a lot like the carbonated vs fuel injected on cars and then motorcycles. Or switching from mouses with balls to lasers.
    Less weight is far down my list compared to perfect fast shifts that never need to be adjusted. Also the effort to shift is something you don't think about, but very apparent when you ride electronic shifting.

    Not for everyone. Cost sucks! I would not put it on a cold weather bike.
    perfect shift every time is what these systems are about. And no or almost no maintainance ever needed to keep it shifting that way. I have been on Di2 and Red eTap for three years. Never failed me once. No adjustment done even when swapping out the cassettes. Amazing systems. I was so opposed to electrics when Di2 first came out until.....I rode one. Now Only my Fatty Farley is still cable pull. These systems are great. I will never go back to spinning barrel adjusters, wrenching on my derailures, replacing cables or housings or loss of shift quality in mud and cold. On your left!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    I am really not so sure what a REAR electronic shifter does for you.


    I think that would be hard to determine until you used it for awhile, lots of road riders who use electronic shifting say they would never go back to cables and it seems like the benefits for mtb would be even greater.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    perfect shift every time is what these systems are about. And no or almost no maintainance ever needed to keep it shifting that way. I have been on Di2 and Red eTap for three years. Never failed me once. No adjustment done even when swapping out the cassettes. Amazing systems. I was so opposed to electrics when Di2 first came out until.....I rode one. Now Only my Fatty Farley is still cable pull. These systems are great. I will never go back to spinning barrel adjusters, wrenching on my derailures, replacing cables or housings or loss of shift quality in mud and cold. On your left!
    I'm with you - 16 months of eTap on my gravel bike (7,000 miles) with zero issues. It just works. Chunky/rocky gravel, and riding in temps down to 10's F with snow, ice and grit have not impacted the flawless performance.

    I have had xx1 on my fat bike since Feb 2015. Ive ridden the hell out of it, and maintained it (sort of). However, it is getting more difficult to keep it running well. It does need a complete overhaul and new cables, but instead I will definitely upgrade the shifter, derailleur and cassette when the Eagle AXS components are available this Spring.

  40. #40
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    Having one bike XT Di2, one bike XTR Di2, and one Ultegra Di2.... electronic drivetrains are bulletproof. I have no issues with it in any weather either.
    I feel eshifting is more important on the mountain bike or cyclocross bike though. Mud and crap, or ice buildup to deal with, that the Di2 just doesn't care about.

    But, that price is absolutely ridiculous!

    I just say though, I think I'd prefer the simplicity of a single battery for the system, like on the Di2.
    I cant see....but does the SRAM stuff give you any battery indication? Di2, there is ZERO excuse to run out of battery, as the display unit constantly shows your battery life. If you don't want display, you can have a wireless transmitter that makes your cyclocomputer display the battery life.
    I would assume SRAM has something similar, but who knows.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Cool, but I'd be about the last to use them on my fatbikes in -20 to -40°F temps. Don't want electrics hanging off the bike due to this, but for a majority of riders, I think this is a neat thing.
    Holy Hell, -40 degrees.

    Sometimes I ride by myself in like +48 degree weather and I imagine having a failure or crash and freezing to death overnight, even though I can usually see rooftops from the trails. Texans eh?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I just say though, I think I'd prefer the simplicity of a single battery for the system, like on the Di2.
    I cant see....but does the SRAM stuff give you any battery indication? Di2, there is ZERO excuse to run out of battery, as the display unit constantly shows your battery life. If you don't want display, you can have a wireless transmitter that makes your cyclocomputer display the battery life.
    I would assume SRAM has something similar, but who knows.
    Yes, there are a couple of ways. The primary method is that each derailleur, and each shifter has a small indicator that lights up each time it is activated (green is good, red is low 5-15 hours left, and flashing red is less than 5-10 hours). I just get used to checking it every few days, and have never run out. Also, the batteries are small, and I always carry a fully charged spare in my saddle bag.

    You can also pair the system to your Garmin and you will get a battery low message on the Garmin screen - I have never had the need for this.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Having one bike XT Di2, one bike XTR Di2, and one Ultegra Di2.... electronic drivetrains are bulletproof. I have no issues with it in any weather either.
    I feel eshifting is more important on the mountain bike or cyclocross bike though. Mud and crap, or ice buildup to deal with, that the Di2 just doesn't care about.

    But, that price is absolutely ridiculous!

    I just say though, I think I'd prefer the simplicity of a single battery for the system, like on the Di2.
    I cant see....but does the SRAM stuff give you any battery indication? Di2, there is ZERO excuse to run out of battery, as the display unit constantly shows your battery life. If you don't want display, you can have a wireless transmitter that makes your cyclocomputer display the battery life.
    I would assume SRAM has something similar, but who knows.
    It sounds great and I want it but I still think spending lots of money on the drivetrain isnt the best way to spend your money.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale-Calgary View Post
    It sounds great and I want it but I still think spending lots of money on the drivetrain isnt the best way to spend your money.
    I agree with you. I love both systems but if I could not afford it or make it a priority, you will be fine . After all, old heads have been using cable pulls of some type since the mid 60’s. But these systems keep the whole deal fresh and fun! So I drop the cash. Sorry folks in my will.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    advantages...
    bigger gear range smaller jumps
    no replacement ever needed for cables and housings
    perfect shifts every time.
    Huge reduction in maintainance
    Cleans up bike with no cables running to derailures or handlebar or battery
    Cons...
    mostly a one time expense, a big one however. I do not even recall what I paid for my first eTap as I forgot after a few weeks. Just numbers on paper till the number reaches zero.
    Need to charge the battery once a month. How many times do you charge your phone or GPS? More than once a month for sure.

    yep, if you crash and take out the derailure it will cost you more. Since 1966 I only damaged one derailure in all my crashes. You can crash your bike and destroy it so I believe that is not a real argument.
    How is it a bigger gear range versus a regular 12speed?
    No replacement for cables but need to charge batteries.
    Huge expenses and how much time do you spend a year messing with derailleurs?

    As far as crashing, I'd say it depends on what you are doing.

    I also am not overly picky over shifter feel or anything like that. As long as it gets in gear, stays in gear and puts down power.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), 91 Schwinn High Plain (single speed "gravel" bike), Nashbar CXSS (on trainer)

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    For me, I’ll be looking at how that rainbow XX1 AXS cassette finish wears after a few months. But the shifter, derailleur, and dropper are on my list for this summer. I’d love to run a clean cockpit with just two hydraulic brake lines.

  47. #47
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    Present eTap is 50/34 and 11-32. New 12 speed will be 46/33 and 10-33. Bigger range at both ends of the cassette. Boom

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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    As far as crashing, I'd say it depends on what you are doing.

    I've crashed way more times than I'd care to admit, damaged and broken many bike and body parts but over 30 years time I have never managed to break a derailleur. Anecdotal I admit but just saying that I wouldn't be afraid of spending money on one, if I had that sort of money that is.

    I predict this thread will sound very dated 10 years from now when electronic shift systems are ubiquitous
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    Warning: Old man yelling at clouds..............

    The biggest advantage (and only one I find compelling) of electronic shifting on road bikes is how they deal with the front derailleur. Namely, trimming it as you go through the rear cassette, and also (as an option) shifting the front along with the rear to provide tighter gear ratios. Not enough of an advantage to make me even consider owning it, but I do see the upside, there.

    But that all goes out the window with 1X drivetrains.

    Perfect shifting that you never mess with during a ride................. sounds like every half-decent rear derailleur and shifter I have owned for the past two decades.

    And as far as having to replace cables.... Ever since I started running full length housing, I go several years between changing those... and that is pretty much always for some reason other than them being worn, like I am moving parts to a new frame.

    What I really have a hard time wrapping my head around is why bother with a wireless connection? What advantage does it offer over a wire when the two things that need to communicate with each other are bolted in fixed positions on the same object and only a few feet apart from each other? What is the point? Are you planning on going somewhere with the rear derailleur or shifter? Or is this so that the shifting still works after the bike is sawed in half?

    Whatever, to each there own. If it makes you smile, enjoy it. At some point the price will come down and someday we we won't have to live with the indignity of having our cables showing.



    EDIT: Never mind, I just saw the rainbow chain and cassette.... I'm in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I've crashed way more times than I'd care to admit, damaged and broken many bike and body parts but over 30 years time I have never managed to break a derailleur. Anecdotal I admit but just saying that I wouldn't be afraid of spending money on one, if I had that sort of money that is.

    I predict this thread will sound very dated 10 years from now when electronic shift systems are ubiquitous
    I have broken one by smashing it on a rock and I know one of riding buddies just had to replace an Eagle.

    I will try one when they are available for much much cheaper. I won't spend over $50-$75 on derailleur.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), 91 Schwinn High Plain (single speed "gravel" bike), Nashbar CXSS (on trainer)

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    But that all goes out the window with 1X drivetrains.

    The reports I've heard tout the ability to shift while out of the saddle and while sprinting, which admittedly you could do before but electronics apparently makes it much smoother and easier.

    My 1x drivetrain shifts great and usually feels buttery smooth but 2 hours into a race I can sometimes barely move the lever because my hands feel like blocks of wood. Current drivetrains shift great and are very reliable IME but there's always room for improvement and component manufactures always need to boost profits. Time will tell.
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOCRIGID View Post
    it shifts as many times as you click, click 11 times it shifts 11 times, perfectly, everytime!
    Kind of like like my 'non-electrical' version
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think that would be hard to determine until you used it for awhile, lots of road riders who use electronic shifting say they would never go back to cables and it seems like the benefits for mtb would be even greater.
    True, although I find it hard to see how this or Shimano's Di2 can improve on something that I only notice because my thumb applies a tiny pressure on a pod ...

    Weight and lack of adjustable ergonomics to the side this is obviously the future. Twenty years from now I won't be riding any more but everybody who will will be on electric motor assisted bike and electronic everything!

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakyWheel73 View Post
    All I know is that the 12 speed Eagle derailleur already seems more prone to being damaged out riding - either by sticks getting caught in the derailleur/wheels or smacking against rocks. It's already $110+ to replace an Eagle GX derailleur. I don't know what an AXS derailleur will cost to replace, but I doubt I'd be willing to pay the price.

    Clearly I will not be an early adopter...
    EXACTLY my feelings toward Eagle GX 12spd...I'm converting to Shimano 11spd next time I gobble up a stick and mangle another $110 derailleur.
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    Simple:
    Because I Can.

    Besides, that tie-dyed cassette and chain look sweet. Tie dyed (oil slick) is the new purple ano.
    That "Because I can" is a kind of a weak argument.

    In general, nothing to do with SRAM, a sensible approach seems to be one in which you acquire objects if they give you some advantage. Otherwise some could buy, say, solid gold side stands "because he/she can". Free country, of course, you could do that. But coming back to the current topic the fact that you can buy something has nothing to do with how much or how little it is an improvement in respect to current offerings.

  56. #56
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    I've waited 5 years for this. No more cables. And it's fuking cool. I bought eewing cranks because they're also cool. That's how the market works. I also like the idea of being able to adjust the derailleur using nothing more than the control unit. I don't want a dinner plate for a cassette, so I'll be waiting even more now for individual components to become available. Maybe I'm impractical, but I haven't waited with baited breath for just about anything this long.
    Note to self: 85% of FTP for 20 min.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K View Post
    I've waited 5 years for this. No more cables. And it's fuking cool. I bought eewing cranks because they're also cool. That's how the market works. I also like the idea of being able to adjust the derailleur using nothing more than the control unit. I don't want a dinner plate for a cassette, so I'll be waiting even more now for individual components to become available. Maybe I'm impractical, but I haven't waited with baited breath for just about anything this long.
    OK, I guess any product that makes someone THIS happy can't be so bad.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K View Post
    I've waited 5 years for this. No more cables. And it's fuking cool. I bought eewing cranks because they're also cool. That's how the market works. I also like the idea of being able to adjust the derailleur using nothing more than the control unit. I don't want a dinner plate for a cassette, so I'll be waiting even more now for individual components to become available. Maybe I'm impractical, but I haven't waited with baited breath for just about anything this long.
    after three years on both eTap and Di2, I never had to adjust the derailure front or rear. Even after I changed out the cassettes to a different range of gears. Spot on every time, even after 20,000 shifts. I know that number cause Garmin counts both and front and rear gear changes for you. The new 10-26 may be the right cassette for you. One tooth gaps from 10 to 19. Great for fast acceleration on hard pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    That "Because I can" is a kind of a weak argument.

    In general, nothing to do with SRAM, a sensible approach seems to be one in which you acquire objects if they give you some advantage. Otherwise some could buy, say, solid gold side stands "because he/she can". Free country, of course, you could do that. But coming back to the current topic the fact that you can buy something has nothing to do with how much or how little it is an improvement in respect to current offerings.
    We buy stuff all the time cause we are manipulated by ads. And their excellent at that. Super Bowl ads did not sell for 5 million USD because ads do not work. But in the end we can justify anything we do otherwise we would be irrational. And who wants to be that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    OK, I guess any product that makes someone THIS happy can't be so bad.
    All BS aside, if the group set did not sell for 2 thousand USD, most would buy the system. Eagle folks will be all over this when individual parts become available soon. Some already are. Not the derailures however.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    after three years on both eTap and Di2, I never had to adjust the derailure front or rear. Even after I changed out the cassettes to a different range of gears. Spot on every time, even after 20,000 shifts. I know that number cause Garmin counts both and front and rear gear changes for you. The new 10-26 may be the right cassette for you. One tooth gaps from 10 to 19. Great for fast acceleration on hard pack.
    Cables suck. My new build won't have one cable. Also, cool factor trumps everything. Can't get respect around here. /Dangerfield voice
    Note to self: 85% of FTP for 20 min.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K View Post
    Cables suck. My new build won't have one cable. Also, cool factor trumps everything. Can't get respect around here. /Dangerfield voice
    You going old school pedal backwards to brake style?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale-Calgary View Post
    You going old school pedal backwards to brake style?
    Hoses. All hoses. I can still do brodies without cables, man.
    Note to self: 85% of FTP for 20 min.

  64. #64
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    Wireless electronic droppers sound pretty hot.
    I brake for stinkbugs

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    Sram Eagle AXS is finally here.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Wireless electronic droppers sound pretty hot.
    You guys are making me ill :^(
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    You guys are making me ill :^(


    Don't worry, you can still get 100% analog Hite-Rite dropper springs on e-bay or at vintage swap meets
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Don't worry, you can still get 100% analog Hite-Rite dropper springs on e-bay or at vintage swap meets
    Closer to the mark than you might think.

    It would probably not surprise you to learn that I am still using the Gravity Dropper I bought in 2005.

    I was very cutting edge in 2005.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    And now you'll have to plug all your frame holes to keep water and crap out!
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    My bike computer stopped working at 0°F, but my cable XT worked perfectly.
    They say batteries last for 25 hours when new. What about 3 year old batteries? What about when 40°F or 20°F?

    XT also shifts perfectly in general, so don't really see the improvement here. And full cable housing with optislick cable is bulletproof through a lot of mud rides. Most imperfections seem to be hanger, cassette or chain issues anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    My bike computer stopped working at 0°F, but my cable XT worked perfectly.
    They say batteries last for 25 hours when new. What about 3 year old batteries? What about when 40°F or 20°F?

    XT also shifts perfectly in general, so don't really see the improvement here. And full cable housing with optislick cable is bulletproof through a lot of mud rides. Most imperfections seem to be hanger, cassette or chain issues anyway.
    Have you actually rode a bike for any substantial miles to judge for others? If you have not tried it, how can you fully understand the system? If you like it, buy it, otherwise keep riding.

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    Some of us that ride in much colder temps will wait and see and use reliable cables in the meantime. Doesn't mean never, but it's safer to wait.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    That "Because I can" is a kind of a weak argument.

    In general, nothing to do with SRAM, a sensible approach seems to be one in which you acquire objects if they give you some advantage. Otherwise some could buy, say, solid gold side stands "because he/she can". Free country, of course, you could do that. But coming back to the current topic the fact that you can buy something has nothing to do with how much or how little it is an improvement in respect to current offerings.
    It's not a weak argument. It's the perfect argument. Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction. Where is the sense in spending tens of thousands of dollars restoring a noisy, slow, ill handling car that doesn't even have A/C? What about the massive expense of climbing Mt Everest? Where's the sense there? All of your rationalizations start at a comparative base of pitting one luxury item against another, making the entire effort moot. This isn't like comparing the cost and value of foodstuffs at a grocery store, or trying to find ways to save money on your electric bill. This is you trying to tell a consumer of a luxury good that they shouldn't purchase it because you don't see the value. Do you often hang out in art galleries shooing people away from art that doesn't meet your standards? When it comes to recreation, our purchases are dictated by our desires and disposable incomes, not a spreadsheet analysis.
    . . . . . . . .

  73. #73
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    I'll take wireless shifting and droppers for sure. Wireless gearboxes, even better. The price though. As a guy who's been into RC for 40 years you can buy a much more complicated machine with far more working parts for $50.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    I suspect Eagle AXS will shift as well as XTR 12, but without the wires. Nice for eagle owners since they'll have Shimano caliber shifting without the wires, nice for xtr owners since they'll have the best mechanical group on the planet at a significantly lower price than AXS?

    If I had the bitcoin I would go with...

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    Quote Originally Posted by westernmtb View Post
    nice for xtr owners since they'll have the best mechanical group on the planet at a significantly lower price than AXS?
    Maybe, IF XTR ever gets released.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Have you actually rode a bike for any substantial miles to judge for others? If you have not tried it, how can you fully understand the system? If you like it, buy it, otherwise keep riding.
    A bike, yes since childhood in the 80's... if you mean electrically shifted bike, no. But I doubt you used AXS either. So we both are speculating.

    I don't doubt AXS (or Di2) shifts really nice and everyone who has Di2 seems to love it. For whoever wants to spend the $, it sure seems nice. It looks Di2 has much longer battery life (some months?) compared to AXS. Maybe that is why shimano stays with a wired solution? the 25 hour (or fewer to be realistic) af AXS isn't really great for a critical component. I forgot to charge my bike computer and had ran out, no biggie since i still could ride.
    but the problem of battery degradation with age and cold is real and applies to all batteries. Unless SRAM could invent a battery that Tesla, Samsung et al couldn't, this is a 3 season drivetrain.

    I'm curious to know what Di2 owners do in the cold. Not trolling, really curious. I read somewhere di2 is limited to -10°C (19°F), but not sure what % of capacity it has at -10°C and where it actually dies. So far it wasn't a problem since roadies already get long sleeves when it is 60°F and don't ride in actual cold. But an MTB groupset could realistically be used in the cold by regular riders.

    electronic shifting solves the shifter wear (or cheap shifter, like NX) problem, the cable stretch and dirt problem. With high quality full cable housings the latter isn't a big problem.
    But it seems most people who have shifting problems suffer from bend RD hangers etc. and electronic shifters don't solve that problem.

    To each their own. I'm sure those will fly off the shelves and soon they will come out with GX and NX versions that are more affordable. I'm also sure people will love them as long as they stay out of the cold.
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    Personally I don't think Eagle shifts great. And I spend considerable time adjusting iit and having it adjusted.
    If AXS more crisp, consistent, with no crunch, and never a thrown chain while shifting under power to a lower gear (fairly common wiith Eagle), i'm in.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    It's not a weak argument. It's the perfect argument. Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction. Where is the sense in spending tens of thousands of dollars restoring a noisy, slow, ill handling car that doesn't even have A/C? What about the massive expense of climbing Mt Everest? Where's the sense there? All of your rationalizations start at a comparative base of pitting one luxury item against another, making the entire effort moot. This isn't like comparing the cost and value of foodstuffs at a grocery store, or trying to find ways to save money on your electric bill. This is you trying to tell a consumer of a luxury good that they shouldn't purchase it because you don't see the value. Do you often hang out in art galleries shooing people away from art that doesn't meet your standards? When it comes to recreation, our purchases are dictated by our desires and disposable incomes, not a spreadsheet analysis.
    Well stated Sir.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOCRIGID View Post
    it shifts as many times as you click, click 11 times it shifts 11 times, perfectly, everytime!
    Except when hammering through the gears (at least for downshifting) with mechanical one long (distance, not time) push can run through 5 gears on Eagle.

    This is one area where I'm still a bit skeptical of the electronic offerings. The only way that system can go through multiple gears is based on time... how long you hold the button. In order to prevent accidental multi-shifts, it also has to have some sort of delay. So press/instance 1st shift... (some delay)... more shifts?

    I think it'd be hard to strike a good balance between avoiding accidental multi-shifts vs. effective gear-dump speediness. I'm sure that it'll be hashed out. Probably via some sort of multiple-indent button click, or pressure-level sensitivity. But for now, who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    Agreed. Only advantage I can see is bar spins.
    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post

    I guess not dealing with cables is nice but that seems to be offset by having to charge the batteries.


    Eliminating cabling is probably my biggest draw to it to be honest. But on the flip side, to get rid of both cables on my bars I'd also have to dump another $800 into a friggin seat post. That is *NOT* gonna happen.

    As for batteries, no biggie, assuming it can at least be charged via USB (either as is, or via simple adapter.) As it stands, my typical weekday ride (which goes into the night a bit) involves two lights (bar and helmet mounted), a wahoo elemnt bolt, trekz titanium headphones (the bone conduction type), and my phone. All of them happily get topped off after my rides by way of simple USB charging in my vehicle... ready to rock for the next ride. Adding one more battery to the list wouldn't kill me.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Warning: Old man yelling at clouds..............

    The biggest advantage (and only one I find compelling) of electronic shifting on road bikes is how they deal with the front derailleur. Namely, trimming it as you go through the rear cassette, and also (as an option) shifting the front along with the rear to provide tighter gear ratios. Not enough of an advantage to make me even consider owning it, but I do see the upside, there.

    But that all goes out the window with 1X drivetrains.

    Perfect shifting that you never mess with during a ride................. sounds like every half-decent rear derailleur and shifter I have owned for the past two decades.

    And as far as having to replace cables.... Ever since I started running full length housing, I go several years between changing those... and that is pretty much always for some reason other than them being worn, like I am moving parts to a new frame.

    What I really have a hard time wrapping my head around is why bother with a wireless connection? What advantage does it offer over a wire when the two things that need to communicate with each other are bolted in fixed positions on the same object and only a few feet apart from each other? What is the point? Are you planning on going somewhere with the rear derailleur or shifter? Or is this so that the shifting still works after the bike is sawed in half?

    Whatever, to each there own. If it makes you smile, enjoy it. At some point the price will come down and someday we we won't have to live with the indignity of having our cables showing.



    EDIT: Never mind, I just saw the rainbow chain and cassette.... I'm in.

    AMEN!

    (Except for the edited part where you lost me.)

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    I'm curious to know what Di2 owners do in the cold. Not trolling, really curious. I read somewhere di2 is limited to -10°C (19°F), but not sure what % of capacity it has at -10°C and where it actually dies.

    I don't usually ride that cold, but I did do a 2.5 hour ride (8 miles road, 8 miles rail trail, 9.5 miles trail) and the average temp was 21 as low as 15.

    My battery didn't change. I was at 3 bars of battery life, the ride ended with 3 bars of battery life.
    Did the same ride a week later, no change in battery. Bike was stored in the garage, average temp was 38-40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    It's not a weak argument. It's the perfect argument. Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction. Where is the sense in spending tens of thousands of dollars restoring a noisy, slow, ill handling car that doesn't even have A/C? What about the massive expense of climbing Mt Everest? Where's the sense there? All of your rationalizations start at a comparative base of pitting one luxury item against another, making the entire effort moot. This isn't like comparing the cost and value of foodstuffs at a grocery store, or trying to find ways to save money on your electric bill. This is you trying to tell a consumer of a luxury good that they shouldn't purchase it because you don't see the value. Do you often hang out in art galleries shooing people away from art that doesn't meet your standards? When it comes to recreation, our purchases are dictated by our desires and disposable incomes, not a spreadsheet analysis.

    Nice. Now I feel better about my 9 bikes and 5 guitars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Personally I don't think Eagle shifts great. And I spend considerable time adjusting iit and having it adjusted.
    If AXS more crisp, consistent, with no crunch, and never a thrown chain while shifting under power to a lower gear (fairly common wiith Eagle), i'm in.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

    Really? I'm all for the electronic shifting but I've thrown a chain while shifting to a lower gear with eagle exactly zero times in about 10,000 miles. It sounds like you don't know how to adjust a limit screw. I wouldn't classify it as "fairly common". In that regard it's no different than any other derailleur on the market in the last 30 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I don't usually ride that cold, but I did do a 2.5 hour ride (8 miles road, 8 miles rail trail, 9.5 miles trail) and the average temp was 21 as low as 15.

    My battery didn't change. I was at 3 bars of battery life, the ride ended with 3 bars of battery life.
    Did the same ride a week later, no change in battery. Bike was stored in the garage, average temp was 38-40.
    The Di2 battery is actually a pretty strong battery. Stays charged with very little lost in charge after 4 months of inactivity. I needed to have my Escalade ESV serviced because I no longer wrench in below zero temps. So I loaded up my ride in the back and drove to my Indy Tech. So I had a eight mile ride back home in minus 5 degrees F over rolling two lane. I shifted a lot of those miles. I was very cold but the Di2 acted like we were on our favorite trail in 80 degrees bliss. Got home and the battery still showed 5 bars. I know eight miles is not long but it is the most I will ever ride in those temps. It worked fine throughout the short but freezing ride.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    ... Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction...
    True, but everybody does some sort of evaluation and calculation in establishing their level of satisfaction, and that's what many of these discussion in these forums are about. Price is certainly something that can figure in. I think most people, regardless of means, get satisfaction from getting a good deal or a great value.
    What, me worry?

  87. #87
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    No AXS but have been riding eTap for 3 years along with Di2 so my experience is much more than those that never tried it. It just rocks. Cost and battery charging is the only downside. I always have two fully charged batteries on board besides the ones installed on the derailures. Never needed to use them. They are very light and hold their charge very well. If one does go dead, just put the good battery on the rear and off you go. No component is perfect but Red eTap is the closest you will get to one. I am sure AXS will be no different.

  88. #88
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    800 greenbacks for a dropper post that weighs 600+ grams.

    I think I'll stick with my planned BikeYoke Divine SL purchase instead.
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    A bike, yes since childhood in the 80's... if you mean electrically shifted bike, no. But I doubt you used AXS either. So we both are speculating.

    I don't doubt AXS (or Di2) shifts really nice and everyone who has Di2 seems to love it. For whoever wants to spend the $, it sure seems nice. It looks Di2 has much longer battery life (some months?) compared to AXS. Maybe that is why shimano stays with a wired solution? the 25 hour (or fewer to be realistic) af AXS isn't really great for a critical component. I forgot to charge my bike computer and had ran out, no biggie since i still could ride.
    but the problem of battery degradation with age and cold is real and applies to all batteries. Unless SRAM could invent a battery that Tesla, Samsung et al couldn't, this is a 3 season drivetrain.

    I'm curious to know what Di2 owners do in the cold. Not trolling, really curious. I read somewhere di2 is limited to -10°C (19°F), but not sure what % of capacity it has at -10°C and where it actually dies. So far it wasn't a problem since roadies already get long sleeves when it is 60°F and don't ride in actual cold. But an MTB groupset could realistically be used in the cold by regular riders.

    electronic shifting solves the shifter wear (or cheap shifter, like NX) problem, the cable stretch and dirt problem. With high quality full cable housings the latter isn't a big problem.
    But it seems most people who have shifting problems suffer from bend RD hangers etc. and electronic shifters don't solve that problem.

    To each their own. I'm sure those will fly off the shelves and soon they will come out with GX and NX versions that are more affordable. I'm also sure people will love them as long as they stay out of the cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    The Di2 battery is actually a pretty strong battery. Stays charged with very little lost in charge after 4 months of inactivity. I needed to have my Escalade ESV serviced because I no longer wrench in below zero temps. So I loaded up my ride in the back and drove to my Indy Tech. So I had a eight mile ride back home in minus 5 degrees F over rolling two lane. I shifted a lot of those miles. I was very cold but the Di2 acted like we were on our favorite trail in 80 degrees bliss. Got home and the battery still showed 5 bars. I know eight miles is not long but it is the most I will ever ride in those temps. It worked fine throughout the short but freezing ride.
    Di2 also goes into standby. If you don't shift for a period of time, the system goes into standby mode. Pretty much ZERO batter consumption. Since the unit it then "woken" by a physical wired button push, it can sit in a zero consumption standby.

    ANY wireless communicating system MUST maintain it's connectivity, so it will need to use battery, whether you are riding, or sitting in the garage.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Di2 also goes into standby. If you don't shift for a period of time, the system goes into standby mode. Pretty much ZERO batter consumption. Since the unit it then "woken" by a physical wired button push, it can sit in a zero consumption standby.

    ANY wireless communicating system MUST maintain it's connectivity, so it will need to use battery, whether you are riding, or sitting in the garage.
    The eTap system does go to sleep if the bike is not moving. It has a sensor in the rear derailure that detects motion. Once it detects motion, the receiver stay active waiting for a command. So if you transport your bike any distance, best to disconnect the batteries. Now the drain is very very low but no need to discharge the battery for no reason. The battery is much smaller than the Di2 but still, I never ever came close to running out of power. I use to carry two fully charged spares but I am now down to just taking one spare. This year I will be not carry any. If a 2x system like mine, you always have a spare on the other derailure to use.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Di2 also goes into standby. If you don't shift for a period of time, the system goes into standby mode. Pretty much ZERO batter consumption. Since the unit it then "woken" by a physical wired button push, it can sit in a zero consumption standby.

    ANY wireless communicating system MUST maintain it's connectivity, so it will need to use battery, whether you are riding, or sitting in the garage.
    Because Di2 is not wireless, the system is mostly dead till you call for a command. No need for Di2 to power up a wireless receiver while the bike is in motion. When you hit the shifter, you complete a circuit and the system shifts. No drain while underway except for the data it sends out to Garmin like battery level, what gear you are in or which chain ring you are in. Di2 or eTap go a very long time between charges and I know of no one who has run out of power. I am sure it happens but you must not be tuned into your bike if you let that happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    The eTap system does go to sleep if the bike is not moving. It has a sensor in the rear derailure that detects motion. Once it detects motion, the receiver stay active waiting for a command. So if you transport your bike any distance, best to disconnect the batteries. Now the drain is very very low but no need to discharge the battery for no reason. The battery is much smaller than the Di2 but still, I never ever came close to running out of power. I use to carry two fully charged spares but I am now down to just taking one spare. This year I will be not carry any. If a 2x system like mine, you always have a spare on the other derailure to use.
    Makes sense. Like my ANT cadence sensor that wakes up upon detecting revolutions.
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    I'll take wireless shifting and droppers for sure. Wireless gearboxes, even better. The price though. As a guy who's been into RC for 40 years you can buy a much more complicated machine with far more working parts for $50.
    Exactly. SRAM is the firstest with the mostest at the moment so they can enjoy the privilege of charging for well engineered but essentially nothing special technology. I'm gonna hang back and let market competition do its thing. When it's $500 for a mech and shifter, count me in!

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    800 greenbacks for a dropper post that weighs 600+ grams.

    I think I'll stick with my planned BikeYoke Divine SL purchase instead.
    Agreed. I'll take a wireless bikeyoke for $450 with no weight penalty though. Maybe in a couple years.
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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    A bike, yes since childhood in the 80's... if you mean electrically shifted bike, no. But I doubt you used AXS either. So we both are speculating.

    I don't doubt AXS (or Di2) shifts really nice and everyone who has Di2 seems to love it. For whoever wants to spend the $, it sure seems nice. It looks Di2 has much longer battery life (some months?) compared to AXS. Maybe that is why shimano stays with a wired solution? the 25 hour (or fewer to be realistic) af AXS isn't really great for a critical component. I forgot to charge my bike computer and had ran out, no biggie since i still could ride.
    but the problem of battery degradation with age and cold is real and applies to all batteries. Unless SRAM could invent a battery that Tesla, Samsung et al couldn't, this is a 3 season drivetrain.

    I'm curious to know what Di2 owners do in the cold. Not trolling, really curious. I read somewhere di2 is limited to -10°C (19°F), but not sure what % of capacity it has at -10°C and where it actually dies. So far it wasn't a problem since roadies already get long sleeves when it is 60°F and don't ride in actual cold. But an MTB groupset could realistically be used in the cold by regular riders.

    electronic shifting solves the shifter wear (or cheap shifter, like NX) problem, the cable stretch and dirt problem. With high quality full cable housings the latter isn't a big problem.
    But it seems most people who have shifting problems suffer from bend RD hangers etc. and electronic shifters don't solve that problem.

    To each their own. I'm sure those will fly off the shelves and soon they will come out with GX and NX versions that are more affordable. I'm also sure people will love them as long as they stay out of the cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    The eTap system does go to sleep if the bike is not moving. It has a sensor in the rear derailure that detects motion. Once it detects motion, the receiver stay active waiting for a command. So if you transport your bike any distance, best to disconnect the batteries. Now the drain is very very low but no need to discharge the battery for no reason. The battery is much smaller than the Di2 but still, I never ever came close to running out of power. I use to carry two fully charged spares but I am now down to just taking one spare. This year I will be not carry any. If a 2x system like mine, you always have a spare on the other derailure to use.
    Good. it does make sense that they would have some sort of sleep mode but obviously I am not familiar with that.

    As somebody else said especially with the di2, since I use the display on my mountain bikes, if you run out of battery, you are trying to do it.
    I did running experiment one time where my ultegra 6870 group was low battery power. I wanted to see how far I could go until it died completely. I only got about a half hour in, but I do believe my Garmin had indicated I was at 10%.
    I have never run out of battery on my scarp which has the XTR di2, but when it gets to one bar I charge it.
    If in some stupid way you had to ride and you were only on one bar, if you leave it on charge for 30 minutes you gain if I'm not mistaken 35 to 40% battery life. So it is a very fast charge too, if it's an emergency.

    But yeah running out of battery is like saying my tire ran out of air. If you are really not paying attention that much, then yeah you really don't need to ride di2 or etap but you need to seriously question your ability to walk and chew gum.

  96. #96
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    Here's the killer app for the AXS derailleur- hack it and reprogram the shift stops for an 11-speed or 10-speed cassette. Install an alloy or Ti lightweight cassette and drop 1/4 to 1/2 lb. off the rear wheel.

    In the future, logic could be incorporated into the derailleur programming using an ASIC that could vary derailleur movement depending on cadence to optimize shifting. Or momentarily overshift when shifting into a larger cog to optimize downshifting under load. Lots of possibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau View Post
    Except when hammering through the gears (at least for downshifting) with mechanical one long (distance, not time) push can run through 5 gears on Eagle.

    This is one area where I'm still a bit skeptical of the electronic offerings. The only way that system can go through multiple gears is based on time... how long you hold the button. In order to prevent accidental multi-shifts, it also has to have some sort of delay. So press/instance 1st shift... (some delay)... more shifts?

    I think it'd be hard to strike a good balance between avoiding accidental multi-shifts vs. effective gear-dump speediness. I'm sure that it'll be hashed out. Probably via some sort of multiple-indent button click, or pressure-level sensitivity. But for now, who knows?
    I expect this is similar to how other electronic shifters already are, you long press for a multi-gear shift. It's simple and effective. At least on my Archer setup, you can select how long the press is and how many gears to shift at once. It works quite well, I run it at a very short press for a 4 gear jump up or down. It never feels like there is a delay in how fast you can input the shifts, but you can get ahead of the derailleur. So tap for a single gear, slightly hold the tap for three. And a few long taps for the whole stack. Or as many quick taps as needed for a specific jump. It's better than a traditional shifter, although not as fast if you are really slamming through the gears. I expect AXS will prove to be faster than the Archer system.

    As to some of the battery comments, yeah it's something that occasionally needs charging. It's not a big deal. As I understand it the AXS derailleur and shifter go to sleep when the bike is still, the derailleur wakes up and looks for the shifter if it senses movement. The shifter sleeps until you push the lever, that's probably a big part of why you can go a year or two on a coin cell. On my Archer setup, the shifter sleeps if it doesn't see the servo for more than several seconds. If you wake up the servo it stays awake until it has been motionless for 15 minutes, which is adjustable. Mine requires a button push to wake back up if you let it shut down, which works fine although I suppose auto waking would be more convenient at some cost in battery life. These modern little radios pair very quickly on an encrypted link and are quite stable.

    I think this system looks to be very well thought out, and this is despite my having long been of the opinion that SRAM stuff often sucks to be blunt. I'm not going to run out and buy one but I might when it's gotten some more user feedback and is more widely available in individual components. I expect that it won't have some abilities that would be welcome but are unlikely to be provided, like being programmable for gear quantity and spacing. If they did allow that sort of flexibility I would be much more likely to buy in. I'm pretty happy running my Archer with XTR gear, I really want to try out the new Shimano cassettes more than this system.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau View Post
    This is one area where I'm still a bit skeptical of the electronic offerings. The only way that system can go through multiple gears is based on time... how long you hold the button. In order to prevent accidental multi-shifts, it also has to have some sort of delay. So press/instance 1st shift... (some delay)... more shifts?

    I think it'd be hard to strike a good balance between avoiding accidental multi-shifts vs. effective gear-dump speediness. I'm sure that it'll be hashed out. Probably via some sort of multiple-indent button click, or pressure-level sensitivity. But for now, who knows
    [/FONT]

    With Shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace Di2, one click = one shift, HOLD the button to shift until you release the button. Shift speed is adjustable.
    You can make either shifter shift either derailleur either direction, or mix and match if you so choose (So the normal right shifter upshift button instead downshifts the front derailleur, and the normal right shifter downshifts the rear derailleur, or ANY combo you may want if you're really, really really strange like that!)


    XTR and XT Di2, the shifter has two paddles, BOTH of which press forward only, and are close to each other. Both paddles have two clicks. You can program them to do whatever you want.
    For example, if you want to upshift (down the cassette) you push the one paddle. To downshift, you push the other paddle. (NOTICE I did not label the paddles)
    Paddle Y, you have a small throw to engage the Y1 (first click), but if you push through, you get Y2 click.
    Paddle X, small throw, X1 first click, push through, you get X2 click.

    You can program it so X1 either does nothing, upshifts 1 gear, downshifts 1 gear, or downshifts multiple gears, or upshifts multiple gears.
    INDEPENDANTLY, you can make X2 do nothing, upshift 1, downshift 1, or up or downshift multiple.
    You can do the same for the Y paddle.

    Now, you can adjust the speed at which the derailleur moves as well. Very Slow, Slow, Normal, Fast, Very Fast.
    You can also set a limit on gear changes per paddle shift (IF you have a shift set for multiple gears) 2, 3, or unlimited.

    In my situation, I have X1 being downshift unlimited gears, very fast. X2 Nothing. Y1 upshift unlimited gears, very fast, Y2 nothing. Then, to top it off, I have SyncroShift engaged, (which I programmed shift points that I liked based on my legs and how I like the ratios) so it will shift the front and rear at the same time based on the ratios I liked. All of this is seamless and smooth. Half the time, the only way I know it shifted the front, is because just before a front shift, the audible *beep beep* happens, and then 1/10 of a second later, the front shifts, and the rear shifts the opposite way at the exact same time. If I reach the end of my shifts, a single *beep* occurs to tell me I have no more gears (since there is no mechanical resistance feedback on the shifter like if you are the end of the cable throw)
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    Any idea if the system can be programmed for 11 speed cassettes or a Shimano cassette? Since it's electronic, I don't see why it wouldn't be able to, other than Sram wanting to sell more 12 speed cassettes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    With Shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace Di2...

    XTR and XT Di2...
    That's interesting, I didn't realize Di2 had so many options and push through 2nd lever functions.

    It sounds like SRAM went with a simpler system.

    From my experience, the simpler style works fine, but I can't say I wouldn't like to try the Shimano style. I can say that well-executed wireless has more appeal to me than more shifter setup options. I never seriously considered Di2 because it is overly complicated for what it does, even though I have never heard a complaint about the performance and I am confident I would like how it rides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Negotiator50 View Post
    Any idea if the system can be programmed for 11 speed cassettes or a Shimano cassette? Since it's electronic, I don't see why it wouldn't be able to, other than Sram wanting to sell more 12 speed cassettes.
    You answered your own question. It is very unlikely that they will ever open up the configuration to run non-Eagle cassettes natively. I wouldn't be shocked if they even shaded their tolerances away from Shimano 12sp cassette spacing, although they would never admit to it.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Really? I'm all for the electronic shifting but I've thrown a chain while shifting to a lower gear with eagle exactly zero times in about 10,000 miles. It sounds like you don't know how to adjust a limit screw. I wouldn't classify it as "fairly common". In that regard it's no different than any other derailleur on the market in the last 30 years.
    I don't! Which is why I take my bike literally monthly for an adjustment which doesn't make it much better honestly.
    Just try to be really gentle and thoughtful during shifts, but still have plenty of issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I don't! Which is why I take my bike literally monthly for an adjustment which doesn't make it much better honestly.
    Time to visit a new bike shop.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I don't! Which is why I take my bike literally monthly for an adjustment which doesn't make it much better honestly.
    Just try to be really gentle and thoughtful during shifts, but still have plenty of issues.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Ya man that ain't right... I've setup about a dozen eagles..... after the initial break in I've found the B screw will move and you'll get a little cable stretch. (Maybe after 100 miles or so). Once I readjust it, it's basically set it and forget it and I don't touch it again until I have to replace cables. Perfectly quiet, perfectly smooth. Thinking about it now I've ran eagle on 7 of my personal bikes, plus 2 for my wife.
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  105. #105
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    The first question on my mind was whether or not AXS would work with an 11 speed cassette. I found a document for retailers that states it only works with 12 speed cassettes. Hopefully there's a workaround for this. If not, there will likely be a new set of 12 speed cassettes with close ratios, which sounds like a good thing to be honest, despite the extra weight. I'd love a 10-42 12 speed, give or take a tooth on each end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBoni View Post
    Time to visit a new bike shop.
    +1

    actually he(she?) should learn to do that inc RD hanger alignment. Takes less time than dragging the bike to the LBS.
    Plenty of tutorials on that, come back if help needed.

    The only time one needs to re-adjust is after the cable broke in.
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  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K View Post
    The first question on my mind was whether or not AXS would work with an 11 speed cassette. I found a document for retailers that states it only works with 12 speed cassettes. Hopefully there's a workaround for this. If not, there will likely be a new set of 12 speed cassettes with close ratios, which sounds like a good thing to be honest, despite the extra weight. I'd love a 10-42 12 speed, give or take a tooth on each end.
    This would not surprise me at all. The electronic shifting, as a consequence of being so ridiculously precise, is that it must mate with it's designed cassette.
    I tested a Shimano Ultegra 11-32 cassette on my Scarp with the XTR Di2, instead of the XT 11-40 I had on. I wanted tighter ratios for XC racing, and since I had a 2x I still was way lower than I'd need with a 26/32!
    It worked fine except for 2 cogs 2/3 of the way down. If I trimmed it to work ok there, it didn't work properly on the lower gears. As soon as I put the 11-40 XT cassette back on, shifting has been absolutely perfect.

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    The derailleur system would have to be hacked and the programmed shift stop points would need to be redefined based on the cog spacing for the cassette you install. A PITA, but a fun project for someone who can figure out how to get into the system and reprogram it.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    It's not a weak argument. It's the perfect argument. Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction. Where is the sense in spending tens of thousands of dollars restoring a noisy, slow, ill handling car that doesn't even have A/C? What about the massive expense of climbing Mt Everest? Where's the sense there? All of your rationalizations start at a comparative base of pitting one luxury item against another, making the entire effort moot. This isn't like comparing the cost and value of foodstuffs at a grocery store, or trying to find ways to save money on your electric bill. This is you trying to tell a consumer of a luxury good that they shouldn't purchase it because you don't see the value. Do you often hang out in art galleries shooing people away from art that doesn't meet your standards? When it comes to recreation, our purchases are dictated by our desires and disposable incomes, not a spreadsheet analysis.
    If somebody is discussing the pro and con of item B vs item C and you come along and say "I'll buy C because I can" you are not making any contribution to the discussion. Which is fine, lot's of posts don't really make that much sense anyway. But you are not having a germane conversation, you are just expressing your joy at buying anything that shines and titillates you which is of course more than fine. We monkeys, and crows, like shiny objects.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    The derailleur system would have to be hacked and the programmed shift stop points would need to be redefined based on the cog spacing for the cassette you install. A PITA, but a fun project for someone who can figure out how to get into the system and reprogram it.
    This is what is so frustrating with SRAM and Shimano, they never want to allow these sort of options. I expect it would be extremely difficult to hack into this and make the shifting parameters user adjustable, even though it would be very simple for SRAM to make it so. Same thing with Shimano and Di2. The same app that is used for setting up the system now could easily incorporate settings for total number of cogs and individual spacing between cogs, and then you could have optimized shifting for any cassette you wanted to run that the derailleur could physically span. Simple for SRAM/Shimano, but a hacker would need to not only create a new app or interface for programming but figure out how to update the firmware of the components themselves to accept the changes. I don't see it ever happening, but I would love to be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    This is what is so frustrating with SRAM and Shimano, they never want to allow these sort of options. I expect it would be extremely difficult to hack into this and make the shifting parameters user adjustable, even though it would be very simple for SRAM to make it so. Same thing with Shimano and Di2. The same app that is used for setting up the system now could easily incorporate settings for total number of cogs and individual spacing between cogs, and then you could have optimized shifting for any cassette you wanted to run that the derailleur could physically span. Simple for SRAM/Shimano, but a hacker would need to not only create a new app or interface for programming but figure out how to update the firmware of the components themselves to accept the changes. I don't see it ever happening, but I would love to be wrong.
    It makes absolute sense that SRAM and Shimano make these systems proprietary; making these open systems would be a waste of their significant R&D investment. Nearly all technology companies operate the same way for good economic reason, so it’s not an evil SRAM/ Shimano thing. That said, I have no doubt the SRAM system will be hacked, and likely in short order. Not sure, however how widely distributed an alternate gear sequencing routine would be. It would surely void the warranty, so the consumer uptake of a hacked alternative would be quite slow. Interesting stuff however; options are good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    This is what is so frustrating with SRAM and Shimano, they never want to allow these sort of options. I expect it would be extremely difficult to hack into this and make the shifting parameters user adjustable, even though it would be very simple for SRAM to make it so. Same thing with Shimano and Di2. The same app that is used for setting up the system now could easily incorporate settings for total number of cogs and individual spacing between cogs, and then you could have optimized shifting for any cassette you wanted to run that the derailleur could physically span. Simple for SRAM/Shimano, but a hacker would need to not only create a new app or interface for programming but figure out how to update the firmware of the components themselves to accept the changes. I don't see it ever happening, but I would love to be wrong.
    I full agree with you with the following points.

    SRAM Red eTap has two “approved” cassettes of 11-25 and 11-32 with two cranks to choose 53/38 or 50/34. Di2 XT also has two cassettes for 2x and 3 for 1x, 11-40, 11-42 and for 1x 11-46. Two cranks to pick, 26/36 or 28/38. Now with AXS you get a choice of three cassettes, 10-26, 10-28 and 11-33 with three chain ring choices, 50/37, 48/35 and 46/33. So at least you get an additional choices. That all said, you can put anything you want on your bike that you can get to work. The display on XT will be wrong and the read outs on Garmin will indicate wrong data but....so what. If you use Syncro shift on Di2, it will be burgered up but you can fool it to shift the way you want. Now I own all the approved cassettes for eTap and Di2 XT. They work perfectly. I have experimented with a few unapproved cassettes. They work too but not with the presision of the factory stuff. Most likely the way the cassettes and chain rings are engineered. That is the way it is for now. I am not unhappy with the choices but we always want more options. Safe Travels!

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    ...That said, I have no doubt the SRAM system will be hacked, and likely in short order. ....
    Are there any hacks likes this out there for road or mtb Di2 or road eTap? Those have been out for years and I'm not aware of any, though there may be.
    What, me worry?

  114. #114
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    Sram could easily make this work for any 10-12 speed cassette. The chain might need more clearance and different jockey wheels. 10 speed chains are wider.
    I don't see many aftermarket hacks on current systems and bet that you would basically have to write the software from scratch. Sram and Shimano would also be aggressive with law suits it you tried to sell the hack.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    It makes absolute sense that SRAM and Shimano make these systems proprietary; making these open systems would be a waste of their significant R&D investment. Nearly all technology companies operate the same way for good economic reason, so it’s not an evil SRAM/ Shimano thing. That said, I have no doubt the SRAM system will be hacked, and likely in short order. Not sure, however how widely distributed an alternate gear sequencing routine would be. It would surely void the warranty, so the consumer uptake of a hacked alternative would be quite slow. Interesting stuff however; options are good.
    I don't think they are evil, it is just personally annoying that it would be so easy and yet we will never have the option. It must make sense to them on some sort of business level, they would probably sell more shifters and derailleurs if they opened it up but not enough to offset the loss of cassette and chain sales. And perhaps they don't want poorly tuned systems out there making them look bad and causing support hassles. Shimano has yet to arrive to the party, but now offers what may be a truly superior cassette that could easily work very well on a slightly reconfigured AXS system. This alone is all the motivation they need to keep it locked down. And it may very well work acceptably with the new Hyperglide+ cassettes, but it will not shift the full range without some issues that can't be tuned out. It will be interesting to see how significant they are.

    I disagree on the ease of hacking, I expect it will be difficult enough that there is unlikely anyone with the skills required who considers it important enough to tackle.

  116. #116
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    Am I understanding what I am reading in this thread to indicate that 10-26, 10-28, and 11-33 are the only mtb cassette options with this system?
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Sram could easily make this work for any 10-12 speed cassette. The chain might need more clearance and different jockey wheels. 10 speed chains are wider.
    I don't see many aftermarket hacks on current systems and bet that you would basically have to write the software from scratch. Sram and Shimano would also be aggressive with law suits it you tried to sell the hack.
    Yes, and it would probably work fine with about any cassette and an 11 speed chain. I have had no problems running chains a speed higher than the cassette in the past, sometimes it even works better.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Am I understanding what I am reading in this thread to indicate that 10-26, 10-28, and 11-33 are the only mtb cassette options with this system?
    The conversation has included some references to road eTap components, since there will be some cross-compatibility. MTB will be the same as current Eagle offerings, I expect.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Am I understanding what I am reading in this thread to indicate that 10-26, 10-28, and 11-33 are the only mtb cassette options with this system?
    Those are the road cassettes...


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    Am i correct thinking they only allow specific cassettes because the RD moves laterally AND vertically to keep the B-gap consistent (or optimized)?

    An analog RD moves sideways and once the B-screw is set (based on a gap on the largest cog) the vertical location only depends on the lateral position. For example if the largest cog is 10T, the gap will be larger compared to an 11T as the smallest cog (exxample a n 11-50 or an 10-50 cassette). The disadvantage of that is slightly imprecise shifting (due to not always perfect gap). The advantage is i can use cassettes not originally intended.

    The way the electronic RD may work may be that the RD knows which exact cog is at what position and adjusts lateral and vertical position for a pre-programmed gap. Maybe it also over-shifts slightly and shifts back into pre-programmed position. Advantage is more perfect and fast shifting. But the disadvantage is it only works well with pre-programmed cassettes and not with 3rd party cassettes.

    Maybe I'm wrong here, but that may explain why they are sticklers on using specific cassettes.
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  121. #121
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    The derailleur is specific to the cassette and must be matched together. They move in both planes at the same time.
    The shifters and derailleurs are cross compatible. So you can mix and match road and mountain bike parts anyway you want.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    ...The way the electronic RD may work may be that the RD knows which exact cog is at what position and adjusts lateral and vertical position for a pre-programmed gap. ...
    No. B gap/radial spacing works the same as mechanical. The motor only moves the RD in the same direction as the cable does on the corresponding mechanical group.
    What, me worry?

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    Am i correct thinking they only allow specific cassettes because the RD moves laterally AND vertically to keep the B-gap consistent (or optimized)?
    Nope.

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    The derailleur is specific to the cassette and must be matched together. They move in both planes at the same time.
    The shifters and derailleurs are cross compatible. So you can mix and match road and mountain bike parts anyway you want.
    You can use any shifters, but you must use the same family of derailleur.

    I have Ultegra Di2 8070 on my CX bike. But, I have XT derailleurs.
    You CANNOT mix derailleur family (mountain or road) (Ex - XTR rear, Ultegra front; or Dura Ace rear XTR front.
    I am NOT sure about running different grades of the same family (XTR rear, XT front)

    The shifters are just a button. It really doesn't care. But, the programming of the derailleurs is the issue. The data and programming is stored in the battery of a Di2 unit.

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    The way the electronic RD may work may be that the RD knows which exact cog is at what position and adjusts lateral and vertical position for a pre-programmed gap. Maybe it also over-shifts slightly and shifts back into pre-programmed position. Advantage is more perfect and fast shifting. But the disadvantage is it only works well with pre-programmed cassettes and not with 3rd party cassettes.

    Maybe I'm wrong here, but that may explain why they are sticklers on using specific cassettes.
    I believe it works much more like a regular derailleur than you would expect. The critical dimension is cog spacing, the distance between cogs. It is unique to SRAM Eagle cassettes, and electronic or cable actuated, each shift will only move the derailleur that precise distance. The B-gap takes care of itself once set correctly, with electronic or the traditional derailleur. The new Shimano 12sp cassettes use slightly different spacing so if you set it perfectly for any gear, the other gears are going to be progressively further off center. If you set it for the 5 or 6 cog, it may be that it doesn't get far enough out of alignment to be a significant issue at the end cogs. That remains to be seen, but I believe this may have already been determined on regular Eagle parts as the Shimano cassettes are trickling out there. I have seen videos of the new Shimano 12sp derailleurs shifting on an Eagle cassette. Unfortunately these combinations are unlikely to work as well as the correct cassette with matching spacing, and anything less than perfect shifting is unacceptable for a system like this.

    Changing the number of cogs is a much bigger problem because the spacing is further off and the system won't know there is a missing cog. As proven by the aftermarket systems like the Archer D1x, it is relatively easy to configure for number of cogs and precise inter-cog spacing via a well designed app. You could even run oddball combinations of cassette parts and variable spacing on an Archer setup with little trouble, so it is definitely within the capabilities of Eagle AXS and Di2 if they wanted to allow it.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K View Post
    The first question on my mind was whether or not AXS would work with an 11 speed cassette. I found a document for retailers that states it only works with 12 speed cassettes. Hopefully there's a workaround for this. If not, there will likely be a new set of 12 speed cassettes with close ratios, which sounds like a good thing to be honest, despite the extra weight. I'd love a 10-42 12 speed, give or take a tooth on each end.
    That would be what the Archer Components D1-X shifter would be good for.
    Silly bike things happening.

  127. #127
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    So I am watching the new SRAM AXS training (infomercials) through the shop training, and one thing that I haven't seen fully mentioned yet, is temperature.
    According to this video, rear derailleurs "can" reject shifts and one of the reasons that it could reject a shift is temperature, and the example they stated was -15*C which is 5*F. I'll stop riding around 0* anymore, but hope to change that as I get back into shape, but wanted to share that tidbit of info.
    Silly bike things happening.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    advantages...
    perfect shifts every time.
    Huge reduction in maintainance
    Cleans up bike with no cables running to derailures or handlebar or battery
    Yes. Yes. And yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I predict this thread will sound very dated 10 years from now when electronic shift systems are ubiquitous
    Agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kuttermax View Post
    Once the shifter and derailleur are available separately, I would anticipate they are going to fly off the shelves. There are going to be a lot of individuals who already have Eagle that will make the jump.
    Me for one. The moment this happens.

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBoni View Post
    Time to visit a new bike shop.
    I agree -- if your bike shop can't get your Eagle running perfectly then I'd try a different one.
    Mine is silent up and down the cassette, and definitely doesn't exhibit what the poster described.
    No question Eagle needs to be set up very precisely -- and I'd say far less margin for error than the many other drivetrains I've set up over the past 10 years -- but once it's dialled in it is fantastic.

  130. #130
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    In my possibly ill-informed opinion, they could sell a boatload of these things by putting in the app some basic user adjustments to the cog spacing. Then anyone could buy this for any drive train, rip out their old stuff, bolt this on, and set it for their cog spacing and cog number, and hit the trail. But what do I know?

  131. #131
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    does anybody know if there was any change to the RD to address some of those stuck chain issues that a lot of people were seeing with the mechanical eagle RD? I can't really tell by the pictures and videos online

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    In my possibly ill-informed opinion, they could sell a boatload of these things by putting in the app some basic user adjustments to the cog spacing. Then anyone could buy this for any drive train, rip out their old stuff, bolt this on, and set it for their cog spacing and cog number, and hit the trail. But what do I know?
    For real, should be no problem to make it work for 11 spd... but then you won’t need the $400 cassette, and that’s a problem for SRAM.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K View Post
    I've waited 5 years for this. No more cables. And it's fuking cool.
    This. Order is going in tomorrow, for everything for an MTB.

    Now. If they could make something that will shift a pinion box (servo/wireless shifter), they are welcome to my first(as yet un)born

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    For real, should be no problem to make it work for 11 spd... but then you won’t need the $400 cassette, and that’s a problem for SRAM.
    SRAM does make a $100 12 speed NX Eagle 11-50 cassette that fits on a normal Shimano freehub and a $200 12 speed GX eagle 10-50 cassette for XD drivers...both of which are compatible with the new AXS wireless groupset.

  135. #135
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    Do we know USD pricing for the shifter and derailleur only?

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny View Post
    Do we know USD pricing for the shifter and derailleur only?
    No and we won't for several months. Complete sets only at this time.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    No and we won't for several months. Complete sets only at this time.
    Pinkbike were suggesting in 4 weeks, once the first orders of full sets were delivered.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Howard View Post
    Pinkbike were suggesting in 4 weeks, once the first orders of full sets were delivered.
    We are still at least a month away from USA pre-order availability for the full sets. OEM will soak up the alot of the production too. 2 months for USA stores minimum. Maybe less from worldwide cyclery but still gonna be awhile while Sram milks the full sets. They will sell every one they make so they are not worried.

    My XTR prediction back in October.
    https://forums.mtbr.com/shimano/2018...l#post13847375
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    We are still at least a month away from USA pre-order availability for the full sets.
    That sucks. Mines due to arrive in 4 weeks. 😎 With the reverb the week before 😎😎 in the UK

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyking1231 View Post
    So if you have an eagle cassette already. Than its just the shifter/controller and derailluer? Doesn’t matter what crankset you have. Is this correct?

    Here is a thought. Think a sunrace 12 speed cassette would work ? It worked on my eagle drivetrain.
    I am curious about that as well. Only $100 for a 12 speed Sunrace and it fits on my Shimano driver.

    If it works with Eagle and AXS works with Eagle, the Sunrace should in theory, work with AXS.

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny View Post
    I am curious about that as well. Only $100 for a 12 speed Sunrace and it fits on my Shimano driver.

    If it works with Eagle and AXS works with Eagle, the Sunrace should in theory, work with AXS.
    Correct. if it works with mechanical Eagle, it will work with Eagle AXS. Unless 'it' is a gear cable.

  142. #142
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    So the Reverb AXS (besides the electronic part) is a new revision with a 500hr service interval. I haven’t heard anything about a new “normal” Reverb though? I know, not drivetrain related...

  143. #143
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    Question! Can you use the rear (sprint) button with the reverb, so you can have derraileur and seatpost controled by one shifter(controller)?

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycloholic View Post
    Question! Can you use the rear (sprint) button with the reverb, so you can have derraileur and seatpost controled by one shifter(controller)?
    Yes/no. As long as you use the reverb button to shift up/or down, and then the opposite on the RHS shifter. What im saying is you have to have both 'shifters' to be able to do it, you cant do it all off one, as the RHS shifter only has two buttons (but 3 contact points, all 3 are on the same rocker)

  145. #145
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    Oh! I didnt mention that are working like two buttons instead of 3 separate! You sure for that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cycloholic View Post
    Oh! I didnt mention that are working like two buttons instead of 3 separate! You sure for that?
    Yes. if you watch the video closely you can see them rocking. Also, if you could do everything from one unit, SRAM would've made a big deal of it...

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Howard View Post
    Yes. if you watch the video closely you can see them rocking. Also, if you could do everything from one unit, SRAM would've made a big deal of it...
    edit
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    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K View Post
    The first question on my mind was whether or not AXS would work with an 11 speed cassette. I found a document for retailers that states it only works with 12 speed cassettes. Hopefully there's a workaround for this. If not, there will likely be a new set of 12 speed cassettes with close ratios, which sounds like a good thing to be honest, despite the extra weight. I'd love a 10-42 12 speed, give or take a tooth on each end.
    Up to the point Shimano announced their failings. they were going to release an 11 speed cassette with the 12 speed spacing. Still need the new derailure. Now I do not know if and when that 11 cassette will ever be released.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    They are on a rocker, but are 3 separate buttons.
    You can do everything form one shifter.
    They specifically said it in the videos and right ups.
    The reviews say you can use the RHS pod to use the reverb, not control everything from one side. You'd still need to use the LHS one to shift up or down, whichever function you'd moved from the RHS. Pressing the sprint shifter down, raises the upper part of the paddle (traditionally the downshift (harder gear) lever. so if you did push it with your thumb, that rocker means it presses the sprint shifter down too (as well as raising the upshift part). 3 contact points, 2 buttons/functions.

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Howard View Post
    The reviews say you can use the RHS pod to use the reverb, not control everything from one side. You'd still need to use the LHS one to shift up or down, whichever function you'd moved from the RHS. Pressing the sprint shifter down, raises the upper part of the paddle (traditionally the downshift (harder gear) lever. so if you did push it with your thumb, that rocker means it presses the sprint shifter down too (as well as raising the upshift part). 3 contact points, 2 buttons/functions.

    Your right.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post

    Your right.
    I know

    I really want to use LHS and RHS for up and down shifts, then sprint for the reverb, but I'm worried I'll try and do it on my bikes without it (yet) and give myself a nasty surprise...

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Howard View Post
    The reviews say you can use the RHS pod to use the reverb, not control everything from one side. You'd still need to use the LHS one to shift up or down, whichever function you'd moved from the RHS. Pressing the sprint shifter down, raises the upper part of the paddle (traditionally the downshift (harder gear) lever. so if you did push it with your thumb, that rocker means it presses the sprint shifter down too (as well as raising the upshift part). 3 contact points, 2 buttons/functions.
    I see, well I understood after watching a video.

    For me, I don't need a sprint button (I'm no Nino!) but a bail out downshift gear. It looks like when you are going fast in a higher gear and slam in to a hard hitting climb and stand up, you can bump your pointer finger knuckle on the front side of the AXS shift controller, and this actually 'pushes' the top of the front toggle switch. So as long as I program the top of the back (faces rider) toggle switch to be my downshift button, I'll indeed get a downshift. I miss a few climbs here and there because I can't get in to that lower gear when I need to. Basically I was too late on the downshift cause I didn't know where I was going and I was moving fast in a high gear and couldn't get the shift done when I wasn't putting a lot of torque in to the cranks.


    Now pushing the top button for a downshift is backwards from how all shifters are now, which have the downshift lever on the bottom instead. Not sure if this change will bother me, or maybe even be helpful?


    Will the standard Type 2 Clutch in the AXS deal with oval front chainrings? Now that I think about it, maybe the oval chainring is the source of my persistent if slight, Eagle shifting problems?

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Up to the point Shimano announced their failings. they were going to release an 11 speed cassette with the 12 speed spacing. Still need the new derailure. Now I do not know if and when that 11 cassette will ever be released.
    The 11 speed, 450% range XTR using a lighter cassette and smaller and lighter medium cage derailer, combined with 2 teeth smaller front chain rotor for more anti-squat and more weight savings and a smaller chain, really seems like the ideal solution to me. Too bad it was cancelled.

    I do use the 50T on my Eagle, but most of the time I can get bike in 2nd gear anyways. It's so low you have no momentum which comes with it's own difficulties. And I only grab 11-12th on a very few road sections so don't really care about having that much top speed.

    500% range is cool but is more than I can utilize.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    ... maybe the oval chainring is the source of my persistent if slight, Eagle shifting problems?
    With the rear wheel off the ground, turn you crank and observe how much the RD cages moves as the crank rotates. It should have very little if any movement. The chain goes 1/2 way around the ring so always sees the same number of ring teeth.
    What, me worry?

  155. #155
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    Very thorough run down from GMBN here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO745V53IeU

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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Wonder how it handles multiple quick shifts in a row? I've always been a bit rough with my drivetrain, even more so thanks to 1x and the need to often rapidly move up/down the cassette, and that's my main reason for sticking with Shimano 11sp at the moment. I'm not sure I'd be happy with this set up if I can't grab a "thumbfull" of gears when I hit a steep pinch.
    You may want to start reading actual riding reviews. They’re off the charts!!! You can set up the controller to shift one gear at a time, two gears or keep shifting until you let off the controller. And reviews are saying it shifts perfectly even under load. I’ve had eTap on my road bike for over a year and it’s incredible, AXS is even better, faster and shifts better under load with zero problems. SRAM said Nino shifts 20% more with AXS. This system just changed the game exponentially. “I’m not sure I’d be happy with this set up” is laughable. No, you wouldn’t be happy...you’d be out of your skin ecstatic. Only hard part is the price. Once you have it you will NEVER..EVER...EVER even consider going back. It will transform your riding experience. Without question.

  157. #157
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    Its honestly so predictable and tireing to hear all the “wasted money” comments every time a higher end product is released. In every hobby that is about complely discretionary expenditures there is always a high end that is almost fetish like.

    Mountian biking is getting more expoensive, but it is still a pretty accessible way to enjoy the benefits of an amazing entry level product and a bleeding edge product. Try doing that with cars, motorcycles, pianos etc.

    Do you need the AXS tech to ride, nope. Is it expensive, yep. Does that mean its crap? Of course not. The fact that people are shifting more means they are able to stay in the powerband more of the time (think dual clutch tech in cars). For the pros this could be the difference between a podium finish or not. For the rest of us, it might just mean we are a little faster and enjoy perfectly timed shifts every time.

    Perhaps we are able to shift sooner out of a corner as we are able to quickly shift right after the apex? That might not be a benefit to many riders, but some people will just love that efficiency.

    But the reality is, bikes will become increasingly linked to data (shifting, pedaling, shocks) and it will make many riders much faster and for some increase the challenge. I have seen this first hand in cars. Data at the track is the difference between winning and losing. You need the talent, and you need to put in the hours, but the data gives you the math.

    For some this will be amazing, others will be horrified and won’t use it.
    There’s room for both views

  158. #158
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    Dude...you nailed it!
    You bring up a really great point...increased shifting and staying the powerband. Huge!
    A buddy of mine ran into the SRAM team in Feb in Scottsdale when they were announcing Eagle AXS and they told him Nino shifts 22% more with Eagle AXS.
    Let people whine...I mean I guess suspension forks aren’t necessary either but everybody has them.
    As soon as people try electronic shifting they’ll want it immediately and never look back.
    My Eagle AXS is on order and was supposed to be here next week but shipping for SRAM has been delayed. It’s killing me.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPenquinn View Post
    Its honestly so predictable and tireing to hear all the “wasted money” comments every time a higher end product is released. In every hobby that is about complely discretionary expenditures there is always a high end that is almost fetish like.

    Mountian biking is getting more expoensive, but it is still a pretty accessible way to enjoy the benefits of an amazing entry level product and a bleeding edge product. Try doing that with cars, motorcycles, pianos etc.

    Do you need the AXS tech to ride, nope. Is it expensive, yep. Does that mean its crap? Of course not. The fact that people are shifting more means they are able to stay in the powerband more of the time (think dual clutch tech in cars). For the pros this could be the difference between a podium finish or not. For the rest of us, it might just mean we are a little faster and enjoy perfectly timed shifts every time.

    Perhaps we are able to shift sooner out of a corner as we are able to quickly shift right after the apex? That might not be a benefit to many riders, but some people will just love that efficiency.

    But the reality is, bikes will become increasingly linked to data (shifting, pedaling, shocks) and it will make many riders much faster and for some increase the challenge. I have seen this first hand in cars. Data at the track is the difference between winning and losing. You need the talent, and you need to put in the hours, but the data gives you the math.

    For some this will be amazing, others will be horrified and won’t use it.
    There’s room for both views

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPenquinn View Post
    For the rest of us, it might just mean we are a little faster
    You make good points and i'm not trying to get into a huge argument or anything like that, but this bit I just don't understand. I see this so much, especially in the roadie world.
    For someone that is not actually racing, why is it beneficial to be faster? If you save 10 seconds because of better equipment on your local singletrack loop, do you get more out of your ride, do you have more fun, or what's the actual benefit?

  160. #160
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    It's simple for me. It's cool and I like cool stuff. Why does anyone need to judge that? SRAM develops and sells it. I decide if I buy it. Why does anyone else need to care? Should I care that you buy what you buy? Makes no sense other than people have mental issues that manifest themselves in these stupid arguments.

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  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    It's simple for me. It's cool and I like cool stuff.
    This. Mine should arrive tomorrow.

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBoni View Post
    You make good points and i'm not trying to get into a huge argument or anything like that, but this bit I just don't understand. I see this so much, especially in the roadie world.
    For someone that is not actually racing, why is it beneficial to be faster? If you save 10 seconds because of better equipment on your local singletrack loop, do you get more out of your ride, do you have more fun, or what's the actual benefit?
    The benefit of going faster is to improve your body. As I aged, pushing big gears up big grades are over for me. The closer the gears the faster I can accelerate. The faster I go, I become more fit. And the benefit of keeping the whole deal fresh is priceless.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    The benefit of going faster is to improve your body. As I aged, pushing big gears up big grades are over for me. The closer the gears the faster I can accelerate. The faster I go, I become more fit. And the benefit of keeping the whole deal fresh is priceless.
    I meant what's the benefit of going faster for "free", not because of improved fitness. If you go faster because of more expensive equipment, how does that improve your body? Or did I misunderstand you?

    I'm not judging anyone, i'm just trying to understand people better.

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBoni View Post
    For someone that is not actually racing, why is it beneficial to be faster? If you save 10 seconds because of better equipment on your local singletrack loop, do you get more out of your ride, do you have more fun, or what's the actual benefit?
    Fair question. The honest answer is it wont be for many riders. Your enjoyment level and the stopwatch don’t always agree.

    But, I think the efficiency and “feel” of it will be a major benefit for people. I think they will make the right combinations of skill, speed and shifting a few times a ride, at specific parts of the trail, and it will all just “click”. For many the feeling of it all just “clicking” might be worth it.

    I think AXS will create a more dialed in experience. All those tiny tenths of a second here and there add up to a more telepathic experience, and for some riders that has real value. For others, not so much.

    At this point AXS is a luxury item. Its bleeding edge for our sport (Though arguably still pretty low tech), and like all new enthusiast tech, there’s a law of diminishing returns. It’s nearly impossible to justify if your aren’t a pro.

    But for those that can easily spend the money, it’s available. The good news is the bike business does trickle down tech. So it will be more affordable soon.

  165. #165
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    The cost arguement always comes up when new tech is released for bicycles. It's just jealousy, plain and simple and unfortunate that they don't recognize that the trickle down effect will (and already has on their current ride) benefit them greatly as well. One of the most hilarious moments for me was in the comments section on PB after a $8k bike review, 1 grown man during an avalanche of price complaints exclaimed 'how am I ever going to buy 1 or these for each of my 3 kids? It's not fair!' with not a hint of irony. Ignore these people as they will always resent those that have more, ignoring intelligence, work ethic, delayed gratification, priorities and all the other things that made it possible.

    Any updates on AXS components being for sale as i'm ready to purchase?

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  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPenquinn View Post
    Fair question. The honest answer is it wont be for many riders. Your enjoyment level and the stopwatch don’t always agree.

    But, I think the efficiency and “feel” of it will be a major benefit for people.
    Yeah, i'd buy it for the feel, and because I like geeking out on stuff and it's interesting, it simply works better etc. I just didn't really understand the being faster part.

  167. #167
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    It’s not necessarily about just going faster. It’s about pedaling efficiency, always having a great cadence and the unbelievable ease of shifting gears. Perfect shifts. Every. Time. I know most people are going to say shifting with mechanical isn’t that hard or takes that much effort. It’s about like tapping an app on your iPhone. It’s that easy. They haven’t tried shifting with electronic. When you do you will be amazed at the ease and the minimal throw an electronic shift requires. It’s effortless. Once you try it you’ll see how much more effort mechanical takes even with new housing, cable and well lubed. The hardest part to swallow is the cost. The performance is unparalleled. Cars used to have stiff clutches and a shifter. Now they have paddle shifters and no physical clutch. It’s progress. I could go on and on. Just go try them at your LBS and see for yourself. If you can afford it, you’ll buy it immediately. Without question.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuanGrande View Post
    ...Just go try them at your LBS and see for yourself. If you can afford it, you’ll buy it immediately. Without question.
    I can certainly afford it, but won't have it on my bike. Same is true on road bikes where I have ridden both Di2 and eTap a fair amount and where with an FD it would be significantly more consequential. There's no question about the ease and perfection of shifting, it's just not what I want. If I was competitive at racing, I'd consider it.

    If I'm turning the rear wheel solely by my effort, I want to move the derailleur solely by my effort. Yeah, they're different things and will be viewed differently by different riders, but that's how I view it. And I haven't yet had to delay a ride because I'd forgotten to put my bike on the charger.
    What, me worry?

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuanGrande View Post
    It’s not necessarily about just going faster. It’s about pedaling efficiency, always having a great cadence and the unbelievable ease of shifting gears. Perfect shifts. Every. Time. I know most people are going to say shifting with mechanical isn’t that hard or takes that much effort. It’s about like tapping an app on your iPhone. It’s that easy. They haven’t tried shifting with electronic. When you do you will be amazed at the ease and the minimal throw an electronic shift requires. It’s effortless. Once you try it you’ll see how much more effort mechanical takes even with new housing, cable and well lubed. The hardest part to swallow is the cost. The performance is unparalleled. Cars used to have stiff clutches and a shifter. Now they have paddle shifters and no physical clutch. It’s progress. I could go on and on. Just go try them at your LBS and see for yourself. If you can afford it, you’ll buy it immediately. Without question.
    A slush box in a car is not progress, don't confusion them.
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  170. #170
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    Sram Eagle AXS is finally here.

    If all I cared about was smoothness and ease I ride an eBike.

    I simply do not want electronics, batteries, and a motor integrated into my bike.

    Especially not to solve a problem I do not have.

    I guess we all love the sport for our own reasons.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    If all I cared about was smoothness and ease I ride an eBike.

    I simply do not want electronics, batteries, and a motor integrated into my bike.

    Especially not to solve a problem I do not have.

    I guess we all love the sport for our own reasons.
    I can dig this perspective. Sincerely.
    Do you leave your phone home as well?

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  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    I can certainly afford it, but won't have it on my bike. Same is true on road bikes where I have ridden both Di2 and eTap a fair amount and where with an FD it would be significantly more consequential. There's no question about the ease and perfection of shifting, it's just not what I want. If I was competitive at racing, I'd consider it.

    If I'm turning the rear wheel solely by my effort, I want to move the derailleur solely by my effort. Yeah, they're different things and will be viewed differently by different riders, but that's how I view it. And I haven't yet had to delay a ride because I'd forgotten to put my bike on the charger.
    Haha that’s hilarious. I’ve been riding eTap for nearly 18 months and not once have I had to delay a ride because my battery was dead nor had it been a problem in the middle of a ride. The batteries have massive battery life and a charge typically lasts a month or more. Thanks for sharing your opinion but your battery argument was extremely weak.

    Being competitive at racing has nothing to do with it enjoying it. It’s cool tech just like a suspension fork and carbon. Lots of people drive Porsche’s that aren’t race car drivers. It’s called enjoying the fruits of your labor but by all means you stick with mechanical if that’s your thing.

    Have fun pushing those gears, replacing housing, lubing cables as well as adjusting your derailleur. All things electronic shifting NEVER need. I’m assuming you still use a rigid fork.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuanGrande View Post
    I’m assuming you still use a rigid fork.
    Rattling your brains out, getting wrist and shoulder pain is a bit different than pushing a mechanical lever.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I can dig this perspective. Sincerely.
    Do you leave your phone home as well?

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    What does that have to do with my bike?
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    A slush box in a car is not progress, don't confusion them.
    Paddle shift is not a “Slush Box”, that term started because of the torque converter style automatic transmissions, filled with fluids. They are a wholly different animal.

    Most performance oriented paddle shifted cars now use use dual clutch transmissions. These cars ARE progress, the performance numbers clearly prove that. Humans cant perform perfect shifts in milliseconds.

    Now, does that mean progress is more fun? Depends on what you are doing, in a race yes. On a back road, not always. My race car had a sequential transmission with straight cut gears. Flat shift on the way up, heel toe on the way down, the best of both worlds. That cost me 15k, so AXS seems like a bargain

    Having said that, the joy of heel towing and matching a rev with a wonderful manual transmission is in no way similar to the pedestrian act of pushing a bike shift lever. There is no art or joy in that.

    Bikes are almost “paddle shift” at the moment, why not just make them even faster at shifting and put the joy into spinning the right gear at the exact right moment you want?

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    What does that have to do with my bike?
    Can you see in the dark? How do you know how far you’ve been? Point is plenty of people who bemoan electricity (be it ebikes or electronic gears/suspension/seatposts) will happily use lights or a garmin, or a phone to enhance/enable their rides. Plus a lot of the ‘tech’ on bikes now is far more advanced than what you find on an RC car, and people lap it up, because it’s not electric, so more pure somehow.

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Howard View Post
    Can you see in the dark? How do you know how far you’ve been? Point is plenty of people who bemoan electricity (be it ebikes or electronic gears/suspension/seatposts) will happily use lights or a garmin, or a phone to enhance/enable their rides. Plus a lot of the ‘tech’ on bikes now is far more advanced than what you find on an RC car, and people lap it up, because it’s not electric, so more pure somehow.
    What is your point? What you are going on about is between you and whoever you had that argument with. Nothing to do with me.

    Who said I am anti-electricity?

    I’ve got nothing against eBikes or eShifting. If it serves a utilitarian purpose I am open to them on a utility bike (may even do an electric conversion on my commuter this summer)

    But I find them inelegant, uninteresting, and somewhat at odds with what I find compelling in the sport, which is in part leaving that stuff behind as much as possible.

    But it has nothing to do with “high tech” vs “low tech”.

    Of course I am aware that a ton of tech (and computational power) goes into the bike I ride. But the results are mechanical solutions which I find very elegant. I like working with them, understanding them, maintaining them and modifying them That’s part of why I love doing this.

    As you said, I can’t ride in the dark without a light, so I use one. Having my phone with me is good for emergencies and talking pictures, and perhaps finding my way if I don’t have a map. So I take it.

    So what?

    Just because I don’t want power assistance and computer electronics in every last nook and cranny of my life and passion does not mean I need to be Amish.

    If eShifting floats your boat, get it. No argument here.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    A slush box in a car is not progress, don't confusion them.
    Really? Don’t tell Ferrari that...they have paddle shifting in ALL of their cars and are known to have BY FAR best the best shifting system in the car business. All high end manufacturers have a similar system as do Formula 1 race cars so I guess they consider it progress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBoni View Post
    Rattling your brains out, getting wrist and shoulder pain is a bit different than pushing a mechanical lever.
    It’s all advancement and progress. You’re just picking and choosing what you’re in favor of. Racers have been using Di2 since 2009 and they use it because the top guys in the world use the best technology. Price isn’t an issue.
    Someday when you get electronic shifting you’ll see how much effort it takes to shift a mechanical shifter versus the effortlessness of an electronic shifter. You barely tap the controller and you get quick perfect shifts. Every. Time. Who wouldn’t want that?
    Stick with what you want but don’t try to convince it’s not better and an advancement.

  180. #180

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Just because I don’t want power assistance and computer electronics in every last nook and cranny of my life and passion
    Its funny, I’m pro AXS but don’t like eBikes on trails. It’s such a personal thing. For me the logic is simple, I ride bikes because they are mechanical experiences. The motor ruins that for me. i like my power multiplication to come from gears, not batteries.

    But I feel like an electric shift is not making the bike any less mechanical. Its still just a mechanical gear being pushed by my legs

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPenquinn View Post
    Its funny, I’m pro AXS but don’t like bikes on trails. It’s such a personal thing. For me the logic is simple, I ride bikes because they are mechanical experiences. The motor ruins that for me. i like my power multiplication to come from gears, not batteries.

    But I feel like an electric shift is not making the bike any less mechanical. Its still just a mechanical gear being pushed by my legs
    Sure, that is perfectly reasonable. To be fair, this is all pretty subjective. Some folks balk at eBikes, some at electronics like eShifting, some at suspension, some at gears, some at shuttling....

    I cannot give any logical reason why eShifting should rub anyone else besides me the wrong way (nor do I want it to). I have my own sense of aesthetics for my enjoyment of the sport, but we don't all do this for all the some reasons.

    I probably should have kept my "Get off my lawn!" commentary to myself.

    It is good when new toys make people happy.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  183. #183
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    So why exactly would I pay $3600 for that drive train when I can get it for $2000 elsewhere. The geometry on that frame is horribly dated.

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  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    I probably should have kept my "Get off my lawn!" commentary to myself.
    Haa!
    My post should have read eBikes, not bikes. gotta fix that.

    The great thing about bikes today is there are so many ways to do it, so we can all find our own way. No need to get off your lawn

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuanGrande View Post
    It’s all advancement and progress. You’re just picking and choosing what you’re in favor of.
    You're a bit mistaken, I have absolutely nothing against AXS and I would run it if I could afford it. The sus fork example was just a bit too much. A suspension fork was a much much bigger improvement. Again, actual physical pain vs a lever that's harder to push. Switching to a suspension fork from a rigid fork can completely change how and where you can ride your bike, while electronic shifting is just more convenient (or less convenient if you're afraid of electronics) and slightly easier to use.
    Yes it's an advancement but it's not that big of a deal as some people make it to be. The racer argument again... Yeah racers use it. So what? First of all, i'm pretty sure most of them ride whatever their sponsor puts on their bike. Their entire life is about training to be the fastest they can be and they're looking for marginal gains. But most of us on this forum are not racers i'm guessing.

    Do you take performance enhancing drugs so you're the fastest when you go out riding for fun with your buddies? You know, some racers do it after all. Do you train full time? Etc...
    Last edited by HollyBoni; 03-11-2019 at 03:04 AM.

  186. #186
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    Do you take performance enhancing drugs so you're the fastest when you go out riding for fun with your buddies?
    Caffeine? Sure, bucketfuls...

  187. #187
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    Keep it "on-topic" guys.

  188. #188
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    Anyone have an update on when we might see these in stock? Many sites sits mid-March, some say April.

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny View Post
    Anyone have an update on when we might see these in stock? Many sites sits mid-March, some say April.
    Should have mine Tuesday.

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  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Should have mine Tuesday.

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    How'd you order it?

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny View Post
    Anyone have an update on when we might see these in stock? Many sites sits mid-March, some say April.
    UK disti was saying they would ship w/c 4/3 for the reverb, w/c 11/3 for XX1 and w/c 25/3 for X01, and was showing as in stock on monday (for the stuff that should have been instock). I ordered a reverb and XX1 pretty much on release day, but nothing has arrived at the LBS yet

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny View Post
    How'd you order it?
    Probikesupply, speak to Mark. I preordered it long ago.

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  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Probikesupply, speak to Mark. I preordered it long ago.

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    Sweet, I ordered online right when it was launched. I'll follow up with the shop. Can't wait to get it set up.

    edit- Called the shop and they're shipping to me next week.

  194. #194
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    A big shiny box has just arrived at my LBS :-D

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Howard View Post
    A big shiny box has just arrived at my LBS :-D
    Nice O:
    Let us know how the AXS really is.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTrustMan View Post
    Nice O:
    Let us know how the AXS really is.
    Hopefully installing mine tonight

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  197. #197
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    Is an upgrade kit available or not yet?

  198. #198
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    At the Sedona bike festival was told the upgrade kit will not be available until sometime during the summer. Played with the model they had there. Was really sweet. Very impressed.

  199. #199
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    Is this a marketing trick?

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycloholic View Post
    Is this a marketing trick?
    huh?

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