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  1. #1
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    Sram Eagle AXS is finally here.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-w...explained.html

    Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-w...explained.html

    Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.

    I'm sure shifter/derailleur will be available soon.
    Denver, CO

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-w...explained.html

    Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.
    You can
    https://r2-bike.com/SRAM-XX1-Eagle-A...ntial-Kit-1x12

    All kits
    https://r2-bike.com/SRAM_10

  4. #4
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    Sorry, we can't ship this item to your country!

    Not in the USA.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  5. #5
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    It seems to me like Ultegra DI2 has been a lot more popular than XT. I'm not sure if that's true, just my impression. I think the same will go for etap and AXS. But Alex Nutt posted this on the MTB Tandems facebook group, and it made me stop and think about that. For a MTB tandem it's great. Especially if it has couplers.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Sorry, we can't ship this item to your country!

    Not in the USA.
    #NewWorldProblems

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    It seems to me like Ultegra DI2 has been a lot more popular than XT. I'm not sure if that's true, just my impression. I think the same will go for etap and AXS. But Alex Nutt posted this on the MTB Tandems facebook group, and it made me stop and think about that. For a MTB tandem it's great. Especially if it has couplers.
    The reason is that XT 11 speeds never got the effective ratios of sram and they have been late on 12speeds. For road use the cassette ranges and front derailuer usage do not seperate sram and shimano as much.


    The best thing about wireless is the much cleaner set-up for both dropper and shifting. The long term response will be based on reliability/durability.
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  8. #8
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    It looks great and would be fantastic on a new build. It would be nice though if they had a package that also included a Quarq PM, as having to buy that on top makes for a really expensive groupset.

    Hopefully it won't be long before the shifter and derailleur are available separately.

  9. #9
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    The price is nuts

  10. #10
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    Wonder how it handles multiple quick shifts in a row? I've always been a bit rough with my drivetrain, even more so thanks to 1x and the need to often rapidly move up/down the cassette, and that's my main reason for sticking with Shimano 11sp at the moment. I'm not sure I'd be happy with this set up if I can't grab a "thumbfull" of gears when I hit a steep pinch.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Wonder how it handles multiple quick shifts in a row? I've always been a bit rough with my drivetrain, even more so thanks to 1x and the need to often rapidly move up/down the cassette, and that's my main reason for sticking with Shimano 11sp at the moment. I'm not sure I'd be happy with this set up if I can't grab a "thumbfull" of gears when I hit a steep pinch.
    I can hammer through regular eagle as quick as my finger will work the trigger... I imagine this is no different. From what I hear from a local tester its pretty sick!
    Denver, CO

  12. #12
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    it shifts as many times as you click, click 11 times it shifts 11 times, perfectly, everytime!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale-Calgary View Post
    The price is nuts
    Finally SRAM has a shifting system to match the price of their cassettes!

  14. #14
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    Shifting threw the whole cassette or just a couple steps with 1 push is programmable.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  15. #15
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    Lol...the price for the AXS shifter, derailleur and charger is almost the same at the eTap for road bikes. You get an extra shifter and front derailleur for less!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Lol...the price for the AXS shifter, derailleur and charger is almost the same at the eTap for road bikes. You get an extra shifter and front derailleur for less!
    That's interesting, it's usually the other way around.

  17. #17
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    Okay I thought it was $1900 for just the derailleur and shifter but it's for the entire setup.

    Now I'm interested to add it to my x01.

  18. #18
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    So if you have an eagle cassette already. Than its just the shifter/controller and derailluer? Doesnt matter what crankset you have. Is this correct?

    Here is a thought. Think a sunrace 12 speed cassette would work ? It worked on my eagle drivetrain.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyking1231 View Post
    So if you have an eagle cassette already. Than its just the shifter/controller and derailluer? Doesnt matter what crankset you have. Is this correct?

    Here is a thought. Think a sunrace 12 speed cassette would work ? It worked on my eagle drivetrain.
    Yep shifter and derailleur. No experience with sunrace. Now we wait for 3 months or more for the separate parts.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  20. #20
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    Yawn

    None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care?

    Extremely expensive (expected), guaranteed to fail on the first day of your epic Moab trip (good luck finding spare parts at a LBS), etc.

    I know some people are always going to be excited about new tech, but really where's the benefit? (go ahead, tell me how it weighs 35 grams less. Then I'll remind you that it works on a battery)

    I'm holding out for the 14 speed version.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Yawn

    None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care?

    Extremely expensive (expected), guaranteed to fail on the first day of your epic Moab trip (good luck finding spare parts at a LBS), etc.

    I know some people are always going to be excited about new tech, but really where's the benefit? (go ahead, tell me how it weighs 35 grams less. Then I'll remind you that it works on a battery)
    I'm holding out for the 14 speed version.
    Simple:
    Because I Can.

    Besides, that tie-dyed cassette and chain look sweet. Tie dyed (oil slick) is the new purple ano.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Yawn

    None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care?

    Extremely expensive (expected), guaranteed to fail on the first day of your epic Moab trip (good luck finding spare parts at a LBS), etc.

    I know some people are always going to be excited about new tech, but really where's the benefit? (go ahead, tell me how it weighs 35 grams less. Then I'll remind you that it works on a battery)

    I'm holding out for the 14 speed version.
    Don't really care about the money (within reason) if it performs better. Besides after I get my discount and sell my used Eagle parts, the investment would be quite low.

    That said, i'm wondering if I would be better served by the 11 speed short derailleur XTR. A bit lighter, simpler, and my understanding is that Shimano consistently shifts better. Thoughts?

    Also, how will AXS do with my oval chainring?

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  23. #23
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    Ok, I am using eTap now for three years. No failures and never had to adjust the derailures even after swapping out the cassette for conditions. No cables or housings to replace. No adjustments during a ride to get perfect shifting every time. I am running 50/34 and 11-32. Now with a 46/33 and 10-33, I get both lower and higher gears I am now using. Improves my range at both ends of the cassette. And only one tooth jumps 10-15 and 10-17 with the 10-28. While not a game changer, it sure makes things better. And yes it can make you faster. When I am accelerating on smooth hard pack, running through the gears at one tooth jumps keeps my cadence just where I produce the most power. Lastly, spending money is just setting your priorities. Besides once spent, you quickly forget about the cash but you have one hella of a group set. After I get and install the deal, I will be giving away my old eTap including the 11-25 and 11-32 cassettes minus the blippers as I am keeping them. Will you be the lucky recipeant of my old eTap?

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    [QUOTE=alexbn921;13977416]Yep shifter and derailleur. No experience with sunrace. Now we wait for 3 months or more for the separate parts.[/QUOT

    I was told yesterday that some individual parts are available now but ALL separate parts will be available no later than April 1st. Not the Shamono situation repeated I have been assured.
    Last edited by Pedalon2018; 02-07-2019 at 09:16 AM.

  25. #25
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    Can you get us a discount too? We are deserving!

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    Once the shifter and derailleur are available separately, I would anticipate they are going to fly off the shelves. There are going to be a lot of individuals who already have Eagle that will make the jump.

  27. #27
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    Cool, but I'd be about the last to use them on my fatbikes in -20 to -40F temps. Don't want electrics hanging off the bike due to this, but for a majority of riders, I think this is a neat thing.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Yawn

    None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care?

    Extremely expensive (expected), guaranteed to fail on the first day of your epic Moab trip (good luck finding spare parts at a LBS), etc.

    I know some people are always going to be excited about new tech, but really where's the benefit? (go ahead, tell me how it weighs 35 grams less. Then I'll remind you that it works on a battery)

    I'm holding out for the 14 speed version.
    Agreed. Only advantage I can see is bar spins.

    I guess not dealing with cables is nice but that seems to be offset by having to charge the batteries.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), Nashbar CXSS (workout)

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    All I know is that the 12 speed Eagle derailleur already seems more prone to being damaged out riding - either by sticks getting caught in the derailleur/wheels or smacking against rocks. It's already $110+ to replace an Eagle GX derailleur. I don't know what an AXS derailleur will cost to replace, but I doubt I'd be willing to pay the price.

    Clearly I will not be an early adopter...

  30. #30
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    This is a lot like the carbonated vs fuel injected on cars and then motorcycles. Or switching from mouses with balls to lasers.
    Less weight is far down my list compared to perfect fast shifts that never need to be adjusted. Also the effort to shift is something you don't think about, but very apparent when you ride electronic shifting.

    Not for everyone. Cost sucks! I would not put it on a cold weather bike.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    This is a lot like the carbonated vs fuel injected on cars and then motorcycles. Or switching from mouses with balls to lasers....
    I think that came out a lot funnier than you intended.
    Do the math.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    Agreed. Only advantage I can see is bar spins.

    I guess not dealing with cables is nice but that seems to be offset by having to charge the batteries.
    advantages...
    bigger gear range smaller jumps
    no replacement ever needed for cables and housings
    perfect shifts every time.
    Huge reduction in maintainance
    Cleans up bike with no cables running to derailures or handlebar or battery
    Cons...
    mostly a one time expense, a big one however. I do not even recall what I paid for my first eTap as I forgot after a few weeks. Just numbers on paper till the number reaches zero.
    Need to charge the battery once a month. How many times do you charge your phone or GPS? More than once a month for sure.

    yep, if you crash and take out the derailure it will cost you more. Since 1966 I only damaged one derailure in all my crashes. You can crash your bike and destroy it so I believe that is not a real argument.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Cool, but I'd be about the last to use them on my fatbikes in -20 to -40F temps. Don't want electrics hanging off the bike due to this, but for a majority of riders, I think this is a neat thing.
    sir, my hat is off you you! Riding in minus any degree is off my bucket list. My cars do not even work right a 20 below as I just discovered. So yes, no electrics in very cold weather but......you will never find me riding in those temps! Never! I plowed snow at -16 dergree F on a Gator last week which was fine but not bike riding. Whimp over and. out!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-w...explained.html

    Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.
    nme

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    I'm sure shifter/derailleur will be available soon.
    I am really not so sure what a REAR electronic shifter does for you. It being Shimano or SRAM. For the few among us who still use a double, or triple, or for roadies, yes it might, might, give a bit of a smoother and reliable action to change chain ring. But for 1x? My 11 speed XTR is completely transparent: the only sign that I changed cog is the difference I feel in my legs ...

    The only place where I can see a minute advantage for electronics is with ergonomics. Give me complete flexibility for the position of a very small pod and I would be a tiny bit happier than now. This is not what SRAM is doing. The pod looks big, it hosts a battery, and quite disappointingly it does not seem to be adjustable.

    Weight is an unknown, but I doubt it is going to be lighter than a mech.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    I am really not sure what a REAR electronic shifter does for you. for the few among us who still use a double, or triple, front, yes it might give a bit of smoother and reliable actions but for 1x? My XTR is completely transparent.

    The only place where I can see a minute advantage is with ergonomics. Give me completely flexibility for the position of a very small pod and I would be a tiny bit happier than now. This is not what SRAM is doing here. The pod looks big, it hosts a batter, and distressingly does not seem to be adjustable.

    Weight is an unknown, but I doubt it is going to be lighter than a mech.
    I use four blips on my ride and this is how I shift. You can put the blips anywhere you want. Many ways to shift this system. You can use Shimano electric shifter and time trail shifters if you like. As far as pros of these systems, they have already been stated. Dont like it, dont buy it. I am first in line! On your left!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    This is a lot like the carbonated vs fuel injected on cars and then motorcycles. Or switching from mouses with balls to lasers.
    Less weight is far down my list compared to perfect fast shifts that never need to be adjusted. Also the effort to shift is something you don't think about, but very apparent when you ride electronic shifting.

    Not for everyone. Cost sucks! I would not put it on a cold weather bike.
    perfect shift every time is what these systems are about. And no or almost no maintainance ever needed to keep it shifting that way. I have been on Di2 and Red eTap for three years. Never failed me once. No adjustment done even when swapping out the cassettes. Amazing systems. I was so opposed to electrics when Di2 first came out until.....I rode one. Now Only my Fatty Farley is still cable pull. These systems are great. I will never go back to spinning barrel adjusters, wrenching on my derailures, replacing cables or housings or loss of shift quality in mud and cold. On your left!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    I am really not so sure what a REAR electronic shifter does for you.


    I think that would be hard to determine until you used it for awhile, lots of road riders who use electronic shifting say they would never go back to cables and it seems like the benefits for mtb would be even greater.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    perfect shift every time is what these systems are about. And no or almost no maintainance ever needed to keep it shifting that way. I have been on Di2 and Red eTap for three years. Never failed me once. No adjustment done even when swapping out the cassettes. Amazing systems. I was so opposed to electrics when Di2 first came out until.....I rode one. Now Only my Fatty Farley is still cable pull. These systems are great. I will never go back to spinning barrel adjusters, wrenching on my derailures, replacing cables or housings or loss of shift quality in mud and cold. On your left!
    I'm with you - 16 months of eTap on my gravel bike (7,000 miles) with zero issues. It just works. Chunky/rocky gravel, and riding in temps down to 10's F with snow, ice and grit have not impacted the flawless performance.

    I have had xx1 on my fat bike since Feb 2015. Ive ridden the hell out of it, and maintained it (sort of). However, it is getting more difficult to keep it running well. It does need a complete overhaul and new cables, but instead I will definitely upgrade the shifter, derailleur and cassette when the Eagle AXS components are available this Spring.

  40. #40
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    Having one bike XT Di2, one bike XTR Di2, and one Ultegra Di2.... electronic drivetrains are bulletproof. I have no issues with it in any weather either.
    I feel eshifting is more important on the mountain bike or cyclocross bike though. Mud and crap, or ice buildup to deal with, that the Di2 just doesn't care about.

    But, that price is absolutely ridiculous!

    I just say though, I think I'd prefer the simplicity of a single battery for the system, like on the Di2.
    I cant see....but does the SRAM stuff give you any battery indication? Di2, there is ZERO excuse to run out of battery, as the display unit constantly shows your battery life. If you don't want display, you can have a wireless transmitter that makes your cyclocomputer display the battery life.
    I would assume SRAM has something similar, but who knows.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Cool, but I'd be about the last to use them on my fatbikes in -20 to -40F temps. Don't want electrics hanging off the bike due to this, but for a majority of riders, I think this is a neat thing.
    Holy Hell, -40 degrees.

    Sometimes I ride by myself in like +48 degree weather and I imagine having a failure or crash and freezing to death overnight, even though I can usually see rooftops from the trails. Texans eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I just say though, I think I'd prefer the simplicity of a single battery for the system, like on the Di2.
    I cant see....but does the SRAM stuff give you any battery indication? Di2, there is ZERO excuse to run out of battery, as the display unit constantly shows your battery life. If you don't want display, you can have a wireless transmitter that makes your cyclocomputer display the battery life.
    I would assume SRAM has something similar, but who knows.
    Yes, there are a couple of ways. The primary method is that each derailleur, and each shifter has a small indicator that lights up each time it is activated (green is good, red is low 5-15 hours left, and flashing red is less than 5-10 hours). I just get used to checking it every few days, and have never run out. Also, the batteries are small, and I always carry a fully charged spare in my saddle bag.

    You can also pair the system to your Garmin and you will get a battery low message on the Garmin screen - I have never had the need for this.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Having one bike XT Di2, one bike XTR Di2, and one Ultegra Di2.... electronic drivetrains are bulletproof. I have no issues with it in any weather either.
    I feel eshifting is more important on the mountain bike or cyclocross bike though. Mud and crap, or ice buildup to deal with, that the Di2 just doesn't care about.

    But, that price is absolutely ridiculous!

    I just say though, I think I'd prefer the simplicity of a single battery for the system, like on the Di2.
    I cant see....but does the SRAM stuff give you any battery indication? Di2, there is ZERO excuse to run out of battery, as the display unit constantly shows your battery life. If you don't want display, you can have a wireless transmitter that makes your cyclocomputer display the battery life.
    I would assume SRAM has something similar, but who knows.
    It sounds great and I want it but I still think spending lots of money on the drivetrain isnt the best way to spend your money.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale-Calgary View Post
    It sounds great and I want it but I still think spending lots of money on the drivetrain isnt the best way to spend your money.
    I agree with you. I love both systems but if I could not afford it or make it a priority, you will be fine . After all, old heads have been using cable pulls of some type since the mid 60s. But these systems keep the whole deal fresh and fun! So I drop the cash. Sorry folks in my will.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    advantages...
    bigger gear range smaller jumps
    no replacement ever needed for cables and housings
    perfect shifts every time.
    Huge reduction in maintainance
    Cleans up bike with no cables running to derailures or handlebar or battery
    Cons...
    mostly a one time expense, a big one however. I do not even recall what I paid for my first eTap as I forgot after a few weeks. Just numbers on paper till the number reaches zero.
    Need to charge the battery once a month. How many times do you charge your phone or GPS? More than once a month for sure.

    yep, if you crash and take out the derailure it will cost you more. Since 1966 I only damaged one derailure in all my crashes. You can crash your bike and destroy it so I believe that is not a real argument.
    How is it a bigger gear range versus a regular 12speed?
    No replacement for cables but need to charge batteries.
    Huge expenses and how much time do you spend a year messing with derailleurs?

    As far as crashing, I'd say it depends on what you are doing.

    I also am not overly picky over shifter feel or anything like that. As long as it gets in gear, stays in gear and puts down power.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), Nashbar CXSS (workout)

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    For me, Ill be looking at how that rainbow XX1 AXS cassette finish wears after a few months. But the shifter, derailleur, and dropper are on my list for this summer. Id love to run a clean cockpit with just two hydraulic brake lines.

  47. #47
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    Present eTap is 50/34 and 11-32. New 12 speed will be 46/33 and 10-33. Bigger range at both ends of the cassette. Boom

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    As far as crashing, I'd say it depends on what you are doing.

    I've crashed way more times than I'd care to admit, damaged and broken many bike and body parts but over 30 years time I have never managed to break a derailleur. Anecdotal I admit but just saying that I wouldn't be afraid of spending money on one, if I had that sort of money that is.

    I predict this thread will sound very dated 10 years from now when electronic shift systems are ubiquitous
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  49. #49
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    Warning: Old man yelling at clouds..............

    The biggest advantage (and only one I find compelling) of electronic shifting on road bikes is how they deal with the front derailleur. Namely, trimming it as you go through the rear cassette, and also (as an option) shifting the front along with the rear to provide tighter gear ratios. Not enough of an advantage to make me even consider owning it, but I do see the upside, there.

    But that all goes out the window with 1X drivetrains.

    Perfect shifting that you never mess with during a ride................. sounds like every half-decent rear derailleur and shifter I have owned for the past two decades.

    And as far as having to replace cables.... Ever since I started running full length housing, I go several years between changing those... and that is pretty much always for some reason other than them being worn, like I am moving parts to a new frame.

    What I really have a hard time wrapping my head around is why bother with a wireless connection? What advantage does it offer over a wire when the two things that need to communicate with each other are bolted in fixed positions on the same object and only a few feet apart from each other? What is the point? Are you planning on going somewhere with the rear derailleur or shifter? Or is this so that the shifting still works after the bike is sawed in half?

    Whatever, to each there own. If it makes you smile, enjoy it. At some point the price will come down and someday we we won't have to live with the indignity of having our cables showing.



    EDIT: Never mind, I just saw the rainbow chain and cassette.... I'm in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I've crashed way more times than I'd care to admit, damaged and broken many bike and body parts but over 30 years time I have never managed to break a derailleur. Anecdotal I admit but just saying that I wouldn't be afraid of spending money on one, if I had that sort of money that is.

    I predict this thread will sound very dated 10 years from now when electronic shift systems are ubiquitous
    I have broken one by smashing it on a rock and I know one of riding buddies just had to replace an Eagle.

    I will try one when they are available for much much cheaper. I won't spend over $50-$75 on derailleur.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    But that all goes out the window with 1X drivetrains.

    The reports I've heard tout the ability to shift while out of the saddle and while sprinting, which admittedly you could do before but electronics apparently makes it much smoother and easier.

    My 1x drivetrain shifts great and usually feels buttery smooth but 2 hours into a race I can sometimes barely move the lever because my hands feel like blocks of wood. Current drivetrains shift great and are very reliable IME but there's always room for improvement and component manufactures always need to boost profits. Time will tell.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOCRIGID View Post
    it shifts as many times as you click, click 11 times it shifts 11 times, perfectly, everytime!
    Kind of like like my 'non-electrical' version
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think that would be hard to determine until you used it for awhile, lots of road riders who use electronic shifting say they would never go back to cables and it seems like the benefits for mtb would be even greater.
    True, although I find it hard to see how this or Shimano's Di2 can improve on something that I only notice because my thumb applies a tiny pressure on a pod ...

    Weight and lack of adjustable ergonomics to the side this is obviously the future. Twenty years from now I won't be riding any more but everybody who will will be on electric motor assisted bike and electronic everything!

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakyWheel73 View Post
    All I know is that the 12 speed Eagle derailleur already seems more prone to being damaged out riding - either by sticks getting caught in the derailleur/wheels or smacking against rocks. It's already $110+ to replace an Eagle GX derailleur. I don't know what an AXS derailleur will cost to replace, but I doubt I'd be willing to pay the price.

    Clearly I will not be an early adopter...
    EXACTLY my feelings toward Eagle GX 12spd...I'm converting to Shimano 11spd next time I gobble up a stick and mangle another $110 derailleur.
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    Simple:
    Because I Can.

    Besides, that tie-dyed cassette and chain look sweet. Tie dyed (oil slick) is the new purple ano.
    That "Because I can" is a kind of a weak argument.

    In general, nothing to do with SRAM, a sensible approach seems to be one in which you acquire objects if they give you some advantage. Otherwise some could buy, say, solid gold side stands "because he/she can". Free country, of course, you could do that. But coming back to the current topic the fact that you can buy something has nothing to do with how much or how little it is an improvement in respect to current offerings.

  56. #56
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    I've waited 5 years for this. No more cables. And it's fuking cool. I bought eewing cranks because they're also cool. That's how the market works. I also like the idea of being able to adjust the derailleur using nothing more than the control unit. I don't want a dinner plate for a cassette, so I'll be waiting even more now for individual components to become available. Maybe I'm impractical, but I haven't waited with baited breath for just about anything this long.
    Note to self: 85% of FTP for 20 min.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K View Post
    I've waited 5 years for this. No more cables. And it's fuking cool. I bought eewing cranks because they're also cool. That's how the market works. I also like the idea of being able to adjust the derailleur using nothing more than the control unit. I don't want a dinner plate for a cassette, so I'll be waiting even more now for individual components to become available. Maybe I'm impractical, but I haven't waited with baited breath for just about anything this long.
    OK, I guess any product that makes someone THIS happy can't be so bad.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K View Post
    I've waited 5 years for this. No more cables. And it's fuking cool. I bought eewing cranks because they're also cool. That's how the market works. I also like the idea of being able to adjust the derailleur using nothing more than the control unit. I don't want a dinner plate for a cassette, so I'll be waiting even more now for individual components to become available. Maybe I'm impractical, but I haven't waited with baited breath for just about anything this long.
    after three years on both eTap and Di2, I never had to adjust the derailure front or rear. Even after I changed out the cassettes to a different range of gears. Spot on every time, even after 20,000 shifts. I know that number cause Garmin counts both and front and rear gear changes for you. The new 10-26 may be the right cassette for you. One tooth gaps from 10 to 19. Great for fast acceleration on hard pack.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    That "Because I can" is a kind of a weak argument.

    In general, nothing to do with SRAM, a sensible approach seems to be one in which you acquire objects if they give you some advantage. Otherwise some could buy, say, solid gold side stands "because he/she can". Free country, of course, you could do that. But coming back to the current topic the fact that you can buy something has nothing to do with how much or how little it is an improvement in respect to current offerings.
    We buy stuff all the time cause we are manipulated by ads. And their excellent at that. Super Bowl ads did not sell for 5 million USD because ads do not work. But in the end we can justify anything we do otherwise we would be irrational. And who wants to be that?

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    OK, I guess any product that makes someone THIS happy can't be so bad.
    All BS aside, if the group set did not sell for 2 thousand USD, most would buy the system. Eagle folks will be all over this when individual parts become available soon. Some already are. Not the derailures however.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    after three years on both eTap and Di2, I never had to adjust the derailure front or rear. Even after I changed out the cassettes to a different range of gears. Spot on every time, even after 20,000 shifts. I know that number cause Garmin counts both and front and rear gear changes for you. The new 10-26 may be the right cassette for you. One tooth gaps from 10 to 19. Great for fast acceleration on hard pack.
    Cables suck. My new build won't have one cable. Also, cool factor trumps everything. Can't get respect around here. /Dangerfield voice
    Note to self: 85% of FTP for 20 min.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K View Post
    Cables suck. My new build won't have one cable. Also, cool factor trumps everything. Can't get respect around here. /Dangerfield voice
    You going old school pedal backwards to brake style?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale-Calgary View Post
    You going old school pedal backwards to brake style?
    Hoses. All hoses. I can still do brodies without cables, man.
    Note to self: 85% of FTP for 20 min.

  64. #64
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    Wireless electronic droppers sound pretty hot.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  65. #65
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    Sram Eagle AXS is finally here.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Wireless electronic droppers sound pretty hot.
    You guys are making me ill :^(
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    You guys are making me ill :^(


    Don't worry, you can still get 100% analog Hite-Rite dropper springs on e-bay or at vintage swap meets
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Don't worry, you can still get 100% analog Hite-Rite dropper springs on e-bay or at vintage swap meets
    Closer to the mark than you might think.

    It would probably not surprise you to learn that I am still using the Gravity Dropper I bought in 2005.

    I was very cutting edge in 2005.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  68. #68
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    And now you'll have to plug all your frame holes to keep water and crap out!
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    My bike computer stopped working at 0F, but my cable XT worked perfectly.
    They say batteries last for 25 hours when new. What about 3 year old batteries? What about when 40F or 20F?

    XT also shifts perfectly in general, so don't really see the improvement here. And full cable housing with optislick cable is bulletproof through a lot of mud rides. Most imperfections seem to be hanger, cassette or chain issues anyway.
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    My bike computer stopped working at 0F, but my cable XT worked perfectly.
    They say batteries last for 25 hours when new. What about 3 year old batteries? What about when 40F or 20F?

    XT also shifts perfectly in general, so don't really see the improvement here. And full cable housing with optislick cable is bulletproof through a lot of mud rides. Most imperfections seem to be hanger, cassette or chain issues anyway.
    Have you actually rode a bike for any substantial miles to judge for others? If you have not tried it, how can you fully understand the system? If you like it, buy it, otherwise keep riding.

  71. #71
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    Some of us that ride in much colder temps will wait and see and use reliable cables in the meantime. Doesn't mean never, but it's safer to wait.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    That "Because I can" is a kind of a weak argument.

    In general, nothing to do with SRAM, a sensible approach seems to be one in which you acquire objects if they give you some advantage. Otherwise some could buy, say, solid gold side stands "because he/she can". Free country, of course, you could do that. But coming back to the current topic the fact that you can buy something has nothing to do with how much or how little it is an improvement in respect to current offerings.
    It's not a weak argument. It's the perfect argument. Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction. Where is the sense in spending tens of thousands of dollars restoring a noisy, slow, ill handling car that doesn't even have A/C? What about the massive expense of climbing Mt Everest? Where's the sense there? All of your rationalizations start at a comparative base of pitting one luxury item against another, making the entire effort moot. This isn't like comparing the cost and value of foodstuffs at a grocery store, or trying to find ways to save money on your electric bill. This is you trying to tell a consumer of a luxury good that they shouldn't purchase it because you don't see the value. Do you often hang out in art galleries shooing people away from art that doesn't meet your standards? When it comes to recreation, our purchases are dictated by our desires and disposable incomes, not a spreadsheet analysis.
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  73. #73
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    I'll take wireless shifting and droppers for sure. Wireless gearboxes, even better. The price though. As a guy who's been into RC for 40 years you can buy a much more complicated machine with far more working parts for $50.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  74. #74
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    I suspect Eagle AXS will shift as well as XTR 12, but without the wires. Nice for eagle owners since they'll have Shimano caliber shifting without the wires, nice for xtr owners since they'll have the best mechanical group on the planet at a significantly lower price than AXS?

    If I had the bitcoin I would go with...

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by westernmtb View Post
    nice for xtr owners since they'll have the best mechanical group on the planet at a significantly lower price than AXS?
    Maybe, IF XTR ever gets released.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Have you actually rode a bike for any substantial miles to judge for others? If you have not tried it, how can you fully understand the system? If you like it, buy it, otherwise keep riding.
    A bike, yes since childhood in the 80's... if you mean electrically shifted bike, no. But I doubt you used AXS either. So we both are speculating.

    I don't doubt AXS (or Di2) shifts really nice and everyone who has Di2 seems to love it. For whoever wants to spend the $, it sure seems nice. It looks Di2 has much longer battery life (some months?) compared to AXS. Maybe that is why shimano stays with a wired solution? the 25 hour (or fewer to be realistic) af AXS isn't really great for a critical component. I forgot to charge my bike computer and had ran out, no biggie since i still could ride.
    but the problem of battery degradation with age and cold is real and applies to all batteries. Unless SRAM could invent a battery that Tesla, Samsung et al couldn't, this is a 3 season drivetrain.

    I'm curious to know what Di2 owners do in the cold. Not trolling, really curious. I read somewhere di2 is limited to -10C (19F), but not sure what % of capacity it has at -10C and where it actually dies. So far it wasn't a problem since roadies already get long sleeves when it is 60F and don't ride in actual cold. But an MTB groupset could realistically be used in the cold by regular riders.

    electronic shifting solves the shifter wear (or cheap shifter, like NX) problem, the cable stretch and dirt problem. With high quality full cable housings the latter isn't a big problem.
    But it seems most people who have shifting problems suffer from bend RD hangers etc. and electronic shifters don't solve that problem.

    To each their own. I'm sure those will fly off the shelves and soon they will come out with GX and NX versions that are more affordable. I'm also sure people will love them as long as they stay out of the cold.
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    Personally I don't think Eagle shifts great. And I spend considerable time adjusting iit and having it adjusted.
    If AXS more crisp, consistent, with no crunch, and never a thrown chain while shifting under power to a lower gear (fairly common wiith Eagle), i'm in.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    It's not a weak argument. It's the perfect argument. Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction. Where is the sense in spending tens of thousands of dollars restoring a noisy, slow, ill handling car that doesn't even have A/C? What about the massive expense of climbing Mt Everest? Where's the sense there? All of your rationalizations start at a comparative base of pitting one luxury item against another, making the entire effort moot. This isn't like comparing the cost and value of foodstuffs at a grocery store, or trying to find ways to save money on your electric bill. This is you trying to tell a consumer of a luxury good that they shouldn't purchase it because you don't see the value. Do you often hang out in art galleries shooing people away from art that doesn't meet your standards? When it comes to recreation, our purchases are dictated by our desires and disposable incomes, not a spreadsheet analysis.
    Well stated Sir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOCRIGID View Post
    it shifts as many times as you click, click 11 times it shifts 11 times, perfectly, everytime!
    Except when hammering through the gears (at least for downshifting) with mechanical one long (distance, not time) push can run through 5 gears on Eagle.

    This is one area where I'm still a bit skeptical of the electronic offerings. The only way that system can go through multiple gears is based on time... how long you hold the button. In order to prevent accidental multi-shifts, it also has to have some sort of delay. So press/instance 1st shift... (some delay)... more shifts?

    I think it'd be hard to strike a good balance between avoiding accidental multi-shifts vs. effective gear-dump speediness. I'm sure that it'll be hashed out. Probably via some sort of multiple-indent button click, or pressure-level sensitivity. But for now, who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    Agreed. Only advantage I can see is bar spins.
    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post

    I guess not dealing with cables is nice but that seems to be offset by having to charge the batteries.


    Eliminating cabling is probably my biggest draw to it to be honest. But on the flip side, to get rid of both cables on my bars I'd also have to dump another $800 into a friggin seat post. That is *NOT* gonna happen.

    As for batteries, no biggie, assuming it can at least be charged via USB (either as is, or via simple adapter.) As it stands, my typical weekday ride (which goes into the night a bit) involves two lights (bar and helmet mounted), a wahoo elemnt bolt, trekz titanium headphones (the bone conduction type), and my phone. All of them happily get topped off after my rides by way of simple USB charging in my vehicle... ready to rock for the next ride. Adding one more battery to the list wouldn't kill me.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Warning: Old man yelling at clouds..............

    The biggest advantage (and only one I find compelling) of electronic shifting on road bikes is how they deal with the front derailleur. Namely, trimming it as you go through the rear cassette, and also (as an option) shifting the front along with the rear to provide tighter gear ratios. Not enough of an advantage to make me even consider owning it, but I do see the upside, there.

    But that all goes out the window with 1X drivetrains.

    Perfect shifting that you never mess with during a ride................. sounds like every half-decent rear derailleur and shifter I have owned for the past two decades.

    And as far as having to replace cables.... Ever since I started running full length housing, I go several years between changing those... and that is pretty much always for some reason other than them being worn, like I am moving parts to a new frame.

    What I really have a hard time wrapping my head around is why bother with a wireless connection? What advantage does it offer over a wire when the two things that need to communicate with each other are bolted in fixed positions on the same object and only a few feet apart from each other? What is the point? Are you planning on going somewhere with the rear derailleur or shifter? Or is this so that the shifting still works after the bike is sawed in half?

    Whatever, to each there own. If it makes you smile, enjoy it. At some point the price will come down and someday we we won't have to live with the indignity of having our cables showing.



    EDIT: Never mind, I just saw the rainbow chain and cassette.... I'm in.

    AMEN!

    (Except for the edited part where you lost me.)

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    I'm curious to know what Di2 owners do in the cold. Not trolling, really curious. I read somewhere di2 is limited to -10C (19F), but not sure what % of capacity it has at -10C and where it actually dies.

    I don't usually ride that cold, but I did do a 2.5 hour ride (8 miles road, 8 miles rail trail, 9.5 miles trail) and the average temp was 21 as low as 15.

    My battery didn't change. I was at 3 bars of battery life, the ride ended with 3 bars of battery life.
    Did the same ride a week later, no change in battery. Bike was stored in the garage, average temp was 38-40.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    It's not a weak argument. It's the perfect argument. Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction. Where is the sense in spending tens of thousands of dollars restoring a noisy, slow, ill handling car that doesn't even have A/C? What about the massive expense of climbing Mt Everest? Where's the sense there? All of your rationalizations start at a comparative base of pitting one luxury item against another, making the entire effort moot. This isn't like comparing the cost and value of foodstuffs at a grocery store, or trying to find ways to save money on your electric bill. This is you trying to tell a consumer of a luxury good that they shouldn't purchase it because you don't see the value. Do you often hang out in art galleries shooing people away from art that doesn't meet your standards? When it comes to recreation, our purchases are dictated by our desires and disposable incomes, not a spreadsheet analysis.

    Nice. Now I feel better about my 9 bikes and 5 guitars.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Personally I don't think Eagle shifts great. And I spend considerable time adjusting iit and having it adjusted.
    If AXS more crisp, consistent, with no crunch, and never a thrown chain while shifting under power to a lower gear (fairly common wiith Eagle), i'm in.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

    Really? I'm all for the electronic shifting but I've thrown a chain while shifting to a lower gear with eagle exactly zero times in about 10,000 miles. It sounds like you don't know how to adjust a limit screw. I wouldn't classify it as "fairly common". In that regard it's no different than any other derailleur on the market in the last 30 years.
    Denver, CO

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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I don't usually ride that cold, but I did do a 2.5 hour ride (8 miles road, 8 miles rail trail, 9.5 miles trail) and the average temp was 21 as low as 15.

    My battery didn't change. I was at 3 bars of battery life, the ride ended with 3 bars of battery life.
    Did the same ride a week later, no change in battery. Bike was stored in the garage, average temp was 38-40.
    The Di2 battery is actually a pretty strong battery. Stays charged with very little lost in charge after 4 months of inactivity. I needed to have my Escalade ESV serviced because I no longer wrench in below zero temps. So I loaded up my ride in the back and drove to my Indy Tech. So I had a eight mile ride back home in minus 5 degrees F over rolling two lane. I shifted a lot of those miles. I was very cold but the Di2 acted like we were on our favorite trail in 80 degrees bliss. Got home and the battery still showed 5 bars. I know eight miles is not long but it is the most I will ever ride in those temps. It worked fine throughout the short but freezing ride.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    ... Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction...
    True, but everybody does some sort of evaluation and calculation in establishing their level of satisfaction, and that's what many of these discussion in these forums are about. Price is certainly something that can figure in. I think most people, regardless of means, get satisfaction from getting a good deal or a great value.
    Do the math.

  87. #87
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    No AXS but have been riding eTap for 3 years along with Di2 so my experience is much more than those that never tried it. It just rocks. Cost and battery charging is the only downside. I always have two fully charged batteries on board besides the ones installed on the derailures. Never needed to use them. They are very light and hold their charge very well. If one does go dead, just put the good battery on the rear and off you go. No component is perfect but Red eTap is the closest you will get to one. I am sure AXS will be no different.

  88. #88
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    800 greenbacks for a dropper post that weighs 600+ grams.

    I think I'll stick with my planned BikeYoke Divine SL purchase instead.
    Death from Below.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    A bike, yes since childhood in the 80's... if you mean electrically shifted bike, no. But I doubt you used AXS either. So we both are speculating.

    I don't doubt AXS (or Di2) shifts really nice and everyone who has Di2 seems to love it. For whoever wants to spend the $, it sure seems nice. It looks Di2 has much longer battery life (some months?) compared to AXS. Maybe that is why shimano stays with a wired solution? the 25 hour (or fewer to be realistic) af AXS isn't really great for a critical component. I forgot to charge my bike computer and had ran out, no biggie since i still could ride.
    but the problem of battery degradation with age and cold is real and applies to all batteries. Unless SRAM could invent a battery that Tesla, Samsung et al couldn't, this is a 3 season drivetrain.

    I'm curious to know what Di2 owners do in the cold. Not trolling, really curious. I read somewhere di2 is limited to -10C (19F), but not sure what % of capacity it has at -10C and where it actually dies. So far it wasn't a problem since roadies already get long sleeves when it is 60F and don't ride in actual cold. But an MTB groupset could realistically be used in the cold by regular riders.

    electronic shifting solves the shifter wear (or cheap shifter, like NX) problem, the cable stretch and dirt problem. With high quality full cable housings the latter isn't a big problem.
    But it seems most people who have shifting problems suffer from bend RD hangers etc. and electronic shifters don't solve that problem.

    To each their own. I'm sure those will fly off the shelves and soon they will come out with GX and NX versions that are more affordable. I'm also sure people will love them as long as they stay out of the cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    The Di2 battery is actually a pretty strong battery. Stays charged with very little lost in charge after 4 months of inactivity. I needed to have my Escalade ESV serviced because I no longer wrench in below zero temps. So I loaded up my ride in the back and drove to my Indy Tech. So I had a eight mile ride back home in minus 5 degrees F over rolling two lane. I shifted a lot of those miles. I was very cold but the Di2 acted like we were on our favorite trail in 80 degrees bliss. Got home and the battery still showed 5 bars. I know eight miles is not long but it is the most I will ever ride in those temps. It worked fine throughout the short but freezing ride.
    Di2 also goes into standby. If you don't shift for a period of time, the system goes into standby mode. Pretty much ZERO batter consumption. Since the unit it then "woken" by a physical wired button push, it can sit in a zero consumption standby.

    ANY wireless communicating system MUST maintain it's connectivity, so it will need to use battery, whether you are riding, or sitting in the garage.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Di2 also goes into standby. If you don't shift for a period of time, the system goes into standby mode. Pretty much ZERO batter consumption. Since the unit it then "woken" by a physical wired button push, it can sit in a zero consumption standby.

    ANY wireless communicating system MUST maintain it's connectivity, so it will need to use battery, whether you are riding, or sitting in the garage.
    The eTap system does go to sleep if the bike is not moving. It has a sensor in the rear derailure that detects motion. Once it detects motion, the receiver stay active waiting for a command. So if you transport your bike any distance, best to disconnect the batteries. Now the drain is very very low but no need to discharge the battery for no reason. The battery is much smaller than the Di2 but still, I never ever came close to running out of power. I use to carry two fully charged spares but I am now down to just taking one spare. This year I will be not carry any. If a 2x system like mine, you always have a spare on the other derailure to use.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Di2 also goes into standby. If you don't shift for a period of time, the system goes into standby mode. Pretty much ZERO batter consumption. Since the unit it then "woken" by a physical wired button push, it can sit in a zero consumption standby.

    ANY wireless communicating system MUST maintain it's connectivity, so it will need to use battery, whether you are riding, or sitting in the garage.
    Because Di2 is not wireless, the system is mostly dead till you call for a command. No need for Di2 to power up a wireless receiver while the bike is in motion. When you hit the shifter, you complete a circuit and the system shifts. No drain while underway except for the data it sends out to Garmin like battery level, what gear you are in or which chain ring you are in. Di2 or eTap go a very long time between charges and I know of no one who has run out of power. I am sure it happens but you must not be tuned into your bike if you let that happen.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    The eTap system does go to sleep if the bike is not moving. It has a sensor in the rear derailure that detects motion. Once it detects motion, the receiver stay active waiting for a command. So if you transport your bike any distance, best to disconnect the batteries. Now the drain is very very low but no need to discharge the battery for no reason. The battery is much smaller than the Di2 but still, I never ever came close to running out of power. I use to carry two fully charged spares but I am now down to just taking one spare. This year I will be not carry any. If a 2x system like mine, you always have a spare on the other derailure to use.
    Makes sense. Like my ANT cadence sensor that wakes up upon detecting revolutions.
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    I'll take wireless shifting and droppers for sure. Wireless gearboxes, even better. The price though. As a guy who's been into RC for 40 years you can buy a much more complicated machine with far more working parts for $50.
    Exactly. SRAM is the firstest with the mostest at the moment so they can enjoy the privilege of charging for well engineered but essentially nothing special technology. I'm gonna hang back and let market competition do its thing. When it's $500 for a mech and shifter, count me in!

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    800 greenbacks for a dropper post that weighs 600+ grams.

    I think I'll stick with my planned BikeYoke Divine SL purchase instead.
    Agreed. I'll take a wireless bikeyoke for $450 with no weight penalty though. Maybe in a couple years.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    A bike, yes since childhood in the 80's... if you mean electrically shifted bike, no. But I doubt you used AXS either. So we both are speculating.

    I don't doubt AXS (or Di2) shifts really nice and everyone who has Di2 seems to love it. For whoever wants to spend the $, it sure seems nice. It looks Di2 has much longer battery life (some months?) compared to AXS. Maybe that is why shimano stays with a wired solution? the 25 hour (or fewer to be realistic) af AXS isn't really great for a critical component. I forgot to charge my bike computer and had ran out, no biggie since i still could ride.
    but the problem of battery degradation with age and cold is real and applies to all batteries. Unless SRAM could invent a battery that Tesla, Samsung et al couldn't, this is a 3 season drivetrain.

    I'm curious to know what Di2 owners do in the cold. Not trolling, really curious. I read somewhere di2 is limited to -10C (19F), but not sure what % of capacity it has at -10C and where it actually dies. So far it wasn't a problem since roadies already get long sleeves when it is 60F and don't ride in actual cold. But an MTB groupset could realistically be used in the cold by regular riders.

    electronic shifting solves the shifter wear (or cheap shifter, like NX) problem, the cable stretch and dirt problem. With high quality full cable housings the latter isn't a big problem.
    But it seems most people who have shifting problems suffer from bend RD hangers etc. and electronic shifters don't solve that problem.

    To each their own. I'm sure those will fly off the shelves and soon they will come out with GX and NX versions that are more affordable. I'm also sure people will love them as long as they stay out of the cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    The eTap system does go to sleep if the bike is not moving. It has a sensor in the rear derailure that detects motion. Once it detects motion, the receiver stay active waiting for a command. So if you transport your bike any distance, best to disconnect the batteries. Now the drain is very very low but no need to discharge the battery for no reason. The battery is much smaller than the Di2 but still, I never ever came close to running out of power. I use to carry two fully charged spares but I am now down to just taking one spare. This year I will be not carry any. If a 2x system like mine, you always have a spare on the other derailure to use.
    Good. it does make sense that they would have some sort of sleep mode but obviously I am not familiar with that.

    As somebody else said especially with the di2, since I use the display on my mountain bikes, if you run out of battery, you are trying to do it.
    I did running experiment one time where my ultegra 6870 group was low battery power. I wanted to see how far I could go until it died completely. I only got about a half hour in, but I do believe my Garmin had indicated I was at 10%.
    I have never run out of battery on my scarp which has the XTR di2, but when it gets to one bar I charge it.
    If in some stupid way you had to ride and you were only on one bar, if you leave it on charge for 30 minutes you gain if I'm not mistaken 35 to 40% battery life. So it is a very fast charge too, if it's an emergency.

    But yeah running out of battery is like saying my tire ran out of air. If you are really not paying attention that much, then yeah you really don't need to ride di2 or etap but you need to seriously question your ability to walk and chew gum.

  96. #96
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    Here's the killer app for the AXS derailleur- hack it and reprogram the shift stops for an 11-speed or 10-speed cassette. Install an alloy or Ti lightweight cassette and drop 1/4 to 1/2 lb. off the rear wheel.

    In the future, logic could be incorporated into the derailleur programming using an ASIC that could vary derailleur movement depending on cadence to optimize shifting. Or momentarily overshift when shifting into a larger cog to optimize downshifting under load. Lots of possibilities.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau View Post
    Except when hammering through the gears (at least for downshifting) with mechanical one long (distance, not time) push can run through 5 gears on Eagle.

    This is one area where I'm still a bit skeptical of the electronic offerings. The only way that system can go through multiple gears is based on time... how long you hold the button. In order to prevent accidental multi-shifts, it also has to have some sort of delay. So press/instance 1st shift... (some delay)... more shifts?

    I think it'd be hard to strike a good balance between avoiding accidental multi-shifts vs. effective gear-dump speediness. I'm sure that it'll be hashed out. Probably via some sort of multiple-indent button click, or pressure-level sensitivity. But for now, who knows?
    I expect this is similar to how other electronic shifters already are, you long press for a multi-gear shift. It's simple and effective. At least on my Archer setup, you can select how long the press is and how many gears to shift at once. It works quite well, I run it at a very short press for a 4 gear jump up or down. It never feels like there is a delay in how fast you can input the shifts, but you can get ahead of the derailleur. So tap for a single gear, slightly hold the tap for three. And a few long taps for the whole stack. Or as many quick taps as needed for a specific jump. It's better than a traditional shifter, although not as fast if you are really slamming through the gears. I expect AXS will prove to be faster than the Archer system.

    As to some of the battery comments, yeah it's something that occasionally needs charging. It's not a big deal. As I understand it the AXS derailleur and shifter go to sleep when the bike is still, the derailleur wakes up and looks for the shifter if it senses movement. The shifter sleeps until you push the lever, that's probably a big part of why you can go a year or two on a coin cell. On my Archer setup, the shifter sleeps if it doesn't see the servo for more than several seconds. If you wake up the servo it stays awake until it has been motionless for 15 minutes, which is adjustable. Mine requires a button push to wake back up if you let it shut down, which works fine although I suppose auto waking would be more convenient at some cost in battery life. These modern little radios pair very quickly on an encrypted link and are quite stable.

    I think this system looks to be very well thought out, and this is despite my having long been of the opinion that SRAM stuff often sucks to be blunt. I'm not going to run out and buy one but I might when it's gotten some more user feedback and is more widely available in individual components. I expect that it won't have some abilities that would be welcome but are unlikely to be provided, like being programmable for gear quantity and spacing. If they did allow that sort of flexibility I would be much more likely to buy in. I'm pretty happy running my Archer with XTR gear, I really want to try out the new Shimano cassettes more than this system.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau View Post
    This is one area where I'm still a bit skeptical of the electronic offerings. The only way that system can go through multiple gears is based on time... how long you hold the button. In order to prevent accidental multi-shifts, it also has to have some sort of delay. So press/instance 1st shift... (some delay)... more shifts?

    I think it'd be hard to strike a good balance between avoiding accidental multi-shifts vs. effective gear-dump speediness. I'm sure that it'll be hashed out. Probably via some sort of multiple-indent button click, or pressure-level sensitivity. But for now, who knows
    [/FONT]

    With Shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace Di2, one click = one shift, HOLD the button to shift until you release the button. Shift speed is adjustable.
    You can make either shifter shift either derailleur either direction, or mix and match if you so choose (So the normal right shifter upshift button instead downshifts the front derailleur, and the normal right shifter downshifts the rear derailleur, or ANY combo you may want if you're really, really really strange like that!)


    XTR and XT Di2, the shifter has two paddles, BOTH of which press forward only, and are close to each other. Both paddles have two clicks. You can program them to do whatever you want.
    For example, if you want to upshift (down the cassette) you push the one paddle. To downshift, you push the other paddle. (NOTICE I did not label the paddles)
    Paddle Y, you have a small throw to engage the Y1 (first click), but if you push through, you get Y2 click.
    Paddle X, small throw, X1 first click, push through, you get X2 click.

    You can program it so X1 either does nothing, upshifts 1 gear, downshifts 1 gear, or downshifts multiple gears, or upshifts multiple gears.
    INDEPENDANTLY, you can make X2 do nothing, upshift 1, downshift 1, or up or downshift multiple.
    You can do the same for the Y paddle.

    Now, you can adjust the speed at which the derailleur moves as well. Very Slow, Slow, Normal, Fast, Very Fast.
    You can also set a limit on gear changes per paddle shift (IF you have a shift set for multiple gears) 2, 3, or unlimited.

    In my situation, I have X1 being downshift unlimited gears, very fast. X2 Nothing. Y1 upshift unlimited gears, very fast, Y2 nothing. Then, to top it off, I have SyncroShift engaged, (which I programmed shift points that I liked based on my legs and how I like the ratios) so it will shift the front and rear at the same time based on the ratios I liked. All of this is seamless and smooth. Half the time, the only way I know it shifted the front, is because just before a front shift, the audible *beep beep* happens, and then 1/10 of a second later, the front shifts, and the rear shifts the opposite way at the exact same time. If I reach the end of my shifts, a single *beep* occurs to tell me I have no more gears (since there is no mechanical resistance feedback on the shifter like if you are the end of the cable throw)
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    Any idea if the system can be programmed for 11 speed cassettes or a Shimano cassette? Since it's electronic, I don't see why it wouldn't be able to, other than Sram wanting to sell more 12 speed cassettes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    With Shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace Di2...

    XTR and XT Di2...
    That's interesting, I didn't realize Di2 had so many options and push through 2nd lever functions.

    It sounds like SRAM went with a simpler system.

    From my experience, the simpler style works fine, but I can't say I wouldn't like to try the Shimano style. I can say that well-executed wireless has more appeal to me than more shifter setup options. I never seriously considered Di2 because it is overly complicated for what it does, even though I have never heard a complaint about the performance and I am confident I would like how it rides.

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