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Thread: Sram Eagle 1x12

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    Sram Eagle 1x12

    Hi guys,
    There is not much out yet, but 24/3/2017 should be reveild new 12 speed groupset from sram. It should be based od current X01 groupset with codename Eagle.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Sram Eagle 1x12-image.jpg  

    Sram Eagle 1x12-image.jpg  

    Last edited by marekvag; 02-03-2016 at 12:37 PM.

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    This post have been put up and taken down a number of times now.... Countdown... 3...2...1...
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    retro grouch cynics drive me nuts but even for a fanboy for all new innovations 12 speeds is a bit much.

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    I'll prob end up getting it with e13s 9-52 cassette
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    Great idea, after all chainline ans wear hasn't been an issue at all. Trudge forward ignore current issue. Someone in the boardroom watched SpinalTap one two many times stoned and confused 11 with 12.
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    Holy crap. A bike parts manufacturer, making an incremental improvement over an existing product. I am shocked. SHOCKED.

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    2017 or 2016?

    Quote Originally Posted by marekvag View Post
    Hi guys,
    There is not much out yet, but 24/3/2017 should be reveild new 12 speed groupset from sram. It should be based od current X01 groupset with codename Eagle.
    So why does your title and text state 2017, when your attachments show 2016?

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    If this exists, it will be used under a couple of dudes down in Rio well, well before then.

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    Lol...or it could be on the new post Boost standard hubs. Not sure if there is enough room for 12 cogs on the current hub bodies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Lol...or it could be on the new post Boost standard hubs. Not sure if there is enough room for 12 cogs on the current hub bodies?
    I don't see how there can be enough room for a 12 speed.
    Unless they make the chain thinner ?
    I just changed my XX1 chain at 210 miles it was at 75% if they make the chain thinner I don't think they will last long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    Holy crap. A bike parts manufacturer, making an incremental improvement over an existing product. I am shocked. SHOCKED.
    Right, maybe they should get what they have out ironed out - that would be an improvement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junersun View Post
    I'll prob end up getting it with e13s 9-52 cassette
    Approved for insight.

    Few things:

    If the cassette followed the normal progression the largest cog should be 48T, not 50. You can see in the pic (or maybe not) that the last step is bigger than the others. At least the extra gear is used for more range. The big mistake made with 10 speed was not increasing the range.

    The extra range, when combined with chainrings larger than might otherwise be used, will affect FS behavior. Will be fine on high-AS designs but can be a problem for others.

    More range is usually better, but once you get around 500% you are covering just about everyone.

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    Will this fit existing hubs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    Will this fit existing hubs?
    Lol. The new standard is called Burst 158.

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    11-speed is now obsolete. Wow that was quick!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    Will this fit existing hubs?
    I'm guessing it will fit the XD freehub. The largest cog will follow the slope of the spokes. A concave "bottom" to the cassette, if that makes sense.
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    I'm not really sure who this for? Do most people need more range than what x01 gives? Is it for entry level riders who need more range? Why is it an X0 level then?

    I'd rather see an e-tap version of xx1

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    I could run the next size chain ring and get more gear for the down. I'm not the strongest rider so I'm left with a 30-10 gear ratio which at times I spin out pointing down...
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery View Post
    I'm not really sure who this for? Do most people need more range than what x01 gives? Is it for entry level riders who need more range? Why is it an X0 level then?
    Have to agree!

    I'm an entry level rider and this groupset would cost more than I'd want to spend on an entire bike. 3X makes much more sense to get the range I want.

    This has to be about marketing, the biggest, the baddest, not logic or need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Like2Hike View Post
    Have to agree!

    I'm an entry level rider and this groupset would cost more than I'd want to spend on an entire bike. 3X makes much more sense to get the range I want.

    This has to be about marketing, the biggest, the baddest, not logic or need.
    But the assumption that it is for entry level riders is false. You are clearly not the target market.

    There is plenty of market for gearing range. These exact same criticisms were made of 1x11 when it was introduced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    But the assumption that it is for entry level riders is false. You are clearly not the target market.

    There is plenty of market for gearing range. These exact same criticisms were made of 1x11 when it was introduced.
    Oh I agree this is an X0 level group hence not entry level. I'm just questioning who on the high end (usually stronger riders) needs more gear range than 10-42. I suppose that point is debatable, but haven't heard a ton of XX1 or X01 riders complaining they don't have the gear range anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery View Post
    I'm just questioning who on the high end (usually stronger riders) needs more gear range than 10-42. I suppose that point is debatable, but haven't heard a ton of XX1 or X01 riders complaining they don't have the gear range anymore.
    It's not hard to find people complaining about gearing range, justified or not, even among experienced, strong, and affluent riders. Whether they need it is debatable, but certainly some can justify it. Adding another gear marginalizes front shifting further and enables 1x optimizations in bikes for an even wider audience.

    It wasn't long ago that there was outrage over the useless extra gearing that no one needed with 1x11 and complaints over the greedy nature and gall of SRAM to introduce not only an entirely new standard but a new driver as well. Who could possibly need smaller than 11T, right? That kicked off the wide range 10 speed race that was clearly needed from the beginning but which no one bothered with until 11 speed came along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    But the assumption that it is for entry level riders is false. You are clearly not the target market.

    There is plenty of market for gearing range. These exact same criticisms were made of 1x11 when it was introduced.
    Exactly. I know a lot of people who want more range than what 1x11 offers and it's far from just entry level people. In fact I suspect it will have the most appeal with racers, I know a fair number of racers who are still running 2x setups because they want the extra range.

  25. #25
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    My guess is that it's in large part to facilitate the use of larger chainrings as "the norm". Smaller chainrings wear faster.

    Could also be for improved suspension, as most 1x bikes are designed around ~32t rings, but Joe Average prefers 28 or 30t.
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    Can't wait to see the chain line when it's up on the 50t cog.
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    I mean seriously..if this is your decided option for 1X climbing just run 2X10. At some point this 1X stuff gets stupid.
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    eTap xx1 with a 9-44 TRS Plus cassette would be ideal.

    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery View Post
    I'm not really sure who this for? Do most people need more range than what x01 gives? Is it for entry level riders who need more range? Why is it an X0 level then?

    I'd rather see an e-tap version of xx1

  29. #29
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    12 speed !!
    I cant cope.... Im going back to Sturmey-Archer 3 speed...A simpler time

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBeing View Post
    At some point this 1X stuff gets stupid.
    Once upon a time anything larger than 32T in the back was considered "stupid" and a big cog on a road bike was 25T. Comments like this get old after a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    Once upon a time anything larger than 32T in the back was considered "stupid" and a big cog on a road bike was 25T. Comments like this get old after a while.
    Roadies are running bigger than 25t these days? I've been out of it for awhile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Roadies are running bigger than 25t these days? I've been out of it for awhile.
    At times, yes, even racers. Road bikes now have 11-32 options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBeing View Post
    I mean seriously..if this is your decided option for 1X climbing just run 2X10. At some point this 1X stuff gets stupid.
    Every change in drivetrain since the invention of the bicycle has spawned these type of comments. This kind of range is not for everyone but there are plenty of options available for those of us who don't.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

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    The reason this is viable now is because of manufacturing improvements made over the past 10-20 years. When 10 speeds were launched, cassettes were stamped plates that were bolted together. Current 11 speed and soon 12 speed parts are machined from whole billet on special 3d CNC machines which results in a part with super tight tolerances. On top of that, bikes with thru axels are more prevalent which means the rear drive train itself is tighter and more consistent.

    All of this means we get to enjoy faster, more reliable shifting without a big hit to durability. The only thing that sucks is the high initial prices as the companies have to pay off big piles of expensive machining equipment. All of this stuff comes down in price after a few years though.

    Also, the cost of this equipment has come way down which is a big part of why we're seeing so many people manufacturing 11 speed parts now. I imagine we'll see after-market 12 speed cassettes and parts much faster than in previous generations so there's a good chance we won't have to deal with SRAM selling $500 cassettes for long.
    Last edited by Ogre; 02-27-2016 at 03:13 PM. Reason: huger?

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    Ogre:

    Umm. No.

    First of all. Majority of 11 speed cassettes are still stamped steel. It's cheap, easy and well known process. The billet steel cassettes are top-tier SRAM stuff. Nobody else does that because it is expensive as heck.

    Even SRAM in its medium and low end cassettes uses steel plate cogs bolted together.

    All the technology to make a 12 speed drivetrain existed 20 years ago.

    EDIT: By the way. The market ( that is: us ) has proven capable of buying $300 wear items. Why would a self respecting capitalist sell for less? Even now the 10 speed 11-42 cassettes carry a hefty premium over 11-36.

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    All the technology to make a 12 speed drivetrain existed 20 years ago.
    Nonsense. If it were possible, someone would have done it years ago and taken the bike industry by storm. As it was, SRAM's jump to 1x 11 let them grab a huge chunk of market–share from Shimano.

    Why would a self respecting capitalist sell for less?
    Because in a capitalist market, competition drives down prices. SRAM had a near monopoly on 11–speed components for a couple years which is why their 11–speed kit was sky-high for a long time. Ever since Shimano got 11–Speed components on the market, the two companies have been racing to launch lower priced 11–speed product lines.

    They aren't going to enjoy that kind of extended window with 12 speed components. Shimano got burned bad sitting on their hands for the 11–speed shift over and they aren't going to let it slide so long this time.

    Even now the 10 speed 11-42 cassettes carry a hefty premium over 11-36.
    Buying an extended range 10–speed cassette is roughly 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of upgrading to 11–speed which is the primary thing people are weighing them against.

  37. #37
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    Hey why no 1x13?? that must be better than 12 right? Its one more. And maybe you can fit a 65t cog on there? I have a feeling they will go 13 next year and are just milking the customers.
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    5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12, same conversation every time.
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    Nonsense. If it were possible, someone would have done it years ago and taken the bike industry by storm.
    And if someone _could_ weld a headtube at 65 degree angle in 1995, then someone would, and would have taken industry by storm

    Stamping 12 cogs instead of 8 could be done. Making 11 indents in the shift mechanism instead of 7 could be done as well. Sure, you would not have 2-way release, but you would have 12 speed drivetrain. In all honesty, 10 speed drivetrain is available from 2000, thus was in development in approx 1997 or so.

    Industry goes forward in baby steps. Precisely because cyclists are quite conservative to the whole idea of more-better.

    Because in a capitalist market, competition drives down prices.
    In capitalist market consumer demand drives prices up. Sram had a lead because they introduced super-wide cassettes along with dedicated 1by drivetrain to a market that was largely moving towards 1by drivetrains. Even they were surprised how much people wanted it because the initial marketing of XX1 was very conservative. I think they expected another hammerschmidt fiasco.

    Shimano does not give a flying what consumer wants. They sell to OEMs primarily.

    However. Extra wide cassettes could be introduced in 10 speed as well, and 9, and possibly 8. Elevenness is entirely superfluous. All 11 speed added was even more clicking, even worse chainline and backpedalling issues in some cases.

    Buying an extended range 10–speed cassette is roughly 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of upgrading to 11–speed which is the primary thing people are weighing them against.
    For no reason whatsoever. The 10 speed 11-42 costs approximately 50% more then 11-36 10 speed from the same manufacturer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBeing View Post
    I mean seriously..if this is your decided option for 1X climbing just run 2X10. At some point this 1X stuff gets stupid.
    I agree. I'm a 1x guy, but the question is how many cogs and how big of a gear do you hang out back to run 1x. 50t? I'm not a fan of front derailleurs, but I think I'd go that route before putting a 50t on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    I agree. I'm a 1x guy, but the question is how many cogs and how big of a gear do you hang out back to run 1x. 50t? I'm not a fan of front derailleurs, but I think I'd go that route before putting a 50t on.
    This. Has everyone already forgotten about that dread cross chaining? Chain line are close to that with 1x. I know when I look at mine, sometimes I think, I wouldn't have done that combo back with 3x.

    I know on some tech climbs I have to racthet my pedals, people are already having backpedaling and wear issues. Now with the dinner plates in the rear, weight differences are shrinking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uzurpator View Post
    And if someone _could_ weld a headtube at 65 degree angle in 1995, then someone would, and would have taken industry by storm
    In 1995 we had elastomer shocks with 1" travel. There was no point to 65 degree slack angles because the bikes couldn't handle it.

    Everything is stacked on top of the generations that came before. Better metals, higher tolerance manufacturing, and better technology to design bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    This. Has everyone already forgotten about that dread cross chaining? Chain line are close to that with 1x. I know when I look at mine, sometimes I think, I wouldn't have done that combo back with 3x.
    Yes, I forgot about cross chaining about 8 years ago when I ripped the front DR off my bike. It's easy to forget when it ceases to be a problem. With newer drivetrains designed to run 1x, it's just not something you ever think about.

    I know on some tech climbs I have to racthet my pedals, people are already having backpedaling and wear issues. Now with the dinner plates in the rear, weight differences are shrinking.
    That extra "dinner plate" weighs less than the front derailleur by itself, that's not counting the extra chainring, spidered crankset, cables, or shifter.

    Ultimately, I suspect that's the bigger argument against the 1x12 being successful has nothing to do with 2x alternatives. The problem with 1x12 is the that 1x11 offers enough range for most people and will soon be half the cost.

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    Won't that super large ring out back make for an awful lot of chain to suck up?

    The RD cage is going to have to be pretty long, making it more injury prone. Will maybe need to run the clutch at high tensions as well.

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    Sram X01 Eagle 1x12 speed for 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    Once upon a time anything larger than 32T in the back was considered "stupid" and a big cog on a road bike was 25T. Comments like this get old after a while.
    At some point the granny cog gets so big that rear derailleur is in jeopardy of getting damaged, bent, warped, or otherwise out of line that the rear shifting goes to hell. I think the industry is basically there. I'm certainly not 'hating' on 1x but it does have a diminishing return.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBeing View Post
    At some point the granny cog gets so big that rear derailleur is in jeopardy of getting damaged, bent, warped, or otherwise out of line that the rear shifting goes to hell. I think the industry is basically there.
    But you have no evidence to support that claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by MTBeing View Post
    I'm certainly not 'hating' on 1x but it does have a diminishing return.
    No, of course not. You're just making up things to support your narrative, no "hating" involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Won't that super large ring out back make for an awful lot of chain to suck up?

    The RD cage is going to have to be pretty long, making it more injury prone. Will maybe need to run the clutch at high tensions as well.
    There's a 40T difference in a 10-50 cassette. Existing RD's handle more chain take-up than that.

  48. #48
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    When the cogs go 50 so will the rd's obviously. The real question here you got to ask yourself is: do I really need a 50t cog?? Do I need a 500% range?

    When I was like 10 years old I found out that the big ring and the small one on my 3x7 didn't get any use. I could just as well have taken them off (if I had the tools and knowhow then). then it was like 11/12-30 or so. And it was completely sufficient. And it still IS! Running a wide range 11-30 now ooooh.
    And I wasn't exactly crying my eyes out when it was 12-28 either somehow.

    Hey I have a cool idea. why not make an 11-50 8sp?? One that fits the good old classic freehubs and is loose cog for easy replacement, uses the 8sp spacing, and 8sp chains for longevity and durability. Or even beef things up a bit. Make the cogs/chains/chainrings thicker. And maybe make it out of the space age material steel.

    But yeah, hmm, then again, that stuff would last for several years, can't have that now can we?? Stuff that lasts. Then no one would be buying new stuff.

    Just like when I had my 21 speed... Never changed a thing for several years, and it always worked. And I rode that bike every single day, all day long, for years!

    Sorry just thinking out loud.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    When the cogs go 50 so will the rd's obviously. The real question here you got to ask yourself is: do I really need a 50t cog?? Do I need a 500% range?
    This is a personal question. Some folks do, many don't. (and many people don't really need it, but swear it's vital to their riding).

    Make the cogs/chains/chainrings thicker. And maybe make it out of the space age material steel.
    Reliability and shift consistency has greatly improved in the past 15 years so I have no desire to swift back to 8–speed shifters. If durability is important, there are plenty of options with fairly modern kit though. You can put together a fairly durable 10-speed drivetrain with an 11-36t cassette, or a slightly less durable 11-40t cassette which is about 80% steel.

    Or you can really take it up a notch and get a Rohloff or Pinion drivetrain with Gates Belt drive. That stuff is beefy but lasts forever.

    But yeah, hmm, then again, that stuff would last for several years, can't have that now can we?? Stuff that lasts. Then no one would be buying new stuff.
    This kind of conspiracy thinking is always amusing. Ultimately, it's us, the consumers driving most of this. Steel parts are out there and almost always less expensive but people avoid them because they value lighter weight and higher performance bikes. There are tons of amazing steel bikes out there, but aluminum and carbon outsells them by a huge margin. Likewise, carbon and aluminum dominate the components industry as well.

    Just like when I had my 21 speed... Never changed a thing for several years, and it always worked. And I rode that bike every single day, all day long, for years!

    Sorry just thinking out loud.
    When I started riding mountain bikes I was about 18 years ago when I was in my early 30s. I had a fairly nice Gary Fisher with LX components, and the drive-train was total crap. I'd get chain suck about once every third ride and shifting was mediocre to absolutely awful under any kind of load. Not only did that stuff wear out, since it was a 3x setup, there were twice as many components wearing out if you didn't rotate your chain.

    I suspect the fact that your 21 speed lasted forever had more to do with the demands of a 10 year old rider than the merits of the technology. Because my experience with old world heavy steel components couldn't be more different from what you describe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    I have no idea why people are pining to go back to that older technology myself. .

    Because it works??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    I suspect the fact that your 21 speed lasted forever had more to do with the demands of a 10 year old rider than the merits of the technology. Because my experience with old world heavy steel components couldn't be more different from what you describe.
    Possibly yes but still I never had to change jack chit on that bike. Cant say that today.

    I'd say 8sp is far more durable than 11sp ever was or will be. but thats just me. Going form 9sp to 8sp stuff was quite an improvement for me. and i'm not going back. they can easily make 11-50 in 8sp if they wanted. And nobody really needs like 12 cogs out back. you only double shift anyway since its so close packed. why not make something truly good instead? I'm on 6sp now btw.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    Because it works??
    Again... huge discrepancy in experience here.

    Possibly yes but still I never had to change jack chit on that bike. Cant say that today.
    I weigh about 3 times what I weighed when I was 10.

    I'd say 8sp is far more durable than 11sp ever was or will be. but thats just me. Going form 9sp to 8sp stuff was quite an improvement for me. and i'm not going back. they can easily make 11-50 in 8sp if they wanted. And nobody really needs like 12 cogs out back. you only double shift anyway since its so close packed. why not make something truly good instead? I'm on 6sp now btw.
    I do get where you're coming from. My every-day beater bike is a single speed for many of the same reasons you lay out. But I also very much enjoy having a light–weight 11–speed drive train with a wide range on my full suspension bike when I'm on long rides (or the rare race).

    If they made a modern wide-range 1x8 steel setup focused on longevity and durability, it would be genuinely interesting but more for touring or bike packing. I'm just not interested in older shifters and derailleurs, too many bad experiences.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    But you have no evidence to support that claim.


    No, of course not. You're just making up things to support your narrative, no "hating" involved.
    Sure I do. Empirical evidence. No need to to get snarky, it's not cancer, just a hobby.
    Please donate to IMBA or your local IMBA chapter. It's trail karma.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBeing View Post
    Sure I do. Empirical evidence.
    And I have empirical evidence that you are making up yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by MTBeing View Post
    No need to to get snarky, it's not cancer, just a hobby.
    Same could be said to you. You're not "hating", just "hating".

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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    I'd say 8sp is far more durable than 11sp ever was or will be. but thats just me.
    Yes, it's just you. People love to make up facts to support their beliefs.

    If you're on 6 speed, what do you know about 11 speed that could possibly educate you on durability?

    If the market wanted fewer gears with wider range it would get that. It doesn't want it even if you do.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    Yes, it's just you. People love to make up facts to support their beliefs.

    If you're on 6 speed, what do you know about 11 speed that could possibly educate you on durability?

    If the market wanted fewer gears with wider range it would get that. It doesn't want it even if you do.
    shill much lately??


    Enjoy your 415$ cassettes, 320$ derailleurs and 57$ chains. You deserve it!

    While I enjoy my 12$ 8sp cassettes, 25$ rear D's, and 12$ chains. I had my last cassette and chainring for about 10000km and the chain I used for about 8-9000km or so. The rd now needs new jockey wheels... I also completely forgot to clean my bike (especially the drivetrain, its so yucky) during all that time.

    plz let us all know how it goes with your new 12sp
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    shill much lately??
    Who's paying you to spread FUD on the durability of modern drivetrains?

    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    Enjoy your 415$ cassettes, 320$ derailleurs and 57$ chains. You deserve it!

    While I enjoy my 12$ 8sp cassettes, 25$ rear D's, and 12$ chains. I had my last cassette and chainring for about 10000km and the chain I used for about 8-9000km or so. The rd now needs new jockey wheels... I also completely forgot to clean my bike (especially the drivetrain, its so yucky) during all that time.
    So the thing here is that you are poor and, as such, can't afford to enjoy current gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    plz let us all know how it goes with your new 12sp
    No doubt you will be interested but I don't recall ever claiming I was buying any "new 12p". Your straw man makes you feel good, though, I'm sure.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    Who's paying you to spread FUD on the durability of modern drivetrains?


    So the thing here is that you are poor and, as such, can't afford to enjoy current gear.


    No doubt you will be interested but I don't recall ever claiming I was buying any "new 12p". Your straw man makes you feel good, though, I'm sure.
    you know god damn well the newer sh1t dont last anywhere near as long as the old 9 and 8sp stuff. None of the components do. Or ever will.

    I am poor? Maybe I am? Or maybe I'm smart? I got payed about 7-8k in usd (If i convert it) last month. after taxes (35% or so now), and I was expecting more! I worked hard and long. I feel poor now. I wanted at least 2k more! and I deserved it!

    Of course I can afford anything I want bike related but why buy sh1t? I can pay for longevity and durability, but the rest?? well you can keep that sh1t.

    But you seem to think this is the best sh1t ever. So I'm guessing you're lining up at the LBS, camping out there for a week or so before release day just like apple fanboys do when a new iphone is released right?

    amirite?
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    you know god damn well the newer sh1t dont last anywhere near as long as the old 9 and 8sp stuff.
    No, that's your problem. I don't know that and have no reason to believe it's true, esp regarding 12 speed which doesn't exist. You need to get past your petty prejudices.

    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    But you seem to think this is the best sh1t ever.
    I seem to think that? News to me. I've simply challenge your bulls!t claims, not expressed feelings one way or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    So I'm guessing you're lining up at the LBS, camping out there for a week or so before release day just like apple fanboys do when a new iphone is released right?
    You're guessing, that's for sure, and your guess is intended to compensate for your feelings of inferiority.

    As usual on MTBR, little people throw temper tantrums when things don't go their way.

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    I feel so inferior right now. and inadequate, and infertile. And all this is because I dont have the new sram 12 speed. Yeah man. FML. really.

    I throw temper tantrums?? I don't even know wtf that means but if you say so. Is that a legal term??

    --------------------

    So craig do you think the new 12sp sram line is more durable/long lived than the sram 8sp (830 ) line or not? measured in kilometers before all of the sh1t is toast?
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    I feel so inferior right now. and inadequate, and infertile. And all this is because I dont have the new sram 12 speed. Yeah man. FML. really.

    I throw temper tantrums?? I don't even know wtf that means but if you say so. Is that a legal term??
    From a guy who just bragged about his monthly income, none of this surprises me.

    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    So craig do you think the new 12sp sram line is more durable/long lived than the sram 8sp (830 ) line or not?
    I have no reason to think one way or another. What I do know is that you have no idea either. Only one of us making claims here.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    From a guy who just bragged about his monthly income, none of this surprises me.


    I have no reason to think one way or another. What I do know is that you have no idea either. Only one of us making claims here.
    You implied that I was poor for choosing my 12$ cassettes i believe. and poorness (if thats even a real word) had nothing to do with it. Since I'm not poor.
    Are you poor? do you feel inadequate?
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  62. #62
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    I think folks are taking this stuff too personal.

    Maybe time for a nice long ride?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    You implied that I was poor for choosing my 12$ cassettes i believe. and poorness (if thats even a real word) had nothing to do with it. Since I'm not poor.
    You are overly fixated on the expense of modern gear and the remarkably low cost of the gear that you claim to you use. It seems clear that you have an abnormal sensitivity toward money, a fact proven by your subsequent responses.

    I'd say you have serious self-esteem issues. Perhaps they stem from poverty, perhaps not. Your concern with how others spend their money, though, is misplaced. The real fear here is you being left behind. The cool kids will have something new and you will not. That's why you keep crapping on new hardware, you want no one to want the new stuff so you won't have to pony up.

    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    Are you poor? do you feel inadequate?
    You keep making the point. Durability of parts is the last of my concerns because I can pay for it. If you made the money you claimed you did, you wouldn't be concerned with having to replace parts.

    You're embarrassing yourself, car bone. You fear being judged inadequate, that's why you are constantly making ridiculous boasts. Do yourself a favor and stop commenting.

  64. #64
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    cragsj,

    Personal attacks aren't cool at all. I'm sure you're an upright guy, but you are doing a fair imitation of a douchebag in that last post. Like I said, people are taking this too personal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    cragsj,

    Personal attacks aren't cool at all. I'm sure you're an upright guy, but you are doing a fair imitation of a douchebag in that last post. Like I said, people are taking this too personal.
    I believe in tit-for-tat. Don't like it, go elsewhere. If car bone doesn't want the insults he shouldn't dish them out.

  66. #66
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    I think someone needs a hug.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    I believe in tit-for-tat. Don't like it, go elsewhere. If car bone doesn't want the insults he shouldn't dish them out.
    I believe in "Don't-be-a-jerk", you should try it sometime.

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    There are people out there (like me) who haven't gone to 1X simply because we'd lose too much range. Being 6' 4" 225 lbs on 30 lb 6 inch travel bike and riding trails that average 2000+ ft of sustained climbing over 4-5 miles, I need the ulta-granny to get to the top (my current setup is 22x36, and it's great!). 28x42 isn't even low enough to keep me from a lot of hike-a-bike on many trails in my area, and 28Tx11T spins out too quickly on the other end. If I could get a functional/durable 30 x 10-50 setup, that would make 1X a lot more attractive.

  70. #70
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    From the link ludota posted:
    Quote Originally Posted by velovert
    10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36, 42 et 50
    It's like they took their 11 speed with a 42 tooth and added a 50t on top. A nice call, so you have basically the same range as a classic 10 speed cassette with 2 "granny options". With one lever pull you can move from 36 teeth to 50 teeth... something like 45% downshift.

    Thats two really big hops up top though, 6t then 8t.

    Not likely to be spotted on my bike for quite some time, but intriguing.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jboy71 View Post
    If I could get a functional/durable 30 x 10-50 setup, that would make 1X a lot more attractive.
    I suspect 12 speed is going to be limited to expensive not-super-durable aluminum, not entirely clyde friendly setups for some the next couple years. But interesting in the longer term.

  72. #72
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    Shit, I was just about to pull the trigger on an 11 speed setup. I'm going to wait till this 12 comes out.

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    You guys that complain about the cassette durability crack me up. I bet none of you have ever worn out a cassette. I was all worried about the aluminum 36t on the xx cassette I used to have. I used it for almost 4 years and that cog was still working ok when I swapped to 11 spd (and I sold the cassette on ebay for $75). The only wear issue with 1x is the front rings.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    You guys that complain about the cassette durability crack me up. I bet none of you have ever worn out a cassette. I was all worried about the aluminum 36t on the xx cassette I used to have. I used it for almost 4 years and that cog was still working ok when I swapped to 11 spd (and I sold the cassette on ebay for $75). The only wear issue with 1x is the front rings.
    I'll take that bet. I've worn out steel cassettes, chainrings, you name it. When you weigh 220-240 pounds and put 50-100 miles a week on a bike, gear wears out fast.

    I don't think I've ever had a cassette last 4 years.

    Edit: I like the 12-speed setup, I just don't think it qualifies as "Durable". If you want something lightweight with a huge range, it's great. "Durable" ehhh... not so much.

  75. #75
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    I put exactly 81,25miles a week on my stuff. and it doesn't wear fast. I own 16 casettes.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    You guys that complain about the cassette durability crack me up. I bet none of you have ever worn out a cassette. I was all worried about the aluminum 36t on the xx cassette I used to have. I used it for almost 4 years and that cog was still working ok when I swapped to 11 spd (and I sold the cassette on ebay for $75). The only wear issue with 1x is the front rings.
    I guess you don't ride enough!

  77. #77
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    I'm guessing I'm the only person in existence who is hoping they offer a 12 speed cassette with closer ratios...as well as the 10-50 rumored.

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    The 10-50 exists.......and the new black/gold color scheme option for the XX1 components would have really matched nicely with my recent build, but I'm not interested in 12-speed at this point. I'll leave the release info to SRAM, since they were kind enough to have a showing with our club tonight, which I believe comes tomorrow.
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  79. #79
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    I'm waiting for the 14sp 7-75 personally.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    just kidding. in the future like 10-15 years from now we will all be riding with hydraulic drivetrains. only 2 hoses back and forth. and a continously variable doohickey out back. and I'm the one who will invent it. wait and see... thats how its gonna be. I already have the transfer nailed. Only problem is boundary layer losses. i guess I'll work it out.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  81. #81
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    Doh, sorry. Started another thread.

    The information is trickling out... for some reason.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-sh...s-1007191.html
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    The one pic I took.......
    Sram Eagle 1x12-0323161931.jpg
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    Tuskenraider, this has got your name on it
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Sram Eagle 1x12-0323161830_hdr.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    retro grouch cynics drive me nuts but even for a fanboy for all new innovations 12 speeds is a bit much.
    You will submit to the marketing hype and purchase as instructed . Your 1x11 is now obsolete and might even be considered unsafe now by a few.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jboy71 View Post
    If I could get a functional/durable 30 x 10-50 setup, that would make 1X a lot more attractive.
    And now that we've seen the details, the first 11 gears of their 1x12 cassettes are machined steel... which will likely make it much more durable than the 1x11 aluminum ones.

    So... scratch what I said about durability. This one is likely tougher than it's predecessor.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    You will submit to the marketing hype and purchase as instructed . Your 1x11 is now obsolete and might even be considered unsafe now by a few.
    Grow up a little and recognize that other people being interested in something new and cool isn't a threat to your fun.

    It's possible to appreciate something without running out and buying it. Or to wait until the tech trickles down to reasonable prices. Or maybe you are overdue an upgrade and splurge on something nice. Or maybe you are well enough off that this isn't a huge outlay.

    Having a few more choices at the high end is great. It brings down the prices of everything and makes the older good bike technology more affordable for everyone. As others have pointed out, this pushes down the price of 10 speed and 11 speed stuff so everyone benefits here. The front-runners being willing to plop down big dollars for the latest and greatest funds development of new products that benefits us all.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuskenraider View Post
    The one pic I took.......
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sram Eagle 1x12-919ebfae3ce31f3df2dc147a0addd11ae9ae1f4eb92382ada9a917d1ab88c90c.jpg

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    People complain when companies don't innovate, so companies innovate, and then people complain that the new stuff is unnecessary and redundant.

    Gotta have stepping stones between groundbreaking inventions. Maybe this is the groundbreaker, maybe this is the stepping stone. I personally like it.
    => CannondaleExperts.com <=
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    shill much lately??


    Enjoy your 415$ cassettes, 320$ derailleurs and 57$ chains. You deserve it!

    While I enjoy my 12$ 8sp cassettes, 25$ rear D's, and 12$ chains. I had my last cassette and chainring for about 10000km and the chain I used for about 8-9000km or so. The rd now needs new jockey wheels... I also completely forgot to clean my bike (especially the drivetrain, its so yucky) during all that time.

    plz let us all know how it goes with your new 12sp
    You dang kids, get off my lawn!

  91. #91
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    I'm sure others have said this already but the chain is thinner, and the cassette will fit on existing XD drivers. The crankset has some funky looking teeth on it. Almost looks like a worn one after a few thousand miles, their almost hooked.

    Sram Eagle 1x12-eagle-crank.jpg

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by eicca View Post
    People complain when companies don't innovate, so companies innovate, and then people complain that the new stuff is unnecessary and redundant.
    Oops, I'll have to read the press release again. I must have missed the part where they innovated.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyVV View Post
    Oops, I'll have to read the press release again. I must have missed the part where they innovated.
    "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if dozens of grognards suddenly cried out in terror. I fear something terrible has happened." - Unknown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Little Bird View Post
    I'm sure others have said this already but the chain is thinner, and the cassette will fit on existing XD drivers. The crankset has some funky looking teeth on it. Almost looks like a worn one after a few thousand miles, their almost hooked.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    From Pinkbike's test ride article they're a different retention design that works better with the narrower chain, and it rides super smooth.
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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if dozens of grognards suddenly cried out in terror. I fear something terrible has happened." - Unknown.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


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    This will be great for kids bikes. Eventually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ETChipotle View Post
    This will be great for kids bikes. Eventually.

    I have no kids, but even if i did i would not love them enough to put a 1500$ drivetrain on their bike

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    Kids? That's funnier than shit! Not that shit is all that funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if dozens of grognards suddenly cried out in terror. I fear something terrible has happened." - Unknown.
    So you think my comment's unfair to SRAM? I'm fine with a 1x12; I'm just not going to pretend it's a genuine innovation.

    Grow up a little and recognize that other people being interested in something new and cool isn't a threat to your fun.
    Or... Grow up a little and recognize that other people being critical of something new and only marginally improved isn't a threat to your fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyVV View Post
    So you think my comment's unfair to SRAM? I'm fine with a 1x12; I'm just not going to pretend it's a genuine innovation.
    No, I just use the more traditional definition of the word innovation.

    Has anyone made these before? Nope

    Do they use manufacturing techniques or processes which haven't been used previously? Yep (machining the cassette out of steel billet instead of stamping it alone is innovation)

    I know some people think innovation requires some radical change, but that's not really the case. It's different and clearly better in some ways. That's innovation.

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