• 03-08-2018
    kinuse
    Shimano SLX M670 10 speed with 11-46 cassette
    I have Cannondale cujo 2 2017 with 10 speed SLX m670 (11-36) in the rear and 22/36 in the front.
    I want to change it to 28t + 11-46 in the rear.
    Will it work without changing rear derailleur and shifters, or 11-46 is too big?
  • 03-08-2018
    thecanoe
    I changed my 11-36 10 speed to an 11-42 without changing anything else. I think with a 46 youíd at least need a goat link.


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  • 03-09-2018
    shortnangry
    The SLX M670 medium cage has a 35t capacity so it should handle 11-46 in a 1x drivetrain (long cage is 43t). The rated big cog size is 36t, but riders have exceeded that since the introduction of giant cogs as cassette add-ons. You will probably need a longer b adjustment screw so that the upper jockey wheel will clear the big cog. I donít know how well itíll shift; people have different ideas about shifting performance. You may also need a goat link to improve shifting.

    I assume youíre using a 10 spd cassette. There arenít a lot in 11-46. I only know of Sunrace.
  • 03-11-2018
    OregonXC
    I run 11-46 10-speed xt. B-screw cranked in worked but shifted really sloppy. Goat link solved it.
  • 03-12-2018
    kinuse
    Do goat links differ? Or there is one type which fits all the derailleurs?
    If I have a goat link do I need to play with B screw?

    Maybe it is easier to buy a new rear derailleur? Or they all need a goat link to work with big cassettes?
  • 03-12-2018
    *OneSpeed*
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kinuse View Post
    Do goat links differ? Or there is one type which fits all the derailleurs?
    If I have a goat link do I need to play with B screw?

    Maybe it is easier to buy a new rear derailleur? Or they all need a goat link to work with big cassettes?

    Did you try going HERE to answer your own question? Yes, you'll need the B screw.
  • 03-12-2018
    Varaxis
    I've done 1200 miles on a 11-46 cassette with a XT 11spd RD, and have come to the conclusion that the dinner plate granny gear comes with significant drawbacks.

    To get the RD's upper pulley to clear the dinner plate and be able to shift into it, it severely compromises the shifting in the smaller cogs. The closer the pulley is to the cogs, the better the shifting is. Since the upper pulley needs to clear the dinner plate, there's over an inch of space between the cogs and the pulley in all other gears. This leads to noise and slippage, especially in the fast gears when you're trying to hammer downhill. The tolerances are so tight, the chain lifts off the cog since it catches on the adjacent gear due to the wiggle room, but since there's not much chain-tooth engagement/wrap for the 11 and 13t, this lift leads to slipping.

    SRAM handled shifting accuracy across the cassette better with their greatly offset upper pulley, but such pulley offset doesn't play nice with front shifting. Shimano took front shifting into consideration, but 11-46 seems more like a compromise due to industry demand.

    I'm reverting back to non-dinner plate cassettes and just forcing myself to pedal frigger harder. It's what I did before anyways. When you're going slow, you deal with so much rolling resistance. The faster you go, the less the rolling resistance seems to bog you down, at least until aerodynamic drag starts to play a role, but that's not likely on a climb. I prefer something that's engineered to higher standards, with more reasonable costs.
  • 03-14-2018
    shortnangry
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    I've done 1200 miles on a 11-46 cassette with a XT 11spd RD, and have come to the conclusion that the dinner plate granny gear comes with significant drawbacks.

    To get the RD's upper pulley to clear the dinner plate and be able to shift into it, it severely compromises the shifting in the smaller cogs. The closer the pulley is to the cogs, the better the shifting is. Since the upper pulley needs to clear the dinner plate, there's over an inch of space between the cogs and the pulley in all other gears. This leads to noise and slippage, especially in the fast gears when you're trying to hammer downhill. The tolerances are so tight, the chain lifts off the cog since it catches on the adjacent gear due to the wiggle room, but since there's not much chain-tooth engagement/wrap for the 11 and 13t, this lift leads to slipping.

    SRAM handled shifting accuracy across the cassette better with their greatly offset upper pulley, but such pulley offset doesn't play nice with front shifting. Shimano took front shifting into consideration, but 11-46 seems more like a compromise due to industry demand.

    I'm reverting back to non-dinner plate cassettes and just forcing myself to pedal frigger harder. It's what I did before anyways. When you're going slow, you deal with so much rolling resistance. The faster you go, the less the rolling resistance seems to bog you down, at least until aerodynamic drag starts to play a role, but that's not likely on a climb. I prefer something that's engineered to higher standards, with more reasonable costs.

    On an 11 spd Shimano RD, a Wolf Tooth "Wolf Cage" mod to the RD solves this. I've been using it on an 11 spd XT RD with a Shimano cassette and 49t GC. The mod mimics what SRAM did as far as off-setting the upper jockey wheel. It shifts really well and runs quietly. There is not, though, a similar product for 10 spd and I have no idea whether the Wolf Cage mod would fit the 10 spd RD, per OP's question; I haven't measured the distances between the upper and lower jockey wheels. This might help your situation but probably not OP's.
  • 03-14-2018
    Sparkman999
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by shortnangry View Post
    On an 11 spd Shimano RD, a Wolf Tooth "Wolf Cage" mod to the RD solves this. I've been using it on an 11 spd XT RD with a Shimano cassette and 49t GC. The mod mimics what SRAM did as far as off-setting the upper jockey wheel. It shifts really well and runs quietly. There is not, though, a similar product for 10 spd and I have no idea whether the Wolf Cage mod would fit the 10 spd RD, per OP's question; I haven't measured the distances between the upper and lower jockey wheels. This might help your situation but probably not OP's.

    OneUp components has the Radr cage which works like that for a 10 speed system. Running that on my fat bike.


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  • 03-14-2018
    shortnangry
    Have you used it with 46t? I thought the One Up cage mods were for up to 42t. If it works, that's a good option. OP is looking to use 11-46t 10 spd.
  • 03-14-2018
    Sparkman999
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by shortnangry View Post
    Have you used it with 46t? I thought the One Up cage mods were for up to 42t. If it works, that's a good option. OP is looking to use 11-46t 10 spd.

    Only up to 42T right now, but there looks to be enough clearance for it to work with 46T. Was planning to order a wide range cassette to try with it.
  • 03-14-2018
    RAKC Ind
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    I've done 1200 miles on a 11-46 cassette with a XT 11spd RD, and have come to the conclusion that the dinner plate granny gear comes with significant drawbacks.

    To get the RD's upper pulley to clear the dinner plate and be able to shift into it, it severely compromises the shifting in the smaller cogs. The closer the pulley is to the cogs, the better the shifting is. Since the upper pulley needs to clear the dinner plate, there's over an inch of space between the cogs and the pulley in all other gears. This leads to noise and slippage, especially in the fast gears when you're trying to hammer downhill. The tolerances are so tight, the chain lifts off the cog since it catches on the adjacent gear due to the wiggle room, but since there's not much chain-tooth engagement/wrap for the 11 and 13t, this lift leads to slipping.

    SRAM handled shifting accuracy across the cassette better with their greatly offset upper pulley, but such pulley offset doesn't play nice with front shifting. Shimano took front shifting into consideration, but 11-46 seems more like a compromise due to industry demand.

    I'm reverting back to non-dinner plate cassettes and just forcing myself to pedal frigger harder. It's what I did before anyways. When you're going slow, you deal with so much rolling resistance. The faster you go, the less the rolling resistance seems to bog you down, at least until aerodynamic drag starts to play a role, but that's not likely on a climb. I prefer something that's engineered to higher standards, with more reasonable costs.

    Something doesnt seem right here. If you are using an m8000 rear derailleur a 46t is of no issue at all. Everything sets up exactly as its supposed to except shifting can get slightly wonky on the bottom end because pull ratios are ever so slightly different. Very small window to get shifting just right on a 10 speed cassette.

    I run shimano 11s with a shimano 11-46 cassette and shifts just as great as shimano always has.

    Im gathering you meant to say 10 speed RD not 11.

    As for a 46T on a 10s RD, not going work. 42t is as much as they go without issues or serious mods in which buying an 11 speed rear derailleur (even xt m8000) is a fair bit cheaper.

    The shifter is cheap and your already looking at spending money to get the rest of the range in the rear of 11 speed, might as well do it. Then everything will set up and function easily, end up with close to the same money invested (if not less when said and done) as you would buying the bits to modify your current derailleur to hopefully work at a tolerable level.

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  • 03-14-2018
    Varaxis
    RD-M8000.

    Now that you mention it, it's the same issue with adapting the 10spd RD to work with 11-42 compared to 11-36 it was originally optimized for.

    *looks for Goat Link* *find post from Mark Lindarets saying the same thing about XTR being originally designed for 11-40 and 11-42.* *sees 11 spd version for M8000 and M9000 for $27*
  • 03-14-2018
    RAKC Ind
    That must have been the very original release of them because this is literally the first time Ive seen it even mentioned anywhere and Ive been riding shimano 11s with 11-46 for the last year and been perfect. If there was an issue shimano wouldn't have 11-46 cassettes. Specs on the derailleurs makes it pretty clear they can take 46t, at least anything except original 11s release a few years ago.

    Hell they have 10s derailleur out, about a year or so now, that are speced for 42t.

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  • 03-14-2018
    Varaxis
    1 Attachment(s)
    It was stock spec on a brand new bike that I had on pre-order and received late Nov '17. Occasional skipping in the 11 and 13t is the only prob I got. I tested the 2 cogs with a HG checker and it looks fine @ 1350 mi. Threw a new Shimano XT chain on too, but didn't fix it. Doesn't slip under hard torque with the brake held. It only skips when I'm actually riding, but in the stand I can clearly see it lift at 1 pin/roller point as chain begins to mesh at about 8 o'clock on the go, then drop back down in the proper gear before the next roller comes up. Tolerances are tight; not much gap between the chain and next cog. The chainline is centered around the 4th smallest cog.

    Question for ya: with your RD-M8000 and 11-46 combo, does your chain's roller start engaging the smaller cogs' teeth at between 6-7 o'clock, or more around 8 o'clock?

    Example image pulled off the web that shows engagement at about 7 o'clock:

    Attachment 1187606
  • 03-14-2018
    RAKC Ind
    Heres a bunch of pics. Mine starts to mess between 6 and 7.

    Took a couple to show my b-limit clearance on the 46t. I dont set by specs, I set as close as I can get by with before trying to climb up onto the 46t makes gross noises.

    This is my b+ HT with a sunrace 11-46 11s cassette.

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  • 03-14-2018
    Varaxis
    2 Attachment(s)
    Attachment 1187628
    - Wrap around for 11t. Roller doesn't touch until about 7 to 8 o'clock (first chain pin below the pin at 9 o'clock). Pulley is as close as it gets to the 46t, yet there's still well over an inch gap between it and the cog.

    Attachment 1187629
    - Upside-down pic shows how close the teeth are to the chain. Just a small wiggle and the chain will lift up a little... doesn't even have to be the chain that wiggles, it could be the RD, the hub, or even flex in the some part of the frame.

    *shrug* All I know is it absolutely is a buzzkill for the chain to skip when I'm hammering. I use flats, so it's annoying having to reposition my feet if it slips, esp due to these chain skips.
  • 03-14-2018
    RAKC Ind
    Ya I could see that being annoying as hell. Oddly enough I have no issues and Im 270lbs.

    Look at your pics though, probably a dumb question, but it looks like your chain is kind of running inside a bit much. Like limit/cable adjustment could use being backed off a hair or 2. I do run mine where there is a visual gap between the chain and cogs on the bottom of the cassette.

    Just a thought, if it would help, if you have tried it, etc I have no idea, but at least on 11t it does LOOK too far to the inside based on the pics. And one thing I learned with 11s and and way worse with 12s, very tiny margin between perfection and pissing you off.

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  • 03-14-2018
    RAKC Ind
    Heres a couple more, mine seems to start engaging at about 7, slightly sooner than yours. See if you cant let a little more b limit out of it.

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  • 03-14-2018
    Varaxis
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Ya I could see that being annoying as hell. Oddly enough I have no issues and Im 270lbs.

    Look at your pics though, probably a dumb question, but it looks like your chain is kind of running inside a bit much. Like limit/cable adjustment could use being backed off a hair or 2. I do run mine where there is a visual gap between the chain and cogs on the bottom of the cassette.

    Just a thought, if it would help, if you have tried it, etc I have no idea, but at least on 11t it does LOOK too far to the inside based on the pics. And one thing I learned with 11s and and way worse with 12s, very tiny margin between perfection and pissing you off.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

    Actually, I fiddled with the H limit to go a bit more outboard, towards the dropout. The cable bows, it's so slack.

    When I combine the inside limit with seeing what the effect the pulley being further out, it would dump the chain into my dropout.

    I got 10spd cassettes to burn still. I got a XTR 10 spd rear shifter that feels like a swiss watch too.



    Just saw your new post. Dang, your setup looks pretty good. Thanks for that. Got a higher standard to aim for now.

    Attachment 1187631
  • 03-14-2018
    RAKC Ind
    Ya I miss 10 speed to a point, much less forgiving. Im only 11s because I wanted a b+ bike and biggest thing is frame color design for me. Bike came 1x10 but cannondale and their proprietary crap lol. Smallest chainring available was the stock 30t. 11-42 on 3.0 tires with fat guy riding dont mix. Bigger 10s wasnt out yet unless doing a hack job.

    My fat bike is 10s, with the abundance of wide range cassettes now itll probably stay that way. 10s is cheap and bomb proof compared to new stuff. Just the whole making wide range work is a pain in the a$$ if you want more than 42t.

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  • 02-10-2019
    XC4ME
    Got a bit lost on the 10s vs 11s answers.
    Has anyone run a 10s 46t with a Shimano M675 RD?
    With / without goat link?
    Ok or not?