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  1. #1
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    Do you have a Pinion gearbox bike, come on in!

    I wanted to create a thread where people could come to gather that have a Pinion gearbox bike. Sharing experiences, sharing tips and tricks and of course show your bike. There are a bunch of threads that are on German sites which kinda makes sense since its a German made product. But I have not been able to find a thread that is in English where anybody that has a Pinion gearbox bike can chime in and share. This is not a thread for derailleurs vs. gearbox. I myself have just ordered a Cheetah Mountain Spirit Enduro with a Pinion gearbox. Unfortunately it's a bit late due to my color choice of purple ano.

  2. #2
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    I have a Nicolai Helius Pinion AC. It's a great bike.


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    Nice rig I have always had a soft spot for Nicolai. Do you find that the 18 gears are to much. What kind of riding style do you have.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979 View Post
    I have a Nicolai Helius Pinion AC. It's a great bike.
    Great looking bike! I am really thinking about getting one as well. I could use a few more gears.
    Last edited by Max24; 03-08-2015 at 10:23 PM.

  5. #5
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    Unfortunately My new Bike has not come in yet but I can post her specs:

    Enduro Mountain Spirit 27.5 2014
    Frame Size - S
    Wheel size - 650B front and rear
    Rear Shock - RockShox Monarch Plus RC3 170mm Travel
    Fork - RockShox PIKE RCT3 2P 160/130mm 15mm ML Tapered
    Brakes - Avid Elixir 5 200/180mm*
    Wheels - Pinion Hubs H.1*/Mavic EN321d
    Tires - Schwalbe Hans Dampf 2.35
    Headset - Cheetah Lola Tapered
    Stem - Truvativ Holzfeller 50mm Black
    Handlebar - Truvativ Hussefelt OS 700mm/40mm Rise
    Seatpost - RS ! Reverb Stealth 420mm
    Saddle - SDG Bel-Air RL schwarz
    Cranks - Pinion P1.18 30T
    Gearbox - Pinion Getriebe Pinion P1.18 Color Purple
    Shifter - Pinion Drehgriff Color Purple
    Cassette - Pinion 32
    Frame Color - RAL 7000
    Decals - White
    Finish - Glossy
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPA8580 View Post
    Nice rig I have always had a soft spot for Nicolai. Do you find that the 18 gears are to much. What kind of riding style do you have.
    I've ridden it on pretty much everything but it excels on technical terrain.

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    How many miles do you think you have put on her so far. Also did it take you long to get used to the box in terms of shifting?
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  8. #8
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    I just saw on the their webpage that Pinion are bringing out a couple of new boxes.
    MEET US AT EUROBIKE 2014 | PINION / P1.18 / DRIVE TECHNOLOGY
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPA8580 View Post
    How many miles do you think you have put on her so far. Also did it take you long to get used to the box in terms of shifting?
    It's probably have about 400km on it. It took a few rides to get used to using a gripshift mechanism and decreasing pedalling force to change to and easier gear, but it was really more about timing that decrease in force than doing anything differently to a derailleur system.

    I'm hoping the make a lighter weight version with the same number of gears and range. It is a brilliant system.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979 View Post
    It's probably have about 400km on it. It took a few rides to get used to using a gripshift mechanism and decreasing pedalling force to change to and easier gear, but it was really more about timing that decrease in force than doing anything differently to a derailleur system.

    I'm hoping the make a lighter weight version with the same number of gears and range. It is a brilliant system.
    And hopefully you can just swap it out with the one you have.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  11. #11
    Jkj
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    Hi, that is a interesting gear box would you mind to explain how it work and can it be use on any bike ? I dont understand german. Many thanks

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jkj View Post
    Hi, that is a interesting gear box would you mind to explain how it work and can it be use on any bike ? I dont understand german. Many thanks
    Ok so here is the basics. The pinion gearbox has 18 gears housed in a single box. The box sits in the middle of the frame. As with pretty much all gearboxes the frame has to be purpose built (see photo):

    Name:  th.jpeg
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    Shifting is done via a twist shifter. I know a lot of people prefer triggers, I personally don't care as long as it works. The reason behind the twister from what I know is the fact that there is no counter force pulling the cable. With a derailleur the spring in the derailleur pulls the cable tight. The gearbox doesn't have that and thus a trigger is currently not available. However things may change this Eurobike as they are showing a bunch of new stuff.

    Unlike some of the gearboxes this one will actually let you shift under load. Meaning you can shift whilst peddling. I think crank1979 is better at explaining if that is indeed the case. From what I have read on the internet it can be done but not with the force you may know when using a derailleur.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPA8580 View Post
    I just saw on the their webpage that Pinion are bringing out a couple of new boxes.
    MEET US AT EUROBIKE 2014 | PINION / P1.18 / DRIVE TECHNOLOGY
    It looks like a 12 speed and two 9 speed versions. No lightweight 18 speed?

  14. #14
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    Yeah I saw that too. I'm curious if the new ones will fit on bikes with then 18 spd. version. A lighter version of the 18 would be nice. I think they first way to do it would be to make an enclosure that is made ouyt of a lighter material
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  15. #15
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    So finally she is in.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  16. #16
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    Finally in after three months

    First pic.Do you have a Pinion gearbox bike, come on in!-10665373_10152860019368203_6433414903182234972_n.jpg
    Last edited by TPA8580; 11-02-2014 at 02:07 AM. Reason: picture USD
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  17. #17
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    So, the Pinion gearbox is controlled by a cable-actuated gripshifter, which controls crank resistance?
    "This is a male-dominated forum... there will be lots of Testosterone sword-shaming here" ~ Kenfucius

  18. #18
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    It looks like those idler pulleys would take a few hits, or no?

  19. #19
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    Interesting. Why does it require idler pulleys?

    It would seem to be a perfect application for a carbon belt drive. They show a belt drive in their brochure.

    How much weight does it add to a bike?

  20. #20
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    I imagine they need the pulleys to account for chain growth.

  21. #21
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    Looks like a taper steerer.. Head tube a straight 56mm or is it 1.5"? Interesting dimensions on the Cheetah...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachariah View Post
    So, the Pinion gearbox is controlled by a cable-actuated gripshifter, which controls crank resistance?
    I wouldn't call it resistance there are 18 real gear in there. But yeah it uses a twister shifter which has been a many years ago for me. But I have to say I'm a flexible guy so I really don't care trigger or twister.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  23. #23
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    I haven't heard anything about that. It must be said that when the bike is using it's travel in the rear that the pull is actually pulled back wards and up. This way it actually eliminates the risk of bumping into anything.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  24. #24
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    Yeah the weight is the main issue and always has been with gearbox bikes. The 18 Gear version which I have weighs in total (gearbox, cranks, sprockets, shifter, pully,) 3,2KG which is a lot. The 9 Gear version which is actually more gearde towards Enduro is about 600g lighter.
    There are a couple of bikes that use the Pinion gear box with a gates belt drive. But I have only seen it on hardtail's never fully's.
    Last edited by TPA8580; 11-09-2014 at 05:25 AM.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  25. #25
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    I am not going to lie to you this bike is a beast and the way it is constructed reflects that as well. So Cheetah have chosen to not use a standard headset but rather something different. I may be incorrect on this but basically these are industrial bearings. So yes the steerer is tapered. I didn't measure it before I put the fork in, but that was not 56mm. IT was more like 60mm. The outer diameter of the tube is 67mm.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  26. #26
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    When I was comparing my Nicolai Pinion build to the standard Helius the Pinion gearbox bike is about a kilogram heavier.

    The pulley allows for chain growth as the suspension moves through it's travel. There is always some chain lengthening unless the bottom pivot is concentric about the bottom bracket. I've hit mine a few times but because it is spring loaded it just moves up with the hit.

  27. #27
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    Subscribed. Waiting for info on the lighter 12 & 9spd versions.
    Keep the Country country.

  28. #28
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    Does the pinion have bearings fully supporting each side of the crank axle like a standard BB?

    Was looking at the geo chart yesterday and couldn't get it to translate, what's the word for wheelbase in German?

  29. #29
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    Wheelbase = Radstand

  30. #30
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    The Konstruktion tab was hidden with the mobil held sideways, but I was able to find it now, thanks.

  31. #31
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    For a hardtail the Pinon looks great but for suspension the Effigear looks nice since it has a nicely located concentric swingarm allowing belt drive.
    Keep the Country country.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPA8580 View Post
    Unfortunately My new Bike has not come in yet but I can post her specs:

    Enduro Mountain Spirit 27.5 2014
    Frame Size - S
    Wheel size - 650B front and rear
    Rear Shock - RockShox Monarch Plus RC3 170mm Travel
    Fork - RockShox PIKE RCT3 2P 160/130mm 15mm ML Tapered
    Brakes - Avid Elixir 5 200/180mm*
    Wheels - Pinion Hubs H.1*/Mavic EN321d
    Tires - Schwalbe Hans Dampf 2.35
    Headset - Cheetah Lola Tapered
    Stem - Truvativ Holzfeller 50mm Black
    Handlebar - Truvativ Hussefelt OS 700mm/40mm Rise
    Seatpost - RS ! Reverb Stealth 420mm
    Saddle - SDG Bel-Air RL schwarz
    Cranks - Pinion P1.18 30T
    Gearbox - Pinion Getriebe Pinion P1.18 Color Purple
    Shifter - Pinion Drehgriff Color Purple
    Cassette - Pinion 32
    Frame Color - RAL 7000
    Decals - White
    Finish - Glossy
    Looks nice. What did it weigh in at complete? How do you find the suspension? Im not to worried about the weight but more the suspension....have been riding Santa Cruz VVP for quite a while now & really like it..it just bugs me wearing out & cleaning the drive line all the time. Really like the Pinion idea.

    I'm keen order the Trail Mountain Spriit in 29er. How did you go with the ordering process with them? I'm having difficulty translating the web site & have sent them an email but no reply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymtber View Post
    Looks nice. What did it weigh in at complete? How do you find the suspension? Im not to worried about the weight but more the suspension....have been riding Santa Cruz VVP for quite a while now & really like it..it just bugs me wearing out & cleaning the drive line all the time. Really like the Pinion idea.

    I'm keen order the Trail Mountain Spriit in 29er. How did you go with the ordering process with them? I'm having difficulty translating the web site & have sent them an email but no reply.
    OK so the suspension is fine, no it is not VPP good, it is active but not as active as I thought. Pedalbob is there but nothing terrible. These bikes are build to be sturdy and last along time. Having said that it does come with a weight penalty. Mine weighs in at around 16KG. Which when I compare it to my 9KG hardtail is a lot. But with the 650B wheels I really do not sense is that much. It is rather quick. The pinion is awesome, although I will admit it does take a little getting use to but nothing dramatic.

    As I am Dutch, German was a mandatory subject at school, so the website is not a problem for me. But I can imagine that it would be for someone who is not familiar with the language. And Google translate is not perfect. I found the people at Cheetah to be really helpful. Ilona Herrlinger does write in German and in English if need be. Sometimes they can be a little sluggish in responding (It's a family business with only Iliona and her husband Micheal). But hit them up again on Facebook and they'll be sure to respond to you. If you need help with some of the translation stuff. Let me know I can help.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

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    Thanks for that. I'm hoping the Trail mountain spirit will come in around 12.5 with some carbon bits and custom wheels. I'd did see somewhere on their website they are around 11.5 with and "old-school" drive line.

    Starting to figure out their website. Ideally i would like to order the frame, gearbox, driveline parts and hubs and build up the rest with the parts i want.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymtber View Post
    Thanks for that. I'm hoping the Trail mountain spirit will come in around 12.5 with some carbon bits and custom wheels. I'd did see somewhere on their website they are around 11.5 with and "old-school" drive line.

    Starting to figure out their website. Ideally i would like to order the frame, gearbox, driveline parts and hubs and build up the rest with the parts i want.
    Your welcome.

    So it (Trail mountain spirit) will be closer to 12,5 with the old drive line. The Pinion gear line is about 3KG total. So to be honest a 12,5 with Pinion will be difficult. I think I will be able to get mine to about 14,5 KG with a different set of wheels and some carbon parts. I rode her today and I am still very happy with her. Just hope this damn cough goes away so I can really ride her.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  36. #36
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    12.5kg for a Pinion bike would be brilliant, but difficult to achieve without compromising on parts or drilling lots of speed holes!

  37. #37
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    This is mine from Malaysia. The frame was built by Pilotcycles. It is about 500km now. Some problems with others like belts, shifter and maybe the hubs, but not the gearbox. Currently experiencing squeaking noise while pedaling at low gear uphill, hoping it is from the pedal.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Do you have a Pinion gearbox bike, come on in!-pilot-pinion.jpg  


  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgaban View Post
    This is mine from Malaysia. The frame was built by Pilotcycles. It is about 500km now. Some problems with others like belts, shifter and maybe the hubs, but not the gearbox. Currently experiencing squeaking noise while pedaling at low gear uphill, hoping it is from the pedal.
    Looks like a great bike is it Titanium? How is the belt drive? Do you have the 18sp or 12sp or 9sp?
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  39. #39
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    There is a new Nicolai ION GPI with pinion gearbox and gates belt drive:

    Exklusiv: Erste Bilder vom Nicolai ION GPI Enduro

  40. #40
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    Yip saw that, when reading through the article though it does seems that this is not a aftermarket thing and the frame has to have a specific chain tensioner. Also it seems that due to the earliness of the design that this ION16 is actually more a ION155 as they have had to reduce the suspension travel. Nothing major but a deal breaker for me as my 170mm on my Cheetah is really nice. Knowing Nicolai they will probably have a really announcement at Eurobike. Even more reason for me to go.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  41. #41
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    Love my Cheetah, would love to get her out more but busy job you know how it goes. Made some upgrades:

    - Ergon Grips
    - Hope E3 Brakes
    - Hope AM stem
    - Haero Carbon Enduro bar
    - Stans Tubesless kitt

    Future upgrades:

    - Different wheels
    - Replace Saddle as I hate this saddle it hurts my ass, no matter how long I ride it.
    - Differen pedals, not that these are bad, but I like the idea of have flat on one side and clipless on the other.
    - Dif. Tires don't know what yet
    - Switch to pinion 12 speed
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Do you have a Pinion gearbox bike, come on in!-img_0276.jpg  

    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  42. #42
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    I've been rocking the P1.12 a bit on my roadie/commuter/shenanigans rig.
    I like it enough that I'll put a Pinion on my next MTB build.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Do you have a Pinion gearbox bike, come on in!-pc042596.jpg  


  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by zahgurim View Post
    I've been rocking the P1.12 a bit on my roadie/commuter/shenanigans rig.
    I like it enough that I'll put a Pinion on my next MTB build.
    Dude that is a sweet ride, congrats.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  44. #44
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    Over on the nicolai forum there is rumors of a trigger shifter coming soon for some of the gearboxes which would be awesome. I think it is one of the reasons that it has not been more widely adopted yet, that and it is a large change from what has been done for years by everyone. I would love to see a trigger shifter for the 9 and 12 speed boxes, and have it picked up by some larger companies to put pinion more on the map. Fat bikes seem like a no brainier to start at, due to weight not being as great of a concern and the fact no tensioner is needed, not to mention it is not effected by cold/frozen temps and snow. I would love for the next fs bike I buy in 3 years to have a pinion gearbox without a large weight penalty and have some decent frame selection from different companies.

  45. #45
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    Hi guys, I am debating about buying the P12 box and protoing up a frame with it. How bad is the drag compared to a normal set up? Also, how do you feel about the weight gain?

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    Peregrinebikes have a look at the Nicolai forum where there is some information about pinion gearbox. Under the following link you can find also some information on drag and weight of the pinion:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/nicolai/nicol...cs-986181.html

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrinebikes View Post
    Hi guys, I am debating about buying the P12 box and protoing up a frame with it. How bad is the drag compared to a normal set up? Also, how do you feel about the weight gain?
    I've got the original P1.18, not the 12. I find the drag on my Rohloff bike very pronounced. I can't tell any difference between the P1.18 Pinion gearbox and my other, standard derailleur equipped bikes. Lighter would be better but it's not until a few hours into a ride that the extra weight becomes noticeable. The 12 and 9 speed versions each weigh less than the 18 though.

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    Thanks for the replies. I have read the Nicolai thread and he just mentions that the drag is not noticable. They are running belts which i have heard people complain that that drag is noticable with belt drive. I would do a chain. I would just like to get as many peoples responses on drag who have spent time on them to make an informed decision. For some it is a deal breaker. I am looking at marketing these so input is helpful.

  49. #49
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    Anyone has more information on this bike? picture taken from pinion website:
    https://pinion.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/12-03.jpg

    I'm very intrigued by this build.. final weigh and who made that carbon frame.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepsz View Post
    Anyone has more information on this bike? picture taken from pinion website:
    https://pinion.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/12-03.jpg

    I'm very intrigued by this build.. final weigh and who made that carbon frame.

    Found it! Its a QUANTOR TRIEBWERK...not sure what version. The top end version 10.0 with Rock Shox RS1 fork is 10500g (23.15lbs). Not too bad of a weight for a gearbox frame but not light for a hardtail...but I LIKE IT!!! would put on my list of dreams for sure!

    QUANTOR TRIEBWERK 8.0 - QUANTOR

  51. #51
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    Do you have a Pinion gearbox bike, come on in!

    Can anyone share with me a blueprint (technical drawing) of the 'pinion receiver plate' with all the bolts placements the is attached to the frame? Or somewhere where I can find this information? Also...is it standard for all pinion boxes?

  52. #52
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    I have one pinion Fap bike

    frame Nicolai Fat Argon Pinion color city camo dizy
    fork German:A Flame Wide / Salsa Makwa
    seat post KS lev 150мм
    saddle Ergon SME3 Pro Carbon
    headset Hope
    stem enve mtb 55mm
    handlebar - enve RSR
    grips Ergon GA1 evo
    system Pinion p 1.12
    sprockets 2 x Carbongates CDX 39t
    belt - 122t CDX
    bash guard SRAM Truvativ
    shifter -- pinion
    pedals - Spank oozy
    brakes Formula T1 discs 180мм
    wheelset I9, sapim cx, Nextie 65mm
    tires 45 NRTH Vanhelga/ maxxis Mammoth/ D4





  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepsz View Post
    Can anyone share with me a blueprint (technical drawing) of the 'pinion receiver plate' with all the bolts placements the is attached to the frame? Or somewhere where I can find this information? Also...is it standard for all pinion boxes?
    So I don't have a drawing for the bolts placements. I can however say that the bolt placement for all pinion gearboxes are the same.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

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    So guys the crazy lads over at Zerode did it again and have created the Enduro dream bike for me. Light weight and with a 12 speed Pinion Gear box. Hope it come in different colours though as I have kinda tired of the Neon yellow. Zerode Taniwha - Crankworx Rotorua 2016 - Pinkbike. My only beef with my current bike is that it weighs a ton. Mostly because of the beefy aluminium frame. Also the guys at Ventana seem to have found Pinion as well as they made this rather good looking bike, https://www.facebook.com/ventanausa/...693220/?type=3
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

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    ^Stealth appears to be the other colour option coming out. Also +1 for 8.5x2.5 shock spec. I need to figure out reach on a few other bikes first

    Pinion being able to use Shimano or SRAM trigger would be awesome for myself. Only really like the ODI TLD grips at the moment

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymtber View Post
    Thanks for that. I'm hoping the Trail mountain spirit will come in around 12.5 with some carbon bits and custom wheels. I'd did see somewhere on their website they are around 11.5 with and "old-school" drive line.

    Starting to figure out their website. Ideally i would like to order the frame, gearbox, driveline parts and hubs and build up the rest with the parts i want.
    A 1x drive train is about 1Kg and change. Mine for example is Race Face Next SL + 30T + BB = 515 grams and cassette 480 + derailleur 230 = 1225. Call it 1000 to 1400 if people use more (SRAM XX1 cassette) or less expensive (Shimano XT) components.

    So ... don't delude yourself: the pinion I am sure is great but light it is not. It comes with a 4-5 pounds penalty and to build a 25 pounds full suspension trail bike with it would be almost impossible. 30 (or 13.6 Kg) would be already quite light.

  57. #57
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    Do you have a Pinion gearbox bike, come on in!-img_4631-1.jpgI weighed a Pinion 12 speed and all asociated components and it was well under 1kg difference, closer to half a KG. Weight is a misconception as you're not taking into consideration the extra weight is low and centered acting as balast and not as unsprung weight like a mech. Then there's the leverage to be considered having a mech and cassette so far back on the bike. and to get the similer 600% range, you'd need the massive Sram 1x12 system and still only have 500% range compared to the P12. Even the 9 speed Pinion has 568% range.
    The energy saved being able to shift any time and be in the ideal gear more often is also worth considering.
    and you need to compare weight with a chain guide if you ride a bit more rugged, as the Pinion won't spit the chain off.
    Grip shofter is also okay, as it has chunky shifts and you can change several gears in one action if desired.
    I have the 18 speed in a Nicolai 150mm. 18 is way too many gears, I always double shift, 12 speed should be right on the money.
    Can't wait for the Zerode. My Nicolai with a new 12 speed Pinion is for sale if anyone is keen. I'm in Australia, but our dollar is week so it'd still be cheap for anyone to buy. I'm not selling to get the Zerode, but probably will, I just had a couple of operations and can't ride for a while and am now very in debt and need to pay for operations, so need to sell the bike. I'll keep my 18 speed pinion and put it in a hardtail until I get out of debt.

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    We just received a few P12 gearboxes we will be building frames for. They are not light. Haven't weighed them but probably 4-5lbs for the box without cranks. But as No Skid Marks has pointed out, it is a matter of pros and cons and what you personally want. Personally I think derailleurs suck and shifting sucks with them regardless of how good they have gotten in the last few years. Anytime shifting is something I have wanted for years. There are so many sections on trails where I cannot shift currently but would like too to set myself up better coming out. With the carbon craze everything has become light and expensive. For us, weight isn't everything. I know a guy who recently in a months time, cracked his carbon swing arm. It was warrantied. Then 2 weeks later, cracked the front triangle. Carbon can be great, but all we are doing it taking the material, making it light but not durable. And then charging a lot of money for it.

  59. #59
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    C'mon you should weigh them. And cranks, shifter, tensioner. In grams please.
    I'm going to build these different levels, with steps, and it'll all be carpeted

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    I plan to tonight. They are posted on Pinion's website. But i will weigh it myself.

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    Be curious if the claimed weights are what they are.
    CNC'ed crank or forged?

    I like the 5mm crank arm increases. Wonder when an aftermarket option from Race Face or someone similar comes out?

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    On the Pinion website it says P18 is 2700 grams and the P12 is 2350 grams. It doesn't say if the Shifter and cranks are included

  63. #63
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    Yes it does. The cranks, shifter, spider, chainring, tensioner, ... are all separate from the gearbox.
    scroll to the bottom of this page: P1.12 Gearbox | PINION | DRIVE TECHNOLOGY |
    I'm going to build these different levels, with steps, and it'll all be carpeted

  64. #64
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    It looks like the cables are a real pain to change. Otherwise, I think it's very cool!

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    Glad to hear your comments on P 12 vs P 18, No Skid Marks. I have a touring/trekking bike on order from Pilot where I have chosen P12. My previous bike had a Rohloff hub and even on 14 gears I was double shifting many times. I thought 12 gears would be good enough and rightly so you validate that. Thanks for that feedback.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by uysalt View Post
    No Skid Marks.
    Thanks for letting us know your underwear is clean!

  67. #67
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    I have found an article in German about Pinion gearbox efficiency:

    Tretlagergetriebe Pinion P1.18*? Wirkungsgrad-Messungen an Nabenschaltungen*? Teil*3 | Fahrradzukunft - Ausgabe 20


    It seems that the efficiency of the Pinion gearbox+chain at 50 Watt output is below 90% which is in my opinion quite low value

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPA8580 View Post
    So I don't have a drawing for the bolts placements. I can however say that the bolt placement for all pinion gearboxes are the same.
    Thanks, any chance you can tell me the size of the bolts? looking at pictures on-line I can count about 23 external bolts total, are they all steel? Alloy?

    I'm interested in knowing the exact size of all these external bolts:
    head diameter:
    Lenght:
    and wish ones are M5 or M6...any M8?

    thanks....or to any other person that can help me with this information!

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by slavdo View Post
    I have found an article in German about Pinion gearbox efficiency:

    Tretlagergetriebe Pinion P1.18*? Wirkungsgrad-Messungen an Nabenschaltungen*? Teil*3 | Fahrradzukunft - Ausgabe 20


    It seems that the efficiency of the Pinion gearbox+chain at 50 Watt output is below 90% which is in my opinion quite low value

    It 'looks' like a very interesting article....because I can't read!!!!! Since you might know german apparently...what else relevant they say?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepsz View Post
    It 'looks' like a very interesting article....because I can't read!!!!! Since you might know german apparently...what else relevant they say?
    Use an online translator.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Use an online translator.
    Hehe I know...lazy and don't have time, was hoping for someone else to read for me....ho well....hehe, I'll use the translator and fell good about myself.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepsz View Post
    Hehe I know...lazy and don't have time, was hoping for someone else to read for me....ho well....hehe, I'll use the translator and fell good about myself.
    Oh, I see how it is! I'd have to bill you for my time.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepsz View Post
    It 'looks' like a very interesting article....because I can't read!!!!! Since you might know german apparently...what else relevant they say?
    U understand german a little bit. Basically the graph below is interesting in which efficiency (Wirkungsgrad) of various transmissions is shown. Thin lines in the graph represent efficiency at 50 Watt output and thick ones represent efficiency at 200 Watt output.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Do you have a Pinion gearbox bike, come on in!-pinion-efficiency.jpg  


  74. #74
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    I'm interested in building a frame for a Pinion... Can a current Pinion owner tell me how wide the Pinion is between the mount points? I'm guessing it's in the 70 mm range...

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyCiii View Post
    I'm interested in building a frame for a Pinion... Can a current Pinion owner tell me how wide the Pinion is between the mount points? I'm guessing it's in the 70 mm range...
    Have you tried emailing Pinion for specs. That'll be more accurate than someone trying to measure their frame.

  76. #76
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    Howdy,

    I haven't posted in quite awhile on here, but this thread intrigued me. I have a Musing petrol 5p (german company, got my hands on one that had been imported) with a P1.12 gearbox.

    I purchased this bike to race and train on for this season (and hopefully next) instead of doing the usual "sell the old bike, get this years model through the shop" thing, because I really believe in the gearbox technology, and they seem to be at a point of tipping the scales away from derailers (Sheldon Brown spelling, fyi), at least for my needs. Plus, between a dh bike and a trail bike I destroy 2-3 drivetrains a season, not counting the occasional ripped off derailer. From an engineering and mathematical standpoint, everything is better about a gearbox.

    However, I am already running into issues. I knew that the weak point of the bike would be that tensioner, and I have already cracked it (weird hit when the tire slid off a wood bridge, wasn't even on the bike). I have contacted Pinion but they don't seem to A) communicate well in English (I'm going to ask if they would prefer French, or get my research adviser, who is german, to type an email for me! ) and B) Have told me to go to a bike shop dealer, which I already explained is non-existent within several thousand miles of me.

    So I have a few questions for y'all:

    1) What have you done for spare parts? The box seems pretty reliable but I need to carry some spares if I am relying on this thing as a race bike, since no shops carry parts. I have seen BikeMan has some stuff, perhaps they can order other things they don't have in stock (going to call them on Monday.)

    2) Looking at the tensioner, I have a few ideas to make it better. I may take the bracket off, JB weld the crack, then wrap it in fiberglass or carbon and vacuum cure it, then shape it back up. If it works, I would do it to a fresh one as well, to have it when the repaired one breaks

    Also, I am thinking about just throwing a Yess or Paul tensioner on the rear. Any downsides to this, other than possibly a little more chain movement? edit: Also less chain wrap on the front ring. I could see that being an issue

    3) What the hell tool do you use to get the chainring off? Pinion sells one, but it looks like I could use an adjustable spanner (Park Tool SPA-6, for example)? Anyone know?

    Anyway, I am pretty psyched on this bike and am looking forward to hopefully giving the gearbox some free exposure by racing with it and riding it on trails and bike parks around the rocky mountain region. I really think if people saw it and rode it and saw what the bike is capable of, they'd be sold on the idea, at least.Do you have a Pinion gearbox bike, come on in!-petrol5p_c.jpg
    Last edited by EnduroRacer128; 04-17-2016 at 04:28 PM.

  77. #77
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    Hi, as for the pinion spare parts try to have a look here (unfortunately in German only):
    Pinion Ersatzteile | bike-prof.de

  78. #78
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    I've had to replace the tensioner once already. The original model had a number of holes drilled into the square shouldered bolt for the spring to fit into. Riding lots of trails with loose rocks I'd regularly have rocks hit the downtube and some have obviously hit the tensioner too. I couldn;t get the bolt on its own and had to buy a whole tensioner.

    I run a Yess ETR-D on my singlespeed and it sometimes still attracts sticks like a derailleur. I think it's either rocks hitting the Pinion tensioner or sticks in the Yess tensioner but they should both work. Worst case you could really confuse people and run an old derailleur as a tensioner!

    Pinion list spares on their accessories page... ACCESSORIES | PINION | DRIVE TECHNOLOGY |

  79. #79
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    Any advice on getting the chainring off? I don't want to screw anything up but it looks like I can just use a BB spanner tool if I don't want to order Pinion's fancy one?


    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979 View Post
    I've had to replace the tensioner once already. The original model had a number of holes drilled into the square shouldered bolt for the spring to fit into. Riding lots of trails with loose rocks I'd regularly have rocks hit the downtube and some have obviously hit the tensioner too. I couldn;t get the bolt on its own and had to buy a whole tensioner.

    I run a Yess ETR-D on my singlespeed and it sometimes still attracts sticks like a derailleur. I think it's either rocks hitting the Pinion tensioner or sticks in the Yess tensioner but they should both work. Worst case you could really confuse people and run an old derailleur as a tensioner!

    Pinion list spares on their accessories page... ACCESSORIES | PINION | DRIVE TECHNOLOGY |
    Cool I assumed there would be no issues running a rear tensioner, I just wanted to make sure. I've used them enough on hardtails to know they can catch... I ordered a Paul Melvin to try, then at least I have something when the tensioner inevitably finishes breaking haha.

    [Edit: Melvin is going to be a pain with the Pinion, since the max rear cog is 20t... I guess I'll see what I can do]

    Oh yeah I know how to set that up in a pinch... But I definitely prefer to save it for more dire circumstances!

    Yep I've combed their whole site, I know what you *can* get, you just have to order it through am authorized dealer (or maybe not, Pinion could only tell me that they don't deal with "end customer"...)

    Quote Originally Posted by slavdo View Post
    Hi, as for the pinion spare parts try to have a look here (unfortunately in German only):
    Pinion Ersatzteile | bike-prof.de
    Thanks, that might actually help quite a bit!

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  80. #80
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    cool bike enduroracer, I saw it for sale on pinkbike and was curious about it myself. I'm pretty intrigued by the soon-to-be-released Zerode enduro bike with the pinion gearbox so definitely interested in your experience. I'm in the states too so the support issue is a real concern. the Zerode relies on the same tensioner hanging down low in the line of fire. besides damage, it's a bit concerning just from a chain-retention perspective, especially for a race bike. doesn't look like there would be an easy way to mount a traditional chainguide on these bikes.

    other than that whole issue, how do you find the shifting when climbing? from what i've read it sounds like shifting under load is one of the weaker aspects of the gearbox's performance. have you put your bike on a scale? it seems like the pinion adds 3-4 pounds over a midrange drivetrain. what bike were you riding before this one? how would you compare them so far?

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardboiled View Post
    cool bike enduroracer, I saw it for sale on pinkbike and was curious about it myself. I'm pretty intrigued by the soon-to-be-released Zerode enduro bike with the pinion gearbox so definitely interested in your experience. I'm in the states too so the support issue is a real concern. the Zerode relies on the same tensioner hanging down low in the line of fire. besides damage, it's a bit concerning just from a chain-retention perspective, especially for a race bike. doesn't look like there would be an easy way to mount a traditional chainguide on these bikes.

    other than that whole issue, how do you find the shifting when climbing? from what i've read it sounds like shifting under load is one of the weaker aspects of the gearbox's performance. have you put your bike on a scale? it seems like the pinion adds 3-4 pounds over a midrange drivetrain. what bike were you riding before this one? how would you compare them so far?
    I replaced a Pivot Firebird with the Nicolai Helius AC Pinion. They both pedal about the same. Shifting to an easier gear under load takes a little getting used to. Normally you'd slightly decrease pressure on the pedals when shifting to an easier gear using a derailleur, it's just more pronounced with the Pinion gearbox. Once used to it there isn't an issue. Being able to shift without pedalling is definitely a bigger advantage than the shifting under load is a disadvantage. I don't notice the weight until later in the ride when i'm getting tired. Better fitness would counter that though!

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    Be curious if the claimed weights are what they are.
    CNC'ed crank or forged?

    I like the 5mm crank arm increases. Wonder when an aftermarket option from Race Face or someone similar comes out?
    Some brand is making carbon cranks for them.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by uysalt View Post
    Glad to hear your comments on P 12 vs P 18, No Skid Marks. I have a touring/trekking bike on order from Pilot where I have chosen P12. My previous bike had a Rohloff hub and even on 14 gears I was double shifting many times. I thought 12 gears would be good enough and rightly so you validate that. Thanks for that feedback.
    No worries. I'd say with the 12 you'll still have close enough incriments to get ideal cadence. More range than your Rohloff was.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Thanks for letting us know your underwear is clean!
    Been using that name for over a decade on several forums, you're the first to comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slavdo View Post
    I have found an article in German about Pinion gearbox efficiency:

    Tretlagergetriebe Pinion P1.18*? Wirkungsgrad-Messungen an Nabenschaltungen*? Teil*3 | Fahrradzukunft - Ausgabe 20


    It seems that the efficiency of the Pinion gearbox+chain at 50 Watt output is below 90% which is in my opinion quite low value
    Guessing that's a brand new one. You have to remember you can get in the right gear easier and more often, so your energy loss at the end of a ride is less than what those numbers alone will tell you.

  86. #86
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    The bolts that hold it together are aluminum. Use a torque wrench if you're ever fool enough to play with them, or you'll pop the head off.
    Quote Originally Posted by andrepsz View Post
    Thanks, any chance you can tell me the size of the bolts? looking at pictures on-line I can count about 23 external bolts total, are they all steel? Alloy?

    I'm interested in knowing the exact size of all these external bolts:
    head diameter:
    Lenght:
    and wish ones are M5 or M6...any M8?

    thanks....or to any other person that can help me with this information!

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardboiled View Post
    chain-retention perspective, especially for a race bike. doesn't look like there would be an easy way to mount a traditional chainguide on these bikes.

    other than that whole issue, how do you find the shifting when climbing? from what i've read it sounds like shifting under load is one of the weaker aspects of the gearbox's performance. have you put your bike on a scale? it seems like the pinion adds 3-4 pounds over a midrange drivetrain. what bike were you riding before this one? how would you compare them so far?
    It's not really a chain retention device. It's just to take up chain slack and allow chain growth. The chain is running straight like a single speed, so no need for it to derail like with a mech pulling the chain to the side so it want's to feed off the chain ring.
    You can shift under load, it just won't change until you back off pedaling, it's about the same as with a mech really, maybe a touch more, but you can shift multiple gears and more importantly you learn to shift any time you're not pedaling, like corners, rock strewn tracks, in the air etc.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Skid Marks View Post
    Guessing that's a brand new one. You have to remember you can get in the right gear easier and more often, so your energy loss at the end of a ride is less than what those numbers alone will tell you.
    No it's not a brand new. Article says that the Pinion gearbox had intensively been ridden for about a year before the test of efficiency was carried out.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Skid Marks View Post
    Some brand is making carbon cranks for them.
    I take it those will be coming to market soon then?

    I'd love LOVE an X.0 or even a XTR style trigger shifter! (I'm partial to X.0 as it is on multiple bikes, but XTR/Saint has been on the DH bike)

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by slavdo View Post
    No it's not a brand new. Article says that the Pinion gearbox had intensively been ridden for about a year before the test of efficiency was carried out.
    Oh, still a storm in a tea cup IMO. I just built up a bike with a mech (X9 10 speed)and it's a piece of junk compared to the Pinion. I'd take the Pinion over a mech on any ride and know I'd save energy during that ride. Tyre pressure makes as much difference, and I don't bother making sure I have higher pressure for efficiency. It's still interesting to see those numbers. I just think all the other bennefits of a gearbox make them more efficient and less effort in other ways.
    How much energy does it take to move a mech through the gearts Vs a gearbox, how much energy is wated soft pedalling gear changes, or lunging forward to unweigh the gears to change, or thinking about when you can pedal through a change in rocks or corners. Or how much is lost putting up with the wrong gear because you cant get a change done. How much is lost with a slightly out of tune mech or prematurely worn or bent chain and so on. Most of those are really small things, but the big ones add up to more than 5-10% less efficiency in a lab IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardboiled View Post
    cool bike enduroracer, I saw it for sale on pinkbike and was curious about it myself. I'm pretty intrigued by the soon-to-be-released Zerode enduro bike with the pinion gearbox so definitely interested in your experience. I'm in the states too so the support issue is a real concern. the Zerode relies on the same tensioner hanging down low in the line of fire. besides damage, it's a bit concerning just from a chain-retention perspective, especially for a race bike. doesn't look like there would be an easy way to mount a traditional chainguide on these bikes.

    other than that whole issue, how do you find the shifting when climbing? from what i've read it sounds like shifting under load is one of the weaker aspects of the gearbox's performance. have you put your bike on a scale? it seems like the pinion adds 3-4 pounds over a midrange drivetrain. what bike were you riding before this one? how would you compare them so far?
    Wow, the conversation has definitely taken off! I will offer an in depth reply very soon, I just haven't had time to sit down and answer your questions in what I feel would be an adequate fashion!

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by EnduroRacer128 View Post
    Howdy,

    I haven't posted in quite awhile on here, but this thread intrigued me. I have a Musing petrol 5p (german company, got my hands on one that had been imported) with a P1.12 gearbox.

    I purchased this bike to race and train on for this season (and hopefully next) instead of doing the usual "sell the old bike, get this years model through the shop" thing, because I really believe in the gearbox technology, and they seem to be at a point of tipping the scales away from derailers (Sheldon Brown spelling, fyi), at least for my needs. Plus, between a dh bike and a trail bike I destroy 2-3 drivetrains a season, not counting the occasional ripped off derailer. From an engineering and mathematical standpoint, everything is better about a gearbox.

    However, I am already running into issues. I knew that the weak point of the bike would be that tensioner, and I have already cracked it (weird hit when the tire slid off a wood bridge, wasn't even on the bike). I have contacted Pinion but they don't seem to A) communicate well in English (I'm going to ask if they would prefer French, or get my research adviser, who is german, to type an email for me! ) and B) Have told me to go to a bike shop dealer, which I already explained is non-existent within several thousand miles of me.

    So I have a few questions for y'all:

    1) What have you done for spare parts? The box seems pretty reliable but I need to carry some spares if I am relying on this thing as a race bike, since no shops carry parts. I have seen BikeMan has some stuff, perhaps they can order other things they don't have in stock (going to call them on Monday.)

    2) Looking at the tensioner, I have a few ideas to make it better. I may take the bracket off, JB weld the crack, then wrap it in fiberglass or carbon and vacuum cure it, then shape it back up. If it works, I would do it to a fresh one as well, to have it when the repaired one breaks

    Also, I am thinking about just throwing a Yess or Paul tensioner on the rear. Any downsides to this, other than possibly a little more chain movement? edit: Also less chain wrap on the front ring. I could see that being an issue

    3) What the hell tool do you use to get the chainring off? Pinion sells one, but it looks like I could use an adjustable spanner (Park Tool SPA-6, for example)? Anyone know?

    Anyway, I am pretty psyched on this bike and am looking forward to hopefully giving the gearbox some free exposure by racing with it and riding it on trails and bike parks around the rocky mountain region. I really think if people saw it and rode it and saw what the bike is capable of, they'd be sold on the idea, at least.Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi EnduroRacer,

    Congrats on the awesome bike.

    1. So I haven't ridden the bike as much as I wanted to, to be honest job is getting in the way and well my country sucks as it is flat. As for a spare tensioner, there are a couple of online shops you can go to one of them being: Pinion Ersatzteile | bike-prof.de. I have to say that I am a bit disappointed with Pinion not offering these parts from there webpage as it would make things a lot easier. Also if they do chose to do all through resellers make sure they post these on the web.

    2. Sure about the tensioner in the back though. I know Pinion experimented with this in the early stages. I wonder why they never looked at putting it at the top instead of the bottom. I have had a couple unlucky trip off course, but never damaged the tensioner (knocks on woods).

    3. The tool you want is on the webpage I gave you earlier.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

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    Hi guys, a lot of discussion going on which is why I created the thread in the first place. I'm already looking to buy a new bike also with a Pinion gearbox. I think the Zerode is going to be my next one as it will be a lot lighter than the one I have now.

    @hardboiled I have had the bike for a while now and I have to say that yes the shifting does take a little getting used. The major thing being shifting under power which can be done, but not under a lot. However having said that I have ruined my fair share of chains by shifting under too much so.... As for the weight, here is where my experience is not so relevant as I went from a hardtail to a full suspension AM/EN bike, so there is a obvious weight difference. But I must say that the taking her uphill even with the weight which has always been the thing I struggle with the most (read: to little exercise), I must say it's not that bad. @Hardboiled what kind of bike do you have today?

    @Enduroracer curious how much does your bike weigh? Mine weighs in at a hefty 36 pounds
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

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    Btw has anybody else had problem with the shifter moving while shifting. To be honest I think the clamping mechanism could use a rethink. Right now its a two bolt system which pushes on a piece of aluminium. The bolts are tiny and the heads get bust pretty quickly, just ordered new ones today.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPA8580 View Post
    Btw has anybody else had problem with the shifter moving while shifting. To be honest I think the clamping mechanism could use a rethink. Right now its a two bolt system which pushes on a piece of aluminium. The bolts are tiny and the heads get bust pretty quickly, just ordered new ones today.
    I'd love to wrap my head around that....I like designing stuff

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPA8580 View Post
    Btw has anybody else had problem with the shifter moving while shifting. To be honest I think the clamping mechanism could use a rethink. Right now its a two bolt system which pushes on a piece of aluminium. The bolts are tiny and the heads get bust pretty quickly, just ordered new ones today.
    No problems with the shifter moving.

    Pinion did just email out a survey in their latest newsletter. Tell them what you think.

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    Do you have the link to that survey, I did sign up but never received it.
    Pinion Gearbox - I love doing maintenance on my bike. But I love doing less maintenance on my bike even more.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPA8580 View Post
    Do you have the link to that survey, I did sign up but never received it.
    No, sorry. I deleted it straight after I did the survey and can't find anything on their website.

  99. #99
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    Can someone settle a question a mate and I have been kicking around; are you able to shift into a harder gear with tension on the cranks? Or are all gear changes required to unload the crank before it will click into place?

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaf View Post
    Can someone settle a question a mate and I have been kicking around; are you able to shift into a harder gear with tension on the cranks? Or are all gear changes required to unload the crank before it will click into place?
    Yes, you can change into a harder gear under load. It's always been a smooth change to a harder gear for me.

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