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  1. #401
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    Budget XX1

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I don't know anything about the leonardi but I can tell you the 10 speed 11-42 will not take out the Sram system. Where do you come up with $1500 you can set up an x01 for about about $650 which is not that much more for an XTR system plus the 42t cog. I tried out a 42 and in no way is it even in the same league as a 10-42 setup.
    XO1 RD: $269
    XO1 shifter: $139
    XO1 cassette: $399
    XD driver: $80-145
    11-sp chain: $58
    Total: $845-1010, minimum. More if your hub is not convertible and/or you want the wide/narrow chainring.

    If you already have a 10-speed drivetrain, $90-100 for a 42t conversion cog. Done.
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  2. #402
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    Budget XX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    Oh my ... it is what SRAM should have done from day one instead of claiming a revolution and charging $1500 for it. But that's it: it is nice to see that SRAM 10x42 is basically dead. 10 speed 11x42 and 11x44 or Leonardi 9x42 will take it out of the market
    I have never seen, or would want, 9, 10, or 11 tooth chainrings. 9/10/11x42 gearing is more suited to motorcycles.
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  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    Oh my ... it is what SRAM should have done from day one instead of claiming a revolution and charging $1500 for it. But that's it: it is nice to see that SRAM 10x42 is basically dead. 10 speed 11x42 and 11x44 or Leonardi 9x42 will take it out of the market
    I highly doubt that the 42t cog will take out XX1. The shifting of the 11-42 is nowhere near that of the SRAM setup.

    I'm using the OneUp 42t...and for what it cost me...I do think its a cost effective way to for a wide range 1x...but the shifting is nowhere near as smooth, crisp, or fast as XX1/01.

    Don't get delusional and think it'll replace the SRAM 1x system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    XO1 RD: $269
    XO1 shifter: $139
    XO1 cassette: $399
    XD driver: $80-145
    11-sp chain: $58
    Total: $845-1010, minimum. More if your hub is not convertible and/or you want the wide/narrow chainring.

    If you already have a 10-speed drivetrain, $90-100 for a 42t conversion cog. Done.
    I guess there are retail shoppers and smart shoppers. I just purchased a x01 cassette, der, shifter, and chain for $650 plus $60 driver.. Yes I did forget the driver for my initial post. The reason I just made that purchase was the 42t conversion was nowhere near the performance of my strait up 10 speed.

    I'll agree it's not cheap but it's not $1500 either.

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    Oh my ... it is what SRAM should have done from day one instead of claiming a revolution and charging $1500 for it. But that's it: it is nice to see that SRAM 10x42 is basically dead. 10 speed 11x42 and 11x44 or Leonardi 9x42 will take it out of the market
    I'd be absolutely shocked if that actually happens. People with the cash for XX1 aren't going to be happy with the compromise of any 11x42 aftermarket solution as currently offered (ratio gap, b-screw adjustment/chain wrap, aluminum wear rate etc).

    For those of us on the SLX/X7/XT/X9 budget level, these 42t cogs are interesting if you've already got a full drivetrain in hand. However, when SRAM inevitably releases a full 10x42 X9/X7 group, I'm guessing few people would go this route when looking to buy a new group set.

  6. #406
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    Budget XX1

    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    I'd be absolutely shocked if that actually happens. People with the cash for XX1 aren't going to be happy with the compromise of any 11x42 aftermarket solution as currently offered (ratio gap, b-screw adjustment/chain wrap, aluminum wear rate etc).

    For those of us on the SLX/X7/XT/X9 budget level, these 42t cogs are interesting if you've already got a full drivetrain in hand. However, when SRAM inevitably releases a full 10x42 X9/X7 group, I'm guessing few people would go this route when looking to buy a new group set.
    Stop misusing the "x"! It is used for the gear ratio, separating the chainring and cog, in that order. Not cassette size.

    Gearing range of a cassette is expressed as 10-42.
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  7. #407
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    Budget XX1

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I guess there are retail shoppers and smart shoppers. I just purchased a x01 cassette, der, shifter, and chain for $650 plus $60 driver.. Yes I did forget the driver for my initial post. The reason I just made that purchase was the 42t conversion was nowhere near the performance of my strait up 10 speed.

    I'll agree it's not cheap but it's not $1500 either.
    Not realistic pricing.
    You payed barely over wholesale.

    And I agree with car_nut. There currently is no "budget" 1x11. Hopefully the cost will be more reasonable if/when it comes to the X9 level. XO1/XO RDs and shifters are at least twice the cost of X9, and cassettes 4 times, with little significant performance change.
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  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Stop misusing the "x"! It is used for the gear ratio, separating the chainring and cog, in that order. Not cassette size.

    Gearing range of a cassette is expressed as 10-42.
    I know that, and that's how I normally write it. However, I also knew that after your reply to Davide it would drive you completely nuts

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Not realistic pricing.
    You payed barely over wholesale.

    And I agree with car_nut. There currently is no "budget" 1x11. Hopefully the cost will be more reasonable if/when it comes to the X9 level. XO1/XO RDs and shifters are at least twice the cost of X9, and cassettes 4 times, with little significant performance change.
    Kinda doughbt that the XX9/XO9 will be 12 the cost than that of it's predecessor's, do you
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    30T with an 11-42 is awfully nice on a 29er so far for me. I think I'll do my best to be blissfully ignorant of whatever improvement I'd see with a SRAM 1x11 drivetrain.

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    Budget XX1

    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Kinda doughbt that the XX9/XO9 will be 12 the cost than that of it's predecessor's, do you
    I have no clue of what you were trying to say.
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  12. #412
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    Re: Budget XX1

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    I have no clue of what you were trying to say.
    "1/2 the cost of XO1 for an X09 setup"

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  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    I'd be absolutely shocked if that actually happens. People with the cash for XX1 aren't going to be happy with the compromise of any 11x42 aftermarket solution as currently offered (ratio gap, b-screw adjustment/chain wrap, aluminum wear rate etc).
    1142 is a very small compromise, if there was a 1144 there would be no compromise at all.

    SRAM were very smart in their marketing because their cassette has a 10 cog followed by a 12. Now 12 to 10 is a good gap, and they could claim that it was an overdrive,

    But 11 to 10 is not a big gap. What a 10 cog gives you is 1/2 of a gear in respect to 11. Look at ratios for 10, 11 and 13 cogs with 32 chainring: 3.20 2.91 2.46, a solid .45 drop 13 to 11, but just .29 11 to 10. It gets worse the smaller the front ring is (ratios are 2.80 2.55 2.15 with a 28 front ) The only way to get a real overdrive starting from an 11, is to go 9 like Leonardi is doing.

    If you have a 44 cog compare 1042 (28 chainring) vs 1144 (with 30 chainring) you get basically the same spread 2.80 to .67 (1042) vs 2.73 to .68 (1144). But you get it for dimes compared to the idiotic amount SRAM has shoveled down the throat of unwise MTBikers.
    Last edited by Davide; 02-10-2014 at 12:32 AM.

  14. #414
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    Budget XX1

    A 44? The 42s barely fit.

    I just switched to 1x10 (11-36 with 28 CR), and love it. I'm not a power rider and we have some steep climbs, so I'm considering a 40 or 42. I'd like to get up to a 30 or 32 and still have the low gear. The other option of a 9 or 10 high gear would help too.

    Is it that hard to release a 10-40 or 9-42 wide spread 10 speed cassette? My guess would be the manufacturing wouldn't be the issue, but the potential to pull sales from xx1 would be.

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Not realistic pricing.
    SRAM XG-1195 (X01) 11sp X-Dome/Glide cassette, 10-42t from BikeBling.com

    SRAM X01 11 Speed Trigger Shifter | Chain Reaction Cycles

    SRAM X01 11 Speed Rear Mech | Chain Reaction Cycles

    SRAM XX1 11 Speed Chain 118 links from ModernBike.com

    5 minutes of interweb shopping = $684 with shipping and I did a little better.

    Like I said still not a cheap option but my original post was arguing the $1500 price tag.

  16. #416
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    Budget XX1

    Missing cranks and chain. Easily another 300.

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    Budget XX1

    Cranks are not required, just a chainring.

  18. #418
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    Budget XX1

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip Clemmons View Post
    Cranks are not required, just a chainring.
    The point was to compare systems.

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    Budget XX1

    I thought the point was to do a "budget" xx1. That to me means not spending 250 on a crank when my current crank works fine.

  20. #420
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    Budget XX1

    I'm responding to an exchange between Shiggy and bdundee.

    edit: and even so, I misspoke. I meant for the two items to be an XD free hub and 11 speed chain.

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  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    I'm responding to an exchange between Shiggy and bdundee.

    edit: and even so, I misspoke. I meant for the two items to be an XD free hub and 11 speed chain.

    It's hard to mtbr and watch Walking Dead at the same time.
    I didn't need buy a crank or ring when I switched from the budget to the xo1 because the budget set up requires the same for a 1x setup and being I was already running the budget system I had said parts.

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    Budget XX1

    I have no intent of getting in the middle of their discussion lol, BUT even Shiggy didn't mention/price the crank. Bdundee left out the chain and the driver.

    It's pricey regardless with the derailer and cassette costs. No budget way around those items. I guess that's what Shiggy was saying. Bdundee found better prices, but still no cheap.

    I spent < 250 for a x9 1x10 and love it, but "maybe" could use more range. Too early to tell, but great upgrade for a fair price fosho!

  23. #423
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    Budget XX1

    Yeah - I edited my last post to reveal my mistake.

    I think if I was building a new bike with new everything - wheels/drivetrain - I could see going XX1/X01, but the One Up/Wolf Tooth solution is legit for "upgrading" purposes. I've yet to spin out on my 11t.

  24. #424
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    Yeah I posted the wrong link for the chain sorry now it's fixed. X01 and xx1 is crazy priced that I am not defending but when someone throws out a $1500 price tag.....

    Just for reference I tried the budget thing and didn't really care for it but I'm sure for some it will be great.

    Edit plus the driver but still not the $1500.
    This was the original post I was debuting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    Oh my ... it is what SRAM should have done from day one instead of claiming a revolution and charging $1500 for it. But that's it: it is nice to see that SRAM 10x42 is basically dead. 10 speed 11x42 and 11x44 or Leonardi 9x42 will take it out of the market

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Yeah I posted the wrong link for the chain sorry now it's fixed. X01 and xx1 is crazy priced that I am not defending but when someone throws out a $1500 price tag.....

    Just for reference I tried the budget thing and didn't really care for it but I'm sure for some it will be great.
    People get hung up on SRAM's pricing, but I don't think it's that bad. When you compare it with 10 speed XX and X0 offerings, the the upcharge for the 11 speed isn't much at all. Someone did this several pages back. It seems like a lot because the vast majority of people are running X7 and X9 level stuff because that's what comes on affordable completes. The people who can pay for XX1 don't come on mtbr and complain about its pricing.

  26. #426
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    Plus I sold my XTR 10 speed bits for $350.

    So $750 total with xd driver
    -350 xtr parts
    -90 not needing 42t cog
    X01 cost me $310 more than the budget system.

    Still not cheap but I'm happier and really that's all that matters.

  27. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastBanana View Post
    "1/2 the cost of XO1 for an X09 setup"

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  28. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    1142 is a very small compromise, if there was a 1144 there would be no compromise at all.
    It would take an 11-46 to equal the 10-42


    SRAM were very smart in their marketing because their cassette has a 10 cog followed by a 12. Now 12 to 10 is a good gap, and they could claim that it was an overdrive,

    But 11 to 10 is not a big gap. What a 10 cog gives you is 1/2 of a gear in respect to 11. Look at ratios for 10, 11 and 13 cogs with 32 chainring: 3.20 2.91 2.46, a solid .45 drop 13 to 11, but just .29 11 to 10. It gets worse the smaller the front ring is (ratios are 2.80 2.55 2.15 with a 28 front ) The only way to get a real overdrive starting from an 11, is to go 9 like Leonardi is doing.
    You need to compare the % change in ratios, not the absolute number. For example, the 21t-19t shift in the middle of an XT771 cassette will feel like the same as an 11t-10t shift. Generally speaking SRAM/Shimano shoot for a ~12% change in ratio per gear. That gets difficult to hit when you get to the smaller cogs since you can't add half a tooth. A 10 to 11 shift is 10%, a 10 to 12 is 20% Neither is perfect but the 10 to 11 is certainly not "1/2 a gear", especially when riding at speed.

    But you get it for dimes compared to the idiotic amount SRAM has shoveled down the throat of unwise MTBikers.
    I really don't understand this statement. XX1 is no more expensive than XX. It's super weight weenie top end stuff. I'll never own it and neither will most. Those who've bought it have chosen to spend their disposable income in that way. Good for them.

    Your original statement is that these 42t cogs would end SRAM's 10-42. I'm saying not likely because those who can justify XX1 pricing wouldn't sacrifice the weight, shifting performance and better ratio spread for saving $$. SRAM will release this in X9/X7 soon and the 42t cogs will likely accelerate that release which is great. When that happens, I'm betting few would opt for buying a 10 speed group and 42t over just getting the 10-42 from SRAM.

  29. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    It would take an 11-46 to equal the 10-42

    You need to compare the % change in ratios, not the absolute number.
    Wrong, the % charge in ratios is meaningless. You have to compare cassettes in respect to the chain rings that you can actually use, not imaginary set ups.

    It is very simple math: a 1144 with a 30 front is identical to a 1042 with a 28, and 1142 is very close. The only cassette that gives a real advantage is Leonardi 942.

    • 1142 x 30 => 2.73 to .71 (aftermarket for now $50-90)
    • 1144 x 30 => 2.73 to .68 (aftermarket for now)
    • 1042 x 28 => 2.80 to .67 (SRAM $1000-1500)
    • 942 x 28 => 3.1 to .67 (Leonardi $400+$80 for hub conversion)

    No matter how you turn it around 1142 loses at most half a gear in respect to 1042. 1142 and 1144 have the big advantage of working with current standards, and avoid the 10 or 9 cogs.

  30. #430
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    With all gear ratios and cost aside the budget system is still not that great. I can foresee b-screw issues plus the shifting is ok not super. My experience is with Shimano only so YMMV.

    I have been running a 26 11-36 and now with the xo1 (or budget) I'm hopping I can go up to a 28t in the front. Just saying everyone's riding and terrain is different and sometimes even 1/2 a gear can make a difference between riding and pushing.

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    I have the same issue (on and off) getting gears on the GL 40t to drop from 3rd to 4th if everything else is optimized. Running 32T Wolftooth and XT medium cage rear der. That said, xx1 is spendy and the XD free hub alone makes me not want it, plus adds an additional cost. Not saying I'm totally against it and there is a lot if good to xx1 but not currently thrilled about The approach... Especially since I have a Chris King Wheelset so it's not an option....

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    Hello!

    I am having trouble fitting the 29-42 Leonardi Racing for Shimano. The surface of the silver thing where the gear cable attaches touches the 42T. It does so irregardless of what I do with the B tension screw. I have this derailleur:
    Shimano XT M786 Shadow+ 10 Speed Rear Mech
    Black, Long

    Any suggestions?

    Pictures with the normal 36T cassette: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i7gkqhrfz3qezbu/-UP9st4zMP

    Couldn't upload pics from my Android device.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackeyes69 View Post
    Hello!

    I am having trouble fitting the 29-42 Leonardi Racing for Shimano. The surface of the silver thing where the gear cable attaches touches the 42T. It does so irregardless of what I do with the B tension screw.

    Any suggestions?
    From my experience, there is something bent. That could be:
    - derailleur hanger (most often)
    - derailleur bracket (the part that attaches to the hanger, it looks fine for yours)
    - derailleur at core/paralelogram (after a serious impact, not your case as I see in pictures)

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    Good job! Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by catalin74 View Post
    From my experience, there is something bent. That could be:
    - derailleur hanger (most often)
    - derailleur bracket (the part that attaches to the hanger, it looks fine for yours)
    - derailleur at core/paralelogram (after a serious impact, not your case as I see in pictures)
    Thanks. Gonna look into it. A longer hanger should be able to clear the mech from the cog.

  35. #435
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    Here's another 40t and 42t option. Russell from Andersen Machining is making them now. He was one of the first out with 20t granny gear, 30t middle ring and 40t big ring options that lots of folks around here ran with great success.

    Product Info | Andersen Machine's Blog

  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechniKal View Post
    Here's another 40t and 42t option. Russell from Andersen Machining is making them now. He was one of the first out with 20t granny gear, 30t middle ring and 40t big ring options that lots of folks around here ran with great success.

    Product Info | Andersen Machine's Blog
    So how is he accomplishing such broad spectrum compatibility? Seems like E13 and others are having issues and making brand specific cogs, and his is a do it all.

    That definitely has some appeal to me, but always nervous of being a first time adopter.

    Also, how long are we suspecting these cogs to last? I figure I won't be using this gear all that often, so in theory they make it through 2-3 cassettes (provided a keep my chain stretch under control, etc).

    Just thinking out loud, but curious to see what others think!
    GG Smash

  37. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    Also, how long are we suspecting these cogs to last? I figure I won't be using this gear all that often, so in theory they make it through 2-3 cassettes (provided a keep my chain stretch under control, etc).
    I use that 42t a lot - I have a 34t up front on a 30lb 26" bike and it is my most common gear! - maybe you're a stronger rider (probably) or trails aren't as steep, but I think you will be surprised how often you use it if it's there - I still am using the good ol' General Lee - 1.5 years and 2 cassettes later it is still going and the teeth look pretty good - it is not flawless shifting but it ain't bad for a $150 conversion

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    I use that 42t a lot - I have a 34t up front on a 30lb 26" bike and it is my most common gear! - maybe you're a stronger rider (probably) or trails aren't as steep, but I think you will be surprised how often you use it if it's there - I still am using the good ol' General Lee - 1.5 years and 2 cassettes later it is still going and the teeth look pretty good - it is not flawless shifting but it ain't bad for a $150 conversion
    So I ended up doing 1x10 with a spiderless 30t ring in the front, and a 36x11 rear cassette. My 30front 36 rear gives me the exact same ratio as your 34 front, 42 rear. So my conversion to 40 or 42t with give me a bit more low for my trips to the mountains....but I can definitely see why you end up using your 42t ring a lot. The million dollar question is "will a lower gear really help me get any climbs I am not getting." I suspect the answer is no. My bike is right around the 31# mark pending a fork upgrade, so similar weight in the bikes.

    Thanks for the info on the wear/lifespan. That will make me feel better knowing I can get a few years outta it.
    GG Smash

  39. #439
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    I'm running a 30T front and 42T in the rear. I don't use the 42T often...but on some climbs...it's the difference between pushing and pedaling.

  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    So how is he accomplishing such broad spectrum compatibility? Seems like E13 and others are having issues and making brand specific cogs, and his is a do it all.

    That definitely has some appeal to me, but always nervous of being a first time adopter.

    Also, how long are we suspecting these cogs to last? I figure I won't be using this gear all that often, so in theory they make it through 2-3 cassettes (provided a keep my chain stretch under control, etc).

    Just thinking out loud, but curious to see what others think!
    I accomplishing such broad spectrum compatibility with lots of high speed camera footage of lots of different prototypes, analyzing the footage, 1 farme at a time.

    As for longevity, I Am using the same, non-symmetrical, tooth profile as my chainrings that has proven longevity. I have recently worn out a 37t nine speed conversion ring that has been on my bike since Jan. 2010. That ring outlasted 2 cassette and on it third when it failed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRUZED View Post
    I accomplishing such broad spectrum compatibility with lots of high speed camera footage of lots of different prototypes, analyzing the footage, 1 farme at a time.

    As for longevity, I Am using the same, non-symmetrical, tooth profile as my chainrings that has proven longevity. I have recently worn out a 37t nine speed conversion ring that has been on my bike since Jan. 2010. That ring outlasted 2 cassette and on it third when it failed.

    Russell
    Andersen Machine
    Customer service and answers directly in the forums...I'm sold! Order being placed now.

    Russell, what are your thoughts on which ring to remove when installing your cog? (1070cassette 11-36, x9 type 2 der) 17t? 11t? I don't really want to give up my 11t, but if you say that is best I shall!
    GG Smash

  42. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    Customer service and answers directly in the forums...I'm sold! Order being placed now.

    Russell, what are your thoughts on which ring to remove when installing your cog? (1070cassette 11-36, x9 type 2 der) 17t? 11t? I don't really want to give up my 11t, but if you say that is best I shall!
    That is a personal preference. Personally I would keep the 11t and drop the 17t for the range.

  43. #443
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    Too may pages to slog through to find what I am looking for at this point.....

    I'm have a shifting issues having just installed my 42t Wolf tooth.

    Shifts in and out of the 42t just fine.

    Where I am having trouble downshifting to my smaller rings. Upshifting seems just fine.

    Not easily getting into 11t if it goes into that gear at all
    Getting no response or delayed response in the 15,19,21 range.

    Before I mess around with my upper/lower limits, wanted to see if anyone had the same thing and what they did to remedy it.

    Thanks for the help

  44. #444
    Ride On
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    Adjusting stops aren't going to correct slow shifts. Make sure the stops are at the correct upper and lower limits. Minimize b-tension as much as possible. Ensure your micro cable adjustment (at the shifter) is at the mid setting to allow for enough adjustment range when fiddling with set-up. With the chain in the smallest cog pull the cable taught gently and tighten it down. Move through your shifting and use the micro adjustment to fine tune. There will be some compromise, it will either down shift quickly and up slowly or the reverse. Pick your demon and go ride!

  45. #445
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    Thanks....appreciate the help. I'll give it a shot. I already feel the stiffer downshifts....I'll take it having a granny gear now.

  46. #446
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    Just installed my Andersen 40t cog...looks good so far, shifting is spot on. Ride report to come:

    GG Smash

  47. #447
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    I have run one of Anderson Machines 42t for months with great success. It shifts great
    through all gears, I run it with an XT Shadow Plus and a Shimano cassette and the stock b-limit screw. Link to website below.

    https://andersenmachine.wordpress.com/product-info/

  48. #448
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    Just throwing a vote of confidence in for the OneUp Rad Cage. Holy cow what a difference this made with my XT derailleur and 11-42 setup with a WolfTooth GC 42. I also added the 16t cog from OneUp. The smoother transitions are appreciated. It always seemed like I was in between the 15 and 19 when riding on the bike path to the forest, always spinning too much or too little for my preference, the single tooth does make a difference. Good stuff.

    Bottom line, shifting is now spot on and it was never quite right no matter how much I tinkered before with the stock XT cage.

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