Any good comparisons between 1X11 and the "hack" 1X10 setups?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Any good comparisons between 1X11 and the "hack" 1X10 setups?

    Hi everyone,

    Clearly there is a ton of forum traffic about the Oneup and Wolf Tooth 42t setups but I've seen very little direct comparison between these systems and Srams 1X11, especially over the long run.

    I have a wolf tooth/race face/rad cage setup and I find it to be just ok especially as time goes on. Its serviceable and I prefer it over a 2X or 3X setups, but its been finicky and doesn't ever shift as well as I'd like. When all is said and done, I wonder if it would have been better to suck it up and pay for a Sram kit. In all the magazine reviews I see 1X11 getting almost universal praise and I just can't imagine saying the same about my 1X10 setups based on my experience so far.

    Anybody out there been running both setups that can give some long term feedback? Is it worth it to pony up for 1X11?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    What bad experience are you having with your 1x10?

    I have a 1x10 with SRAM X9/X0 and a Response 11-42 cassette. I'm pretty happy with the way it works.

    I spent an entire day doing shuttle runs with a Stumpy 650b and it has XX1. Only major thing I found the XX1 did better is the shifting in the three lower cogs. Once the chain is above the three small cogs...I find that it shifts the same.

    The shifting is a bit more finicky...but once dialed in...I don't notice the slower shifting in the small cogs. The slight compromise in shifting is worth it to me to not have to drop the cash for the XX/X01/X1 parts.

    If you aren't really happy each time you go out and ride...then it may be worth the upgrade to the SRAM X1 drivetrain. In the end...its about enjoying the ride. If you're not happy with what you got...then you aren't enjoying the ride.

    The XX1 drops the chain when backpedaling in the 42T like some of the aftermarket 42T setups.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    What bad experience are you having with your 1x10?

    I have a 1x10 with SRAM X9/X0 and a Response 11-42 cassette. I'm pretty happy with the way it works.

    I spent an entire day doing shuttle runs with a Stumpy 650b and it has XX1. Only major thing I found the XX1 did better is the shifting in the three lower cogs. Once the chain is above the three small cogs...I find that it shifts the same.

    The shifting is a bit more finicky...but once dialed in...I don't notice the slower shifting in the small cogs. The slight compromise in shifting is worth it to me to not have to drop the cash for the XX/X01/X1 parts.

    If you aren't really happy each time you go out and ride...then it may be worth the upgrade to the SRAM X1 drivetrain. In the end...its about enjoying the ride. If you're not happy with what you got...then you aren't enjoying the ride.

    The XX1 drops the chain when backpedaling in the 42T like some of the aftermarket 42T setups.
    The issue is basically what you stated. I find the system works ok but can be finicky especially in the smaller cogs (I have the oneup 16t which doesn't seem to be all that smooth either). I'll have it running pretty well for a ride or two, and than for whatever reason a few rides later it just seems to deteriorate and not to be really crisp or super accurate, often requiring a little finesse at the shifter (i.e. overshift) to get it to move to the next cog. Its not bad, but its not nearly as refined and accurate as it was when I was running a normal Shimano drivetrain.

    There's no denying this is acceptable alternative given the huge difference in cost compared to sram 1X11. However I've never really been able to get a good sense on whether the 1X11 setup is indeed a lot better, especially after the initial few rides as the drivetrain inevitably start to wear.

  4. #4
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    I can't speak personally to the wide range 10sp setup, but every time I've tried to make something work thats not really designed for it, the results have been less than spectacular.
    My first attempt at 2x using a road FD and a converter to top pull, and ghetto tubeless. Both worked, but barely.
    Even oval rings didn't manage to work that well.....the chain kept dropping once they were a bit old and worn.

    The caveat is that I race XC and stage races......I've discovered I need reliability and consistency. I have just been doing a regular 1x10 so far, but have just bought the proper 11sp so I get the range, the integrated components and the knowledge that it will be able to be tuned properly and will, (set up properly) be fast and accurate EVERY time.
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  5. #5
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    I ran a 42t General Lee for a while. The shifting was ok, but never as good as stock. With a 42t cog, you have to crank the b-screw quite a bit to clear it. That puts the derailleur farther away from the remaining cogs.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    I ran a 42t General Lee for a while. The shifting was ok, but never as good as stock. With a 42t cog, you have to crank the b-screw quite a bit to clear it. That puts the derailleur farther away from the remaining cogs.
    Things have progressed with the introduction of Rad Cage and better add on cogs.
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    X9 type 2 RD with One-Up 16 and 42t and 1070 SRAM cassette. Once I got everything dialed in I only get the ocasional slow shift in the lower cogs. Other than that perfect
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  8. #8
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    I don't know about others, I resent the "hack" inference.....
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    The difference between a 10T and 11T small cog doesn't sound like much, but it's about 9%, or roughly like the difference of 3 teeth on the front.

    So, a 28x10 is a higher gear than a 30x11. With the SRAM X01 cassette you can have less compromise in range vs a 1x10.

    In other words you can run a 28T ring and have lower low and a higher high vs someone running 1x10 with a 30T ring.

    (or 30 vs 32 etc.)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    I don't know about others, I resent the "hack" inference.....
    It was not meant to offend. It works pretty well and its what I'm running but I still consider it a hack (a very effective one) given that the derailleurs being used were never meant to deal with a 42T cog and they still don't seem 100% optimized even with the rad cage.

  11. #11
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    ^^^ I can live without the 10, but Shimano really missed the boat by not going up to 42 on the big end.

    Fingers crossed they come to their senses for XT, but I wouldn't bet much more than a beer on it.
    Whining is not a strategy.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    ^^^ I can live without the 10, but Shimano really missed the boat by not going up to 42 on the big end.

    Fingers crossed they come to their senses for XT, but I wouldn't bet much more than a beer on it.
    Totally agree. It's business 101. Whatever your competition is doing, out do them. SRAM has been doing that to Shimano for years, and in response, Shimano meets the challenge with a "not quite as good" alternative. Really stupid.

  13. #13
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    Like everyone said already. I see the difference between my 1x11 XO1 on my Fatboy Pro vs the Wolf Tooth 42T/16T converted Bronson C. The 1x11 is like chambering a round with every shift....positive and definate. The Wolf (and most likely every) conversion shifts so weak in the smaller cogs you can only feel it in the pedals.

    But it works and the setup isn't all that bad really.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    ^^^ I can live without the 10, but Shimano really missed the boat by not going up to 42 on the big end.

    Fingers crossed they come to their senses for XT, but I wouldn't bet much more than a beer on it.
    I think they stuck with 40 in order to maintain shifting quality, because the 40 (which I currently run) shifts much better than the 42 (which I took off). That, and the 40 is more useful with both 1x and 2x than a 42. Seems pretty typical for Shimano.

    I don't think it's as much of a big deal as people make it out to be, my 30t 1x Shimano setup with a 40t cog covers climbing down to the equivalent of 26(Shimano M780 XT granny)x32 and spins out at 19mph at 90rpm.

    For most people, it seems like you just tune your climbing gear with the front chainring and they never even notice the loss of higher gears. The lack of a middle/single chainring option smaller than 30 is a bigger oversight, IMO.

    But the big 1x puch is really more geared more towards the kind of riding where what you're really looking for is the improved chain retention given by narrow-wide chainrings, the gearing is just making the best of what's available. A 2x is going to beat out either SRAM or Shimano 1x all day, every day, when it comes to typical XC riding...especially with Di2, or remembering to shift like it does.

  15. #15
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    I can live with 1x10 until they come out with an SX or X7 version of 1x11. For me it's a hobby not a vocation so, I will wait until its "run of the mill" not "latest and greatest". They should have it perfected by then. ;-)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    The difference between a 10T and 11T small cog doesn't sound like much, but it's about 9%, or roughly like the difference of 3 teeth on the front.

    So, a 28x10 is a higher gear than a 30x11. With the SRAM X01 cassette you can have less compromise in range vs a 1x10.

    In other words you can run a 28T ring and have lower low and a higher high vs someone running 1x10 with a 30T ring.

    (or 30 vs 32 etc.)
    This info gets closer to what I'm trying to figure out with my 1x10 30t/11-36t cassette setup. Can't afford to make the 1x11 switch, not sure I need too. I asked in another thread to compare my 30/36 granny with changing it to 32/40 and was told it be like having one more tooth on cassette granny cog(37) with my 30t ring. Which might give me what I need/want for easier climbing/little more top end. The good thing about the 30t tho is the offset lugs which help my chain line.
    Last edited by JMac47; 11-13-2014 at 02:15 PM. Reason: typo
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    This info gets closer to what I'm trying to figure out with my 1x10 30t/11-36t cassette setup. Can't afford to make the 1x11 switch, not sure I need too. I asked in another thread to compare my 30/36 granny with changing it to 32/40 and was told it be like having one more tooth on cassette granny cog(37) with my 30t ring. Which might give me what I need/want for easier climbing/little more top end. The good thing about the 30t tho is the offset lugs which help my chain line.
    Yeah 32/40 is lower than a 30/36, and you would also have a higher high with a 32/11.

    Get your hands on a gear inch table or make one, and you can figure out what might work best for you.

    With me, I wanted my 1x11 to have a low gear as low as my 22x36 on my 2x 29er. So I went with a 26T ring. I don't care about the high end I lost. Don't miss it. My 26x10 is about equal to a 29/11. Not a racer gear but in that gear I'm going downhill anyway.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    ^^^ I can live without the 10, but Shimano really missed the boat by not going up to 42 on the big end.

    Fingers crossed they come to their senses for XT, but I wouldn't bet much more than a beer on it.

    IMO...at least for now...Shimano's 1x is an afterthought. They are still supporting their 2x/3x systems more than the 1x...where SRAM seems to have put it on the back burner.

    They completely redesigned their front derailleur to where it requires frame makers to re-route the cables guides on the frames. Plus the XTR Di2 which you can operate a double or triple from one shifter.

    If you have a good working 10sp 11-42...I don't really see the point of going with the 1x 11sp Shimano XTR 11-40. You're only gaining an intermediate gear somewhere in the middle of the cassette.

    Only benefit I can see is the shifting performance in the higher gears? Thats if you can see yourself dropping the extra cash to in order to improve your shifting in three cogs.

  19. #19
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    Shimano was also nice enough not to make everybody's freewheels obsolete and create a THIRD option when it comes to compatibility.

    Can you imagine the outcry from the masses if new XTR (and new XT, etc. eventually) wasn't backwards compatible?

  20. #20
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    Shimano's 11sp road cassettes are not compatible with the 10sp hubs...go figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Shimano was also nice enough not to make everybody's freewheels obsolete and create a THIRD option when it comes to compatibility.

    Can you imagine the outcry from the masses if new XTR (and new XT, etc. eventually) wasn't backwards compatible?
    I could not agree more, which is why I'm hoping for XT in 11-42.

    Plenty of good wheels in the stable, and I'd rather not have to install XD drivers.
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  22. #22
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    ^ Well that puts egg on a few faces in this thread, hey!!
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  23. #23
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    Any good comparisons between 1X11 and the "hack" 1X10 setups?

    I just ran the two last weeks a seam xx1... I am speechless! It works fantastic! The best drivetrain I have used ever!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Shimano's 11sp road cassettes are not compatible with the 10sp hubs...go figure.
    Luckily, they came to their senses for mtb stuff!
    Whining is not a strategy.

  25. #25
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    I run XX1 on my E29 with a 29-tooth front ring. I run a hacked 1x10 on my SB95c with a 30-tooth front ring and the One Up 40-tooth/16-tooth setup on the cassette with an X9 type 2 mech.

    I live in Arizona. One thing I've noticed on XX1 is the longevity. In our rocky terrain, I typically break 1-2 rear mechs per bike per year. The entire XX1 system is more than a year old and still going strong.

    The 1x10 system is newer, maybe 6 rides. For me and my terrain, the XX1 is the perfect rack of gears for everything I ride. The 1x10 I could use a bit higher gear for some grunts.

    I love the shift quality on XX1, but the 1x10 is perfectly acceptable and setup was dead simple. If you have to have the best drivetrain on the market, I think XX1 is it. But the newer 1x10 setups are damn good.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I run XX1 on my E29 with a 29-tooth front ring. I run a hacked 1x10 on my SB95c with a 30-tooth front ring and the One Up 40-tooth/16-tooth setup on the cassette with an X9 type 2 mech.

    I live in Arizona. One thing I've noticed on XX1 is the longevity. In our rocky terrain, I typically break 1-2 rear mechs per bike per year. The entire XX1 system is more than a year old and still going strong.

    The 1x10 system is newer, maybe 6 rides. For me and my terrain, the XX1 is the perfect rack of gears for everything I ride. The 1x10 I could use a bit higher gear for some grunts.

    I love the shift quality on XX1, but the 1x10 is perfectly acceptable and setup was dead simple. If you have to have the best drivetrain on the market, I think XX1 is it. But the newer 1x10 setups are damn good.
    Is your 29T from North Shore Billet? Do you have any chain drop issues?

  27. #27
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    Yes. And no, but it's a direct mount.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Yes. And no, but it's a direct mount.
    I was wondering about those NSB chainrings since they aren't narrow wide. That's good to know.

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