ahhh trigger shifters are so SLOW! What's next?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    ahhh trigger shifters are so SLOW! What's next?

    I've been running gripshift on my mtbs for the last 10 years or so, and barcon shifters on my road bike for 2. With barcon/gripshift i have to move my hand position to shift, but it's FAST, and 1 pedal stroke puts me in any gear on the cassette. It's glorious; i shift when i can move my hand, and then put myself in the right gear when i can sneak in 1 pedal stroke.

    My newest bike has XT 12 speed, and it shifts amazing. Well, not really. Unlike gripshift/thumbies/barcon i can't shift the whole cassette in a single pedal stroke, and getting the RD to the right cog often takes multiple hand movements. Shifting takes forever! ...but i don't have to move my hand, which is sweet. It's a reasonable compromise on a road bike or a xc/dh race bike, but it feels super clumsy for trail rides.

    I want a trigger shifter like sram's r2c tri bike shifters- they're like thumbies where you can push them across a bunch of gears, then they go back to their middle position. It's the advantages of both systems in a simpler lever. All the tech has existed for years, and yet it doesn't exist.
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    I think it doesn't exist because most people don't care whether or not they can shift through the entire cassette in one pedal stroke. Super clumsy and slow aren't words I associate with rapid-fire shift levers but if you do then I guess you'll either have to stick with grip shift or accept the compromises.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think it doesn't exist because most people don't care whether or not they can shift through the entire cassette in one pedal stroke. Super clumsy and slow aren't words I associate with rapid-fire shift levers but if you do then I guess you'll either have to stick with grip shift or accept the compromises.
    Exactly. Nobody is clamoring for a superior shifter because most riders don't realize that rapidfire shifters are clumsy and slow. The weirdos that see it are using goofy shit like gripshift and thumbies, which have their own problems. A superior alternative exists, but there's no demand to develop and market it for mtb. It's interesting.
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  4. #4
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    When in doubt, go singlespeed.
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  5. #5
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    My 12 speed is actually a single speed, I am only ever in one gear at a time. ;-)
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    The short throw of the X01 and higher makes up for this for me, the lower end sloppy SRAM shifters get a bit annoying IMO. The Shimano stuff takes too much force for me, especially on the upshift, negating the multi-release 2-at-a-time function. SRAM also shifts down at least one more cog at a time than shimano, maybe two, but you have to push the shifter pretty far for this. It *kind of* replicates that grip-shift function you mention, being able to at least nearly-go through the entire range at once. Sometimes I forget this is there, but every once and a while it's handy.

    I put GS on one of my fatbikes and I hugely prefer it there.
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  7. #7
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    Honestly don't see the problem. Can't recall the last time I actually wanted to dump the whole cassette in one motion. Maybe when I had a narrow range 8spd cassette? With the gaps on wide range cassettes now, we're talking a few cogs max and I'm where I want to be. My road/gravel bike has thumbies and while I like their simplicity, I don't ever dump the cassette. They're a little annoying in that the lever position is different depending on what gear I'm in, so I get where SRAM's tri bike shifter action would be much better there. I don't see it working on a mtb trigger shifter layout, though.

    Manufacturers have invested pretty heavily in electronic shifting as the "next level" and that gives you cassette-dumping capability, low shift effort, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if Shimano's 12spd electronic group is wireless to eliminate that annoyance (routing the wires, buying all the right junction boxes, wire lengths, etc).

  8. #8
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    I think grip shift works for XC race bikes on nontechnical courses.


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    Isnít one of the selling points of gearboxes the ability to shift across entire range in one movement (and while coasting, no less)? Iím hoping that the technology keeps evolving rather than getting abandoned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    When in doubt, go singlespeed.
    They have the slowest shifting of all.

    Riding geared bikes, I found that with experience comes the skill of anticipating what gear I'll need to be in and being in it when needed. This is not hindered by the shifting speed of the current common mechanical drivetrains.
    Do the math.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Isnít one of the selling points of gearboxes the ability to shift across entire range in one movement (and while coasting, no less)? Iím hoping that the technology keeps evolving rather than getting abandoned.
    I would much rather have to pedal to shift vs coast to shift. I canít imagine climbing the steep stuff and having to ďcoastĒ to get into a lower gear.

    I also cannot imagine the unholy sound a eagle cassette would make slamming from the 50 to the 10 in one go. I have never been in a situation where I felt like I needed to dump the entire block. If you want that ability go electronic. All you need to do is hold down a button.


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by austink26 View Post
    I would much rather have to pedal to shift vs coast to shift. I canít imagine climbing the steep stuff and having to ďcoastĒ to get into a lower gear.

    I also cannot imagine the unholy sound a eagle cassette would make slamming from the 50 to the 10 in one go. I have never been in a situation where I felt like I needed to dump the entire block. If you want that ability go electronic. All you need to do is hold down a button.


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    Stand by while I race out to the garage.

    I need to install something I'm not used to then come in and complain about it.



    On the other hand, I think OP has been over bike the whole time. More like "over-shiftered". Now he has a bike that shifts as well as the conditions call for and he's dissatisfied.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    The short throw of the X01 and higher makes up for this for me, the lower end sloppy SRAM shifters get a bit annoying IMO. The Shimano stuff takes too much force for me, especially on the upshift, negating the multi-release 2-at-a-time function. SRAM also shifts down at least one more cog at a time than shimano, maybe two, but you have to push the shifter pretty far for this. It *kind of* replicates that grip-shift function you mention, being able to at least nearly-go through the entire range at once. Sometimes I forget this is there, but every once and a while it's handy.

    I put GS on one of my fatbikes and I hugely prefer it there.
    Can't speak to high end sram; i swore off sram wear items long ago. Still have some 10 year old sram shifters/derailleurs in circulation. I don't intend to defend gripshift in this thread; it's just a convenient example of how you can shift a heap of cogs with light pedal pressure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Honestly don't see the problem. Can't recall the last time I actually wanted to dump the whole cassette in one motion. Maybe when I had a narrow range 8spd cassette? With the gaps on wide range cassettes now, we're talking a few cogs max and I'm where I want to be. My road/gravel bike has thumbies and while I like their simplicity, I don't ever dump the cassette. They're a little annoying in that the lever position is different depending on what gear I'm in, so I get where SRAM's tri bike shifter action would be much better there. I don't see it working on a mtb trigger shifter layout, though.

    Manufacturers have invested pretty heavily in electronic shifting as the "next level" and that gives you cassette-dumping capability, low shift effort, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if Shimano's 12spd electronic group is wireless to eliminate that annoyance (routing the wires, buying all the right junction boxes, wire lengths, etc).
    I get how when you're accustomed to triggers you can forget how nice it is to instantly grab any gear. When i ride my trail hardtail (trigger shifters) a bunch it takes a ride or two before i remember i can instantly grab any cog. It's one of those things where you don't notice the feature is there, but you miss it when it's gone.

    My trail HT is 2x, and that helps hide how slow trigger shifters are. A FD gear change is pretty similar to jumping a stack of gears on the cassette. You have to be light on the pedals, but you can enjoy a huge ratio change in a single pedal stroke.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    I think grip shift works for XC race bikes on nontechnical courses.
    It certainly does. Again, i'm not trying to defend gripshift, but a lot of the GS hate comes from people riding it with their hands on the shifters full time. That doesn't work, old news. Not the point. I'm interested in r2c style trigger shifters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Isnít one of the selling points of gearboxes the ability to shift across entire range in one movement (and while coasting, no less)? Iím hoping that the technology keeps evolving rather than getting abandoned.
    Yeah, from my read (and 1 demo day) modern gearboxes are too extreme in the 'shift any cog, with low pedal pressure' direction. I think they suck, as of 2019. r2c trigger shifters would be able to do both, the way thumbies and gripshift can, without the terrible ergonomics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Stand by while I race out to the garage.

    I need to install something I'm not used to then come in and complain about it.



    On the other hand, I think OP has been over bike the whole time. More like "over-shiftered". Now he has a bike that shifts as well as the conditions call for and he's dissatisfied.
    Do you really think i'm unfamiliar with the overwhelmingly most popular style shifter? Really?? ...noobies...
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by austink26 View Post
    I would much rather have to pedal to shift vs coast to shift. I canít imagine climbing the steep stuff and having to ďcoastĒ to get into a lower gear.
    Thatís not how they work. You can shift while pedaling.

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    ahhh trigger shifters are so SLOW! What's next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Thatís not how they work. You can shift while pedaling.
    Why does every review of the pinion mention no shifting under load? And most mention how this affects climbing. Is there another gear box that allows shifting under load?

    ďOut on the trail you cannot shift under load. When asked about this Pinion explained that it is a question of torque, the gearbox itself will shift under load, but using a cable shifter you cannot generate enough torque to do it. ď

    Source: https://m.pinkbike.com/news/inside-pinion.html

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    Personally I find both Shimano and SRAM trigger shifters to work acceptably quick enough for me. However this does bring to light one downside of 1X drivetrains I don't see brought up...the need to quickly slam from one end of the cluster to the other and often under load.

    Most people tout the lack of gearing overlap as a virtue with 1X drivetrains vs 2X or 3X. But back in the days of multiple front ring drivetrains it was actually considered better technique to stay in the middle 1/3 of the cassette using it to "fine tune" your gearing and shift on the front ring when you needed to make big changes in gearing quickly. When coming upon a surprise climb one quick click of the shifter could get you from 34/18 to 22/18 rather than having to jam on the shifter multiple times to get from the 12t cog to the 46t cog on the cassette.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    When coming upon a surprise climb one quick click of the shifter could get you from 34/18 to 22/18 rather than having to jam on the shifter multiple times to get from the 12t cog to the 46t cog on the cassette.

    Why go from 12t to 46t? Shifting from the middle to small chainring is equivalent to just 3 or 4 clicks on the rear shifter, which is easily accomplished.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Why go from 12t to 46t? Shifting from the middle to small chainring is equivalent to just 3 or 4 clicks on the rear shifter, which is easily accomplished.
    Jesus people nit-pick around here and miss the big picture point. Point is you can dump a bunch of gears more quickly with one click of the front shifter than you can with multiple clicks on the rear. Forget about what cogs i used to illustrate my point....

    FWIW I use 1X drivetrains on all my bikes and have for years going back to 9 speed systems with chain keepers before clutch RD's existed and 11-34 cassettes. Nowadays I so wish SRAM or Shimano would make a 12 speed 10-36 or 10-40 cassette for their 1X drivetrains. But if I lived somewhere that had significant climbs I'd likely use a 2X system.

  19. #19
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    I can make good power from 50rpm to 120rpm so...it doesn't really irk me that my shifts take 1/2 second per cog...just shift and pedal


    who cares about dumping a lot of gears at once, that is just bad planning if you have to do that...work on your power at specific cadences don't look for the shifter speed to solve all your issues
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    Jesus people nit-pick around here and miss the big picture point. Point is you can dump a bunch of gears more quickly with one click of the front shifter than you can with multiple clicks on the rear. Forget about what cogs i used to illustrate my point....

    Sorry, didn't mean to be all nit-picky but you made kind of a wild exaggeration in order to illustrate your point. Shifting through 10 gears is a bit different than shifting through 3 or 4, you can downshift 3 gears on the cassette with a single thumb stroke.

    I've used 2 and 3x a lot and though it was kind of handy at times to dump it into the small ring for abrupt climbs I don't find it any harder or less convenient to shift a few at a time in the back. Just my opinion though.
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  21. #21
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    With the Rohloff I can dump 14 gears without one petal stroke....oh, sorry ur taiking about conventional gearing.....
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by austink26 View Post
    Why does every review of the pinion mention no shifting under load? And most mention how this affects climbing. Is there another gear box that allows shifting under load?

    ďOut on the trail you cannot shift under load. When asked about this Pinion explained that it is a question of torque, the gearbox itself will shift under load, but using a cable shifter you cannot generate enough torque to do it. ď

    Source: https://m.pinkbike.com/news/inside-pinion.html
    I see what youíre talking about now. I differentiate ďshifting under loadĒ from ďshifting while pedaling.Ē I understand it as needing to pause a moment kind of like youíre *supposed* to do with a standard derailleur drivetrain (but the derailleur tolerates loaded shifting if you must).

    ďThere is a technique to shifting with a Pinion gearbox where youíll need to back off on your power for a split second to make the shift. This takes a bit of time to master but becomes second nature in no time.Ē

    https://www.cyclingabout.com/tour-wi...inion-gearbox/

    The following reviewer also talks about it starting at 5:15:

    https://youtu.be/gAqO0zbSIog


    Have you ridden a bike with an internal gearbox? Iíll admit that I havenít had the opportunity, although Iíve tried a Rohloff internally geared hub. Thereís a lot of potential benefit from internal gears but right now there are still some issues. The pedal lag and inherent gear friction would bother me.

    Like I said in my first post, I hope the technology evolves to refine the performance so it works beyond reproach.

  23. #23
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    The reason I went to triggers is that every 10-20th ride I would inadvertently painfully roll my wrist or just roll my wrist enough to throw my line off a few centimeters which would cause a crash on technical downs. I have large sweaty hands my hands would shift inwards periodically.

    But if it works for you, great. I just donít think it works for most, even if they do like it for the most part.


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Have you ridden a bike with an internal gearbox? Iíll admit that I havenít had the opportunity, although Iíve tried a Rohloff internally geared hub. Thereís a lot of potential benefit from internal gears but right now there are still some issues. The pedal lag and inherent gear friction would bother me.

    Like I said in my first post, I hope the technology evolves to refine the performance so it works beyond reproach.
    I got to take a short spin on a Zerode Taniwha with the Pinion gearbox once at a local demo. They were INCREDIBLY popular to demo, and they only had a size too small for me and it was about to go out on the trail, so I just got a parking lot spin while the rider filled out paperwork.

    The shift lag was weird. I am not sure if I could get used to it or not, as I didn't get enough time on it. But it was definitely different than just "backing off on your power" the way you do for traditional drivetrains. With a traditional drivetrain, you HAVE to pedal to make the shift. You just want to ease up so the chain can move. Shifting without pedaling at all can actually cause problems if you want to shift more than one gear at a time. I felt like with the Pinion, it needed a legit pause in pedaling to shift (but it completed the whole shift) and when you started pedaling again, it was in whatever gear you selected. Just...strange. Also, twist shifters are pretty ubiquitous on gearboxes (including the Rohloff), I assume because they're simpler to implement with the dual-cable designs. I know that there are alternative non-twist shifters available for the Rohloff, but not sure about Pinion. Seems to me that the gearboxes are ripe for electronic shifting the way Shimano has done with the Alfine 11spd. Maybe be able to put down enough torque to shift the Pinion while you pedal with electronic actuation?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    The reason I went to triggers is that every 10-20th ride I would inadvertently painfully roll my wrist or just roll my wrist enough to throw my line off a few centimeters which would cause a crash on technical downs. I have large sweaty hands my hands would shift inwards periodically.

    But if it works for you, great. I just donít think it works for most, even if they do like it for the most part.


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    That's a downside people don't talk about with gripshift. Every shift requires you to move your hand position.

    I've always been grab gears as fast as the bike will shift with triggers, Shimano or SRAM, and I don't shift gently either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Unlike gripshift/thumbies/barcon i can't shift the whole cassette in a single pedal stroke,.
    That's is a personal problem. And obviously not a real world user complaint, and not a trail complaint.

    You really don't have a gripe here

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    That's is a personal problem. And obviously not a real world user complaint, and not a trail complaint.

    You really don't have a gripe here
    This is a common reply in this thread. It's surprising to me how many of you don't realize what you're missing, but i guess it explains why triggers have been functionally unchanged since their inception.
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  28. #28
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    I can't imagine jumping from 10 to 50 while hitting a climb without seriously damaging something. I've already rolled teeth on a cassette doing something similar once.
    . . . . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    This is a common reply in this thread. It's surprising to me how many of you don't realize what you're missing, but i guess it explains why triggers have been functionally unchanged since their inception.


    I don't think it's a matter of missing anything. I can downshift 3 cogs at a time and I rarely use that feature, I can't imagine ever wanting to shift directly from 10 to 50 even if that option were available. Just a different style of riding I guess.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Have you ridden a bike with an internal gearbox?
    I have not. The only time I have seen one in person was at a race. The dude who had it was acting like a tool trying to hype up having a gear box and his alleged times on the stages. I figured since I beat him, I wasnít missing much.


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    Dude, one of my bikes i still run XC Pro thumbies with XTR casette; ive never had need to dump entire casette. With a modern drivetrain dumping whole casette would be equavent to dumping casette and shifting front ring at same time, that chain be flying all over the place! Actually trigger shifters are great for two handed shifts and maintaining good grip

  32. #32
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    XT Di2 comes to mind (and possibly Sram AXS) since you can just hold a trigger for either direction and the rear mech will rapidly move through the gears. I find it handy being able to quickly move up and down the cassette especially when it's a click a gear going in one direction so it's a lot of clicks to move through the cassette.
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    Everything is a compromise. To have smooth shifts, the chain needs to follow the shift gates built into the cassette. Rapidly shifting the entire cassette is not really an intended use for modern drivetrains. Even the speed of single gear shifts can depend on cadence more than anything else, if the chain is following the intended path. Otherwise it jumps and clunks into place. Sometimes you do want to make large gear changes as quickly as possible, this is one of the things I don't like about SRAM, you can only upshift one gear at a time. That's a lot of clicks. If your shifter allows you to rapidly force the chain across the cassette it is messy but fast and the chain has to settle back into the intended gear. Even trigger shifters can do this to some extent but it does require multiple rapid hand movements.

    Maximum shifting speed has never been a priority for me so I've always been willing to live with this for the benefits of relatively smooth, fast and easy shifting in every other scenario. My first good bike came with GripShift and when I switched to RapidFire I was much happier and have never looked back. It suits my riding style but I can see how some people might prefer a twist shift.

    More recently I have been riding with electronic shifting which definitely puts a speed limit on shifting many gear fast but also makes it a smoother process. It's nice having every shift require the same easy input and always being smooth and controlled as long as you are ok with not being able to force a wide fast shift, ever. I would like to try a different take on shifting speed, by reducing the number of gears. But I'm not willing to either spend the money on the Box One Prime 9 cassette or accept the weight of the cheaper Box Two version just to try it out. What I would really like to see is Shimano make a 10-51 HG+ cassette with 9 or 10 speeds, and then the cassette could be narrower and lighter and cheaper and the hub flanges wider and chainlines better and we would never need to go beyond Boost. But that's just crazy talk.

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    I love the folks on this forum. Guy asked for advice on a problem he has and everyone pipes in that he's the problem. Man wants a 12 spd thumb shifter of some sort, Micro shift makes one, I've got 200+ miles on it driving an Eagle drivetrain. Works fine, no problem skipping through a whole cassette. Also run Eagle and 12 spd shimano on my other bikes. Good luck Scottzg...keep being weird brother.

    ahhh trigger shifters are so SLOW!  What's next?-shifter.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    This is a common reply in this thread. It's surprising to me how many of you don't realize what you're missing, but i guess it explains why triggers have been functionally unchanged since their inception.
    Except I recently came from grip shifting MTB, and it was a pain in the butt for steep trails in comparison. No where near as precise, and I simply walk up steep climbs now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by screamingbunny View Post
    I love the folks on this forum. Guy asked for advice on a problem he has and everyone pipes in that he's the problem. Man wants a 12 spd thumb shifter of some sort, Micro shift makes one, I've got 200+ miles on it driving an Eagle drivetrain. Works fine, no problem skipping through a whole cassette. Also run Eagle and 12 spd shimano on my other bikes. Good luck Scottzg...keep being weird brother.
    I have a set of those on a bike, actually. 11sp shimano. I like them, but since the lever stays where you put it it can be hard to reach them in some gears. And the ergonomics are weird when they're set up as triggers. With the grippers it's always the same motion and the same amount of hand movement nets the same change in gearing regardless of where you are on the cassette. That's what i want in a trigger shifter.

    Thanks for the heads-up though! They're a nice alternative for a bike that doesn't see any technical riding.
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    It sounds like the OP is after an upside down mounted thumbshifter that returns to it's original position after shifting through the whole cassette. That would probably mean going back to a left and right shifter just for the rear derailleur, or a huge lever throw to get up and downshifts through the whole cassette in one shifter. I like the idea of it.

    A few people have chimed in with their ideas on different systems so here are mine based on what I've owned and ridden over the past few years.

    I owned a Rohloff hub. I never had any issues with the operation of the gripshifter. I didn't like that I had to release all pressure from the gears to shift in both directions. On the mtb this was very frustrating. For commuting it seemed like a perfect set up. But I didn't like it enough to keep it and sold earlier this year after owning it a few years.

    I still have a Nicolai Helius Pinion AC in the one true mtb wheel size, 26". The Pinion gearbox is great. The P.18 range is huge. Gripshift is not a problem. Unlike the Rohloff, I do shift more than 3 or 4 gears on occasion. Not often, but often enough that it is useful. With a 600% range I've never wanted to go from one end of the spread to the other. Changing gears without pedalling is very underrated. Once you get used to be able to do it, it is extremely useful, especially if something surprises you on a trail. Shifting to a harder gear under load has never been an issue. Shifting to an easier gear takes 2 or 3 rides to get used to releasing the pressure as you pedal. It's the same thing most people who have ridden from 3x to 2x to 1x were probably taught to do anyway, but a bot more pronounced. I've heard the newer shifter lets you changes gears in any situation and I'd like to try it, or electronic shifting for the Pinion gearbox would be great. My biggest complaint about the whole Pinion set up is the tensioner mounted under the bb. I've got a spare, but the original one has 4 mounting holes for the spring and 3 of them have been destroyed by rocks, leaving very little material around the last hole. The bolt doesn't seem to be available as a spare part on its own. I've got the original set up with the single long cable. I'll be looking to get the new 2 cable set up with the shifter update.

    Having been through 3x, 2x and 1x I don't have a problem with front derailleurs. I've held out for a long time to change to 1x, even though I used to run 1x9 with a 34t chainring and 11-36 cassette. I've always run 1x with a top and bottom chainguide. I don't like the shifting feel of the rear derailleur with the clutch on. On my Liteville 301 I used their chainstay mounted guide/tensioner, clutch off and a 2x10 set up that worked perfectly every shift. I had my Pivot Mach 5.5 set up originally with 2x11 XTR/XT Di2 and it was great except for a battery drain issue that could never be diagnosed. Now that it's been off the bike for a while it looks like an issue with the XTR rear derailleur. Since it's been off I'm running XT 1x11 with a Box 2 11-46 cassette and I really like it. I've never found the shifting slow or been caught in the wrong gear through a need to shift more gears than is currently possible. I'm happy with the lever throw on the XT shifter and don;t feel guilty about cross chaining. I'm not sure I'd go back to the current version of XTR/XT Di2 shifting. Yes, shifts were quick, programmable and made a cool noise. But, it isn't supremely better than the 1x XT mechanical set up I'm running on the same bike.

    On the road that's a different story. I have an Ultegra 2x11 mechanical set up on one bike and 9000 Di2 on another. Di2 is much better on the road bikes.

    It's great we have lots of options!

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    Quote Originally Posted by screamingbunny View Post
    I love the folks on this forum. Guy asked for advice on a problem he has and everyone pipes in that he's the problem. Man wants a 12 spd thumb shifter of some sort, Micro shift makes one, I've got 200+ miles on it driving an Eagle drivetrain. Works fine, no problem skipping through a whole cassette. Also run Eagle and 12 spd shimano on my other bikes. Good luck Scottzg...keep being weird brother.
    A different take on that would be that he asked a rhetorical question to start a conversation, people shared their opinions and you used that as an excuse to bag on everyone.

    A perfect shifting system doesn't exist, hell we aren't even close. But we do have a lot of options that more or less get the job done. There are some variations on existing tech that are yet to be fully explored, the problem is that to a large degree we are stuck with what Shimano and Sram want us to use.

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    ahhh trigger shifters are so SLOW! What's next?

    After many years on gripshift I went to triggers on my 1x11. You get used to it, and really, when do you actually need to go through all your gears in one second?

    It is sort of like the argument I always heard against gripshift about not being able to shift and brake with the same hand: When do you actually have to shift and brake with the same hand at the same time? Riding gripshift a while makes you realize that it is basically never.

    And in defense of Gripshift.... I ran GS for almost 20 years. After the first few rides, accidental shifts basically NEVER happened. You donít ride with your hand ON the shifter, you ride with your hand just up against it.

    XC, DH, flat, rocky, technical, whatever, it works just as well as triggers, just differently.

    The reason I switched to triggers for my main ride is that I went 1x. The grip feels a little different with and without a grip-shift (full length grip vs shortened GS compatible grip), so it seemed a little odd having just one.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    When do you actually have to shift and brake with the same hand at the same time? .
    We drop 1000' in 13 minutes, and there are a few small climbs in such, and one needs to be in the right gear on the bottom of the section, and your on brakes a lot going down, even when bombing it. That and sometimes im bombing and shifting to the 10t cog and brakes are on off as you go through the technical section.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    We drop 1000' in 13 minutes, and there are a few small climbs in such, and one needs to be in the right gear on the bottom of the section, and your on brakes a lot going down, even when bombing it. That and sometimes im bombing and shifting to the 10t cog and brakes are on off as you go through the technical section.
    This^ I can think of scenarios on just about every ride where shifting and braking are happening at the same time. Back when I was racing XC downshifting while braking into a corner was pretty common practice as you normally kept your feet spinning so downshifting while slowing for a corner or climb was normal.
    . . . . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    We drop 1000' in 13 minutes, and there are a few small climbs in such, and one needs to be in the right gear on the bottom of the section, and your on brakes a lot going down, even when bombing it. That and sometimes im bombing and shifting to the 10t cog and brakes are on off as you go through the technical section.
    What you ate describing is not uncommon and I dealt with it regularly for 20 years on my bike with GS. I rather quickly adapted and realized that even when braking before a fast uphill transition, you are still braking on and off beforehand. You just shift on the ďoffĒ parts. Also, you can still use the front brake when shifting the rear.

    Again, the need to shift and brake with GS seems like a much bigger deal in theory than I found it in practice.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    What you ate describing is not uncommon and I dealt with it regularly for 20 years on my bike with GS. I rather quickly adapted and realized that even when braking before a fast uphill transition, you are still braking on and off beforehand. You just shift on the ďoffĒ parts. Also, you can still use the front brake when shifting the rear.

    Again, the need to shift and brake with GS seems like a much bigger deal in theory than I found it in practice.
    Sure. when im riding trail and can know/expect whats coming. Not so much for unknown trails or sections you forget about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    Sure. when im riding trail and can know/expect whats coming. Not so much for unknown trails or sections you forget about.
    Not to sound like a broken record, but I really think this is more a problem in theory than in practice. At least that has been my experience. I have seen zero difference in the ability to be in the right gear when I need it using GS or triggers, and I have been using both for 20 years. Mostly GS, but I have triggers on several 2nd MTBs over the years, and been running it exclusively for a the last year and a half.

    I'm not trying to proselytize GS, here. It feels right for some folks, and not for others. Clearly more of the latter, which is why they are uncommon these days. But so much of what people fret about is just not an issue in practice.

    Also, just as there are many different styles of trigger, there are as well with GS. I can't stand the "half-pipe" ones with the long grips. Those were designed to have part of your hand on them at all times and IMO it was a terrible idea (and likely confirmed fears of accidental shifts). The grip shifters can have very different profiles. Some are made to be flush with the stationary part of the grip, others are larger and knobby (I like the latter). The shifting action itself can have different feels.

    My main issue with GS now is that SRAM basically perfected the Gripshift design 20 years ago with the 8 and 9 speed ESP (the ones without the gear indicator windows) and they have done nothing but over-complicate and over-price them ever since, and they don't even feel as good to me.

    I apologize for pulling this off topic, as this thread was about not being able to dump a lot of gears with triggers. But my point is the same: bigger issue in theory than in practice. You adapt and it becomes a non-issue.

    Perhaps the ability of GS to dump a lot of gears offsets the fact that you can't shift and brake with the same hand? Perhaps the fact that you CAN shift and brake with the same hand on triggers offsets the fact that you can't dump a whole bunch of gears as fast? I can't say for sure. All I do know is that they both work fine in practice. It is just what feels more comfortable and familiar to you.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    That was one thing i liked about Shimano whachamaclit that was brake lever and shifter combined for mtb. Was able on one section of trail was steep technical down into a gully which immediately got into steep tech climb. Have to keep speed down and no flat so couldnt use momentum to getinto the climb. With those brifters was able to down shift during the downhill and hit the climb in proper gear. Otherwise you either end up getting off and walking it ip, or attempting to crunch the gears at mad torque on the climb, and usually getting off and walking it.
    But other than that, those things were ugly bulky mess, and ofcasionaly unintentionally shifting.
    I used GS for a little bit, those xrays exploded fairly quickly. Ok, but the lower end ones took up too much grip realestate. I ended up using the lower model and cutting the grip in half. This was during my trials days which didnt use shifting often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    We drop 1000' in 13 minutes, and there are a few small climbs in such, and one needs to be in the right gear on the bottom of the section, and your on brakes a lot going down, even when bombing it. That and sometimes im bombing and shifting to the 10t cog and brakes are on off as you go through the technical section.
    This is why I said in my post above if I lived in a more significantly hilly'er area than I do I'd likely still be running a 2X drivetrain. Instead of jamming through the full range of the cassette, just one click of the left shifter and you can dump or gain a bunch of gear inches really quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    With gripshift i have to move my hand position to shift

    Why?

    I've been running twist shifters since about '96. On some of the reaaaaaalllllly old stuff (SRAM Half-Pipe) I'd mis-shift occasionally, but with normal width 9, 11, or 12 speed my hand is on the shifter full time and I don't have any shifting weirdness.

    Dunno why, but 10-speed twisters sucked. Didn't matter where you rested your hand, because they were always mis-indexing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Why?

    I've been running twist shifters since about '96. On some of the reaaaaaalllllly old stuff (SRAM Half-Pipe) I'd mis-shift occasionally, but with normal width 9, 11, or 12 speed my hand is on the shifter full time and I don't have any shifting weirdness.

    Dunno why, but 10-speed twisters sucked. Didn't matter where you rested your hand, because they were always mis-indexing.
    Hmmm. Youíre the only really good rider I now of using grip shift. Iím sure there are others.

    Shimano XTR Di2 2X was awesome. Seriously rapid shifts under stupid loads with one trigger. Huge range with a bigger rear cog on a SRAM cassette. SRAM 11 speed cassette is significantly lighter than 12 speed. But you pay for it. Requires precise adjustments, RF chainrings wore fast, and replacement parts are expensive. It was pretty darn reliable.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Why?

    I've been running twist shifters since about '96. On some of the reaaaaaalllllly old stuff (SRAM Half-Pipe) I'd mis-shift occasionally, but with normal width 9, 11, or 12 speed my hand is on the shifter full time and I don't have any shifting weirdness.

    Dunno why, but 10-speed twisters sucked. Didn't matter where you rested your hand, because they were always mis-indexing.
    If my hands overlap the shifter then i have accidental shifts when jumping or riding steeps. Sketch. I don't even like the >9sp grippers much because occasionally my hands will overlap the shifter since there's no bulge to indicate where the shifter starts.

    My dream grip shifter would be this guy in 12sp, with the grip portion half as wide as it is.
    ahhh trigger shifters are so SLOW!  What's next?-4417683192_d209b50d9d_z.jpg
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    Interesting to note how many people say there is never a need to do major gear changes like the o/p mentions. Either y'all have excellent precognition or you ride your trail first to learn every feature and possibility, then ride it to "ride" it.

    I've been on plenty of trails that have fully surprised me where I have gone from normal speed to almost a dead stop more than once from surprise muck, other ground anomalies, switchbacks with a surprise around the corner. Being able to drop to creeper gear in an instant enabled me to keep moving instead of having to drop feet into the stew to keep from falling over.

    Maybe the trails I ride just need to be groomed a little better, or I need to plan my rides in advance.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Interesting to note how many people say there is never a need to do major gear changes like the o/p mentions. Either y'all have excellent precognition...
    Kind of yes. You (or at least I) can read the trail and anticipate shifts most of the time since lines of sight are usually open enough. Once in awhile I'll get caught in the wrong gear though. It does happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Interesting to note how many people say there is never a need to do major gear changes like the o/p mentions. Either y'all have excellent precognition or you ride your trail first to learn every feature and possibility, then ride it to "ride" it.

    I've been on plenty of trails that have fully surprised me where I have gone from normal speed to almost a dead stop more than once from surprise muck, other ground anomalies, switchbacks with a surprise around the corner. Being able to drop to creeper gear in an instant enabled me to keep moving instead of having to drop feet into the stew to keep from falling over.

    Maybe the trails I ride just need to be groomed a little better, or I need to plan my rides in advance.
    Maybe we just ride differently. If I'm caught totally off guard with a climb where I need to dump from 10t to 50t it's likely that the hill is also steep, which mean that the kind of power needed to maintain momentum is also enough to mangle the rear mech, bend the cassette, or break the chain (usually the mech or cassette go before the chain). In essence, it's highly unlikely that a complete cassette dump while climbing would be successful. If you're not putting down enough power to mangle a cassette or mech on a huge shift like that then it's likely there was no true urgency to begin with. In that case moving 3-4 gears at a time would make more sense. It's very rare indeed to encounter a situation where I am caught entirely off guard while in my 10t cog finding myself suddenly needing the 50t. Maybe you should focus on lifting your head up and looking further ahead of you.
    . . . . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Interesting to note how many people say there is never a need to do major gear changes like the o/p mentions.

    From one end of the cassette to the other? I come across abrupt terrain changes just like anyone else but usually half the cassette is plenty, I can't ever remember hauling @ss in my 11t and then suddenly needing my 36. Can't imagine going from 10 to 50 but if that's what you or anyone else needs I'm not arguing, just saying it doesn't seem to be a common request.
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    Just curious, how often are you guys in your 10T while riding off-road? I'll use it once in awhile on a paved descent but I rarely use it while riding trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Just curious, how often are you guys in your 10T while riding off-road? I'll use it once in awhile on a paved descent but I rarely use it while riding trails.
    Every time I ride out here. There are plenty of DH trails where speeds from 20-30mph are attainable. There are no trees here, just rocks and ruts. On many of these trails it actually gets easier to go faster because you can just boost over the rocks.
    . . . . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Just curious, how often are you guys in your 10T while riding off-road? I'll use it once in awhile on a paved descent but I rarely use it while riding trails.
    Around here we have fire road sections intertwined with the trails and some are downhill. So I use the 10 fairly often. Same goes for when racing and trying to go flat out. But I have never needed to go from the 10 to the 50 immediately.


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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    From one end of the cassette to the other? I come across abrupt terrain changes just like anyone else but usually half the cassette is plenty, I can't ever remember hauling @ss in my 11t and then suddenly needing my 36. Can't imagine going from 10 to 50 but if that's what you or anyone else needs I'm not arguing, just saying it doesn't seem to be a common request.
    I come across a lot of places where you have to carry as much speed in to an abrupt climb to make it. Being able to shift while your shift your body weight, then change gears as you settle in to the pedals is a large advantage. A 5-8 cog change isn't unusual.

    Here's an example-

    https://youtu.be/FCmZc_5TFus?t=202


    On descents, it's just nice to plop yourself directly in to the right gear when you've been coasting downhill in a climbing gear. Convenience.
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Everything looks milder in video than in person of course but I don't think I'd have been in my 10T (or a high gear) entering that particular dip. I'd set up for it before I entered the dip by picking the cog I'd need for climbing (likely one in the middle), coast into it just like the rider in the video did, then pedal hard up the other side. I'd be in my anticipated climbing gear before dropping down into the dip. I could see maybe shifting down a cog on the way up though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Everything looks milder in video than in person of course but I don't think I'd have been in my 10T (or a high gear) entering that particular dip. I'd set up for it before I entered the dip by picking the cog I'd need for climbing (likely one in the middle), coast into it just like the rider in the video did, then pedal hard up the other side. I'd be in my anticipated climbing gear before dropping down into the dip. I could see maybe shifting down a cog on the way up though.
    You're in bend and you've never ridden downieville? Dude. Road trip time. Quincy, downieville, tahoe. Take a week. Ideally 2.
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    You're in bend and you've never ridden downieville? Dude. Road trip time. Quincy, downieville, tahoe. Take a week. Ideally 2.
    Yeah, I suppose. I generally avoid California though and head to to one of the other nearby states or Canada.

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    Quote Originally Posted by austink26 View Post
    I would much rather have to pedal to shift vs coast to shift. I canít imagine climbing the steep stuff and having to ďcoastĒ to get into a lower gear.
    Exactly what I miss about a 3x drive train. One click up front equates to 2.5-3 in the rear. Two clicks up from and you cover 4-5 in the rear. And you could do it while performing a standing uphill grind. But hey, we've improved things... right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    Exactly what I miss about a 3x drive train. One click up front equates to 2.5-3 in the rear.
    1 big click with Shimano rapid-fire will do the same thing. I had triple, then double chainrings and liked them fine but don't miss them one bit now and never have any issues in rapidly changing terrain. If you asked 100 riders I'm guessing at least 90 of them would have no interest in trading their 1x for multiple rings so for the vast majority I don't think triple rings or front derailleurs have any appeal. For those that do though 2 and 3x components are still readily available so no problem there.
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    Another vote for DI2 multi-shift, which works pretty well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    Exactly what I miss about a 3x drive train. One click up front equates to 2.5-3 in the rear. Two clicks up from and you cover 4-5 in the rear. And you could do it while performing a standing uphill grind. But hey, we've improved things... right?
    I donít miss anything about triple chainrings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    1 big click with Shimano rapid-fire will do the same thing. I had triple, then double chainrings and liked them fine but don't miss them one bit now and never have any issues in rapidly changing terrain. If you asked 100 riders I'm guessing at least 90 of them would have no interest in trading their 1x for multiple rings so for the vast majority I don't think triple rings or front derailleurs have any appeal. For those that do though 2 and 3x components are still readily available so no problem there.
    Oh, I completely agree. I'd be one of those 90. I just admit I miss the ease of multi gear downshifts under heavy load the old school way. Honestly, though, that was only really necessary if I wasn't looking ahead and missed planning for a downshift.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    For those that do though 2 and 3x components are still readily available so no problem there.
    Tnakfully, you are right, I shall now put my beloved double on my new, spanking, carbon shiv from <insert brand name here> which I just pulled the trigger on!

    Oh...

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    Quote Originally Posted by uzurpator View Post
    Tnakfully, you are right, I shall now put my beloved double on my new, spanking, carbon shiv from <insert brand name here> which I just pulled the trigger on!

    Oh...


    Well if you want to use antique components I guess you need an antique frame too

    jk of course, but if multi-chainrings were really a priority you could choose a frame that would accept them. Or you could choose one that sacrificed the ability to support a front derailleur in order to improve the overall design. Most don't consider that a compromise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    Oh, I completely agree. I'd be one of those 90. I just admit I miss the ease of multi gear downshifts under heavy load the old school way. Honestly, though, that was only really necessary if I wasn't looking ahead and missed planning for a downshift.
    I donít recall being able to downshift the front under heavy load. Didnít that cause your chain to derail?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I donít recall being able to downshift the front under heavy load. Didnít that cause your chain to derail?
    Well, they don't call it a derailleur for nothing. Every successful shift is a derailment.

    I do think some of the nostalgia for front shifting is also forgetting chainsuck and the other hassles of front derailleurs. And then when Shimano had finally come as close as we ever will to perfecting front shifting, they must have been devastated to find out they had completely missed the boat that SRAM booked every cabin on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    Well, they don't call it a derailleur for nothing. Every successful shift is a derailment.

    I do think some of the nostalgia for front shifting is also forgetting chainsuck and the other hassles of front derailleurs. And then when Shimano had finally come as close as we ever will to perfecting front shifting, they must have been devastated to find out they had completely missed the boat that SRAM booked every cabin on.
    Okay asshole, fine. What I meant is "didn't it cause your chain to drop?" Chain suck too, like you said. I forgot about that feature.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I donít miss anything about triple chainrings.
    Same here. I stopped running 3X on MTBs 20 years ago.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Okay asshole, fine. What I meant is "didn't it cause your chain to drop?" Chain suck too, like you said. I forgot about that feature.
    I figured that was probably what you meant but pedantry is my jam. Every downshift was throwing the chain off the bigger ring and hoping it landed in the right place. As I recall even on a well tuned bike every front shift had just a hint of subtle dread involved that something would go wrong. At least in situations where it would be extra bad if it didn't go well. Front derailleurs are basically really terrible chain guides that move. You could put one of those little gizmos on the seat tube to help keep the chain from dropping down. They worked ok, but once I went 1x on my 10sp setup I have never looked back. I also live where extended brutal climbs are not a thing. I think a case can still be made for running the newest Shimano 2x stuff in very specific conditions.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    I think grip shift works for XC race bikes on nontechnical courses.


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    Why non technical?

  74. #74
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    I now seem to remember that trying to downshift the front under heavy load would often just cause the derailleur to rub the chain without pushing it off the chainring. All you had was return spring pressure trying to move the chain, which wasn't enough unless you backed off from pedaling a little. I'd do a slight almost-sprint, sit down on the saddle to let off my pedal pressure a touch, then downshift the front.

    God, it's been so long since I've had to live with a triple front. I rode single speeds exclusively for about a decade then went straight to 1X drivetrains.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    That's a downside people don't talk about with gripshift. Every shift requires you to move your hand position.

    I've always been grab gears as fast as the bike will shift with triggers, Shimano or SRAM, and I don't shift gently either.

    And...how many times have you been climbing a hill and you accidentally pull back on the right grip and upshift. Terrible. I had exactly one bike with gripshift and I happily threw it in the garbage bin 5 months later, about 4 months too late...
    40% of the population doesn't even understand what a dictatorship is. Or worse...far worse...they don't care.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I now seem to remember that trying to downshift the front under heavy load would often just cause the derailleur to rub the chain without pushing it off the chainring. All you had was return spring pressure trying to move the chain, which wasn't enough unless you backed off from pedaling a little. I'd do a slight almost-sprint, sit down on the saddle to let off my pedal pressure a touch, then downshift the front.

    My xt 2x would downshift under heavy pedal pressure very reliably, I could jam it in the small ring during a steep climb no problem.
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    And...how many times have you been climbing a hill and you accidentally pull back on the right grip and upshift..
    How many times? In 20 years of riding GS...... exactly never.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    My xt 2x would downshift under heavy pedal pressure very reliably, I could jam it in the small ring during a steep climb no problem.
    I could do that when the rings an chain were new, but not after some wear, which shifting under heavy load seems to hasten.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    My xt 2x would downshift under heavy pedal pressure very reliably, I could jam it in the small ring during a steep climb no problem.
    Could you? I should've used what you were using. I don't remember being able to do that, but like I say it was a very long time ago since I've had a front derailleur.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    I could do that when the rings an chain were new, but not after some wear, which shifting under heavy load seems to hasten.

    I guess I've usually been pretty good about replacing drivetrain parts before they're totally worn and never really experience any noticeable degradation in shifting quality. I do start dropping chains a little more often (1x or 2x) when stuff gets a little worn but shifting always seems good.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  81. #81
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    I've got front derailleurs on 3 vintage Mountain bikes. No issues aside from a square taper bb being too narrow to allow the FD to shift to the granny, my bad. FD's aren't bad if you have them setup right. 1x on the newer stuff. Grip shift was lame in 96, still is.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by eshew View Post
    I've got front derailleurs on 3 vintage Mountain bikes. No issues aside from a square taper bb being too narrow to allow the FD to shift to the granny, my bad. FD's aren't bad if you have them setup right. 1x on the newer stuff. Grip shift was lame in 96, still is.
    2016 Stumpjumper FSR has a 2x10 setup still.

    It is fast and flawless to drop to the front ring. I use it fairly often, sometimes it is in a panic situation. Happens on unfamiliar trails or if my fitness is lacking. The local stuff here isn't an issue.

    There is one trail i used it on often. It's a longish downhill, still measured in seconds, with a switchback and more downhill (in seconds) before hitting a sharp dip and a loose climb. The downhill part is also loose and difficult to shift. Most of the times on a downhill I'm shifting 2 or 3 gears lower while 'coasting' down then when I begin to pedal it will downshift and be perfect. This particular section is a little too jagged to comfortably shift, depending on how fast I go. If I'm picking a line taking my time I am able to shift and get a rotation in from time to time. If I am bombing it more aggressively I need to shift at the ditch. At that time I will dowhshift the front ring.

    A few years ago, on a new trail, I found myself needing to dump a lot of gears. Didn't realize there wasn't a runup to the steep pitch out of a corner. I don't thing wither system would have saved me there, it was already too late. Had to bail and shift while off the bike to get going again.

    If not for a rider in front of me I probably could have shifted....I would have needed most of the cassette though, however there wouldn't be space enough to shift a full cassette when figuring in how many pedal rotations would be required to shift through the cassette, regardless how the type of shifter.

    I think there is always a situation for any gear type.
    If a person wants to dump a full cassette during a shift, fine. They probably needed to or the conditions required. Not everybody will need that. Some people are strong enough to do a 7th gear loose rocky climb, therefore no nee to shift more than a gear or two. I'm not that person. I like to shift a bunch.

    Last week I climbed one of the local trails, it's 40 minutes long. Never steep, but has a few punchy spots. I am coming off of a 2 week sickness. I rode a lot of the climb in the small ring, but when I wasn't I was in first gear. At times I felt just tired enough that I needed to relax so I shifted up a few gears and grabbed the front ring in no time. Much easier pedaling in not time. A few days ago our group ride went up the same mountain, I never used the front ring.

    There is another technical bit here as well, a 180 off camber switch back that rolls you down a hill pretty quickly before turning into a creek at more than 90 degrees with all jagged rocks to climb out of. Every time I ride down hit I give myself a few pedals then shift down 2 times (4 Shimano gears), give myself a quick pedal rotation, flip the switch to raise the seat and I'm off and climbing the jagged bit. Not everybody has that success because they don't know how that part of the trail works.
    I was excited to have that skill on race day as I nearly ran into a person who panic braked while at the same time I heard skidding from the rider behind who's front wheel was now in my periphery. A quick line change and I was able to pedal away because I knew I needed to be in the correct gear for the crossing. Rider in front didn't, and/or wasn't aware of deep the rut was entering the turn.

    So yeah, we all ride what works for us.

    Lets not forget that if we have tools to make the ride easier, we are probably over-biked anyway. ;
    A 3x would be a good start to to combat the over-biked problem. LOL

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    And...how many times have you been climbing a hill and you accidentally pull back on the right grip and upshift. Terrible. I had exactly one bike with gripshift and I happily threw it in the garbage bin 5 months later, about 4 months too late...

    I have NEVER EVER accidentally shifted because of my right hand.

    Please dont ever attempt to ride a motorcycle, especially off road. A TON more motion, physical effort, and a MUCH lighter FULL GRIP that moves. You twitch on that thing and it's very, very painful.

    Accidentally shifting a Grip Shift means someone has zero control.
    "Go soothingly in the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon"

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I donít recall being able to downshift the front under heavy load. Didnít that cause your chain to derail?
    Can't speak for all models of front derailleurs, but the LX and XT front derailleurs I had over the years didn't cause chain suck or drop issues. Certainly, if it were out of adjustment, there would be an issue. But no more or less than the same as with a rear derailleur. I do recall spending a lot more time adjusting rear derailleurs than any front derailleur in those days. Now... up-shifting? That was another story. That never worked to my liking. Seems I was always on the hunt for the next best chain rings that had tooth designs that could pull the chain up to the larger ring better than the last set of rings.
    You didn't quit riding because you're old, you're old because you quit riding.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    Can't speak for all models of front derailleurs, but the LX and XT front derailleurs I had over the years didn't cause chain suck or drop issues. Certainly, if it were out of adjustment, there would be an issue. But no more or less than the same as with a rear derailleur. I do recall spending a lot more time adjusting rear derailleurs than any front derailleur in those days. Now... up-shifting? That was another story. That never worked to my liking. Seems I was always on the hunt for the next best chain rings that had tooth designs that could pull the chain up to the larger ring better than the last set of rings.
    Interesting. I had the opposite experience. I recall the Shimano ramped and pinned rings being able to grab the chain and pull it onto the next bigger ring really well.

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    I didnít read all 85 replies so if this has been touched on let me know.

    Maybe Iím just weird but I try to set my bike up where on a normal trail Iím staying in the middle 3 gears of the cassette. For me that happens with a 30t in the front. I can if I want to grab 4 gears at a time. I usually grab 2 or 3 then as the climb or down hill steepens Iíll grab as needed and dictated by whatever the trail is giving me. Only time I ever dump a whole cassette is when I know a big downhill is coming right after a big climb which usually I can get to with 2/3 throws of the lever and Iím pedaling to pick up speed anyway so itís really a non issue.

    I think the OP has just had a different trail experience or is riding weirdly geared which is causing him to need to dump and pick up a lot of gears all at once on a regular basis. Maybe he can chime in with how he runs his gearing, which might shed some light. Or maybe not. Maybe itís just a difference of opinion. For me I hate grip shift but to each their own and Iím not sure Iíve been on a bike with quality grip shifters.


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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    This is a common reply in this thread. It's surprising to me how many of you don't realize what you're missing, but i guess it explains why triggers have been functionally unchanged since their inception.
    Classic "I can't believe you guys don't want this awesome solution for a problem you don't have. It's the greatest thing since the $80 custom Phillips head screwdriver for adjusting your derailleur stops. I'm superior, what's wrong with you dolts?"
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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I have NEVER EVER accidentally shifted because of my right hand.

    Please dont ever attempt to ride a motorcycle, especially off road. A TON more motion, physical effort, and a MUCH lighter FULL GRIP that moves. You twitch on that thing and it's very, very painful.

    Accidentally shifting a Grip Shift means someone has zero control.
    Yeah, moved on from Grip Shift years ago but I never, never, ever accidentally shifted. Never understood that complaint.
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec44 View Post
    Classic "I can't believe you guys don't want this awesome solution for a problem you don't have. It's the greatest thing since the $80 custom Phillips head screwdriver for adjusting your derailleur stops. I'm superior, what's wrong with you dolts?"
    haha OK.
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  90. #90
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    One of the things I liked about GS when I was running a front derailleur was the micro-indexing. Made things very accommodating of mismatched chains/rings/FD, worn ramps and pins, and the FD being out of adjustment.

    These were my favorite model. It is from 2 decades ago. compact (does not push the brakes in too far), very light, dead simple (why they ever felt the need to complicate the gear indicator is beyond me), and a very direct feel. I have not liked any of the models I have tried since as much.

    Also, the 7.0, 9.0, and 9.0SL were all the identical shifter, just different colors.

    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    When in doubt, go singlespeed.
    Fully agree! Go single speed!

    Or get a Trigger Shifter and be very happy. Fast (my Shimano XTR/XT is basically istantaneous), precise, never miss a shift, butter smooth and effortless. Four gears up or down with two clicks ... although I never need to do that, two gears shift with one click is plenty in an "emergency"

    Gripshift? I was on grip shift for my first 20 years of MTB and I still have a GS front on my city bike. Yes, you can downshift (not up shift) a bunch in a handful, but they force your hand in one position on the bar ... and on one side only now that we are on 1x! I feel much more secure with my trigger shifter when in ragged terrain, stairs, jumps. The trigger is nicely and cleanly out of the way (thanks i-spec-II), hand on a solid piece of grip .... not on a rotating one

    Go Trigger!
    Last edited by Davide; 01-12-2020 at 01:38 PM.

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    Hmm if only there was a way to make a drastic gear change in one motion.

    I'm just spitballing here, but I think some day, someone will figure out how to change gears at the crank. You have two ring with a large different in teeth. I'd call it a front derailleur.
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