2018 Shimano XTR 12-speed - Page 8- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    It's not hard at all. I'd say it's paper thickness at most. Probably thinner. I put my calipers on it and looks to be 0.15mm thick.
    Cool, thanks. I followed up with my supplier and I just got word they did finally get some and are going to send me a couple. I am getting maybe a hint of noise with only a few rides on it, so it certainly won't hurt to have it in there.

  2. #1402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    How thick and what is the hardness of that shim anyway? I still haven't got my hands on one, the place I bought my cassette from was supposed to track one down for me but that hasn't happened, and I haven't gotten around to it otherwise.
    semi-soft? feels like a lexan

  3. #1403
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    So I have XT 12 on older Bronson, non-boost, 2015. Sram 1400 gxp cranks (64/104). Right now it's running with a raceface 30t n/w chainring. Sram quicklink, a little noisy but I'm okay with it.

    Developed some knee pain after testing out a new Ibis Ripley all weekend and then went back to my bike. Don't know the cause (could be the Ripley, which only manifested after I got back on my bike, could be I rode a lot that weekend more than normal).

    Anyway, severe knee pain after 6 miles now. Took two weeks off, still had pain. So I'm looking to ease it up a little. I hear Ovals might help. Also maybe easier gears for now.

    My choices are limited because of the 104bcd. I can choose:

    1 - WT shimano 12 speed compatible 32t oval, or
    2 - AB oval Non-Shimano 12sp, 30t.

    anyone using the AB non-12sp specific with no problems?

    EDIT: I guess AB now has a 104bcd shimano 12sp Oval. I didn't see that a month ago, somehow I missed it.

    So now it's 32 12sp specific, or 30t 12sp specific from AB.

    Does the 32t oval feel similar to a round 30t? I mean, I'm rarely in my 51t I just need to use it more instead of trying to power through it (possibly causing my knee pain).

  4. #1404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So you have a Microspline driver designed for your hub? I don't understand why it would need to be modified, it's a driver, so if it fits the hub then it will work in any frame that has the correct hub spacing.

    If you can't spin the cassette with the axle tight, look at whether the cassette is clearing the spokes; you may need a cassette spacer. Spacers are common, they come in all thicknesses, get the thinnest that'll allow the freewheel to spin freely, Hope, I9, and Onyx require spacers in some instances depending on cassette and wheel build.
    It was discussed in previous pages. But the new DT Swiss microspline adapter doesn't work with older DT swiss hubs. I have an old Roval carbon set, which apparently also uses the old dt swiss hubs. There is a slight flange that rubs with the hub.

    My buddy works at some cnc/milling whatever factory. He smoothed it out for me. All good now.

  5. #1405
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    So I have XT 12 on older Bronson, non-boost, 2015. Sram 1400 gxp cranks (64/104). Right now it's running with a raceface 30t n/w chainring. Sram quicklink, a little noisy but I'm okay with it.

    Developed some knee pain after testing out a new Ibis Ripley all weekend and then went back to my bike. Don't know the cause (could be the Ripley, which only manifested after I got back on my bike, could be I rode a lot that weekend more than normal).

    Anyway, severe knee pain after 6 miles now. Took two weeks off, still had pain. So I'm looking to ease it up a little. I hear Ovals might help. Also maybe easier gears for now.

    My choices are limited because of the 104bcd. I can choose:

    1 - WT shimano 12 speed compatible 32t oval, or
    2 - AB oval Non-Shimano 12sp, 30t.

    anyone using the AB non-12sp specific with no problems?

    EDIT: I guess AB now has a 104bcd shimano 12sp Oval. I didn't see that a month ago, somehow I missed it.

    So now it's 32 12sp specific, or 30t 12sp specific from AB.

    Does the 32t oval feel similar to a round 30t? I mean, I'm rarely in my 51t I just need to use it more instead of trying to power through it (possibly causing my knee pain).
    Knee pain might be from saddle improper height.
    Also too much forward or backward.
    Maybe the other bike created it and a few days of will let it disappear.

  6. #1406
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    Developed some knee pain after testing out a new Ibis Ripley all weekend and then went back to my bike. Don't know the cause (could be the Ripley, which only manifested after I got back on my bike, could be I rode a lot that weekend more than normal).
    Step 1: Rest until no pain
    Step 2: If pain persists after resting, see doctor.
    Step 3: I fail to see how drivetrain is a factor here.

  7. #1407
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    Knee pain might be from saddle improper height.
    Also too much forward or backward.
    Maybe the other bike created it and a few days of will let it disappear.
    This. Sudden onset knee pain from riding a different bike sounds like the bike really didn't fit you well and caused an issue, or exacerbated an issue that was just under the radar.

    As background, the Ripley has a VERY steep seat tube angle that positions you way forwards relative to your Bronson..this places A LOT more load on your quads...which can be a recipe for knee pain.

    You tell us that you have "sever knee pain". That's your body saying that it's really unhappy. I'd listen to it, and go and see a physical therapist to
    - understand what's going on and what's causing your pain, the root cause of the issue.
    - how to treat the cause of your pain e.g. strengthen certain muscles
    - get some massage done on areas that might be too tight

  8. #1408
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    yes I am aware it may be all of that. That's why I said it might be the ripley, or fit (though I've ridden fine on the Brony for 4 years), or over use.

    But I also tend to use one gear harder than is comfy in an effort to replace my squats at the gym since I have been riding more than working out. So I'll mash the pedals and my leg movements become more up and down than round and round. Both of those may also contribute to knee pain.

    I took 2 weeks off and first time back on the saddle, it returned after 6-7 miles. I have no pain walking around after. Or jumping, or air squatting. Just pedaling on my bronson, which I rode fine for 4 years with no issues.

    I realize it can be ANY of that. Bike fit on the Bronson just doesn't sound like it should be an issue because ... well I've ridden the Bronson since 2015. I've ridden tons of other bikes that don't fit me right, including an SB100, Intense Tracer, Yeti SB130 that were too large for me (my friends' bikes) for much longer rides.

    So it could be any of it. So I'm in the process of elimination, and wanting to keep my gearing easier so if it is indeed me mashing on the pedals uphill I want to have easier gears just in case. We do around 20k elevation a month. Indeed, the last couple times, lowering it to the easiest gear eased the pain.

    So if the AB oval that is not designed for Shimano 12sp works just fine, I'd rather get that so the easiest gear is easier than on the HG+ compatible AB oval.

    Reading back, it seems others have not had an issue so I may go with that unless someone has another opinion? I wish AB made a 30t oval that is HG+ compatible.

  9. #1409
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    yes I am aware it may be all of that. That's why I said it might be the ripley, or fit (though I've ridden fine on the Brony for 4 years), or over use.

    But I also tend to use one gear harder than is comfy in an effort to replace my squats at the gym since I have been riding more than working out. So I'll mash the pedals and my leg movements become more up and down than round and round. Both of those may also contribute to knee pain.

    I took 2 weeks off and first time back on the saddle, it returned after 6-7 miles. I have no pain walking around after. Or jumping, or air squatting. Just pedaling on my bronson, which I rode fine for 4 years with no issues.

    I realize it can be ANY of that. Bike fit on the Bronson just doesn't sound like it should be an issue because ... well I've ridden the Bronson since 2015. I've ridden tons of other bikes that don't fit me right, including an SB100, Intense Tracer, Yeti SB130 that were too large for me (my friends' bikes) for much longer rides.

    So it could be any of it. So I'm in the process of elimination, and wanting to keep my gearing easier so if it is indeed me mashing on the pedals uphill I want to have easier gears just in case. We do around 20k elevation a month. Indeed, the last couple times, lowering it to the easiest gear eased the pain.

    So if the AB oval that is not designed for Shimano 12sp works just fine, I'd rather get that so the easiest gear is easier than on the HG+ compatible AB oval.

    Reading back, it seems others have not had an issue so I may go with that unless someone has another opinion? I wish AB made a 30t oval that is HG+ compatible.
    Up north(quebec) about 4-5 years ago many bought a Norco fatbike 18 speeds. To fit a wider tire they went 1 ring. To climb they went Oval. It is a bandaid for a poor transmission with not enough range. A 12 S Oval is not needed.

  10. #1410
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    I just tought, if 2 weeks did not help, it might be new shoes?
    new pedals?
    cleat moved?
    new crank arms lenght?

  11. #1411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Oneup told me quite some time ago that it'll be awhile before they have HG+ compatible rings. Are you certain that it's not just the quick link that is the problem everyone else has?
    I've been exchanging emails with OneUp. The latest update said the Shimano HG+ 12-speed compatible Switch chainrings will be ready for sale right around the first week of November.

  12. #1412
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    Quick question guys when setting up the b tension with the marking on the rear mech are you setting it up with shock fully deflated or not bothering and just doing it as normal air pressure in??? On a full suss bike of course

  13. #1413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didzy2009 View Post
    Quick question guys when setting up the b tension with the marking on the rear mech are you setting it up with shock fully deflated or not bothering and just doing it as normal air pressure in??? On a full suss bike of course
    Complete instructions are at the link below..........



    http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-MARD001-00-ENG.pdf
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  14. #1414
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom tom View Post
    Complete instructions are at the link below..........



    http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-MARD001-00-ENG.pdf
    Cheers but it doesn't even mention anything other than setting it up to align the marker.. Doesn't state whether that's stationary or whether full suss or not!? Unless I'm being blind

  15. #1415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didzy2009 View Post
    are you setting it up with shock fully deflated or not bothering and just doing it as normal air pressure in??? On a full suss bike of course
    It would not hurt to do it like Scram GX and set it with rider sag. It only change 1 mm so its not a huge difference between sag and non sag.

    I like setting B screw to where it shifts the best at its lowest possible setting.

  16. #1416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didzy2009 View Post
    Cheers but it doesn't even mention anything other than setting it up to align the marker.. Doesn't state whether that's stationary or whether full suss or not!? Unless I'm being blind
    It states that chain length is different for full suspension and hardtails and guides you to ensure you have enough chain length for your frame's chain growth.

    I followed their instructions "to a T" and it works admirably on my F/S frame. (B-screw was set static, bike on the stand)

    2018 Shimano XTR 12-speed-capture-1.jpg2018 Shimano XTR 12-speed-capture2.jpg
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  17. #1417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mac View Post
    thats fantastic thanks much, what going on witht chain specks slx cheaper and lighter??? what am I missing??
    Sorry, looks like a mis-type:

    SLX CN-M7100, 252g, $31,99 usd
    XT CN-8100, 252g, $43,99 usd
    XTR CN-9100, 242g, $64,99 usd

  18. #1418
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    Today I managed to brake lower part of outer cage on my rd-m9100 sgs (under the bolt). Derailleur is still working normally. It looks itís just ďbeautyĒ failure, only lower part of lower pulley (and therefore chain on that place) is not covered or protected from outer side.

    Do you think is worth replacing outer cage? Will outer cage from xt work normally or itís better to invest in new xtr one? AFAIK only difference is materiel used, or?

  19. #1419
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    Take a look here at the differences between the XT and XTR - https://youtu.be/ovNCyKGKMvk
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  20. #1420
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    Thanks!
    Hereís a photo:
    2018 Shimano XTR 12-speed-f1aea808-9cfd-442f-a634-d96f61c0e4c4.jpg
    2018 Shimano XTR 12-speed-b740d10a-c2d4-4bc8-aa5f-94a9e20229b6.jpg
    Worth changing it?
    If yes, Iíll probably buy xt and just take outer cage from it and replaced it on xtr. Cheaper than xtr outer cage + more spare parts

  21. #1421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matija899 View Post
    Worth changing it?
    If yes, Iíll probably buy xt and just take outer cage from it and replaced it on xtr. Cheaper than xtr outer cage + more spare parts
    I would just clean up the rough edges with a Dremel and ride on. As long as the damage doesn't get any closer to the pulley bolt than it appears in the picture and the derailleur is performing normally you are good. I would consider removing the part that now forms a hook, if you are in an area where there is loose vegetation and stuff that it might grab. I think it would fill up with moss fairly quick here. If there are any other reasons you need to fix it, you will know soon enough.

    Edit- OK I did miss one obvious issue, I should have had my coffee before replying, and you may be well aware of this, but the chain is not going to be retained on the jockey. Which could lead to a serious drivetrain kerfluffle. So yeah, I would buy another derailleur and consider this one spare parts for future damage. Or fix the cage, which is possible but not worth getting into working with carbon just for one component.
    Last edited by Velodonata; 10-27-2019 at 08:07 AM.

  22. #1422
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    Any long term experience on if the new splined hub also get those notches from the cassette?

  23. #1423
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    Check it out here - https://youtu.be/GbdhqXtVlMQ
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  24. #1424
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    Quote Originally Posted by mevnet View Post
    Check it out here - https://youtu.be/GbdhqXtVlMQ
    1:55 and 3:15 shows scoring on the microspline, but it's difficult to say how bad. Hard to imagine why shimano is still doing loose cogs down low, especially 4 on XTR and 5 on XT.

    Still, hard to say how bad this is in the video, maybe not really bad. He only used it for 2 months though. I reckon in a month or two we should start to have a lot of users that have used it for approximately a year or so. Then the data should start to get a lot more reliable and indicative of whether there's a continuing issue or not.
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  25. #1425
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    Check the last photo on the article to see some gouging on the micro splines. It's not much but I would prefer that they were not there at all.

    https://singletrackworld.com/2019/06...-frustrations/

  26. #1426
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    Quote Originally Posted by mevnet View Post
    Check it out here - https://youtu.be/GbdhqXtVlMQ
    What the heck?
    So the 10T cog can't fit, or will not sit directly on the new microspline hub, but holds onto the next smaller cog?
    Than why even bother making a new freehub design?
    They could have done this with the old HG design too by making the hub bodys lenght a little bit smaller.
    And even if the microspline body has more splines this won't do any good for avoiding some gauging, right?

  27. #1427
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTrustMan View Post
    So the 10T cog can't fit, or will not sit directly on the new microspline hub, but holds onto the next smaller cog?
    Yes. That is the design. Pretty much the same as XD does.

    Than why even bother making a new freehub design?
    They could have done this with the old HG design too by making the hub bodys lenght a little bit smaller.
    They already did, years ago on a Capreo groupset. HG freehub is designed to be made of steel - whence shallow splines and just 9 of them. Worked fine on road cassettes in 1984. On mammoth 50T mountain cassettes of 2019 - not so much.

    And even if the microspline body has more splines this won't do any good for avoiding some gauging, right?
    Depends. Stamping is not a hyper-precise process so a new cog needs to seat itsself on the spline before it is held on it securely. From the pictures provided - it seems to be cosmetic only. My CK freehub with stainless steel body had such marks as well.

  28. #1428
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    This is getting long.
    A resune
    - more $$
    - more issues

  29. #1429
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    Quote Originally Posted by uzurpator View Post
    Yes. That is the design. Pretty much the same as XD does.
    That's not what I mean.
    XD does not have splines. But if the smallest cog on a splined alloy hub isn't directly on the hub, wouldn't this put more pressure on the other outher splines?

    And I agree on the rest of your answers.
    We will just have to wait for at least 1 years reviews I guess.
    But I still think steel is the way to go for this new design aswell.
    I had steel HG hubs and the only thing you need to watch out is rust in winter.

  30. #1430
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTrustMan View Post
    That's not what I mean.
    XD does not have splines. But if the smallest cog on a splined alloy hub isn't directly on the hub, wouldn't this put more pressure on the other outher splines?
    The 10t has shallow external splines of a sort that seat into a matching recess on the 12t, they are both steel and once they are assembled together they are essentially one piece, directly under the lockring and engaged on the splines of the 12t to the freehub body. The same splines are taking the load from both cogs, but only one at a time so there won't be any excessive loading on the freehub. That entire stack of 4 loose cogs could be made in one piece, but that's not how Shimano has ever done it and I don't expect they are going to change now since it has worked well for them for a long time.

  31. #1431
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    Also the smallest sprockets as loose is great so you can change them once worn out. This is especially important in e-bikes.

  32. #1432
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboKoo View Post
    Also the smallest sprockets as loose is great so you can change them once worn out. This is especially important in e-bikes.
    Show me where you buy these.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  33. #1433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Show me where you buy these.
    https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cassette...12t-y1x498020/

  34. #1434
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    Touchť. Those donít really wear out for most of us, itís usually the bigger gears that slip first.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  35. #1435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Touchť. Those donít really wear out for most of us, itís usually the bigger gears that slip first.
    True, the new XTR does shift very smooth. But the larger cogs being softer than steel to get the weight down vs all one unit is my only turn off.

  36. #1436
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    If thatís your concern you can just use SLX cassette as that has only one alloy sprocket and rest steel.

  37. #1437
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    My xtr rear mech is almost a year old now... Has tonnes of side to side play with no chain on, my mates brand new one doesn't have this at all, so not entirely sure what's worn on it but it's very loose, and my shifting has gone pretty crappy too

    I'm 6 motnhs into the xtr cassette and altho it shifts OK it's not super smooth up and down the cassette, it's hesitant in various gears and clicks in some gears

    I have setup exactly the same a few times now just incase I missed something but its not the saem quality from new

    I don't expect it to be though but if the mech play is causing it more so then I need to take a look at getting it warrantied

    I'm going to post a short vid of the play in the mech later today to see if you think it's normal

    Will be pretty disappointed if my cassette is worn 6 months in, I swapped the chain 3 months in to make sure I didn't over use it and wear the sprockets

    If the mechs buggered ill likely get a new xt mech and xt cassette hopefully then it will work like new again

  38. #1438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didzy2009 View Post
    My xtr rear mech is almost a year old now... Has tonnes of side to side play with no chain on, my mates brand new one doesn't have this at all, so not entirely sure what's worn on it but it's very loose, and my shifting has gone pretty crappy too

    I'm 6 motnhs into the xtr cassette and altho it shifts OK it's not super smooth up and down the cassette, it's hesitant in various gears and clicks in some gears

    I have setup exactly the same a few times now just incase I missed something but its not the saem quality from new

    I don't expect it to be though but if the mech play is causing it more so then I need to take a look at getting it warrantied

    I'm going to post a short vid of the play in the mech later today to see if you think it's normal

    Will be pretty disappointed if my cassette is worn 6 months in, I swapped the chain 3 months in to make sure I didn't over use it and wear the sprockets

    If the mechs buggered ill likely get a new xt mech and xt cassette hopefully then it will work like new again
    Have you been shifting under load?

  39. #1439
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    Have you been shifting under load?
    yeh I guess so, ive been using it as I would any other drivertrain, one of the benefits is how smooth it is under load, I cant say as that's really changed much in terms of quality, its more niggly little things like slow shifting, and clicks, and then randomly jumping on some smaller cogs when trying to shift up - again reset all numerous times so not a setup issue and ive put a new mech hanger on just to check

  40. #1440
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    It's just the cage that have play, or it's across the entire derailleur's body?
    If it's just the cage, you may have worn the seal between the cage and the derailleur's body. It's a seal but it also works as a kind of bushing and you can replace it.
    For the RD-M9100 goggle Y3FA62000 -- P-Seal Ring.

  41. #1441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    It's just the cage that have play, or it's across the entire derailleur's body?
    If it's just the cage, you may have worn the seal between the cage and the derailleur's body. It's a seal but it also works as a kind of bushing and you can replace it.
    For the RD-M9100 goggle Y3FA62000 -- P-Seal Ring.
    im really not sure if its the cage, if I pull at the lower jockey wheel area of the cage, you can really feel it being loose/play, it almost feels like a screw is half loose or something

    I kinda from feel think its nearer to the mech itself (around the pins that shift the spring up and down the cassette) but its really hard to tell, I believe shimano is 2 yr warranty so I will be trying my luck at that first rather than taking it all apart

  42. #1442
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    just for refernce - cassette since brand new has done 766 miles (there abouts!) ive had 2 chains on since new....so not a huge amout of mileage, very gritty mucky riding mind including summer and probably 100k+ vertical feet climb in those 766 miles (live in a hilly area)

    mech was brand new October 19 when xtr was first released - so its either the play on the mech or the wear in the cassette....

  43. #1443
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    My main bolt into the hanger came loose after a couple of months. Had the same symptoms you describe. Check that first. It's been fine since (January).

  44. #1444
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    Quote Originally Posted by andynunn View Post
    My main bolt into the hanger came loose after a couple of months. Had the same symptoms you describe. Check that first. It's been fine since (January).
    ive had the mech off the hanger several times, if you just mean the bolt that attaches it to the mech drop out hanger?

  45. #1445
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    Yes, that one. In 30 years I've never had one come loose before but it was awkward to put back as the pivot seal was loose and kept getting trapped. It wasn't just the bolt loosening. The whole pivot assembly came apart just a bit. It looked OK but there was a lot of play at the cage and the shifting was slightly off.

  46. #1446
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    Quote Originally Posted by andynunn View Post
    Yes, that one. In 30 years I've never had one come loose before but it was awkward to put back as the pivot seal was loose and kept getting trapped. It wasn't just the bolt loosening. The whole pivot assembly came apart just a bit. It looked OK but there was a lot of play at the cage and the shifting was slightly off.
    cheers - thought you meant that one, I have had it off a lot and cleaned and checked everything, tbh it feels like the play Is mostly around that area somewhere but I cant pinpoint exacltly where, its just more obvious when you push side to side on the lower cage as its more exagurrated further away from the mech

  47. #1447
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    As promised video of my mech

    https://youtu.be/tzTmOhZGzcM

    Doesn't look right at all, when I move it, it doesn't return back, it's all sloppy and floppy like the pivots or pins have given up... I guess my upshifting is crappy as there appears to no tension in the mech.. Just doesn't look right and not how I remember it being new

  48. #1448
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    Where are you located? I would ask LBS to check warranty on that.

  49. #1449
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboKoo View Post
    Where are you located? I would ask LBS to check warranty on that.
    I'm england.... Yeh I'm going to send it off to them and he's said hell send it in for warranty

    Not normal at all, not sure what's happened it's just 11 months old, but it's not been battered or anything, hoping they warranty it as its got a 2yr warranty on xtr stuff and they are a fortune to replace

  50. #1450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didzy2009 View Post
    I'm england.... Yeh I'm going to send it off to them and he's said hell send it in for warranty

    Not normal at all, not sure what's happened it's just 11 months old, but it's not been battered or anything, hoping they warranty it as its got a 2yr warranty on xtr stuff and they are a fortune to replace
    You sure you need to involve the LBS? Its one thing I like about Shimano vs Sram. The one thing I needed warranty on I went straight to Shimano US.
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  51. #1451
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    You sure you need to involve the LBS? Its one thing I like about Shimano vs Sram. The one thing I needed warranty on I went straight to Shimano US.
    Yeh we have to send it via the importer for shimano which is madison, as far as i know there's no direct shimano hq in the uk

  52. #1452
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    Dear XTR's.

    After running set of XTR 900 and Sram 11x casette it's time to 12x switch.

    Unfortunately mentime i've moved to new bike and 12x157 RF wheels.

    Is there a freehub from RF compatibile with micro-spline?
    Can i mix sram 12x casette and Shimano 9100 drivetrain (to keep XD freehub)?
    Does 10-51 casette require SGS or can be used with SG?

  53. #1453
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    Answers below
    QUOTE=Placek;14421395 - Dear XTR's.

    After running set of XTR 900 and Sram 11x casette it's time to 12x switch.

    Unfortunately mentime i've moved to new bike and 12x157 RF wheels.

    Is there a freehub from RF compatibile with micro-spline?
    Check with RF

    Can i mix sram 12x casette and Shimano 9100 drivetrain (to keep XD freehub)?

    Yes, watch this - https://youtu.be/g4l_O1qtJ8I

    Does 10-51 casette require SGS or can be used with SG? /QUOTE

    There's only SGS offered by Shimano, look for M7100/ M8100/ M9100 derailleurs.
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  54. #1454
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    Quote Originally Posted by mevnet View Post
    Answers below
    QUOTE=Placek;14421395 - Dear XTR's.

    After running set of XTR 900 and Sram 11x casette it's time to 12x switch.

    Unfortunately mentime i've moved to new bike and 12x157 RF wheels.

    Is there a freehub from RF compatibile with micro-spline?
    Check with RF

    Can i mix sram 12x casette and Shimano 9100 drivetrain (to keep XD freehub)?

    Yes, watch this - https://youtu.be/g4l_O1qtJ8I

    Does 10-51 casette require SGS or can be used with SG? /QUOTE

    There's only SGS offered by Shimano, look for M7100/ M8100/ M9100 derailleurs.
    Thanks a lot.

    Questions.
    1. Can i use the regular SRAM 11x freehub with new 12x SRAM casette?
    2. Can i use new xtr 9100 chain with sram 12x casette and 12x Shimano dir?
    3.

  55. #1455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Thanks a lot.

    Questions.
    1. Can i use the regular SRAM 11x freehub with new 12x SRAM casette?
    2. Can i use new xtr 9100 chain with sram 12x casette and 12x Shimano dir?
    3.
    1. No.
    2. Yes.
    3. Maybe.

  56. #1456
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    Just upgraded to the new XT M8100 after patiently waiting it out despite the Eagle's availability.

    Boy is it god damn worth it. The shifting is simply sublime. Can't wait for HG+ to trickle down to the next road 12 speed group.

    One thing for sure, I finally need to upsize my chainring to 34T. The cassette ratio really does allow you to go 2T higher than sram eagle equivalent.

  57. #1457
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    im sure this has been covered here but im admittedly being lazy.. :

    Can i use a Sram Eagle 12spd chainring w/ a Shimano xtr 12spd chain?
    (obviously in conjunction with 12spd xtr cassette/der/shifter)

    thanks

  58. #1458
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    could anyone tell me if an 11 speed chain will work with 12 speed chainrings?

    looking at upgrading my cranks on my 11 speed drivetrain.

  59. #1459
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiss2 View Post
    im sure this has been covered here but im admittedly being lazy.. :

    Can i use a Sram Eagle 12spd chainring w/ a Shimano xtr 12spd chain?
    (obviously in conjunction with 12spd xtr cassette/der/shifter)

    thanks
    Nope, has to be an HG+ one.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

  60. #1460
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiss2 View Post
    im sure this has been covered here but im admittedly being lazy.. :

    Can i use a Sram Eagle 12spd chainring w/ a Shimano xtr 12spd chain?
    (obviously in conjunction with 12spd xtr cassette/der/shifter)

    thanks
    When using regular 12 speed rings you need a sram quick link as the shimano link is too narrow. I use sram link with raceface ring on my bike.

  61. #1461
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicShite View Post
    Just upgraded to the new XT M8100 after patiently waiting it out despite the Eagle's availability.

    Boy is it god damn worth it. The shifting is simply sublime. Can't wait for HG+ to trickle down to the next road 12 speed group.

    One thing for sure, I finally need to upsize my chainring to 34T. The cassette ratio really does allow you to go 2T higher than sram eagle equivalent.
    ????? Huh, How does the math work on that one?
    10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-50
    10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51

    The effective change between the two cassettes on a gear ratio and gear development plot isn't significant, especially not a 2T increase on the Chainring!!
    In effect you're just trying to equalise the gear ratios so you get the same speed. Why bother??!! In fact you wil reduce your effective gear range because if you're running a 32T on the SRAM drivetrain you still won't be strong enough to handle the taller midrange and top end gearing

  62. #1462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad View Post
    ????? Huh, How does the math work on that one?
    His username checks out...

  63. #1463
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    Quote Originally Posted by brex17 View Post
    1. No.
    2. Yes.
    3. Maybe.
    A bit concerned.

    1.Last year XD freehub is listed as 11 and 12x than?
    2. Which chain would fit better to Eagle casette and Shimano 9100 dir?

  64. #1464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad View Post
    ????? Huh, How does the math work on that one?
    10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-50
    10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51

    The effective change between the two cassettes on a gear ratio and gear development plot isn't significant, especially not a 2T increase on the Chainring!!
    In effect you're just trying to equalise the gear ratios so you get the same speed. Why bother??!! In fact you wil reduce your effective gear range because if you're running a 32T on the SRAM drivetrain you still won't be strong enough to handle the taller midrange and top end gearing
    Sigh

    I made the math on another thread

    https://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...l#post14282425

    In essence, when you climb anything of significance (real long and steep climbs), the most important thing are the last three big cogs of the cassette. How well you can play with those is important. Using 34T on the shimano cassette, you only lose about .1 ratio from the sram equivalent with a 32T.

    Using 34T also allows you to go slightly faster on the flats without using the 10T too much, which is VERY important before entering the slow grindy single tracks. I see it as a win win.

  65. #1465
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicShite View Post
    Sigh

    I made the math on another thread

    https://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...l#post14282425

    In essence, when you climb anything of significance (real long and steep climbs), the most important thing are the last three big cogs of the cassette. How well you can play with those is important. Using 34T on the shimano cassette, you only lose about .1 ratio from the sram equivalent with a 32T.

    Using 34T also allows you to go slightly faster on the flats without using the 10T too much, which is VERY important before entering the slow grindy single tracks. I see it as a win win.
    I agree, I have a 36 on my XTR bike and the top three are way better than the SRAM gearing when your pushing the limits of required climbing gears. I actually run a 38 on my AXS bike but it's a fixed seat XC rig more oriented for faster flater trails.

    I also find AXS to be a better drivetrain for shifting accuracy when your really gassed. XTR I prefer for more tech and shifting under climbing loads. AXS clutch also is not as strong take that for what its worth.

  66. #1466
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicShite View Post
    Sigh
    Using 34T also allows you to go slightly faster on the flats without using the 10T too much, which is VERY important before entering the slow grindy single tracks. I see it as a win win.
    Maybe in theory, but with a lot of high level racing behind me over the last few seasons, I'd say in practice, it's cadence that is a much more determining factor. Spinning a fast cadence is not always comfortable, but almost always faster in the long run, more efficient for your muscles so it saves them and still makes you go faster. Although most top level racers don't need ridiculous combos like 28x52, they also don't see any benefit from lugging around big chainrings, because even when you have these bigger/high gears, you simply don't pedal them fast enough cadence-wise to really be faster and efficient. It's more resistance, which sometimes feels good, but IME, there's no actual benefit. I'm not saying that no one should run a 34, just that the logic of running it to make you go faster isn't sound in my experience.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  67. #1467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    A bit concerned.

    1.Last year XD freehub is listed as 11 and 12x than?
    2. Which chain would fit better to Eagle casette and Shimano 9100 dir?
    SRAM uses the same freehub body for 11spd cassettes as for 12spd mtn cassettes. There's ZERO difference. There is an XDR freehub body, but that's road only, and requires a totally different hub. It's not relevant here.

    You're better off matching cassette and chain brand. You COULD use a Shimano chain with an Eagle quick link, but what's the point when you could just buy a SRAM chain and use the included quick link? You could use a KMC 12spd chain if you prefer those.

  68. #1468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Maybe in theory, but with a lot of high level racing behind me over the last few seasons, I'd say in practice, it's cadence that is a much more determining factor. Spinning a fast cadence is not always comfortable, but almost always faster in the long run, more efficient for your muscles so it saves them and still makes you go faster. Although most top level racers don't need ridiculous combos like 28x52, they also don't see any benefit from lugging around big chainrings, because even when you have these bigger/high gears, you simply don't pedal them fast enough cadence-wise to really be faster and efficient. It's more resistance, which sometimes feels good, but IME, there's no actual benefit. I'm not saying that no one should run a 34, just that the logic of running it to make you go faster isn't sound in my experience.

    For regular people that don't get a new bike every race it's best to use the largest ring you can. I run big rings because using a 10 tooth sprocket is unrealistic unreasonable and can slip very easily. Small sprockets wear extremely quickly and it's easy to kill a cassette in the small sprockets in a single long ride with a few road transfers. XTR 10 tooth is only engaged with a single tooth on the chain... if you aren't using your pie plate you should up your chainring

  69. #1469
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04 F2000SL View Post
    For regular people that don't get a new bike every race it's best to use the largest ring you can.
    the above seems to contradict the below, in all honesty.

    Quote Originally Posted by 04 F2000SL View Post
    if you aren't using your pie plate you should up your chainring
    I don't agree with this method of selecting gearing. For one, a 10-51 cassette is most likely more RANGE than the majority of riders are going to use. It's a big part of the reason I selected the 10-45 cassette to build my drivetrain around. Problem is, Shimano was only thinking of racers when they considered that cassette. And that "regular" riders would all gravitate towards the 10-51 cassette. Frankly, I have no desire to go back to super long cage derailleurs. I'd rather run the shortest cage I can for crisper shifting, better chain stability, and keeping the derailleur away from trailside debris.

    I'm definitely a midpack "mortal" rider. I care about having low end for big/long climbs. I don't much care about big top end gearing because if I'm going that fast, I'm coasting downhill or I grab a different bike. There's a couple things I look at when I'm selecting gearing. For one, I want to maximize the range of the cassette that I actually use. Both ends of it. It spreads wear across the cassette rather than focusing it any particular place. I also look to run the chain towards the middle of the cassette for most of my riding for straighter chainlines. I also look for the big cog to be what I use on the biggest, steepest climbs or for smaller ones only when I'm trashed from a hard ride.

    I started with a 30t chainring in my drivetrain because that's the smallest that any of the aftermarket companies are making for my cranks (RF) that's officially compatible with HG+. It put me in the big cog on the cassette too much, and was still too tall of a gear for the steepest, longest climbs. I found that I was blowing myself up super early on my rides and it wasn't good. I went back to a "not compatible" 28t chainring using the Eagle quick link to make it work in order to get the gearing I wanted. It has the benefit of also being steel, so it's cheap and durable, and I really don't need to worry about it wearing out super fast.

  70. #1470
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04 F2000SL View Post
    For regular people that don't get a new bike every race it's best to use the largest ring you can. I run big rings because using a 10 tooth sprocket is unrealistic unreasonable and can slip very easily. Small sprockets wear extremely quickly and it's easy to kill a cassette in the small sprockets in a single long ride with a few road transfers. XTR 10 tooth is only engaged with a single tooth on the chain... if you aren't using your pie plate you should up your chainring
    I'm a stronger rider and you should use what suits your terrain. We have 20%+ grades and need the 30x50/51. Even then I'm outside of my optimum range in some spots, dropping down to sub 60 rpm. I almost never use my 10 tooth on dirt, so it will last forever.

    On my race bike I need the top end and use a 32 for the sprints and pacelines. It's no fun to climb on at non race pace though.

    Most recreational riders should be sizing down and keeping the RMP higher. Pushing a big gear is always slower.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  71. #1471
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04 F2000SL View Post
    For regular people that don't get a new bike every race it's best to use the largest ring you can. I run big rings because using a 10 tooth sprocket is unrealistic unreasonable and can slip very easily. Small sprockets wear extremely quickly and it's easy to kill a cassette in the small sprockets in a single long ride with a few road transfers. XTR 10 tooth is only engaged with a single tooth on the chain... if you aren't using your pie plate you should up your chainring
    A 32 is not going to wear "extremely quickly" compared to a 34. I agree with if you aren't using your full range of rear gears that you need to up your chainring size, but sometimes that's only because you don't ride the steeper/extended stuff as often. I find for normal riders AND racing that not having a 34 or 36t front ring does NOT hold them back in terms of speed.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  72. #1472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    SRAM uses the same freehub body for 11spd cassettes as for 12spd mtn cassettes. There's ZERO difference. There is an XDR freehub body, but that's road only, and requires a totally different hub. It's not relevant here.

    You're better off matching cassette and chain brand. You COULD use a Shimano chain with an Eagle quick link, but what's the point when you could just buy a SRAM chain and use the included quick link? You could use a KMC 12spd chain if you prefer those.
    So i need to be more detailed

    I'm using RF NarrowWide Oval chainring so it looks i can't use Shimano chain.
    Can i be safe with Sram or aKMC chain ( with 1295 casette)?

  73. #1473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    So i need to be more detailed

    I'm using RF NarrowWide Oval chainring so it looks i can't use Shimano chain.
    Can i be safe with Sram or aKMC chain ( with 1295 casette)?
    You can be safe with one of those yes. But you will get better performance if you use a shimano chain with a sram powerlink in place of the shimano one. You absolutely can run a shimano chain with that chainring, you just canít use the shimano quick link.

  74. #1474
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    Has some of you already worn the alloy cogs on the XTR cassette? (10-51)

    Two daya ago I met a biker with an XTR drivetrain, but with a Sram XX1 cassette.
    When I asked him why I said that the new XTR cassette ist wearing way too fast.
    Especially the 39t cog which is also made of alloy

    The region there has lots of long and steep climbs. So most of the time you have to use the biggest cogs on your cassette.
    He was very disapointed and after trashing the alloy cogs a few times he switched to the XX1 cassette which he said lasts like forever.

    I think if you live in such a region were you have to climb a lot the XT cassette should be the better choice.

    What are your experiences so far?

  75. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    So i need to be more detailed

    I'm using RF NarrowWide Oval chainring so it looks i can't use Shimano chain.
    Can i be safe with Sram or aKMC chain ( with 1295 casette)?
    Quote Originally Posted by bronxbomber252 View Post
    You can be safe with one of those yes. But you will get better performance if you use a shimano chain with a sram powerlink in place of the shimano one. You absolutely can run a shimano chain with that chainring, you just canít use the shimano quick link.
    No point in using the Shimano chain and THEN replacing the quick link when you're using a SRAM cassette. Pick a SRAM chain or KMC chain (and use the included quick link) if you're using a SRAM cassette. Doesn't matter which. Pick what's cheap/on sale/what you prefer based on prior experience, or whatever. Using a Shimano 12spd chain on a SRAM cassette confers zero benefits of HG+ shifting, and may in fact be a touch worse because it's built to be used with a Shimano 12spd cassette that has slightly different cog spacing than SRAM 12spd cassettes.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneTrustMan View Post
    Has some of you already worn the alloy cogs on the XTR cassette? (10-51)

    Two daya ago I met a biker with an XTR drivetrain, but with a Sram XX1 cassette.
    When I asked him why I said that the new XTR cassette ist wearing way too fast.
    Especially the 39t cog which is also made of alloy

    The region there has lots of long and steep climbs. So most of the time you have to use the biggest cogs on your cassette.
    He was very disapointed and after trashing the alloy cogs a few times he switched to the XX1 cassette which he said lasts like forever.

    I think if you live in such a region were you have to climb a lot the XT cassette should be the better choice.

    What are your experiences so far?
    I haven't had any problems. I spend a decent amount of time in the bigger cogs, too, because I have quite a few long and fairly steep grades. I'm on the 10-45, but the 3 biggest cogs are still alu.

  76. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTrustMan View Post
    Has some of you already worn the alloy cogs on the XTR cassette? (10-51)

    Two daya ago I met a biker with an XTR drivetrain, but with a Sram XX1 cassette.
    When I asked him why I said that the new XTR cassette ist wearing way too fast.
    Especially the 39t cog which is also made of alloy

    The region there has lots of long and steep climbs. So most of the time you have to use the biggest cogs on your cassette.
    He was very disapointed and after trashing the alloy cogs a few times he switched to the XX1 cassette which he said lasts like forever.

    I think if you live in such a region were you have to climb a lot the XT cassette should be the better choice.

    What are your experiences so far?
    not at all. mine has been solid.

    my rides are all well over 2500ft of climbing grinding in the lowest two gears. i run pro gold extreme chainlube for what it's worth, and clean plates and pulleys with alchohol and re-apply after every ride. i wash cassette and chain every 6-10 rides. i run a pretty high cadence though, like 100-110.

  77. #1477
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    I have a couple of the 45T cassettes.
    The oldest probably has 2K miles on it....and spent a lot of it's early life in New England mud and water....and a few hours with a very bent derailleur hanger
    Still going strong.

  78. #1478
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    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    not at all. mine has been solid.

    my rides are all well over 2500ft of climbing grinding in the lowest two gears. i run pro gold extreme chainlube for what it's worth, and clean plates and pulleys with alchohol and re-apply after every ride. i wash cassette and chain every 6-10 rides. i run a pretty high cadence though, like 100-110.
    Well, you said basically nothing about the durability.
    What mileage are you getting on the cassette and chain?

  79. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavo.ghd View Post
    Well, you said basically nothing about the durability.
    What mileage are you getting on the cassette and chain?
    I have around 90 hours on a XTR cassette 51 tooth. I find durability of the larger cogs to be less than steel obviously but no means quick wearing. I'm not the best about washing and cleaning it all up when conditions are dry and I'm riding every single day in prime summertime.

    The chain rubs the adjacent gears a hair and wore some of the larger cogs sides down but other than that it's been excellent. This might damage shift ramps a bit

  80. #1480
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavo.ghd View Post
    Well, you said basically nothing about the durability.
    What mileage are you getting on the cassette and chain?
    ive got at least 800 miles each on two different cassettes and chains.

    10mph average and 1200 ft/climbing per 10 miles.

  81. #1481
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    Confirming - I have to use a sram quick link on the shimano chain for it to play nice with an absolute black chainring?

    My time with eagle has come to an end. Getting tired of the random clunky shifts. Ordered xtr cassette, xt shifter and slx derailleur.

    By the way - There is a seller on ebay currently selling the XTR cassettes for $263
    Last edited by 92gli; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:42 PM.

  82. #1482
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Confirming - I have to use a sram quick link on the shimano chain for it to play nice with an absolute black chainring?

    My time with eagle has come to an end. Getting tired of the random clunky shifts. Ordered xtr cassette, xt shifter and slx derailleur.

    By the way - There are a seller on ebay currently selling the XTR cassettes for $263
    Yes, unless you have a Shimano crank and get their shimano 12sp specific chainring

  83. #1483
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    For those using non Shimano 12sp chainrings with sram quicklink, have you noticed chain or cranking wear?

    Have a bike with truvativ decedent crank coming but am going to swap to Shimano shifter, RD, chain, and cassette. From what I read this will work with a SRAM quicklink, but curious if it kills the chain.

  84. #1484
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    Guys

    Would that setup work.

    RF crank with Narrow Wide chainring, sramm xx1 chain, Eagle 1295 casette, xtr 9100 derailleur and shifter?

  85. #1485
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTrustMan View Post
    Has some of you already worn the alloy cogs on the XTR cassette? (10-51)

    When I asked him why I said that the new XTR cassette ist wearing way too fast.

    What are your experiences so far?

    I came here just to say that very thing. I have been on XTR 9100 11-51 Since June, and have recently become very frustrated with it. Been ridden just about 3x a week consistently, since purchase. All was well in the beginning. Smooth, flawless shifting and quiet operation. Then about a week ago, I start hearing this mal-adjusted sound, almost like its a barrel adjustment issue where the chain was skipping and wanting to ghost shift. Nope. Not out of adjustment..

    After hours of trying to figure out the issue, turns out that the interface from the hub body to the cassette body has such minimal contact points, that the cassette body actually stretched and ovalized. Basically, "Pringled" on both sides of the XTR cassette body. Grrrrr..

    So what was happening, was one "ring" and the other opposing "ring" were worn and the 1-piece cassette had so much play in one direction, that even if I cranked the lock ring down to +40nm, the cassette was still loose AF. Still loose enough to where once I rode the bike, the cassette would go cockeyed, again, and VIOLA the chain would want to ghost shift.

    If you have seen the XTR cassette, there are 2 opposing, and minimal contact points that are isolated from each other, rather than a sleeve-type with maximum contact, like old HG. Good thing is all XTR is guaranteed for a few years, because it's warranty time!

  86. #1486
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelmotion View Post
    I came here just to say that very thing. I have been on XTR 9100 11-51 Since June, and have recently become very frustrated with it. Been ridden just about 3x a week consistently, since purchase. All was well in the beginning. Smooth, flawless shifting and quiet operation. Then about a week ago, I start hearing this mal-adjusted sound, almost like its a barrel adjustment issue where the chain was skipping and wanting to ghost shift. Nope. Not out of adjustment..

    After hours of trying to figure out the issue, turns out that the interface from the hub body to the cassette body has such minimal contact points, that the cassette body actually stretched and ovalized. Basically, "Pringled" on both sides of the XTR cassette body. Grrrrr..

    So what was happening, was one "ring" and the other opposing "ring" were worn and the 1-piece cassette had so much play in one direction, that even if I cranked the lock ring down to +40nm, the cassette was still loose AF. Still loose enough to where once I rode the bike, the cassette would go cockeyed, again, and VIOLA the chain would want to ghost shift.

    If you have seen the XTR cassette, there are 2 opposing, and minimal contact points that are isolated from each other, rather than a sleeve-type with maximum contact, like old HG. Good thing is all XTR is guaranteed for a few years, because it's warranty time!
    So the 20S costs much less and last much more??
    Old is proven, old is good, old is gold.
    Keep shifting under load, i am too old to learn that trick.

  87. #1487
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    Just checked to make sure the xtr cassette I ordered on ebay is from an authorized dealer. Whew! It is.

    Would like to see some pics of what you described twowheelmotion. What brand hub are you using?

  88. #1488
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    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    ive got at least 800 miles each on two different cassettes and chains.

    10mph average and 1200 ft/climbing per 10 miles.
    No surprise you have no issues, that is nothing to evaluate on durability.
    XX1 and X01 cassettes are reported lasting over 6k miles.

  89. #1489
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelmotion View Post
    even if I cranked the lock ring down to +40nm, the cassette was still loose AF.
    Hi twowheelmotion, did you have the lockring tightened to 40nm from new? Cheers

  90. #1490
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    Hi twowheelmotion, did you have the lockring tightened to 40nm from new? Cheers
    Uh huh. Sure did. Torque spec to 40nm with a my trusty Shimano Pro torque wrench, using the applicator, the spacers the new super-sweet Shimano grease. It's XTR... Moment so special I had a bottle of wine open and Marvin Gaye playing on the HiFi, too.

  91. #1491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Guys

    Would that setup work.

    RF crank with Narrow Wide chainring, sramm xx1 chain, Eagle 1295 casette, xtr 9100 derailleur and shifter?
    Anyone?

  92. #1492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Anyone?
    It would work just fine, used it racing this past season - https://youtu.be/g4l_O1qtJ8I

    Also a playlist with a lot more details of the Shimano 12 speed drivetrain. Enjoy!
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...KJP6ciHmRoN3sa
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  93. #1493
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelmotion View Post
    Uh huh. Sure did. Torque spec to 40nm with a my trusty Shimano Pro torque wrench, using the applicator, the spacers the new super-sweet Shimano grease. It's XTR... Moment so special I had a bottle of wine open and Marvin Gaye playing on the HiFi, too.
    Full XTR. Special. Almost worthy of a live performance with full orchestra.

    Which hub are you using?

    I hop that you keep us informed about what Shimano say/do.

  94. #1494
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    Full XTR. Special. Almost worthy of a live performance with full orchestra.

    Which hub are you using?

    I hop that you keep us informed about what Shimano say/do.
    Definitely will... So.. I placed the order in April 19' before the entire XTR group was completely available to ship. Problem at that time was the limited amount of companies that were doing the new hub design. Even Shimano didn't have the hub to ship. Contemplated running some frankenwheel with a DT Swiss driver, but ended up going with a wheelset from NOBL, Canada. NOBL sold me Carbon 38's on I-9 101's and they included the I-9 microspline driver. Jury is still out on the 101 hubs...

  95. #1495
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelmotion View Post
    Definitely will... So.. I placed the order in April 19' before the entire XTR group was completely available to ship. Problem at that time was the limited amount of companies that were doing the new hub design. Even Shimano didn't have the hub to ship. Contemplated running some frankenwheel with a DT Swiss driver, but ended up going with a wheelset from NOBL, Canada. NOBL sold me Carbon 38's on I-9 101's and they included the I-9 microspline driver. Jury is still out on the 101 hubs...
    I'm interested in why you're not convinced about the 101 hubs. Is it this issue, or something else?

    If you have any concerns about I9 product, you should contact them, I've found them to be very helpful and responsive to both general questions and specific issues.

    They may want to know about this anyway - lest this is somehow specific to their freehub (in which chase they would look after you), or others start blaming them without reason!

  96. #1496
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    This is what i needed exactly.
    Thanks a lot.

  97. #1497
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    I'm interested in why you're not convinced about the 101 hubs. Is it this issue, or something else?

    If you have any concerns about I9 product, you should contact them, I've found them to be very helpful and responsive to both general questions and specific issues.

    They may want to know about this anyway - lest this is somehow specific to their freehub (in which chase they would look after you), or others start blaming them without reason!
    Firstly, I-9 is, and has been a great company, to me. I would never forsake them, and has nothing to do with the microspline. I just had a little hiccup with the front hub. Noticed the wheel had a little a little play from side to side. Explained to I-9 what the problem was, and they shipped a replacement end cap for the drive-side. Part showed up to the shop a few days later at no cost, and that seems to have fixed the issue. Good times.

  98. #1498
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    So still no word on a firmware update for XTR Di2 for 12 speed?

  99. #1499
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlownCivic View Post
    So still no word on a firmware update for XTR Di2 for 12 speed?
    It's going to require a new derailleur, there won't be any quick flashes from 11- to 12-speed.

  100. #1500
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well XTR M9100 rear derailleur rock strike!!

    I have just noticed this damage to the body of the rear mech which I presume was caused by a rock. I only noticed when the bike was upside down so could have happened awhile ago. It's still working fine and I think it is the whole body and not replaceable. Anybody had the same happen or any repair suggestions?[ATTACH=CONFIG]1295625
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2018 Shimano XTR 12-speed-dscn2402.jpg  


  101. #1501
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBO Rider View Post
    I have just noticed this damage to the body of the rear mech which I presume was caused by a rock. I only noticed when the bike was upside down so could have happened awhile ago. It's still working fine and I think it is the whole body and not replaceable. Anybody had the same happen or any repair suggestions?[ATTACH=CONFIG]1295625
    Interesting. I just went to look at my SLX mech to see if that piece is plastic; it is. Thought maybe they used plastic on xtr to shave a few grams. On a related note, the plastic clutch switch feels pretty flimsy as well. Can you move your switch to off position?
    I suspect you'll have to replace the whole bottom half, if it's even available.

  102. #1502
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo2213 View Post
    could anyone tell me if an 11 speed chain will work with 12 speed chainrings?

    looking at upgrading my cranks on my 11 speed drivetrain.
    I had the exact same question. I wanted to put the MT900 crank on my existing 11 speed system to save a little weight. I talked to Wolf Tooth to get their thoughts on it (I'm running a WT chainring now) on the presumption that they have quite a bit of engineering knowledge on the differences between the old 11 speed and the new 12. The gist of what they said was that the tooth profile is different enough (deeper valleys between the teeth, the additional beveling on the teeth, etc.) that you'd wear stuff out pretty quickly. Their opinion was that it is inadvisable bordering on incompatible to run a new 12 speed chainring with an 11 speed chain. Incidentally, WT has no plans to make an 11 speed chainring for the new Shimano direct mount cranks. I asked.

  103. #1503
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    Yes the Clutch lever is fine moving smoothly and still working. I tried to find an exploded view pdf of all the rear mech parts like Shimano normally have but with no success

  104. #1504
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Interesting. I just went to look at my SLX mech to see if that piece is plastic; it is. Thought maybe they used plastic on xtr to shave a few grams. On a related note, the plastic clutch switch feels pretty flimsy as well. Can you move your switch to off position?
    I suspect you'll have to replace the whole bottom half, if it's even available.
    Yes the Clutch lever is fine moving smoothly and still working. I tried to find an exploded view pdf of all the rear mech parts like Shimano normally have but with no success

  105. #1505
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  106. #1506
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    The white industries freehub is a nice piece
    2018 Shimano XTR 12-speed-img_20191202_201035.jpg

  107. #1507
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    ^that falls into the category "bike porn".

  108. #1508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpetbombing View Post
    I had the exact same question. I wanted to put the MT900 crank on my existing 11 speed system to save a little weight. I talked to Wolf Tooth to get their thoughts on it (I'm running a WT chainring now) on the presumption that they have quite a bit of engineering knowledge on the differences between the old 11 speed and the new 12. The gist of what they said was that the tooth profile is different enough (deeper valleys between the teeth, the additional beveling on the teeth, etc.) that you'd wear stuff out pretty quickly. Their opinion was that it is inadvisable bordering on incompatible to run a new 12 speed chainring with an 11 speed chain. Incidentally, WT has no plans to make an 11 speed chainring for the new Shimano direct mount cranks. I asked.
    I'm thinking WT is playing it safe with that advice. I would be surprised if there is any issue running 11sp chains on any of the Shimano 12sp specific chainrings. Internal dimensions are basically the same.

    The other option is to run 12sp chains on your 11sp drivetrain. I know this works well, I use X01 Eagle chains on my 11sp bike and it works great. I have tried XTR 12sp chains on it too, and the chainring was a minor issue, but using the MT900 cranks would eliminate this from being a concern.

    I have one bike that is pure 12sp XTR, and one that is a mishmash 11sp(currently XTR 11sp derailleur and Garbaruk 10-50 cassette with X01 chain and XTR 11sp cranks with WT chainring, previously X01 cassette and I have run it with XTR 12sp chain), and while there is a benefit to the XTR cassette+chain combination in Hyperglide+, the drivetrains both work quite well.

    Bottom line, any 11 or 12 speed bike I wasn't using a HG+ cassette on, I would use an X01 chain, due to the way it's made it's a very durable chain without the extra bling tax of XX1.

  109. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    The white industries freehub is a nice piece
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks great!
    Is it a steel body?

  110. #1510
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTrustMan View Post
    Looks great!
    Is it a steel body?
    Titanium

  111. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myers005 View Post
    Titanium
    Thanks.
    White makes some really great looking hubs.

  112. #1512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    the above seems to contradict the below, in all honesty.



    .... I started with a 30t chainring in my drivetrain because that's the smallest that any of the aftermarket companies are making for my cranks (RF) that's officially compatible with HG+. It put me in the big cog on the cassette too much, and was still too tall of a gear for the steepest, longest climbs. I found that I was blowing myself up super early on my rides and it wasn't good. I went back to a "not compatible" 28t chainring using the Eagle quick link to make it work in order to get the gearing I wanted. It has the benefit of also being steel, so it's cheap and durable, and I really don't need to worry about it wearing out super fast.
    Quick question: So your chain length measurement was set up initially for the AB 30T chainring? When you changed that to the AB RF 28T chainring, did you have to reduce your chain length by one link?

    I only have the AB RF 28T oval chainring now (with my XTR 11 speed group) and I intend to keep that chainring. However, I at some point I would like to use / test the new AB 30T RF chainring but I am afraid that my chain will be too short if I go up 2 teeth on my chainring.

    Thanks in advance to your response.

  113. #1513
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    Just experiment with extra master links, it wonít hurt anything.
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    And then we eat them."

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  114. #1514
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    As much as I admire how Sram machines their cassettes, this is very cool in a different way
    2018 Shimano XTR 12-speed-img_20191206_210340.jpg

  115. #1515
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    I can use a crankset/chainring 1x11 m8000 34t with the rest m8100?

    I read that the shimano 12spd chain doesnt fit this chainring 1x11. Options?

  116. #1516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thiagooo View Post
    I can use a crankset/chainring 1x11 m8000 34t with the rest m8100?

    I read that the shimano 12spd chain doesnt fit this chainring 1x11. Options?
    https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...perglide-chain
    Change begins by doing something different.

  117. #1517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpetbombing View Post
    I had the exact same question. I wanted to put the MT900 crank on my existing 11 speed system to save a little weight. I talked to Wolf Tooth to get their thoughts on it (I'm running a WT chainring now) on the presumption that they have quite a bit of engineering knowledge on the differences between the old 11 speed and the new 12. The gist of what they said was that the tooth profile is different enough (deeper valleys between the teeth, the additional beveling on the teeth, etc.) that you'd wear stuff out pretty quickly. Their opinion was that it is inadvisable bordering on incompatible to run a new 12 speed chainring with an 11 speed chain. Incidentally, WT has no plans to make an 11 speed chainring for the new Shimano direct mount cranks. I asked.
    So I bit the bullet and bought XTR M9120 12 speed cranks to go with my 11 speed drivetrain. I've only done one short race, but it seems to work fine.

    I guess the jury is still out with long term wear....

  118. #1518
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo2213 View Post
    So I bit the bullet and bought XTR M9120 12 speed cranks to go with my 11 speed drivetrain. I've only done one short race, but it seems to work fine.

    I guess the jury is still out with long term wear....
    It works because the 12 speed chainring teeth are skinnier to make room for the beefier inner plates of the chain. Interesting if the chain retention is as good with an 11 speed chain that should fit loosely on that chainring compared to the 12 speed HG+ Shimano chain. I would love to hear your feedback on that.
    Last edited by mevnet; 4 Days Ago at 10:55 AM. Reason: Correctness
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  119. #1519
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    As much as I admire how Sram machines their cassettes, this is very cool in a different way
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have one of the 4-material (carbon, aluminum, steel, titanium) cassettes. It's good, but relatively heavy. As you say, it's still an impressive piece...one could say they have had to go to even great engineering extents to try and get the weight down, so again, impressive. I have one of the old HG drivers around to switch out to cheap summer commuting drivetrains, so I might buy another one of those high end 4-material cassettes for it for the winter use.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  120. #1520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I have one of the 4-material (carbon, aluminum, steel, titanium) cassettes. It's good, but relatively heavy. As you say, it's still an impressive piece...one could say they have had to go to even great engineering extents to try and get the weight down, so again, impressive. I have one of the old HG drivers around to switch out to cheap summer commuting drivetrains, so I might buy another one of those high end 4-material cassettes for it for the winter use.
    They hold up super nice. Totally conjecture here, but the alloy they use for the big sprockets is special stuff. Holds up wayyy better than my sram xg1190 cassettes. Still looks new almost after tons of miles.

  121. #1521
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    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    They hold up super nice. Totally conjecture here, but the alloy they use for the big sprockets is special stuff. Holds up wayyy better than my sram xg1190 cassettes. Still looks new almost after tons of miles.
    What conditions? And What lube do you use? I demoed the XTR and really like it. But I'm concerned about so much alloy. And don't want the heavy SLX cassette.

  122. #1522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    What conditions? And What lube do you use? I demoed the XTR and really like it. But I'm concerned about so much alloy. And don't want the heavy SLX cassette.
    Dry moondust and pro gold extreme. I clean chain with alchohol after every ride and reapply light coat. I weigh 78kg and spin alot.

    I spend alottt of time climbing in the big cogs. They get used.

    Nothing to worry about i think. Theyve been solid.

  123. #1523
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    Quote Originally Posted by mevnet View Post
    It works because the 12 speed chainring teeth are skinnier to make room for the beefier inner plates of the chain. Interesting if the chain retention is as good with an 11 speed chain that should fit loosely on that chainring compared to the 12 speed HG+ Shimano chain. I would love to hear your feedback on that.
    I have 12s SLX crankset with 32T which I'm running with 11s SLX chain in a 11s setup (XTR der and both sunrace/shimano cassettes). I've only had four one hour rides but so far but those with zero problems. But I'll consider using 12s X01 chain too. Though I'm not worried about wearing out the steel shimano chainring quickly.

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