Why VPP on the Socom?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Why VPP on the Socom?

    Justy a quick question really, but why use VPP on the Socom? Afterall, it can't mount a front derailleur, and you're not going to go DH/FR'ing with a 32 tooth ring up front, so I can't see why the pedal-ability even matters. Truth is, I want one but I can't see myself climbing 3 miles up the local trails on it with a 36 tooth up front.

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    Can't answer that, other than it is the new "standard" that Intense has adopted. If they were to abandon it on their flagship models, it would create negative speculation about the design. Sure, the VPP pedals great(!), but you lose some of the activity that comes with their 'old' 4 bar design.

    For me it was VERY noticeable and thus I went back to my M1. Socom is a great bike when all out efficiency is needed (hence the FRO), but for the most buttery travel and 'fun factor', I needed to go back to a 4 bar. If I were racing, it might be a different story.

  3. #3
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    the socom is a downhill race bike.... infact it says on the site "for race only"... not a free ride bike or somehtin for goin up hills .... check your definitions next time before you bash a design :-)

    the uzzi is a freeride bike and is capable of a front D
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  4. #4
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    Pedalability matters in the pedally sections of a racecourse. Why use vpp on a v-10 or an
    m3 or an uzzi, or a 6.6 slopestyle or a vp-free?

  5. #5
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    Uhhh, because you need to pedal when you race....
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  6. #6
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    because specialized

    says Intense can't use the horst link anymore.Which is why all their bikes are VPP now

  7. #7
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    Vpp wasn't designed specificaly for bikes that were supposed to go uphill, Its a great suspension design for soaking up the hits, drops and bumps that you find on any race course. Who won the world cup last year? and what Suspension system did his bike use?
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  8. #8
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    Not sure about this...

    Quote Originally Posted by DrEVS
    Can't answer that, other than it is the new "standard" that Intense has adopted. If they were to abandon it on their flagship models, it would create negative speculation about the design. Sure, the VPP pedals great(!), but you lose some of the activity that comes with their 'old' 4 bar design.

    For me it was VERY noticeable and thus I went back to my M1. Socom is a great bike when all out efficiency is needed (hence the FRO), but for the most buttery travel and 'fun factor', I needed to go back to a 4 bar. If I were racing, it might be a different story.
    EVS, I'm not so sure Intense would suffer any backlash by offering another design type in their fleet. SC, Ironhorse, and many others offer very different design options in their model lines with great success, even though some of those brands have a definite flagship design type. I too still like 4-bar Horst designs. I have a 6" Specialized model and a VPP bike. I'm not sure I'd say either one gives up suspension activity over the other, however.

  9. #9
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    Maybe you're right... but I can see people saying that "If VPP is so good, why don't you use it on all models?" Who knows....

    It's a great design, I just found it to be less active/plush than my M1. Maybe that's because it had slightly less travel, but I don't think so. I had them both setup as identically as possible, to ensure a fair eval. I REALLY wanted to like the Socom, it was just not quite right for me.

    And as far as it winning races... Yeah, it is a pretty efficient design. You've also succeeded in summarily justifying Intense's race marketing program.
    Remember that 90/10 rule... 90% rider, 10% bike.

  10. #10
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    Yeah, I see what everyone means, you don't just pedal going uphill. Still wish there was a way to make it go uphill, though ;-)

  11. #11
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    You're right....a race bike that pedals well sounds like a horrible idea.

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  13. #13
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    Dude, althrought my M3 is a race bike, the magnific thing in the VPP desing is that the rear end is trying to bite the ground when pedaling...Feels like the suspension lock on so you don't lose any power in pedal boobs...read that my Fox DHX propedal is at the minimal level...I don't have any problem to pedal the bike up even if I do so once a year.
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  14. #14
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    Why can't you run a front derailleur? And why is one needed for climbing?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiDe66
    so you don't lose any power in pedal boobs.
    Usually it isn't my pedal boobs that cause the problems

    People seem to forget that their is 12-16"(can't remeber which) of super plush suspension in your arms and legs... learm to use them.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodben
    Vpp wasn't designed specificaly for bikes that were supposed to go uphill, Its a great suspension design for soaking up the hits, drops and bumps that you find on any race course. Who won the world cup last year? and what Suspension system did his bike use?
    2006 - Sam Hill, DW-Link
    2005 - Greg Minnaar, Single pivot

    http://www.uci.ch/ucinet/default.asp...ear=2006&l=ENG
    http://www.uci.ch/ucinet/uci.asp?pag...egory=me&l=eng

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    Why can't you run a front derailleur? And why is one needed for climbing?

    very true.. the right gearing option of a single up front and a wide range rear cassette will allow you to climb.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrEVS
    Maybe you're right... but I can see people saying that "If VPP is so good, why don't you use it on all models?" Who knows....

    It's a great design, I just found it to be less active/plush than my M1. Maybe that's because it had slightly less travel, but I don't think so. I had them both setup as identically as possible, to ensure a fair eval. I REALLY wanted to like the Socom, it was just not quite right for me.

    And as far as it winning races... Yeah, it is a pretty efficient design. You've also succeeded in summarily justifying Intense's race marketing program.
    Remember that 90/10 rule... 90% rider, 10% bike.

    M-3 goes through rock Gardens smoother and faster then an M-1......not just my opinion either
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by revmonkey
    That's actually international ranking. Sam Hill killed it this year in the World Championships (Worlds) and did really well in the World Cup. Steve Peat won the WC. He's won more world cup races on a single pivot. Bad example.

    To answer the OPs question. It isolates the suspension movement from brake and pedalling forces. Whether it be a lock-up force or a compressive force the suspension is more able to stay active and not sap energy.

  20. #20
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    Yeah Sam hill Won the world Championships, not the world cup. And I know Steve pete won the world Cup alot racing Single Pivots for Orange, but that doesn't detract from the fact that last year he won on a VPP bike, I know alot of it is down to the rider, but If VPP was that crap then It would definataly effected his ability to win, I say therefore it is a good example so we will have to agree to disagree.
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  21. #21
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    ah ok i remember that peat won SOMETHING, but i wasn't sure what i was looking for and was a bit confused when i saw hill... thanks for clearing it up

    and that was originally going to be my rebuttle, when he was with orange he was winning stuff anyways.

  22. #22
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    I would much rather race my FRO bike with a single ring...
    But I'm retarded.
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    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    M-3 goes through rock Gardens smoother and faster then an M-1......not just my opinion either
    I must have missed the part where the poster was debating M1/M3.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrEVS
    I must have missed the part where the poster was debating M1/M3.

    you were talking about VPP and plushness of the M-1

    Originally Posted by DrEVS


    It's a great design, I just found it to be less active/plush than my M1. Maybe that's because it had slightly less travel, but I don't think so. I had them both setup as identically as possible, to ensure a fair eval. I REALLY wanted to like the Socom, it was just not quite right for me.
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  25. #25
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    Intense Socom

    Yes, you are right, the Socom is a race bike and sometimes racers need to sprint and most races are pretty good handlers so they can deal with a bit of pedal feedback for the benefit of a quicker accelerating bike. If you are searching for one, www.wrenchscience.com has them in stock now!

  26. #26
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    at least one socom has been on the the mbtr Intense forum with an bolt-on cable stop on the seat tube, and a front derailleur.

    there are less DH frame designs that don't pedal reasonably well on the market these days. the market has spoken.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodben
    Vpp wasn't designed specificaly for bikes that were supposed to go uphill, Its a great suspension design for soaking up the hits, drops and bumps that you find on any race course. Who won the world cup last year? and what Suspension system did his bike use?


    some random dude that won the world cup 2 years ago on a singlepivot and beat everybody that was using vpp

  28. #28
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    And this year some random dude won the world championships with a DW-link

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