What To Expect When Riding Downhill- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 35 of 35
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    52

    What To Expect When Riding Downhill

    Sorry if this is a noob question, but I was wondering what to expect exactly from downhill riding? I have a friend that has been doing some downhill racing the last few years and I caught back up with him last year and he said I should go ride some downhill with him some time. I also met another fellow biker last year that is pretty much a beginner like me and he desperately wants to ride some downhill too. I'm 38 now and rode BMX freestyle for several years until I got married in 2001, and I started riding some singletrack last year. But downhilling seems like a complete unknown to me. I mentioned my desire to ride to the owner of the LBS I go to and his comment, "It's not about 'if' you'll get hurt, it's 'when' you'll get hurt," that did not reassure me. And that was coming from a guy who has done some downhill riding, but I don't think he has done a ton.

    Is it as dangerous as a lot of people want to make it sound? Look, I don't want to go 35~40 mph full out down the mountain. I'd like to go at a moderate speed even if that means taking my time. Mainly I just want the experience of riding the lift and enjoying the scenery on the way up as well as on the way down. I don't want to set any speed or time records. A lot of what I've seen in videos it looks like I could do at a speed I feel comfortable with. I know my friend has mentioned one place he rode he had to go off a 7' drop. I'm not sure I want to hit any 7' drops either. Can downhill be done in moderation so-to-speak or does it have to be done full out screaming? The bikes have brakes so can't I use them to adjust to a level I feel comfortable? I know some might say just stick to some singletrack, but I'd really like to do some dowhnill riding that flows and take the pedaling out of biking for a day.

    I live in VA and I thought that Snowshoe in WV was the closest to me, but I have found out about Beech Mountain in NC and the new Bryce Resort opening in VA. The last 2 places are both about 3 hours away from me.

    My last question is about the bikes. If I go then I'd definitely be renting for a while but if I liked it then I could see myself buying a DH bike. What is the minimum requirement you think for a DH bike? I wouldn't want to spend the amount that new DH bikes sell for, but what could you "get away with"? It seems like 7" or 8" travel bikes are the norm for a DH bike but with the riding I described could you get away with a 6" or even 5" travel bike?

  2. #2
    Glad to Be Alive
    Reputation: SHIVER ME TIMBERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    42,954
    scantily clad women in your bed, hangovers, boughts of not remembering things (blackouts), broken bones, bruises, strange growths on your unit if you don't have protection, dry mouth in the morning....addiction problems...

    nothing a few strippers, beers, shot of penecilin and bottles of tequilla won't fix
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  3. #3
    Professional Troll
    Reputation: Gemini2k05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,529

  4. #4
    Radical Rookie
    Reputation: rookie nick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    126
    All of them are trying to dissuade you so that there are fewer riders congesting bike parks and DH trails. You will need a 203mm bike. And you will need armor. And you need some basic bike skills. Short travel takes away the fun and the stability. In some places, braking is not necessary the best way to control your bike and forcing it will result in worse off scenarios.
    My Current Weapons:
    Rocky Mountain Flatline
    Ragley Big Wig
    A 27.5 ;)

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    5
    Rentals, Protective gear, and lessons/clinics are available at most DH parks. A lesson is highly recommended for entry level riders to get comfort levels up.

  6. #6
    May The Force Be With You
    Reputation: shwinn8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,402
    point down, go, have fun, grab a handful of brake, and have more fun!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    '01 Straight 8
    '16 Balance
    '11 Jedi

  7. #7
    RideDirt
    Reputation: aedubber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,253
    A pair of these so you dont liter the trail and just hold on for life !


  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    408
    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS View Post
    scantily clad women in your bed, hangovers, boughts of not remembering things (blackouts), broken bones, bruises, strange growths on your unit if you don't have protection, dry mouth in the morning....addiction problems...

    nothing a few strippers, beers, shot of penecilin and bottles of tequilla won't fix
    Bigger bikes.....get better babes!

  9. #9
    CoolArrow
    Reputation: jhazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,468
    Mostly likely, you'll fall down occasionally, and you probably will get some bumps, bruises and scrapes. But it's not like guaranteed broken femur or arm. Its potentially dangerous as you want to make it. Walking down stairs is dangerous too.

    Its probably a little harder than you imagine, but it's not impossible. Go to Snowshoe, rent a bike/armor and take a lesson. Trails are usually rated for difficulty. Along with all that was mentioned above, you'll have a LOT fun.

    Oh, and do it NOW. Don't wait until you're 40-something like I did.

    Report back with your findings
    Cool BandolArrow

    Jerry Hazard – website

  10. #10
    Arf, he said.
    Reputation: mtbdawgJeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    273
    Expect to have your mind blown.


  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    52
    Not the most helpful of replies, LOL, but jhazard's has been the most reassuring. Well, I'll be 39 this year so maybe it's too late for me as well. I wasn't sure if there were different difficulties of trail or if everyone was expected to do the same line or what. I'll probably end up going to Beech Mountain or Bryce Resort since they're closer. Snowshoe is about 6~7 hours away from me.

  12. #12
    CoolArrow
    Reputation: jhazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,468
    Never TOO late, but the sooner the better - you'll wish you had more years to spend on it is all I'm sayin' (all of the replies are fairly accurate too!)

    Trail difficulty and amount of trails will vary by resort, of course more established properties like Snowshoe will have more variety. Satisfy your curiosity and try it out.
    Cool BandolArrow

    Jerry Hazard – website

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Drth Vadr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    784
    Quote Originally Posted by blammo585 View Post
    "It's not about 'if' you'll get hurt, it's 'when' you'll get hurt,"
    This is an extremely correct statement. You do not have to be barreling down the mountain at 30mph or cleaning 50ft gaps to get hurt. You can suffer serious injury just by going to slow through or over a feature. One of the biggest things I've learned is that momentum is your friend. Where PP gear, it keeps the bruises to a minimum. Ride within your level and comfort zone. Walk a feature and watch other riders before attempting. Things are dramatically different when it gets steep and fast compared to singletrack trail riding. Search YouTube for how to vids to learn body positioning, taking a drop and other useful skills like turning. Braking is a technique that you will have to learn on the fly, but to much brake is bad.

    Concerning the size of the bike, that all depends where you are. Some places a 6" bike will work, other places a 6" bike will beat you to death. Be cautious renting a DH bike, for it is not set-up for you and you don't know how well it has been maintenance.

    I'm 41 and I do believe SMT is even older. That's not a bad thing. You are mature and know your limitations. That's a good thing. Like someone said above, "It's never to late."

    Oh by the way, have a plan to handle the wife's freak out after your first injury. She can be a bigger pain then a broke collar bone.
    Last edited by Drth Vadr; 06-10-2013 at 07:31 PM.

  14. #14
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,842
    I'm 45 years old and still banging out high-speed shuttle runs in Arizona. Your LBS guy is correct in the strictest sense. You WILL get hurt riding DH. It's silly and counter-intuitive to think you won't. That said, those injuries won't necessarily be broken bones, but the speed and sketch of downhill will lead to you parting ways with your rig.

  15. #15
    May The Force Be With You
    Reputation: shwinn8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,402
    I've been thinking about this through out the day... blammo, there is downhill biking and there is downhill racing... it doesn't matter how old you are or what your skill level is, when it comes to downhill biking only YOU can make it as dangerous, fast, and exciting as you want depending on how fast you go &/or are willing to push yourself with the equipment you have.. riding within your own personal limits is the only limitation. Downhill racing on there other hand, can be in it's own world. you could spend all day long going down the same trail at your own pace but put a stopwatch in someones hands in a race environment and told to get down that same trail as fast as you freaking can which pushes you to your limits... well that trail takes on a whole new personality... Like myself, I can bike down most pro/expert dh race courses but I'm too dang slow to race at the pro/expert level. I'm not big on hucking or huge drops, but i love the tight steep technical stuff. it all depends on how much you to push yourself .. just get your young azzz out there and have fun! ... ~ happy trails Sir! ( I'm an elderly 31 years old[thank you USAF], don't think i could keep up with you post 35yr.old youngsters on the trail!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    '01 Straight 8
    '16 Balance
    '11 Jedi

  16. #16
    Glad to Be Alive
    Reputation: SHIVER ME TIMBERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    42,954
    [QUOTE=Mojo Maestro;10457572]Bigger bikes.....get better babes![/QUOTEtru dat...dat wat iza saying
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  17. #17
    Huffy Rider
    Reputation: motochick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,399
    I'm a housewife and started riding DH at 41. When I started I was positive I would NOT be into jumping and catching air, now I seek out jumps and drops like a crack addict seeks another fix. I'm not too big into speed and trying to be the fastest, I just like to ride smooth and try all of the toughest trails. Get a true DH bike with real brakes, wear more gear then you think necessary, and don't think you will keep up with the 18yr olds on your first day.....it will take at least 3 days for that to happen.

    HAVE FUN!

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    536
    Yeah you'll get hurt but you'll recover...

    Last year I saw a kid break his collarbone rolling a 12" log at snail's 2mph or less...

    Ride with people a hair above your level and you'll learn the ropes quickly. Snowshoe has tons of beginner friendly trails and a great team for lessons. You should be fine at Bryce. They open the 22nd (I'll be there) and only have 3 trails done I think so far - one of which is a giant 4-5min smoothie with nothing but berms and slopes from the looks of it. Probably great trail to get used to speed and turns on. From the looks of most of Bryce's updates, you'd be fine on a 6" bike there right now, especially if you're just starting out.

    Really though... stop thinking about it so much and just ride. Take a class... they help you to ingrain a little bit of instinct when it comes to approaching turns, smaller drops and steeps so you don't overreact and brake too much or oversteer or anything like that.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,539
    what have you got to loose... get down to your nearest park/resort, rent a bike, and a guide get some tuition from them and see how it goes.
    i was like yourself 6 years ago. back in may 08 my brother col and myself went out to whistler for the first time. having never rode singletrack, or anything remotly technical let alone bike park or dh.
    anways included in the price of our holiday was coaching/ tuition. you wont believe how much we improved on that 7 day trip. at the end of it we were hitting stuff i never thought would be possible to ride on a bike. on my first few trips i hated the bike park, it scared me, i was put off by the speed that others would fly pass me lol.
    warp forward 6 years we are now on our 11th visit, and hit the park all the time. i have just built up a new dh/park bike for the coming trip and cant wait to try it. i hit most trails with confidance, even the doubble blacks. like i said go out rent a bike take some tuition and see how it goes.

    as for the risks and the getting hurt part, you know what they say, about breaking eggs to make an omlette. if we all thought about getting hurt and not daring to venture out, try things and explore, then we as the human race would never have left our caves and evolved into the species we are today. so go on grow some. go out and give it a go, you never know you just might like it lol. i know i did.

  20. #20
    Perpetual Hack
    Reputation: mykel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,165
    49 in August.
    Just built up my first DH bike.
    Been riding DH on my 170mm bike for a few years.
    The big bike is a whole other world.....should have done it much sooner.

    Snowshoe is great - it was my first "big" park and was a bit intimidating at first.
    By the end of the weekend I was shredding stuff I thought would always be above my pay-grade - especially riding the little bike.
    Hoping for another Snowshoe trip in September - this time with the big bike. Can't wait.

    If you have a free-style bmx background, your bike handling skills should be more than up to snuff for some dh trail riding.

    The only thing I can add, is that if you try it, expect to become addicted, DH can bite and bite hard.

    michael
    Hatched in '64
    A Dirtbag since '69
    A Knomer since '07

    Knolly Fugitive
    Knolly Podium
    Knolly Endorphin
    Knolly Delirium

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    60
    You are never too old. I am 48 and bought my first downhill bike yesterday. I have been riding technical and xc trails for years but this is my first year riding downhill. I realize the fact that I am a beginner so I am taking lessons at the resorts. Also, besides a full face helmet, knee and shin pads, I wear a neck brace, pressure suit, and impact shorts. Because of the lessons and all the protection, I feel that I am limiting my potential risk for serious injury.

    Since I am a beginner, I bought a used 203mm bike. A big bike is more forgiving than a trail bike so for me, I would not consider anything with less travel.

    I am going to Whistler for the first time next month and I am so excited. I have signed up for 3 days of lessons and am looking forward to improving my skills.

    Based on my experience, my recommendation to you is go to the resort, take a lesson, rent a bike and armor and see if you like it. Do not base your decision on whether to downhill or not on someone else’s experience. Spend the money and decide for yourself.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,157
    Dude don't worry about it, just go out and enjoy yourself. Find quiet trails where there aren't a lot of people and you won't feel pressured to "keep up" and ride outside your limits.

    Focus on riding within those limits and just enjoy yourself. Drops and sketchy terrain will come naturally and eventually. Listen to tips from better riders, but don't try to match them. There are some awful people out there who will goad you into trying stuff you're not ready for.

    As for a bike, don't worry about it right now. You can build up an amazing bike for 8gs, or a really decent one for about $1000. It's all in how much use you'll get out of it. Just keep riding and enjoying yourself, and you'll get immersed in the sport and you'll know what to buy.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    908
    Yes, you WILL get hurt. But what's wrong with that? Pain is just there to remind us that we are in fact, real.

    You run a risk of getting hurt in ALL aspects of life, stepping into or out of the tub has proven fatal for more than a few unsteady bathers.

    Pay attention to your surroundings and make smart decisions.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    4
    I think it's all been said. You'll fall a bunch and go slow in the beginning. As you go more often you'll get better and fall less and go faster.

    I didn't start as late as you, but I still got a late start. I didn't try it until I was 28. It wasn't like anything I had done before and the very first time I went it was fun as hell but also frustrating.

    Eventually you'll get better, know how your bike will handle certain terrain, know how to ride certain obstacles, know what armor combo feels comfortable for ya, etc.

    Get out and ride!

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    479
    i'm 35 and hoping to make a first trip to keystone this season...also just bought a DJ bike for a small park we have here in Houston, but haven't headed out that way yet...anyway, in the DJ forum, there are guys who got started in their mid/late -40's...so in a way, i feel a little lucky to have gotten the bug at this age

    but i'm sure parks in that area will have trails ranging in difficulty (green/blue/black) and so on, so i don't think u have anything to worry about if you wanted to stay safe

    cheers to our first DH run this year!

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    35
    I just gotta jump in here - I ride DH at Nstar with a group of guys and gals - aged 44 to 49. We all started slow and scared about 5 years ago, and now go almost every weekend. If you are into adrenaline, It's VERY addicting!

    For adrenaline, do like others have said, rent a DH bike, rent all the padding (shins, elbows, compression suit, padded undies and FF helmet) and get a lesson or two, then have fun. Remember to roll into a fall, instead of throwing your hands out in front. Even in a pretty big crash, you will likely get scratched and bruised, but unlikely to get really hurt. The big bike will allow you to ride out of lots of "almost" crashes, and the armor will allow you to walk away from crashes that normally would send you home. If you rode BMX, you will probably pick this up pretty quick.

    Age isn't the issue - adrenaline is the issue. If you are riding to get the adrenaline fix, then gear up and enjoy. If you are riding to enjoy the view from the chairlift, and just want to take it easy on the downhill, then just rent a regular XC bike, dont bother with armor, and ride the XC trails.

    Either way, enjoy your trip.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ColinL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,827
    I'm 37 and did my first downhill last week, a 4 hour session at Copper Mountain. It probably was more like enduro as some considerable pedaling was involved and the trails that were open didn't have any big jumps. There is no doubt it was some kind of gravity since I used my brakes more during the 4 hour session than I do a whole year back home in Kansas. There appeared to be no locals on the trails, and many newbies who were way over their heads. Not that we were experts...

    Actually... here's my brother in law's video of it. Downhill Mt. Biking at Copper Mountain - YouTube

    He was on a rental Trek Fuel EX 5, I was on my Santa Cruz Blur-- so we were only on 4.5" - 5" bikes. I have motocross and enduro experience but I have ridden very sparingly in the last 5 years.


    Anyway... what to expect:

    1. Know how to use the attack position when descending.

    2. Know how to brake when descending. The bike rental guy advised to only use the rear brake. That does keep you from flipping, but you also need to know how to use the front in order to slow down much more effectively.

    3. Know how to pick your line. You can definitely learn this when doing normal singletrack-- it's not that different for DH.

    4. Know the trails, if you can. Watch videos, ask friends and locals. Good questions: "Are there jumps where I can get more than 1-2 feet of air?" "Are there any narrow parts of the trail beside a steep cliff?"

  28. #28
    Professional Troll
    Reputation: Gemini2k05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,529
    Worst...advice....EVER. If anything you should probably use your front brake more while riding DH. But mostly fairly balanced. Using only your rear brake will make it impossible to safely ride downhill. If you can't use your front brake without going OTB then you shouldn't be riding a mountain bike. Seriously, riding DH while only using your rear brake is very dangerous. You will build up uncontrollable speed very quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    2. Know how to brake when descending. The bike rental guy advised to only use the rear brake.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ColinL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,827
    Yep. If you watched my vid, you could see that you might be able to get away with it on this trail, but it's a horrible piece of advice.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kubikeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    909
    Go down the trail really fast... if something gets in your way... turn.
    The cake is a lie.

  31. #31
    Ugly As F*ck
    Reputation: uglyguy2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    367
    I love hearing about people older than me riding DH. I'm 31 and feel like an old man already, but at least I know I can keep showing up at bike parks for another 15-20 years without looking too silly.

    In regard to the injuries thing, I went to Angel Fire for 3 days last year. Surprisingly I only had one actual fall, and believe it or not it wasn't really my fault (rental bike with bald rear tire + super dusty trails = washout in a berm). The point I'm trying to make though is I knew my limitations going in and I paced myself. I didn't go big and I didn't ride any black trails. I just wanted to get a taste of it and live to tell about it.

    Now I'm about to move to where I'll have a bike park less than an hour away so I'll be riding DH regularly. I am dreading injuries. The unfortunate part of being human is that we are made out of stuff that tears (skin) and stuff that breaks (bone). If you're going to eventually be pushing yourself to progress you're going to take some spills. The result of those spills could just be scrapes and bruises, or.. much worse.

    Honestly though I'd block all of that out of your mind when riding. Just focus on having fun. Otherwise that fear will become a distraction.

    As for me, I'm not a religious man, but for lack of a better way of putting it, I'm praying I don't suffer any serious injuries. I don't mind falling and crashing though. Most of my crashes are of the slow and awkward variety, so it's good for a laugh for whoever might happen to be watching the ugly guy skid down the trail.

  32. #32
    CoolArrow
    Reputation: jhazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,468
    You're gonna crash. No two ways about. Eat well and take care of yourself, starting now. A pro-active, healthy body heals much faster and complete, no matter what age you are.

    I'm 45, btw. Broke two bones in my hand three years ago, but was only off the bike for about 5 weeks. Also rode DH at Angelfire this weekend with some friends, both older than I, one by 10 years I believe. You've got a lot of time left to spend practicing and riding. Wear the gear, know when you/where to push your limits and you'll be golden.

    FWIW, I fall a lot. But hardly ever on big moves, drops/jumps. Usually it's the the little stuff that gets you; like a stump in the ground, hidden rock, tree branch... or bald tire on a blown out trail. Be prepared
    Cool BandolArrow

    Jerry Hazard – website

  33. #33
    RideDirt
    Reputation: aedubber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,253
    Yeah man this sport is rough , your gonna get fukd up man so be prepared lol .

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 303BGB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    14
    No pain!... No glory!
    "Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."

  35. #35
    El CicloPath!!!!!!!
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    247
    Quote Originally Posted by shwinn8 View Post
    I've been thinking about this through out the day... blammo, there is downhill biking and there is downhill racing... it doesn't matter how old you are or what your skill level is, when it comes to downhill biking only YOU can make it as dangerous, fast, and exciting as you want depending on how fast you go &/or are willing to push yourself with the equipment you have.. riding within your own personal limits is the only limitation. Downhill racing on there other hand, can be in it's own world. you could spend all day long going down the same trail at your own pace but put a stopwatch in someones hands in a race environment and told to get down that same trail as fast as you freaking can which pushes you to your limits... well that trail takes on a whole new personality... Like myself, I can bike down most pro/expert dh race courses but I'm too dang slow to race at the pro/expert level. I'm not big on hucking or huge drops, but i love the tight steep technical stuff. it all depends on how much you to push yourself .. just get your young azzz out there and have fun! ... ~ happy trails Sir! ( I'm an elderly 31 years old[thank you USAF], don't think i could keep up with you post 35yr.old youngsters on the trail!
    I'm 44 and all I can say is that DH riding is jst about the funnest thing ever to be conceived on the planet. You can ride as fast or slaw as you want....You can use a long travel bike that will probably make things safer and easier on you. I also think that the whole DH thing is a matter of definition.

    When we go up to Snow Summit and take the lifts up to do the runs..that is Dhing...but to me, when I ride to the top of GMR and take the offroad downhill down, that is DHing too. Is it not?!?!?

Similar Threads

  1. Riding downhill with loose rocks?
    By Sil3nt611 in forum Beginner's Corner
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 09-16-2014, 08:51 AM
  2. Want to get into downhill riding - advice?
    By MoonJeongMin in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 04-01-2013, 08:16 AM
  3. Night riding - what to expect?
    By moldau94 in forum Lights and Night Riding
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-19-2012, 09:06 PM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-30-2012, 04:22 PM
  5. Downhill riding gear?
    By justinhaddeland in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 02-21-2012, 12:07 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.