What causes a dead sailor???- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 27 of 27
  1. #1
    USB Rep'n
    Reputation: namaSSte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,413

    What causes a dead sailor???

    Seems like an easy question but I was trying to explain the causes to someone last night and all I really did was explain the outcome. How would you guys define it and explain the root of the problem?


    This, of course, isn't assuming any of us have ever done one or anything.
    though hope is frail, it must prevail - Taj Weekes

    betam eh-wud-eh-HA-lehu y
    eh-nay Ityopia!

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: StinkyOne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    484
    For me a dead salior is the direct result of trying to learn a new trick. I have the trick I want to do in my head as I hit the lip, but then a weard thing happens; my balls fall off and I turn into a little girl, who is just hanging onto that bike for dear life. What's really strange is once I have landed my balls jump back into place and I try again, hopefully with better results the second time.
    If you build it you get to jump it, forget them.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: NCBigHit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    463
    The worst dead sailors happen to me when I'm trying to get more out of a lip than my speed really allows. When I was first learning I used to pull up when jumping....and that caused me to come off the lip oddly, and once in the air, it is tough to save.

    Now that I gave up yanking on the bars like an idiot, I, like StinkyOne, have them happen when I'm trying to add something fancy in the air...I somehow loose focus on whatever is keeping me balanced, and I just start to rotate....

    As far as avoiding the dead sailor, for me its all about pumping in the air...

  4. #4
    where's the kick stand?
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    674
    Quote Originally Posted by StinkyOne
    For me a dead salior is the direct result of trying to learn a new trick. I have the trick I want to do in my head as I hit the lip, but then a weard thing happens; my balls fall off and I turn into a little girl, who is just hanging onto that bike for dear life. What's really strange is once I have landed my balls jump back into place and I try again, hopefully with better results the second time.
    I have to agree with that, not that I can really do any tricks.
    live to ride, ride to live

    R.I.P. Dimebag Darrell

  5. #5
    TNC
    TNC is offline
    noMAD man
    Reputation: TNC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,059

    LMAO! That's great.

    Quote Originally Posted by StinkyOne
    For me a dead salior is the direct result of trying to learn a new trick. I have the trick I want to do in my head as I hit the lip, but then a weard thing happens; my balls fall off and I turn into a little girl, who is just hanging onto that bike for dear life. What's really strange is once I have landed my balls jump back into place and I try again, hopefully with better results the second time.
    S1, that's an excellent assessment of an "Oh Sh**" moment...LOL! You know, even though the term "dead sailor" has been around since my 70's motorcross days, I had never given thought to the exact technical reference. The picture of a sailor hanging on to a piece of debris floating out in the middle of the ocean with no hope in sight of surviving had never specifically come into my mind's eye. I just knew it was that second at some point in a jump that you knew you no longer had the control you needed to make it back down to earth in a controlled manner unless it was pure luck--you know...the front end going down too fast, the front end coming up too fast, or the back end coming around when you didn't want it to. I guess I thought the dead sailor was just a reference to a guy going down with the ship, but the guy floating out in the ocean, hanging on to something with no hope is a much better analogy. He may not be dead at that moment, but the future doesn't look good. Even at my age, it's never too late to learn something new. Hey, on your "balls dropping off" analogy, I guess we can call it a "neutered" dead sailor, but the result is the same...LOL! Thanks for the great mental picture.

  6. #6
    i should be working
    Reputation: rpl3000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    531
    i think its caused by your weight or the suspension not being in exaclty the right positions apon take off. i can hit a jump a hunrdred times fine and then somedays would take an extra pedal or try the other foot foreward and nothing seems right. totally uncomfortable and not in control of the bike.

    the worst sailors are when the bike gets you leaning and you feel like you want to put a foot down. its hard to fight that feeling but for the sake of your poor foot you gotta hang on and just take whatever brutal landing physics has in store for you.

    the front rotational ones arent as bad as you'd think unless its really forward rotated. again its just convincing yourself to hang on. i've nosed pretty bad and rode away. but you have to then stop the bike and kiss the fork for saving your face.

  7. #7
    Pro Crastinator
    Reputation: .WestCoastHucker.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,355
    a dead sailor is simply freezing the moment you go off the lip (or being in an un-correctable position) and remaining that way untill you pummel into the ground.......


  8. #8
    USB Rep'n
    Reputation: namaSSte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,413

    okay, we are getting somewhere but....

    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker.
    a dead sailor is simply freezing the moment you go off the lip (or being in an un-correctable position) and remaining that way untill you pummel into the ground.......
    this is basically the explanation I was giving that seemed unsatisfactory. more about the outcome than the actual why. In the case I was talking about, I was referring to my friend who seems to rotate forward off every lip and he can't figure out why. I told him he was ded sailoring and he was like what the #$%!@&* . I assume he meant "heck" and the adrenaline of doing an involuntary nose manual just had him hopped up.

    In any case, I kinda assumed that the root was that his weight wasn't neutral at takeoff. Is that right on or should I be telling him to pull back at the lip or something different? I
    though hope is frail, it must prevail - Taj Weekes

    betam eh-wud-eh-HA-lehu y
    eh-nay Ityopia!

  9. #9
    Pro Crastinator
    Reputation: .WestCoastHucker.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,355
    he is doing exactly what i said, just freezing, not trying to really control the bike, just trusting that it will get him to the ground safely, therefor the bike is following it's natural arc.....

    jumping and bike manipulation in the air is all about body english.....


  10. #10
    i should be working
    Reputation: rpl3000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    531
    or way to much rebound!

  11. #11
    Pro Crastinator
    Reputation: .WestCoastHucker.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,355
    Quote Originally Posted by rpl3000
    or way to much rebound!
    if that were the problem, scott would have figured it out by now....


  12. #12
    USB Rep'n
    Reputation: namaSSte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,413

    nah...

    Quote Originally Posted by rpl3000
    or way to much rebound!
    he doesn't preload at all so I do't think that's it. Mike's got it...it's just apprehensive takeoffs...

    The problem is that it's got him rattled now and the fear only makes it worse. I think Im going to tell him to just work off some smaller lips until his confidence is up. fyi, he jumps (ack)clipped in which doesn't help the cause in any way! He doesnt want to change that but I don't see how he's not scared to death doing it that way.
    though hope is frail, it must prevail - Taj Weekes

    betam eh-wud-eh-HA-lehu y
    eh-nay Ityopia!

  13. #13
    Pro Crastinator
    Reputation: .WestCoastHucker.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,355
    to an inexperienced rider, watching jumps seems simple in theory. to them it looks like you just ride off the lip at a certain speed and you will naturally land on the landing. it also dosen't appear that the rider is actually doing much in this aspect (untill the pulling a trick breaks the obvious path of repetitivism (i think i might have made up a word)) other than just holding on.....


  14. #14
    i should be working
    Reputation: rpl3000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    531
    yea trying to teach people who dont jump is hard. they totally think you just ride off it. i try to tell them to pretend to bunnyhop off of the jump. go throught the same motions as is bhopping on flat ground. that way they learn to preload the bike. of course they have to know how to hop in the first place for this to work.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,071
    Too much weight on the front end causes a dead sailor. You can fix it with speed, pulling up on the bars, preloading the bike, bunnyhopping off the lip, shifting your weight back, or some combination thereof (aka "body english" as WCH said).

    Have your friend try riding off a curb until he can land both wheels at the same time, or rear wheel first, and control which one he's going to do. Then he's ready to go bigger.

  16. #16
    Industry Loudmouth
    Reputation: ska todd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    964
    Quote Originally Posted by namaSSte
    What causes a dead sailor???
    Enemy fire??

    -ska todd

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BillT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    883
    Quote Originally Posted by ska todd
    Enemy fire??

    -ska todd
    I was thinking more along the lines of scurvy.

  18. #18
    Former Noob Herder
    Reputation: zedro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,261
    the psyche aspect for me seems to be the difference between doing a jump/drop and doing a part of the trail which just happens to have a jump/drop on it. The latter i'm just riding it as if it was any other type of terrain and of course relaxed and in control and maybe aggressive. But as soon as i differentiate it (no, not calculus) as a 'OMG thats a pretty big jump/drop', i end end bracing myself, puckering up and taking it like a real knob.

    Of course, i bet your friend doesnt want a psychological assessment of his error....
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslingger
    no doubt you must have majored in english or something rad!!!

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    213
    hey, i used to have a bmx bike and just bought a FS mountain, how should i jump differently? in other words, should i preload the suspension more or what?

  20. #20
    Don't skid
    Reputation: KONA_in_SB's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,160
    I think fear and inexperience is what causes dead sailors. Inexperience is why you won't do any movements to the bike in the air, and fear casues you to just 'hang on' and be all stiff. I have only been DJing since the beginning of this summer and when I first started I was a dead sailor over everything b/c I didn't know what I was supposed to do in the air. And I still do it on bigger stuff b/c of fear.

    Tell your friend to hit a smaller jump over and over again. Then do it some more. Then tell him to start turning the wheel or throwing the back end out in the air. This will build his confidence, and give him a feeling of how to handle the bike in the air thus overcoming the fear and inexperience.

  21. #21
    Glad to Be Alive
    Reputation: SHIVER ME TIMBERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    42,919
    Being afraid and scared

  22. #22
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    If his rear end is coming up in the air, I would say give it some throttle, but that doesn't work on a mt. bike, and I know pedaling wouldn't help.
    find a little rythym section or small six-pack, etc. and get him pumpin the bumps to get the feeling of lifting the front then setting it down on the next tranny. I find pumping in the air, or slightly whipping it to the right (I'm right foot forward) helps me w/ the dead sailors, although it still catches me off guard at times, on a jump I've never hit before, or I'm intimidated.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  23. #23
    USB Rep'n
    Reputation: namaSSte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,413
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    I find pumping in the air, or slightly whipping it to the right (I'm right foot forward) helps me w/ the dead sailors,
    uh oh, now, Im gonna start thinking too! I jump left foot forward but still like to whip to the right instead of left. What if Ive been doing it wrong all along?

    As for the dead sailor, I think there's some good advice here, the best of which is to have him practice over and over and over. At first I told him to watch others jump and mimic what they do but as WCH said, it looks easy enough to watch. Only practice is going to solve this issue for him. Fortunately, there are graduated jumps in the park so they can be hit over and over and he can simply move up to the next as he feels more confident.

    Thanks all for the replies. Just don't get me thinking about which foot is supposed to be where unless it really matters!!
    though hope is frail, it must prevail - Taj Weekes

    betam eh-wud-eh-HA-lehu y
    eh-nay Ityopia!

  24. #24
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    What if Ive been doing it wrong all along?
    hey, if it feels right, how can you be doing it wrong- no need to change it unless your squirreling out.
    For me whipping is just like doing hips- I can whip it and hip it to the right much better than I can to the left, but that's just my feel, I'm just more comfortable that way for some reason.
    but yeah, "thinking" - just something else to avoid when gapping some huge cheese wedge - To become empty is to become enlightened, to feel the trail and interact w/ it accordingly is to attain "Bike Satori!" you pickin up what I'm layin down
    Schralp it Heavy.

  25. #25
    USB Rep'n
    Reputation: namaSSte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,413
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    hey, if it feels right, how can you be doing it wrong- no need to change it unless your squirreling out.
    For me whipping is just like doing hips- I can whip it and hip it to the right much better than I can to the left, but that's just my feel, I'm just more comfortable that way for some reason.
    but yeah, "thinking" - just something else to avoid when gapping some huge cheese wedge - To become empty is to become enlightened, to feel the trail and interact w/ it accordingly is to attain "Bike Satori!" you pickin up what I'm layin down
    WERD!


    transcendental jumping is where its at!
    though hope is frail, it must prevail - Taj Weekes

    betam eh-wud-eh-HA-lehu y
    eh-nay Ityopia!

  26. #26
    locked - time out
    Reputation: s1ngletrack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,724
    Dead Sailor last night = broken foot today

    Dead Sailors have everything to do with your mental state and nothing to do with whether you pull up, lean back, smack your gum, etc... They are caused by apprehension (or blind, unmitigated terror ) I've found that focusing on doing something in the air (ex: a kickout, or anything else that requires rider input) will help to reduce the number of Dead Sailors (this assumes that you do, in fact, wish to reduce you number of Dead Sailors - and are not an aspiring "Dead Sailor Pro" like myself) Sometimes though, this won't help, like last night where I was able to turn a simple kickout into a highly advanced "One Footed Dead Sailor to Foot-plant to ER" (don't try this at home kids)

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    300
    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker.
    a dead sailor is simply freezing the moment you go off the lip (or being in an un-correctable position) and remaining that way untill you pummel into the ground.......
    hahahaha, nicely said.
    "Identify your real master."

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-02-2006, 09:29 AM
  2. Ever find a dead body biking around Tucson
    By borregokid in forum Arizona
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-04-2004, 04:02 PM
  3. in search of grateful dead gary fisher decals!
    By tie in forum Vintage, Retro, Classic
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-11-2004, 11:08 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.