is tubeless woth for dh??- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    is tubeless worth for dh??

    I mean, what are its benefits?? I was considering going tubeless(mavic ex823) for next season but Im really doubting if its worth or not....I thought a tubeless set would be lighter than my actual non tubeless rims but Im not sure, this w/o taking into account that tubeless tires are heavier?? correct me if Im wrong and If someone wants to convince me to go tubeless , go ahead!! , I know that you can put less air pressure on the tires but apart from that....???
    Last edited by ban; 01-12-2006 at 08:27 AM.

  2. #2
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    I want to edit the tittle but I cant do it..WHYYY??

  3. #3
    TNC
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    Weight not primary.

    Quote Originally Posted by ban
    I mean, what are its benefits?? I was considering going tubeless(mavic ex823) for next season but Im really doubting if its worth or not....I thought a tubeless set would be lighter than my actual non tubeless rims but Im not sure, this w/o taking into account that tubeless tires are heavier?? correct me if Im wrong and If someone wants to convince me to go tubeless , go ahead!! , I know that you can put less air pressure on the tires but apart from that....???
    I don't think most DH/FR types care as much about the weight as they do about the ability to get the tire carcass to have flex characteristics that provide better grip and traction without allowing pinch flats. The interesting thing about about running a tire in tubeless setup is that they usually don't have to run as low a psi as a tubed tire to provide the same traction performance. Don't try to get me to explain the physics of how a tube in a tire causes this noticeable stiffening effect in the tire carcass, but it does. Bigger DH/FR tires run in tubeless setup don't always have to be UST tires, either, to be reliable and give good performance. Flat proofing and weight are actually side benefits of running tubeless setups.

  4. #4
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    Is any weight saved by going tubeless? If so how much? Assuming you have Hadley's on 823's and some Maxxis Minion UST 2.5's...

  5. #5
    Sedona, Az USA
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    The benefits for UST in DH/FR:

    1.) lighter when compared to DH tubes

    2.) easier, compared to ghetto tubeless

    3.) change tires to a mud tire on race day or whatever tire you need easily without the ghetto tubless hassles.

    4.) you wont flat, EVER ! <– not exactly true but damn close.

  6. #6
    The king is on fire
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    wheel weight is one of the most important areas, I learned this years ago in my auto racing days although it's different with cars basiclly for us the less rotation mass is going to help you so much getting out of corners (where races are usually won/lost) much faster. If you run a heavier fork you can go tubeless in the front and an xc tube in the rear w/ talc powder to balence the bike out.
    Have fun.

  7. #7
    wheeeee!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt
    Is any weight saved by going tubeless? If so how much? Assuming you have Hadley's on 823's and some Maxxis Minion UST 2.5's...
    I ghetto tubelessed a dh tire and the weight savings vs. a dh tube was around 200 grams per tire (same tire, same wheel, just losing the dh tube and using plenty of home made slime)

    200 grams isn't small potatoes, particularly when you consider it's rotating weight far from the axle.

  8. #8
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    Okay so tubeless main benefit is to have more grip..thats a good thing to consider....I had the misperception that people went tubeless mainly to save weight as nowadays top racers bikes tend to be lighter than before, ....anyway, have you noticed a BIG difference in grip and lightness between a tubeless set up and a standard one that make worht to spend the money on that??

  9. #9
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    does anyone know all the weights?

    I'll try and find all the weights for everything to build a front wheel on a Hadley 20mm hub, then we can see how much weight is saved using tubeless vs. a standard setup.

    The weights might be wrong, so correct 'em if you see a mistake. Also, I didn't know which nipples would work with which spokes so I just picked some, it shouldn't matter since I'm putting the same spokes on both wheels though... Feel free to chime in on that part.

    Here are some weights I found, first wheel is tubeless, second is standard:

    Mavic EX 823 rim- 580 Grams

    Maxxis Minion DHF UST 2.5- 1125 Grams

    Hadley 20mm Hub- 194 Grams

    DT Alpine 3 Spokes (32)- 109 Grams

    DT Nipples (32)- 32.5 Grams



    Total Weight: 2040.5 Grams + Stan's if you use sealant

    Non-tubeless setup:

    Mavic EX729 rim- 670 Grams

    Maxxis Minion DHF ST (not UST) 2.5- 1125 Grams

    Maxxis DH tube- 460 Grams

    Hadley 20mm DH Hub- 194 Grams

    DT Alpine 3 Spokes- 109 Grams

    DT Nipples- 32.5 Grams

    Total Weight: 2590.5 Grams

    So the total weight savings for going tubeless would be 550 Grams (about 1.21 pounds).

  10. #10
    ban
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    hmmm, weird...I ve seen in lots of places the Mavic EX823 weight to be 580gr as Matt says but in Mavic webpage says its 657gr... strange thing.. http://www.mavic.com/ewb_pages/v/vtt...et=2&gamme=vtt

  11. #11
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    Ok Here's the Deal

    My Buddy has done the exact set up you are talking about:

    He has: Hadley Front & Rear Hubs - Mavic 823's - and Regular Highroller Tires not UST. You don't need UST Tires you just need the tire to have a ridge on the outside and all the Mavics have them. And has used BMW Sealeant to seal his wheel. (due to the fact that this type of sealeant does not dry, so it is allways moving around your wheel to stop leaks. to bad it something like 90 bucks a can!!!)

    He puts the tire on the rim then puts in the sealeant. And uses a Hight Pressure Tire Pump to snap the tire in place. A regular bike pump will not work.

    Now for the weight deal: His complete bike a 03 Stinky Deluex or whatever they called it that year dropped about a 1.5lbs. so about .75lbs a wheel give a take a few ounces.

    His big deal about the whole thing is, "It's Harder to get a flat". Well on Bullet in Mammoth going down the log drops, rocks got in his Bead and made the tire go out. His One flat in 8 months.

    And for me I ride on tubes and have'nt gotten a flat on my DH bike in I can't even remember when!! Knock on Wood!!!

  12. #12
    rollin
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    Quote Originally Posted by #1ORBUST
    And for me I ride on tubes and have'nt gotten a flat on my DH bike in I can't even remember when!! Knock on Wood!!!
    as if you could fix a flat if you got one!!!11!11!

    Last edited by sriracha; 01-13-2006 at 09:33 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha
    as if you could fix a flat if you got one!!!11!11!
    That's what I mean It's been so dam long that I've had a flat on trail I would have no clue what to do. Knock on Wood!!

  14. #14
    rollin
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    you should put some sockets or bolts in your friend's tubless tires. a little sabatoge!!!
    first ride, his bike will be all rattling and janking!
    Last edited by sriracha; 01-13-2006 at 09:36 AM.

  15. #15
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    Okay, you´ve almost convinced me to go tubeless at least on the front wheel and see how it performs, if Im fully convinced I will put tubeless in the back wheel as well!!, one final question; what else do I need to go UST ??I mean, apart from the tires and rims, it is (almost) compulsory to have Slime or Stans sealant and a kit of tubeless patches, is that right?? anything else??cheers!!

  16. #16
    izumusx988
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    How long would tubeless last on non ust rims and tires, would it still be worth the weight savings? (dt swiss fr6.1 and maxxis minion dhf)
    -Rob

    Northeast Sovereign racing - Morewood bikes-maxxis-hayes-e13

  17. #17
    Stack Daddy
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    Dude, why don't you try a ghetto tubeless setup in front- $25 maybe? If you like it, go all out. If not, you're easily able to go back to yestubes.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtdemon
    Dude, why don't you try a ghetto tubeless setup in front- $25 maybe? If you like it, go all out. If not, you're easily able to go back to yestubes.
    yes I considered trying ghetto, but my rear rim is quite dented so I had planned to change it time ago soo as I have to change the rim...you know.. besides my actual rims are the mavic f219 disc which are not very suitable for dh so I want to change them before destroying them, anyway, do I need anything else, apart from the sealant and a kit of tubeless patches??cheers!!
    Last edited by ban; 01-14-2006 at 10:53 AM.

  19. #19
    Neuro
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    Why Peat, Hill, Kovaric, Donougue, ecc ecc don't use tubeless?!!!!?

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