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  1. #1
    RTM
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    Tubeless conversion advice needed

    is Stan's conversion kit reliable and strong enough for DH and freeride? I'm concerned about a blow out in a rock garden, or a heavy impact.

    I'll be using it with Mavic EX 729 disc rims and Specialized 2.6" tires.

  2. #2
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    some people swear by it but when i tried to convert my maxxis mobsters to tubless it didnt work and so i purhcased a new set of minions to complemetn my new dee maxx set

    The Dee maxxs are MEGA
    im all about midget drops

  3. #3
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    Especially with big tires.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    is Stan's conversion kit reliable and strong enough for DH and freeride? I'm concerned about a blow out in a rock garden, or a heavy impact.

    I'll be using it with Mavic EX 729 disc rims and Specialized 2.6" tires.
    The Stan's system is especially reliable with big tires like those and bigger rims. At our shop we've noticed that as you try to go lower than 2.35 conventional tires with the Stan's strip system, you have to be more selective on the tires. Many smaller conventional tires work fine with the Stan's system but many don't. The harder and more gnarly the riding becomes and the harsher the terrain on the sidewalls and tire carcass, the greater the possibility of tire damage or bead separation. Big DH/FR conventional tires don't seem to have any of these issues. They seem to be the best candidates for Stan's tubeless setup.

  4. #4
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    I've been thinking about doing the Stan's conversion too. I've got Sun MTX rims with Maxxis 2.4" Holy Rollers. Are there any other conversion kits like Stans but a bit cheaper. If I recall correctly the DH/FR Stans kit is 60$ on pricepoint.com which gets you a pint of goop, a few strips and a couple valve stems. It seems like it should be more like a 25$ kit.

  5. #5
    BJ-
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    why waste your money on the Stans Kit? buy yourself some 24" tubes and some homemade goo from your LBS and make them up that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob
    everybody was dressed nice...I had shorts, Rogue T-shirt and sandles

  6. #6
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    ghetto tubeless conversion process:

    ingredients:

    2 - 20" bmx tubes ($6 total)

    1 - can of slime tubeless sealant ($9 total)

    cut the bmx tubes open on the outside so they're a big flat hoop with a valve stem in the middle.

    stretch one over your rim, stick the valve stem through the hole.

    put your tire on.

    blast some air in there and pump them up to seal the bead (watch for the area around the valve stem as there is sometimes more rubber there that causes a bump and a leak)

    after the bead is seated, take the valve core out, squirt half the bottle of the slime in there, put the core back in, pump up your tire, and you're good to go.

    now go back and cut off the flaps of innertube that are hanging out of the sides at the edge of the rim.

    $15 and a little time and you've got two tubeless wheels with regular tires and regular rims.
    cycle tracks will abound in utopia.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by coma13
    ghetto tubeless conversion process:

    ingredients:

    2 - 20" bmx tubes ($6 total)

    1 - can of slime tubeless sealant ($9 total)

    cut the bmx tubes open on the outside so they're a big flat hoop with a valve stem in the middle.

    stretch one over your rim, stick the valve stem through the hole.

    put your tire on.

    blast some air in there and pump them up to seal the bead (watch for the area around the valve stem as there is sometimes more rubber there that causes a bump and a leak)

    after the bead is seated, take the valve core out, squirt half the bottle of the slime in there, put the core back in, pump up your tire, and you're good to go.

    now go back and cut off the flaps of innertube that are hanging out of the sides at the edge of the rim.

    $15 and a little time and you've got two tubeless wheels with regular tires and regular rims.
    great advice, but we still run the stans goo
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    The Stan's system is especially reliable with big tires like those and bigger rims..
    This is good for me to hear. I just converted my front to tubeless (SingleTrak with Nevegal 2.5") and I can't wait to try it out this weekend. I'll still bring a couple of tubes with me just in case, but after hearing how great they are, I'm getting kinda giddy . I'll do the rear tomorrow.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJ-
    stans goo is the same thing just more expensive
    LBS doesn't sell homade stuff out here
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMT
    great advice, but we still run the stans goo
    stans goo is the same thing, with a pretty label and a hefty price tag on it...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    LBS doesn't sell homade stuff out here
    thats a shame, find a good one or somone that does. its not hard to obtain by any means...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob
    everybody was dressed nice...I had shorts, Rogue T-shirt and sandles

  12. #12
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    FYI, before you use stans

    from the Kenda site...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenda USA
    ATTENTION KENDA VALUED CUSTOMERS
    KENDA DOES NOT ENDORSE THE USE OF ANY FLUID BASED SEALANT PRODUCTS IN KENDA TUBE TYPE OR TUBELESS TYPE TIRES. USE OF ANY FLUID BASED PRODUCT IN KENDA TIRES WILL BE AT YOUR OWN RISK AND WILL VOID ANY WARRANTY CLAIMS.

    THANK YOU!
    Kenda Management

    If you have any questions, please contact
    us at:
    Tel: (614) 866-9803 x1
    Fax: (614) 866-9805
    Toll Free: (866) 536-3287 x1
    [email protected]
    link:http://kendausa.com/bicycle/technology.html
    <table id="table2" bgcolor="#dadada" border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" width="58%"><tbody><tr> <td>
    </td></tr></tbody></table>

  13. #13
    TNC
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    Seen that, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    from the Kenda site...
    link:http://kendausa.com/bicycle/technology.html
    [/color] <table id="table2" bgcolor="#dadada" border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" width="58%"><tbody><tr> <td>
    </td></tr></tbody></table>
    I don't quite get it. I don't think Kenda uses any special rubber or compound that would react with Stan's, tubeless Slime or other sealant. I had a Kenda Kinetic on one of my bikes for over a year with Stans, and there was no degradation of the tire, inside or out. Other guys are using other Kendas in tubeless setup with no problems. Sounds like a lawyer deal or something. Not flaming you Red, but I think Kenda is full of it on that warning. Maybe a lawyer got a shot of Stan's sealant in his while checking his Kenda tires...LOL!

  14. #14
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    Even with the Michelins the stans eats part of the tire....no biggie.....by the time the tire wears out from riding the inside still has alot more time left over....I would run Kendas and Stans....many riders in the area do
    Seen that, but...

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by red5
    from the Kenda site...
    link:http://kendausa.com/bicycle/technology.html
    [/color]



    I don't quite get it. I don't think Kenda uses any special rubber or compound that would react with Stan's, tubeless Slime or other sealant. I had a Kenda Kinetic on one of my bikes for over a year with Stans, and there was no degradation of the tire, inside or out. Other guys are using other Kendas in tubeless setup with no problems. Sounds like a lawyer deal or something. Not flaming you Red, but I think Kenda is full of it on that warning. Maybe a lawyer got a shot of Stan's sealant in his while checking his Kenda tires...LOL!
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  15. #15
    RTM
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    Quote Originally Posted by coma13
    ghetto tubeless conversion process:
    yeah, I came across the link to that project on NSMB. excellent write up and it seems like a great solution. I figured I'd first figure out if the conversion was a good idea in the first place and then touch on options. I also saw Maxxis tire strips for $5 each. Not sure what I'd do about the valves though.

    so, it seems you guys are pretty confident in the strength and reliability of a tubeless conversion for DH. one question about the home-made idea. would using inner tubes as a liner basically negate the weight loss benefit of a kit like Stan's?
    Last edited by RTM; 01-03-2006 at 10:34 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    yeah, I came across the link to that project on NSMB. excellent write up and it seems like a great solution. I figured I'd first figure out if the conversion was a good idea in the first place and then touch on options. I also saw Maxxis tire strips for $5 each. Not sure what I'd do about the valves though.

    one question about the home-made idea. would using inner tubes as a liner basically negate the weight loss benefit of a kit like Stan's?
    Whoa! I had never seen that before. That's a way better write up than mine.
    cycle tracks will abound in utopia.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    yeah, I came across the link to that project on NSMB. excellent write up and it seems like a great solution. I figured I'd first figure out if the conversion was a good idea in the first place and then touch on options. I also saw Maxxis tire strips for $5 each. Not sure what I'd do about the valves though.

    so, it seems you guys are pretty confident in the strength and reliability of a tubeless conversion for DH. one question about the home-made idea. would using inner tubes as a liner basically negate the weight loss benefit of a kit like Stan's?
    You remove quite a bit of the tube and don't need a heavy duty tube to do it. Weight would be within a few grams. I have run ghetto tubless for most of two seasons with no issues at all. I use stans too.
    The Super T you have is really a very good fork. I'd take that fork over a Fox 40 or a Boxer unless i was entering a fashon contest instead of a race

  18. #18
    RTM
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    here's the ghetto write up link if anyone was interested. I'm going to try it, but use a name brand sealant just for peace of mind.

    http://www.nsmb.com/gear/tubeless_12_04.php

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    here's the ghetto write up link if anyone was interested. I'm going to try it, but use a name brand sealant just for peace of mind.

    http://www.nsmb.com/gear/tubeless_12_04.php
    very cool post....Mold builder-need to check out
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  20. #20
    TNC
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    Not as good as Stan's.

    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    very cool post....Mold builder-need to check out
    Shiver, I've used tubeless for over 4 years now, from back when you used mold builder latex, packing taped the rim valley, and then covered it all with electrical tape...no strips or Stan's formula. The sealant Stan's uses now and for awhile has some magic sh!t in it...LOL! You may have noticed the granules of some kind in there. They don't look like they'd do anything, but this stuff works so much better than the original Stan's and waaay better than the homemade mold builder latex. I'm a cheap basstid too, but the roll-yer-own latex just isn't as good...I've tried it. Now the tubeless slime and the homemade mold builder in a mix might be a decent compromise, but the tubeless Slime is a lot messier than Stan's IMHO. The ghetto BMX tube deal will work too, but again, the Stan's strips are beefier and will last through many tires unless you're hamfisted.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    Shiver, I've used tubeless for over 4 years now, from back when you used mold builder latex, packing taped the rim valley, and then covered it all with electrical tape...no strips or Stan's formula. The sealant Stan's uses now and for awhile has some magic sh!t in it...LOL! You may have noticed the granules of some kind in there. They don't look like they'd do anything, but this stuff works so much better than the original Stan's and waaay better than the homemade mold builder latex. I'm a cheap basstid too, but the roll-yer-own latex just isn't as good...I've tried it. Now the tubeless slime and the homemade mold builder in a mix might be a decent compromise, but the tubeless Slime is a lot messier than Stan's IMHO. The ghetto BMX tube deal will work too, but again, the Stan's strips are beefier and will last through many tires unless you're hamfisted.
    only problem is Alloy always using my stash.......thanks I will never try it then...magic Stans
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    The sealant Stan's uses now and for awhile has some magic sh!t in it...LOL! You may have noticed the granules of some kind in there...this stuff works so much better than the original Stan's and waaay better than the homemade mold builder latex.
    I've read that in other places too. It seems around '03 they came up with a mixture that stops leaks much better. It's not just watered down latex anymore. Check out the puncture video. http://www.notubes.com/support_movies.php It's fun to watch if nothing else.

    Even though $15 for 16oz is ridiculous I'm willing to splurge on that item. I'm still saving about $50 doing the rest of the kit "ghetto".

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    I've read that in other places too. It seems around '03 they came up with a mixture that stops leaks much better. It's not just watered down latex anymore. Check out the puncture video. http://www.notubes.com/support_movies.php It's fun to watch if nothing else.

    Even though $15 for 16oz is ridiculous I'm willing to splurge on that item. I'm still saving about $50 doing the rest of the kit "ghetto".
    Jenson has a 32oz bottle for $15. I'm probably gonna order one of those suckers, you could do a grip of tires with that much sealant and it comes out to way cheaper than the slime stuff I got in the store.
    cycle tracks will abound in utopia.

  24. #24
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    I've been using Stan's for a few months now. Doubletracks and 2.5 Kenda Nevegals DH casing.

    I tried the ghetto system and could never get it to seal up. The Stan's sealant is definitely different than Mold Builder. It has fibers in it that seal up the punctures really quick.

    I love the weight savings. I was using heavy DH tubes before. I decided to try and save some weight in the wheels. First I replaced the Doubletracks with lighter Alex Supra D rims. They lasted less than a month before they were destroyed and the Doubletracks went back on. By going tubeless I actually saved more weight than changing rims!

    Now for the downside. With the DH tubes, I didn't get a flat tire in 3 years of riding. I tried lighter tubes and got pinch flats. With the Stan's I'm able to run higher psi (32lbs) and get the same traction I was getting before with 20-24 psi. That's a good thing. Bad thing is I have gotten 2 flats in the 3 months I've used Stan's that didn't seal up. The first was a cut in the sidewall, the second was an 1/8" puncture in the tread. Both times were on particularly hard landings on jagged rock. It may have been that both time would have punctured a tube as well, but I've been riding the same trails for years and never flatted with DH tubes so I don't know. I'm not giving up on tubeless yet, I like the weight savings and lower rolling resistance from the higher psi, but if I keep flatting, I'll be forced to return to tubes.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by davet
    I've been using Stan's for a few months now. Doubletracks and 2.5 Kenda Nevegals DH casing.

    I tried the ghetto system and could never get it to seal up. The Stan's sealant is definitely different than Mold Builder. It has fibers in it that seal up the punctures really quick.

    I love the weight savings. I was using heavy DH tubes before. I decided to try and save some weight in the wheels. First I replaced the Doubletracks with lighter Alex Supra D rims. They lasted less than a month before they were destroyed and the Doubletracks went back on. By going tubeless I actually saved more weight than changing rims!

    Now for the downside. With the DH tubes, I didn't get a flat tire in 3 years of riding. I tried lighter tubes and got pinch flats. With the Stan's I'm able to run higher psi (32lbs) and get the same traction I was getting before with 20-24 psi. That's a good thing. Bad thing is I have gotten 2 flats in the 3 months I've used Stan's that didn't seal up. The first was a cut in the sidewall, the second was an 1/8" puncture in the tread. Both times were on particularly hard landings on jagged rock. It may have been that both time would have punctured a tube as well, but I've been riding the same trails for years and never flatted with DH tubes so I don't know. I'm not giving up on tubeless yet, I like the weight savings and lower rolling resistance from the higher psi, but if I keep flatting, I'll be forced to return to tubes.
    i'm trying to test the limits of notubes too...these two incidents sound pretty catastrophic regardless of tubes...i've had burping when landing at an angle (yaw)...kind of want it to happen when you near your truck
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  26. #26
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    Flat out... whats the maintenance like?

    Ok... so I've been shoping and have got everything I need except the bottle of stans goop to go ahead and give this a try but the only thing stoping me is horror stories I keep hearing about the maintanance involved with tubeless.

    .
    .
    ----Looking for experienced tubeless users to help rate these points as fact or fiction----

    ~ I hear that if you go more than like a few days without riding, you could loose the seal.
    ~ After everyride do you need to meticiculously clean all the debris from the space between the rim and tire or risk comprmising the seal?
    ~I heard you cant do it with a tire size lower than 2.5? I've got a 2.35 Mobster going on a doublewide... will it not work?
    SHAM-WOW

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoozinSkin
    Ok... so I've been shoping and have got everything I need except the bottle of stans goop to go ahead and give this a try but the only thing stoping me is horror stories I keep hearing about the maintanance involved with tubeless.

    .
    .
    ----Looking for experienced tubeless users to help rate these points as fact or fiction----

    ~ I hear that if you go more than like a few days without riding, you could loose the seal.
    ~ After everyride do you need to meticiculously clean all the debris from the space between the rim and tire or risk comprmising the seal?
    ~I heard you cant do it with a tire size lower than 2.5? I've got a 2.35 Mobster going on a doublewide... will it not work?
    been tubeless for 8 months with non-UST tires and non-UST rims:

    1.false
    2.false
    3.false
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  28. #28
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    My take.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoozinSkin
    Ok... so I've been shoping and have got everything I need except the bottle of stans goop to go ahead and give this a try but the only thing stoping me is horror stories I keep hearing about the maintanance involved with tubeless.

    I just got though riding with some shop folks visiting from Moab, and they are strong believers in running Stan's too, though they preferred using medium sized UST tires on their big hit bikes for aggressive trail use. Personally and through our shop we've used tubeless Stan setups and UST rims with larger conventional tires and strips for a long time. We've had excellent results with hardly any hiccups in performance or reliability. Our local area also has lots of cactus and mesquite along with rocky, ledgy terrain. You wind up stuffing your wheels into rocks, landing nose heavy, and getting all kinds of thorns in the tires. If you'll notice the background in this pic, every tree is a mesquite, and all those dark spots in the weeds are prickly pear cactus. Even with the flat protection aside, your wheel/tire setups are usually lighter and the flexing quality of the tire carcass provides a better bite for traction and handling.

    .
    .
    ----Looking for experienced tubeless users to help rate these points as fact or fiction----

    ~ I hear that if you go more than like a few days without riding, you could loose the seal.
    ~ After everyride do you need to meticiculously clean all the debris from the space between the rim and tire or risk comprmising the seal?
    ~I heard you cant do it with a tire size lower than 2.5? I've got a 2.35 Mobster going on a doublewide... will it not work?
    On your three questions there, here's my experience and that from all of our shop experience of over 4 years of use from the old days of homemade tubeless to the complete Stan's system today.

    1. False. Unless for some reason the initial setup was flawed, the seal doesn't degrade or come loose after any reasonable amount of time. In fact I've had some of mine hang in my shop building for at least a year. Though they were flat and had no air pressure, The seal between the bead and strip was like a weatherstrip seal on a house window.

    2. False. Unless for some radical reason you had a large "peel back" that allowed weed stems and twigs to get gripped in that area, you don't have to be very meticulous about dirt or small stuff. In fact the seal that really counts is the one between the strip and the tire bead. This seal between the two can be so secure many times that you have to work a little bit to get them separated to install a new tire. After the strip system and/or UST rims came along, I've never had crud get under the bead. With the old homemade tape and mold builder latex method, this would happen infrequently with a bad landing on the front wheel/tire...oddly never happened on the rear for me.

    3. True/False. Using conventional non-UST tires smaller than 2.35 can be "iffy". I'd bet there are even 2.5 and bigger conventional tires that might not be as suitable for running tubeless, but we haven't run into any at our shop yet. There are conventional tires as small as 1.95 that have worked well too. The tire carcass has to have very good integrity to run tubeless as a conventional tire. The beefier carcasses of 2.35 and bigger tires almost always fill this bill.

    Our riding areas have tons of cactus and mesquite thorn trees along with rocky, ledgy terrain. You are frequently stuffing your wheels into rocks, landing nose heavy, and running through cactus and mesquite thorns. Even with flat protection aside, your wheel/tire setups are usually lighter, and the tire carcass has a better flexing quality to help with traction and handling. In this pic you can see all our lovely mesquite trees (thorns like 16-penny nails), and all those dark spots in the weeds are prickly pear cactus. In large numbers, we have found proper tubeless setups to be reliable and produce great performance. When we hear horror stories like you describe, we wonder how people are setting up their tires, strips, and wheels.
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    Last edited by TNC; 01-07-2006 at 03:19 PM. Reason: add text

  29. #29
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    if you let your ride sit for months, like over winter storage, u will possibly need to add more sealant and reinflate. but like TNC says, it is pretty much maintainence free. i have been tubeless for almost 3 years and find it it awesome in every type of riding except street and DJ. for that kind of riding the tubeless system just cant hold pressures high enough. i have tried the ghetto and real system, now i do it all ghetto. strip your rim down, then put in 1 layer of electrical tape, use a 20" tube split, then trim it so it fills the rim, put tire on, pour in sealant by removing 1/3 of 1 bead, replace bead, and my fav trick (from stan) get a pail of soapy water and just lather it all over the bead/sidewall. this helps the seal and lets u see leaks. system is maintainence free for whole riding season now!

  30. #30
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    Am I stupid if I don't use the legit Stan's sealant? I'm planning on doing the ghetto conversion but I'm wondering if the Stan's stuff is really worth the extra money (and the wait as either my LBS would have to order it or I'd get it from jensonusa for 15$).

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dandurston
    Am I stupid if I don't use the legit Stan's sealant? I'm planning on doing the ghetto conversion but I'm wondering if the Stan's stuff is really worth the extra money (and the wait as either my LBS would have to order it or I'd get it from jensonusa for 15$).
    definitely not stupid...if you read the patent issued to Stan's, the magic ingredient in the mixture is corn meal...very finely ground no doubt...this is the agent that plugs the holes so quickly...if you make a home brew sealant, you really need to add something like this to act as a 'plugger'

    stan's is way over priced base on the components...by thinking and putting in a little effort, you can save a lot of money and perhaps make a system that is better
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  32. #32
    RTM
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    one last question about the whole tubeless conversion. assuming weight loss is the key benefit, couldn't I just go with some super light weight tubes and put stan's directly into them? that way I'd get the best of both worlds right?

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    Stan's won't work.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    one last question about the whole tubeless conversion. assuming weight loss is the key benefit, couldn't I just go with some super light weight tubes and put stan's directly into them? that way I'd get the best of both worlds right?
    Stan's formula is designed to seal tires not tubes. A tube requires a thicker solution with suspended fibers to plug holes in that application. Stan's is designed to move quickly in a tire carcass to seal a hole in the thicker walled tire carcass. Tubeless Slime is a thicker solution with small suspended rubber particles which seem to work pretty good when there is enough of it. It doesn't move very fast in the tire and takes longer to get to the puncture. I'm experimenting with a mix of Stan's and tubeless Slime...not sure yet if it's superior.

  34. #34
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    i'm going tubeless tomarrow, or i'm gonna get some dh tubes...
    SOCAL UNION REPREZENT
    Quote Originally Posted by JBsoxB
    does it still qualify as a mountainbike?
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    I've beat beer cans on my limp pee pee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    I'm experimenting with a mix of Stan's and tubeless Slime...not sure yet if it's superior.
    I've been using a mix of 2 parts Stan's to 1 part Slime Tubeless for almost 2 years now with good results. Seems to seal the larger leaks better than pure Stan's.

    No scientific "screwdriver poking" data or anything, just that since I've made that change, I haven't gotten one single flat. Before, with pure Stan's, I got 2 in a year.

    BTW, initial seal-up seams maybe a little tougher, but still works out well if you use the MBA shake it all around, lay it on one side, wait, then repeat on the other side approach.

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    Good to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    I've been using a mix of 2 parts Stan's to 1 part Slime Tubeless for almost 2 years now with good results. Seems to seal the larger leaks better than pure Stan's.

    No scientific "screwdriver poking" data or anything, just that since I've made that change, I haven't gotten one single flat. Before, with pure Stan's, I got 2 in a year.

    BTW, initial seal-up seams maybe a little tougher, but still works out well if you use the MBA shake it all around, lay it on one side, wait, then repeat on the other side approach.
    It seems totally reliable, and I've been using it for several months now. I too am thinking that it might be a little better with slightly bigger holes, but it's hard to qualify, isn't it? It certainly hasn't given any negative issues to the already great performance of Stan's alone, so I'll stay with it until a problem arises.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    it might be a little better with slightly bigger holes, but it's hard to qualify, isn't it?
    and not something you really WANT to quantify if you can help it. the puncture video on Stan's web site makes me cringe.

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    i have a stans kti will it work with 2.3 my highrollers on a 321 rim?

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    Ok, I picked up the stuff for the Ghetto tubeless conversion. My LBS did have a 16oz (473ml) jug of the legit Stans stuff for 19.99$ Canadian plus another 4.99$ each for the 20" tubes. I've already got electrical tape on my Sun MTX rims so I should be good to go.

    The only question I have at this point is should I convert them now although it's winter here or wait until spring? I could convert them and go for a 20min ride immediately but I won't be using the bike much until March/April and it sits in my room so is it bad to convert them and then let it sit for 2 mths? There really is no good reason to convert them now except I'm excited to do it and I'd like to get it overwith.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dandurston
    There really is no good reason to convert them now except I'm excited to do it and I'd like to get it overwith.
    I'm in exactly the same situation. On the one hand I want to hold off, on the other, i know if I do I'll just find more stuff to upgrade and work on = more $$$. This biking thing is worse than crack. I'm going to do mine immediately. why fight it? and it will motivate me to get out there even for a 20 minute ride now and then regardless of the weather.

  41. #41
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    a thread from the passion forum:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=157493

    with a link to homemade tubeless instructions:
    http://www.geocities.com/etrexkb/no_flat.htm

  42. #42
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    On Stan's & drying out.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    I'm in exactly the same situation. On the one hand I want to hold off, on the other, i know if I do I'll just find more stuff to upgrade and work on = more $$$. This biking thing is worse than crack. I'm going to do mine immediately. why fight it? and it will motivate me to get out there even for a 20 minute ride now and then regardless of the weather.
    The funny thing about Stan's is that it will last in the tire for about 3 months, sometimes more, during cooler/cold months. It can only last a month if you ride and store your bike where temps consistently get 95-100. If the bike gets stored in an air conditioned house or such during hot summer temps, it lasts twice as long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dandurston
    Ok, I picked up the stuff for the Ghetto tubeless conversion. My LBS did have a 16oz (473ml) jug of the legit Stans stuff for 19.99$ Canadian plus another 4.99$ each for the 20" tubes. I've already got electrical tape on my Sun MTX rims so I should be good to go.

    The only question I have at this point is should I convert them now although it's winter here or wait until spring? I could convert them and go for a 20min ride immediately but I won't be using the bike much until March/April and it sits in my room so is it bad to convert them and then let it sit for 2 mths? There really is no good reason to convert them now except I'm excited to do it and I'd like to get it overwith.
    go ahead and convert them...just don't add the sealant until you will need it....the tires don't necessarily need the sealant to fill with air....or you could put in only a spoonfull...it pretty cool just setting up the tires i like doing it...cool knowing that you don't have any tubes in your tires

    i don't think the sealant will have a detrimental effect on your tires...the sealant is basically water...time will just make the sealant go bad, not be able to plug up

    you need the practice setting them up anyway...an air compressor is very helpful
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    I don't quite get it. I don't think Kenda uses any special rubber or compound that would react with Stan's, tubeless Slime or other sealant. I had a Kenda Kinetic on one of my bikes for over a year with Stans, and there was no degradation of the tire, inside or out. Other guys are using other Kendas in tubeless setup with no problems. Sounds like a lawyer deal or something. Not flaming you Red, but I think Kenda is full of it on that warning. Maybe a lawyer got a shot of Stan's sealant in his while checking his Kenda tires...LOL!
    Well I know others have had issues and not just with Kendas. Alot of other mfgs are releasing similiar statements.

    While I agree it may not be anything specific to Kenda tires, I just thought people ought to know of the suggested problems, so they can make an informed decision and don;t feel burned when they find out later after a warranty claim.

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    Cool...I'll likely get it done this week. I've got an air compressor so I should be good to go.

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    I'm really stoked about how smooth everything is going. The 20" BMX tubes were easier to stretch on than I was imagining. I easily inflated them and got them straight so I could slit them which also went super smooth. I threw my tires on without any soap or anything and using my air compresser they pumped right up. I pumped them to 30psi and without any Stans they were still at 20psi an hour later. I'm buying a valve core remover tool today so that I can insert the Stans goop but it sounds like I won't need to use too much. I'm thinking 60ml (2oz).

    As for the weight difference, I took out my Specialized freeride tubes and they weighted 250g each. The BMX tube I was throwing in weighed 120g. When I cut the sidewalls off I weighed each side as 30g so the total weight of the modified BMX tube is just 60g. I then weighed the stans stuff and found it to be right about 1g per ml which means I'll be adding another 60g to my wheels which means the total weight of the tube + goop is 120g. This means I'm saving 130g/wheel for a total savings of 260g or 0.57lbs. Pretty cool stuff...I totally recommend this mod. My Maxxis Holy Rollers (2.4") seem like great tires for the conversion in combination with my Sun MTX rims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dandurston
    I'm really stoked about how smooth everything is going. The 20" BMX tubes were easier to stretch on than I was imagining. I easily inflated them and got them straight so I could slit them which also went super smooth. I threw my tires on without any soap or anything and using my air compresser they pumped right up. I pumped them to 30psi and without any Stans they were still at 20psi an hour later. I'm buying a valve core remover tool today so that I can insert the Stans goop but it sounds like I won't need to use too much. I'm thinking 60ml (2oz).

    As for the weight difference, I took out my Specialized freeride tubes and they weighted 250g each. The BMX tube I was throwing in weighed 120g. When I cut the sidewalls off I weighed each side as 30g so the total weight of the modified BMX tube is just 60g. I then weighed the stans stuff and found it to be right about 1g per ml which means I'll be adding another 60g to my wheels which means the total weight of the tube + goop is 120g. This means I'm saving 130g/wheel for a total savings of 260g or 0.57lbs. Pretty cool stuff...I totally recommend this mod. My Maxxis Holy Rollers (2.4") seem like great tires for the conversion in combination with my Sun MTX rims.
    cool, i should have tried ghetto first...went with stan's, unfortunately...you are saving a boat load of money this way...he wants $25 per strip!! i bet you can reuse that rim strip you made from the bmx tube....best part is you don't have any presta sheet on your bike... cool
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dandurston
    I'm really stoked about how smooth everything is going. The 20" BMX tubes were easier to stretch on than I was imagining. I easily inflated them and got them straight so I could slit them which also went super smooth. I threw my tires on without any soap or anything and using my air compresser they pumped right up. I pumped them to 30psi and without any Stans they were still at 20psi an hour later. I'm buying a valve core remover tool today so that I can insert the Stans goop but it sounds like I won't need to use too much. I'm thinking 60ml (2oz).

    As for the weight difference, I took out my Specialized freeride tubes and they weighted 250g each. The BMX tube I was throwing in weighed 120g. When I cut the sidewalls off I weighed each side as 30g so the total weight of the modified BMX tube is just 60g. I then weighed the stans stuff and found it to be right about 1g per ml which means I'll be adding another 60g to my wheels which means the total weight of the tube + goop is 120g. This means I'm saving 130g/wheel for a total savings of 260g or 0.57lbs. Pretty cool stuff...I totally recommend this mod. My Maxxis Holy Rollers (2.4") seem like great tires for the conversion in combination with my Sun MTX rims.
    dan, got a question of you about the setup...presumably the bmx tube you used does not have a lock ring on the valve, right? so when you went to inflate with the compressor, did you have any trouble pressing the compressor valve onto the bmx tube valve...like not being able to push the compressor vavle on hard and pushing the rim strip off the inside of the rim

    thanks
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

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    I understand what you're saying but no there were no issues. The hole in my rim is the perfect size so you can only push the valve out if you are pushing perfectly straight on. Otherwise the metal rim just bites into the rubber valve and holds it in place. Even if this wasn't the case, there would still be no issues because you could always push down on the tire to hold it in place or if it really came to this, you could use a compressor that screws right on the valve stem. Lastly, the valve stems are long enough that you could always hold onto it with your fingers or needle nose pliers if you need to.

    Even if you did push the valve stem up a bit your homemade rim strip is held in place by the tire sidewalls quite well so you aren't going to tear it out unless you really go crazy.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dandurston
    I understand what you're saying but no there were no issues. The hole in my rim is the perfect size so you can only push the valve out if you are pushing perfectly straight on. Otherwise the metal rim just bites into the rubber valve and holds it in place. Even if this wasn't the case, there would still be no issues because you could always push down on the tire to hold it in place or if it really came to this, you could use a compressor that screws right on the valve stem. Lastly, the valve stems are long enough that you could always hold onto it with your fingers or needle nose pliers if you need to.

    Even if you did push the valve stem up a bit your homemade rim strip is held in place by the tire sidewalls quite well so you aren't going to tear it out unless you really go crazy.
    nice, i will try this on a second pair of rims i have
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  51. #51
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    I started mine tonight, but I was working on some other stuff and I ran out of time before I could really get going. Got the tires off and the new tubes mounted. Thanks for the feedback Dan. This is really interesting and helpful. Please give us the status after you get the sealant going. I'll try to remember to get some pics of my installation and post my results also.

  52. #52
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    wow, my install went great! no pics, sorry guys. I got on a roll and didn't want to stop to get the camera. basically if you follow the write up I posted earlier in the thread you are golden.

    here are a few additional tips;

    when stretching the 20" tube over your rim, put the stem through the hole in the rim and use that as your start/end point. when you get about half way around the stem will help hold the tube like a third hand.

    after you've got the tube on the rim inflate it just enough to plump it up. then go around the rim and work it with your fingers. it really helps the tube to settle into a centered/straight on position and distribute the "stretch" evenly.

    while inflated, GENTLY slit about an inch down the center line of the tube with a razor knife. this is the best way to create an opening for the scissors to make the cut all the way around.

    last, and this one is really good - discovered it by luck...after you've got the tire almost completely seated, and you need to use the levers to finish it off, pull the tube to the opposite side of the rim so you've only got about 1/4" of tube sticking out where the lever will be prying. after you've got the tire pried into place, wiggle the tube back to the "equal on both sides" position. you'll see slices in the tube where the lever crushed the it against the rim. doing what I said above puts those slices on the outer edge of the tube flap which will be removed anyway, rather than closer to the center where it may end up along the bead line.

    that's about it. I can't believe how well the installation went. I inflated my tires to 40psi last night, and they hadn't lost ANY pressure this morning even after sitting in a cold basement overnight. And that's before adding the Stan's sealant.

    So far this mod has been awesome. $5.00 for two 20" BMX tubes, $15 for 32oz of Stan's (I splurged for the good stuff just to be safe), -.5lb per tire. Of course, this review is all based on installation only. I'll have to get back you guys after the DH season starts in May to see how good it is functionally speaking.

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    What I have found is you can't run your air pressure that much lower than with tubes if you are using non-UST tires. The sidewalls don't seem to be as strong and I have folded them a few times landing some jumps when running low tire pressure.
    The initial set up can be a pain but maintaining them is no biggie. It is very useful to have an air compressor the first time and if the tires are new, it helps to put them on with a tube first, fill it at a high pressure and let them sit for a day or two. It will stretch the tube a bit and make using Stans a bit easier on the first try.

    I had my doubts about Stans at first till I figured out the right air pressure that worked for my tires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    wow, my install went great! no pics, sorry guys. I got on a roll and didn't want to stop to get the camera. basically if you follow the write up I posted earlier in the thread you are golden.

    here are a few additional tips;

    when stretching the 20" tube over your rim, put the stem through the hole in the rim and use that as your start/end point. when you get about half way around the stem will help hold the tube like a third hand.

    after you've got the tube on the rim inflate it just enough to plump it up. then go around the rim and work it with your fingers. it really helps the tube to settle into a centered/straight on position and distribute the "stretch" evenly.

    while inflated, GENTLY slit about an inch down the center line of the tube with a razor knife. this is the best way to create an opening for the scissors to make the cut all the way around.

    last, and this one is really good - discovered it by luck...after you've got the tire almost completely seated, and you need to use the levers to finish it off, pull the tube to the opposite side of the rim so you've only got about 1/4" of tube sticking out where the lever will be prying. after you've got the tire pried into place, wiggle the tube back to the "equal on both sides" position. you'll see slices in the tube where the lever crushed the it against the rim. doing what I said above puts those slices on the outer edge of the tube flap which will be removed anyway, rather than closer to the center where it may end up along the bead line.

    that's about it. I can't believe how well the installation went. I inflated my tires to 40psi last night, and they hadn't lost ANY pressure this morning even after sitting in a cold basement overnight. And that's before adding the Stan's sealant.

    So far this mod has been awesome. $5.00 for two 20" BMX tubes, $15 for 32oz of Stan's (I splurged for the good stuff just to be safe), -.5lb per tire. Of course, this review is all based on installation only. I'll have to get back you guys after the DH season starts in May to see how good it is functionally speaking.
    nice write-up bro...this is a great solution to the expensive stan's system...i'm betting that these home made rim strips will be re-usable...i'd like to know if someone has...save a ton of money this way and you get schrader valves...presta is so XC gooney
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  55. #55
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    I have not had much luck re-using the bmx tubes. Could probably be done but they are only 3.00 each.
    The Super T you have is really a very good fork. I'd take that fork over a Fox 40 or a Boxer unless i was entering a fashon contest instead of a race

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane
    i'm betting that these home made rim strips will be re-usable...i'd like to know if someone has...save a ton of money this way and you get schrader valves...presta is so XC gooney
    I agree with you about the valves. they just don't fit DH (style wise).

    as for re-using the tubes I think it would be more hassle than it's worth. once you trim the excess, it would be tough to keep it in proper position when you remount a tire. I'm going to carry a spare tube for trailside repairs and buy a few extra 20" tubes to keep in the shop or bring on road trips in case I ever need to redo the strips. At $2.50/tube it's the cheapest thing on the darn bike, well, beside my Diablo sticker...but just barely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    I agree with you about the valves. they just don't fit DH (style wise).

    as for re-using the tubes I think it would be more hassle than it's worth. once you trim the excess, it would be tough to keep it in proper position when you remount a tire. I'm going to carry a spare tube for trailside repairs and buy a few extra 20" tubes to keep in the shop or bring on road trips in case I ever need to redo the strips. At $2.50/tube it's the cheapest thing on the darn bike, well, beside my Diablo sticker...but just barely.
    I've been keeping a close eye on this "ghetto tubeless" system and I'm curious...how is repeatedly spending $2.50 on a tube too redo your setup cheaper than just buying the reusable stans strips for $25.00? After 5 tire changes/flats/swaps you'd have paid for the Stans strip. Seems the ghetto system could be costly over time. Just a thought.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankenschwinn
    I have not had much luck re-using the bmx tubes. Could probably be done but they are only 3.00 each.
    frank...do you remember what the issue was? yeah, tubes are $3 but you have to take the time to do it again....i'll have to try me own
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    I agree with you about the valves. they just don't fit DH (style wise).

    as for re-using the tubes I think it would be more hassle than it's worth. once you trim the excess, it would be tough to keep it in proper position when you remount a tire. I'm going to carry a spare tube for trailside repairs and buy a few extra 20" tubes to keep in the shop or bring on road trips in case I ever need to redo the strips. At $2.50/tube it's the cheapest thing on the darn bike, well, beside my Diablo sticker...but just barely.
    presta are simply 1983...if you race it's just ridiculous to deal with presta adapters and junk, anything else with a tire has schrader...yeah, i bought stans because i thought ghetto would not work...but after getting the stans strips i can see that ghetto should work...what i observe with these stans strips is that you don't need to have the rim strip over the rim..the stans rim strip imo is to seal off the rim valley where the spoke holes are (i.e. that the rim strip doesn't make contact with the tire or is not between the tire and rim)....this is why i think it is very likely that a converted bmx tube can be used again

    anyway...i'll do this in the near future and test out this hypothesis
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

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    If I'm going from a lightweight Specialized 1.5-2.2 presta tube would I save weight with tubeless? Thanks a lot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    I agree with you about the valves. they just don't fit DH (style wise).

    as for re-using the tubes I think it would be more hassle than it's worth. once you trim the excess, it would be tough to keep it in proper position when you remount a tire. I'm going to carry a spare tube for trailside repairs and buy a few extra 20" tubes to keep in the shop or bring on road trips in case I ever need to redo the strips. At $2.50/tube it's the cheapest thing on the darn bike, well, beside my Diablo sticker...but just barely.
    OK, i did some R&D tonight...found 24 inch shrader tubes at the local Kmart, so did not buy the 20 inchers. These fit on the rim very easily...slit it open longitudinally with scissors and washed the talcum powder off...fit an IRC tire on there and the tire inflated on first attempt...then i trimmed all the excess from both sides with a razor blade...then i let the air out and demounted the tire and rim strip from the rim...then i refit the DIY rim strip and slipped the tire back on...took 3 sec to make sure the rim strip was sitting evenly in the rim...then hit it with the compressor, inflated first attempt....as i'm writing this the tire has held air for over 60 min without any sealant inside

    the above procedure was performed in 20 min...a good 5 minutes for the careful trimming process, so as not to cut the tire...and 5 min running back and forth to the garage for the compressor

    this experiment has proven to me that stans is way over priced and that my DIY rim strips will be completely reusable...the 24 inch tube was $3.15 (prolly cheaper elsewhere)...now i can get some rest knowing i'll never have to deal with presta again....
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

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    Good point on how the tube/rim strip really only needs to seal the spoke holes and where the valve exits...the Stan's goop will seal where the tire meets the rim even if the tube isn't there. Perhaps that's why others haven't noticed that using the tire lever leaves bike marks because it really isn't an issue.

    Anyways, all I wanted to say is that if you're totally about saving weight than strips from 20" tubes will be lighter than 24" cuz your rubber is stretched a bit more. I imagine some lightweight BMX tubes could be cut down to weight very little.

    I bought pretty std BMX tubes and originally they weighed 120g which was down to 60g after I cut the sides off. Then you need to add 50-80ml of the Stans solution which weighs pretty much 1g per ml so another 50-80g. For most people that means you are saving the weight of a tube but adding about 110-140g which is probably what a super light XC tubes weights to begin with so you really only benefits from being more flat resistant and have more traction.

    However, if you got some lightweight BMX tubes that weigh maybe 70g to start with you could hack em down to 35 once you cut the sides off and then if you only added 50ml of solution your total weight would likely be about 85g.

    Does anyone know how much the Stans strips weigh? They can't weigh too much...I wonder if you could just cut the BMX tube into a narrow strip to just cover the electrical tape....I imagine that would work and you'd really be rolling light.

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    Sep 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    how is repeatedly spending $2.50 on a tube too redo your setup cheaper than just buying the reusable stans strips for $25.00? After 5 tire changes/flats/swaps you'd have paid for the Stans strip.
    I see where you're going and if it was $25 for TWO Stan's strips I'd consider it. But if you break down the cost of the $75 DH kit, it's actually $25 for EACH strip. That's assuming the valves are a whopping $5 each. In reality, it's not 5 BMX strips, but 10-12 BMX strips per Stan's strip.

    Now, I ride the same tires all season in all conditions. 10 changes per tire should (knock wood) last me a good long time. My only concern with re-using the BMX strip in it's originally trimmed size would be folding the tube back over itself and creating a kink. The kink would probably seal with Stans immediately but it wouldn't be perfectly flush. I've got total OCD that way. If you were to trim down the BMX strip to be flush with the inside of the rim bead, this wouldn't be an issue. However, as mentioned above the strips are reusable without much fuss anyway.

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