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  1. #1
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    Truvativ HammerSchmidt

    Anyone got more scoop yet?

    https://www.magicmechanics.com/

    The latest Decline issue has an ad/photo of what it looks like.

    Other articles here and here.


  2. #2
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    looks interesting.

  3. #3
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    I'm guessing it's either 2 or 3 gears just meant to replace the front rings. Be pretty cool on a single speed bike because you still get some ratios in there without a derailleur.
    Ground Steeze. @iggy_strbac

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikemybike011
    Be pretty cool on a single speed bike because you still get some ratios in there without a derailleur.

    Good thinkin'!

    P

    Doh! just realized one might still need a tensioner, so weight savings may not be too significant. (gotta love speculation)
    Last edited by Mr.P; 07-27-2008 at 10:57 PM.

  5. #5
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    or a fixie
    that would be neato

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by holoholo
    why should I search google--when I can get a know-it-all like you to do it?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamikazee ideki
    thats some awesome carpet in that norco pic!

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    So does diamondback.... lol
    Ground Steeze. @iggy_strbac

  9. #9
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    Scott as well.

  10. #10
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    so, how do you shift gears on this?

  11. #11
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    Where we really need this technology is in the rear where we are smashing and bashing deraillers and having all kinds of problems. I'd like to see bent hangers and cages be a thing of the past.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikemybike011
    So does diamondback.... lol
    True - the following page ad in Decline shows a Diamondback "Goat" with one mounted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    Where we really need this technology is in the rear where we are smashing and bashing deraillers and having all kinds of problems. I'd like to see bent hangers and cages be a thing of the past.

    I second that! SRAM did buy a wheel company last year, so that probably is in the near future. Especially if the HammerSchmidt is a success with the true testers of the world.

  14. #14
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    Probably the only crankset from Truvativ I've ever wanted to check out...
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  15. #15
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    Other tidbits I just found:


    Bike Mag:

    Had a very interesting morning yesterday. It all started with a bright-and-early 7 A.M. breakfast with a representative of SRAM (which was super fun to wake up for after the premiere of and party for Kranked 7: The Cackle Factor held Sea Otter in Monterey over the weekend).

    After some bacon and eggs I was thrown into a van driven by Tyler Moreland (are Canadian free riders really just allowed to drive in this country? Shouldn’t’ there be some special licensing involved? Waivers? Anyone?).

    Anyways we arrived at the Embassy Suites in Monterey and I was led past a security guard to a dark room. There an attractive young girl blindfolded me, and I know what you’re thinking—girl, blindfold, dark hotel room? This is where it gets freaky! And how!

    But this was really, really freaky. (And because we’re talking about mountain bikes here the girl quickly disappeared…)

    But once inside I was told I had 30 seconds to ride a bike set up on a trainer. I knew what to look for (figuratively speaking, I’m still blindfolded at this point): the front shifting.

    This whole elaborate rouse was set up by SRAM as the first real taste of a “revolutionary” front shifting system SRAM has been working on for months now. The shifter only had two positions, and by feathering the rear brake and shifting at the same time I could feel the gear ratio changing. What I didn’t find was the clackety-clunk of a traditional front derailleur in action. Instead the shifting action came smoothly, via the same sensation you get from an internal 3-speed beach cruiser hub.

    So that’s all the info we have for now, but there you have it. SRAM’s Hammerschmidt, which we teased HERE last month, promises to take the front derailleur out of front shifting. The possible benefits are many. (Think single-ring, go-anywhere bike with a bashguard/chain retention device of your choice.) Stay tuned.

    So that’s all the info we have for now, but there you have it. SRAM’s Hammerschmidt, which we teased HERE last month, promises to take the front derailleur out of front shifting. The possible benefits are many. (Think single-ring, go-anywhere bike with a bashguard/chain retention device of your choice.) Stay tuned.



    Decline Mag:

    During the Sea Otter, I was invited to a secret breakfast with Eric Schutt from SRAM. I figured it was to check out the new transmission system I’ve heard rumors about.

    After breakfast, a few other journos and I were tossed into a van driven by Tyler Morland. As he squealed out of the parking lot, we were told to put on bandana blindfolds. We arrived at the Embassy Suites hotel and taken one by one into a dark room to “test ride” the new shift system on a trainer. It was an odd scene but I did get an impression of what is coming.

    Called the HammerSchmidt, the shift system works on a normal feeling Trigger shifter and I’m pretty sure it is located on the crank. It shifts extremely smooth and fast, and doesn’t require the cranks to be spinning. The HammerSchmidt offers two gear options that feel similar to a 23/34-tooth combo. It is obvious that the system does not use chainrings and may have a design similar to a planetary gear system, but I am only speculating. That’s about all I can tell you until SRAM lets us take a look at it. For now, sign up at SRAM’s Magic Mechanics propaganda website for updates.

  16. #16
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    Images found in a Russian forum:







    Although these prototypes look different than what's in the Decline ad.

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  18. #18
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    Yes - thanks, TA. That looks like the FR version. Did you see the Diamondback ad on the following page (assuming this was from Decline)?

  19. #19
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    How many versions will there be? So that is the freeride, will there be a DH as well? or perhaps an AM?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    Yes - thanks, TA. That looks like the FR version. Did you see the Diamondback ad on the following page (assuming this was from Decline)?
    Nah slotted from RM
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  21. #21
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    i still don't get the point to be honest. ok, cool idea, but who has problems with their front derailler? a cheap blackspire guide plus a front derailler and wham, you're good to go. I can't imagine it saves alot of weight over something like an xt 2 ring gamut bash blackspire guide xt front derailler setup. You're still gonna have to run a shifter, and its not like front ders are THAT heavy...I can't imagine this will save weight, I've never had trouble shifting, just don't get the point to be honest...

    guess I'll have to wait and see how much it weighs/how strong it is

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by William42
    i still don't get the point to be honest. ok, cool idea, but who has problems with their front derailler? a cheap blackspire guide plus a front derailler and wham, you're good to go. I can't imagine it saves alot of weight over something like an xt 2 ring gamut bash blackspire guide xt front derailler setup. You're still gonna have to run a shifter, and its not like front ders are THAT heavy...I can't imagine this will save weight, I've never had trouble shifting, just don't get the point to be honest...

    guess I'll have to wait and see how much it weighs/how strong it is
    Hammerschmitt is not about front/rear derailler stuff. It's about suspension-design. More specific: Its about designing an optimal single-pivot suspension system.

  23. #23
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    That guy in the bandana holding the "Powered by SRAM" sign is totally badass.
    Hi I'm GiantGeoff. I don't really ride a Giant at all anymore. But I am pretty tall.

    Nice to meat you.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    more

    Sram makes some pretty cool adds these days, what mag was that?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murx
    Hammerschmitt is not about front/rear derailler stuff. It's about suspension-design. More specific: Its about designing an optimal single-pivot suspension system.
    best first post ever. thanks dude, I hadn't thought of that, but that makes a whole lot of sense. any idea of whether they will come in 83 mm bb versions?

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    2009 DB Mission 3 and Scapegoat will both have HammerSchmidt. Instant shifting - and I mean instant - and the rider does not need to be pedaling to shift.

  27. #27
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    alright - this is sounding insanely cool... the more I hear about it...

    big question: will it be retrofittable to any current bike? (ie. I have an '08 HiFi - will it be compatible??) ... or does it need ISCG mounts?


    cheers

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by William42
    best first post ever. thanks dude, I hadn't thought of that, but that makes a whole lot of sense. any idea of whether they will come in 83 mm bb versions?
    sorry - no idea but why not ....
    - just requires ISCG (not sure which version though)
    obvious question here (see single pivot argument): what size will Hammerschmidt have ?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murx
    - just requires ISCG (not sure which version though)
    I didn't see anywhere that you have to have guide tabs... Makes sense that it would need them, but definately a limiting factor as we seem to have 2 standards to go by mostly... (Not to mention the fact if your frame doesn't have them at all...)

    As a mechanic of sorts, I'm curious about durability. Mostly drive side impacts... I saw a guy at a local race hit his pedal in a rock garden and twisted his crank arm 90 degrees! His pedal was pointing backwards on the downstroke!

    I guess we'll have to wait until September go get the low down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by William42
    i still don't get the point to be honest. ok, cool idea, but who has problems with their front derailler? a cheap blackspire guide plus a front derailler and wham, you're good to go. I can't imagine it saves alot of weight over something like an xt 2 ring gamut bash blackspire guide xt front derailler setup. You're still gonna have to run a shifter, and its not like front ders are THAT heavy...I can't imagine this will save weight, I've never had trouble shifting, just don't get the point to be honest...

    guess I'll have to wait and see how much it weighs/how strong it is

    Dude let's face it....derailluers suck period...they've been around way tooooooo long. Front derailluers really suck. They can be a real ***** to dial in correctly so they are actually smooth and quiet, at least in the middle ring...If you run a 3 ring setup (for what ever sick reason that would be) you get alot of repeated gear ratios. Unless you run tensioners or guide systems the chain loves to come off. And for those that actually use their front derailluer on a regular basis probably doesn't experience smooth shifting that often, unless you make the perfect shift at the perfect moment. Crunch crunch crunch

    From what I've gathered the hammerschmidt takes all those issues away giving the cleanest, smoothest shift ever...but more importantly it is the death of the front derailluer which will soon lead to the death of the rear.

    Either way I perfer a single ring up front so the hammerschmidt doesn't do much for me, but it's the advance in the drivetrain that kicks ass.

    It's 2009 almost, we have disc brakes, bad ass suspension, why the hell are we still using the derailluer that's been around for a 100 years!!!!!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtGash
    Dude let's face it....derailluers suck period...they've been around way tooooooo long. Front derailluers really suck. They can be a real ***** to dial in correctly so they are actually smooth and quiet, at least in the middle ring...If you run a 3 ring setup (for what ever sick reason that would be) you get alot of repeated gear ratios. Unless you run tensioners or guide systems the chain loves to come off. And for those that actually use their front derailluer on a regular basis probably doesn't experience smooth shifting that often, unless you make the perfect shift at the perfect moment. Crunch crunch crunch

    From what I've gathered the hammerschmidt takes all those issues away giving the cleanest, smoothest shift ever...but more importantly it is the death of the front derailluer which will soon lead to the death of the rear.

    Either way I perfer a single ring up front so the hammerschmidt doesn't do much for me, but it's the advance in the drivetrain that kicks ass.

    It's 2009 almost, we have disc brakes, bad ass suspension, why the hell are we still using the derailluer that's been around for a 100 years!!!!!
    lets take this logic further! the wheel has been around for thousands, so we shoud be on some sort of advanced hoverboard ala "back to the future" and why stop there? Our frames should be made out of carbon nano tubes and antigravity, since metal has been around for ages. its 2009!

    blahblahblah.

    I've never had a problem getting a front der setup properly so that it doesn't drop between gears unless the rings are worn to hell and need to be replaced. But at that point, you're screwed even if you don't have a front derailler. With a e13 DRS guide and saint front derailler, I never ever dropped a chain. Now my friend is running that setup (he's using my old DRS) - he too, has not dropped a chain. Another friend on a blackspire. Never dropped a chain. Setting up a front derailler isn't even hard. You look at it from above, its parallel, cool, you set it about a millimeter up from the large chainring, tighten, tension cable, wham, ur done, and it shifts perfectly.

    If this was some revolutionary new way of setting up the rear so that the gears were internal, i'd be stoked and pumped by this, but this just seems kinda useless, save the idea that you can set up single pivots with optimized chainlines so they pedal well in ever gear and you don't have to have that nasty "overdamped" platform feel. I donno, rear deraillers, yah, I can understand dislike. Front deraillers? who gives a crap.

  32. #32
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    Uuuuh... how about being able to grab a handful of gears whilst pedaling hard without the attendant choking on the chainring? If you need to be in a totally different ratio NOW then the front is the way to do it. It's also the side that takes to powershifting the worst. So if this HammerSchmidt biz is strong enough to shift butter smooth on power, and able to shift while not even pedaling then I'd say major innovation.

    Add in a more durable hub shift rear and you have derailleur free nirvana. Can the DH hub be that far behind?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    Sram makes some pretty cool adds these days, what mag was that?

    Decline

    As for ISCG its designed around AM/FR bikes where weight is not such an important factoer and abuse and conditions are more of an issue as well as suspension design effects of operation from whaty Ive read to date!

    Speculation is good but we need to sit back get all the info before poo pooing the idea theyve been working on it for atleast a couple of years so its got to have some promise for that level of investment for this segment of the market! How can ya shoot down somhing ya haven't tried tested or even seen yet, comon guy's put the crack pipe down stay open minded!

    The good thing from my point fo view is it dosen't create any new industry standards apart from a new crankset, there's no new wheels needed, no new frame unless ya don't have ISCG most FR frames do and many AM frames! nothing else special is created and thats a good thing it means it will be able to catch most of its intended market if its worthy or people get it!

    Im not sure if I'd use something like that for DH myself, at speed and stuff happening on the DH course theres enough to think of without left hand shifting as well, just some thoguhts there but who knows maybe if its reliable and light enough, DH bikes are already heavy enough then ts got possiblities but I see the gearbox more of a future for DH bikes, this could definitley take Gboxs away from AM/FR for a while if its as good as it sounds!

    And Norco are going to be first to market by the looks even on a Hardtail thats big imo they must be convinced of its applicatiosn to do that!

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  34. #34
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    This combined with an updated(strengthened) 3 speed rear hub will be rad. Should be plenty of range for any gravity bike. Throw in a frame that sees no chain growth and you have the perfect bike.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murx
    Hammerschmitt is not about front/rear derailler stuff. It's about suspension-design. More specific: Its about designing an optimal single-pivot suspension system.
    What in the **** are you talking bro?
    Ground Steeze. @iggy_strbac

  36. #36
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    Kev you talking about this?
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  37. #37
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    i wonder how it would work out in a Cargo Bike application.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikemybike011
    What in the **** are you talking bro?
    -- the relevant keywords are pedal-induced kickback and bobbing.
    With two or even three chain rings in front you can't design a proper
    single pivot system because the angle between chain pull and pivot changes,
    when you switch from one ring to the other.

    But Hammerschmidt is going to change that. And i guess its going to make a dent in
    the specialized FSR market ...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtGash
    Dude let's face it....derailluers suck period...they've been around way tooooooo long. Front derailluers really suck. They can be a real ***** to dial in correctly so they are actually smooth and quiet, at least in the middle ring...If you run a 3 ring setup (for what ever sick reason that would be) you get alot of repeated gear ratios. Unless you run tensioners or guide systems the chain loves to come off. And for those that actually use their front derailluer on a regular basis probably doesn't experience smooth shifting that often, unless you make the perfect shift at the perfect moment. Crunch crunch crunch

    From what I've gathered the hammerschmidt takes all those issues away giving the cleanest, smoothest shift ever...but more importantly it is the death of the front derailluer which will soon lead to the death of the rear.

    Either way I perfer a single ring up front so the hammerschmidt doesn't do much for me, but it's the advance in the drivetrain that kicks ass.

    It's 2009 almost, we have disc brakes, bad ass suspension, why the hell are we still using the derailluer that's been around for a 100 years!!!!!

    agree.

  40. #40
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    Here are the currently released specs. We are actively lobbying for more info

    Specs

    Model Description HammerSchmidt AM/FR
    Compatible Chain Type PC991, PC971, PC951
    Interface HammerSchmidt
    ChainRing 22t or 24t
    Bottom Bracket 68mm, 73mm, 83mm
    Option 1 22t
    Option 2 24t
    Option 3 ISCG 03
    Option 4 ISCG 05


    V.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmajor
    Option 1 22t
    Option 2 24t
    Option 3 ISCG 03
    Option 4 ISCG 05
    So does that mean there are 2 options that don’t require ISCG mounts?

  42. #42
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    I think it means that you can choose a 22t or 24t ring. I cannot see where it says that non-ISCG version is available.

    I'll post any new info as I get it.

    V.

  43. #43
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    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by vmajor
    Here are the currently released specs. We are actively lobbying for more info

    Specs

    Model Description HammerSchmidt AM/FR
    Compatible Chain Type PC991, PC971, PC951
    Interface HammerSchmidt
    ChainRing 22t or 24t
    Bottom Bracket 68mm, 73mm, 83mm
    Option 1 22t
    Option 2 24t
    Option 3 ISCG 03
    Option 4 ISCG 05


    V.

    So if you chose 22T or 24T, what is the second ratio? 34T? 36T?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    So does that mean there are 2 options that don’t require ISCG mounts?
    Assuming there actually is a non-ISCG option (which btw would be SWEET for us non-ICSG wielding folks ) - I'm thinking it might have a little brace that attaches much like a front derailleur. Just that little extra as the press fit into the BB probably wouldn't be enough to prevent the whole assembly from possibly spinning under high torque.

    Might be hope yet for those of us that don't have a frame with ISCG mounts (which no doubt would be the better option, but it's nice there's a possible alternative).


    cheers

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bustanutley
    This combined with an updated(strengthened) 3 speed rear hub will be rad. Should be plenty of range for any gravity bike. Throw in a frame that sees no chain growth and you have the perfect bike.
    All they need to do is come up with a 4.5 gear rear hub and I can have my 9speeds

  46. #46
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    I do not think it works like that.

    The 22t or 24t is just the size of the outer, drive ring. What the actual ratio is in terms of the current technology is unknown to me.

    So I cannot answer what is the next effective ratio.

    The consensus is that there are three ratios. I am guessing they would correspond to 22/32/44 and perhaps 24/34/46 ...I have no idea yet.

    V.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmajor
    I do not think it works like that.

    The 22t or 24t is just the size of the outer, drive ring. What the actual ratio is in terms of the current technology is unknown to me.

    So I cannot answer what is the next effective ratio.

    The consensus is that there are three ratios. I am guessing they would correspond to 22/32/44 and perhaps 24/34/46 ...I have no idea yet.

    V.
    Well if it's a single planetary, chances are only 2 gear ratios (2 forward that is) - you could have a 3rd ratio with a planetary, but would be reverse rotation. (EDIT: actually, a third forward ratio could be had by locking two of the three gear elements (planet, sun, ring) to get 1:1)

    Being geared (no pun intended ) to the AM and FR segment - which most often these days come with dual ring + bash setup, it would all make sense.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    Being geared (no pun intended ) to the AM and FR segment
    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=puns


  49. #49
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    TA> That's the ad! Thanks, bro...

  50. #50
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    Planetary gears... thats so simple I can't believe someone hasn't thought of it yet. Cool stuff.
    Bike good, work bad.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clutchman83
    Planetary gears... thats so simple I can't believe someone hasn't thought of it yet. Cool stuff.
    eh....page one of mtbr.com

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/german-...n-join-forces/

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khemical
    They will both be on display at Eurobike apparently.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deme Moore
    ...Can the DH hub be that far behind?
    It exists, it's called a "Rholloff" (sp?). It just costs about a grand or more.

  54. #54
    Trophy Husband
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    So I can look forward to a "granny ring" gear ratio when installed on my Sunday? This could be my new XC race weapon .
    Extreme stationary biker.

  55. #55
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    Quick calculation shows these planetary cranks combined with old school 3speed hub technology would be rad

    Crank 36 22

    Derailleur Cassette Ratio Ratio
    11 3.272727273 2
    13 2.769230769 1.692307692
    16 2.25 1.375
    20 1.8 1.1
    23 1.565217391 0.956521739
    26 1.384615385 0.846153846
    30 1.2 0.733333333


    Hub
    4:3 14 3.428571429 2.095238095
    1:1 2.571428571 1.571428571
    3:4 1.928571429 1.178571429

    Humm, seems BB hates spaces

  56. #56
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    OK I got more info,

    its indeed a 2 forward ratio thing. Here they are:

    Ratios: 1st, 1:1, 2nd, 1:1.6

    So depending on the ring you choose/comes with (22t or 24t), you will have the equivalent of either 22/35 or 24/38. The higer gear ratio depends on teh exact gear ratio of the HM. I think it may actually be a bit over 1.6 to achieve the 36 and 39 rather than the little odd 35 and 38.

    Cheers,

    V.

  57. #57
    LCW
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    more Hammerschmidt... Look at the Shore 1 (scroll down a bit in this link...) https://www.nsmb.com/page/s/2569/nor...the-big-bikes/

    odd that it has an X-9 rear shifter but X-0 front shifter (but good to see it's a trigger shift for the hammerschidt and not twist grip)






    getting more and more interesting as it draws nearer to official release...


    cheers

  58. #58
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    NICE...

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168

    NICE...
    Holy crap! That is sick!!! I need one.

  60. #60
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    That Scott looks nice but that Norco Shore is sicktor! I would buy one in a heartbeat.

  61. #61
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    one thing being overlooked here especially by the critics / skeptics, look at the ****ing clearance you will never get that kind of clearance with a big ring up front

  62. #62
    ******ed or Branded??
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    I wonder if this concept be used as an internal shifter in a cassette mold so that you don't have a der. hanging out there to be smashed.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianPreston
    one thing being overlooked here especially by the critics / skeptics, look at the ****ing clearance you will never get that kind of clearance with a big ring up front

    I was thinking the exact same thing! Awesome for riding over logs etc.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng
    Holy crap! That is sick!!! I need one.

    Yea, but I guarantee you it's waaay expensive.

    I've read some people bring up the weight issue, thinking it's going to heavy and not good for xc or even trailbike / am bikes. Does anyone know the weight of the system?

  65. #65
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    I would venture to guess that it is not very heavy, 22 tooth chain ring small bash and the planetary unit is so small it couldn't weigh much.

    Even if it is a touch heavier than the old school, it is located in the most unnoticeable location on the bike.

  66. #66
    i like rocks
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    i'd be interested in a unit like that, but they should make the shifter optional. shifter if you want to have quick access on the bar, or a small switch located on the unit itself for those who would occasionally need the gear for fire road grinding, but never when ripping the downs, while saving the trouble of a shifter n cable.
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  67. #67
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    I wonder how much energy it's going to be taking.

    Internally geared systems tend to lose some efficiency. I'm guessing 1-3%.

  68. #68
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    1-3% is practicly nothing! I would gladly lose that for the option to not have to pedal while shifting
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  69. #69
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    It's going to be interesting to see how this one works in practise. It's a well proven concept and worked flawlessly on Sunbeam bikes 100 years ago - they had an oilbath chaincase.

    Keep it light enough and I'm sure we'll see them getting snuck onto single speed bikes.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168



    Cool pics. Still trying to wrap my head around the internal shot... Definatly a little chunkier than I imagined.
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  72. #72
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    Looks like the silver cranks is the "FR" model and the black cranks the "AM" model?

  73. #73
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    Just to get this straight.
    Hammerschmidt gives you two gear in front (say 32 and 22) and can be fitted to any bike with ISCG05?
    Am I correct here?

  74. #74
    i like rocks
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    dammit, no! not isis drive!
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by euroford
    dammit, no! not isis drive!
    It depends entirely on how good Truvativ isis BB’s are, I mean Race Face X-type BB’s are rubbish but their isis BB’s last for ages.

    Kevin G, if you look next to where is says Truvativ on the cranks there is a little FR or AM to tell you.

  76. #76
    moaaar shimz
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    Bummer about the Howitzer BB..... I'll stick to my Hone cranks thank you.

  77. #77
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    Great looking product, this. Gives plenty of advantages alright...clearance....no compromise pivot placement.....no chainguide needed....but why put the shifter cable in the one spot where it could theoretically still be hit by protruding rocks and the like? Same thing but on top of the device would have seemed better....(there is probably a reason...).

    And I have a hard time with how the bikes look with that small chainring.....but we'll get used to it I'm sure.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman2058
    no chainguide needed
    That's what I thought, so why is there one on the Diamondback Goat?


  79. #79
    moaaar shimz
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    Chain tensioner is a good addition: more chain tension, less skipping and silent

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  81. #81
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    I know its early, but, Price? anyone.

  82. #82
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    its all in the article, prices and info
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  83. #83
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    I would guess $250-$300... it does require an iscg 05 so that will limit it's sale potential... I wonder if you will be able to use an adapter?
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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mwehahaha
    I would guess $250-$300... it does require an iscg 05 so that will limit it's sale potential... I wonder if you will be able to use an adapter?
    Try $750-$800

    Check out that NSMB link posted earlier.
    Bike good, work bad.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mwehahaha
    I would guess $250-$300... it does require an iscg 05 so that will limit it's sale potential... I wonder if you will be able to use an adapter?
    article says its a premium product lilkely to be in the range of 750 - $800

    sheesh can no one click a link and read

    I thought the petrol sniffing had stopped hence the fuel price drop, maybe not still a ways to go

    SRAM / Truvativ is pitching HammerSchmidt as a premium product, so it ain't gonna be cheap. Retail pricing will be in the neighbourhood of $750 to $800 for the crankset, bottom bracket and shifter.
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  86. #86
    moaaar shimz
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    Bah, you just need to get a good bike shop buddy who won't charge 400 dollars of commission....

  87. #87
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    $800 and it uses a Howitzer BB? What a joke. That is the heaviest BB in the industry and one of the worst crank interfaces as well.

    I will by normal cranks thank you..

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya
    Bah, you just need to get a good bike shop buddy who won't charge 400 dollars of commission....
    Im in the wrong business

    That was for everything thing though including shifter, add up a standard crankset, bash ring chains guide, X0 or X9 shifter and well its getting not too far away under normal retail pricing


    D9 did you read the article there's too flavors one based on Am with a styl type crankset

    HammerSchmidt uses a proprietary bottom bracket, with a beefier version for freeride and a lighter version for AM
    Do you guys read or are you just in it for e-bashing, just asking, im not on either side I like to make my own mind up once Ive tried something or at least seen it usually or there's been enough people test it!

    But some of you guys are making statements with out obviously reading the INFO!

    READ then bash
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  89. #89
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    Shimano Hone M601 (SLX now) + Shimano XT FR + Blackspire Stinger <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< (much less) than 800. Do I shift between the front rings often? No... once when I begin to climb and once or twice during decent.

    It's like a gravity dropper.... people will find it very useful while others not so much.

    Cool innovation though!

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Im in the wrong business

    That was for everything thing though including shifter, add up a standard crankset, bash ring chains guide, X0 or X9 shifter and well its getting not too far away under normal retail pricing


    D9 did you read the article there's too flavors one based on Am with a styl type crankset



    Do you guys read or are you just in it for e-bashing, just asking, im not on either side I like to make my own mind up once Ive tried something or at least seen it usually or there's been enough people test it!

    But some of you guys are making statements with out obviously reading the INFO!

    READ then bash
    Yeah I read the f-in article. And every pic of a BB is a Howitzer. "Based on the legendary Howitzer BB" ? The only thing legendary is how much the Howitzer sucks balls. $800 is a lot to pay for a front shifting system that you use like 4 times a ride.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clutchman83
    Try $750-$800

    Check out that NSMB link posted earlier.
    Dang, the Rohloff suddenly looks cheap.
    Check my Site

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demo-9
    Yeah I read the f-in article. And every pic of a BB is a Howitzer. "Based on the legendary Howitzer BB" ? The only thing legendary is how much the Howitzer sucks balls. $800 is a lot to pay for a front shifting system that you use like 4 times a ride.
    But it clearly states a lighter version for Am and a heavier version for freeride!

    I'm not defending it or the price Ive never had a Howitzer either, Im an RF fan myself! and no ones holding a gun to your head to buy it, just state accurate info is all Im saying! I'm all for good bash, but least get the bash right, your reasons are fair and reasonable, I personally like the standard system, MTB is all about challenges for me, gearing is part of the skills to ride terrain, still Im open to new tech myself!

    Everything comes down in price over a few years so if it is good no doubt it will too! It clearly states its high end only! so they are not pretending it to be for everyone or those that may not see advantages or understand them!

    I don't like under the downtube cable routing not a biggie for some but in this age for me its a major, no excuse for it, maybe there is a reason with this though will wait and see some more!

    I don't see where it mentions Howitzer! mentions Holzfeller anyways its semantics, its interesting stuff and like tabaya said like the GD it will be horses for course no doubt it won't suit everyone its still cool though and the benefits are interesting and more accessiable than a Gbox or something similar for anything other than a DH bike! keep the info coming!
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  93. #93
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    Some bikes would ride like ass with that thing. I can tell you mine would, probably most VPP type four bars would. A lot of suspensions are optimized for the middle ring, that thing is basically a granny. Plus Truvativ cranks/bbs generally bring the suck.

    That said, the clearance looks amazing.

  94. #94
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    I wonder if they will work with Flypaper pedals........

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acme54321
    Some bikes would ride like ass with that thing. I can tell you mine would, probably most VPP type four bars would. A lot of suspensions are optimized for the middle ring, that thing is basically a granny. Plus Truvativ cranks/bbs generally bring the suck.

    That said, the clearance looks amazing.

    True that! clearance looks good, it would make a blindside look like it has allot of clearance. to bad I already swore never to ride ISIS drive ever again!!!! @#*&$ I hate isis
    OMG GUISE IT HAZ A AIER SHOCK WTF OO DUZ THAT?!?!?

  96. #96
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    . . . .
    Last edited by TLL; 08-12-2008 at 10:44 PM.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acme54321
    Some bikes would ride like ass with that thing. I can tell you mine would, probably most VPP type four bars would. A lot of suspensions are optimized for the middle ring, that thing is basically a granny. Plus Truvativ cranks/bbs generally bring the suck.
    Thats a really good point, I'd guess the bikes coming with it OEM have made adjustments to the frames maybe? If Herbold has been testing it for two years my guess is either it doesn't make a big enough difference or the companies have been warned to make adjustments in advance.

    KomodoRider - Dude I swore off external BB's after I went through three of them last season! ISIS is where it's at!
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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    But it clearly states a lighter version for Am and a heavier version for freeride!

    I'm not defending it or the price Ive never had a Howitzer either, Im an RF fan myself! and no ones holding a gun to your head to buy it, just state accurate info is all Im saying! I'm all for good bash, but least get the bash right

    I don't see where it mentions Howitzer!
    Did you read the magicmechanics.com site bra? Under Specs it says "Design based on the legendary Howitzer BB"

    What's with all the exclamation points dude?

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  100. #100
    Riiiiiide...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya
    Shimano Hone M601 (SLX now) + Shimano XT FR + Blackspire Stinger <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< (much less) than 800. Do I shift between the front rings often? No... once when I begin to climb and once or twice during decent.

    It's like a gravity dropper.... people will find it very useful while others not so much.

    Cool innovation though!

    Totally agree. Im on Hone drivetrain with an E13 DRS myself.. much cheaper and works great. Dont think this new product is gonna take over the dual ring market. But a nice addition it certainly is.

    And for that kind of money it really makes more sense to invest in a Rohloff setup instead. But to each his own. Actually i suppose if one were to do a build from scratch.. rohloff drivetrain vs. derailluer/hammerschmidt setup... the cost would be similar.

    Oh, and one more thing... this is probably just another step for the bike industry in delaying the inevitable.. fully sealed drivetrain like rohloff/nexus/millyard/etc. When those systems become the norm, SRAM and Shimano are gonna lose ALOT of money on drivetrain component sales.

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