Transition Blindside or Banshee Scythe- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    ... and if we just ... Transition Blindside or Banshee Scythe

    Hey all,

    I am going to buy a new bike very soon and have narrowed it down to these two; the Scythe with a Manitou Revox or the Blindside with a Fox DHX 4 coil
    The Scythe would be slightly more expensive. Which one should I choose and why? Which one is stronger, will last longer, and easier to maintain?

    The build would be:

    Rock Shox Totem Coil 1.5" fork
    Avid Elixir 5 brakes
    Azonic Outlaw wheels
    Maxxis Minion DH Front Tire - Dual Ply
    Maxxis Minion DH Rear Tire - Dual Ply
    SRAM X9 Rear Derailleur 9sp and X9 trigger shifter
    SRAM PG-950 cassette and PG-951 chain
    Truvativ Hussefelt Riser Bars
    FSA Big Fat Pig Headset
    Truvativ Holzfeller Stem
    RaceFace Ride DH 36t crank
    E Thirteen LS1 HT Chain Guide

    The total cost would be around $3800 canadian dollars

    Feel free to express your opinion and suggest changes to the build. Other frame suggestions welcome, my price limit is $1800 CAD

    Thanks in advance
    avoid Manitou forks at all costs... they have no souls...

  2. #2
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    As much as I like banshee bikes the scythe never wowed me. Go with the blindside or try something else. Maybe corsair maelstrom or the dhr from go-ride?

    As for the build. - Throw away that dhr and put on a high roller. 42a dhf front i hope. As for the bars - husselfelt isn't the widest bar. If you want cheap bars with proper angles - Funn or Azonic or just pay a little more and get a 780mm protaper or a 790mm syncros and cut them down after riding if you think they are wide.
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  3. #3
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    i was looking for a freeride bike and my top 3 came down to the scythe, the cove std, and the blindside. i ended up with the scythe and i couldn't be happier with it. i'm a better rider on this bike and keith/rob & the banshee guys have awesome customer service. how often do you get to ask the guy who engineers these bikes the questions and they answer back as soon as they can. it's perfect for the kind of riding i do and can handle anything i throw at it, 4 different shock positions for adjustment of head angle & bb height. i run it 7" downhill for slacker HA (65) and a lower BB (14.5" with a 8" fork) and i'm loving it's agility. i ran into jack fogelquist in santa cruz the other day when he was on his scythe too, and i got to watch him kill it right in front of me. he commented on how it can ride downhill so well yet still be so agile. you can pick the line you want to plow.

    i'm sure i'd be happy with a blindside too, but i think the scythe is a better looking bike on top of it all





    https://ustemuf.pinkbike.com/album/Scythe/

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbar
    Throw away that dhr and put on a high roller. 42a dhf front i hope. As for the bars - husselfelt isn't the widest bar. If you want cheap bars with proper angles - Funn or Azonic or just pay a little more and get a 780mm protaper or a 790mm syncros and cut them down after riding if you think they are wide.
    Its pretty dry where I ride and I dont think I'll need the extra grip that the 42a gives
    The high roller sound like a good idea, thanks

    I'm not too keen on wide bars, there are some pretty tight trails here and I've gone over the bars because my bars couldn't fit through the gap, so I think the hussefelts will be fine
    avoid Manitou forks at all costs... they have no souls...

  5. #5
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    There is a new transition blindside coming out in a month or two which looks promising except it has a tapered head tube so you couldn't run your 1.5 totem. so that would leave you with either finding a used blindside or see if someone happens to have a new one laying around in their shop cause im pretty sure transition is sold out.

    To add to it, I just built up a blindside and it is a crazy fun bike. It feels more like a lively freeride bike than a DH bike though. I rode it back to back with a 951 and the intense is definately more of a plow dh bike and the tranny was steeper and more agile.

    so with that said and i had to choose again i may go with the banshee. I bought one of the last blindsides not knowing they were trying to clear them out to get the new stuff in. the banshee has adjustable travel and geometry which is always fun to mess around with and it can change as you change. Also as mentioned the guys at banshee are awesome (the guys at tranny are too though). Keith at banshee has definately been awesome and answered many of my questions. I ride a spitfire right now and that bike is pure awesome.

    The last thing ill point out is geometry. If you like high BB bikes then get the banshee. If you are more into the DH feel with a low BB get the blindside. Thats going to be the biggest difference between the two and it is a pretty drastic difference.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by screwyouguysimgoinghome
    Its pretty dry where I ride and I dont think I'll need the extra grip that the 42a gives
    The high roller sound like a good idea, thanks

    I'm not too keen on wide bars, there are some pretty tight trails here and I've gone over the bars because my bars couldn't fit through the gap, so I think the hussefelts will be fine
    The narrow trail thing is not really true. Recently Ive been riding on a track that will be the next nat here and its crazy narrow in some places and I'm yet to clip a tree with my 760 bars. If you want faster stering just cut them to like 740-750 but 710 or less just feels really crap. Try something wider and cut if you don't feel like it's a good choice. Don't really know a lot of people who decided that wides are not for them.
    www.totalbikes.pl - Bike Camps not only in Poland

  7. #7
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    do you have a link to the release of the new blindside?
    avoid Manitou forks at all costs... they have no souls...

  8. #8
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    www.dropnzone.com

    They will have info about the new Blindside. I already pre-ordered one.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by climbingbubba

    The last thing ill point out is geometry. If you like high BB bikes then get the banshee. If you are more into the DH feel with a low BB get the blindside. Thats going to be the biggest difference between the two and it is a pretty drastic difference.
    you can get the same BB height on the scythe by using a 8.5x2.5 shock to change rear travel.

    ... or even just by running a Totem (7" fork) up front, you can change shock linkage to adjust to the same height as the blindside (14.2") is.. ultimate wheel travel is reduced but the leverage ratio lowers, giving you a more active shock/suspension/bike.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MachU
    www.dropnzone.com

    They will have info about the new Blindside. I already pre-ordered one.
    thanks

    EDIT: taken from dropnzone: "Dedicated 135mm x 10mm dropouts - no more confusing options"

    scythe it is
    avoid Manitou forks at all costs... they have no souls...

  11. #11
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    Anyone know the leverage ration on the Scythe?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo302
    Anyone know the leverage ration on the Scythe?
    well it's progressive, keith is the man that would know this so he can chime in if i'm wrong but i believe this is the leverage ratio & reasoning:

    Turner 4 Bar Suspension

    * Incredibly stiff, strong, low maintence design to take punishment
    * Great pedaling performance due to main pivot location inline with chainline
    * Tuned leverage ratio to be progressive through the travel


    The Turner 4bar design also known as a Fauxbar is characterised by a rear axle pivoting around a main swingarm pivot, where the shock is activated by walking beams. This style of suspension is not the same as a single pivot because the Turner 4bar lets you dial in the leverage ratio at each point in the travel.

    Leverage ratio is most simply described as: if rear axle moves 3 cm shock stroke will move 1cmť. With the walking beam or other 4bar designs including FSRs, VPPs etc. you calculate the stroke vs. the rear axle at each point through the stroke because the ratio changes. For our designs we have a descending leverage ratio that starts out at around 3:1 but then ends up closer to 2:1 at bottom out.

    With higher leverage at the start it means there is more leverage over the shock and it is easier to move the back wheel. What this translates into is small bump compliance. As the rear wheel goes through its travel it becomes harder to compress the shock [progressivity]. Consider the shock, where coils and large volume air have a linear rate, with a progressive frame and a linear shock you end up with slight progressivity when you put them together. This means when
    you do a drop it will ramp up nicely making it harder to bottom out.

    Stiffness is acheived by having no pivots between the main pivot and the rear axle. This means 2 things: Pedaling efficiency is good because you have the power going directly into the rear wheel without having a pivot robbing some of that power. The second thing is the backend is stiffer letting your back wheel track better because the back end deflect less along the horizontal plane when it hits a bump.

    Why not use the VF4B? Simply the Scythe will see much more abuse and will be taking large drops. The VF4B has an anti-sag component which causes the backend to firm up with some intial chain growth [platform]. Conversely though doing a large drop creates pedal kickback and this is something you don't want when landing a huge drop. The VF4B bikes just aren't required to take the abuse or drops so that's why a virtual pivot style works so great for them.Turner 4 Bar Suspension

    * Incredibly stiff, strong, low maintence design to take punishment
    * Great pedaling performance due to main pivot location inline with chainline
    * Tuned leverage ratio to be progressive through the travel

  13. #13
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    Sorry to resurrect an old thread here, but I have a Scythe question because I’m thinking of picking up the frame used. Is there any real difference between the old versions with the different looking link? Cause I noticed that on the older frames the rear of the shock is attached to a link that has triangular holes and is sort of boomerang shaped, while the newer ones use a slender link without holes.

    Also, ustemuf, I saw you’re selling a green scythe on PB. You had a white one too? How many Scythes have you gone through, haha.

    If you’re still choosing between the Scythe and Blindside, you should note that the old Blindside has a curved seattube and won’t take a long post, while the new one has a straight one. If you’re planning to put a front derailleur on the bike and use a long seat post to pedal up, an uninterrupted sea tube would be nice. The Scythe has one.

    I love Transition, but choosing between the two I’d go with a Scythe soley because of the 150x12mm rear, 83mm BB, and 1.5 headtube (the new Blindside is tapered). When you consider that the frame also has adjustable travel/geo, it’s hard to argue for the Blindside.

  14. #14
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    the scythe is actually a 68mm BB, the most significant difference between the old and revised frame is that the new one has a reinforcement at the BB along the downtube. Ride wise, they are identical.

    I have an 09 (pre-revision) and love it.
    Last edited by Rachid; 12-04-2011 at 10:30 PM.

  15. #15
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    My 2008 scythe bottom bracket is 68. Also if your head angle is to steep or want a lower bottom bracket put a set of angel reducer cups. I'm using a set of -2deg cups.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by screwyouguysimgoinghome View Post
    thanks

    EDIT: taken from dropnzone: "Dedicated 135mm x 10mm dropouts - no more confusing options"

    scythe it is

    that is the 2011, the 2012 is a bit different. I like both , but some of the sales going on right now make it a tough choice.


    180mm (7") / 190mm (7.5") Adjustable Rear Wheel Travel
    REAR SHOCK: 8.75" x 2.75" (Forward Pin 22.2mm x 8mm, Rear Pin 22.2mm x 8mm)
    FRAME MATERIAL: 6061 Custom Formed Heat Treated Aluminum
    SIZES: Small, Medium, Large
    COLORS: Green, Black, Raw
    FRAME WEIGHT: 10.1 lbs / 4.5 kg (Medium Frame With Rear Shock)
    COMPLETE WEIGHT: 35.4 lbs / 16.1 kg (Medium Bike)
    WARRANTY: 2 year defect warranty, lifetime crash replacement.
    SEATPOST/CLAMP: 31.6mm Seatpost/34.9mm Clamp
    HEADTUBE: Tapered 1.5" / 1-1/8" (1.5" Lower Cup 49.6mm ID / 1-1/8" Upper Cup 44mm ID)
    BOTTOM BRACKET: 73mm shell x 51mm chainline
    REAR DROPOUT: 142mm x 12mm (Shimano e-thru) + 135mm x 10mm option
    FRONT DERAILLEUR: Shimano HDM (High Direct Mount) Top Pull
    CHAINGUIDE: ISCG 05
    The Dropnzone
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  17. #17
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachid View Post
    the scythe is actually a 68mm BB, the most significant difference between the old and revised frame is that the new one has a reinforcement at the BB along the downtube. Ride wise, they are identical.

    I have an 09 (pre-revision) and love it.
    RE: "...reinforcement at the BB along the downtube..."
    So, 2011 Scythe frame would have this stronger design?

    I plan on mine for XC trail, FR jumping, and local DH racing, ...to replace a '03 Bullit.
    “Everyday is a good day,” from the Blue Cliff Records, Yun-men (864-949 AD).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailNut View Post
    RE: "...reinforcement at the BB along the downtube..."
    So, 2011 Scythe frame would have this stronger design?

    I plan on mine for XC trail and FR jumping, to replace a '03 Bullit.
    You can get far better bikes if you want to have a XC to FR build.

    I'd say that the Scythe would be the heavy/overkill end of the spectrum.

    You might want to consider the Rune or the Spitfire if you're going to ride xc on the bike if you want to stay with Banshee. Alternatively, a Specialized Enduro with a coil shock, or a Rocky Mountain Slayer would do the job quite well.

    Since I last posted, I sold my Scythe and bought two bikes, a Banshee Spitfire V2 (which does a great job at jumping and XC riding, even raced a local enduro on it), and a Kona Carbon Operator for bike park riding and DH.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachid View Post
    You can get far better bikes if you want to have a XC to FR build.

    I'd say that the Scythe would be the heavy/overkill end of the spectrum.

    You might want to consider the Rune or the Spitfire if you're going to ride xc on the bike if you want to stay with Banshee. Alternatively, a Specialized Enduro with a coil shock, or a Rocky Mountain Slayer would do the job quite well.

    Since I last posted, I sold my Scythe and bought two bikes, a Banshee Spitfire V2 (which does a great job at jumping and XC riding, even raced a local enduro on it), and a Kona Carbon Operator for bike park riding and DH.
    I have a trail/XC race-specific MTB and want only one more MTB, for the gravity/descend role that will include DH racing in NorCal. I enjoy climbing our canyons, rarely resorting to pushing, on my Boxxer DC fork/S.C. Bullit, but want more rear travel, just for the experience. My current frame, Bullit, needs to be scrapped, due to it's softened rear triangle.

    My budget for a replacement frame's under $1000.
    “Everyday is a good day,” from the Blue Cliff Records, Yun-men (864-949 AD).

  21. #21
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    In that case, you'll be set with the Scythe.

    They are strong and you want a 2011+ if you're going to race. You can also fit an air shock down the road when budget permits, like the Vivid air or the CCDB.

    As somebody else mentioned you might want to consider an angle adjusting headset as well to slacken the bike out and drop the BB.

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