Ti springs, why???- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Ti springs, why???

    Well I just put a Ti spring on my DHX, and shaved about 150 grams off my bike.
    But, I spent a lot of money!!
    So, why Ti springs? Other than saving some weight.
    Gimme more reasons, so that I could sleep well this week.
    Ride fast, yet ride smart!

  2. #2
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    some say plusher then steel....but mostly it is just the weight savings
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  3. #3
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    Ti springs look cooler...

    Seriously, one arguement is lifespan. Steel fatigues over time where Ti doesn't. Plus, most Ti springs are closer to their stated rating than steel springs.
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  4. #4
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    ummmmm........Saves grams, bling, more plush, last longer, makes you faster, etc etc etc

  5. #5
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    Not trying to be an ass, but you should probably know the pro's and con's of any upgrade before you buy it.

  6. #6
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    bah-linnng

    oh, and everyone knows Ti makes you like 17% faster

    ...
    i have a steel spring

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover Nick
    Not trying to be an ass, but you should probably know the pro's and con's of any upgrade before you buy it.
    exactly, no research before purchase?

  8. #8
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    Ti spring might be my very last upgrade that is if I have money to burn. I almost got one for a cheap $60 from a friend but I was slightly longer that what my DHX-Coil could accept. Honestly, I wouldn't pay more than $70 for a Ti spring. I'd rather spend that money on a lighter wheelset.
    DH:Mountain Cycle Shockwave 9.5 w/ 888R
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  9. #9
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    I could not have said it any better myself

    Quote Originally Posted by mkrobert81
    ummmmm........Saves grams, bling, more plush, last longer, makes you faster, etc etc etc

    And yes, you could get a lighter wheelset, but your Ti spring wont blow up if you case a jump, where you could destroy a rear wheel on any given mistake when going big.

    Just my 2 cents......
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  10. #10
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    I threw a Ti spring on my DHX, and holy crap it's way more plush. Feels FANTASTIC.

    Plus, it's silver, so it matches my bike.
    Meh.

  11. #11
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    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by blender
    oh, and everyone knows Ti makes you like 17% faster
    17% and im still slow compared to alot of people lmao
    Purple Popcorn

  13. #13
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    I ussually shiiit before a ride, 150-454 grams savings.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmarkos
    I ussually shiiit before a ride, 150-454 grams savings.
    Ick. You weigh your poo?
    ~ Downride and Freehill, nothing else ~

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntled
    Ick. You weigh your poo?

    yeah, he weighs his poo. you should do it too. makes your balance at least 25% better . It's all the rage at bike parks.

  16. #16
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    It's definitely more plush but it's more the suppleness that I notice. It is exponentially more supple. It's smoother over those small stutter bumps and uses the first half of the stroke better without sacrificing anything in the end stroke.

  17. #17
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    Yeah...

    Well, I sh!t Ti poo so that make me 18% faster. Only problem is Ti poo is a little flexxy

    "At that point man, your just riding your bike."


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  18. #18
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    All the babes at the end of your DH run will want to sleep with you once they see you have a Ti spring.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    All the babes at the end of your DH run will want to sleep with you once they see you have a Ti spring.
    Best answer so far.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookie freeride
    Well, I sh!t Ti poo so that make me 18% faster. Only problem is Ti poo is a little flexxy

    I knew it was flexy, thanks for confirming my suspicions!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover Nick
    Not trying to be an ass, but you should probably know the pro's and con's of any upgrade before you buy it.
    Actuall I did know the main pro of purchasing a Ti spring.
    No con's found.
    I just thought maybe there's something I don't know.
    Ride fast, yet ride smart!

  22. #22
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    I don't buy that it is "plusher" or whatever. Given two of the same spring rates, it doesn't matter whether it's steel or ti, they should both compress exactly the same.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    I don't buy that it is "plusher" or whatever. Given two of the same spring rates, it doesn't matter whether it's steel or ti, they should both compress exactly the same.


    At least someone has a clue.

    Ti spring = weight savings W/O loss of durability (about the only part that has these attributes). There absolutely no difference in riding characteristics what so ever with varying spring materials.

  24. #24
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    Jim311 and davep you both couldn't be more wrong. read rkj's links in his post and maybe you'll understand the difference betwen Ti and steel in spring usage. until then you should probably stop spouting off at the mouth.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclekittykiller
    Jim311 and davep you both couldn't be more wrong. read rkj's links in his post and maybe you'll understand the difference betwen Ti and steel in spring usage. until then you should probably stop spouting off at the mouth.
    Uh I usually like to stay out of stupid arguements like this BUT being an engineer type myself I can't resist pointing out lameness.

    Those links were to a company that SELLS Ti spring! Pretty unbiased start,eh?

    Secondly, their only explanation of advantage is the weight reduction. ti springs aren't magically "plusher" for the same spring rate.


    Sure it does reduce the unsprung mass, but that reduction is happening in a highly leveraged area, so the weight only has ~1/3 of the effect it would have if it was on the wheel itself. Even then the spring isn't moving the entire stroike distance either. It's being compressed into itself. You could take a steel coil shock like the DHX and place it into the frame so the resivour sits on the rear swing arm side of the linkage. Ride it that way and get used to it. Then try flipping it the other way around so the resivoir is no longer unsprung. If you can't feel the difference in plushness from unsprung weight doing that, then not likely from a Ti spring either.

  26. #26
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    Not only does it make you bike lighter, it does the same for your wallet

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoPawn
    Those links were to a company that SELLS Ti spring! Pretty unbiased start,eh?

    Secondly, their only explanation of advantage is the weight reduction. ti springs aren't magically "plusher" for the same spring rate.
    Your not going to help foxracing sleep any better with comments like that
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclekittykiller
    Jim311 and davep you both couldn't be more wrong. read rkj's links in his post and maybe you'll understand the difference betwen Ti and steel in spring usage. until then you should probably stop spouting off at the mouth.
    I have an idea for you smart guy....spend some time in a university engineering program. OR material science program and then come back when you have ANY idea what you are talking about. When you can describe a simple idea like critical damping what effects an oscillating system, and the mathematics describing it, I will listen to you.......

    A MTB does not have the frequency of movement nor the sprung/unsprung mass/inertia ratio to take advantage of the differences in material properties in the way you claim. The system is also damped....ANY difference in the reaction speed of a ti spring (if it was of a magnitude that a person could feel, wheich it is not) would be a DETRIMENT.
    For a proper ride, you would need to increase/modify the shock damping curve to counteract the difference the ti would make. If any chasis suspension design was simply after the 'fastest reacting system'.......do you thing there would be dampers in the system? WHen is the last time you saw a MTB/moto/car with no damper?????

    Ti springs offer MORE longevity and durability at a REDUCTION in weight......there are almost no other MTB parts that can offer that combination. That is why people buy them and why (for some...I own several) they are worth the $$.

  29. #29
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    I **** magical elves who manufacture Ti springs for me when I sleep.


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  30. #30
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    I'm no engineer but I've switched back and forth between a Ti spring and a steel spring on the same shock on the same bike several times for this very reason and, despite my inability to scientifically explain why, it CLEARLY feels different. Even with slightly less sag on the Ti spring it is definitely more sensitive to stutter bumps.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde
    I've switched back and forth between a Ti spring and a steel spring on the same shock on the same bike several times for this very reason and, despite my inability to scientifically explain why, it CLEARLY feels different. Even with slightly less sag on the Ti spring it is definitely more sensitive to stutter bumps.
    X2
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep
    At least someone has a clue.

    Ti spring = weight savings W/O loss of durability (about the only part that has these attributes). There absolutely no difference in riding characteristics what so ever with varying spring materials.

    Not entirely true...but I like how you pointed out that nobody has a clue of what they are saying sometimes..

    Fact: wether its Ti or steel given the same spring rate, none will be plusher...I mean come on just think about it for a second its not rocket science!!!! same spring rate = equal force to "compress" the shaft

    BUT...

    Titanium is more responsive therefore IT does give you a slightly different feel but its very subtle. Most people cant even tell the difference between 2 different tires so most people WONT notice the difference...Im no engineer maybe it has more to do with the fact that the spring weight less Im not sure but it does feel different.

    Seeing that you are still debating if it was a good investment kinda means it maybe wasnt you're best move..sorry but if you cant tell the difference why have you bought the spring?

  33. #33
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    Unfortunately, it's true. People spend all that extra money for the look.

  34. #34
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    Whoa...

    This thread went from making me laugh to making my head hurt.

    I barely made it through high school. I dont know what those guys are talking about. But it doest matter...my Ti spring makes me 17% smarter .
    "At that point man, your just riding your bike."


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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep
    I have an idea for you smart guy....spend some time in a university engineering program. OR material science program and then come back when you have ANY idea what you are talking about. When you can describe a simple idea like critical damping what effects an oscillating system, and the mathematics describing it, I will listen to you.......

    A MTB does not have the frequency of movement nor the sprung/unsprung mass/inertia ratio to take advantage of the differences in material properties in the way you claim. The system is also damped....ANY difference in the reaction speed of a ti spring (if it was of a magnitude that a person could feel, wheich it is not) would be a DETRIMENT.
    For a proper ride, you would need to increase/modify the shock damping curve to counteract the difference the ti would make. If any chasis suspension design was simply after the 'fastest reacting system'.......do you thing there would be dampers in the system? WHen is the last time you saw a MTB/moto/car with no damper?????

    Ti springs offer MORE longevity and durability at a REDUCTION in weight......there are almost no other MTB parts that can offer that combination. That is why people buy them and why (for some...I own several) they are worth the $$.
    Whoa, them there's a lot of big words bro, you MUST be right. Just curious, ya know since your a big bad engineer and all, can I see some of these mathematics describing the "critical damping what effects an oscillating system"? I mean, spell it out for me dude. You can't just expect me to take your word for it can you? Let's see some charts and graphs and schit.
    I find it funny that after all your expert analysis of how a Ti spring can't make a bit of difference in ride quality, there's still a ton of people out there who CAN feel the difference, including myself. Maybe you should work on your riding skills a little and someday you could get there too!
    By the way, since you brought it up, I HAVE spent a little time in a "university engineering program", enough time to earn a degree actually. But that doesn't make my thoughts indisputable as you clearly feel yours are.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclekittykiller
    I find it funny that after all your expert analysis of how a Ti spring can't make a bit of difference in ride quality, there's still a ton of people out there who CAN feel the difference, including myself.
    On a somewhat related note, consider the placebo effect. In clinical studies, many people report that their medical ailments are alleviated by taking fake pills.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  37. #37
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    I think the difference in "feel" lies within the fact that even though 2 springs may be labeled at 500 pound springs, they might not both offer 500 pound spring rates. One may be 485 pounds in actuality, and the other may be 505 pounds. Unless you have tested the two springs to determine how much force it takes to compress it SCIENTIFICALLY then you have zero basis for a comparison. Only once you get two springs which are IDENTICAL in that regard can you compare the feel and ride of both. Otherwise, it might not be the properties of the materials, but the force that the spring is exerting in either case that makes the difference in feel in the ride. Until you do that, you won't be able to tell whether it's the material properties the spring is made of, or the difference in spring rate that is making the difference in feel. Plus, I have a feeling that many people who own these ti springs want some sort of justification for having potentially spent hundreds on a part that offers little more than weight savings.

  38. #38
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    This thread sounds like the debate of Ti hardtails VS. steel ones. Most people who have spent time on a Ti bike notice the benefits of the material over steel. Better ride characteristics, weight, compliance, ect.
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  39. #39
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    Well for what it's worth, chromo steel has an E value of 178 - 234 GPa (25800 - 33900 ksi) and Ti has an E value of ~116 GPa (16800 ksi). I'm sure this might mean something to someone out there as I have no idea what an E value is.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    even though 2 springs may be labeled at 500 pound springs, they might not both offer 500 pound spring rates. One may be 485 pounds in actuality, and the other may be 505 pounds.
    It's possible, but if the actual spring rate is normally distributed around the labeled value, there would be cases where your fancy new Ti spring would have a higher spring rate than the steel one you replaced, which could give a less plush ride... right?

    The deviations may or may not be large enough to be a factor.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOFFMAN223
    Well for what it's worth, chromo steel has an E value of 178 - 234 GPa (25800 - 33900 ksi) and Ti has an E value of ~116 GPa (16800 ksi). I'm sure this might mean something to someone out there as I have no idea what an E value is.
    E is a modulus of elasticity. Most simply put - how "stiff" or "flexy" a material is.

    Because the E value differs between materials, the Ti vs. Steel spring has a very different appearance, to create a spring with the same spring rate. Ti springs have thicker coils that are more "spaced out."
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    E is a modulus of elasticity. Most simply put - how "stiff" or "flexy" a material is.

    Because the E value differs between materials, the Ti vs. Steel spring has a very different appearance, to create a spring with the same spring rate. Ti springs have thicker coils that are more "spaced out."
    Hey, good answer. I was just feeling a little antagonistic towards this thread and figured I would put up a BS post just out of spite. Clearly you know something about material science, so that satisfied my curiosity about the reliability of some of these posts, but I'm not so sure about some of the others around here.

    Bottom line, 500 lbs should be 500 lbs. Of course they will feel and ride different due to the difference in weight between the two springs. As far as the performance of the different materials, they are engineered and constructed to react similarly in the same situations.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Cliffy
    Ti springs look cooler...

    Seriously, one arguement is lifespan. Steel fatigues over time where Ti doesn't. Plus, most Ti springs are closer to their stated rating than steel springs.
    I talked to Push on the phone a little while back and they said one of the main problems with Ti springs is the amount of variance for a stated rating compared to steel. Maybe why some of you guys think the TI Spring is plusher is because it does not actually meet its actual spec for rating. Try a lighter Steel spring......... it will feel plusher too

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    It's possible, but if the actual spring rate is normally distributed around the labeled value, there would be cases where your fancy new Ti spring would have a higher spring rate than the steel one you replaced, which could give a less plush ride... right?

    The deviations may or may not be large enough to be a factor.

    It's possible that it could go either way, I wasn't implying that it wasn't. I was merely saying that unless you have measured the exact spring rate of both of the springs you are comparing, you can't say whether it's the material of the spring that makes the difference or the spring rate. It could vary in both directions.


    In other words, there's no scientific basis for any of these "plush" claims. For all we know it could be a placebo affect. That is, unless the poster has measured the rate of both springs.

  45. #45
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    my Ti spring has a higher S(ex) value than my steel spring... meaning my Ti spring bling gets me laid more, 17% more to be exact.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy
    my Ti spring has a higher S(ex) value than my steel spring... meaning my Ti spring bling gets me laid more, 17% more to be exact.
    Nice. Make sure you use protection though.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    Nice. Make sure you use protection though.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy
    my Ti spring has a higher S(ex) value than my steel spring... meaning my Ti spring bling gets me laid more, 17% more to be exact.
    great answer! do you have any scientific proof to back that up?

    i just think its funny how some people on these forums are so arrogant about their perceived intelligence level because they are an "engineer" but are actually quite ignorant to common logic. I know plenty of engineers and alot of them are some of the dumbest people i know when it comes to living normal everyday life. They just can't think past numbers and formulas.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclekittykiller
    great answer! do you have any scientific proof to back that up?
    I do... but it *may* not *quite* be suitable for work viewing

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclekittykiller
    great answer! do you have any scientific proof to back that up?

    i just think its funny how some people on these forums are so arrogant about their perceived intelligence level because they are an "engineer" but are actually quite ignorant to common logic. I know plenty of engineers and alot of them are some of the dumbest people i know when it comes to living normal everyday life. They just can't think past numbers and formulas.

    Troll troll troll your boat

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    Troll troll troll your boat
    you call it trolling, I call it like it see it. tomato-tomado

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    On a somewhat related note, consider the placebo effect. In clinical studies, many people report that their medical ailments are alleviated by taking fake pills.
    I have considered the placebo effect and I can assure you any idiot can feel the OBVIOUS difference in ride quality.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclekittykiller
    can I see some of these mathematics describing the "critical damping what effects an oscillating system"?
    Go to www.optimumg.com, then go to Tech Tips on bottom left of the screen and read the "Spring & Damper" series. Sorry, the page is all frames, other wise I would have put a direct link.

  54. #54
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    To answer a few more things:

    Ti fames and steel frames are a completely different deal. No one here is arguing that there is not a material difference (Tensile strength, E, density, and natural frequency) between ti and steel. What most are missing, is that a spring is a very small part of a large suspension system. Moreover, that entire system is DAMPED....no single suspension system is designed to allow the system to oscillate at its higest frequency...and THAT is the reason that a frame (single, rigid, undamped) will exibit a perceivable ride difference while a spring in a system (very small portion of overall mass and significant damping) will not.

    The ti spring by itself can oscillate at a higher frequency that steel (can return to its natural state faster) but again, this is a moot point in a suspension system where damping is present.

    AS mentioned by others, steel springs in the MTB biz have a large tolerance. What this means is that your Fox steel 500 lb spring will be somewhere between 450 and 550 (yes 10% variation). Ti springs have much tighter tollerances.

    What people are feeling is a difference in spring rate, not a difference in material. There are some small differences/variations in the first 'dead' coils fram spring to spring. Because most ti springs can be would to a higher stress level, they have fewer coils at steeper pitch. The change in coil pitch at the ends of a ti spring can cause a very slight 'non-linear' region....but it is again something that is minimal, and not a factor of the material itself. The way a spring is terminated varies from spring to spring, mfg to mfg, and will always introduce a small are of 'non-linear' spring force.

    Just so we are on the same page, I have been building, riding, and racing bikes of all types for over 25 years. I do have the 'book knowledge' to understand the differences in the springs, but I also have a lot of 'real world' knowledge and experience in this field. I also happen to live where every single USA ti mtb spring is made. I know several people in the industry (ti mtb spring industry) and have had many conversations regarding my 'book knowledge' and my experience versus what the industry itself does and sees (in applications from aerospace to moto to automobiles)....and the reasons they make ti springs....and what the actual benefits are.

    I do own several ti springs and have ridden them on several bikes with differing dampers and supension designs, and feel thay are worth the $$ for the loss of weight without the loss of any durability, I just think when spending this kind of $$, people should know what to expect.

    For all you who insist that your ti springs ride 'better', I would suggest you investigate the term 'perceived value'.
    Last edited by davep; 08-08-2008 at 06:07 PM.

  55. #55
    aka Jesse Palmer
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep
    The truth

  56. #56
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    +1 for davep, from a mechanical engineer with experience in suspension design and racecar engineering.

    Also, if you get a Ti spring, and it feels softer than your steel spring of the same stiffness rating, there's a real easy way to check how close they really are in spring rate:

    1. Measure the free length accurately with calipers
    2. Set the spring on a flat rigid surface with a load on top (as heavy as possible without causing something stupid to happen, I would shoot for at least 50lbs to get an accurate spring rate calculation)
    3. Measure the length of the spring, loaded.
    4. Spring rate = weight of load placed on top of spring in pounds/(free length - loaded length in inches)

    The accuracy of your calculated spring rate depends on how accurate your length and load measurements are, so keep that in mind.

    If you have a hydraulic press, you can use a scale under the spring and compress the spring with the press also. Just make sure the spring doesn't get shot out at you. This would work well if you have access to race scales for a racecar or kart.

  57. #57
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    well, debate all you wish... but ti springs seam to be advantageous for basically all reasons, weight, performance, durability and bling, except cost. frankly, some of us don't give a crap, we lay our wallets down if we perceive an advantage. and yes, my sex life has improved since buying my ti spring.
    Tim M Hovey

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  58. #58
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    you guys "bling your bike" to get laid? by what, a mountain goat? a cross dresser? a dude? you are aware that theres all of 5-6 girls who actually care about mountain biking, and probably only 1-2 of them care about ti springs.

    anyway, what davep said.

  59. #59
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    >>AS mentioned by others, steel springs in the MTB biz have a large tolerance. What this means is that your Fox steel 500 lb spring will be somewhere between 450 and 550 (yes 10% variation). Ti springs have much tighter tollerances.<<

    Couldn't be further from the truth! Do you have any idea of the scope of the problems RCS has dealt with when making Ti mtb springs??? They stopped production for a while because their QC was so far outta whack with most of their springs coming in well under the rated value (uhhhm, can you say "plusher", LMAO!!!). And if you don't believe it, call up Darren at PUSH and ask him how many were coming in under-rated. It was so bad a year ago that they even considered getting into the market. Unfortunately the Ti metal supply is getting screwed over thanks to China.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Last edited by Gman086; 08-09-2008 at 12:20 PM.
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  60. #60
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    All the babes at the end of your DH run will want to sleep with you once they see you have a Ti spring.
    and then they will find Ti so sick that they ask for a Ti ring instead of platinum, making it much cheaper on us guys, and giving usa more money for sick stuff on our bikes.
    HARDTAIL PRIDE- 09 Kona Five-0

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    (uhhhm, can you say "plusher" over small bumps, LMAO!!!).

    Explain this to me. I run the same preload on my Ti spring then the steel spring before it and I have a tiny bit less sag. So the Ti spring is a higher rate then the steel spring. It is still OBVIOUSLY more supple over small bumps despite the HIGHER spring rate.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde
    Explain this to me. I run the same preload on my Ti spring then the steel spring before it and I have a tiny bit less sag. So the Ti spring is a higher rate then the steel spring. It is still OBVIOUSLY more supple over small bumps despite the HIGHER spring rate.
    The damping characteristics change to more supple towards the beginning of the shock stroke. With your steel spring you're more in the middle of the damping curve under sag and the ride won't be quite as supple (I changed my original post to reflect not just small hits). A lot of Ti springs were coming in at higher initial spring rates and lower final rates which works nice and plush across the board for some but most found them to bottom too easily (can you say "cheap Ti spring for sale on e-bay?"). Check yours against your steel spring and report here. Any more questions?
    Last edited by Gman086; 08-09-2008 at 12:28 PM.
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djponee
    and then they will find Ti so sick that they ask for a Ti ring instead of platinum, making it much cheaper on us guys, and giving usa more money for sick stuff on our bikes.
    Doesn't always work that way. My wife is sporting an $8K+ platinum and I ended up with a $400 Ti and white gold ring. But then again, I have a steel spring on my Fox.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    The damping characteristics change to more supple towards the beginning of the shock stroke. With your steel spring you're more in the middle of the damping curve under sag and the ride won't be quite as supple (I changed my original post to reflect not just small hits). A lot of Ti springs were coming in at higher initial spring rates and lower final rates which works nice and plush across the board for some but most found them to bottom too easily (can you say "cheap Ti spring for sale on e-bay?"). Check yours against your steel spring and report here. Any more questions?

    Nice theory but...... I'm on a 7Point with a VERY linear custom tuned DHX. Even with the exact same sag there is a clear difference.

  65. #65
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    Plush

    When I bought mine it was for the bling factor and the weight. Once I put it on, I immediately thought my bike felt lighter (of course). After a couple long rides with some pedaling, I realized it wasn't as big of a difference as I perceived. It was lighter, yes. Noticeably? Probably not.

    I can tell you this: IT'S PLUSH! Compared to my steel spring, the ride is much more reponsive and IS noticeable. It's the same rate as my steel spring, has the same amount of turns on preload and sag is the same - nothing was changed except for the spring. I'd spend $150 again for the difference I feel. I just try new stuff, if it works better than what I had then I'm stoked. I don't need an engineering degree to tell me that...sounds like most of the people on here don't either.
    I like bacon.

  66. #66
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    I looked at the marketing links, and I pulled out a few materials handbooks and design guidelines. LOTS of just plain wrong stuff there on the marketing links, but it would sure sounds good, if it was true.

    Hey Ti has to be better, the marketing says it is!
    Marketing also says it won't corrode. Wonder if marketing ever got it next to CAD plate, or graphite without protective coatings?
    Funny how marketing says they have to design steel springs to the ragged edge because of weight and size but they can design Ti to replace it with enough margin for added durability. (Interesting since Ti alloys can also be subject to stress corrosion cracking just like certain aluminum alloys.)

    It costs more, therefore it has to be better.

    It is possible, due to the variance in materials, manufacturing methods, specs and grading that you might feel a difference over the operating range. It is possible that difference is real and might be measured in a lab. It is also possible that in some cases the whole difference might be in the user's head.

    As has been mentioned the variation in manufacturing tolerances allowable for run of the mill steel springs used in most bike applications is something like +/- 10% which when you get to a 500# shock spring is one heck of a lot and plenty to allow switching springs to feel different even if they have the same labels.

    If it works for you and you feel it is money well spent then great. If you know why it is different and can explain it to the rest of us that's even better.

    On the other hand please don't belive everything the marketing wankers say and be careful not to quote marketing among people who actually make the product or work with the wonderful materials and components in other applications. Chances are the marketing people pulled half the description out of Harlequin romance novels they were reading when they got the assignment.

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