technique: How-to & what's-it-called?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New question here. technique: How-to & what's-it-called?

    I'm an agg-XC rider without any freeride skills/tricks, and wondering about this technique I saw a freerider doing.

    For lack of better words, it's essentially a freerider version of bunny hop, if you will. But, unlike my basic XC bunny hop (by going up straight both wheels together pulling by arms & clipped in shoes), this guy did a very brief wheelie (non-pedaling kind, called "manual"?) to load up the rear shock (kinda), then pop it all up & forward (much higher & powerful than my XC bunny hop). It was so smooth & dynamic that I was very impressed.

    What's it called?

    Who does one go about practicing it & doing it?

    Thanks for your help,
    - PiroChu

  2. #2
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    That is a true bunnyhop. Done by not pulling up on your clipless pedals. The best way to learn is to practice bunnyhopping on flat (non-clipless) pedals and over a small obstacle until you get it.
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  3. #3
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    how to load the tail?

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    That is a true bunnyhop.
    Really? I didn't know that... Duh...! Thanks for clerifying that for me...

    So, for a person who rides clipless and never tried flats (like me), who do I go about learning how to load the tail, exactly? To do this, do I have to first learn how to do "manual" (which I don't know how to, either)? Also, I don't seem to have the right "timing" to load & then unload for the hop, either.

    Thanks again,
    - PiroChu

    PS.
    I'd still like to keep/ride clipless on my bike (for rides around here). But, while practicing, I guess I can wear tennis shoes to do so in the driveway. Anyway, once I learn how to do it correctly, I can do this "real" bunnyhop with clipless or platform, right?

  4. #4
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    You talking about a J Hop?

  5. #5
    VIA
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    Man..
    I think that you gonna need a FR bike or at least a HT ... With a 140mm stem and clipless pedals is gonna be hard to lern.



    PS.
    From the web:
    To do a bunny hop, first start out at a speed where your could keep going for at least 5 seconds from lack of speed. Get your pedals parallel to the ground (both in the same height). Now pull up on the handlebars and do a small wheelie. Use your foot that's tilted back to 'pop' the back end of the bike up. Use your arms to help. To increase height, do bigger wheelies at the beginning. To go super high: do big wheelies, bend your knees a lot. Use all your strenght in your legs and arms and lift the bike high. Tuck the bike under you to increase high. Practice up a curb or over cereal boxes
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    Last edited by VIA; 01-21-2005 at 12:17 PM.

  6. #6
    Canadian at Heart
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    j hop is different, much different. That takes lots a ballance and skill. When you do a j hop you are at a stand still then you let off the brakes and give a pedal stroke all at the same time. It is fun go up stairs or transfer to things. The bunny hop that you are looking for just has some more components to it. The faster you go and higher you get the front wheel off the ground the more height you will get.

  7. #7
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    Since I saw a guy doing this while blasting thru the descending trail, I guess it's "bunnyhop" that I'm looking into, not "J-Hop" used for trials discipline...


    Thanks for the "from-the-web" how-to.

    Could you elaborate further on this portion? I didn't quite get that yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by VIA
    Use your foot that's tilted back to 'pop' the back end of the bike up.

  8. #8
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    i believe it is called a J-hop. idk why, but it sorta feels like u move ur mass in the shape of an upside down J laying on its side. oh and i doubt the guy was riding with a 5th element, cause they suck a Jhop to nothing, unless u r really strong, u may get a j-hop off, (notice it isnt captilized)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiroChu
    Since I saw a guy doing this while blasting thru the descending trail, I guess it's "bunnyhop" that I'm looking into, not "J-Hop" used for trials discipline...


    Thanks for the "from-the-web" how-to.

    Could you elaborate further on this portion? I didn't quite get that yet...
    Uhh here , pretty good description on the maneuver

    http://bmxbasics.org/new/bmx0703.html

  10. #10
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    Good job! Thanks for the URL!

    Quote Originally Posted by b12yan88
    Uhh here , pretty good description on the maneuver

    http://bmxbasics.org/new/bmx0703.html

    Wow, that's as good as it gets on this topic! Thanks so much for the very helpful URL. Now, the hard part - it's time for reading & practicing & reading & practicing...

  11. #11
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    Another good tip is if you have (or have access to) mountain biking or trials-style movies. Watch one of the pros doing a bunnyhop a bunch of times (best is in a simple urban riding clip)...watch it in slo-mo, where/when the riders shift their weight, and what they are doing with their arms and legs at each point through the jump. I find this helps a lot, and is much better than a crappy little mpg you find on the net where you can't really tell what they are doing.

    ...Mostly it's just practice once you've got the basic description...your body will figure out what to do eventually

  12. #12
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    biggest mistakes people make when trying to learn this are:

    -jumping forward over somehting, rather than leaning back and jumping up allowing your speed to carry you forward over the object.

    -pulling the handlebars to your chest, instead of to your belt-line

    -learning all the bad habbit cheater-moves on clipless pedals. you now have to train yourself that simple pulling up does not make the bike move up. it's all body english and mechanics.

    -not getting the front wheel high enough.
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  13. #13
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    J-Hop?

    Quote Originally Posted by RyBread
    j hop is different, much different. That takes lots a ballance and skill. When you do a j hop you are at a stand still then you let off the brakes and give a pedal stroke all at the same time. It is fun go up stairs or transfer to things. The bunny hop that you are looking for just has some more components to it. The faster you go and higher you get the front wheel off the ground the more height you will get.
    Isn't that a pedal kick? I thought J-hopping was like a bigger way to bunny hop and pedal kicking was what you use for trials and all. But for the J-hop its almost exactly as the guy to posts above me said (i forget who it was)
    hELLS fREERIDER

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hells Freerider
    Isn't that a pedal kick? I thought J-hopping was like a bigger way to bunny hop and pedal kicking was what you use for trials and all. But for the J-hop its almost exactly as the guy to posts above me said (i forget who it was)
    Yup, thats a pedal kick thats used in trials. Something I'm currently trying to figure out.
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  15. #15
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    ive found the best way to learn is over a 2x4 or something that will move if you smash your back wheel into curb are just a good way to crack ur rim try to do a bunny hop on just the back wheel and then push the front wheel back down at the same time, seems to work for me

    good luck

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiroChu
    Wow, that's as good as it gets on this topic! Thanks so much for the very helpful URL. Now, the hard part - it's time for reading & practicing & reading & practicing...

    If your confused about the difference between all the maneuvers, check this out.
    http://trials-online.com/trials-techniques.php

  17. #17
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    a (small) progress...

    Many thanks to b12yan88 for providing the "BMX basics" URL, I've made a (small) progress.

    Yes, I still have clipless pedals/shoes (and a 100mm/8-degree stem) of my agg-XC setup, but now I seem to be getting the 1st part (front pull) of the 2 pieces, somewhat. With that, I can now feel the rear shock (Romic, platform compression fully opened) being loaded (when I do it right), and probably can go up on a street-curb height.

    The 2nd piece (back hop) is hard. With my setup, for now, I'm totally cheating with clipless to lift the rear after the front pull. Hence, I know I don't know yet how to correctly pull up (back hop) with sneakers by tilting/pushing the shoes/pedals vertically.

    By the way, is this exactly how folks on FR/DH bikes with sneakers stay on a bike (feet on pedals) on a super-rough/bumpy trails and/or up in the air???
    (Not knowing how, if I wore sneakers & used platform pedals now, I'd imagine I'd totally slip off the bike/pedals while riding on a rough/bumpy trails.)

    But, it's much more fun now doing this "up-and-over" bunnyhops on agg-XC trails, when jumping over a fallen tree branches or something, as opposed to my old "1.., 2.., 3.., and jump up together" bunnyhops. The "feel" is nice & more 'dynamic'. (I've been missin' out.)

    I'll continue to practice more (though it may be slightly different for my application)...
    Thanks,
    - PiroChu
    Last edited by PiroChu; 01-26-2005 at 01:25 PM.

  18. #18
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    I need to learn how to honnyhop, all the advice here is pretty useful.

  19. #19
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    to bunnyhop w/ flats, pretty much just pull up on the front (you don't have to be to the balance point, but you want some decent height). As the front nears the end of its ascent, pop the back by unweighting and sort of kicking up and back into the pedals (this part takes the most practice). Suck the bike up toward your butt by bending your legs, and then as you come down, start to straighten your legs so that you land flat or slightly rear-first. Once you can do this over a small, soft/moveable obstacle, try a curb, and then bigger and bigger.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiroChu
    Many thanks to b12yan88 for providing the
    By the way, is this exactly how folks on FR/DH bikes with sneakers stay on a bike (feet on pedals) on a super-rough/bumpy trails and/or up in the air???
    (Not knowing how, if I wore sneakers & used platform pedals now, I'd imagine I'd totally slip off the bike/pedals while riding on a rough/bumpy trails.)

    - PiroChu
    This is actually more a combination of very grippy spiked flat pedals and veryy grippy skate-type shoes...
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  21. #21
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    [QUOTE=PiroChu]Many thanks to b12yan88 for providing the "BMX basics" URL, I've made a (small) progress.

    Yes, I still have clipless pedals/shoes (and a 100mm/8-degree stem) of my agg-XC setup, but now I seem to be getting the 1st part (front pull) of the 2 pieces, somewhat. With that, I can now feel the rear shock (Romic, platform compression fully opened) being loaded (when I do it right), and probably can go up on a street-curb height.

    The 2nd piece (back hop) is hard. With my setup, for now, I'm totally cheating with clipless to lift the rear after the front pull. Hence, I know I don't know yet how to correctly pull up (back hop) with sneakers by tilting/pushing the shoes/pedals vertically.

    By the way, is this exactly how folks on FR/DH bikes with sneakers stay on a bike (feet on pedals) on a super-rough/bumpy trails and/or up in the air???
    (Not knowing how, if I wore sneakers & used platform pedals now, I'd imagine I'd totally slip off the bike/pedals while riding on a rough/bumpy trails.)

    But, it's much more fun now doing this "up-and-over" bunnyhops on agg-XC trails, when jumping over a fallen tree branches or something, as opposed to my old "1.., 2.., 3.., and jump up together" bunnyhops. The "feel" is nice & more 'dynamic'. (I've been missin' out.)

    I'll continue to practice more (though it may be slightly different for my application)...
    Thanks,
    - PiroChu[/QUOTE

    Nice to hear the progress that you made. If you have any flats though, i'd suggest you give it a shot, and wear jeans your first time. Im sure that you will slip, but dont get discouraged. If you want to be safe and don't want to spend money, you can ghetto up some shin guards like my friends and i use to do when playing soccer with a piece of thick cardboard and wear that under your jeans. This pedal sticking thing is probably one of the post important skills to learn to handle the trails that much better. It helps with pivots and all that too.

    One thing that might help when doing this is to just stand on the bike, and jump off your pedals and land back on your pedals. I know sounds silly but i told my friend that... and he finally understood what i meant. After that you will have a tendency to point your toes down, as you will see. Now do that for a while then practice pushing backwards while you take your weight off the pedals. When people try to do this they don't understand what's going on. The first thing you do is jump up, then when your toes are pointed kinda downwards push back. Dont try to force yoru toes down, it's really natural once you do my jumping off the pedal thingy, all you need to add is pushing back. I can actually just stand that and jump my rear wheel up just using my legs. And protect your shins.. dont say i didn't warn you i warned you.

  22. #22
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    Another (small) progress...

    I finally bought a pair of cheapo platform pedals (Weyless B-27) & VANS shoes (with soft/gummy waffle-pattern soles, per another post), and I've been briefly practicing this in the parking lot some evenings last couple of week. (I still have to try that "jumping on the pedals" excercise next...)

    I think I made some more (small) progress of the 2nd piece ("back hop"). When I miss the timing, it's obvious that I don't get much hop. But when I nail the timing just right (& with a help of rear shock compression), then the feel of springing out is very addictive (though my hop is still small).
    On that note... Sorry to revive this post again, but I have some more questions.

    (A) What can I do to better pull up my "back hop" with my front foot? I feel like all my pulling is still done by the rear foot alone. I don't feel much pressure or grip on my front foot.

    (B) On Saturday, I finally went out on a local trail with those platform pedals (scary!) & sneakers. I did OK most of the time, but I felt like I had to concentrate on my feet (more so than where I'm headed!) whenever a good foot gripping was needed. Climbing was more tiring, but that might've been also because of my pre-season "conditioning" (or lack of).
    Anyway, I think I did OK on bumpy and steep stuff & some small (micro) ramps/drops (I just carefully rolled off/over with momentum), but I was very hesitent & did not attempt to spring off any ramps/drops (as I would've with my clipless that I'm used to), because I was so scared of my feet coming off the pedals while in the air.
    How do I keep my feet securely on the pedals while in the air? Since the movement of "bunny hop" kinda gives me a good grip, should I be poping that for every single ramp/drop (small or big) I'm about go at (for both the "straight down" type vs "ramping up" type take off's)?

    (C) Also, I read in another thread about foot position. "Ball of foot" over spindle while pedaling (like with clipless) vs "arch of foot" over spindle while descending. I'm still consciously getting used to the latter positioning. It's harder (& doesn't feel natural yet) than I thought. Practice, practice...

    Anyway, I'll keep at this.

    Thanks again,
    - PiroChu
    Last edited by PiroChu; 03-28-2005 at 05:07 PM.

  23. #23
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    Funny because most of us platform riders are timid when riding clipless.
    i want to post more but i can't stop riding!

  24. #24
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    i 'recently' started ridng flat pedals again after years of clipless. first, stick with it. the first couple of days on flats I was thinking, 'this is just plain dumb. gimme my clips back!' now when i ride clips on the road or cyclocross i find myself thinking, 'hmm... maybe i could put platforms on this bike too.'

    anyway,

    A)a couple of ideas: make sure both feet are rotated a little forward (toes down). make sure you really concentrate on keeping pressure on both pedals. and finally, it is probably quite alright that more lifting occurs with the rear foot...you have more leverage with that foot anyway. as long as you're not kicking your back wheel out to the side, no worries.

    B)
    Quote Originally Posted by PC
    Since the movement of "bunny hop" kinda gives me a good grip, should I be poping that for every single ramp/drop (small or big) I'm about go at (for both the "straight down" type vs "ramping up" type take off's)?
    You really answered your own question here: Yes. hopping off of everything is actually a good idea. it doesnt have to be a big hop just a little preload and lift. hopping off the drop means you are in control of the bike not the other way around and this is key. (off topic: good gawd. i saw so many people getting taken for rides by their bikes this weekend. long-travel big-bikes + no skills = giving the canadian salute off of the tiniest stuff. :shakinghead: )

    C)I think this is personal preference. I ride mostly on my arch. when i get tired and am just trving to put as much power to the rear wheel as possible and get my lazy ass home to drink some beer, i ride more on the balls of my feet. some people have trouble slipping off the pedals while riding on the balls of their feet though, so be careful.

    Another piece of advice that someone here gave me: On technical, fast and/or steep downhills rotate your feet back (toes up) a little to provide even better grip.

    0.02 YMMV
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSUN
    Funny because most of us platform riders are timid when riding clipless.
    I ride much more aggressively when clipped in. I am more concerned about my feet staying on the pedals than clipping out. Only on very slow trials type riding do I prefer flats.

    I have bailed off of a 3.5' high log ride - clipped out while jumping sideways over the top tube, landed on my feet with my bike beside me, on the ground still holding onto the bars.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    I have bailed off of a 3.5' high log ride - clipped out while jumping sideways over the top tube, landed on my feet with my bike beside me, on the ground still holding onto the bars.
    Super Shiggy............
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  27. #27
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    Your arms play a big role as well-

    1) As you approach the object pull up on the bars and shift your weight rearwards. You should be standing with your knees bent.

    2) As the front end reaches the desired height you begin to "pop off" with your legs. Simultaneously you should be lifting the bars up and away from your body, while rotating the handlebars away from you using your foreams. This bring the front end up higher and helps rotate the rear end up. At the same time your feet are cupping the pedals with your legs sucking up the rear end of the bike.

  28. #28
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    shoes

    Thanks, chuffer, for your helpful feedback & confirmation to my Q's. Before I started my post here, I did a search and actually read this post by you (minus all the flaming posts), so I at least knew not to give up just after the first few rides. So, I'll keep at this. (And, with your info above, maybe I'll even try to "pop" a bit, when going off at something this weekend, little by little...)

    https://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/platform-pedal-underachiever-31255.html

    Thanks, gurp - I'll continue to pay attention to my arms, too. I think that the "bmxbasics" tips gave me some good ideas on this.

    Also, per another post, I just bought a pair of VANS skateshoes specifically with the "Off-The-Wall" soles (soft/gummy & "uniterrupted" waffle-pattern), and they certainly seem to be grippier (than my regular Simples skateshoes/sneakers), too. I found a pair on eBay, and they are called "Rowley Shams" or something rather (pic below) - just got them delivered last night. I actually was a bit skeptical about the shoe soles making such a difference, so I was pleasantly surprised. Can't wait to try them out on the trails.

    https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.p...13763#poststop



    Thanks, all,
    - PiroChu




    --- NOTE ---

    "uninterrupted" waffle pattern


    &nbsp; vs

    "interrupted" waffle patterns
    Last edited by PiroChu; 03-29-2005 at 05:27 PM.

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