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  1. #1
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    SX Trail or BottleRocket

    Which would you go with for lif accessed riding a couple times a year and mostly all mountain. Specialized SX Trail II 06' or the 07/06' Transition BottleRocket? I know its 6.6" vs. 5.5", but what would you suggest. I could get a complete sx trail and bottlerocket for around the same price of 2600. What would you do?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by edray
    Which would you go with for lif accessed riding a couple times a year and mostly all mountain. Specialized SX Trail II 06' or the 07/06' Transition BottleRocket? I know its 6.6" vs. 5.5", but what would you suggest. I could get a complete sx trail and bottlerocket for around the same price of 2600. What would you do?
    BR has my vote.

    I'd much rather support a smaller company than the big S. Also, the Enduros have had many issues with bearings/bushings. Many people around here ride Transition and love them. The people who bought '05-06 Enduros have not been able to use them since they're always in the shop several times per year. Also, many people have complained that they are too XC.

    Go Transition.
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  3. #3
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    Can't vouch for transition, never ridden one..
    The SX however I have.
    Rode a regular enduro for a while at Diablo and on tough East Coast 'AM' trails.
    Bought an SX Trail III and just hit whiteface, bolton valley and highland mountain on it all in one weekend.
    The bike takes abuse, handles the steeps and can be pedaled to keep up with XC friends.
    The '07 has a gusset reinforcing the chainstay where the 06 models keep breaking. Met 3 people who have snapped their chainstays more than once.
    The 07 is better if you can get it.
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  4. #4
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    Keep in mind two things with the BR. It has a really short seattube which means you won't have as much adjustability. All that really means is that you may need two seatposts....one for AM use and one for lift access. It's a burly frame......about 8+ lbs. so it may not make the best AM bike. This isn't a vote against it....but you should know the potential issues.

    SX trail would be killer as a do all bike and it's become really popular in the park.

    EBX

  5. #5
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    I would go with the bottle rocket.
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  6. #6
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    The Enduro SX frame weight is not light either and is pretty much the same weight as the BR. Depending on what you were doing more is the way I would lean (SX more trail, BR more slope)

  7. #7
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    I vote BR, even if its only because I'd rather support Transition than Specialized.

  8. #8
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    The SX. The Bottlerocket is lower travel and IMO wouldn't be as good for "real" DH.

    Considering I own an 06 Specialized S-Works Enduro, if you can't figure out the washers for the shock you're retarded.

  9. #9
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    I love the idea of both of them, except for the swingarm problems on the 06's. Ive heard a couple other complaining of the same thing. The 07' would be sick, but its out of my price range. What else would you suggest along the same lines, keeping it under $2700? Ive been looking at Knolly and a few other smaller companies becuase of the quality etc...
    Thanks

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lickqid
    I vote BR, even if its only because I'd rather support Transition than Specialized.

    wordd man, transition all the way
    Looking for a 7.87 x 2.25mm shock, any brand any age that runs well!! cheap would be appreciated!

  11. #11
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    Well one issue is that they both have different applications. If you matched the BR up with the SX it would be a fairer comparison. Personally I would go with the SX Trail just because it will be a great all around bike. It's a little on the heavy side, but that can easily be remedied with lighter parts. I'll admit I dig the BR, but you will get a lot more use out of the SX plus their lifetime warranty is hard to top.

  12. #12
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    The Bottlerocket is so dreamy.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by edray
    I love the idea of both of them, except for the swingarm problems on the 06's. Ive heard a couple other complaining of the same thing. The 07' would be sick, but its out of my price range. What else would you suggest along the same lines, keeping it under $2700? Ive been looking at Knolly and a few other smaller companies becuase of the quality etc...
    Thanks

    If you mean for frame only, than the Knolly would be a great choice.

    I believe the Delerium T "frame only" is right at $2,450.

    And that's for an 11.5lb "AM" frame. Hmmm???

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    If you mean for frame only, than the Knolly would be a great choice.

    And that's for an 11.5lb "AM" frame. Hmmm???
    Yeah, is't that a funny description....... but that's what they call "AM" on the Shore.......a 7" burly bike that can be pedaled up as well as railed down the nastiest descents. F'ing Canucks!

    EBX

  15. #15
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    SXT, no questions asked
    Nothing it can't handle, superior FSR design

    We'll see how your "small" companies respond to warranty issues.
    As your still waiting for your warranty frame I'll be riding, seen it first hand.
    bro had a "small" company frame....3 weeks
    I've broken ONE specialized bike in my 11 years of riding and I had a new frame in 3 days
    The big guys have their advantages...
    IMO

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by snow-man
    SXT, no questions asked
    Nothing it can't handle, superior FSR design

    We'll see how your "small" companies respond to warranty issues.
    As your still waiting for your warranty frame I'll be riding, seen it first hand.
    bro had a "small" company frame....3 weeks
    I've broken ONE specialized bike in my 11 years of riding and I had a new frame in 3 days
    The big guys have their advantages...
    IMO
    You're funny, Snow-man....

    In case you haven't been paying attention, the reason why Transition is getting any attention these days is A. They're putting out some really nice bikes. B. They're bikes rarely break (most would say they're 'overbuilt' and C. if customer does have an issue, they are very much taken care of. When you call them, you talk to the owners, not some CS or Warranty rep. and the Transition boyz will take care of you pronto.

    I'm not saying specialized won't take care of a customer, but your argument here doesn't hold water. Based on the fact that you didn't say your buddy broke a transition, I'm guessing it wasn't one. If not, then I don't think you have much to contribute to that aspect of the conversation. Talk about what you know....not what you don't.

    As for FSR vs. faux bar vs. vpp vs. DW link. All have their advantages and disadvantages.....and it depends on what a rider is looking for. It's always been my experience that the rider makes the biggest difference anyway......as they say, it's the horses, not the chariot.

    Cheers,
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  17. #17
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    I think they're two pretty different bikes.

    The bottle rocket seems like its designed for big stunts (gap jumps and drops and such) making efficient use of its 5.5" to make it light but able to take hits.

    The SX can do that but also seems like it would be better for technical, rocky stuff, as well as for general all mountain use.

    Depends what you want to do more, AM/DH (sx) or park/FR (br)

    Transition seems cool, but I also really like my specialized bikes.

  18. #18
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    I would go with the BR I saw a guy blow his shock on a small drop in the park on the SxT. Sweet looking bike also. You may look into an Iron Horse as well they make sweer bikes for the price

  19. #19
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    for no other reason than principle, I'd get the BR, no technical reasons, no experience on either, but, as ebx states, transition seems to be a real bikers company, not some huge conglomerate like the big boyz "appear" to be... I've spoken with Kevin and Kyle and they seem to be very genuine folks, hard not to do biz with guys like that... they get excited talking about bikes and riding (not just talking about their bikes either), and while the biz may be supporting them, they seem to be riders first and foremost... my next bike will be a transition...
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just2wilde
    I would go with the BR I saw a guy blow his shock on a small drop in the park on the SxT.
    You realize that a blown shock can happen on any bike right? Not sure if that was an argument against the SXT, but just pointing out the obvious.

    I think Coldawg summed it up well. FWIW, I've seen some folks do insane shite on both bikes....stuff most of us wouldn't do on 9" rigs. I think some folks were having chainstay issues on the Enduro/SXT, but those got beefed up.

    EBX

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by snow-man
    SXT, no questions asked
    Nothing it can't handle, superior FSR design

    We'll see how your "small" companies respond to warranty issues.
    As your still waiting for your warranty frame I'll be riding, seen it first hand.
    bro had a "small" company frame....3 weeks
    I've broken ONE specialized bike in my 11 years of riding and I had a new frame in 3 days
    The big guys have their advantages...
    IMO
    Yeah, like when pretty much, every single 2005 Demo8 broke in the same exact place, and specialized refused to do a recall, even though they admited that it was clearly a manufacturers defect. All the guys who had bought a 2nd hand Demo 8 that year, were left out in the cold.
    Give me a fycking break.

    I'll take a rider owned company anyday of the week. The 2 guys that own Transition bikes have already proven themselves to have CS of the highest level.

  22. #22
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    SPECIALIZED: The warm fuzzy bike company that aggressively went after Stratos suspension and forced their closure, when they really didn't have to do that. Yup, I want to haggle a C.S. issue with them. Where do I sign up?
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    SPECIALIZED: The warm fuzzy bike company that aggressively went after Stratos suspension and forced their closure, when they really didn't have to do that. Yup, I want to haggle a C.S. issue with them. Where do I sign up?
    Not to mention Specialized going after Mountain Cycle for the name of their Stumptown CX bike (too similar to Stumpjumper)...

    Funny thing is... Specialized as a line of bikes and products called "Transition". How is that not the same thing but worse? Check it out, their triathlete stuff...

    If Specialized makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside then go ahead and buy their stuff. Personally I don't like their vibe at all and "vote with my wallet".

  24. #24
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    Transitions come with a lifetime crash replacement policy. Basically you can run over your bike with a car and they will replace the damaged frame section for an extremely reasonable charge.

    I say bottle rocket.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by edray
    I love the idea of both of them, except for the swingarm problems on the 06's....
    don't get it twisted, the stay problems stretch as far back as the '02 lineup. you'd think a big company like SpecialEd would have solved issues that go on for so long....


  26. #26
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    TBC BR



    specialized a majority of my arguments have already been posted...
    Schralp it Heavy.

  27. #27
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    Specialized Customer Service

    I have owned three specialized bikes in the past 10 years. I only own one now (a bighit expert) which i love. The enduro SXT looks like a great bike to me, but i have not ridden it.

    I hear a lot of ancedotal stories about their customer service, but in my experience it has been great. One of the specialized bikes i owned was a stumpjumper m2. I broke the frame 6 years after I bought it, and planned on just eating the cost and buying a new rig. The store i brought it to contacted specialized, who honored my lifetime waranty and gave me a new frame.

    Just wanted to throw that in...

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumby
    The '07 has a gusset reinforcing

    anyone have pictures or care to snap a shot of this reinforced stay/stays on the '07 model?

    The bikes are gonna ride substantially different although they'll both rip trails and park.

    the bottle rocket has a slightly smaller more flickable chasis, with the increased standover it makes for a close to perfect park bike, imo. (also would help with someone who is vertically challenged looking for that extra S.O.)

    The SXT will likely have a slight edge at high speed in rougher spots over the BR for a few reasons. They will each excell in similar and slightly different conditions, if you can ride both, look at both in person (fondle them) and see what you like from there; think about which one suits the riding you'll be doing the most. If you are gonna dj the bike alot I'd def. go for the BR, if you thought you'd be spending more time climbing and riding trails then I'd probably go with the sxtrail.

    both are really nice frames and you'll enjoy either one, I'm on a SXT, but would own a BR also....

    (edit: on a side note it's always really nice to be able to call a company up and talk to the people behind the bikes who also ride, I'm confident that both companies will take care of the customer in a warranty situation.)
    Last edited by Castle; 10-13-2006 at 04:49 PM.

  29. #29
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    To be honest I got EP on the SX trail so it was a no brainer for me.
    Their warranty is pretty good and I have seen some suspect stuff pushed through as a 'warranty'. Of course this sort of stuff bites you in the ass as it drives up the general prices.

    Weight wise my L with dual ply DH tires is just under 36lb on the shop scale. Got to be less than 34lb with regular tires and thats a fair weight for a strong bike that takes abuse.
    It pedals very light as well and I find I can climb most stuff.
    Size wise I can not commet, I am 6'5" almost and on a large so standover on most bikes is not an issue and I can get plenty far back behind the bike.

    I would love to support the smaller companies but at this stage I need to go with the best deal in terms of cost and warranty etc for me.

    Did I mention it was a pretty sick ride that begs for more?
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  30. #30
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    -I've DH and trail ridden the BR and an Enduro (only parking lot rode an SX).
    -You will not be disappointed w/ a BR ride in comparison to those bikes IMO.
    - It's a solid little bike that is ready to play big. And it looks like it will be the type of bike you can ride daily for years w/o any problems AKA Bullit, Stinky...
    -Rider owned, overbuilt for durability & performance, bomber ride.
    All about the ride

  31. #31
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    gumby, will you snap a shot of those 07 stays, specifically the gusset you are talkin about....

    thanks

  32. #32
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    Here you go..
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  33. #33
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    yup, mine doesn't have that on the inside of the stay....

    makes me leary of when mine will go pop....

  34. #34
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    I would take either, with the right build, a friend of mynes brother just picked up a 07 SXT and oh baby is it nice, never ridden a transition but ive always heard awesome things about them, I dont know I just dont like the suspension on the transition (havent ridden one) but Just judging by what it looks like, It doesnt look as smooth as the SXT, again not based on any fact, I just really love the 07 sxt, Specialized really did an awesome job with it, and by the looks if it you shouldnt need to contact them about a new frame that this is beefy

  35. #35
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    I say br.
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  36. #36
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    well you're all wrong I'm afraid!

    The OP wrote he does all mountain with lift access a couple of times a year.

    So the only right answer is get a heckler and use the money you save to rent a real DH bike for those couple of times when you go to the lift parks, at least 8" travel at both ends.
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  37. #37
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    i just built up an 07 sxt and love it yes it is a little heavy but nimble and fast. I built it up to use at Diablo in NJ and there is nothing there that it cant handle. Now I just need to sell my demo 9

  38. #38
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    whats the build on the bottlerocket??
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by quickneonrt
    i just built up an 07 sxt and love it yes it is a little heavy but nimble and fast. I built it up to use at Diablo in NJ and there is nothing there that it cant handle. Now I just need to sell my demo 9
    the 07 baby blue frame? if so ya gotta lemme get a feel on that. u can see my 303
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  40. #40
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    hmmm

    Both bikes are gonna be rad. I currrently own two Specialized bikes and love them both. They have been great to me and are built well. I can also contend that Specialized was once a small company like Transition at one point. The fact that they've grown tells me that they do good business and have good products. Transition could someday be huge as well and we'll be saying the same about them. As long as a company makes decent products and stands by them, they will do well. The whole story about how hard it is to make dough in the bike biz is true. We should congratulate a company that has stuck around for so long and keeps innovating to keep us on good bikes. Business is business. Whenever you're number 1 theres always going to be others wanting to badmouth or take you down. Do you have to step on a few toes? Perhaps the ones that infringe upon a design or idea. That's business. I'm happy to support either company, but to badmouth the other because of size is rediculous. It's the product that always wins out....

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Largextracheese
    Both bikes are gonna be rad. I currrently own two Specialized bikes and love them both. They have been great to me and are built well. I can also contend that Specialized was once a small company like Transition at one point. The fact that they've grown tells me that they do good business and have good products. Transition could someday be huge as well and we'll be saying the same about them. As long as a company makes decent products and stands by them, they will do well. The whole story about how hard it is to make dough in the bike biz is true. We should congratulate a company that has stuck around for so long and keeps innovating to keep us on good bikes. Business is business. Whenever you're number 1 theres always going to be others wanting to badmouth or take you down. Do you have to step on a few toes? Perhaps the ones that infringe upon a design or idea. That's business. I'm happy to support either company, but to badmouth the other because of size is rediculous. It's the product that always wins out....
    Well said.Here is my ideal build for the BR, substituting a couple parts, such as the cranks for Saint and some other minor details. That is basically it though. There are perfectly good arguments for either rig. Ive been considering the 07 SXT I. It looks like a really solid bike, and If I had any leftover cash I could swap out my ideal parts. Im gonna stay away from the Heckler thanks, its super flexy. Keep the comments coming.
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  42. #42
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    i have no experience with either bike but i will tell you this...i would never buy a bike new from specialized. yes they do have a lot of proven bikes that i have ridden and liked, but they are a truly money driven, corperate company. i know all bike companies want to make some cash obviously...but transition is a rider driven company. i have talked to kyle from transition and he was very helpful. specialized is not rider driven anymore, its all about the cash. not saying their bikes in general aren't nice, but they are also pretty spendy when you consider what else you could get. i can't say anything about the lawsuit issues that have been floating around with specialized but ya...just how i feel. i want a bike designed by riders, not riders turned businessmen.

  43. #43
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    Ummmmm...well.

    "Riders turned businessman." Isn't that what the Transitions guys are? I'm positive that a vast majority of the Specialized dudes ride bikes on a regular basis. I do think the angle that the Transition guys have is abit different for sure. In the PNW the Transition guys are always riding around these parts so you're pretty likely to run into them or know somebody who knows them personally. They are also younger and ride the gnar so prospective buyers can relate to them abit better. They definitely have a niche and make fine bikes, but they are not that different at the end of the day. They still need to put food on their tables.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lickqid
    I vote BR, even if its only because I'd rather support Transition than Specialized.
    Hell yeah! Support the rider-owned small company. I've ridden the SX (rented one at whistler) and it rode nice, but from what I've seen the BR will be more my style anyway.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Largextracheese
    "Riders turned businessman." Isn't that what the Transitions guys are? I'm positive that a vast majority of the Specialized dudes ride bikes on a regular basis. I do think the angle that the Transition guys have is abit different for sure. In the PNW the Transition guys are always riding around these parts so you're pretty likely to run into them or know somebody who knows them personally. They are also younger and ride the gnar so prospective buyers can relate to them abit better. They definitely have a niche and make fine bikes, but they are not that different at the end of the day. They still need to put food on their tables.

    that is true....they both do need to make the money to live their lives. im not saying specialized guys dont ride. im sure they do. but you don't see pics and vids of the owners actually testing out their own products do you? correct me if im wrong....im not trying to disagree. point i was trying to make was that i would much rather support a small rider driven company then a large corperation...

  46. #46
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    don't get me wrong either.

    I would ride either of the bikes. I just find it hard to discount Specialized when they've been around for so long and have contributed so much to the sport and innovation of Mtn. biking or biking in general. Hell, I remember riding the first Stump Jumpers when they had Bullhorn handlebars and the sport was new. So much history easily forgotten. It's sort of like the Wade and Schley argument. Should we allow these guys to participate in events and vids when they aren't throwing the latest trick? Yes, because at their core they are strong riders and have contributed so much to the sport that it would be foolish to let them go by the wayside. Specialized is one of the founding fathers of this sport and should be respected for that as well as their great bikes. Transition is doing great things and are turning heads in the industry due to their fairly recent success in the biz. It goes to show that the small guy can exist alongside the big guy and both be successfull. I still think it all comes down to product though. If either of these companies had substandard products, would they survive.......only if they're name was Ellsworth.

  47. #47
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    I would think that Berrecloth, Strait and Steve R. can atest to some R n' D work for Specialized....just a hunch

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by snow-man
    I would think that Berrecloth, Strait and Steve R. can atest to some R n' D work for Specialized....just a hunch
    I would think that none of these three riders ever have to concern themselves with a warranty issue...just a hunch.
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  49. #49
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    Sx

    I'd go for the Sx. It has more travel at about the same weight and the FSR suspension is superior IMO. More supple and with no brake jack.

    .Sure some Sx have broken at the chainstays but to say its an inevitable would be a huge exaggeration. For most sx owners this will never be an issue as long as youre not constantly casing jumps ordoing big .landings to flat Any bike will break if abused including the BR.And... if you do somehow break a Sx it will be warranteed for free. Spec have an awesome replacement system

    Dont get the 05Sx though, only get the 06 or up. The 05 had too many issues with the 5th element shock to reccommend it.

    Either bike is good I just think the Sx is slightly better.all round. The Preston is probably tougher

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by edray
    Ive been looking at Knolly and a few other smaller companies becuase of the quality etc...
    Thanks
    The Blitz II by Versus Cycles in my opinion would be a great choice. It is stronger and the rear end will be stiffer. The suspension and geometry on that bike are dialed. One of my friends I ride with owns a Transition and I used to own an '05 Enduro set up for freeride and after riding all of these bikes, I would pick an SX Trail over a BR, but the Blitz rides so much better than both of those bikes.

  51. #51
    Bikes Rule
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    This is a good question and the debate is worthy. Working for a bike shop that sells Specialized, and after owning several of the Big S rides AS WELL AS a couple Transitions, I had the exact same dilema. SXT or TBR. I must say upfront that I get EP pricing from TBC and Specialized so pricing was about cost for both. So I ruled out the cost as the deciding factor as they were fairly comperable.

    The next question was what was the riding going to be on this. Now with my Demo-9 that is set-up a as an all purpose (DH or FR, depending on wheels/settings) I had the bike big dialed already. I wanted something to throw around and more of an all-purpose ride. So the same 2 options were in my mind.

    As mentioned I had a few Specilaized and currently had the Dirtbag and Vagrant frames built up. I have had nothing but absolute great luck with Kevin and Kyle (not because they gave me EP pricing) but because they were great to deal with. I had a small issue with the shock connecting sleeve on the Dirtbag having play develop and loosening to the point that it was making a lot of noise. They sent out 3 sets of bolts/spacers next day for nothing. Also sent a pair of new rockers for $10 - all in like 3 days.

    My goal was to combine the DirtBag and Vagrant into one manageable bike. With properties of both, the Bottlerocket was a choice. Now dealing Specialized at my shop also included the SXT as a choice. In the end my dcision was I was building this bike for places like Highland Mountain Bike Park. I wanted more of a FR hucker. Hearing the stories and seeing first hand the breakage on the chain stays on the SXT pushed me to the Bottlerocket. I must say that this is the best bike I have ever built/owned besides my Demo. Simply put the BR handles everything the Demo can but corners and jumps better. The bike feels like it has 8 inches of travel. I absolutely love it.

    I am now rebuilding the Vagrant frame as the geometry is close to the BR in terms of tt length and feel.

    Thanks for letting me ramble on and on....... Few pics:





  52. #52
    Do it with style
    Reputation: EVIL E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zachdank
    Yeah, like when pretty much, every single 2005 Demo8 broke in the same exact place, and specialized refused to do a recall, even though they admited that it was clearly a manufacturers defect. All the guys who had bought a 2nd hand Demo 8 that year, were left out in the cold.
    Give me a fycking break.

    I'll take a rider owned company anyday of the week. The 2 guys that own Transition bikes have already proven themselves to have CS of the highest level.
    i bought a 05 demo 8 second hand and it broke in the same spot and they sent me a 06 demo eight two 4 dayz later no haggles or questions. my p3 with a ovalized head tube iz another story. i support the small companies more though.

  53. #53
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    What about the Preston FR? Too AM?
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPb100
    What about the Preston FR? Too AM?
    yeh i was looking for more travel. It sounds like im going to stick with the bottlerocket. Ive spoken with kevin, and I have an email in to him about build kits. I asked him how much the build below would cost, minus the cranks. Any other build suggestions?
    Thanks for all your help.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  55. #55
    Who are the brain police?
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    The 05 shock issue is just like the chainstay issue you mentioned... it hasn't been an issue for me.
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  56. #56
    hands up who wants to die
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    Where do you ride Edray?

    I would ride an SX Trail at my local mountain - Diablo - long before considering the Bottle Rocket.

    At Whistler or other smoother places out West, it might be more of a toss up.

    -r
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  57. #57
    East Coast Style
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    Quote Originally Posted by edray
    yeh i was looking for more travel. It sounds like im going to stick with the bottlerocket. Ive spoken with kevin, and I have an email in to him about build kits. I asked him how much the build below would cost, minus the cranks. Any other build suggestions?
    Thanks for all your help.
    id just maybe look into getting a shorter caged deraileur. sram med n short ive had no problem with, but long cage ive broken a lot. its not the most prime for freeride/dh. otherwise it looks sweet
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  58. #58
    no big deal
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    another vote for the bottle rocket
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  59. #59
    SamIAm
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    if its a park bike why on earth would the suspension design really have to do anything with performance. i mean, its not like you need to be pedle efficient.

    but if ur going to want to FR and whatnot more the sxT is awsome, i just picked up on 05 with a brand new rear end, cuz it snapped, of course. and it is ****in amazing, and its pretty easy to throw around too.
    <(*-*<) Go Ride (>*-*)>

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