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  1. #1
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    Super T Or Boxxer Team?

    Super T Or Boxxer Team? Pros And Cons? Any People Have These Forks On Bighits?

  2. #2
    the ultimat minky-boodler
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    go with a super t less maintenance and better looking I also know that they are very reliable I'm not sure about the boxxers
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  3. #3
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    Super T.

    1 in 20 boxxers feel good - the rest suck bum.

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    As I've stated before...

    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    ...get a Super T....most people can't be bother to take the time to setup a Boxxer (too much work).

    Boxxers are good forks if you have the mental capacity to deal with setting them up and maintaining them, but if not well then your SOL. Most people don't and thats why they get bad reviews and people tend to bad mouth them so much. Plus the fact it's not "COOL" to have a Boxxer.

    The thing thats so appealing about Marz forks is that any idiot can set one up. Check the spring rate, check/adjust your oil, adjust your settings (preload/rebound/compression) and your good. Maintenence is even geared more towards the weak minded (or lazy depending on your perspective), simply change the oil once a year and your set, unless by chance your seals are bad but that's highly unlikely.
    For the record I love my PUSH'd 7" 05 Boxxer Team.

  5. #5
    bpuodt
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    As I've stated before...


    For the record I love my PUSH'd 7" 05 Boxxer Team.
    What does push do to it? Port it?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    As I've stated before...


    For the record I love my PUSH'd 7" 05 Boxxer Team.
    I agree...One of my friends runs a stock 05 boxxer ride--Feels like ****--stiction, not very plush, very rough through the travel...My other friend runs a 03 world cup which he spent loads of time to properly tune it and it feels great---BUT---cant go wrong with a super T. less trouble, more reliable, easy to set up, and its much more at home on a bighit then a boxxer would be.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master_Jako
    I agree...One of my friends runs a stock 05 boxxer ride--Feels like ****--stiction, not very plush, very rough through the travel...My other friend runs a 03 world cup which he spent loads of time to properly tune it and it feels great---BUT---cant go wrong with a super T. less trouble, more reliable, easy to set up, and its much more at home on a bighit then a boxxer would be.
    Well the differnce between your two buds forks is night and day, the WC & Team both have compression, which as I've found out recently makes a BIG difference in the feel of a fork.

    And as for your comment about the Super T being more at home on a Big Hit than a Boxxer, quit talking out of your @ss. Both forks work quite nicely on the Big Hit, as do Shivers, Monster T's & 888's.

  8. #8
    Chillin the Most
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robot Chicken
    What does push do to it? Port it?
    Ancient chinese secret. I honestly do not no for sure, but whatever it is it definitely makes a big difference over the stock setup.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    As I've stated before...


    For the record I love my PUSH'd 7" 05 Boxxer Team.
    Red is the love child of Archie & Oscar....





    I like idiot proof stuff, so that's why 9 out of 10 idiots like me run Zoke's.......Super T.
    Besides Zoke's customer service has been very nice to me.
    "Korash your enemiez, zee zem driven bevore you, and ear ze lamentation of za vemen"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by e[i
    o]Red is the love child of Archie & Oscar....





    I like idiot proof stuff, so that's why 9 out of 10 idiots like me run Zoke's.......Super T.
    Besides Zoke's customer service has been very nice to me.
    Well now there's a convincing argument as to why Marz is better?!?!? My comments weren't in the least bit spiteful, just being honest. Marz makes great products, then so does RS. The difference is Marz is easier to maintain and less susceptable to issues because they don't require as much maintenence as a Boxxer. However, that doesn't make Boxxers bad forks, Boxxers that are well maintain seem to have very few issues as well. Granted RS did have some porting issues in 02-03, but those were sorted out and the 04-05 forks are great, if well maintained. All I'm saying is I'm not afraid or lacking the intellegence to work on my own forks, which it seems some riders are.*


    * Some riders = a generalization, not intended to point out a particular rider, but a goup of unnamed specific riders, that one may or maynot fall into.

    I don;t know why you think I'm always so angry??? There are some nice things about OHIO too ya know, it's not all bad.
    [/i]

  11. #11
    the ultimat minky-boodler
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    jus get a super t, boxxer's are a pain in the bum
    MOUNTAINBIKE MILITIAMEN,
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    As I've stated before...


    For the record I love my PUSH'd 7" 05 Boxxer Team.
    #1 Dont like Boxxers because of the feel, not frequency of maintenance.

    #2 Marzocchis are MORE tunable - not easy forks, just durable and dont require constant attention to perform consistently and solidly.

    #3 I have seen innumerable Boxxers with broken arches - While I have also seen some Super T's broken - the frequency is insignificant.

    #4 you note your PUSHED boxxer, because RS damping sucks the wazoo - I want suspension on my bike, not a lightweight pogostick.

    #5 I ride whats good and dont give 2 ships for brand loyalty, fashion, trend, or bandwagon. RS has sucked for years, altho are looking on the ups in 05 (Reba, Pike)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Banzai
    #1 Dont like Boxxers because of the feel, not frequency of maintenance.

    #2 Marzocchis are MORE tunable - not easy forks, just durable and dont require constant attention to perform consistently and solidly.

    #3 I have seen innumerable Boxxers with broken arches - While I have also seen some Super T's broken - the frequency is insignificant.

    #4 you note your PUSHED boxxer, because RS damping sucks the wazoo - I want suspension on my bike, not a lightweight pogostick.

    #5 I ride whats good and dont give 2 ships for brand loyalty, fashion, trend, or bandwagon. RS has sucked for years, altho are looking on the ups in 05 (Reba, Pike)
    #1 - So you admit you can tune a fork. OK, I'd beleive that. No ones perfect.

    #2 - Again, so your too lazy to maintain your equipement. Thanks for making my arguement for me again.

    #3 - First year the 888 was released, I saw 4 broken arches at Big Bear spanning a 3 month period. Whats your point? Where you trying to say Marz forks don;t break??

    #4 - The damping in my PUSH'd Boxxer is still all RS, just it's been tweaked beyond what a normal mech. could do. My 03 Monster T had to be revalved my Marz when I got it, does that mean it that the stock internals are bad?

    #5 - As you previously pointed out, your lazy and ride whatever requires the least ammount of intellect from you to deal with. Me personally, I like knowing that my fork will never have to go back to RS if something goes wrong, I can fix it myself.

    Thank you again for helping to make my points for me. Having been a previous Marz owner, Monster T, Shiver, Jr.T, I know what your talking about, but that still does not dimish the fact that 04 and later Boxxers can be on par with the feel of a Super T if it is setup correctly, which I'm sure can be done at home. PUSH didn't add anything to my fork or change any internals, but I've had several (surprised) people tell me it feels alot like a Super T.

  14. #14
    I railed it like Kong
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    Thread Jackers are fun, eh?
    Last edited by Arkon; 07-02-2005 at 03:30 PM.
    I'm UNIQUE... just like everybody else.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    I don;t know why you think I'm always so angry??? There are some nice things about OHIO too ya know, it's not all bad.
    [/i]

    "Korash your enemiez, zee zem driven bevore you, and ear ze lamentation of za vemen"

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    but that still does not dimish the fact that 04 and later Boxxers can be on par with the feel of a Super T if it is setup correctly, which I'm sure can be done at home. PUSH didn't add anything to my fork or change any internals, but I've had several (surprised) people tell me it feels alot like a Super T.
    Why would you want to work on your boxxer to make it a like a super T when you can just get a super T?? I came to think it was because boxxers are lighter and cheaper??
    Just thought it was interesting that you chose the boxxer instead... They are better looking than the super IMO....
    Dont want to start another argument... Becuase you will obviously win
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Why would you want to work on your boxxer to make it a like a super T when you can just get a super T?? I came to think it was because boxxers are lighter and cheaper??
    Just thought it was interesting that you chose the boxxer instead... They are better looking than the super IMO....
    Dont want to start another argument... Becuase you will obviously win
    Two reasons and if you read my previous post you already know one.

    #1 -I prefer to work on my own stuff, not have to send it back to the mfg or take into a shop and wait 2 weeks to get it back.

    #2 - Because the tire clearance on the Super T SVCKS. Largest tire a 2.5, please?!?!? If I can't fit a 2.7 with good clearance, it's a deal breaker.

    So now I have everything. Tire clearance, simple easy maintenance and good damping on par with any Super T.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    Two reasons and if you read my previous post you already know one.

    #1 -I prefer to work on my own stuff, not have to send it back to the mfg or take into a shop and wait 2 weeks to get it back.

    #2 - Because the tire clearance on the Super T SVCKS. Largest tire a 2.5, please?!?!? If I can't fit a 2.7 with good clearance, it's a deal breaker.

    So now I have everything. Tire clearance, simple easy maintenance and good damping on par with any Super T.
    Tire clearance is ridiculous... My 03 BARELY clears my panaracer 2.4... and it rubs all the time which is eating at my arch...
    Thanks for clearing me up..
    Jake
    Yeti 303 WC 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Didn't you read the sticker on that shock? It said not to do whatever you did.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    Two reasons and if you read my previous post you already know one.

    #1 -I prefer to work on my own stuff, not have to send it back to the mfg or take into a shop and wait 2 weeks to get it back.

    #2 - Because the tire clearance on the Super T SVCKS. Largest tire a 2.5, please?!?!? If I can't fit a 2.7 with good clearance, it's a deal breaker.

    So now I have everything. Tire clearance, simple easy maintenance and good damping on par with any Super T.
    You obviously have a bias and will pull out all stops to defend it.

    Super T = Stronger, More durable, Equal or better performance without constant maintenance (thats called sensibility, not laziness) - Boxxers advantage was always weight and low A to C so found its way onto race bikes + it was the furst serious DC DH fork and folx got used to em.

    If you prefer it, then bravo - I wouldnt claim it sucks, but the 4 broken 888 claim is a super stretch.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Banzai
    You obviously have a bias and will pull out all stops to defend it.

    Super T = Stronger, More durable, Equal or better performance without constant maintenance (thats called sensibility, not laziness) - Boxxers advantage was always weight and low A to C so found its way onto race bikes + it was the furst serious DC DH fork and folx got used to em.

    If you prefer it, then bravo - I wouldnt claim it sucks, but the 4 broken 888 claim is a super stretch.
    I'm not biased, I just hate the fact that people bash Boxxers because of there own inabilities.

    And the 4 broken 888's claim is reality, sorry. Sh!t happens.

  21. #21
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    I have an 04 Super T and have had to very little maintenance other than changing the oil. I have great tire clearance (2.7 no worries) and they are plush as a plush thing

    But ... I must be stupid because I could have bought a Boxxer, sent it away to be PUSHed, then tweaked it some more and I could have the plushness of my Super ... what a fool I am.

    I think it is you red5 who is talking out of your ar$e!!! You don't even know what PUSH did to your fork as your clearly state - are you missing some mental capacity???

    What fork people ride is hardly a reflection of their intelligence - grow up

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    I'm not biased, I just hate the fact that people bash Boxxers because of there own inabilities.

    And the 4 broken 888's claim is reality, sorry. Sh!t happens.

    Broken Arches? I've never heard of a 888 arch going.....around the axle yes, arch no.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    I'm not biased, I just hate the fact that people bash Boxxers because of there own inabilities.

    And the 4 broken 888's claim is reality, sorry. Sh!t happens.
    The only way to interpret that is that you must feel I am incapable; which is a personal attack. I assure you I am a fantastic mechanic and have been for >20 years, am far from lazy, and more than capable. I do not know you, and dont care to make assumptions as to what your experience is or who you are - however I speak from experience, and have aged, or rather matured, enough to seek the best products and performance unimpeded by brand loyalty, bias or defensivess. I am meticulous and love to wrench, putting in enormous time to tune my bike and keep it in perfect condition; I would go to any extent to eek the best performance from my equipment, at the same time I will not waste time for the sake of wrenching -- why should I waste time maintaining my boxxer to keep it feeling as good as a Super T when I can have the Super T feel that way without the work? Regardless of any other comments in here your own statement that, (and I quote)

    "that still does not dimish the fact that 04 and later Boxxers can be on par with the feel of a Super T if it is setup correctly, which I'm sure can be done at home. PUSH didn't add anything to my fork or change any internals, but I've had several (surprised) people tell me it feels alot like a Super T."

    lets accentuate the "can be on par" - and expand from there...<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

    I would venture to guess that I am in all likelihood more capable of tuning equipment, but that would be an assumption. I dont bash boxxers, RS has more than earned its reputation and are only just starting to address it. Properly tuned boxxers and SID's have been their only saving grace for 5+ years; horrendous damping destroyed the Boxxer for 02-03, 04 was 'uninspired' and 05 finally implemented necessary redesign.

    I never bashed the Boxxer, unless you are sensitive about the fact that they are VERIFIABLY finicky and high maintenace (Your own comments speak to this). YOU called people inable (incapable) and lazy rather than elaborate on the superiority of your choice.

    If you're frustrated about the 'argument', drop it; dont take to attacking your opposition - prove your point.




    My thread jacking Super T crusade is now officially over.

    vous avez obtenu servi
    Last edited by Huck Banzai; 07-03-2005 at 04:50 AM.

  24. #24
    bpuodt
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    I think anyone who says a Boxxer is equal to a superT have never tried both forks. The super T is just more silky smooth feeling, period. It is also stronger. I've seen plenty of broken lowers on boxxers, and only several broken superTs. The lowers on the boxxer were designed for one thing only, low unsprung mass. They have no durability AT ALL. The lowers on the superT are much thicker and very rarely snap or get punctured.

    The super T has seen plenty of red bull rampage, which is impressive enough.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robot Chicken
    I think anyone who says a Boxxer is equal to a superT have never tried both forks. The super T is just more silky smooth feeling, period. It is also stronger. I've seen plenty of broken lowers on boxxers, and only several broken superTs. The lowers on the boxxer were designed for one thing only, low unsprung mass. They have no durability AT ALL. The lowers on the superT are much thicker and very rarely snap or get punctured.

    The super T has seen plenty of red bull rampage, which is impressive enough.
    uhhh.... i have been on both on the same terrain and the boxxer (with compression damper and tuned by the factory wrenches) is a MUCH faster fork. fast enough to hit large rhythm jumps built by bmxers. fast everywhere. and hits big drops with less bottoming when properly setup. the super t is plusher. the super t lowers are stiffer. but the boxxer teams and wc's are better race forks for sure. the super t is better for all around freeriding but i like my 03 boxxer team because its progressive enough to hit large rhythms yet also corners like on rails. if only rock shox made their forks with an air spring (oh wait thats coming soon).
    i have owned way more marzocchi forks than rock shox and i prefer marz. but the boxxer is a faster dh fork than any marz fork ive been on (cornering mainly but 'scoots' out of a landing as well with amazing quickness).
    the only drawback here? boxxer team and wc's that are not sent back or wrenched at a national wont feel like mine or red 5's. i got lucky. 300 smackers for mine from lee mccormack of leelikesbikes.com. he is 180 lbs and had the fork tricked out by rock shox. i am 168 lbs and its perfect. when lee blew out his dorado xworks he wanted me to give the boxxer back. sorry but i fell in love in two sessions.
    considering that 888's and fox 40's also need factory love to fit their owners' needs this quirk should not make the boxxer seem so unique. motocross gurus always trick out their forks.
    Divide Bike Bags

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by zutroy
    Broken Arches? I've never heard of a 888 arch going.....around the axle yes, arch no.
    Yep broken arches. Amazing as it may be, it can happen.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robot Chicken
    I think anyone who says a Boxxer is equal to a superT have never tried both forks. The super T is just more silky smooth feeling, period. It is also stronger. I've seen plenty of broken lowers on boxxers, and only several broken superTs. The lowers on the boxxer were designed for one thing only, low unsprung mass. They have no durability AT ALL. The lowers on the superT are much thicker and very rarely snap or get punctured.

    The super T has seen plenty of red bull rampage, which is impressive enough.
    I have ridden a couple Super T's, as well as Monsters, Shivers, Jr.T's, White Brothers (newer DH 1.8's), 02-05 Boxxers, 888's. And that's why I can say my Boxxer feels very equal to a Super T.

    To the point of Super T's # RB, I've seen Boxxers at Redbull as well.

  28. #28
    Jm.
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    Boxxer; Internals designed like and work like 1970s motorcross forks, ported damping (like marzocchi's SSVF on their cheap forks).

    Super T; Internals designed like and work like 1990s shimmed cartridge forks, newer forks like the 888 and bladder-damper AM1 are more akin to motorcross technology in the 2000s.
    Last edited by Jm.; 07-03-2005 at 12:10 PM.
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    Boxxer; Internals designed like and work like 1970s motorcross forks, ported damping (like marzocchi's SSVF on their cheap forks).
    Well my Boxxer sure doesn't feel anything like any SSVF fork I've ridden.

  30. #30
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    Well my Boxxer sure doesn't feel anything like any SSVF fork I've ridden.
    Classic giveaway is the lack of compression and rebound control that boxxers have had over the years, to avoid spiking, they enlarge the ports, but it makes the fork rely on an overly stiff sping and gives you pathetic rebound control. They made it better recently, but the rebound range is still nowhere near what other forks have, and this is the reason. So yeah, it works just like a ported-damper design because that's what it is. It was always great on drops and jumps, which are relatively slow speed impacts and where ported damper designs work decent. Now, that aside, another huge problem is the lack of progressiveness. When using springs that "did not bottom out" my boxxer, I never had anywhere near the recommended sag, which was somewhat of a pipe dream. The boxxer doesn't have progressiveness designed into it, so it rides much harsher than many other forks irregardless of the damping system. The 7" marzocchi forks like a super T can be set up to sag 2" into the travel, and still ramp up so that they won't bottom out. The boxxer doesn't do this. A progressiveness adjustment to controll bottoming is simply critical in any performance suspension equipment, and the reason is that different riders ride at different levels, even if they may weight the same. So on a boxxer, a rider that rides really hard may need heavier springs than someone that does not, but that rider will have a much harsher ride to contend with as a side-effect of using stiffer springs. On a fork with a progressiveness adjustment the harder rider can increase the progressiveness a little (add oil) and still preserve the same soft-bump-absorbing travel that he is used to, and also get bottom out control without having to buy stiffer springs.
    Last edited by Jm.; 07-03-2005 at 08:57 PM.
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

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