Is this spiking?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Is this spiking?

    Today when I went down the straight stretch at the bottom of diablo (lots of loose 1-3in rocks) my boxxer was acting weird. It felt like it was bottoming but I could see that it wasnt going through all of the travel, kind of like it was stopping midway through and it was killing me. Is there any way to fix this?
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by saviorself
    Today when I went down the straight stretch at the bottom of diablo (lots of loose 1-3in rocks) my boxxer was acting weird. It felt like it was bottoming but I could see that it wasnt going through all of the travel, kind of like it was stopping midway through and it was killing me. Is there any way to fix this?
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  3. #3
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    its called stacking up i beleive. not an expert, but yeah its cuz of rock shox' crappin dampening. buy a super t........ like me

  4. #4
    Chillin the Most
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    yeah that sounds about right, should have bought a Team or WC. The Race is Rock Shox equivalent to a Jr.T. You can upgrade it to a Team, just need to purchase the Compression Damper assembly. Also, if your rebound has had it yet, you should upgrade with the Black Box parts.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSherpa
    Buy a SuperT
    no thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    yeah that sounds about right, should have bought a Team or WC. The Race is Rock Shox equivalent to a Jr.T. You can upgrade it to a Team, just need to purchase the Compression Damper assembly. Also, if your rebound has had it yet, you should upgrade with the Black Box parts.
    the people at rockshox said the 2004 cames with blackbox. any ide where i can get the compression damper?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by saviorself
    no thanks

    the people at rockshox said the 2004 cames with blackbox. any ide where i can get the compression damper?
    straight from rockshox??? just a guess

  7. #7
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    how do you get rid of it? wil the compression damper do it?
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  8. #8
    Knolly Bikes for life!!!
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    Correct me if I`m wrong,but spiking I think is when there is no or not enough rebound damping and the fork tops out.I think.Stacking I believe is what you are referring to.But then again there are plenty of peeps on here who would know otherwise.
    Like my Grandma always said,"Why buy the cow when you can get the sex for free?"

  9. #9
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    yeah that sounds about right, should have bought a Team or WC. The Race is Rock Shox equivalent to a Jr.T .

    No, the WC and the Team are also the equivalent of the Jr T, because all 3 forks use pumping rod dampers, aka ported dampers, aka what marzocchi calls "ssv/ssvf". If you want shimmed dampers like in a motorcross cartridge fork, you need a fox, higher end marzocchi, or TPC damped manitou.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by [SBF]SaSQuATCH
    Correct me if I`m wrong,but spiking I think is when there is no or not enough rebound damping and the fork tops out.I think.Stacking I believe is what you are referring to.But then again there are plenty of peeps on here who would know otherwise.
    Coming from off road motorcycles and now having ridden "real" mountainbikes for a decade, my understanding of spiking is a compression damping problem. The fork will not compress properly because of poor oil flow and poor oil control under rapid and successive hits. It's akin to a hydraulic lock because the damper is not "keeping up" with the needed flow of oil during the compression cycle. Ported dampers (SSV) don't have the ability to change their operation substantially when the oil flow speeds up, such as during rapid, successive hits. If you dynoed a fork with ported dampers, the graph would show a point in the cycling test where the speed of the cycles would overwhelm the damper's ability to flow oil in a controlled manner and basically hydraulic lock...hence there would be a spike in the graph plot and hence the description, "spiking"...at least that's the basic description I've always seen. I believe the term for a lack of rebound is just the plain term, "topping out", as you stated. Too much rebound, which doesn't let the fork extend properly or quickly enough to take the next hit, is referred to "packing up". I'm not aware of that term, "stacking up", as it relates to suspension...just may not have heard that one. We usually referred to "stacking up" as a nose-in crash on a set of jumps where you don't make the crest or down-side of the next hump while in the air...hit he face of the hump instead...also sometimes referred to as "casing a jump", where you hit so hard into the face of a jump that your dirt motorcycle bottoms out so hard that the crankcase hits the ground. However, not everyone may use the same language...LOL!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by saviorself
    Today when I went down the straight stretch at the bottom of diablo (lots of loose 1-3in rocks) my boxxer was acting weird. It felt like it was bottoming but I could see that it wasnt going through all of the travel, kind of like it was stopping midway through and it was killing me. Is there any way to fix this?
    check your rebound. its probably packing because of too much rebound. back out the adjuster until the fork tops out. then turn it back in 1/16 a turn until you like it. get the rebound valve base assembly installed to improve performance. 5wt oil is standard for the rebound side of the fork. 3wt can be used to get more range out of the adjuster (to the faster end of the spectrum. 7.5 or 10 would slow down the rebound) but the base valve upgrade is usually a better way to go. 190-200cc is correct oil height. too high and the fork can pack (unlike marz rs seals cannot handle higher oil heights).
    if you have heavy (red) springs that may be an issue but its usually too much rebound. you can also get the bb compression upgrade and fiddle with the comp. oil (stock 15wt). and if you go to a race rs tech will do this for you at a parts only price.
    when done right a boxxer is a world class fork (fastest fork with the least unsprung weight i have ever been on. and with the internal compression adjusted i can hit super tight rhythms and drop 12-20 feet no problem). but the cost of doing this may outweigh the benefits. i got mine from an anal racer type for 300 clams and it blows away my old super t and monster t in performance (the lowers are very light though and i notice a little flex compared to a 01 monster. but it outcorners the monster in a way i can only describe as ridiculous. all dh races are won in the corners and thats why the boxxer has won more pro races than any other fork). but you would probably save money and time in the end if you sold the fork and just bought a marz. boxxers can be fickle and hard to adjust. when set up right they rule the dh race world and handle red bull rampage courses. but in the hands of an inexperienced tuner they can blow pretty hard too.
    you could also have a broken bushing. packing up can also feel like static lock out. and lock out can happen under various conditions including a broken bushing. pull off the lowers and check your bushings if the rebound adj. fails to improve performance.
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  12. #12
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    the rebound screw is all the way in which is towards the turtle setting. but why does it fell like it dowsnt adjust anything, its just a normal screw going into a hole, which means if i wanted the rebound to be faster some of the screw would be exposed and the washers would not be tight against the fork to seal it. should i add more spacers?
    Last edited by saviorself; 07-17-2005 at 07:20 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    No, the WC and the Team are also the equivalent of the Jr T, because all 3 forks use pumping rod dampers, aka ported dampers, aka what marzocchi calls "ssv/ssvf". If you want shimmed dampers like in a motorcross cartridge fork, you need a fox, higher end marzocchi, or TPC damped manitou.
    I think you missed my point, the Team & WC don't have the spiking issue that the Race faces.

    I don't care if the damping technology in the Team & WC are both comparable to the Jr.T, they are completely different in ride characteristics. As I've said before my Team feels nothing like a Jr.T, not even closely, so stuff it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by saviorself
    the rebound screw is all the way in which is towards the turtle setting. but why does it fell like it dowsnt adjust anything, its just a normal screw going into a hole, which means if i wanted the rebound to be faster some of the screw would be exposed and the washers would not be tight against the fork to seal it. should i add more spacers?
    HUH???


    I think your confused as to how the rebound in your fork works. It's a port, when you move the adjuster towards the turtle, the adjuster (2.5mm allen key) moves a plastic piece across a port inside the leg, closing the port slowing the movement of oil , which in turn slows the rebound. When you open it (turn toward the rabbit) it does the opposite. Thats all.

    BTW, you can order the compression assem. through your LBS from Rockshox.

  15. #15
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    wow, nevermind
    yeahhh
    Last edited by saviorself; 07-17-2005 at 07:52 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5
    HUH???


    I think your confused as to how the rebound in your fork works. It's a port, when you move the adjuster towards the turtle, the adjuster (2.5mm allen key) moves a plastic piece across a port inside the leg, closing the port slowing the movement of oil , which in turn slows the rebound. When you open it (turn toward the rabbit) it does the opposite. Thats all.

    BTW, you can order the compression assem. through your LBS from Rockshox.
    is it supposed to turn in little clicks?
    ETBW
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by saviorself
    is it supposed to turn in little clicks?
    Nah, no indents or clicking, it just turns freely.

  18. #18
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    i guess i should figure out why it feels like it has indents then?
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by saviorself
    i guess i should figure out why it feels like it has indents then?
    Remember, the rebound adjuster only turns 90 degrees (1/4 turn). The clicking you feel is the allen spinning in the adjuster screw. Lucky it's made of a hard rubber to prevent stripping. Sounds like you need to try more rabbit, less turtle. Rebound rule of thumb: It's better to error towards too fast in the front, and too slow in the rear. Oh yeah, and if it is a boxxer race that yer running, they are completely immune to spiking. At least you got that going for you.

  20. #20
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    yeah i made friends with the rabbit after the turtle decieded to break my wrists. and somehow i managed to strip it but i can still jam a bigger allen in there to turn it becuase it kind of held its original shape
    ETBW
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  21. #21
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    user error, not a boxxer problem (sorry)

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by KobaltBlau
    user error, not a boxxer problem (sorry)
    what part is user error?
    the stacking?
    ETBW
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  23. #23
    e.f.f.e.c.t smoothoperatr
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    No, the WC and the Team are also the equivalent of the Jr T, because all 3 forks use pumping rod dampers, aka ported dampers,

    so i guess sam hill and steve peat and nathan rennie EXT should just swap there boxxers for a JUNIOR t, because there equivalent

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