Single-ply with tubeless?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Single-ply with tubeless?

    I'm interested in trying out tubeless, either ghetto or with Stans. Frankly, I have never had a problem with tubes and flat extremely rarely using Michelin 16 2.5 with XC tubes. However, I was thinking that perhaps tubeless is a good opportunity to lose more than just weight from a tube. Do many (if any) people switch to single ply tires when they convert to tubeless? I don't see why it would be a problem, after all, with no tubes to pinch, would the extra sidewall stiffness help at all? Not to mention, for me, I tend to run decently high pressure to begin with (35-40 psi assuming my pump is accurate) so I wouldn't be too worried about my rims either. Never shredded a sidewall or punctured a tire ever before either. Specifically I was thinking of using my wire bead 2.35 Minions. With the wire bead, the Super Tacky compound, and the decent width, they seem like they would be perfect candidates for tubeless downhilling.

    Pros? Cons? Anyone have experience riding downhill or freeride with tubeless and single ply tires?

  2. #2
    Look at the time!
    Reputation: lelebebbel's Avatar
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    good question. I've thought about doing the same thing.

    My main concern would be tire burping because of the more flexible sidewalls. Anybody with real world experience?
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  3. #3
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    I would at least use a UST tire since their sidewalls are sort of in between single ply and dual ply thickness and they'll set up super easy. With a tube you are essentially adding a ply which stiffens the sidewalls. Without it you may experience more sidewall flex than you'd prefer to have. It can be done and those 2.35 minions would be a great candidate since it's not really a paper thin XC style single ply. I say give it a shot and if you feel it's too sketch with the thin sidewalls pick up some dual ply. I'm running dual ply DHFs front and rear 2.7f/2.5r tubeless using Stan's kit and they're working extremely well.

  4. #4
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    Probably depends on your definition of DH/FR.

    I've run single ply Nevegals for years with ghetto tubeless Stans, but like you I believe in higher pressures >30psi. I'm also pretty light at <160 lbs ready to ride. I've never had any issue. My friends who are a bit heavier, run dual ply tires at lower pressures <30psi and have issues all the time. However, they still have less issues than when they ran tubes. However, single ply with tubes has never worked for my back tire cause I'm not so smooth over sharp rocks. Ghetto tubeless is a great upgrade IMHO.

  5. #5
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    i've ran ghetto tubeless with single ply's for a long time, i currently run the ghetto setup on my hardtail, and the full UST system on my ASX, from my experience for regular FR/XC/DJ etc it's fine, but if your getting into agressive DH or riding extremely rocky terrain single ply's dont really cut it.... you have to run alot of airpressure for the sidewalls to hold up on aggressive DH, without folding over, aswell as i had quite the problems with my tires getting little pinholes all over the tire when i was doing the rocky sections... now the stans would seal it up but the tires were getting damaged so easily that it had a hard time sealing all the holes.. i ended up switching to tubes for the day as when the holes would seal and i went to up the pressure so the sidewalls wouldn't fold they'd crack out the holes again~.

    bottom line light dh and everything else is ok *i'm 200 pounds* if your aggressive go with some dual ply tires and rock the ghetto tubeless.

  6. #6
    Is flexy
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    As others have said single ply tires being run tubeless in very rocky conditions usually ends up bad. I tried it ones with a Fire FR and the sidewall got shredded by the shale at plattekill. A buddy trashed I think 3 single ply nevegals at a shuttle spot we have because the sidewalls just couldn't take it. People love single ply nevegals with stan's and I think it's a sweet combo if you don't have a lot of really rocky terrain.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatfreeheeler
    Probably depends on your definition of DH/FR.

    I've run single ply Nevegals for years with ghetto tubeless Stans, but like you I believe in higher pressures >30psi. I'm also pretty light at <160 lbs ready to ride. I've never had any issue. My friends who are a bit heavier, run dual ply tires at lower pressures <30psi and have issues all the time. However, they still have less issues than when they ran tubes. However, single ply with tubes has never worked for my back tire cause I'm not so smooth over sharp rocks. Ghetto tubeless is a great upgrade IMHO.
    My definition of DH/FR? Well, most of my riding will be on the north shore. Cypress can be a bit rough, and Ned's Atomic Dustbin is a bit rocky, but overall, it isn't all shale or anything. Sounds like with higher psi I might be able to get away with it on the shore. Though I do like to ride hard and I don't ride especially smooth... For what it is worth, I am a bit over 170 lbs without gear and I ride with a loaded up pack (tools, tubes, water, emergency food, first aid, etc.). That being said, I have only flatted on my bike maybe 2 or 3 times after 2 years of riding it.

    I also do ride Whistler a bit, and I would definitely be a bit more concerned, especially with the shale up on Garbo and such.

    Sounds like when I have the time and money I might give it a shot, though I could end up trashing my 721s if it goes badly. The ideal setup would be a set of wheels with single ply for the average ride, then another set with dual ply for Whistler and perhaps Cypress too.

    One last thing... is the Stans setup worth the money? The other route is ghetto tubeless with a lightweight 20" tube and stuff.

    Well, once I get my screwed up Boxxer swapped out for something functional, I'm going to take my big bike for a trail ride with my little bike wheels (I run the single ply Minions on there) and see what lighter wheels feel like on there.

  8. #8
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    I would try ghetto first to see if you like it. Stans strips are sorta pricey if you're just trying it out. The only reason I'm running the strips is because Redbarn Bicycles threw them in with the set of wheels I ordered from them. If it weren't for that I'd be running Ghetto.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatkimura
    I would try ghetto first to see if you like it. Stans strips are sorta pricey if you're just trying it out. The only reason I'm running the strips is because Redbarn Bicycles threw them in with the set of wheels I ordered from them. If it weren't for that I'd be running Ghetto.
    Thanks, I'll look into it when I have the time. The main reason for using Stans would be ease of use and less time needed to figure it out and do it. It is nice to be able to purchase a proven system. Saving money would definitely be nice though.

  10. #10
    Phil from San Diego
    Reputation: Prexus2005's Avatar
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    I've ran single ply kevelar bead Nevegals dtc 2.35 with Stans for one season w/out a problem.. BUT just this weekend, going through a DH section with sharp rocks, my sidewall was punctured. The hole didn't look big at all, more like a thorn had nailed it... but Stans was not able to seal it.

    Ended up having to put in the spare DH tube I carry just for such emergencies. It was messy and I was NOT happy.

    Needless to say, I'm now searching for a tough AND light DH tire..

    Any suggestions/recommendations are very much welcomed!


    Phil.

  11. #11
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    Reputation: chooofoojoo's Avatar
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    If the race course is smooth with not too gnarly rock gardens I used to go kenda nevegal sigle ply... worked like a charm. seriously light weight too.

    but then I found out the pure magic of the pin'it tires... if they made those suckers in single ply i'd run them without a doubt.
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