Saint 20mm front hub & disc ?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Saint 20mm front hub & disc ?

    Seeing that banner at the top of the home page got me curious. I need another 20mm hub front wheel, so I took a look at the info--wasn't very informative. I know about the splined brake rotor system, but I was trying to find out if a 20mm Saint hub with Shimano 8" splined rotor will "line up" into an IS position brake caliper, like say a Hayes caliper. I'm also aware of the adapter system that allows one to run a conventional 6-bolt rotor onto a Shimano splined hub. I don't mind running a Shimano 8" rotor on their splined system as long as it aligns with the caliper. I just haven't seen this clarified in any literature at this point. I wasn't clear on whether the splined rotors would only work and align with Shimano brakes, and that all other calipers and brake systems required the 6-bolt rotors and adapters.
    I also noticed they claim the hubs are cup and cone in that banner info. I find it hard to believe that the 20mm hub is cup and cone--probably just an oversight? Anyone running one of these 20mm front hubs?

  2. #2
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    I think the loaction is the same

    I have a 20mm Saint (not built up yet) front and a rear as well (built up with a 24" Mag30). For the rear hub the disk is in the same position as any other hub (although I need to adjust the caliper slightly for different hubs). To approach it from another direction, my Saint front caliper (and adapter) are being used with a King 20mm hub. Pretty sure you would not have a problem.
    "Without the ability to make moral distinctions based on motive, consequences, the ethical constructs of various parties, everything is equal, and you end up with people like Woody Allen: a tiny speck of compacted narcissism, revolving around the dead sun in an empty universe." - James Lileks

  3. #3
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    They line up just fine , but U cant get an adapter to run 6bolt rotors on Saint hubs
    cuz Saint uses the oversize ( to clear a 20mm axel) splinemount , as opposed to XTR,XT,Hone,LX which used the "regular" spline mount.
    If anybody hears about an Saint >> 6bolt adapter pls post.
    Cheers

  4. #4
    TNC
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    Ahhh!

    Quote Originally Posted by caspar
    They line up just fine , but U cant get an adapter to run 6bolt rotors on Saint hubs
    cuz Saint uses the oversize ( to clear a 20mm axel) splinemount , as opposed to XTR,XT,Hone,LX which used the "regular" spline mount.
    If anybody hears about an Saint >> 6bolt adapter pls post.
    Cheers
    Now that's why I asked. I wanted to know all the curve balls that might be associated with this spline deal. The 20mm and spline adapter noncompliance is something that hadn't even crossed my mind. Thanks.

  5. #5
    TNC
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    Whoa! 8" rotor is $84.

    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    Seeing that banner at the top of the home page got me curious. I need another 20mm hub front wheel, so I took a look at the info--wasn't very informative. I know about the splined brake rotor system, but I was trying to find out if a 20mm Saint hub with Shimano 8" splined rotor will "line up" into an IS position brake caliper, like say a Hayes caliper. I'm also aware of the adapter system that allows one to run a conventional 6-bolt rotor onto a Shimano splined hub. I don't mind running a Shimano 8" rotor on their splined system as long as it aligns with the caliper. I just haven't seen this clarified in any literature at this point. I wasn't clear on whether the splined rotors would only work and align with Shimano brakes, and that all other calipers and brake systems required the 6-bolt rotors and adapters.
    I also noticed they claim the hubs are cup and cone in that banner info. I find it hard to believe that the 20mm hub is cup and cone--probably just an oversight? Anyone running one of these 20mm front hubs?
    Man, at the shop today I figured I'd look into using one of these front hubs in a little more detail. Geez, a Hayes 8" rotor retails for $42 and and a Saint 8" is exactly twice that. I think I'm gonna pass on this setup--proprietary and kind of expensive. It looks like good stuff, but for a front hub, there's not much tech there anyway.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    Man, at the shop today I figured I'd look into using one of these front hubs in a little more detail. Geez, a Hayes 8" rotor retails for $42 and and a Saint 8" is exactly twice that. I think I'm gonna pass on this setup--proprietary and kind of expensive. It looks like good stuff, but for a front hub, there's not much tech there anyway.
    plus the hubs are boat anchors arent they? i dont know what Shimanos love affair with cup and cones is about....
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslingger
    no doubt you must have majored in english or something rad!!!

  7. #7
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    On the cup and cone.

    Quote Originally Posted by zedro
    plus the hubs are boat anchors arent they? i dont know what Shimanos love affair with cup and cones is about....
    Surely their cup and cone is on the rear only, right?--don't see any way for 20mm to be otherwise though their material didn't say anything but cup and cone. Yeah, I'm sure the rear is cup and cone. I agree, I'll bet that rear hub is heavy for sure but probably pretty solid.

  8. #8
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    I think it's still cone-and-cup

    Looks like that from the diagrams in the instructions anyway. And yes, the Saint rear hub is heavy. One thing to consider in Saint hub prices is that the rear hub comes with the 10mm axle for the derailleur ($53) and the front hub comes with the Saint centerlock tool (I think it's ~$14-20). I may sell my front hub (less rotor tool) because I don't need it anymore. The rear hub is working out pretty well so far, it's cheaper than a King or Hadley and I needed the axle.
    "Without the ability to make moral distinctions based on motive, consequences, the ethical constructs of various parties, everything is equal, and you end up with people like Woody Allen: a tiny speck of compacted narcissism, revolving around the dead sun in an empty universe." - James Lileks

  9. #9
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    Wait a minute...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarpon
    Looks like that from the diagrams in the instructions anyway. And yes, the Saint rear hub is heavy. One thing to consider in Saint hub prices is that the rear hub comes with the 10mm axle for the derailleur ($53) and the front hub comes with the Saint centerlock tool (I think it's ~$14-20). I may sell my front hub (less rotor tool) because I don't need it anymore. The rear hub is working out pretty well so far, it's cheaper than a King or Hadley and I needed the axle.
    This is interesting. How the heck do they cup and cone a setup that has to use some other manufacturer's (the fork) axle? Or is this cup and cone system something that's just not coming into focus in my pea brain? All cup and cone systems that I'm aware of thread on the axle to tighten and preload the bearings properly. If the Saint 20mm has cup and cone, it must be something dramatically different. Where did you get to see some diagrams? I'd like to check that out. This has my curiosity going.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    This is interesting. How the heck do they cup and cone a setup that has to use some other manufacturer's (the fork) axle? Or is this cup and cone system something that's just not coming into focus in my pea brain? All cup and cone systems that I'm aware of thread on the axle to tighten and preload the bearings properly. If the Saint 20mm has cup and cone, it must be something dramatically different. Where did you get to see some diagrams? I'd like to check that out. This has my curiosity going.
    think of supersizing an XT hub, where the qr axle hole is 20mm big. Really not all that different from alot of the hubs out there that have internal axles which sit on cart bearings
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslingger
    no doubt you must have majored in english or something rad!!!

  11. #11
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    And we are talking about the front hub?

    Quote Originally Posted by zedro
    think of supersizing an XT hub, where the qr axle hole is 20mm big. Really not all that different from alot of the hubs out there that have internal axles which sit on cart bearings
    I'm sure this will all become crystal clear when I can see one in the flesh. In the pics, I don't see any flats or other adjustment fixtures on the flanges on the outside of hub where you could adjust those cups and cones before inserting a fork manufacturers 20mm axle. Very interesting, but I'm just not seeing it.

  12. #12
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    "Without the ability to make moral distinctions based on motive, consequences, the ethical constructs of various parties, everything is equal, and you end up with people like Woody Allen: a tiny speck of compacted narcissism, revolving around the dead sun in an empty universe." - James Lileks

  13. #13
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    Damn

    I'm definately selling that hub on ebay. This is the first time I noticed you need a special tool to service/adjust it.
    "Without the ability to make moral distinctions based on motive, consequences, the ethical constructs of various parties, everything is equal, and you end up with people like Woody Allen: a tiny speck of compacted narcissism, revolving around the dead sun in an empty universe." - James Lileks

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    Very interesting, but I'm just not seeing it.
    bi-focals maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslingger
    no doubt you must have majored in english or something rad!!!

  15. #15
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    Keeerap!

    Thanks, Tarpon, for that link. It's crystal clear now. Boy, that is one big cup and cone setup. It probably is quite strong, but it seems a little overkill for a 20mm hub--probably quite heavy too. Yeah, I don't like the proprietary issue on some of this--gotta have their tool, gotta have their rotor (at twice the price). Dang, a 20mm cup and cone hub...I'm at least impressed by the effort. Again, thanks Tarpon.

  16. #16
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    Watch it, sonny boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by zedro
    bi-focals maybe?
    I've been to Canada before, so don't make me come up there! I may already have to pay a visit to Jm in Arizona if the DHX doesn't me make happy. BTW, on that Jm/DHX issue, I think you'd better start a Spam conspiracy investigation. The way he's raving about the DHX, I swear he's probably in bed with Fox--illicit kickbacks, money under the table, the whole nasty business...LOL!

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