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Thread: RM vs. Intense

  1. #1
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    RM vs. Intense

    I would have posted this in the "which Bike forum" but I'm sure someone here would have a better perpective. Anyhow I'm purchasing a new bike shortly and have been bouncing around between the 07 RM Switch and the Intense VPX with a similar build.
    I need this bike to pedal well, be around 35#, while still being able to take some abuse.
    I was considering the 6.6 and the RM SXC but I'm not too sure whether those bikes can be jumped or hucked(nothing too serious, maybe 6'-10' to tranny).
    Can anyone give me some feedback on their experinace will the 2?

  2. #2
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    UZZI VPX All The Way!

    Hi, man (Or women..just in case)

    First, of all, lets looks at the differents desings we got

    Rocky Mountain

    SWITCH
    RM are using a desing they from Specialized called FSR linkage on the Switch. I haven't riden any Rocky but I've had a Specialized for three years so I can tell you about the desing. The wheel path is almost vertical means that their's no pedal kickback.

    (Pedal Kickback = Your suspension try to move your pedals backward when absorbing a bump).

    The beauty of the FSR desing is also a linkage that is not affected by brake jack. (

    Brake jack = When breaking, the disc became a renter of rotation for the whole suspension. Because of that, the suspension became stiff and do not use all the travel when braking.

    SVX
    The desing they use on the SVX is a virtual pivot. I'm sorry I can't tell you about it in details but just know that it is lighter and doesn't absorb hits as well as the FSR.

    Intense VPP desing

    UZZY VPX & 6,6
    The VPP desing that Intense developped witch Santa Cruz and is currently sharing with is heavyer than FSR desing but have other caracteristics. I've a M3 working on the same desing so I'll tell you about it. First, the wheelpath can be definited by a "S" meaning that the rear triangle is moving rearward in mid travel and try to move foward at the end. Because of that, the wheel want to rool through obstacles resulting in less power lost caused by obstacles (trying to stall the bike on rocky sections). Also, the pedaling torque will try to pull the whell downward resulting in a incrased traction when pedaling. This type of desing is influenced by brake Jack but it can't be noticed when riding (Minimal brake Jack).

    Now, let's look at the frames

    Switch
    Freeride bike with 178mm rear travel.(ladders, drops, northshore, dh)
    Aluminium is Easton 7005 Tapperwall means thickness in high stress areas are tinner on those who do not receive the same amount of force.
    Bike is made in handcrafted in Canada
    You can put a fork with 180 +/- 20mm of travel.

    SVX
    All mountain bike (lighter than the switch & better traction) with 152mm of rear travel (Trail, obstacles ot 3 foots maximum if you don't want it to crack)
    Aluminium is Easton 7005 Tapperwall
    Bike is made in handcrafted in Canada
    You can put a fork with 160mm of travel.


    UZZY,
    Freeride bike with 7,75'' rear travel.(ladders, drops, northshore, dh)
    Aluminium is Easton 6061 thicker on high stress areas, also move durable than the 7005 aluminium because it is less stiff so the longevity of the frame is better.
    Bike is made in handcrafted in USA
    You can put a fork with 170mm of travel.
    Frame weight 9,2lbs...(heavy but not so much)

    6,6
    All mountain bike with 6'7'' rear travel (can be compared to the SVX)
    Aluminium is Easton 6061 (same than the UZZY but less aluminium)
    Bike is made in handcrafted in USA
    You can put a fork with 145-170mm of travel (without any warranty issues such cracking a head tube..and it can be done ; I had a Specialized enduro 130mm fork max, I putted a 170mm and it cracked after a year but it's the same for all bikes...use the recommended fork travel)
    Frame weight 7,25lbs (lighter)

    Verdict
    I'll tell you about my preferances...If you want a bike able to do anything without worring about durability, get the UZZY first because it pedals so well!. After go on the Switch.) If you are looking for a bike to pedal in woods, goes up and down hills when talking with your wife, get the 6,6...Traction is THE word and this bike is incredibly light)...YOu can also put a longer fork without warranty issues and the bike can be sold easier if you want to change it later...Otherwise, get the rocky SVX. I'll tell you that thses are 4 nice bikes, just pick the one that fit the most your pocket, riding style and also, the one you are sure to do not be tired to look at in a year or so!

    Sorry for mistakes, I'm french! Good byeeee!
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  3. #3
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    One vote for the 6.6. I have one and it's great. I can go for a nice long XC ride one day and go hit 6-8" drops the next. (just change to the FR wheelset) Anyone who says this bike cannot handle medium size drops to tranny is dead wrong.

  4. #4
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    I've never ridden an Intense so I can't comment on that, but the build quality, strength and all around ride of the Switch are first rate. RMB are in my opinion closer to boutique brands than they are to mass-produced bikes like Giant and Specialized. Hand-welded, frames faced, wheels handbuilt and every person that touched the bike during production signs off on it. I absolutely love my Switch.
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  5. #5
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    My 6.6 is 34.5 pounds with Z1 Light up front, air shock, fr wheelset.
    The only way to get the uzzi that light is to compromise the durability of some parts... which
    will probably compromise the intent of the bike.

    You should expect something closer to 38-40 pounds.

    I've seen 6.6 being put through its paces... try considering putting a
    36 or 66 up front, a coil in the back, a solid wheelset and you should be good to go.

    Turner RFX could be bought for cheap right now too.

    I had a RM hardtail (Flow), and their warranty is super short as of late. Something
    to consider....

  6. #6
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    Go with the intense, and the switch is NOT the fsr system specialized uses.

  7. #7
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    uzzi will fit the bill. pedals like a muthafocka and hucks like a banshee.

  8. #8
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    I'm aware that the swith DOESN'T use the FSR design by the big S. I do believe its a single pivot linkage.
    If the 6.6 can handle smaller and medium size drops and jumps than I'll be all over that.
    Will likely put a 66SL on the front and a DHX coil on the rear.
    I like the look of the SXC but I'm a little worried about that carbon seatstay.
    I was considering Turner however no one carries them around here.(Canada)
    I'm still waiting for final pricing on these.
    Thanks for the replies all.

  9. #9
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    the switch is not rockin' teh FSR...
    SOCAL UNION REPREZENT
    Quote Originally Posted by JBsoxB
    does it still qualify as a mountainbike?
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    I've beat beer cans on my limp pee pee.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiDe66
    Hi, man (Or women..just in case)

    First, of all, lets looks at the differents desings we got

    Rocky Mountain

    SWITCH
    RM are using a desing they from Specialized called FSR linkage on the Switch. I haven't riden any Rocky but I've had a Specialized for three years so I can tell you about the desing. The wheel path is almost vertical means that their's no pedal kickback.

    (Pedal Kickback = Your suspension try to move your pedals backward when absorbing a bump).

    The beauty of the FSR desing is also a linkage that is not affected by brake jack. (

    Brake jack = When breaking, the disc became a renter of rotation for the whole suspension. Because of that, the suspension became stiff and do not use all the travel when braking.

    SVX
    The desing they use on the SVX is a virtual pivot. I'm sorry I can't tell you about it in details but just know that it is lighter and doesn't absorb hits as well as the FSR.

    Intense VPP desing

    UZZY VPX & 6,6
    The VPP desing that Intense developped witch Santa Cruz and is currently sharing with is heavyer than FSR desing but have other caracteristics. I've a M3 working on the same desing so I'll tell you about it. First, the wheelpath can be definited by a "S" meaning that the rear triangle is moving rearward in mid travel and try to move foward at the end. Because of that, the wheel want to rool through obstacles resulting in less power lost caused by obstacles (trying to stall the bike on rocky sections). Also, the pedaling torque will try to pull the whell downward resulting in a incrased traction when pedaling. This type of desing is influenced by brake Jack but it can't be noticed when riding (Minimal brake Jack).

    Now, let's look at the frames

    Switch
    Freeride bike with 178mm rear travel.(ladders, drops, northshore, dh)
    Aluminium is Easton 7005 Tapperwall means thickness in high stress areas are tinner on those who do not receive the same amount of force.
    Bike is made in handcrafted in Canada
    You can put a fork with 180 +/- 20mm of travel.

    SVX
    All mountain bike (lighter than the switch & better traction) with 152mm of rear travel (Trail, obstacles ot 3 foots maximum if you don't want it to crack)
    Aluminium is Easton 7005 Tapperwall
    Bike is made in handcrafted in Canada
    You can put a fork with 160mm of travel.


    UZZY,
    Freeride bike with 7,75'' rear travel.(ladders, drops, northshore, dh)
    Aluminium is Easton 6061 thicker on high stress areas, also move durable than the 7005 aluminium because it is less stiff so the longevity of the frame is better.
    Bike is made in handcrafted in USA
    You can put a fork with 170mm of travel.
    Frame weight 9,2lbs...(heavy but not so much)

    6,6
    All mountain bike with 6'7'' rear travel (can be compared to the SVX)
    Aluminium is Easton 6061 (same than the UZZY but less aluminium)
    Bike is made in handcrafted in USA
    You can put a fork with 145-170mm of travel (without any warranty issues such cracking a head tube..and it can be done ; I had a Specialized enduro 130mm fork max, I putted a 170mm and it cracked after a year but it's the same for all bikes...use the recommended fork travel)
    Frame weight 7,25lbs (lighter)

    Verdict
    I'll tell you about my preferances...If you want a bike able to do anything without worring about durability, get the UZZY first because it pedals so well!. After go on the Switch.) If you are looking for a bike to pedal in woods, goes up and down hills when talking with your wife, get the 6,6...Traction is THE word and this bike is incredibly light)...YOu can also put a longer fork without warranty issues and the bike can be sold easier if you want to change it later...Otherwise, get the rocky SVX. I'll tell you that thses are 4 nice bikes, just pick the one that fit the most your pocket, riding style and also, the one you are sure to do not be tired to look at in a year or so!

    Sorry for mistakes, I'm french! Good byeeee!

    umm.... the switch is definetely NOT fsr...

  11. #11
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    I ride a Switch S1 and it takes every thing I throw at. Last summer I went to Mammath and it handled every thing including a lot of the downhill race corse. I also jump it and it is as smooth as it gets. I don't know much about the intense so my vote is for the RM Switch.

  12. #12
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    SWITCH!

    Bah intensxpensive - not better!



    SWITCH HUCK JAM SLAMMY!

  13. #13
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    Guys you makes me sick... I do not ofter answer to questions on this site and I think I'll think about it twice before write a 30 minutes review on a bike just to help somebody, remember that I'm french. It almost makes me jump off my chair when I say a guy telling that the switch was a single pivot bike! Hey it's a four bar linkage bike! Of course I must admit my mistake here, it is not a FSR bike...Sure because rocky would pay to use the rights on the the FRS and a company like thems don't want to pay off an other one just to sell bikes. I must precise something. Here in Canada, Specialized do not own the patent on the FSR bikes. That means company selling bikes in Canada can sell a FSR desing without the need to pay Specialized but if this company wants to sell it in US, they need to pay for the desing. In fact, Devinci were producing two differents sort of bike for FR/DH last year and I think they are still doing. The one in Canada is FSR, the one in US look likes fsr but with a little difference in the pivot spacings resulting in a different desing. Leverage ratios etc... But it works almost like a FSR desing. Same for rocky, their desing works a lot like the FSR desing (a good desing) but it's a little different. I should have compared it to a 4 bars linkage (for thoses who will say I'm false, go here it is writed 4bars SWITCHhttp://www.bikes.com/bikes/2007/SWITCH/switch-1.aspx ... )

    Here's the fact, the switch is a 4-bars desing SIMILAR to the FSR... So don't bother me anymore by treating me on an idiot...Nway you should think about it!
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  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=RiDe66]Hi, man (Or women..just in case)

    First, of all, lets looks at the differents desings we got

    Rocky Mountain

    SWITCH
    RM are using a desing they from Specialized called FSR linkage on the Switch. I haven't riden any Rocky but I've had a Specialized for three years so I can tell you about the desing. The wheel path is almost vertical means that their's no pedal kickback.

    QUOTE]

    WRONG

    The RM does not have a FSR rear end.........FSR has the pivot under the axle not on the seat stay...therefore the RM is more suspectable to Brake jack
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  15. #15
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    Hands down the Intense

    RM has a weak design that was a wet noodle for a long time....they beefed up the linkage but all and all it is still has flex (IMO poor design).....

    Intense make some very stiff rear ends......When riding my M-3 it feels like cheating....it is that smooth
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  16. #16
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    i have never ridden either but RM customer service takes a while casue there in canada,
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  17. #17
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    Ride66,

    Switch is a single pivot w/ a linkage design (yup it's DESIGN... same spelling for French and English).

    my vote: Intense VPX

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiDe66
    Guys you makes me sick... I do not ofter answer to questions on this site and I think I'll think about it twice before write a 30 minutes review on a bike just to help somebody, remember that I'm french. it!

    man that is good you are writing a 30 minute review......just want to make sure you are writing the right thing........

    BTW I would be interested in seeing an FSR RM if you can find a picture
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=SHIVER ME TIMBERS]
    Quote Originally Posted by RiDe66
    Hi, man (Or women..just in case)

    First, of all, lets looks at the differents desings we got

    Rocky Mountain

    SWITCH
    RM are using a desing they from Specialized called FSR linkage on the Switch. I haven't riden any Rocky but I've had a Specialized for three years so I can tell you about the desing. The wheel path is almost vertical means that their's no pedal kickback.

    QUOTE]

    WRONG

    The RM does not have a FSR rear end.........FSR has the pivot under the axle not on the seat stay...therefore the RM is more suspectable to Brake jack
    Hi, Shivermetimbers, maybe can you help me to see where's the difference on the pivot location supposed to be under the seat stay versus under the axle...Look that's my old enduro an a rocky Switch frame...I don't even see where's the single pivot with linkage some peoples are talking about, mabe I'm wrong there but it doesn't make any sense to me to be treated like I'm wrong when I look at theses pictures... PM me if you want.. I don't want to start a war between two M3 riders
    Last edited by RiDe66; 04-06-2007 at 03:12 PM.
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  20. #20
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    I own a vpx and love it. I've beat the piss out of it and love the way it rides.

    I've never ridden one of the newer switch bikes but it's certainly caught my attention as being a really well built bike. I'd say the biggest differences will be in climbing. No design like the switch pedals as well as the vpp rear ends. If it's not something you're spending a lot of time going uphill on, either bike seems like it would be a solid choice.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  21. #21
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    Jlar - IMO I would recommend Intense over RM. I think the VPP Intense bikes pedal better and are well designed and built.

    6'-10' hucks on a 6.6 might be a little ambitious unless you are light, butter smooth and never miss. A beefy 35 lb. 6.6 sounds about right as a very aggressive trail bike/light freeride bike.

    A 35 lb. Uzzi would involve $$$ and parts that may not be 6'-10' huck friendly. Lower your expectations to 38'ish lbs., or....

    I own an Uzzi with 2 wheelsets and 2 shocks. Trail friendly weight is 36 lbs. DH/huck weight is 42 lbs. In trail mode its like bringing a machine gun to a knife fight. I never worry about not having enough bicycle.

  22. #22
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    RIDe66 - I need to work on my karma after today's ride so I hope this answers your questions.

    Specialized owns the patents to the Horst Linkage Design - pivot placement between the chainstay and the dropouts. Suspension with a Horst Link has a rear wheel axle path that is vertical and is theoretically not effected by chain length/growth, chain torque or braking forces. The Horst Link theoretically prevents pedal induced bobbing and prevents the rear brake from extending or compressing the suspension. The FSR design is a Horst linkage with a swing link that attaches between the shock and the chainstay and the frame at the other end.

    A rear wheel axle path that rotates in an arc around a single point is a single pivot design. Single pivot faux bar or rocker arm (Kona, Trek, Turner) designs theoretically act like a single pivot designs (Santa Cruz, Cannondale).

    RM uses a single pivot swing link design. visually this looks like an FSR but theoretically functions like a single pivot because the pivot is between the dropouts and the seatstay and not the dropouts and the chainstay. The rear wheels axle path arcs around a single pivot instead of following a vertical wheel path.

    If you want more detailed info do a search...there is tons of info. on the subject.
    Last edited by rug wheelie; 11-24-2006 at 01:35 AM.

  23. #23
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    [QUOTE=RiDe66]
    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS

    Hi, Shivermetimbers, maybe can you help me to see where's the difference on the pivot location supposed to be under the seat stay versus under the axle...Look that's my old enduro an a rocky Switch frame...I don't even see where's the single pivot with linkage some peoples are talking about, mabe I'm wrong there but it doesn't make any sense to me to be treated like I'm wrong when I look at theses pictures... PM me if you want.. I don't want to start a war between two M3 riders

    no war hear brother...your pictures you can't see too well....so here we go

    here is the RM switch....notice the pivot in the rear is over (on the top side of the axle of the wheel)

    http://www.bikes.com/bikes/bikeZoom....switch_pro.jpg


    now take a look at the Big Hit.......notice how the pivot in the rear is below the axle ...that is the FSR suspension
    http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqu...it%20FSR%20III

    here is the enduro...same thing.... pivot is at the bottom....notice there is no pivot above the axle of the wheel

    http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqu...uro%20SL%20Pro
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  24. #24
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    Next year will be the first year that my lbs will be carrying the Intense line. Unfortunitly I don't think they are bringing in any VPXs as stock so I'll have to pre-order. Most of the trails I ride on are Canadian Shield riding.i.e lots of rock with roots and mud thrown in. Short elevation changs.
    Some trails do warrant a burly bike however most don't.
    I do get out to lift accessed riding a couple of times a year though so thats whats driving me to buy a light freeride bike. Competitive Cyclist has build weights on their website and according to that you can get a VPX built to around 35#. Are they off on their weights.
    Last edited by Jlar; 11-24-2006 at 11:40 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlar
    according to that you can get a VPX built to around 35#. Are they off on their weights.
    absolutely.....within a few weeks I will have my M-3 at 38.5 to 39.5 pounds......I could get it to 37 switching tires.......My frame is heavier then the VPX........you can get it easily to 35 pounds
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  26. #26
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    I rode a 2002 Switch from 2003 until this year, when I bought a VPX. The Switch is a solid, well built frame and the rear end is plenty stiff. It never let me down. The only issue I had with it was that I had to replace the needle bearings in the main linkage after two seasons. I found RM super to deal with and pretty fast as well. They really helped me out with an issue I had with the defective Black Elite that came on the bike. The Switch rides really well in rough terrain, it's pretty smooth. Nimble in tight situations and easy to huck. Not a bad pedaler with a stable platform shock.

    I went with a VPX this year because I wanted to try something different and I got a super deal on it at my LBS. The VPX is also a very well built frame and is solid as a rock. My build is around 39 pounds and I do everything from long XC rides to DH racing on it. It pedals stupidly well for a bike with almost 8" of travel, even without a platform (I turned my pro-pedal off ). It's very nimble in tight situations and corners like it's on rails. The cockpit is actually quite similar to the Switch's. It's a bit short and you're quite upright. I like this geometry because I have short arms.. The BB is lower on the VPX so that took some getting used to, but it aids stability at speed so the odd pedal smack is worth it. The VPX has all the low speed agility of the RM but is more stable at higher speeds (in my mind anyway). It's not as easy to get off the ground as the Switch. The VPP makes it stick to the ground like sh*t on a blanket, so jumping takes a bit more work. The bike's desire to stay stuck to the ground is really confidence inspiring in rough, steep terrain though. It glides over big rocks and roots really smoothly (VPP wheelpath, I guess).

    Haven't had to deal with Intense CS yet, but they seem to be pretty good. I've been abusing my VPX since April and the frame has 0 issues. No creaks or groans, bearings are all fine. All I've done maintenance-wise is keep the pivot bolts tight (they do tend to back out occasionally) and clean the crud off the bearings.

    I think either bike would be a good bet, so try both out if you can.

  27. #27
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    Only have experience with the '06 switch, which is my ride.
    https://members.cox.net/huddy31/P9180001-a.jpg
    Trails here are far from smooth, rather a constant rocky abuse fest.
    The switch has been everything I hoped for.
    With the pro-pedal dialed in there is no pedal bob. I often use the bike to ride to the mountain, and climb single track to the top.
    I've yet to experience anything related to brake jack. My main purpose for the bike is to DH on very tight, extreamly abusive(constant pounding from rocky terrain) and steep hiking trails.
    I have x-c'd it, but have a 23lb hardtail that I perfer for such activities.
    Bike has a WTB saddle(stock on the '07's) and that is the extent of weight savings... I run DH tires and tubes and have added a chain tensioner and shift improver gizmo.
    Bike tips the scales just under 42lbs.
    If you're riding tight, steep, rough downhills and pedaling to the top is a means rather than the intent, you'll be very pleased with the Switch... as am I.
    If you are more into trail rides with some resultant downhilling, there are likely more suited choices.

    Good luck.
    My bike, Slayer 70

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