rear shock 'performance'- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New question here. rear shock 'performance'

    Im just wondering how far rear shock technology has come in the last several years. Ive been wondering about this ever since i read the article in Dirt where they did a 6 page write up on the Millyard bike. It really intrigued me because the author wrote how the bike felt plusher and more controlled than his Orange downhill bike.

    "Why", you ask? Well the Orange is a high single pivot so it does pretty well at absorbing hits due to the rearward axle path. The Millyard bike if im not mistaken basically pivots around the bottom bracket, so in using todays suspension 'logic' it wont absorb hits as well as a system with a rearward axle path. But thats not the case.. supposedly the advanced shock being used works so well that even a bike with the axle path of the Millyard bike can suck it all up just as well.

    Then you have shocks like CCDB and Avy which supposedly transform low chain growth bikes in the same way and let them absorb those same harsh hits like the Orange or VPP or DW or whatever, but without the growing chainstay effect.

    Are aftermarket shocks today really doing what i think they are doing or is it all just hype??

  2. #2
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    today's custom tuned and valved shocks can do wonders to address various suspension design faults.

    Shocks like CCDB, Avy and places like Push Industries really do take suspension performance to the next level.

    Fact is, most aftermarket shocks are built to cater to a wide range of riders and bikes and will never perform as well as a shock that is custom tuned/built for your weight/riding style/suspension leverage curve.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by blender
    today's custom tuned and valved shocks can do wonders to address various suspension design faults.

    Shocks like CCDB, Avy and places like Push Industries really do take suspension performance to the next level.

    Fact is, most aftermarket shocks are built to cater to a wide range of riders and bikes and will never perform as well as a shock that is custom tuned/built for your weight/riding style/suspension leverage curve.

    This i know. But what really interests me is if the high end shocks can really make a low chain growth bike absorb hits like a high chain growth bike??

  4. #4
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    my guess would be yes..
    but i'd wait for someone with first hand knowledge and expertise to chime in

    Darren from Push (PUSHIND) lurks around here, would be nice if he dropped some wisdom on us.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by blender
    today's custom tuned and valved shocks can do wonders to address various suspension design faults.

    Shocks like CCDB, Avy and places like Push Industries really do take suspension performance to the next level.

    Fact is, most aftermarket shocks are built to cater to a wide range of riders and bikes and will never perform as well as a shock that is custom tuned/built for your weight/riding style/suspension leverage curve.
    I agree but want to expand on this.......aftermarket shocks and the shocks that come on bikes are usually generic. Meaning you are getting the same shock for a single pivot, VPP or FSR. most people will not know the difference. Then there are the custom tuned shocks that blow everything out of the water. Currently I am riding a fox 5.0 coil on my Intense M-3 but I felt a Crane Creek and it felt amazingly....I am now wondering what I need to do to get my rear suspension to the next level
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    I am now wondering what I need to do to get my rear suspension to the next level

    Yeah well im in the same boat. Im wondering if a fancier suspension design than what i have is even neccassary when a custom shock can make the changes im looking for!!
    But the whole topic in general is quite interesting. Square edge performance with a low chain growth bike.. best of both worlds imo, active pedalling and great square/chatter/bump absorption. But is it REAL??

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsyCro
    Yeah well im in the same boat. Im wondering if a fancier suspension design than what i have is even neccassary when a custom shock can make the changes im looking for!!
    But the whole topic in general is quite interesting. Square edge performance with a low chain growth bike.. best of both worlds imo, active pedalling and great square/chatter/bump absorption. But is it REAL??
    I really appeciate you posting this....I just called Push Industries and talked with Darren about the subject. He told me for my weight (205 - pads 220) I am over working the shock. They have a custom tune with way more dapening. You would be best talking with Darren and tell him what bike you have, your weight, riding level (beg,intermediate, sport,expert, semi-pro, pro) , what you normally ride, how big of drops, do you need bike to pedal more or strickly downhill. and he will design the shock around that application.

    www.pushindustries.com
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsyCro
    Yeah well im in the same boat. Im wondering if a fancier suspension design than what i have is even neccassary when a custom shock can make the changes im looking for!!
    But the whole topic in general is quite interesting. Square edge performance with a low chain growth bike.. best of both worlds imo, active pedalling and great square/chatter/bump absorption. But is it REAL??
    Push replaces stock pistons in DHXs and Rocos with custom machined pistons that allow for a lot more oil flow. They then custom valve the shock for multi-stage compression and rebound performance. Improving square edge performance while maintaining good pedaling characteristics and small bump sensitivity are their primary areas of focus when re-valving a shock.

    So, I do think that a custom valved shock will give you exactly what you're looking for.. without dropping major coin on some new fancy suspension design frame.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    but I felt a Crane
    Kinky.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by blender
    Push replaces stock pistons in DHXs and Rocos with custom machined pistons that allow for a lot more oil flow. They then custom valve the shock for multi-stage compression and rebound performance. Improving square edge performance while maintaining good pedaling characteristics and small bump sensitivity are their primary areas of focus when re-valving a shock.

    So, I do think that a custom valved shock will give you exactly what you're looking for.. without dropping major coin on some new fancy suspension design frame.
    And to build on that, a shock like an avalanche has a much bigger internal diameter and piston, for much higher oil-flow and sensitivity, it's also a good fix for a high-leverage bike because it increases the oil volume and displacement (as if it was lower-leverage). Because they are custom-valved, you get even better performance if it's not a highly-leveraged bike, but the piston diameter and oil volume is much bigger, also better heat dissipation, etc. The high/low speed adjuster on the avy works pretty well, and it takes the suspension the "next level", although there haven't been any radical advances .
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    for much higher oil-flow and sensitivity, it's also a good fix for a high-leverage bike because it increases the oil volume and displacement (as if it was lower-leverage). ...
    Interesting reading here, thanks.

    IMHO, a shock is designed to WORK WITH a linkage. The linkage being the foundation and the shock is the addition.

    So,
    crappy linkage (0) + custom tuned amazo shock (1) = 1
    Kick @ss Fabuloso linkage (1) + custom tuned amazo shock (1) = 2

    I don't think a shock can "overcome" a linkage's bad points to the point where it is equal or better than a quality linkage with a quality shock.

    A quality linkage with quality shock will always be better than a mediocre linkage with a quality shock.

    P

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P
    IMHO, a shock is designed to WORK WITH a linkage. The linkage being the foundation and the shock is the addition.
    P
    So your saying all those FS bikes out there where the shock directly drives the swingarm are useless? Just sayin cause my 2000 Bullit was one of my favorite bikes ever and that was before platform shocks.

    Granted, my two bikes now are a horst-link DH frame and a VPP trail bike but my Bullit still stands as my favorite bike of all time.

  13. #13
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    I couldn't be happier with what PUSH did for my DHX 5.0



    Check out my full review here:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=456974
    SHAM-WOW

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khemical
    So your saying all those FS bikes out there where the shock directly drives the swingarm are useless?
    Nope. I'm saying that the foundation of the engineering is the linkage, and the shock is built on top of that foundation.

    It does not matter if it is a SP, Horst, VPP; what matters is the quality of the design of X, Y or Z linkage.

    Perhaps linkage is not the best word to use. I mean it to be one or more moving bits on the frame to handle inputs.

    P

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