RaceFace closing...- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    RaceFace closing...

    Heard via Twitter from two sources... One, being Taylor Morland and the other is from Chris Armstrong (WhistlerMTB).

    Links:
    http://twitter.com/#!/whistlermtb
    http://twitter.com/#!/TylerMorland

    Anyone have more info?

  2. #2
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    ? whoa

  3. #3
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    damn. all my rf stuff was sweet.

  4. #4
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    ?? Hope its not true

  5. #5
    REM
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    It's true. I have it from and inside source. But not sure of the circumstances just yet.Things have been rough there for a while.

  6. #6
    Say Car Ramrod!!
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    wow, that sucks.
    I wish my grass was emo so it would cut itself...

  7. #7
    Uphill? What's that
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    Damn. That sucks..I have liked everything I owned from that company.

  8. #8
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    ...bummer
    dig...

  9. #9
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    weird

  10. #10
    I'm SUCH a square....
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    Glad, at least, the stuff is so reliable... gives me time to figure out what I'm gonna replace it with when it all does finally die.

  11. #11
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    sad...and I was going to order a front chain ring.....arrr

  12. #12
    cbc
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    I can't believe it. That's crazy news, and sad.

    Clay

  13. #13
    enjoys skidding
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    Crap news. Hoping the guys get back on their feet either with the same name or something else before long. They made some quality stuff.

  14. #14
    AKA shitbird
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    Damn. I really really like their stuff
    JRA

  15. #15
    "Its All Good"
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    I got a Twitter on it too, hard to believe really... Hope this can be sorted...

    I mean, dam my SixC Carbon Cranks are stunning.... RF make great stuff
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  16. #16
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    This post is from Ride Monkey...

    Quote Originally Posted by John P.
    I wish the situation was as optimistic as Fraser paints it, but we've been told the company is going to be liquidated, and 90% of us are unemployed as of next week. They'll keep a few people on to assist with the liquidation.

    My tenure with the company has been short, but it's been a fun ride. Thanks to all the great athletes, customers, and media folks I've had the opportunity to work with. Thanks also to the amazing group of coworkers I have out here. All of you make stuff like this hurt a lot less.

    --JP

    Sad news for sure.

  17. #17
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    Yep, that would suck.My favorite company at this point, hope they can pull through somehow.

  18. #18
    "Its All Good"
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    Too early I guess, but wonder if the company will be able to trade out of this situation.

    This is pretty significant in an industry that we need to enjoy our apgraditis and addictions of bikes..
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  19. #19
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    That flat out sucks
    Love every single one of my raceface parts, not one issue or problem
    May have to stock up on some extra bits

  20. #20
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    Wow, that really sucks. I've used their stuff on almost every bike I've had and they've always been quality. I'm surprised they're going out of business as usually good products + good price=success.

  21. #21
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    usually good products + good price=success.
    Agree, something has gone down, a serious loss to the mtb component selection availablt to us...

    Price wise they were indeed competitive, and made in Canada.....

    Guess more info will become available in the very near future...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  22. #22
    formerly shabadu
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    Seriously sucks. Their product is so good right now. An awesome option to Sramano.

  23. #23
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    That does blow, I'm don't pretend to understand corporation business but wouldn't they be bought out? I could see any number of companies buying the RF name and product line. They have an excellent reputation...maybe E-thirteen/Hive/RF?
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  24. #24
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    YEA another made in N. America manufacture bites the dust. I bet by the end of the month some big name bike will buy the name and use them as their in house component company and build all the stuff in Asia. Bontrager-lite.

  25. #25
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    RF has been in the game from the beginning, is a house-hold name within the community, makes great products and has a large OEM base.

    Bad management?

  26. #26
    One Colorful Rider
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    Someone will have to Snatch them up.
    My Favorite Grips and most defiantly Cranks

  27. #27
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    l think the quality took a big hit when they started having everything made in Taiwan -- back when it was still made in Canada, the stuff was the shizix!!! some company will buy em up, they'll be back under a new owner or maybe a new name. it's the cycle of life (pun intended).
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  28. #28
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    l think the quality took a big hit when they started having everything made in Taiwan -- back when it was still made in Canada, the stuff was the shizix!!! some company will buy em up, they'll be back under a new owner or maybe a new name. it's the cycle of life (pun intended).

    a while back, l stopped stocking most moving parts (BB's, cranks, headsets, etc) because l was having too many issues with quality control. then l pretty much stopped selling them when they ticked me off for the last time --

    l got a bottom bracket for someone --

    l start with the install --- for the life of me l can get one of the cups to thread into the frame --- WTF? l chase the frame to make sure the threads are nice a clean, they were. l try again, still nothing... l take a closer look at the BB and the thing is threaded in the wrong direction. technically, they printed the lettering on the wrong cup. --- in short, it was like l had two left side cups -- one was marked "right".


    l contacted RF, sent them photos (see below) about it and they insisted l send the whole bottom bracket back to Canada in order to get a replacement. what? really?

    you can see pure as day in the photo it ain't right -- and you want me to return it before you send me another -- screw that. Done with RF.


    as you can see in the photo -- the one on the right is marked "Tighten <----" look at the threads --- they're facing the wrong direction.
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  29. #29
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    Damn. This is NOT what I expected to hear. RF has always been such a cool company with great stuff...
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  30. #30
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    Odd considering they signed Aaron chase like tree weeks ago. News bit on pinkbike says they're done. (insert pinkbike jab here).
    Binary Transition Bikes Demon Dirt

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    Wow, that really sucks. I've used their stuff on almost every bike I've had and they've always been quality. I'm surprised they're going out of business as usually good products + good price=success.

    That's right, good products + good price = success, .......... , in reality, its different.

    This is sad news

  32. #32
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    i kow they had alot of problems early on at the begining of last season with the big nut that pushed the crank arm on and held it in place, , somthing about them being doubble threaded, so when you tried to instal it stripped the threads, my mate tristan at bearback biking stripped 3 trying to fit his new crank, and i heard most of the bike shops in whistler had similar experiance, also dont think race face make anything in canada, it's all done through taiwan,

  33. #33
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    The SixC cranks and many (all?) of their high end rings are made in Canada. There may be other parts but those I know.

  34. #34
    Trail Ninja
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    It's a little early for April Fools, or is the April Fools joke the one where they are being brought back and this is true? I see it on all sorts of big news sites. It's a bit sudden.

    I liked their armor. I have the Flank and the old Roach style arm guards. I was going to get their Atlas gloves too.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    good products + good price=success.
    Good Products = Parts never break
    Parts never break = no new sales.

  36. #36
    Trail Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by UEDan
    Good Products = Parts never break
    Parts never break = no new sales.
    Are you being sarcastic or do you really believe that bull and do you believe it applies to RF? Either way, it's a pointless post.

    Some insight here, mostly from the comments:

    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Race-Fa...the-Doors.html

    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...38#post3605638

    http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=140447

  37. #37
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    Hmm..... They were super successful making aluminum square taper and ISIS cranks and a limited catalog of bars, stems, seatposts. Then they started making 2 piece cranks with a questionable interface, carbon parts, and an ever-expanding number of components in multiple price levels. Maybe they spread themselves too thin, rather than focusing on what they do best?

    Something weird definitely happened to cause such a sudden end rather than the usual downsizing, shopping the name out, ect, cycle of decline. If the details of these rumors are true it doesn't sound like company has any future, short of a revival of the name later ala Ibis.
    Keep the Country country.

  38. #38
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  39. #39
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    that sucks

    wow that really sucks. so what chainrings will work with the atlas FR crankset when the raceface rings are all gone...ralph
    i need to ride more. building jumps takes to much time...my other hobby is kicking the crap outta my home built mook jong.

  40. #40
    ventanakaz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedal Shop
    l think the quality took a big hit when they started having everything made in Taiwan -- back when it was still made in Canada, the stuff was the shizix!!! .
    ...you mean to tell me that their stuff was made in taiwan ? i thought it was made in canada, Was there high end stuff made in taiwan too ? ... ralph
    i need to ride more. building jumps takes to much time...my other hobby is kicking the crap outta my home built mook jong.

  41. #41
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    Didn't see that coming.

    They must have had some pretty massive debts hiding away in the background to just get wound up immediately like that.

    Not like Iron Horse or Titus where everything steadily went to ****, there's still bikes coming in with RF components specced on them.

    What the hell has gone wong for a company with steady OE contracts to people like Orange and Giant to just suddenly go bust?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1962
    wow that really sucks. so what chainrings will work with the atlas FR crankset when the raceface rings are all gone...ralph
    Pretty much all of them, RF cranks use a normal 104mm bcd.

    RE your other comment, there are a lot of Canadian (and American, English etc) brands who will make a big deal of 'place X, our country' when the label on the bottom of the product says 'China'. Without looking at the parts or physically asking the people who make it where their product comes from you can't trust advertising one bit.

  43. #43
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    Closing their doors doesn't really mean that they went bankrupt. It could be some private company that simply had an owner that wanted to put an end to it all. There's no real indication or downsizing to a more focused and efficient business or talks of selling off to show that they were having financial trouble. They kept adding new lines and the new Turbine stuff looked great. They signed new riders recently too. That's why I thought it was an April Fools joke, until I saw all the different sources "confirming" the rumor.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1962
    ...you mean to tell me that their stuff was made in taiwan ? i thought it was made in canada, Was there high end stuff made in taiwan too ? ... ralph

    l don't know if ALL the stuff was made in Taiwan but yeah --- they switched plant locations somewhere around 6, 7 years ago. big stickers on a lot of products stamped "MADE IN TAIWAN" ...


    l wonder why it was so sudden too --
    odd, they pulled out sorta outta the blue, no warning.


    the ripple effect will be pretty big a l bet. All that OE stuff out there on bikes AND all the wholesale companies that stock a ton of their products.

    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Race-Fa...the-Doors.html
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  45. #45
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    I was not expecting to ever see a thread with the words "Race Face" and "Closing" ever. Really? I actually sought out their new Turbine line to build my Blur this winter. It may explain why I haven't been able to get a hold of a Turbine crank. No one has them in stock. Guess I probably never will

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by UEDan
    Good Products = Parts never break
    Parts never break = no new sales.
    Thomson is still in business as an example, so is Chris King. (I know, different business model)

    Not saying RF stuff is as bombproof as that, nor am I saying business is as simple as just having a good product at a good price. Anything can be mismanaged, a company can overreach with debt and so on. But dammit if RF didn't seem to have the fundamentals down.

    My initial thought was early april fools joke as well.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    I'm surprised they're going out of business as usually good products + good price=success.
    Well good products + good service = keeping customers happy.

    But to make a business work its three things...

    good product + good service + profitable

    By the sounds of things, they had 2 out of 3 right.

    I wonder what went wrong?

    If I remember rightly there was some $hit storm in Canada because RF decided to go through MEC direct, and they pi$$ed of the main distributors, and got dropped, I wonder if that had anything to do with it...

    I also have no doubt that someone will pick up the name when they get liquidated... what will they do with it? who knows...

  48. #48
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  49. #49
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    I think raceface was in a tough spot, so this isnt all that surprising to me. What did RaceFace make that was better than truvativ? Truvativ undercut them in pretty much all areas with good products. When it came time for me to get some gravity stuff, truvativ was dirt cheap comparatively and just as good. Shimano drivetrain stuff has had constant improvement and refinement, arguably better products with hollow-forged designs, reliable bearings, no taper-lock design, etc. I think with just shimano and raceface, there was space for both, but with added pressure from truvativ and fsa, they crumbled. Blame SRAM imo (altho they were making their impact before they were bought by sram).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  50. #50
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    sweet. open the door for cheap raceface stuff. i have a lot now and i can use some more.

  51. #51
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    According to a Race Face employee (or former employee), sales were pretty strong for the year already. Maybe he didn't know everything that was going on.

  52. #52
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    All of the high end stuff like the Turbines (anything with the distinctive CNC) was made in Canada.

    They also went to great lengths to make the Six carbon cranks here...they felt if production was shipped overseas the proprietary production technology would be leaked and everyone would have it not long thereafter.

    The OEM products (like Respond) were made overseas because of cost and that is where OEM specing is done; if you are not right 'there', you lose out.

    Handlebars are made off-shore cause no one can compete with Asia for that sort of thing.

    All of this is info I got from their sales rep last year.

    I hope they never whore the name out.
    this space left intentionally blank

  53. #53
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    VERY VERY sad. One of the truly great companies in mtb components. I would be surprised if we don't see the name get revived by someone. Super cheezy to just shut down suddenly with no notice to anyone. Must be something more to the story.

  54. #54
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    This will be a blow. I have so much RF product on my fleet of race bikes
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  55. #55
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    Very sad indeed, I hope someone can save them...

  56. #56
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    Wonder how that'll effect the retail value of all those bikes sitting on showroom floors with potentially unreplaceable RF parts.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodaphuck
    Wonder how that'll effect the retail value of all those bikes sitting on showroom floors with potentially unreplaceable RF parts.

    What unreplaceable parts? Their bottom brackets use the same bearings as every one else, and afaik, the bolt patterns on their chain rings are universal as well (except maybe Shimano), The bolts for their stems are standard, ... Not like their producing frame or brake systems were if some thing needs to replaced, your screwed.
    The guy yo' momma "act" like she don't know!

  58. #58
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    I'll just repeat it again... closing doors does not mean going under or going bankrupt. Race Face could simply be "retiring". There's no point in going too deep into believing that they're gone forever until all the assets disappear. Someone who claims to be an employee says they're liquidating. Closed doors could be easily re-opened if you have all the assets intact.

  59. #59
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    Man this is not good at all....

    Competition breeds innovation!

    Now Shimano and Sram get to play with the prices, and can sit in their laurels as they will have an oligopoly choke on the market.

    Not good!

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evo.
    According to a Race Face employee (or former employee), sales were pretty strong for the year already. Maybe he didn't know everything that was going on.
    Definitely possible, but often the employees are the absolute LAST people that want a company to fail, and the "denial of reality" can often be quite excessive (in terms of failing, reasons, etc).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  61. #61
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    Oh, crap... I really love my Deus cranks and particularly their tough rings.

    Sad to see them go.
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim F.
    What unreplaceable parts? Their bottom brackets use the same bearings as every one else, and afaik, the bolt patterns on their chain rings are universal as well (except maybe Shimano), The bolts for their stems are standard, ... Not like their producing frame or brake systems were if some thing needs to replaced, your screwed.
    I said "potentially". What about those rare warranty returns (see PedalShop's mislabeled bb)?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis
    I'll just repeat it again... closing doors does not mean going under or going bankrupt. Race Face could simply be "retiring". There's no point in going too deep into believing that they're gone forever until all the assets disappear. Someone who claims to be an employee says they're liquidating. Closed doors could be easily re-opened if you have all the assets intact.
    Someone started a thread on our little brother forum last month that he had been told through a connection that Race Face would be filing for bankruptcy soon, and he did specifically mention bankruptcy

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by hozzerr1
    Man this is not good at all....

    Competition breeds innovation!

    Now Shimano and Sram get to play with the prices, and can sit in their laurels as they will have an oligopoly choke on the market.

    Not good!
    Fortunately, there are other players in all of the markets race face was in. e13 is now making a crankset and I know quite a few riders excited about it. Saint is by far the most common crank that I'm seeing on new builds, but I'll bet that the e13s will be increasingly popular. I'm sure the e13 guiderings are more popular than the race face lately. Bars, etc... Deity is getting pretty popular, seeing a lot of blacklabels on new builds. I could go on for a long time, the point is that Shimano and SRAM are far from having a monopoly on any market other than shifters / derailleurs.

  65. #65
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    Pretty good opportunity for Chromag to step up their game in BC (if they choose to do so). But yep as mentioned there are plenty of other competitors - Deity, Spank and so on. Although Race Face really had the OEM market - I guess time will tell if any of these brands can/want to step their product up to the big time.

  66. #66
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    But Chromag wants $120 for handlebars whereas the Race Face Atlas bars can be had for $70. I have not had Chromag bars before, I can't imagine them being more stiff then the RF Atlas bars... idk, maybe they are...
    Last edited by Evo.; 03-13-2011 at 03:44 PM.

  67. #67
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    Personally.....

    I won't be losing sleep over this. Last time I bought anything race face was over 8 years ago. My expensive and new headset blew up and bearings went everywhere and they did not warranty it. I started buying Hope stuff after that and never had a problem after that. Sux, but if you don't take care of your customers over legitimate problems, it will just be a matter of time.

    Next one to go will be Crank Brothers.......I'll actually celebrate when they go....

    But that's another story.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    Someone started a thread on our little brother forum last month that he had been told through a connection that Race Face would be filing for bankruptcy soon, and he did specifically mention bankruptcy
    A guy on f88me.com posted news of raceface going bancrupt a year ago.

    This has been a long time coming and no surprise.

    http://www.f88me.com/showthread.php?...light=raceface
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles
    A guy on f88me.com posted news of raceface going bancrupt a year ago.

    This has been a long time coming and no surprise.

    http://www.f88me.com/showthread.php?...light=raceface
    haha, that's actually what I was referring too as well, somehow I just missed the fact that it last February not last month

  70. #70
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    Quoted from Ride Monkey:

    From what I've heard.
    "Business owner got a huge loan from the bank based on fraudulent inventory valuation statements. With the money, he paid himself a ridiculous wage: >$30k/mo. Bank auditors finally figured out what was up and shut the place down. He's facing a civil suit for the loan (over $3MM) as well as likely facing criminal charges."

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvrathlon
    Quoted from Ride Monkey:
    Yea, I read that today... If that is the case, that would explain the sudden closer.

  72. #72
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    30k/month isn't excessive for a successful medium sized business owner. I know it might sound ridiculous to middle class folks, but its all relative. For instance my boss probably does 15k/month in expenses between airplane payment, hanger, big house, 2 nice cars, boat and slip and so on. And thats a 20 person, 2mil/yr type of company, I think RF is bigger than that, or am I wrong?

    In any case, if that is true, how dumb can you get thinking you can get away with something so retarded forever?

  73. #73
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    Its a bummer. Race Face is one of my favorite companies for components. All their stuff looks sick, lightweight, and function well. I haven't had any problems with their stuff.

    I think a lot a bike companies are feeling the hit. The last few years with all the financial problems with the economy has left too many companies with not enough people buying high end custom bike parts.

    It would be smart for another company like Fox, Cane Creek, Thomson, etc to buy the company and keep the name. I'm sure some companies are looking at them.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evo.
    But Chromag wants $120 for handlebars whereas the Race Face Atlas bars can be had for $70. I have not had Chromag bars before, I can't imagine them being more stiff then the RF Atlas bars... idk, maybe they are...
    That's what I mean by step up. They produce a quality product, but being a smaller brand with higher manufacturing costs their product costs more. If they chose to compete with the bigger players presumably their price would fall in line similar to that of Race Face's.

  75. #75
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    "Why are you willing to take so much & leave others in need...just because you can?"

  76. #76
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    More info here...

    http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/...tail/5219.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Bicycle Retailer

    Banks Shut Down Race Face Operations

    NEW WESTMINSTER, B.C. (BRAIN)—Running into financial turmoil, Canadian component brand Race Face is no longer in business. A receiver took over operations on Saturday and has shut down the company. Race Face’s bankers, Scotia Bank and Roynet, appointed Grant Thornton Limited as the brand’s receiver over the weekend.

    In a letter to Race Face employees dated March 14, Grant Thornton Limited announced that it was terminating all Race Face employees at its New Westminster factory, and at its operations in Taiwan today.

    "As the receiver will be shutting down the operations of Race Face Components Inc. immediately, your continued employment is no longer required and, therefore, the receiver on behalf of Race Face Components Inc., hereby terminates your employment, effectively immediately," the letter stated.

    Calls seeking comment from Grant Thornton Limited were unanswered.

    “It came as a big surprise to all of us,” said John Pentecost, who was Race Face’s component/protection marketing and product manager. “There were about 50 people laid off here in New Westminster today and we were told that another 20 people in Taiwan were also terminated.”

    Pentecost said the banks had taken over and began running the company about four weeks ago. At the time payroll payments were current, although many of the employees hadn’t been reimbursed for traveling expenses and company payments into the Canadian healthcare system were behind.

    “For some of the people traveling to Taiwan and down to the States on sales calls, they are owed $3,000 or more of traveling expenses. I’m owed about $2,000, none of which we will see,” Pentecost said.

    Race Face officials met with creditors and its receiver today. Officials at Grant Thornton said they intend to dispose of Race Face as a single entity and may rehire back some essential employees to assist in the sale of the company.

    Click on above file link to see letter to employees.

    —Matt Wiebe
    [email protected]

  77. #77
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    Lets hope someone buys RaceFace - and continues its great product line.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MondoRides
    Officials at Grant Thornton said they intend to dispose of Race Face as a single entity and may rehire back some essential employees to assist in the sale of the company.]
    So there you go, good chance the company (at least in name) will continue to exist.
    Keep the Country country.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by V.P.
    Lets hope someone buys RaceFace - and continues its great product line.
    Let's hope RaceFace doesn't become the next Bontrager/Klein/Syncros etc.

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    The RF website is still up.... I'd like to see a nice streamlined resurrection. Drop the crappy clothing, armour, ome, and stick with local machining. Viable? I dunno.

  81. #81
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    A streamlined version of the current company that returns to its roots would be sweet but my bet's on it becoming a better managed version of it's current self (high end mixed with price point and mostly Asian production) or a frame maker's house brand.
    Keep the Country country.

  82. #82
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    great, i was planning on getting a bunch of stuff for the as soon as i get a new bike...oh well...
    2009 Jamis Trail X2
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  83. #83
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    Maybe you'll get your stuff cheap, without warranty of course.
    Keep the Country country.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt

    Originally Posted by MondoRides
    Officials at Grant Thornton said they intend to dispose of Race Face as a single entity and may rehire back some essential employees to assist in the sale of the company.

    So there you go, good chance the company (at least in name) will continue to exist.

    I'm reading race face iz no more, period.
    "Why are you willing to take so much & leave others in need...just because you can?"

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by man w/ one hand
    I'm reading race face iz no more, period.
    dispose has a lot of definitions beside "throwing something away", especially in business where it can be just another term for selling something off

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by djball
    The RF website is still up.... I'd like to see a nice streamlined resurrection. Drop the crappy clothing, armour, ome, and stick with local machining. Viable? I dunno.
    Website is gone now. You can still buy RF stuff on PricePoint and other sites like that.

  87. #87
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    If it ain't broken... why the hell you fixin it!

    KONA rules!!

    If you miss the tranny... don't look down.

  88. #88
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    put the flags at half mast...

  89. #89
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    money money money...growth growth growth...F**K! F**K! F**K!

    RaceFace components were on the top of my choice list.

  90. #90
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    Sad. The Flank knee/ shinguards are the best I've found so far...
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by headstrong356
    Scroll up about 10 or 12 posts.
    Media Manager - Coming Soon
    Press Relations - Team Billy Goat Bikes - Mountain Khakis

  92. #92
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    All their products were mediocre, anyways.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
    All their products were mediocre, anyways.
    I have a tough time believing you tried them all if you thought that way.
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    Hay I'm just getting serious into mountain biking and I'm wondering what I should buy for pretty cheap I'm 180 lbs 5 8 any ideas

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    dispose has a lot of definitions beside "throwing something away", especially in business where it can be just another term for selling something off

    With all sincerity, "I hope yer right".

    Latest on Race Face: http://nsmb.com/4240-race-face-official-press-release/
    "Why are you willing to take so much & leave others in need...just because you can?"

  96. #96
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    Doh! Just won a bid on Ebay for RaceFace Next SL bars on the chizzeap. I was going to do a full cockpit setup too, bar, stem post, even grips....

    Sad day for me, as I've pretty much always run RF stuff. Had to have the Turbine LP's when they first came out. I think that crankset hooked a lot of MTB er's in the early 2000s.

    There's a massive swap meet that's going to be held in San Diego in Mid April. Sure you all know about it, but maybe that might be a good place for RaceFace (and it's distributors and retail shops) to liquidate.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by aa240sx
    Doh! Just won a bid on Ebay for RaceFace Next SL bars on the chizzeap. I was going to do a full cockpit setup too, bar, stem post, even grips....

    Sad day for me, as I've pretty much always run RF stuff. Had to have the Turbine LP's when they first came out. I think that crankset hooked a lot of MTB er's in the early 2000s.

    There's a massive swap meet that's going to be held in San Diego in Mid April. Sure you all know about it, but maybe that might be a good place for RaceFace (and it's distributors and retail shops) to liquidate.
    Distributors and shops have no reason to slash prices on their Race Face stock other than customers refusing to pay full price for some of the parts anymore. They've already paid full price to Race Face get the stock they have, so they're going to want to recoup as much as they can.

    The bank who now controls Race Face has to liquidate Race Face's internal inventory and other assets so they can get cash to cover the debts left behind, and things will get liquidated for cheap only because the bank wants to clear up what debts they can ASAP, so someone who can step up early and offer them a good deal for the whole lot will get it. I could definitely see a shop like Jenson buying up a lot of the stock, as they have struck similar deals in the past to buy large lots of old inventory to help out companies or distributors

  98. #98
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    I hear ya, of course I'm not suggesting there be a massive fire sale on RF stuff, but I'm sure that's the arguments the big banks will certainly make as they sit on this asset. I'm optimistic that the brand will live on in some shape or form, right?

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nvrider66
    Hay I'm just getting serious into mountain biking and I'm wondering what I should buy for pretty cheap I'm 180 lbs 5 8 any ideas
    Well, this isn't the thread to get your question answered. Having said that. you need to give up some more information. When you say "serious about mountain biking" are you talking XC? DH? DJ? All three? Basically a XC guy with some DH thrown in, or are you more of a "go big or go home" kind of guy?

    I'm not trying to be a jacka**, I'm just trying to let you know that you need to give up some more information before someone can give you a knowledgeable answer.

    Be prepared for lots of different answers, and have fun choosing!

  100. #100
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    such a shame. they were a staple in the mtb component world. too bad bad management destroyed them

  101. #101
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    As of Wednesday 3/30/2011 carbon X and FTM will be offered at 999. This is being done in an effort by ownership to raise the capital needed to buy Race Face.

    http://www.facebook.com/TitusCycles#!/TitusCycles?sk=wall

  102. #102
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    ^^ Very cool, I reposted a few places. Hopefully Titus can make a solid bid and could handle running a different type of company.

    On a side note, I got myself some atlas FR bars and expect them to serve me well for years.

  103. #103
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    Great News!

    The Titus brand was just bought up earlier this year by On-One/Planet X. As far as I know all their components are made overseas but my experience with them has always been top notch.

    Maybe now I can take down the RF Next cranks I put up on eBay knowing that a good company may be taking over the brand now.

  104. #104
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    http://nsmb.com/4287-race-faces-demise/

    Race Face's Demise

    Many people now know the broad strokes of the demise of Race Face; as of March 12th, 2011 Race Face Components Inc. and Race Face Holdings were officially in receivership. Employees were given little notice about what was happening and the business stopped operating immediately. Nothing can happen with the company for 45 days from that date – until April 26th by my calculations - so most staff will likely have found other employment, making it virtually impossible for the company to be sold as a going concern. This means Race Face's remaining assets, including the name, will be broken up and sold to the highest bidder. There’s likely nothing that can be done at this point to avoid that outcome. It’s a sad end for a company whose products had become synonymous with innovation, quality and durability. All the riders we at nsmb.com have talked to have a favourite Race Face product they can remember and all are sad to see the company’s first act come to a close.

    For those of us on the outside looking in, the mystery is how it could have come to this. Reports from inside the company toward the end indicated that things were in some respects going better than ever. Race Face’s component, soft good and armour sales through Canadian outdoor goods retailer Mountain Equipment Co-op were a success, new products were being well received and with solid orders on the books, it looked like 2011 was going to be a banner year – maybe even a record for revenue. These are not the sorts of things you generally hear about a company that has been forced into receivership.

    After Stuart Kernaghan’s article was published on March 15th, nsmb.com was contacted by a former Race Face employee who felt the story of the company’s demise should be told. Through that first contact, I spoke to several other former Race Face staffers and their description of the factors that lead to the company's demise were consistent. Each one of them shared the view that the story should get out to the public.

    Sources advised me that problems began when Race Face secured a $2.5 million operating loan eight to 10 years ago. They allege this loan was secured against, and obtained on the strength of, inventory that was either overvalued or completely worthless. “10 year old headset instruction sheets” was an example of stock used as collateral given by one former staffer. The employees I spoke to allege they were aware of the stock overvaluation and some had known about this for some time.

    In a speech delivered to employees on March 10th, 2011, Race Face CEO Craig Pollack called the stock overvaluation a ‘systemic error’ that was recently discovered. He also stated that he voluntarily drew the bank’s attention to this error. I spoke to Race Face’s external accountant, who stated that the overvaluation was uncovered by Robert Shapiro – the internal accountant – who then took it to the external accountant. The external accountant told me that once Craig Pollack was informed of this situation, he was the one who drew the bank’s attention to it almost immediately. He went on to say that Pollack assumed the bank – Canadian-based ScotiaBank – would work with the company to remedy the situation.

    According to former employees, when Race Face began a distribution arm in Taiwan, another portion of inventory used to secure the loan was sent overseas. This was also apparently a breach of covenant for the original loan agreement. Another breach allegedly occurred when the deadline for placing an aluminum order was missed and the company was unable to produce or fill orders for Atlas FR Cranks – one of the company’s biggest product lines – for four months. Because of this, sales targets weren’t met and this situation contributed to the bank’s increasing scrutiny of the company.

    According to these same employees that nsmb.com spoke with, Race Face’s ability to pay creditors was becomingly increasingly compromised in recent months. Towels disappeared from the bathroom because the laundry service wasn’t paid and creditors like local frame builder Chris Dekerf (who is owed $7,000) got nowhere with their inquiries. Race Face employees were not alerted to the seriousness of the situation and were told to continue putting business expenses – including airfares to Taiwan and hotel rooms to the tune of thousands of dollars – on their personal credit cards. It appears now that employees will not be reimbursed for these expenses – up to $20,000 for some former staffers. Some employees had hardly taken a vacation day in 10 years and they will receive no compensation for that time.

    One former RF staffer told me that toward the end employees traveling abroad were doing so without travel or medical insurance because the premium cheques to cover these policies were bouncing.

    Unlike employees in Canada, who were informed in person by Craig Pollack of the pending receivership, Race Face’s Taiwanese division and the employees there, according to several sources both here and in Taiwan, to this day haven’t been informed about the receivership or that their jobs would be ending. Apparently, some of these employees had been with the company for 15 years.

    When a foreign company comes to do business in Taiwan, a Taiwanese citizen is required to vouch for the company by putting his or her chop (an engraved stamp with the person’s Chinese name) on official documents. This essentially means that this person can be held liable for losses incurred by the company.

    The employee whose Chop was provided for Race Face - who was diagnosed with cancer not long ago and has been receiving chemotherapy treatments - may be on the hook for as much as half a million dollars of Race Face debts incurred in Taiwan.

    I was told that once the bank became aware of this situation it was still willing to come to some sort of arrangement to save the company – realizing it would be worth more if it could be sold as a going concern rather than one that had ceased to operate. Sources informed me that one of the bank’s proposals involved Pollack and two of his partners partially repaying the original operating loan, as well as Pollack taking a substantial pay cut.

    One Race Face source alleged that some time ago, Craig Pollack made himself a contractor rather than an employee of the company so his salary no longer had to be approved by the board of directors. Instead, Pollack paid himself and at least two of his family members consulting fees.

    Another partner was alleged, by a Race Face source, to be collecting a consulting fee of $6,700 a month. None of the employees nsmb.com spoke to could provide any information about what services this partner provided to the business in return for the consulting fee.

    More than one former Race Face employee nsmb.com spoke to alleged that the fees collected by Pollack often added up to between $30,000 and $40,000 a month – or even more when cash flow was good - and that Pollack’s total yearly compensation was in the neighbourhood of $400,000.

    More than one source has alleged that Pollack rejected a proposal from the bank to keep the company operating that would have seen his compensation set at $150,000 a year - or $12,500 a month. He was said to have responded to this proposal by saying, “Frankly, it’s not worth it for me to come to work for that little.”

    Despite all these allegations, the Race Face sources I spoke with reported that they maintained their loyalty to the company to the end and felt a palpable sense of loss at the company’s demise. One said the drive in to work on the final day “like driving to a funeral.”

    Several sources report that Craig Pollack plans to start a new business shortly. Apparently, this planned venture will again focus on the bike industry but will start with protective gear as their core product line.

    nsmb.com was in contact with Craig Pollack regarding every detail of this article and he declined to comment.

  105. #105
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    Wow, your boss is never as cool as you think.

  106. #106
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    If even half of that is true I can't see Mr Pollack ever getting business within the bike industry ever again, no matter how many new ventures he starts. I can't see anyone lending him money either.

    Still a crying shame.

  107. #107
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    The numbers being thrown about really aren't fishy at all if they're for legit employees. 6700/month isn't a lot, thats $42/hr or 87k/yr GROSS. I wouldn't roll out of bed for that on a long term contract let alone short. It is common practice in corporations to bring in 1099 (US tax term, there is probably a canadian equiv) employees in for short term projects or even long term employment and they ALWAYS bill out higher than the equivalent W2 position because that person has 0 stability, pays ALL the taxes, healthcare, etc...

    400k/yr also isn't excessive for a CEO of a small company. Real corporate CEOs pull millions in salary and stock options.

    This isn't me defending Pollack. Even though the salaries COULD be above board what isn't known is if they were. Allegations are just that. Where were the compliance audits? Where was the accounting department? I mean, this is a small company and I'm sure payroll and AR aren't huge departments.

    Hopefully real facts vs. rumors come out. I'm pretty intrigued by this whole case because its a company that was generally perceived as doing well.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    The numbers being thrown about really aren't fishy at all if they're for legit employees. 6700/month isn't a lot, thats $42/hr or 87k/yr GROSS. I wouldn't roll out of bed for that on a long term contract let alone short.
    LOL..."Big Slacker"
    It's sounds to me like criminal fraud.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble
    LOL..."Big Slacker"
    It's sounds to me like criminal fraud.
    parts of it, yes, but definitely not the salaries mentioned

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    hopefully he really doesnt bring Roach clothing back and massacre that brand

  111. #111
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    such a shame, seems you can always trace this stuff back to bean counting....

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_M2R
    such a shame, seems you can always trace this stuff back to fraudulent bean counting....
    Edited for clarity.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    Edited for clarity.
    Much better. I was wondering what the assembly line had to do with it. If this Pollack does look to remain in the bike industry would a boycott be in order? On the one hand it'd boycott his venture, unfortunately on the other hand it'd boycott the industry employees.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  114. #114
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    Which part, the salaries or the race face thing specifically? If you think the salaries I don't know what to tell you. They're not shockingly high in any way. At the end of the article it mentions Pollack rejecting an offer for a 150k salary. No ****, thats a very low wage for a CEO, almost comically so.

    If you mean the article makes it sound like Pollack was cooking the books then yes it does. But you have to separate fact from an anonymous employee saying "this person made this, this person did that." and the actual checks cut, debts defaulted on, etc... Like I said, hopefully some real information will come out.

    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble
    LOL..."Big Slacker"
    It's sounds to me like criminal fraud.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    At the end of the article it mentions Pollack rejecting an offer for a 150k salary. No ****, thats a very low wage for a CEO, almost comically so.

    .
    $150k is low when you were paying yourself $30-40k a month .
    what is comical is getting paid only $150k to help save your company and turning it down. stay classy Pollack

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    If you think the salaries I don't know what to tell you. They're not shockingly high in any way. At the end of the article it mentions Pollack rejecting an offer for a 150k salary. No ****, thats a very low wage for a CEO, almost comically so.
    Before you get too carried away, let's keep in mind the annual sales of the co. and the average profit margin in the bike industry. This ain't exactly Microsoft we're talking about.

    --JP

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadatbirth
    $150k is low when you were paying yourself $30-40k a month .
    what is comical is getting paid only $150k to help save your company and turning it down. stay classy Pollack
    So you'd take a 70% pay cut at your current job, retain full responsibility for your results even though you're gonna lose a good deal of control and be under constant scrutiny you'd be all in right?

  118. #118
    Int'l Sales - PIVOT
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    So you'd take a 70% pay cut at your current job, retain full responsibility for your results even though you're gonna lose a good deal of control and be under constant scrutiny you'd be all in right?
    *IF* my salary was seriously inflated to begin with due to fraudulent statements I made to the bank, and if the other option was shutting down my business and putting 50+ people out of work, then yes. Yes I would.

  119. #119
    Pivoteer
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    Quote Originally Posted by John P.
    *IF* my salary was seriously inflated to begin with due to fraudulent statements I made to the bank, and if the other option was shutting down my business and putting 50+ people out of work, then yes. Yes I would.
    Very true. Being an owner myself, I am the last to be paid. I have gone most of last year and most of this year with out any compensation at all. Why would I do this? I have 30 employees counting on their paycheck, and at some point, this economy is going to change and I will be fairly compensated. I could have paid myself and blown off my creditors, but once that hole is dug, it is impossible to get out.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  120. #120
    North Van/Whistler
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    Quote Originally Posted by John P.
    *IF* my salary was seriously inflated to begin with due to fraudulent statements I made to the bank, and if the other option was shutting down my business and putting 50+ people out of work, then yes. Yes I would.
    Not to mention if I had personally put my balls on my line and personally guaranteed that 2.5 Million to the primary lenders - as CP did.

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    So you'd take a 70% pay cut at your current job, retain full responsibility for your results even though you're gonna lose a good deal of control and be under constant scrutiny you'd be all in right?
    when youve been screwing over the company and paying yourself a ludicrous amount of money as a "contractor" and also paying family members, id say taking a 70% pay decrease is MORE than fair....especially when that means saving 50 other people's jobs.
    it would also probably be a good thing for him to lose power in the company if he took the pay hit, since he is the one who probably got them into this mess

  122. #122
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    This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're making the assumption that he was screwing over the company and that his pay was ludicrous based on an internet article. One or both of those might be true or not.

    If there was systematic intentional defrauding of the company and lenders, why would the bank make an offer for Pollack to stay on? Because they knew he wouldn't take it and would resign without a fight? Smells fishy, right?

    Or we could just burn the guy at the stake.

    Quote Originally Posted by deadatbirth
    when youve been screwing over the company and paying yourself a ludicrous amount of money as a "contractor" and also paying family members, id say taking a 70% pay decrease is MORE than fair....especially when that means saving 50 other people's jobs.
    it would also probably be a good thing for him to lose power in the company if he took the pay hit, since he is the one who probably got them into this mess

  123. #123
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    Also speaking as an owner of a company, $150K is reasonable considering the fact that you are in violation of the loan covenants and in substantial financial jeopardy. It is better than nothing. If you are truly committed to making your company succeed you take the lumps in the tough times and reap the rewards when you win. As Tiss'er said, the owner is the last to get paid. (but can get paid the most by far in good times).

    Don't get too caught up on the consultant status. There may be tax or other reasons for that classification. It can be tricky how owners get paid in some corporate structures. You want to pool money out with the best favorable tax consequences. It does sound like there could have been a total failure in the management structure of the company including the board if the President was allowed to structure his pay in a manner that did not need board approval. Hard to tell with out knowing the actual ownership of Race Face.

    A definite loss for the bike industry but an interesting case none the less.

  124. #124
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    Spacer kit anyone?

    So when Race Face went under I grabbed a SIXC crank real quick off ebay - because they are everything I want in a crank set. When I got the set, they were missing the spindle spacers (elastomer and two black washers). Does anyone here have any of these lying around on an old set of cranks or know of any new ones? I have scoured bike shops with no luck. If you do have any I would be glad to pay you for them. I attached a picture, just in case. PM me if you have any info.

    Please help me be able to ride my RF cranks!


  125. #125
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    abbike18 -->

    Here you go: ChainreactionCycles - RF spacers

    OR found some from BikesOnline
    Last edited by miqu; 04-06-2011 at 11:57 PM.

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